captioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer productions >> ifill: c.e.o. faced a blistering round of questions from lawmakers today. she expressed remorse, but didn't explain why the company took so long to alert the public about deadly defects in millions of cars. good evening, i'm gwen ifill. >> woodruff: and i'm judy woodruff. also ahead this tuesday, a senate report charges the c.i.a. misled the government and the public about its harsh interrogation program. concealing brutal methods and overstating results. >> ifill: plus, the push in many states to expand pre-school, and to make sure the places that do have it are offering a quality education. >> most four-year-olds who go to preschool programs, go to

programs that aren't good. the standards are so low, its questionable whether you should call it a preschool education. >> ifill: those are just some of the stories we're covering on tonight's pbs newshour. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> at bae systems, our pride and dedication show in everything we do; from electronics systems to intelligence analysis and cyber- operations; from combat vehicles and weapons to the maintenance and modernization of ships, aircraft, and critical infrastructure. knowing our work makes a difference inspires us everyday. that's bae systems. that's inspired work. >> i've been around long enough to recognize the people who are out there owning it. the ones getting involved, staying engaged.

they are not afraid to question the path they're on. because the one question they never want to ask is, "how did i end up here?" i started schwab with those people. people who want to take ownership of their investments, like they do in every other aspect of their lives. >> and the william and flora hewlett foundation, helping people build immeasurably better lives. >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions and foundations. and... >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> woodruff: president obama announced this afternoon that 7.1 million people signed up

for health insurance, before last night's deadline. that tops the administration's original goal, and it came despite glitches on the healthcare.gov website. the president marked the achievement with an event in the white house rose garden. >> millions of our fellow citizens know the economic security of health insurance who didn't just a few years ago. and that's something to be proud of. regardless of your politics or your feelings about me or your feelings about this law, that's something that's good for our economy. it's good for our country. there's no good reason to go back. >> woodruff: there was no immediate word on how many of the enrollees were previously uninsured, or how many have paid their premiums. and beyond those questions, republicans charged again the health care law is doing more harm than good. senate minority leader mitch mcconnell. >> all across the country our

constituents are having an unpleasant interaction with obamacare whether they can sign up for a policy or not. what they're discovering is of course higher premiums, higher deductibles. many of them are losing their jobs and so, it is really a catastrophe for the country, both for the health care providers and the consumers. >> woodruff: the total number of 2014 enrollees is expected to go higher still. officials have said applicants who began the enrollment process but weren't able to complete it, will likely qualify for an extension. for the first time in more than seven years, no american troops died in afghanistan during an entire month. casualties have been declining as the size of the u.s. force dwindles to 33,000 the pentagon said today the last month with no u.s. fatalities in the afghan war was january of 2007. the official death toll from the washington state mudslide

reached 27 today, while the number of people missing was lowered to 22. meanwhile, governor jay inslee reported that damage from the slide has reached $10 million. he asked for a federal disaster declaration. bad weather again hindered the search for the missing malaysia airlines flight. eleven planes returned to their base in perth, australia without finding anything. and the head of the search effort warned, it could, "drag on for a long time." john sparks of independent television news went out with one of the planes, and filed this report. >> reporter: personnel and planes from five nations have gathered here. and the recovery of the stricken jet-liner, now their collective responsibility. but they've made little progress still, nobody's giving up. crew members from this australian orion have already made eight attempts to find debris from flight 370. yet all they've found so far is bad weather and plenty of false leads.

>> there's been multiple sightings of objects, it's just, the problem is they haven't been able to confirm whether or not they're related to the aircraft. and that's the difficulty we have. >> reporter: flight lieutenant dawson provided an example, they saw this yesterday. >> no neither can i. you've got to try an id them, but it's a trade off between identifying something and continuing with the search as well. >> reporter: these are not ideal conditions to conduct a search operation. in fact, the pilot's just called the weather "shocking." the visibility is poor. the swell is high. and that doesn't make it easy to find debris. it's a pretty bumpy ride, as well. the aircraft bounced around 350 feet above the water, and the crew did their best, trying to pick out objects on the surface, but they didn't see much, a few fishing buoys, and a pod of

whales, once again, there was no sign of mh370. their work was painstaking and professional but 10 squardron's latest mission offered little in return. no debris no evidence of a boeing triple seven that's disappeared without a trace. still, the australians and their orion will be back up there tomorrow. for the first time, evacuees from the fukushima nuclear disaster in japan will be allowed to live in their former homes. more than 100,000 people fled the 12-mile hot zone around the plant after an earthquake and tsunami wrecked three nuclear reactors in march of 2011. as of today, 357 people were allowed to go back, to an area where radiation levels are deemed safe. it was unclear how many would decide to make the move. n.a.t.o. member countries ordered a halt today to all civilian and military cooperation with russia.

