>> rose: welcome to the program. we continue our coverage of the crises in ukraine with former secretary of state henri henry s kissinger. >> i tried my utmost to prevent when i was working from talking on the phone from the middle of the pledges with the head of state of another country even more adversarial country because to become president of any country you must have a highly developed ego. when you put egos into confrontation with each other, and if there's no agreement, to

whom can you appeal. i think really as a treadmill rule as diplomacy, heads of government should not encounter each other unless they have defined ahead of time what the parameters are. unless it's just a general philosophical meeting. >> rose: we conclude this meeting with james patterson. he holds the guinness world record on the "new york times" for best seller lists. >> as we known them will never be the same. it's all changing, the publishers, it's changing. publishers are being threatened. american literature. i mean, we need publishers right now. we need good publishers, we need good editors or they're not going to find the next one, they're not going to filed the next to kill a mockingbird we need that. and i want to try to help make

that transition to wherever we're going a smooth and healthy one and sane one. >> rose: henry kissinger and james patterson, next.

captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: this evening we continue ongoing coverage of the crises in ukraine. today many of the world's top diplomats gathered in paris. the official reason was insteblity iinestablishity in lt the focus was on ukraine. secretary carr kerry engaged ina conversation. >> they can chose to de-escalate this situation and we are committed to working with russia. together with our friends and allies in an effort to provide a way for this entire situation to find the road to deescalation. the united states is ready to work with all parties to make

that happen and to make it happen as soon as possible. we renew our call for russia to speak directly to the government of ukraine to send troops back to their bases and to welcome international observers and human rights monitors. and we've seen today with what happens with special envoy just how important it is to ensure the safety of those monitors and those observers. >> rose: also today defense secretary chuck hagel told the senate arms services committee that he had canceled military exercise with russia and increased cooperation with nato allies. the european union offered the new government in ukraine $15 billion in aid over the next two years. joining me now dr. henry kissinger, former secretary of state and national security advisor to president nixon. welcome. how many hours do you think you have spent with validate mere sr

putin. >> i would say 30 hours. maybe more. >> rose: to read your books is to know that you look at individuals and how they understand power and the forces that have shaped them. tell me about vladimir putin. >> first of all let me say, i agree with what i just heard as secretary kerry said. and so i think the last, latest move for putin is one that goes beyond accepted norms. but what do i think about what is my impression of putin? he is a man who believes that this indicates that the soviet union was sort of a catastrophe for russia.

and he thinks, he wants to restore russia to a traditional position, which means a great power. on the other hand, in my estimation, and that's nothing he said but that's what i interpret, he realizes that this is a different world situation than the one studies in history books. russia is no longer very strong. it's no longer in a position to threaten all of its major neighboring countries. and so he is conducting a policy in which he is both assertive and defensive at the same time. and that's partly produced the current situation. >> rose: he moved into crimea but then he stopped. >> i don't think he intends to,

in fact they have said he doesn't intend to. the basic problem, there are a number of fundamental problems here. first problem is that no russian i've ever met finds it easy or even possible to continue ukraine as a totally separate country. it was part of russia for 300 years. the history of the ukraine and russia has been for several hundred years before that. so the evolution of ukraine is a matter that moves all ruksz, -- russians,. even people from the communist system with a view that ukraine belongs to russia. >> rose: belongs to russia or within russia's sphere of influence. >> well in the heart they think

it should be part of the same country but at a minimum, they wanted to be in the russian sphere of influence. so i also believe that it would be desirable for ukraine to be in europe so that i can make my own nuclear. i was not in favor and still am not in favor of ukraine joining nato. what is the outcome that one should think of. one cannot built ukraine into an east/west struggle without dividing their country between the eastern half and its western half. and without creating a series of confrontation of situation. so the ideal outcome would be to look at ukraine as a bridge with east and west rather than whom

does ukraine belong to. it started because ukraine applied for associate membership in the european union. and the european union actually brought matters to a head by its treatment of this application and by getting it mixed up with internal ukraine and domestic politics. so then -- >> rose: let me just stop you for a second. at that time was yanukovych in favor of the relationship with europe. >> yanukovych was in favor of the relationship with europe. i met him twice in 2012, once in 2013. first time when i was in kiev to watch a football game and 2013.

