>> rose: welcome to the program. tonight senator john mccain just back from a trip overseas talking about u.s. options in ukraine. >> 20th century was the american century and i hope that 21st century will be as well. we lead, we lead and they will then. right now you and i know that the europeans aren't going to impose sanctions. we're saying if you're going to do business with these banks they're not going to do business with us. in other words a firm strong message to vladimir putin that we're not going to sit by and watch him restore the russian empire. >> rose: we conclude with a series of conversations with internet entrepreneurs talking

with ken lerer and his son ben lerer about lerer ventions. >> i like building my company more than investing. i like doing it because i get to work with him and the team lv and ultimately it keeps me seeing things. i think when you start a company and you're building your business you think that you are the center of the universe and your company's the center of the universe and getting to invest gives me access to all these amazing people where i get to step outside of the vacuum of realists and see all these other businesses that ultimately make me smarter. >> sometimes experience trumps brains. and so i'm able to look at an issue and go back in the files in my brain and i've seen a lot for better or worse and i'm able to say here's what's going to happen. and that's kind of what i bring to the table. but i can't keep up with him in a deep, in a big dive on a business issue about his company

or about a lot of the companies that we back. that's his job. >> rose: senator john mccain and internet entrepreneurs ken and ben lerer when we continue. >> there's a saying around here: you stand behind what you say. around here, we don't make excuses, we make commitments. and when you can't live up to them, you own up and make it right. some people think the kind of accountability that thrives on so many streets in this country has gone missing in the places where it's needed most. but i know you'll still find it, when you know where to look.

captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: john mccain is here. he's been the republican senator for arizona since 1987 senate committee on arms services and foreign relations. he's been a critic of the administration of ukraine's policy consistently advocating tougher sanctions against russia. he's just returned. president joe biden is in ukraine and spoke earlier today. >> we call on russia to stop supporting men hiding behind masks in unmarked uniforms sewing unrest in eastern ukraine. we have been clear that more

provocative behavior by russia will lead to more costs and to greater isolation. >> rose: the pentagon announced today it would send 600 additional troops to poland in the baltic states for training exercises. the united states has also pledged additional 50 million in aid to ukraine including funds to help run the president's election due on may 25th. meanwhile president obama is in japan on the first leg of his asian tour, i'm pleased to have john mccain back at this table. welcome. >> thank you charlie. >> rose: i did not mention you were the nominee of your party for president. >> thank you for not mentioning that. >> rose: was it a bad experience? >> well, you know. politicians have lines, you know. after i lost i slept like a baby, excellent two -- slept to hours and began to cry. that's an old one. >> rose: you just got back.

>> yes from maldolva and the ball particulars. they're very very nervous because maldova, is eastern part of maldova russian troops have been there for years. the question is what does vladimir putin do now. does he continue unfolding unrest there in the east. etcetera awfully hard for the government to function and get their economy in order and all these things. or does he go across the south and take odessa which is important to him or maldova and he continues to foment discontent and uprising and little green men. it makes it's very difficult for

the government to function and how difficult is it for them to have free and fair elections with the little green men running all over the place in eastern ukraine. >> rose: how do you stop him? >> let me tell you how far off base this administration is. they said they would not give them defensive weapons. they said they would give them meals ready to eat. they wouldn't even fly them in on u.s. aircraft. they had to use trucks on u.s. military aircraft. they used trucks because they didn't want to provoke vladimir putin. it's crazy. haven't we figured him out yet. isn't this guy continues to upset us whether it be snowden or whether it be these

activities in yes or no ukraine or other places in the world. so the first thing, charlie, is understand vladimir putin for what he is and act accordingly. the same way ronald reagan understood breshnev. anyway, go ahead. >> rose: or ronald reagan understood gorbachev. >> yes. >> rose: here's the question for me. i suspect people in the whitehouse understand, i don't think they believe he's anything other than what he is. the question is not understanding him, the question is what are you presented -- prepared to do to stop him. >> yes but first you have to understand him. they keep pushing the reset button charlie. vladimir when i'm re-elected i'll be more flexible. what does that mean. >> rose: that's a line. he was talking about -- >> but see tell vladimir i'll be more flexible. there is nothing that vladimir would like to hear more than we're going to be flexible. what have we done in light of