they also agreed to consider sending more arms and troops to parts of eastern europe. it's a reaction to russia's annexation of crimea and troop buildup near eastern ukraine. meanwhile, moscow sharply increased natural gas prices for ukraine. the move puts new pressure on the financially struggling nation. in economic news, u.s. auto sales picked up last month. chrysler reported a 13% increase in sales. ford, toyota and nissan all reported single-digit gains. general motors was up 4%, despite a series of safety recalls. on wall street today, the dow jones industrial average gained nearly 75 points to close at 16,532. the nasdaq rose 69 points to close at 4,268. the s-and-p 500 added 13, to finish at 1,885. still to come on the newshour: g.m.'s c.e.o. faces questions over deadly defects; allegations the cia hid facts about it's

harsh interrogation program; the push for quality pre-school programs; a look inside syria's civil war; plus, new hurdles to a mideast peace deal. >> ifill: general motors c.e.o. mary barra appeared before a congressional committee today for the first time to answer some of the many questions about a series of major recalls. she faced a grilling at times. one congressman even told her, "we don't trust the company right now." >> between 2003 and 2014, gm learned hundreds of reports of ignition switch problems through customer complaints, warranty claims, lawsuits, press coverage, field reports, and even more internal

investigations. >> with all that information available, why did it take so long to issue the recall? >> ifill: senior lawmakers from both parties made clear, they want answers. at issue: why g.m. took so long, years, to fix vehicles with faulty ignition switches. they're now linked to air bag failures and at least 13 deaths. g.m.'s c.e.o., mary barra, has been on the job just since january. >> sitting here today, i cannot tell you why it took years for a safety defect to be announced in that program, but i can tell you that we will find out, as soon as learned about the problem, we acted without hesitation. we told the world we had a problem that needed to be fixed. we did so because whatever mistakes were made in the past, we will not shirk from our responsibilities now and in the future. >> ifill: g.m. company documents indicate the automaker knew of the problem as far back as 2001, in chevrolet cobalts, saturn

ions and other models. recalls finally began in february, and the total number of affected vehicles has now reached 2.6 million. even more recalls are underway for other defects. but barra acknowledged, that's far too late for some. >> today's g.m. will do the right thing. that begins with my sincere apologies to everyone who has been affected by this recall especially to the families and friends of those who lost their lives or were injured. i am deeply sorry. >> ifill: barra vowed that an internal investigation will find the facts, but committee members pressed for details. >> as far back as 2004, g.m. conducted problem resolution tracking inquiry after it learned of incident that key moved out of run condition, is that correct? >> yes.

>> thank you, now after the prts inquiry one engineer advised against further action because there was quote no acceptable business case to provide resolution at p.r.t.s. was closed. is that correct? >> if that is true that is a very disturbing fact. that is not the way we make decisions. >> ifill: congresswoman degette said g.m.'s own documents showed a defective spring in the ignition assemblies would have cost 57 cents. the committee also called david friedman, acting head of the national highway traffic safety administration. the agency first heard complaints about the g.m. vehicles in 2005. >> some of that information did raise concerns about air bag non-deployments. so in 2007, we convened an expert panel to review the data. our consumer complaint data on injury crashes with air bag non-denoiments showed neither the cobalt nor the ion stood out when compared to other vehicles.

>> ifill: friedman pointed the finger at gm, saying it withheld significant details for years. but his testimony drew fire. >> what specifically did n.h.t.s.a. ask g.m. did you ask why would an air bag not deploy in your car? >> i don't have a record of that. i know our team brought it up but not that specific question. >> ifill: the questions and answers played out before family members of the 13 victims. they had earlier pushed for answers on the steps of capitol. ken reimer and his wife jane lost their daughter natasha in a 2005 chevy cobalt accident. >> the accident report shows that speed was not a factor. weather was not a factor. nor road conditions or traffic. the ignition system was found in the accessory position by accident investigators. none of this ever had to happen.

it could have been easily addressed and corrected. >> ifill: laura christian's 16 year old daughter amber marie rose also died in a 2005 crash. >> our daughters, sons, sisters, brothers, mothers, fathers, wives and husbands are gone because they were a cost of doing business g.m.'s style. corporate executives made a decision that fighting the problem was cheaper and easier than fixing the problem. >> ifill: g.m.'s barra met with the families yesterday, and after the hearing, she promised again the auto maker will meet its obligations. >> we were definitely moving to a culture focused on the consumer, focused on the customer, focused on high quality and safety and that's my direction and that's what we're doing today. >> ifill: barra did not say when g.m.'s internal probe will conclude. it's been reported the justice department is also looking into the matter.

