>> charlie: welcome to the program. we begin this evening with simon schama, his book is called "the story of the jews: finding the words." >> jewish history is thought of entirely pretty much as israel, palestine or the holocaust. >> charlie: right. israel and palestine makes people put their spurs and brass knuckles on, and the holocaust makes people come out if a sweat because they think they're treading on egg shells or the bones of those lying in auschwitz. so, either which, it's not something that non-jews can engage. with that's not the case here, i hope, i think. here is an opportunity to actually try and say here is a story, come on in. you're welcome to this. >> charlie: we continue this evening with timothy dolan, the archbishop of new york. >> what we really wanted this time was a man who had a good

track record of management, governance, administration and jorge mario bergoglio had run one of the largest and complex archdiocese in the world. we wanted a man with honest yand sincerity and a man who was a pro at presenting the timeless truths of the faith in kind of a sparkling new way. that's what we were looking for. that was the job description. we all thought, boy, that's a tall order. but i think, a year later, i think we said bingo. >> charlie: we conclude with ferran adria as one of the world's most renowned and innovative chefs. >> the hardest thing is to get up in the morning, look in the mirror and to be happy. you know... everybody wants this, of course. everybody looks for this. i have achieved this.

in 30 years, i get up in the morning, very early, and i work 16 hours doing what i love. i go to sleep and i'm happy. you ask the question why? because i have passion for what i am doing, because i like challenges that i always believe i'm not going to reach, but i fight to achieve them. in the end, that's what life is, the struggle to reach a challenge.

captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> charlie: simon schama is here. he is an historian, a professor at columbia university. his most recent project is a multimedia account of jewish history, including a pbs documentary series and two books. here's a look at the opening of the series.

>> this is a jail, and so is this. and this and this. and so am i. so what if anything do we have in common? not the color of our skin. not the languages we speak. the tunes we sing. the food we eat. not our opinions. we're a fiercely argumentative lot. not even the way we pray, assuming we do. what ties us together is a story, a story kept in our heads and hearts, a story of suffering and resilience, endurance,

creativity. it's the story that made me want to be an historian in the first place. i understood when i was quite small that there were two special things about the jews that we endured for over 3,000 years despite everything that had been thrown at us and that we had an extraordinarily dramatic story to tell and, somehow, these two things were connected that we told our story to survive. we will our story. >> the story of the jews, finding the words 1,000b.c. to 1492a.d. is this a story you were made to tell? >> ates story i couldn't -- it's a story i couldn't help but tell, actually. i was born in 1945, charlie, and when one came out of those bleak, austere, tweedy,

brown-suit years, there were two histories that had been pulverized, one was english history and the other is jewish history. they were down but not out for the count. my father, who was absolutely equally a passionate lover of british literature and history and a very passionate and loyal orthodox jew also thought somehow and churchill, they were connected, and there was something about owning a history that would sustain you when you were bombed, when you lost territory, when you lost land, when you were threatened with annihilation and even when physical annihilation took place, somehow if the words actually endures, and the jews invented the possibility of a story as a life belt, life, indeed, would go on? some ways, jewish history, if you're a words-smith -- >> charlie: well, you qualify. -- i suppose so -- it is the

ultimate history. you know, some cultures, would the greeks have been phenomenally grand and remembered if there wasn't greek mythology? there was a parthenon. would the jews have been remembered without their words? no, they would have disappeared. >> charlie: what's the most important moment in jewish history. >> some moments around 18b.c. in which your identity would not be around the king. you know, palaces and large chunks of territory, the promised land was an idea even as much as territory, were not the point. someone had the idea that the book itself would be a way to establish who you were. a hook that would do two

things -- it would lay down rules for living and it would give you a story and that's what remained. so some notional moment that we figure out there was a very clever scribe somewhere. >> is that akin to what it means to be american in the constitution? >> a lot of americans would love the analogy of that, but it's exactly so. and america is different. what makes it different in the 18th century from all other states is it's built around an idea, that's exactly right, around democracy and it's not built around a particular language -- you know, german -- it's not built around the usual markers of who you are. the idea is who you are. >> charlie: you say that the history, the story is once the particular and universal. >> yeah. well, those rules, the ten commandments and the 630 precepts are, in some sense, addressed to the children of

israel, to the jews who become their custodians -- you know, god told abraham in the version you will be essentially a light unto the nations, essentially these precepts also have universal application -- do not kill, do not steal, do not commit adultery, all the rest of it -- >> charlie: do you believe you're the chosen people? >> well, the question is you are -- to weed that out of the bible would be passionately perverse, really, and to say that -- o -- of course, it comeh a huge burden. you know the diamond, a man sits down next to a woman and she has the biggest rock in the world on her finger, and he says, excuse me, madam, and says, oh, it's the plotnik diamond, she says, yes, but it comes with a terrible burden. he says, what's the burden?