in both of those occasions he sought me out to urge me to use my influence not so much in the united states but in germany to suspend the veto that the europeans were putting, some europeans were putting on the membership because he had the opposition leader had been sentenced probably unjustly for corrupt practices and so the europeans or some europeans made an issue early barragement, are the precondition for spree into europe -- entry into europe. i think they had a cause but they should have pressured for that after ukraine was in. so in that space, yanukovych

must have formed the idea that if the condition, he had to let the opponent go. and secondly it would be tied to an imf agreement that would produce extreme austerity in ukraine, that he would then try to see whether he could get russian help. and one has to remember one other aspect of the situation. ukraine, it's really too parts. the eastern part is russians speaking. the western part is catholic and ukrainian and the western part really belongs to p poland until 1939. so this is not a long history of a unified country. >> rose: and kiev. >> and kiev is in the middle.

and so this feud inside ukraine, if you say yanukovych against -- that's the eastern part which is yanukovych against the western part which i is tymoshenko. i think ukraine should remain united. it should be in europe. i think it should have been handled with more foresight. >> rose: but you've got to inject vladimir putin into it before what happened and before yanukovych left. he had persuaded yanukovych with money and oil prices, energy prices. >> absolutely. he then saw a great strategic opportunity, not just to arrest ukraine going into europe for russia. and i would think for most

russians. ukraine in europe goes against the history and who they are. so it would be a preference of any government to keep ukraine from throwing in its future with the west. >> bruce: so then they overthrew yanukovych and he fled to russia. >> then in the previous weeks i think putin undoubtedly interprets the demonstrations that took place in kiev which started when yanukovych was moving as instigated by the west and supported by the west. >> rose: no doubt he believes that. >> i have no question he believes that. >> rose: that somehow we were behind the west and europe, u.s.

and europe. >> i have no question he believes that. and i think he probably believes that having the high point in connection with the olympics was a deliberate attempt to humiliate him. >> rose: after the success of the olympics? >> the olympic paralyzed him. he couldn't participate in the crises. so he probably overreacted. >> rose: if he righted the u.s. and europe participated in that. >> no, i don't think. participated yes. i think he is right. i think instigated no. >> rose: gave support to them. >> support and showing great sympathy and having fairly high

officials actually join the demonstrators. >> rose: was it as vladmir putin said an unconstitutional coup? >> strictly technically speaking, yanukovych was not removed by the procedures foreseen in the country. >> rose: and he had been democratically elected. >> he had been democratically elected and he was overthrown by demonstrators from the other end, he had killed nearly a hundred people. >> rose: protesters. >> protesters. >> rose: tell me about the crimea, how it is the way it is. >> the crimea, well, historically the crimea was conquered by the russians in the 18th century. >> rose: the ottoman empire.

>> the ottoman empire. the majority of its population, about 60% of russians and there used to be a very excitable tartar minority there. >> rose: what are tartars. >> they are the recommend months o --remnants of the mongolian invasion of russia in the 13th and 14th century. and they wandered into the crimea and established themselves there. and probably had some kind of kingdom there for a while. >> rose: people in crimea speak russian. >> yes. but the value vast majority thek russian. crimea has never been part of ukraine. it was given to ukraine by khrushchev i in 1954 as part ofn

agreement made between russia and -- and khrushchev was a ukrainian. at that time of course each of the regions of russia had no autonomy but symbolically to impress the people of ukraine. and also maybe perhaps to put more russians in there to preinvestment thprevent the ukrn consolidation. but there's no historic connection between crimea and ukraine. that doesn't change the fact that it is an attack. >> rose: i once was told that khrushchev gave crimea to the ukraineians because he was drunk at that time. all right. so anyway we have russian troops

there. putin and lavrov deny there are russian troops but everybody believes they are russian troops. >> that's not a bad sign. >> rose: that they deny it. >> on the one hand. on the other happened it makes i -- handit makes it more easy o a solution. >> rose: this is where we really want -- >> so he does not have to give an order to restore, they can just disappear. >> rose: we shouldn't be upset about the fact he denies it because it gives them a way to say get the troops out of there. >> i think in the last two days as an indication that they are trying to move for a way out.