the absorption of crimea into russia? we have sanctioned 11 people and one bony. -- and one bank. do you think that vladimir putin will see that, that will somehow return, of course not. >> rose: what would john mccain as president be doing at this moment when he marched into crimea, would you have said you've got to get your troops out of crimea or we will act in a way that will punish you? >> i would do a long series of steps. helping ukraine become energy independent. >> rose: how long does that take. >> well probably takes a couple three years. >> rose: in the meantime. >> well you got to plan for it. and there are things other ways we can do to help them. lithuania is just like getting energy from sweden and offshore

natural gas establishment. they are able to do it. we can do it if we want to. second, make it clear to vladimir putin that we will provide these people with weapons with which to defend themselves. if vladimir putin moves further into ukraine from eastern ukraine, i would at least give them the ability to defend themselves. putin's calculation is what is the cost for my taking further action. so far it's been none. >> rose: so far he has the ammunition to restore russia to greatness without necessarily acquiring everything that used to be part of russia or part of the warsaw pact. then can we ration. >> it looks like we work more closely with the nato members. >> rose: isn't the president trying to do that, work more

closely with the nato members. >> i don't see any indication of it. he refused to fly mres in because it provocative i don't think they're doing a hell of a lot. >> rose: you don't worry about provoking vladimir putin. >> if vladimir putin needs to be provoke. i mean, it's crazy. the only thing that vladimir putin understands is peace through strength. peace through strength. pardon me. >> rose: acquisition through strength. >> yes. >> rose: and he believes he uses his proximity geographically and troops on the border. >> look, i'm not saying it's easy and obviously, by the way i wouldn't keep saying don't worry we're not going to have american boots on the ground. i would let him figure it out. we're not but i wouldn't keep saying it. but he's got to understand that there are all kinds of repercussions. we're the most powerful nation in the world by any measure. russia is a gas station

masquerading as a country. and so for us to get short term and long term programs to make sure that vladimir putin knows that this kind of adventurism there's a price for it. the president is saying do it or what. or what, mr. vice president. more sanctions? more people. another bank. >> rose: john mccain would say or what, john mccain would say deeper sanctions with respect to iran. >> sanctions, military exercises. moving our troop positioning. >> rose: define weaponry to ukrainians. >> absolutely. >> rose: what kinds of weapons. >> well, first of all i would give them light weapons which they want and i would give them anti-tank weapons and probably anti-air weapons so they can

defend. if putin moves now across the south, it's not going to stop him. there's absolutely nothing to stop him. so why not say we're going to give these people the ability to defend them says. when russia invaded afghanistan if you recall we started throwing weapons to afghanistan. is that an exact parallel? no. when ronald ronald reagan saide was a missile in russian you can recall there were hundreds of theuses of people demonstrating against it but he understood peace restraint and that's what we have to do. and it's so frustrating honestly to talk to these people. >> rose: these people meaning the whitehouse? >> no, in moldova and the baltics. putin is putting all kinds of pressure on the baltics right now moldova particularly they are extremely nervous because

they don't have the protection of article 5 of the north atlantic treaty. >> rose: if ukraine were part of nato we would have been committed by treaty. >> we would have been. and to be honest with you, if we didn't do it, that's the end of nato. that is the end. and frankly i'm not sure what this president would have done if ukraine had been part of nato. >> rose: what do you think is his philosophy. >> putin? >> rose: no, obama. >> the president. >> rose: what do you think he says as his ingame here. >> i don't think the president believes in american exceptionalism. he won the nomination by going against the war in iraq. he gained the presidency on the pledge we would get out of all these wars, etcetera. >> rose: do you know he won the presidency or the non-nation. >> he won the nomination because

of his vote against. but once he came to the presidency he wanted to get out. the tide of war is preceding we'll be out by 2017. every time he announced a mild surge, he also announced that we're leaving. >> rose: don't people support that? >> the american people need to be led. >> rose: don't they support? don't poland say they were really tired of the war of afghanistan and they wanted to get out of both iraq and afghanistan had public support of that policy. >> absolutely. and the public supported the policy after the vietnam conflict. we lost 55,000 young men in the vietnam war, a very large number. but nernses -- americans need o be led and two they need to understand what's at stake here and this president does not believe in american