she says, mr. plotnik (laughter) >> so, in judaism, god is mr. plotnik and his relationship with the jews comes with a burden. >> charlie: here's what you say, the most intense version known to human history of adversities endured by other people as well of a cultural perennially resisting annihilation of making home and habitats, writing prose and portraits of life through a succession of uprootings and assaults. >> right. that is another reason -- and i didn't want to put that right at the beginning, which is why i told the true story of thinking about jewish history when office child on, but it turns out, in my view, that, apart from the slow death of the planet, the most important problem we have, cultures of opposing and different beliefs, attempting to share the same space without the obligation to exterminate each

other. when i was a kid, one thought that the kind of visceral religious ativism was sort of a thing of the past. that the horror of world war ii and the holocaust would make it all redundant and it would be about class or capitalism or whatever. that turns out to be -- you know, open the newspaper today, ukrainians, russians, shiites -- that turns out not to be peripheral but absolutely central to the way the human species behaves in the world today. now, the jews, we are a type of refugees and fugitives, the terrible pictures in syria. who would imagine at this moment in the 21st century, we are the era par excellence of the uprooted. so the jews are not the only uprooted but we've lived it most

extremely and relentlessly and somehow got through it. >> how did it shape? incredibly, predecessor, columbia maintained jewish history is a tearful history and that's not the whole story and that's a view i share. i equally want to say nor is it all about calamity and misery. i kept on collided with misery and wretchedness and tragedy, but what you can say and what is said, for example, in these, you know, spectacular illuminations in the bible and in prayer books which occur at a time of persecution in the 14th and 15th century, that when you have a sense that you have to be a suitcase-ready people, that you assume the worst, better be prepared for it and have the suitcase handy, when that happens you tend to taste life, you tend to bite on life harder and deeper and with more relish

than you might otherwise. >> charlie: because it might be taken away. >> absolutely. >> charlie: and that's where a homeland becomes so much more crucial, right? >> yes, well, the homeland issue actually is genuinely tragic because this one says, well, much more jewish history than you would imagine is about heroism of ordinary life. it's about families and weddings and jokes and all of the things that have been realized in america. nonetheless, it's also true to say that, in the particular circumstances from the late 19th century on in russia and then horrifically in central europe, you know, in the victim game, nobody is going to take our olympic gold away from us in that sense. i don't want us to be victims of bullies, but what happened to the jews, we were the most abandoned people. >> charlie: great book. it is extraordinary. he says that and it's right.

the united states all but closes the doors to the jews and the british do the same and pretty much everyone does the same except shanghai and the dominican republic and so on, so, at that point you say, well, the homeland is really our life raft and the competing instinct of inward-outward paranoia and life celebration are -- you know, that stirs the broth of what it means to be jewish. >> you once told me you were skeptical that you could write a history of the jews. >> i still am. you don't know that you've done it? >> i'm sure i haven't done it. am yulsamuel beckett, praise fas better. in television you have to make shatteringly brutal decisions about what stories you can tell in an hour and five hours. no, in there you will not find much of a history of the great chain of rabbinic thought.

>> charlie: did it start as a film project? >> i thought of it as the jonah instinct. not god, but the bbc is saying make this series. i can't, i can't, i don't want to do it. flee to tarshish immediately. >> charlie: you're the only person who could have done this. >> what i did think was, the bbc with its grand and courageous institution, sometimes like pbs, you know, doesn't want to run into a storm of trample. why would you cause it? i can't think of any more project more likely to cause trouble, and i was struck but be

gutsy necessary of wanting to do it. and there is a chasm of ignorance and misunderstanding aboutish history in europe. jewish history is thought of entirely pretty much as israel, palestine or the holocaust. >> charlie: right. and israel-palestine makes people put their spurs and brass knuckles on, and the holocaust makes people come out in a sweat because nay think they're treading on egg shells or the bones of those lying in auschwitz. so other way, it's not something that non-jews can engage with. that's not the case here, i hope and think. so i thought, well, here is an opportunity actually to try and say, here is a story, come on in, you're welcome to this. it's not as scary as you think. it has lots of celebration. there's lots of music. there's a lot of grief. there's a lot of color in this. come on in to this story and i will boast of it here, we have more than 3 million people watch the first episode.