because they've stopped the exercises on the border. >> rose: right. >> they have said that they have no territorial demands. >> rose: but they had not, they have not ruled out military force. >> no. >> rose: in the statement putin has said he should be -- he has not ruled out military force. >> because to do nothing, again, i think what he did is incompatible with international norms. so i am not justifying his action. but from the point of view of moscow, to see ukraine slip into a radically prowestern position, and after russia had offered a kind of economic relationship,

that's a hard pill to swallow. >> rose: correct me if i'm wrong. i hear you saying that you think the russians know they made a mistake, they went too far and they're looking for a way out. >> i think the russians felt an absolute necessity to show that they are a factor to be taken into account in ukraine. that you can't settle this. most of these overwhelming majority of the demonstrators one is told come from the western part of the ukraine who do not want to be under russian empire. >> rose: and who were opposing yanukovych from the beginning this time and previously. >> and who were opposed to him. and many of whom are catholic. so to see ukraine slip totally into this, into government by that point of view would be

intended by many russians. maybe a majority of russians. so i think he at a minimum wanted to show we are somebody, we have to be taken very seriously. and you can't just at the borders of russia 400 miles from moscow, establish any government assuming that he thinks. and so exercise was started. so that's just more information. i think that it's possible, i think it's likely that the we are moving towards a possible solution. >> rose: and what would it look like. >> in my view ukraine is free to join any political association it wishes. including the european union.

ukraine does not make, does not join nato. ukraine moves towards a solution of its internal problems in some way that does not always pit the west against the east and whoever is trying to dominate the other. and ukraine internationally takes a position very similar. independent, hugely independent, but careful to avoid an inherit hostile position to russia. i would say the finished model. and the crimea which is already technically autonomous, to

recognize one ukrainian sovereignty. >> rose: who recognizes ukrainian sovereignty. >> whatever the agreement is. >> rose: okay. >> that would include russia. ukraine in turn reinforces the autonomy that already and the russian naval base in crimea which is now under 30 year lease and which they'll never give up, that this be regularized in some ways. it's their own way. this is in my mood the outline of an agreement. >> rose: and you think the outline is doable and acceptable in the end with some variations

by all the parties. the ukraine and government today free russians and -- >> will always be there. and it's no accident that the history has been so intertwined. the russian mind -- in 1709 when charles the 12th tried to occupy russia, it was following ukraine. so russia will always be there. and we saw a wide policy in my opinion, a i id wide unio ukraig to the language almost that the russian party and the russian party, that there be some way of organizing the internal

structure of ye ukraine that its more conciliatory. that's going to be very hard. but i think -- >> rose: what parts hard. >> well the part -- >> rose: to get the ukrainian government. >> with tymoshenko, there's really not that much difference. it means that one is russian and one is western. >> rose: tymoshenko. >> tymoshenko. if you look at the american road there, in my opinion we have made the mistake getting ourselves involved in one side with every one of these crises. and then as soon as the crises is over, the competitive ukrainian conflicts take over.

in 2004, the orange revolution, we got totally behind the candidate and have since disappeared from the scene. tymoshenko was supposed to be our person but now there were huge payoffs. so i think an effort should be made to -- >> rose: let me -- all of us, russia, west should encourage a foreign policy in the ukraine that is not and doesn't make ukraine part of either. >> rose: that will be acceptable to the russians you believe. >> i think. what the russians prefer is ukraine to be part of russia. >> rose: right. >> so it's its second best choice for ukraine. and i think putin will suffer a

considerable lot of prestige no matter how other than if it ends with the ukraine joining russia which is now out of the question. >> rose: and the russian troops will stay in crimea. >> they will stay i in so sovot. and it will be organne organizen autonomous entity under the technical sovereignty of ukraine. but if you run it by democratic procedures since the russians have over 60% of the population, it should produce an outcome that everybody can live with. >> rose: all right, a couple things. this is very exciting for me. >> this is not the mood at the moment.