exceptionalism. >> rose: what do you mean by that. >> exceptional nation. 20th century was the american century. and i hope the 21st century will be as well. we lead, we lead and they will then. right now you and i know that the europeans aren't going to impose any real meaningful sanctions on putin. you know that because of the energy issue. but the president should step forward and say look we're going to do this. and if you do business with these banks they're not going to do business with us. in other words, a firm strong message to vladimir putin that we're not going to sit by and watch him restore the russian empire. >> rose: you're saying you have to pay a price if you don't follow us here we're going to lead but if you don't follow us you're going to pay the consequences ie in terms of your own trade policy and your own relationship from an economic standpoint in the united states, the largest economy in the world and a market for your products. >> exactly. and it is incumbent with

technology and things that are happening in the united states as compared with ten years ago, i'm not sure it would be five years before we could get some of the l and g over to them by the way. the excel pipeline we won't talk about. >> rose: what's going to happen on the pipeline, the keystone pipeline. >> a lot of smart people tell me after the elections. >> rose: after the mid terms. >> he's going to turn it down. >> rose: turn it down. >> turn it down. >> rose:s that because they didn't want to support it. >> he told john brass owe in wyoming that he was going to make a decision before the end of the year. look a strategy to counter putin and that will be the end of the putin and the russian empire. that's all we can can do. it's not world war three.

>> rose: do what we did with respect to iran. the economic muscle. and it becomes the principal thing. not only do you spot sanctions against russia but provide the energy that these countries are worried about because they're not going to be able to get it from russia. >> i really believe that right now, i'm probably being repetitious. i'm seeing putin sated in moscow in the kremlin and i see what the response would be so far. you can't help but be encourage. >> rose: let me take you down the road. if that doesn't work, as putin says at this table look the russians are top, they say look we survived leningrad. so don't think you can freeze us to death. don't think you can starve us to death. you can't. we've been there before. >> we tried to do that. >> rose: but at the time me where you go if sanctions don't work. i mean at what point. >> depends on what he does. if he moves forward into say the

baltics which are nato. >> rose: the issue here is ukraine. >> yes. ukraine. i would be making sure they got into the eu and negotiate the imf loan, provide them with defensive weapons. i would stand up for him. i can't tell you charlie, most americans don't understand how much it means to these people when we speak up for him. i once in burma had three guys, two of them 22 years in prison, some 18 years in prison and they came out and said knowing senator mccain you spoke up for us while we were in promise i been. they spent 22 years in prison. it meant a lot to them. right now vladimir putin and the russians, this is very important charlie. right now they have a total corner on the market in propaganda into eastern ukraine and other parts of the ukraine. and they are literally removing

any television stations that might have a different viewpoint. it's a wash with russian propaganda. we've got to get into the business of radio free europe and use the new technologies that we have, twitter, facebook, all of these. right now putin is doing a good job of brain washing these people in eastern ukraine. >> rose: this is what michael gordon rote. the abilities of the russian military has displayed are not only important to the high stake drama in ukraine they also have huge implications for the security of mold va, good, central asian nations and the central europe information -- nation that are members of nato. >> he's one of the highly respect writers as you know even if it's the "new york times." a joke, a joke. it's true. it is very true when he's saying

that they will go as far as this, that they get a free ride. >> rose: here's the other argument and this was again from your favorite newspaper the new the "new york times." the tiger of quasi religious nationalism which putin has been riding may now take control. that would make it very hard for putin to stop this conflict where rational calculus would tell him to stop. >> that's right. and i think it's dangerous but again i'm sure this is the fifth time i've said it. he is calculating the cost benefit. he goes into moldova and nothing happens to him and takes away where they've got 1400 russian troops just move into moldova and he's scott free. then he's going to be encouraged particularly in the baltics. they really have two areas that the russians feel so strongly about. one is the baltics and the other

is ukraine. they are going to do, if they can get away with it, what's necessary. >> rose: peter baker again from the "new york times" said while mr. putin seems to now be enjoying the globe of success he will discover how much economic harm he's brought on his country which obama's aides noted the fall of the capital flight of the country and re-electance of foreign investors to expand deals. that's what the whitehouse is saying. >> that's foolish. yes, the economy is hurting somewhat. put instance popularity has sky rocketed. >> rose: the way he did in the crimea. >> sure. to say listen don't worry let this guy dismember nations because over time, he's going to fail. when kind of logic is that. >> rose: let me turn to another area. this is where it's related to this because it's a sense of how you see the president. syria. more and more people say what you tried to argue.