>> wow. ell, in britain. we have a quart o quarter milli. >> charlie: 250,000. it's small and getting smaller. >> charlie: why the dates? 1000b.c. to 1492b.c.? >> well, it's a recent dig where the david and goliath showdown is set, very, very beautiful. that has been extraordinary because it has shown very clearly there is a fortified settlement on the hills of judea clearly part of a slightly largelargejudean state. it wasn't as cow down as was thought. there was something going on which now has found a document in the archeology, around the 11th century. a short way of saying it is this site which is beautiful and

which we walk around in one of the programs was full of olive pits. an olive pit, turns out, to the late century. 1492 is a traumatic upheaval, the expulsion of the jews from spain. you don't want to compare it to what happened in the 1930s. jewish calamities are calamities in their own particular way. but it's incredibly traumatic and it's sort of the end just as what happened in germany was the end of a prospering, flourishing, creative community, what happened in spain is an obituary for a genuine -- i'm not starry eyed about it, but it

was generally creative world in spain. that is simply destroyed, absolutely annihilated by the expulsion of the jews from spain in 1492. >> charlie: the guardian said this is a narrative that played to schama's strengths. he has genius to celebrate the myths he is simultaneously deconstructing. >> i'm fond of it, yes. >> charlie: fond of what? myths, really. the landscape of memory, which we talked about years ago, you have to enter the dark forest of myths, even though it feels very unjewish. jews are city folk, really, basically. so we have our own myths in judaism as well.

>> charlie: tell me what this is? >> this is a wall painting. >> charlie: 13th century b.c. >> yes, from a place in syria, a place we could not get to film because we were inconvenience bid the civil war, with bitter irani. i actually wanted -- with bitter irony. i actually wanted to go. what you're looking at is baby moses as a new grandpa and he's being held by sarah's daughter in kind of a wet t-shirt, basically -- actually, it's quite naughty -- and behind miriam and baby moses' mother and sister and they're looking on. and what is extraordinary about this, charlie, is most jews still believe synagogues are not allowed to have any images in them because of the second commandment, thou shalt not have graven images or likenesses. the fact that all early synagogues are fes festuned in

images until about the 16t 16th century. we have a jewish icon in one of the earliest synagogues we knew about. if it was all words, it would be good radio. >> charlie: the next slide is beaten out of england. >> yes, this is clearly not a jewish image. this is a medieval jewish image. this is from smashing it down on the heads of jews. there are things i wish tragically would have been but have not been. for example, there is a moment in the 13th century where there are 100 gallows set up with jews swinging on them accused of coin flipping. there are horrible disasters i have to deal with. >> charlie: this is a twin story of ark geology and biblical. >> yes, because word and image play together. we talk about portable writing.

the jews invent this tiny miniature hebrew ai air aramaicg that forms pictures and animals and beasts from mythology. the deep relationship between words and picture is very important. >> charlie: "the story of the jews," sometime sometime. >> thank you. >> charlie: one wee year ago, pe francis became pope of the catholic church. he sent a tweet, please pray for me. cardinal timothy dolan, the archbishop of new york, knows pope francis better than most and part of the college that elected him. pleased to have you. >> appreciate the invitation.