both mary barra and david friedman will testify before a senate committee tomorrow. for more on what came out of today's hearing, we turn again to david shepardson, who covers the automotive industry for the detroit news. and joan claybrook, the president emeritus of public citizen, who's been working with some of the victims' families. she's also a former administrator of the national highway traffic safety administration. david shepardson, we heard mary barra say not once but several times today that today's g.m. would not do -- would do the right thing. what did yesterday's g.m. do? what was the culture she was talking about which led to this? >> well, she found herself in the position of basically disavowing and rejecting many of the decisions g.m. made, you know, around 2005. she was presented with e-mails that showed the company had opted not to improve the ignition switches, in one case saying the amount the company would save in warranty costs, only about 10 to 15 cents per switch, was not as much as the

90 cents per switch it would have cost to make the change. she said the new g.m. does not put a cost on safety, whatever it takes they're going to fix cars but, you know, in the face of these documents she had really little choice but to say this is not acceptable today. >> ifill: and she said repeatedly she couldn't answer the question because it's still under investigation, right? >> and that only went so far with the committee and the senate tomorrow is going to push her, too. and part of that is a fair answer, there are a lot of questions they don't know. i mean, g.m. has amassed about 6 million pages of records in this investigation, but a part of it is still getting to the bottom of how far up the chain do these decisions get made? was this a low-level decision by engineers to not fix this, you know, for what was a very small amount of money? or did it go much higher than that? >> ifill: explain one key thing which came up today which is this potential coverup, at least those were words members of congress used, of a safety

problem found in 2006. >> well, in 2006, the switches that have been recalled or linked to the 13 deaths, the switch was changed to a much improved switch, but the company did not change the part. in fact, it showed in the committee the record from the engineer that signed off on it, they didn't change the part number. that's very unusual because you would want to change the part, be able to track how the new switch is performing versus the old switch and it wasn't actually till last year that an outside engineer figured out this problem because they couldn't understand why some vehicles were showing much higher failure rates than others, and that is a central question here, why didn't g.m. change the part number, why didn't they inform n.h.t.s.a., and was this something that they were eager to hide by not making a change in the part number. >> ifill: joan claybrook as a former head of n.h.t.s.a. and speaking on behalf of the families as the victim's families, were you satisfied with the answers you heard? >> no. i think that mary barra should

have been more prepared to give particular answers. general motors has submitted 200,000 pages of documents to the committees in congress, and they've also submitted a time line, several different versions, three or four of them, i think, to the department of transportation. so she should have been better prepared, in my view, to give answers. i think that she wants to reserve her options for how she frames this when she gets the whole investigation finished inside general motors. >> ifill: g.m. announced today they retained ken feinberg, the compensation specialists, to speak about how to compensate certain victims of the pre-bankruptcy 2009. so is that what you think? is that how an internal investigation should look, looking in terms of compensation? >> well, that's not the internal investigation i was referring to. i'm referring to the hiring of

an outside law firm to do an unvarnished evaluation as mary barra said of what happened and why it happened and who was involved. i think it's a very positive move to hear that they have hired ken feinberg because consumer groups asked mary barra in a letter to set aside a $1 billion fund to compensate others, people who were injured or killed in crashes that occurred before july 2009, which is the date of the bailout. what happened in the bailout, it was quite unusual, in my view, is that they said any crash that occurred before the bailout is the responsibility of the old general motors which has no money and, therefore, people are not going to get any money, in i compensation for their injuries. >> ifill: so there's a liability pre-2009, a liability shield? >> there's a liability shield, that's right. the fact that she's now talking about having ken feinberg look at this and see if there's a way

to compensate these individuals, i think that's a very positive move and i hope that that occurs. >> ifill: david shepardson, i want to ask you about the national highway traffic safety administration as well, their role, they were also testifying today, they were also pressed on these questions. did lawmakers seem to believe that they were any way culpable on these? >> they're really bearing down on a decision that n.h.t.s.a. made in 2007. one of their senior investigators said there were reports of four fatal crashes in these now recalled cobalts and asked his superiors to open a formal investigation. the government did not do that and, unfortunately, in terms of timing, one of these special crash reports came out early the next year which showed that, in fact, the non-deployment of the air bag was tied to the fact the key slipped out of position, but by the time they got that report, the government already decided not to open that investigation. now, the government says the data was not there and, really,