everything one reads it's confrontation but it's got to have an end. >> rose: what's interesting what you have said is it's not only the outline of the agreement but you believe that putin, this is not going to end well for putin unless he comes to some kind of agreement like this. >> and then it's not huge. >> rose: he's not as embarras as he would be. it was not going to end well for putin. >> it could be end as far as russia's concerned with being overthrown the agreement that had been made and they had made an agreement with the association disappeared again. >> rose: right. but you said that se the united states made a mistake by

supporting the forces led to the new ukrainian government. they should not have taken sides. >> the united states has a thing before that. it's always a popular expression and we don't look at what other forces are involved that -- we argued about that. it was natural for us to sympathize. and it was not -- >> rose: in tehran -- >> when it formed democratic. it was natural for us in kiev to sympathize with people who, but it was not inevitable that assistant secretary stayed with members of the embassy join in

this. and but could have imagined that one says to one self this will have an end sometime. and let's purge some conciliation on the part of the protesters. and ask ourselves where will this be a year from now. instead of letting it run its course. you can say the same about the russians with respect to yanukovych. so, i would think that in these kinds of situations, the united states should look at what happens afterwards. and see whether they can use their influence in these demonstrations to pr bring aboua post demonstration situationing

that is more permanent. it was natural for us to be supportive. i think what we should do if it were possible, and if we had the right communication for which we don't have, is to have a conversation with putin. >> rose: we talked fo talked r and 15 members o minutes on the. >> i'm out of it for a long time. >> rose: but you know history and you now the russians. >> i am my utmost to prevent the presidents for whom i was working from talking on the phone in the middle of a crises with the head of state of another country even more an adversarial country. because because to become

president of any country, you must have a highly developed ego. when you put two egos into confrontation with each other, and if there's no agreement, to whom can you appeal. i think it's really as a treadmill rule of diplomacy, heads of government should not encounter each other unless they have defined ahead of time what the parameters are. unless it's just a general philosophical meeting. so an hour 15 minutes, you ask yourself with interpreters, what is needed is that one discusses what is it we're trying to do here both of us. and what are the limits that either of us can accept.

as you pointed out, i've had many hours of conversations with putin. i have no personal relationship with him whatsoever. and what he wants to discuss with me at least is an understanding of the situation. and look at his position. this is not a super power. they have a lot of nuclear weapons. they don't have a huge, hugely effective army. they have a border with china, they have a border with the middle east. they have a declining manpower. >> rose: an aging population and an economy that's not in good shape. >> for all of these reasons, this is what i shoul should tak.

now it could be done by kerry also. but i don't think lavrov is a policy maker. lavrov is a policy executive. so one has to reach either putin or the head of the presidential administration even though they should talk. >> rose: somebody who has putin's ear and who is -- >> somebody that obama trusts. >> rose: who would that be in this government. >> i don't know. >> rose: you said it shouldn't be kerry so it should be someone else. >> it could be kerry. >> rose: it shouldn't be a foreign minister and secretary of the united states. >> the trouble with having it as a kerry lavrov, it's a protocol. lavrov is a superb policy

executive but he doesn't pretend. >> rose: he implements policy. >> policy, yes. but he has to make it. >> rose: you need somebody making policy to be talking to each other but it can't be the respective heads of state. >> one doesn't, the danger of having heads of state in dialogue with each other unprepared, it's when they misunderstand each other, there's no one you can appeal to rectify it. and also if they do it through an interpreter you don'tn't know what they understand. and you can't create the atmosphere. that would be my instinct. >> rose: let me go back to putin and his intentions because lots of people all quote the statement he made about the