>> charlie: you are one of those who selected this. >> yes. >> charlie: you said you knew what you were getting but surprised at what you got. >> yes, you quoted me right. we're not surprised at the tenor or the substance of the pontificate on this year's anniversary. we rejoice in it. i think we are surprised how quickly and efficiently he began to implement his own agenda. that we're pleasantly and gratefully surprised at. i never knew this -- i was a rookie going into the conclave a year ago -- almost as important as the conclave which is the actual time locked in the sistine chapel to elect a new pope, almost as important as the conclave are the congregations that meet ten days ahead of time. it's almost like the new hampshire primary, not that anybody's running, but it was very clear that jorge mario bergoglio listened big time because he's doing a lot of

stuff we suggested and he'll often refer to the congregation. he'll say, as we cardinals talked about before the conclave. >> charlie: tell me what you cardinals wanted in a pope. >> first of all, you would want the same as you would want in any man -- a holy man, a sincere man, a pastoral man, a man who mirror's jesus christ. that would be true anytime. what we really wanted this time was a man who had a good track record of management, governance, administration, and jorge mario bergoglio had run one of the largest, most complicated, most diverse diocese in the world, the archdiocese of buenos aries very well. we wanted a man of simplicity and sincerity and a man who was a pro at presenting the timeless truths to have the faith in kind of a sparkling new way. that's what we were looking for. that was the job description. we thought, boy, that's a tall

order. but i think a year later, i think we say, bingo, got it. >> charlie: how has he changed the church? >> well, he's changed the church in a way that i think, look, he's changed the persona of the church. the very fact, charlie, you're inviting me -- i have been invited to your show before. most of the time when there's a crisis, when there's a black eye and something troubling, there's a controversy going here, the vatican says this and nobody understands it -- by the way, thanks for those invitations -- you're inviting me just because the world seems to be captivated by this guy. the church seems to have gotten some of its luster back, some of its magnetism, and that's what we wanted. we wanted a guy who could restore the luster, the poetry, the mystery of the church in a beautifully and simple and sincere way and is he ever doing it. >> charlie: he seems to have reminded the people of what the

message of jesus was. >> you got it. he's frustrated in some ways. one in where he gave the interview, i'm no superman, folks, i'm just like everybody else. i think one of his frustrations may be his basic message, 95% of what he says is what jesus christ said -- his person, invitation, his mercy, his salvation, that's his message. people seem to be caught up he's in a ford escort, doesn't live in the palace, wears black adidas, pays his own hotel bills and gets in and out of the jeep, where he's saying i wonder why they're fascinated with this, and i hope they pay as much attention to what i'm saying as they do to some of the superficialities. >> charlie: is he changing the roman curimu? >> he is. he has to do it two ways. he has to do it philosophically.

he's reminding the roman coria, this is not a career, we're not about ambition or clout or power, we're about service, right? number two -- so that's philosophically. but he's also got to change it structurally and practically. i think two appointments that would show he is the appointment of cardinal secretary of state who is widely respected as a man with immense pastoral skills, a sense of humility and service but very savvy when it comes to the church universal. and the second biggie the appointment of the australian rug by player. what everybody seems to be saying is we've got to get this money under control. this is giving the church a bad name that we can't balance our own check books and there is all this corruption. frances appointed george pel who everybody knows is a no nonsense street fighter, ru rugby player

that will ask the right questions and get it cleaned up. these are the two appointments that are working. >> charlie: you talked about the crisis in the church and had clearly to do with predator sexual -- >> oh, yeah, that's another one. >> charlie: where is he and what does he intend to do? >> i could tell you personally -- it wouldn't surprise you that the american cardinals speak to him often about this. because you talk about getting beat up and a church that suffered and some of the sufferings of our own making, a church that suffered immensely. some people say, the americans are making a lot of progress, so let's talk about it, and we talked to pope francis about it and he takes it with the utmost seriousness. if we're going to be sincere and true to the gospel, which is what francis is all about, you're talking about virtue, responsibility, openness, honesty, integrity. these are all the things that we

need to make sure is in place so that this horror doesn't happen. structurally, i think he's doing a lot. he likes -- he kind of likes the collegiate approach to things, to bring people together like he brought the eight cardinals together. he set up the 15-member commission to exercise vigilance over vatican finances and asked cardinal sean o'malley, said would you set up a group to make sure that the church universal is in accord with this? you're doing a pretty darn good job in the united states. i worry that this crisis and scandal will spread to other countries, i want to make sure we have things in order. >> charlie: controversial issues like abortion, contraception, divorce, women in the church. >> uh-huh. >> charlie: where is the church and does he obviously concern himself is with those issues? and where is he on those issues? >> yeah, good question. there's a bit of a change here -- i'm not talking about a change in the church's