more and more people tell me that they really missed an opportunity several years ago which you believe and you argued for. where is syria today in your judgment, giving you credit for basically saying we would not be here if we had done more to arm the rebels at a time when we could. it isn't there anymore. >> this is a perfect example of the presidency he doesn't want to give them the weapons they needed. they were winning until 5,000 hezbollah -- all of that was as plain as the nose on your face was going to happen and we watched this thing turn into a regional conflict. extremist groups in syria and iraq. have you looked at iraq lately, it's in chaos. we are now inform providing some

more weapons in the free syrian army but i'm telling you these barrel bombs are horrible. big canisters with all kinds of shrapnel and just kipping people. >> rose: the report of the use of chemical weapons. >> yes. would it surprise you if he was using chlorine gas which is not technically part of the agreement. i believe that history will show that the president's decision on syria not to strike was a moment that were liberated throughout the world. that's why i can tell you i have talked to many foreign leaders who will say that was really a similar moment and they can't totally rely on this. >> rose: that's the point. you draw a red line or somebody cross a red line then your credibility and clearly the saudis and others made it clear.

>> to make the decision he made and then go over to talk to king abdul, what are you going to i is a. i'm sorry king i know you were ready to strike but we didn't even tell you. i mean, it's sad. >> rose: so what is point of this in your harsh judgment of the president. >> i believe that the president does not believe that america is an exceptional nation. if america doesn't lead, other people do lead and it doesn't mean boots on the ground. it doesn't mean there's a whole gamut, the most powerful richest nation in the world can carry out a lot of measures to assert our leadership in the world. and we can do that. and i am convinced that we can but people like vladimir putin. by the way he sanctioned me, you know that. >> rose: i know. when we sanctioned some his friends hion sanctioned. >> yes my spring break in syria

was can dulled. by the way that shows how out of touch they are. didn't vladimir putin understand that was the best thing that could ever happen to me, you know. so we have to lead. and again it means alliances. it means exercises, it means bolstering anyway foe, it men's what's china is doing in the east china sea. >> rose: the president's over there now. >> i think you're going to have to make it very clear to china that the fundamental principle of world affairs is freedom of navigation of other world's oceans. we cannot let them take it over. >> rose: the question always has to be is what are you prepared to do when the rubber meets the ground. >> i agree. what it also means is that if you are prepared, then they calculate this probably isn't

worth it. i mean, the philippines right now, they have one coast guard boat. that's all. so they can't challenge china but more interestingly is the japanese now because of their lack of confidence in us interpreting their constitution in a much more broad fashion. >> rose: become more and a lot of other things looking at whether they should have a stronger military. if they want a nuclear bomb as you know. >> charlie, you ask very good questions and very challenging ones. there's no good options, okay. there's no good options. what options do we have that are least bad and can actually change the world's environment today. and that's what we have to realize. in syria today, tell me a good option in syria. >> rose: what would you do in

syria. >> give them arms and weapons and train them. if syria continues in the way it's going you've got a regional conflict. there are a million refugees in lebanon. you've been to lebanon, i've been there. it's a small country. a million refugees. >> rose: what they have a jordan. >> roughly that amount. >> rose: they can do nothing but destabilize. >> exactly. so we have to be strong, we have to shore up our alliances. we have to take steps that convince the bad people in this world. and there's more than one that we will be prepared to work with our allies to make sure there's a very heavy price if they do things which are gross violation of international norms. by taking crimea, you know. there was a budapest agreement that russia recognized the fact that crimea was part of ukraine. so it's a blatant violation. >> rose: with khrushchev.