tried to point the finger back at g.m. saying, if they'd had more information like the part change number, like the fact that, in 2002, the initial part, the switch never met g.m.'s own specifications and they told the supplier go ahead and build it anyway. so they argue, the government, if g.m. had provided more information they could have made a different decision. they're not admitting any wrongdoing at this point. >> ifill: joan claybrook, should the government have had more responsibility for this? >> absolutely. i think general motors bears the basic responsibility because it built and designed and sold and evaluated and had a lot of information about this error in the ignition switch. but the government keeps saying they didn't have enough data, which is really terrifically outrageous. the fact is it's a design defect. this problem is a design defect and if you have a design defect, it affects every part that was

made, and they knew that there were crashes that were caused by this, but there were injuries that resulted in death. it didn't matter how many consumer complaints or warranty claims they had, they did not need any more data. when i was in charge of this agency in the '70s, we looked at things to see whether or not there was a design defect and, if there was, and if it could cause harm, and if the problem arose, that was absolutely, per se, a safety defect. so they're treating this whole thing as though they have to gather tons and tons of paper in order to make a decision, and i think that that's completely wrong, an it's a real failure at the agency, and i hope that they will revise this, and there's a lot of work going on now to try to persuade them to look at this in a different way. >> ifill: for the record, we did invite representatives from g.m. to appear tonight and declined. joan claybrook, joa president emeritus of public citizen, and

david shepardson of detroit news. thank you both. >> thank you. blvrn >> woodruff: a classified report by the senate intelligence committee alleges that the c.i.a. misled the government and the public over aspects of it's interrogation program for years. a "washington post" story today based on interviews with those who have seen the document says that the c.i.a. concealed details about the severity of its interrogation methods, overstated the significance of plots and prisoners and took credit for pieces of intelligence that were already obtained from detainees before they were subjected to harsh techniques. we examine the details now with greg miller of the washington post. greg miller, welcome. the "newshour" received a statement from the c.i.a. a short time ago saying they are not going to respond to this report in "the washington post" until they get a final copy of the study from the intelligence

committee. having said that, 6300-page report, why was the senate intelligence committee conducting this kind of study of the c.i.a.? >> well, this all started a number of years ago, now, and launched largely because there was a debate at the outset of the obama administration when obama was dismantling this program about whether it worked. i mean, there were always sort of different categories of debate about this program -- was it moral, legal, and a question of was it effective. a lot of defenders of the program said after 9/11 we didn't have a choice but to take extreme measures, and it worked, saved lives and prevented attacks. so senator feinstein, the chairman of the intelligence committee, made it a first job to zero in on the question, is it true? did it work? what did the agency's own records say about that? >> reporter:. >> woodruff: so what would you say the main findings are here? i know there's a lot to cover,

but what would you single out? >> i think there are to. one is they see very little evidence the enhanced techniques -- water boarding, sleep deprivation, things like that -- delivered any significant intelligence in the aftermath of 9/11. in fact, much of the best intelligence from prisoners who were subjected to these techniques came before that ever happened, in other words when they were initially questioned before they were subjected to these harsh measurers. the other one i think is the committee concludes that the agency was misleading. agency officials in washington frequently misled lawmakers and others in government about this program and would conflate the intelligence that was gathered from other means and other sources with what it got from enhanced interrogation. >> woodruff: kind of stunning,

isn't it, they would say that the kind of interrogation they were doing didn't produce significant results? >> right, and it's add odds with the assertions of senior officials from former vice president cheney and former c.i.a. directors on down, and there are a big chunk of this report by the committee looks at assertions like that and compares it to the -- what's in the cables, the classified correspondence and communications of lower-level c.i.a. employees directly involved in the program. >> woodruff: we should point out, greg, your story says -- you say current and former c.i.a. officials describe this study as "marred" by factual errors and misguided conclusions. you also say c.i.a. veterans argue it reflects what they call f.b.i. biases, and you point out one of the principle authors of the study is an f.b.i. analyst.

so talk about that. >> right, and i mean this could reignite this long-standing feud between the c.i.a. and the f.b.i. because f.b.i. officials, some of them were agast that the agency and the u.s. government would embrace these kinds of methods, even after the september 11 attacks and have been very clear about that for a long time. and, so, the fact that one of the principal authors of the senate study is a former f.b.i. analyst and the committee also looked through f.b.i. documents and notes and so forth has raised that sort of suspicion. i think the committee would say, look, the bulk of this report is based on c.i.a. documents. they looked at more than 6 million classified memoranda and records from within the agency, and that accounted for 99-plus percent of the material that they examined for this inquiry. >> woodruff: but do these kinds of concerns expressed by unnamed c.i.a. officials