teaching -- there's a bit of a change in approach. the word used to be, charlie, though i think somewhat inaccurate, the word used to be that, oh, catholics shouldn't even talk about these things. even that old pope john paul whom we all loved and pope benedict, they kind of said no more discussion on those things. they didn't say that, but that was the perception. this pope seems to say, you can talk about it all you want. i need to listen. i'm not saying we can change things but i owe you in justice and charity to give you a good hearing. so that's a change in strategy. >> also he says, i want to talk about that but we also have to talk about other things as well. >> well, he wants to put things in order. you know what's interesting? his strategy is, if we kind of say, controversial issues let's put aside for a while, we have been a little obsessed with those, let's first extend the arms to have the church and bring people in. once they get in and see the truth, goodness and beauty of the church, then they will see

the consequences of their belief, their discipleship in jesus christ and the other issues might fall into place. if we lead with the controversial issues, people will come in to begin with. but if we lead with the truth, beauty and goodness of the church and the person of jesus christ, we'll get people in and then gradually the transforming grace of the church's teaching and the mercy of jesus christ will take over. that's his new strategy, and i think it's a great one. >> charlie: he's uniting the church internally? >> oh, yes, i think so. and he's internally and externally. actually, in some ways, externally the unity in favor of francis is astonishing. >> charlie: yeah. i told you before, i can't walk down the street without the guy selling papers saying, hey, we love this new pope, thanks for electing him. but internally, could be some problems because the church, like any other organization, any other family does have factions

and divisions. he is uniting them, maybe not so much by what he says, but just by the power of his sincerity and simplicity he's bringing people together. >> charlie: what's his biggest challenge now? >> i think his biggest challenge is to restore the credibility of the church. for us as catholics, the essence of our faith is that jesus christ is alive in his church. jesus and his church are one. the studies are telling us that most of our people, boy, they sure love and accept jesus christ, but they've got troubles with the church. they see a cleavage between jesus and his church. for us as pastors, for us as catholics, that bothers us because the wisdom of the church is that jesus is alive within his church, that's where we come to know, love and serve him. so the main challenge for pope francis is to restore that luster, that magnetism, that color, that attraction to the church which exists to bring people to jesus christ. >> charlie: cardinal dolan, thank you. >> thank you, happy

st. patrick's. >> charlie: and to you. ferran adria is one of the world's most renowned and innovative chefs. he revolutionized the concept of eating with his restaurant elbulli. he closed it to start a foundation which opens next year. >> welcome to elbulli! (music) >> the people around here create things. seems everyone is able to push really the limits of creativity and imagination. and take a look at these olives. it looks like a traditional olive. actually, this one, take a look -- it's liquid inside! you know how they make this? it is fascinating. they get pure olive juice, they introduce it in a swimming pool

of potassium and you get this liquid and when you take it off you achieve a hard consistency in the outside but still is liquid inside. ates good thing. i can have seconds. and those are gnocchi with coffee. here again, things won't be what it seems because probably this gnocchi is liquid inside (laughter) yes! it is! >> charlie: "new york times" says ferran adria's menu is about as close to art as it gets. he has a new book, "elbulli 2005-2011", which features over 750 recipes. here's a glimpse of those dishes

from his recent film "1846". i am pleased to have ferran adria back at this table and glad to have his interpreter sophia perez as well.

good to see you. this man invited me to come to elbulli for the last meal and i couldn't come. it's high up on my list of regrets in life. >> so when he opens up the foundation, you will be able to come and they will be waiting for you. >> charlie: what is the elbulli foundation? >> the elbulli foundation is a project, its slogan is feeding and you want to help society, motivating people to create, using cooking as a tool and dialogue and other disciplines. it's made up of three projects, the elbulli 1846, elbulli dna and elbulli-pedia.

there's no frame of reference for it. it could be kind of a media lab of astronomy that you could visit, a small child could understand what the creative process is. elbulli dna is a creative team that's there in the lab. everything they create will be spread on the internet and elbulli-pedia is a reflection on information and knowledge in a world where an internet has changed all the rules. what is the information we have to find, what knowledge do we have have in any discipline -- in this case, cooking, which is the one i'm in. >> charlie: you with one part chef, one part scientist, one part artist.