worst moment in the history of the 20th century was when the soviet union collapsed. for him that was the worst moment in the 20th century. >> actually amusingly, maybe maybe not amusing. my relation with putin, you will ask why did i have so many meetings. >> rose: yes, why did you have so many meetings. >> i sat next to him when he was deputy mayor of st. petersburg. and i said to him he was not a huge, i said to him can you as an old kgb person, can you explain to me why gorbachev rejected negotiating about eastern europe and then gave it up for nothing six months later. and he considered that a hugely significant remark and he's written about it two or three

times. as a very significant remark. so his view is that russia has indicated because of the incompetence of its leadership and that it gave up 300 years of its history. and right back to where they started as far as the west is concerned. so he wants to restore. >> rose: how does he carry that agenda because you said you didn't believe he wanted to take over ukraine or he realized he couldn't because the west reacted. >> what he wants is a eurasian block of the states of the former soviet union plus what else is available on the fringes of it. and then that would probably

take the option of playing with china and playing with europe. but anyway that would give him, give russia a place. >> rose: what do you make of this? many people have sat at this table and by remote said to me he has more leverage than we do at this moment. he's the neighbor, there's been an influence with ukraine, his army is there, there's a base and he just had the success in the olympics and it was a successful olympics. he is influential in terms of syria. we need him there. we need him with iran, so we really need to have a relationship with him so he has maybe a better hand than we do. >> this is driven in a very confrontational way, then he may dig in.

>> rose: dig? >> my estimate is if we treat him with respect and not another version of european dictators and not with the point of view of teaching him but from the point of view of testing limits to his actions, i think it will slide into the sort of agreement. and i have not had any conversation with any russian so i have no idea whether it does reflect any russian. >> rose: you've had no conversation with any russian whose come to you and said what are your ideas about the americans and what they are trying to do. >> no. i've had no conversation. and among the list of things that i mentioned for them to agree that ukraine is free to

join anything any grouping and for them to agree. >> rose: it's a real concession. >> that would be, yes. and for them to recognize crimea as part of ukraine even if it gets limited by some autonomy. >> okay. so there's a question. why do you believe putin will accept this? >> because my instinct is that he is governing a country that in its history has identified the importance of its government by its ability to look at defending the country. and its [indiscernible]. secondly he knows what the real relationship is. and therefore if this thing turns into a real confrontation,

projected over a number of years, they will be with syria and even with iran but he doesn't want to be left alone with the middle east and because that's from that area, so i think and again what kerry said today seems to me the right way to talk. i think if we cut down on history lessons and it would help. >> rose: cut down on history lessons. >> saying russians have been conducting themselves like 19th century. >> rose: thank you. pleasure to see you. our best to nancy.

>> rose: we want to talk about books this evening. if you bought a suspense thriller in the last year, there is a one in five chance it was written by james patterson. he's the author of more than 100 works of fiction. he holds the guinness world record for the most titles on the "new york times" best seller list. all tolled, his books have told more than 295 million copies. he's an advocate for children's literacy programs and he's now giving away $1 to independent book stores across the country. i am pleased to have james patterson back at this table. so this is books under your name. one, two, three, four, five, six, seven. how do you do this. >> i love to tell stories. and what i will do, the coloring books i think are the ones people are curious about. i will write a 70, 80 page outline which basically lays out

the book and will basically work with somebody. i want them to contribute to the outline because i want them invested in the book. and then unlike a publisher, i like to get work every two or three weeks. and i'll just cape goin keep god it we're off the track somehow, something happened, something didn't go right. and i love, i just love to tell stories. somebody said you're lucky if you find something you like to do and it's a miracle if somebody will pay you to do it. that's my thing. >> rose: does it reduce any of the pleasure for you that you're having someone else take your outline and make it into an end product. the pleasure of the joy of writing. >> it doesn't. because i love to tell a story. there's no way i could ever have this kind of out put if i was working by myself. >> rose: of course not. >> so the idea of getting this many stories created. and obviously if i don't like the end product, it's not going out there.