undermine in some way the credibility of the report? >> well, i mean, i think that's -- i think we're going to see a lot of that going forward because none of this has been released publicly so far. at best, we're probably going to see an executive summary that's several hundred pages long released to the public several weeks or months away, and they're already sort of jockeying over how this report is going to be received, so there will be efforts to discredit it and to point out, you know, maybe there's an f.b.i. bias here, there's criticism of the committee because they didn't interview or speak with any c.i.a. officials, it's based exclusively on documentary evidence, so you will see that line of attack. >> woodruff: what is going to determine how much of this is released to the public? >> well, i think that comes to the white house and the c.i.a. and the ball will be in their court soon. the senate committee is supposed to vote this thursday to transmit its executive summary

to president obama who has already indicated that he's in favor of release ago portion of this if not all of that executive summary, then it goes to the agency and they have to scrub it for classification issues. so, you know, we'll have to watch to see how much of this they let go. >> woodruff: a lot of folks are bracing themselves, i'm sure. greg miller, "washington post," we thank you. >> thank you. >> ifill: tens of thousands of parents in new york city will get a chance to send their children this fall to free full- time pre-kindergarten classes, thanks to a new $300 million state program announced jointly by new york governor andrew cuomo and city mayor bill de blasio. educators hoping to expand pre-k on the national level are keeping an eye on cost, and quality. special correspondent john tulenko of "learning matters" has our report. >> the problem is were still not reaching enough kids, and were

not reaching them in time and that has to change. >> reporter: the president is talking about preschool. this year, federal spending on early childhood education, which had been around $7.5 billion , will increase by a billion more. preschool is also getting attention from big city mayors, including new york city mayor, bill de blasio. >> we must achieve the tax plan i put forward for full-day pre-k for every child in this city. >> reporter: florida, oklahoma, west virginia and georgia already offer preschool to everyone. and 30 governors are proposing to expand it in their states, so children get a boost. >> kids develop better cognitive skills and success breeds success. >> reporter: rutgers university professor steve barnett has devoted his career to better understanding how preschool affects outcomes for children. >> its not just about learning colors, and shapes, and letters and numbers, those things are

important, but it's also learning about how to control my own emotions, how to get along with other people. and so you put all that together and those things can put kids on a much more successful life-path than if they don't have them. >> reporter: but as barnetts research has shown, all that depends on having quality preschool programs. and he's concerned that in some states today, the most politicians are doing is talking up a good game. >> most four-year-olds who go to preschool programs, go to programs that aren't good. i think its a kind of bait and switch. it's easy to make a commitment and not put enough money behind it. and it's very difficult for parents to know that their state is not actually doing what they say they are. >> reporter: barnett worries in particular about california, texas, and florida. >> the standards are so low; its questionable whether you should call it pre-school education.

>> reporter: what does it look like? >> you have a teacher with no qualifications requirements. no limit on class sizes or ratios. states pay $2,300 a child, which is less than a quarter what kindergarten costs. it's hard to believe it's more than babysitting. >> reporter: 10 states, don't even offer that: they have no public preschool. among the others, 27 make it free only to families near or below the poverty line. that helps explain why public preschools enroll only about a quarter of the nations eight million three-and-four- year-olds. a few of those lucky children go to this preschool center in perth amboy, new jersey. here, preschool is free, regardless of income. jeri mast is the director. >> we are teaching everything, the language, the literacy, the math, so that they're more academically prepared

for school. >> reporter: children can be here from seven in the morning until six at night, getting more than academics. >> most children in our schools will get of their food intake here at school. we can get kids coats and hats, mittens when it's cold. were a full service operation. >> reporter: classes here are small: one fully licensed teacher and an aide for every fifteen children. the center has a well-equipped playroom, technology and other extras. all this costs about $13,000 per child per year, money perth amboy gets from a class action lawsuit it filed several years ago against the state of new jersey. the rest of the country will have to find other ways to pay for preschool. where will the money come from for that? >> it comes out of general revenues. we've been talking about it being expensive, its not a lot of money.

the federal tax break that allows hedge fund managers to pay 15% income tax basically, costs $83 billion a year. we could provide preschool to all our kids for far less money than that. >> reporter: last year, president obama asked for $75 billion, funded by a proposed federal tax on cigarettes, to roughly double the number of children in preschool over the next decade. lawmakers rejected it. >> we shouldn't just be grabbing new ideas and creating new programs and adding to the debt. >> reporter: opponents included republican congressman john kline, who did vote yes on the far more modest, $1 billion increase in federal funds for preschool, as part of the budget that passed in january. >> we'd like to see preschool that work because there is growing evidence and its recognized on both sides of the aisle that early childhood learning is worthwhile, but let's not just grab a new program and start trying to fund it.