how did you become that way? i'm just a neighborhood kid that didn't go to university. i give classes at harvard and i had the good luck to be with marvelous people, for example now. it wouldn't be logical. the only thing i've done is learn, observe and ask the why of things, always why, why, why. from this point, i always talk about you in europe. the best interviews that have ever been made of me have been with charlie rose, because he asks the why of things. things. sometimes we get answers,

sometimes not. >> charlie: answers to what? sometimes you get answers... >> first and foremost, life. the hardest thing that there is is to get up in the morning, look in the mirror and to be happy. you know, everybody wants, this of course. everybody looks for this. i have achieved this. in 30 years i get up in the morning very early, and i work 16 hours, doing what i love. i go to sleep, and i'm happy. they ask the question why? because i have passion for what i'm doing. because i have challenges that i always believe i'm not going to reach, but i fight to achieve them. in the end, that's what life is, to struggle to reach a challenge

and also cooking, which is a wonderful discipline, because millions of years when hombobulus (phonetic) appeared on the earth, we started to eat, our brains got bigger and that's why we are what we are today, for food. so what happened? over 2 million years in relation to cooking, there are a few things that we were able to make back then. we didn't have the intelligence to create a lotto things. but it's magical. when you look at cooking in this relationship, among humans, the first creativity was cooking. the elbulli foundation, we will be asking ourselves these questions. >> charlie: you are the number

one chef in the world. you had a restaurant that people begged to come to, reservations took many, many months. you gave that up, you closed the door because you said you wanted to create a legacy for the next generation. >> i closed elbulli as a restaurant to not close elbulli. except for being a chef, i have been a consultant, i have been a consultant of 25, 30 companies. now in a world of telephonica, it's fascinating what people know about me. what i've done is to learn, and i've learned how difficult it is

to have longevity -- the creative longevity. and, so, for longevity, if you sort of anticipate what's going to happen, we decided to transform elbulli because we could look ahead and see that maybe in five years we were going to decline -- a creative decline. and we had to sort of create a chaos, a big chaos so that that wouldn't happen. especially because i'm 50 years old. i'm very good friends with the vice president and he was telling me do you know that you're going to die and what's going to happen with all of this? what's going to happen with the legacy of elbulli? in the end, the restaurant is ephemeral, and how are you going to do this? and, so, we started constructing

the elbulli foundation. it's a space, a strange space, because the restaurant opens or closes, it doesn't get transformed, and this is what's amazing. we're constructing every day a story. we've done four or five exhibitions on elbulli. in madrid there will be an exhibition on the process of elbulli in general. it's never been done before, the concept of a creative audit. it's very much art, and these books are based on it. in the creative world, you have to have these things. you can't just say, i'm creative and you leave me alone. no, when you put money down, in a sense, you have to have a

result. or people say you're a chef. yes. but you're involved with a very big company. you have a global vision. so what do we have in the restaurant world? that's special? immediacy. when you go to ask for coffee, you want it right away. if you apply this to the creative process, it's crazy. because the efficiency is ten times more. this is what we share, and we want to share in the elbulli foundation. people will come from other disciplines, from any discipline, where we'll compare and we'll share the creative process. is it better to work in the morning or the evening? do you have teams of one, three, five people?

how do you make up the team? how do you teach them mental strength to a team? how do the space haves to be, the creative spaces? all of my experiences over these years, we want to share it. >> charlie: david chang, our mutual friend -- (laughter) >> we met here. >> charlie: we had a meal together, a lunch. he says this is an inspiration -- an inspiration to chefs to constantly and continually question the status quo. >> when we had elbulli and it was open, i didn't like too much about what it meant. now that it's closed, i'm a little more free to think about what i thought about the place. the idea of ego, on my part,

it's already covered. otherwise, it would have been called the adria foundation. it's called the elbulli foundation because elbulli was created by a lot of people. the 3,000 people who passed through and worked there. and people like david chang, even though he didn't work there, he believed -- he believed that what we were doing there was making cuisine evolve. when you look at all the people who have passed through elbulli that today are the most influential cooks in the world -- chefs in the world, you knew something special was going on there, the spirit of elbulli, the ethics, honesty, sharing, liberty, freedom, risk, passion. in any kind of business, in any kind of business, it's the dream that you could have -- that the whole team would have.