owso i'll just stop. in the case of these books but i've written three or four or five or six drafts after i got the directive from the cowriter. i just love getting stories out there into the world. >> rose: you're not doing this, at your stage with 295 million copies you have made a ton of money. >> yes, the money has been just fine. >> rose: you're not doing it for money. >> i'm not doing it for money. >> rose: what are you doing it for. >> i just get a real kick and i think most people do out of doing something as well as you can do it. and this is as good as i can do it. i think with the kids books in particular which i'm not as well-known for but i think they're actually my best books. i think that's my sweet spot. they're funny. i'm funnier than people would expect. unfortunately with the thrillers, you can't, and i think part of it is you grow up and where i grew up and we both grew up in small towns.

in terms of where my patience came from, my father grew up in a poor house. he lived with his mother which was a char woman. she cleaned the bathrooms. and i think it's taken to this point from my confidence to keep growing in terms over what i'm capable of doing. what can i do. and it's just the confidence. i can do that, i can do thrillers. okay. i can do romans. -- romance. i can do kids books. i can be responsible for doing something good in the country in terms of some of the efforts, some of the things i'm doing, scholarship and the indy. >> rose: let's talk about that. you're giving away a million dollars. >> or more. >> rose: or more. let's start there. the idea is you stay to them, you select the best responses. tell me how you spend $50,000. >> one of the book stores that

we just gave money to, i just gave money to said this is great for our store but what's even better from this person's point of view and my point of view is you're shining a light on this situation right now. we're in this country because of the e book phenomenon and the internet whatever. publishing is going through some big changes now which is fine the world changes. but books where it says we've known them will never be the same. libraries, it's all changing. publishers it's changing. publishers are being threatened. american literature. i mean we need publishers right now. we need good publishers and we need good editors or they're not going to find the next one, they're not going to find the next to kill a mockingbird. so we need that and i want to try to help to make that transition to wherever we're going, a smooth and healthy one and sane one. >> rose: and your small town project is what? >> i'm doing, which is terrific

because it's a movie, a documentary movie. and it started because my wife and i do a lot of -- palm beach is actually -- and we support a lot of the middle schools in palm beach county. what we did is we had teachers from three to six helping kids read and then poun pumped 800 to a,000 books. he started going out to the hokey which is the far western part of palm beach country, 40% unemployment. a lot of violence unfortunately. but i met the people, i met these kids, they're terrific and just caught in this mess. there's 40% unemployment in a town bad things are going to happen. you have a lot of young males running around, they're very frustrated. and i wanted to just draw attention to these in the town i grew up in newberg which is a little bit more of a mixed bag

but there's a lot of problems there. >> rose: you want to draw attention to them or do something about their plight. >> i want to one, humanize or get people to understand that there are human beings there. they are very likeable, loveable. you watch, when they watch this film they're going to go i like the people there and i feel for them. next week i'm going up to interview a kid in person about a year and-a-half ago we shot a store keeper never been in trouble before. hit the guy in the shoulder, the bullet bounced and killed the story owner. he's life without parole. put away when he's 18 years old. and he's never been interviewed before. i wrote him a couple letters and finally this letter came. you could imagine this is a reporter. and here's a letter from the prison which is the way ifl it s to operate. and he goes how are you doing

mr. patterson is the further like of his letter. he said come up. i talked to my dad about it. this kid, and this is just so sad and i've seen the tape. his father came in to the jail and he got the confession there the son. they knew the son had done it but the kid had not confessed. >> rose: the father came in and. >> he confessed to his father and it's just heart breaking. the father is very nice man the father and grandmother who i've spoken to. and the father said i'm never going to see you again outside of prison and he was heart broken, terrible thing. but that's what happened. that's the kind of thing that can happen in this town. >> rose: we have an excerpt from your documentary. here it is, roll tape. >> there's a crack house about as bad as it gets. i'm glad you're not here because you wouldn't appreciate the smell. >> a lot of drugs done here. a lot of damage done to this especially to the kids in this

town. thithis does not come from the wizard of oz. >> this all reminds me of the bad parts of my home town newberg. what the hell happened. >> what happened. we just stopped paying attention. we, you know, so much in this country is where the money is. we have the problem with the banks, the money is there, the money pours in to solve the problem. we have problem with automobiles, the money is there. we picked automobile problem, we have not fixed detroit and people aren't willing or governments aren't willing to deal. i was very lucky a couple weeks ago, i spent an hour and-a-half in a room with my wife with bill clinton. and one of the things we talked about, we talked about this, the whole thing with these towns. and we talked about detroit. and he said -- >> rose: he's a good listener. >> he's a good listener and