>> reporter: but preschool might actually save taxpayers money, according to steve barnett. >> kids who went to preschool, they need far less special education. they're far less likely to fail and repeat. you add all that up and that's going to outweigh the cost of the preschool program, by itself. >> reporter: and, he says, that's just the start of the savings. >> the big part comes later on because kids are less involved in crime, delinquency. they're more productive in the workforce, they have lower health-care costs, those are the big long-term savings. >> reporter: but critics argue the long-term gains rest on thin evidence. and short-term gains have come under scrutiny too. >> kids are really not ready for school and you know there's a famous study that says by the time you get to third grade, it doesn't matter anyway. >> reporter: klines referring to a 2012 study of headstart, the federal preschool program.

it found children's early gains in language and reading had virtually disappeared by the end of third grade. the reason for that, the authors say, is that many children who didn't go to preschool quickly catch-up. but it's also possible the children who did go are slowing down. with overcrowded classes and fewer support staff, the lingering affects of the recession, instructional quality in many elementary schools has suffered. >> it's like a relay race. you cant say i ran a really good 1st lap so now i can walk the next one. you're going to lose the race is you do that. well, preschool is the same way, its a really good first lap, you have to keep running hard. >> reporter: barnett hopes the improving economy, and bi- partisan support in many places, will keep up the momentum and public monies for high quality preschool and beyond. >> woodruff: we turn now to syria, where three years of

civil war have left more than 140,000 people dead. the city of homs was once seen as the capital of the revolution. now, it's mostly controlled by assad government forces we take a look inside the besieged city, with a report from lindsey hilsum of independent television news. >> everyone's a suspect. so the soldier's search each car before letting it through. there's not much beauty near the frontline in homs. maybe that's why they've decorated their checkpoint barrier. the left tennant walked me through the neighborhood of bab sparr. he didn't want to show his face. the last battle, he told me, will be very soon. they're ready for it. the soldiers say that this is as far as we can come, the frontline is just beyond those buildings, less than 50 yards away. it's quiet now during the daytime but there's still fighting every night. what the soldiers say is the

united nations has taken the civilians out, it's only fighters in there so they want to go in and finish the job. today the soldiers are relaxing, they seem pretty confident. two years ago government forces pummeled rebel held suburbs in homs with artillery. then they starved them out, when the u.n. evacuated civilians from old homs in february scores of hungry rebel fighters came too. less than a thousand are believed to be holding out. >> ( translated ): the best thing is if they give up their weapons and take advantage of the amnesty. if they surrender their weapons, they can return to normal life. >> reporter: in a centre for displaced people, i met rebels who've surrendered. in other cities similar young men disappeared into president assad's jails. but in homs, the authorities say they'll be freed after checking their criminal records. with soldiers listening no one was going to criticize the

government. but there's no doubt they're weary of war. >> ( translated ): in the beginning, we asked for simple justice. things everyone should have. but then it became something much bigger, and they brought heavy weapons and when foreigners intervened they started to play off one religious sect against the other. >> reporter: a mile or so away, on al hadara or civilization street, you wouldn't even know there was a war on. the rebels never made any inroads into this area where most people are from president assad's alawite sect. but in babr amr, a sunni quarter which rebels controlled for two years, government forces showed no mercy. no-one knows how many lost their lives here, civilians and fighters alike living month after month under constant bombardment. a few people have returned to start again. growing their own food because everyone's been impoverished.

the kids are hard at work, they lost a brother in the bombing, their father's been missing for eight months, their mother's struggling to look after them. >> ( translated ): i swear to god we're crying everyday about the empty houses and the people who fled. we don't know where they are. i pray to god we can return to the way things were before. >> reporter: how to make a living? ibrahim juma used to get ten customers a day at his bicycle repair shop, now he's lucky to get two. >> ( translated ): there's sadness everywhere, a bad feeling, a sense of loss because we used to see our neighbors in the morning but now we don't. it's sad, we don't know where they are. our neighbors were like our brothers and i miss them. >> reporter: the government believes it's won in homs and must fight not negotiate to win elsewhere.

this then is the face of victory in syria. ruined cities, ruined lives, and the prospect of many more years of conflict to come. >> ifill: online, we have a report on the latest numbers of the death toll from syria's civil war. a british monitoring group found despite official counts, the actual toll was likely closer to 220,000 people killed in the last three years. that's on our rundown. >> woodruff: the fate of u.s. led peace negotiations between israel and the palestinians hit new hurdles today, and the very future of the talks might be in jeopardy. >> woodruff: secretary of state john kerry had been all set to resume his middle east shuttle diplomacy, amid talk of possible progress. then came word from palestinian president mahmoud abbas that he's resuming a campaign for u.n. recognition.