>> yes. >> rose: you're good friends with henry kissinger. he had a very interesting program here and talked about russia and knows too well. and i believe he's had conversations with putin since this crises began. he's your friend. >> henry, yes. i've never known a man of an intellect like henry kissinger. >> rose: fair enough. what does he say. he seems to recognize russia has some historic connection with ukraine. >> as much as i admire henry, you can go back in a history of every one of those countries. they were under moldova was under five different empires. austria, ottoman. the back and forth there, they have a claim, the mexicans have a claim to texas. i mean, come on, really when you think about it. so it's not --

>> rose: tell about succeeding from the united states. >> if we get in the business of saying because there's a large russian speaking -- >> rose: i'm asking you about one of the intellects. >> i read henry's piece. >> rose: he came and told me what was going to be in the piece. somehow ukraine exob saying to the russians look we recognize you have an interest here, you know and that people speak russian in certain parts of ukraine. but ukraine has to have certain kinds of neutrality and can be a bridge between the west and the east. >> can't they decide what they want themselves. and what about estonia which has 40% russian speaking citizens. don't russians have a claim to that? they've got to go in and

protect. i went back and looked at adolph hitler's speak -- >> rose: secretary clinton spoke to this idea and had to clarify what she meant which was not so much comparing him to hitler but saying that people -- i know you're comparing. >> i'm comparing them to hitler. these are most interesting times charlie and i do want to work with the president. my friend, when you go to a refugee cam in jordan and see these thousands of children running around and the woman who is with me says do you see these children here, they're going to take revenge on those people they think refuse to help them. look, repercussions in this is going to go on for decades. >> rose: last thing. your friend john kerry. it looks like all the effort he

put into trying to make some deals in the middle east is not going to work especially with israel and palestinians. >> nor is the so-called geneva conference which was crazy or ludicrous, one of the two. because assad winning is not going to negotiate his departial from power in syria. >> rose: so john shouldn't have done this. >> i think he should have gone to geneva knowing full well -- of course it was a fool's around. bashar assad is winning and he's saying he's going to leave the kind, he's not. >> rose: he's already announced he's going to run for re-election. >> sure, absolutely, absolutely. and so that and the israeli palestinian. and i hate to tell you this but i am not optimistic about the

iron negotiations. in fact i'm very pessimistic. >> rose: why. >> because i don't think the iranians are willing to give up the right to enrich and they have continued to have the centrifuges spin. and they i think one of their strategies may be just get right next to the nuclear weapon, get right next to it so that a matter of a few weeks you can build it. >> rose: there are some other countries. >> by the way, these are the same people that are flying in weapons to bashar assad, the same people that sent the iranian revolutionary guard into syria. >> rose: you favor denying their ambassador. >> oh, sure that's a no brainer. >> rose: finally this. a republican's going to win control of the senate in 2014. >> i don't know. because you and i in 2010 were having a little chat and i said we're going to take the senate.

so it depends on i think candidates matter and campaigns matter. >> rose: thank you for can coming, pleasure to see you. >> thanks charlie. >> rose: john mccain from arizona. back in a moment, stay with us. >> rose: ken lerer and his son ben is here. ken is co-founder and former chairman of the huffington post and ben is co-founder and they started lerer vches. the strategy was simple, use ben's connection in the start up world to fund the best ideas using ken's connections in the finance world. as "new york" magazine said ben knew the people who had the ideas and ken knew the people who had the money. the funded many companies. i'm please to do have both of them at this table for the first time and i tell you i insisted they both come together with some reluctance father was

finally coerced into coming. >> that's a fair appraisal of what happened. >> very fair. >> well, what you do for your children. >> rose: exactly. ken and i also are part of a group that meets and has some really wonderful people and we see each other that way as well. i just want to tell people this story because it's one of the dumbest things that i have done recently in my life. one day you and i were walking in to lunch and you had just invested a lot of money in facebook. and i remember it was $16 a share. >> 19. >> rose: 19, okay. and i thought damn i should go and do exactly what he has done. what is it now? >> it went down the last couple weeks. it got to 70 and i think it's at 60 now. i can't remember whose idea that was. >> rose: was it your idea.

>> i'm trying to remember. >> i'll give it to him. >> rose: all right. so growing up tell me what it was like growing up with this guy as your father. >> well, terrible. we always, i think only in the last few years have i really been able to sort of appreciate how lucky i was. there was a lot i got to soak up just being sort of around the dinner table. that ultimately has really driven the way i think about business which is that forever now that i work with him, the question that he asks me about business are actually not business related. they are about, they are what makes me happy. he's really focused on sort of me enjoying life and not the business questions that i think it really helps sort of shape the way i think about going to work and ultimately drives me to