obviously he's very bright. and he said if it was up to him, he would try to get detroit to institute home study. he looked block after block after block after block empty. >> rose: get in there, give them the land. >> there's the kind of thinking. and then how do you get that done in a town that kind of thing. big thinking imagine the thinking and things can get done. >> rose: how do you choose the people who you're going to write the books with? >> well, maxine i knew from advertising. she had written a couple novels. we did the woman clubs together and then confessions. she's a terrific person. i thought i could work with her. when i was advertising i could hire only one kind of person talented and nice to be around, the end. it's the same thing. >> rose: talented and nice to be around, that's it. >> totally. >> rose: talented is not enough. >> it can be. it depends what you're doing. some people believe, like in

some parts of silicon valley they're talented and they just live with it. i don't like to do that. there's nobody who i work with that i don't enjoy. >> rose: what is your core competence. >> i think i'm a very good storyteller. >> rose: that's what i thought you'd say. yes. but hospital grea how many greae there. >> i think the other piece of it is right brain left brain. >> rose: really. how does that work with you. >> to be able to have a lot of ideas and then to be able to sit back and go that one that one not those two. and i think a lot of people don't have both sides. you run into them all the time and they run into any creative business. you have certain pea that are -- certain people that are very imaginity anmajorrive and theyie that don't come up with good

ideas. i have both. >> rose: what have you failed at. >> what have i failed at? i don't think about failing really. i don't look back a lot, i just kind of keep charging forward. i'm sort of the anti-congress. like with this documentary film we're just doing it. i hope it's going to be terrific. i think it will be. i think it's going to be very emotional. i don't think it's going to work. i think, i have confidence i can put together a documentary story. >> rose: it looks like you're a good storyteller there in that part. >> yes. i think it's going to be a good film. >> rose: you love golf. >> no, i hate golf. >> rose: but you play, i mean you can. >> i do well. do you know what i do and this is another morning thing. i will go out and walk nine holes in the morning so i get a little bit of exercise. i stop the process of so i'll go out, play. at night it will take me an hour, hour 20 or minutes. frequently i walk with a caddy

sometimes. that's it. i will only do, you know i'm decent. i got to be about a nine or ten and i stayed there. that was it. >> rose: i would have taken a much bigger commitment. >> it takes somehow to learn. i watched the golf channel. >> rose: he this did an interview with you. >> yes. >> rose: he's coming to do one with me. should i be worried. >> no. he's very bright, he's very funny, he's very witty. you'll like him. >> rose: was palmer a good golfer. >> yes, very good. >> rose: so when you look ahead, the documentary project, the million dollar project for leebleslibraries, do you think l fix the publishing business. >> well it's not broken. that's one of the problems in the media, every publishing story they keep like it's broken. you know, it was an editorial in the "new york times," i think it was, about how we're sort of

taught to be critical thinkers and critical and that's supposed to show you're smarter if you're critical. and right now the heads i'm publishing, it's not broken. it's not living up to the potential. and it's in danger right now because we haven't established whatever would replace the publishing system that we have. >> rose: that's the point. you have innovation with the agency. >> there's not enough innovators for sure. >> rose: it's great to have you here.

. >> this is "nightly business report" with tyler math son and cisse -- brought to you in part by -- >> the street.com featuring stephanie link who shares her stock picks and market insights with action alerts plus. the multimillion-dollar portfolio she manages with jim cramer. you can lesch more at the street.com/nbr. winter blues. reports on the labor market raising concerns for would be job seekers. will friday's government employment report confirm the hiring slump, and is this just a blip or a long-term trend? >> exxonmobil disappoints investors with its oil and gas production outlook. will new projects re-energize the world's largest publicly traded energy company? and economic priorities. china sets up course for growth and structural ef