>> ( translated ): we will apply to 15 agencies and conventions immediately. >> woodruff: abbas blamed israel for stalling an agreed-upon release of palestinian prisoners. the last of 104 prisoners were to have been freed in march. >> ( translated ): we have been promised nine times that the fourth batch of prisoners would be released. this afternoon was the latest promise that the israeli government would be convening to approve that. this did not happen. >> woodruff: with that, kerry canceled a return visit to the region, scheduled for tomorrow. he spoke at n.a.t.o. headquarters in brussels. >> this is a moment to be clear- eyed and sober about process. it's difficult and emotional. all i can tell you is we are continuing even now to be engage with both parties to find best way forward.

>> reporter: earlier, it had been widely reported the u.s. was working to win the release of those palestinian prisoners. the prospective agreement did not include a freeze on israeli settlement expansion, long a demand of the u.s. and palestinians. instead, it reportedly involved the possible release from prison of american jonathan pollard. the u.s. navy intelligence analyst was convicted of spying for israel almost 30 years ago, and is still serving a life sentence. successive israeli governments have echoed strong public sentiment there in asking for his release. >> reporter: pollard was interviewed by israeli television in 1998, after israel acknowledged he'd been spying, and granted him citizenship. >> for israel to have admitted that i was an agent, was a precondition for an equitable resolution of my affair. >> reporter: pollard waived a

parole hearing scheduled for today according to prison officials, as diplomatic wrangling continued. earlier, white house press secretary jay carney said president obama had made no decision to release pollard. but he did not rule it out. >> the need for and benefits of a peace between the israelis and the palestinians, a peace that provides the palestinians with their own state and provides security to a democratic, jewish state of israel transcend this issue and many others that are part of the discussions that we have. >> reporter: secretary kerry had hoped to have a framework peace agreement by the end of this month. now, if a deal can be salvaged, it might simply ensure that peace talks continue into next year. >> woodruff: joining us now to discuss all of the latest developments and the prospects

for continuing the talks are: aaron david miller, a former senior state department advisor on arab-israeli negotiations. he's now a scholar at the woodrow wilson center. shibley telhami is the anwar sadat professor of peace and development at the university of maryland and a senior fellow at the brookings institution. and david pollock, a former senior advisor on the middle east at the state department. and now a visiting fellow at the washington institute for near east policy welcome to the "newshour" to all three of you. >> pleasure. shibley telhami, let me start with you. why is today mahmoud abbas saying he's going to go to the u.n. seeking recognition for the palestinians. why now and why are the israelis so opposed? >> probably two issues. one, if you look at it from his point of view and his constituents point of view, he's being asked to extend negotiations without getting ruts, something he said he wouldn't do. he needs to look tough to

constituents. it in some ways makes it easier for him to agree tomorrow or the next day to extend the negotiations, but the second thing is, palestinians always feel like they're being taken for granted. there's an asymmetry of power favoring israel, and in this case there was the recent prisoner which had been agreed upon from the beginning. it's interesting. there's a little symmetry here because when secretary kerry asked both sides to come to the negotiating table, he asked for gestures. israeli made the gesture on prisoners. palestinians made the gesture of not going to international institutions to essentially fail cases on israel. not that the israelis are not fulfilling their part of the prisoner release, the palestinians feel they have one little lever that they can send a signal they have something to go back on. >> woodruff: aaron david miller, how do you read what he

did? >> money is betting on israeli piece. john kerry went into a semiomission impossible in a process where there were gaps on all the core issues very deep. and there's an absence of urgency and ownership. abbas finds himself in a position where not only are the appetizers off the table -- that is to say the fourth tranche of prisoner releases -- the prospects of actually eating the main course, a framework agreement by the end of april or even the end of 2014, seems actually quite dubious. and my own conviction is, you know, it's like rock and roll. it's never going to die, but this process right now is coming to a critical moment because, if people abandon the faith that talking can get them what they want, then the obvious implications and consequences are prohibitive. >> woodruff: i should say, coming to you, david pollock,

secretary kerry said, after president abbas made this move, he said it's completely premature to write off the process, said the parties are in touch with each other and will continue b but how do you read this particular development by president abbas? >> i think it is premature to write it off. i think they will find a way at the last minute to resuscitate at least the talks. not an agreement, but an agreement to talk. i think what abbas is trying to do here is to insist that the pre-conditions for even sitting down at the table be fulfilled, and i think he is responding to and israeli decision to delay a prisoner release but there's also a complicated technical issue about which prisoners exactly will israel agree to release. the israelis say that they did not agree to release palestinian citizens of israel as part of