and this business is created by all the people who passed through and this is the strength of elbulli. there's lots of young chefs that have done this, not so much the dishes, but the philosophy. >> charlie: these are images that are in these seven books. elbulli evolutionary analysis 2005 to 2011. the the first is elbulli dish one. take a look at this. >> this is a cocktail. in 2005 ebully, and we started to understand and do solid cocktails. today, in quotation, it's kind of a fashion now, and the cocktail world, it's been revolutionized, and there are a lot of people doing these kinds of creative cocktails. >> charlie: next one is elbulli dish two. >> this one is magic. >> charlie: magic.

ates green almond -- it's a green almond. you would cover it like a vegetable and you would make a juice. you would juice it. you would only do it in elbulli. no one had ever done it before. >> charlie: elbulli dish three? >> it's a dessert created by his brother, albert adria. the concept is nature. they're roots. andeth one of the most imitated -- and it's one of the most imitated styles in the dessert, pastry world, sort of copying nature in the pastry world. >> charlie: elbulli dish four. >> this is also incredible. they're roses. you can actually eat these roses. people were, like, roses? as if it were a vegetable.

it's an artichoke, a flower, and roses are, too. if we treat it like a vegetable, we treat it like a vegetable here, it was magical. he thinks it's the fir the firsn history that someone prepared a rose in this way. >> charlie: next is culinary evolution one. >> within the work that we're doing now, when does cooking start as we understand it today? we were talking archeologists, ananthropologists, we reached a conclusion in the anlithic period because you havetten wear. you can boil and fry things. if we didn't have these tools, imagine. then we have agriculture, grains, flowers. you have livestock and ranching,

milk and derivatives and eggs. you have commerce and trade, people exchange products. if we stop imagining, we become sedentary. the cooking starts then. before, you could eat, of course, and that's a theory -- well, it's very proven and it marks sort of the path of the study pore the future. >> charlie: number six, culinary evolution two. >> it's to get this theory sort of set up. there's no photos to explain it from a half million years ago. >> charlie: yeah. how can i visualize it? when i would imagine eating fruit? in the morning, i would get up

at 7:00, and it was sort of a story i would imagine in my mind. this is sort of the exposition and now going to los angeles in may and cleveland and minnesota. it's visualizing. >> charlie: the next one is called evolution three. >> it's a reflection. how many trees that give or produce fruits were there in the origin? maybe there were five and they were hybridized and we had evolution. this made me think, 3 million years ago, there were very few vegetables and fruits. everything was mixed and fiberized and it changed the genetics in a low way, but a

plum, for example, is a mix. a nectarine is a mix of a peach and a plum, and this has been the evolution and history. i imagine how it was evolving, alwayall the whole vegetable and fruit world today. >> charlie: your friend, my friend, nathan merbol. >> a very important figure in the world of cooking. because he's brought the scientific method, his way of working. i learned so much from him and in the world of cooking it's a luxury, an incredible luxury that nathan is working with us. in this world, i always tell all chefs, we have to thank him so much. i think he's the most intelligent person i've known in my life, and i've known a lot of

people, i've met a lot of people. you know him. and this is an example of how smart he is, but he hasn't started the restaurant. but that's the interesting part. >> charlie: and he takes photographs. beautiful, beautiful, beautiful photographs. >> but also he made microsoft. >> charlie: he was the chief technologist, the chief technologist at microsoft. had a lot of technologists up there. here's what he said about you. >> well, i think he had an amazing contribution to 21s 21st century i. >> charlie: in pioneering electrical cooking? >> in pioneering his own style and bringing restauranting to the highest level.

ferran comes to work as a bus boy in the restaurant of a miniature golf course, a seaside bar and grill. this is not a very propitious start to change the world, but, over a period of time, he taught himself and then kept innovating and innovating, originally wanting to emulate the great masters in france, he emulates them and then blows past creating his own dynamic, unusual cuisine. >> a great deal of fortune happened because his reflections enriched us and this is a great revolution in the world of cuisine. yesterday i was talking to a journalist, i know food writers and journalists are worried because chefs are starting to think (laughter) of course we have to think.

it's not to become philosophers. it's just the idea of, if we're cooking, we have to understand what we're doing, and someone like nathan, he shows us the way. >> charlie: and so do you. thank you for coming. ferran adria, thank you very much. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

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