the pre-conditions for these peace talks, and abbas is insisting they do exactly that. >> woodruff: you're saying he did this because this is one piece of leverage? >> i think he's using it as leverage, but he's trying to demonstrate that he, too, has an alternative in case the process does fail, not just to get talks started but to show there's a plan b for the palestinians. >> woodruff: let's talk about another interesting piece in all of this, the disclosure a few days ago that -- or the understanding that, shibley telhami, that the obama administration is considering the release of jonathan pollard. >> that's -- >> woodruff: how do you read that? >> that came as a surprise to me, in part, you know, because not every white house has been reluctant to do so for over 20 years. the national security agencies of the u.s. are opposed to it. they see it as a traitor who has

betrayed america and the u.s. has paid a price. they didn't want to link him to negotiations in the peace process. i always felt that he could be used as a card, but only when there is a real major crisis, because it's a big price politically for the president, or at least internally, not so much politically, but more within the national security bureaucracies, and i think that the fact that they appear to be considering it, maybe even using it, tells you that there was a real crisis. i think it tells you something about how at least secretary kerry led the immediate situation there, that he needed to use this particular card now. >> woodruff: aaron david miller, you've written you think it's a terrible idea. >> i do. i think that, look, if you're going to tell me that we're prepared to release jonathan pollard, at least up for parole in 2015, for something significant and consequential, an agreement on borders for releasing pollard, fine.

at the end of the road pollard will be thrown into the deal. the palestinians have their own benefits and something the israelis want, fine, but to trade jonathan pollard for extension of the talks or settlement freeze that will be observed more in the breach or practice, makes it look weak and desperate. it's a bad idea, unwise, makes a miracle look bad and won't advanced it. >> woodruff: you believe there are no circumstances under which he should be released? >> if the president of the united states makes a judgment that jonathan pollard, ill, mentally unwell, having served a long time wants to be released on humanitarian grounds, do it, but don't conflict it with peace and undermine the intelligence in the process.

>> woodruff: what about it? i think if there's a humanitarian reason to release jonathan pollard, it makes sense for the united states to get something for it on top of that and to use this card, which is a wasting asset becausel because s eligible for release within the next year or so anyway, and is ill. so i think it makes sense, if the united states has enough legal grounds to do this, if the president decides that it's okay after having served so long in prison for a very serious crime, then we should also play the card for something that's worth doing, which is preserving the peace talks. >> woodruff: just to keep the talks going, you would say that -- >> absolutely. because i think they can do it without this. >> i don't agree. i think if you're going to get something for pollard, get something consequential and significant. extension of talks which fail to close the gaps on core issues is

going to simply prolong the problem that we face and, two or three months from now, he will ask for something else without sufficient progress. >> woodruff: briefly. on this issue, if you are getting a real total settlement freeze, that's one thing because that would make it possible to have real negotiations, but if you're only getting some "restraint" and settlement goes on, it's too h heavy a price to pay. >> woodruff: thank you all three, aaron david miller, shibley telhami and david pollock. thank you. >> ifill: again, the other major developments of the day. president obama announced that 7.1 million people signed up for health insurance, before last night's deadline. and lawmakers pressed general motors' new c.e.o. mary barra on why the automaker took ten years to recall vehicles with faulty ignition switches. she vowed it won't happen again.

>> woodruff: on the newshour online right now, many americans dream of retiring to the sunbelt where they can enjoy their work- free years on the golf course or in the swimming pool. but financially, seniors may want to consider trading their sunglasses for mittens and head to alaska, based on data from the national institute on retirement security. see where your state ranks for overall financial security for seniors. explore an interactive map on our health page. all that and more is on our web site, newshour.pbs.org. >> ifill: and that's the newshour for tonight. on wednesday, judy has an exclusive interview with christine lagarde, head of the international monetary fund, on ukraine, russia and more. i'm gwen ifill. >> woodruff: and i'm judy woodruff, we'll see you on-line, and again here tomorrow evening. for all of us here at the p.b.s. newshour, thank you and good night. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by:

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this is "nightly business report" with tyler mathisen and susie gharib. >> did you review the documents gm submitted to the committee? >> no, i did not. there were over 200,000. drama on the hill. a tough outing for general motors ceo as lawmakers pressed her about why it took a decade to recall cars with defective parts. but did her answers satisfy investors and drivers? i believe the market is rigged. i believe you're part of rigging. >> drama on the street. is wall street rigged? the debate stopped trading midday at the new york stock exchange today. all this as the s&p rallies to an all-time high. but will earning