maker sure that i'm making the right decisions for my family and not for the company. >> rose: did you want to be a venture capitalists because he was. >> i don't necessarily want to be a venture capitalist at all. >> rose: what do you want to be. >> i like building my company more than i like investing. i think investing, i like doing it because i get to work with him and the team lv and it kees me seeing things when you start a company and building a business you think are the center of the universe and your company is the center of the universe and getting to invest gives me access to all these amazing people where i get to step outside of the vacuum of realists and see all these other businesses that ultimately make me smart. >> rose: what is it. >> we're a media focused business. our belief is today digital provides an amazing opportunity to, if you think about print or

you think about radio, if you think about television or you think about outdoor traditional media businesses, the transaction doesn't happen in those mediums and digital's the first place where content is consumed the same place someone can pull out their credit card and make a purchase. our belief is media and commerce are going to come together in a very very real way. and so we've built a series of media businesses and media brands that help guys figure out how they spend their time and money in categories they care about. and ultimately the model is to not just provide content but also to figure out what products these guys might buy and actually fulfill that transaction. >> rose: this has got to be fun for you. >> it's great fun. >> rose: you have your son there and able to see him and talk about business. >> and my daughter's in business too. well here's the thing, okay. he's smarter than me, seriously. and my daughter who just joined

the firm is smarter than me. but i have more experience than them. and i've learned that sometimes experience trumps brains. and so i'm able to look at an issue and go back in the files in my brain and i've seen a lot for better or worse and i'm able to say here's what's going to happen. and that's kind of what i bring to the table. but i can't keep up with him in a deep, in a big dive on a business issue about his company or about a lot of the companies that we back. and his jobs. >> rose: what's your core competence? >> well, i think, i'm not sure i have one but i'm pretty good at looking at a complicated set of issues and pouring it into a funnel and i'm pretty good at coming out with the nugget.

that's what i've always done and i'm pretty good at that. i have no idea why. >> rose: the nugget is the essence of. and how to mobilize the idea. >> the nugget is here's the bottom line. here's what it's all about. and here is how, and here's what we should do. >> rose: and take me then to huffington post. >> huffington post, the other thing i might add is i'm, i like to invest and work on things that are optimists, things that i can understand. >> rose: characteristic of warren buffett. >> well, he's a good model. kerry campaign the drudge report is killing kerry about the vietnam war. and i watched it with great pain. and said to myself why does the drudge report the only guy

around. this makes no since. i learned a long time ago if one person can io this, two people can do it. and that was the essence of the huffington post. >> rose: i heard mike bloomberg say that too. >> so it was very very simple. >> rose: if there is a drudgable effect you can do something else. >> that's exactly why we started the huffington post to be a counter to drudge. period the end. and then it grew. >> rose: i know drudge as well. we've been visited by cbs this morning, come by with the word going public. not going public in terms of an ipo but going public in terms of what we're doing here. what all of us marvel. he captures at the moment people who read his blog >> i'll tell you about that. they teach you at journalism

school a triangle and they teach you what the subject is up at the top. the key was drudge and at the beginning the key at huffington post was i would go to the 13th paragraph of the "new york times" story and i would 2350eu7bd the headline in the 13th paragraph and put it on top. that's not what they teach you at columbia journalism school but it made for great digit al content nine years ago. >> rose: how did you know how to do that? >> i guess based on what i was doing previously in my life. i had a fact for it so that's what i did at the huffington post op until obama won and then i pulled back. >> rose: buzz feed. >> that grew out of the huffington post one of my partners, a very smart guy. not having a great time being a little bored wanting to try a whole bunch of tech projects. and we didn't want him to leave so i said to him here's an idea.

start your own company and we'll back you and that's what he did. and buzz feed is now a great big company. >> rose: great big company. >> bigger than huffington post. >> rose: wow. >> yes. yes. >> rose: way bigger. >> yes. >> rose: and so you came out. and did you want to start a business because, i mean you lived in a business environment, it's what was talked about, politics, politics, technology, business, media, right. >> yes. not so much technology growing up. i think you know, honestly i didn't think a whole lot about what i wanted to do. and i went and worked at a boutique hotel company for two years out of college. we had the idea for thrillus because i wished there was a better city guide for me. my mother and me read the same city god and didn't think it made a lot of sense. wanted to build it for myself. i guess when i sort of went to my dad and my mom hey i have this idea, they were as supportive as could be and said

do it. like why not. >> rose: an interesting thing too, i don't know if you saw it the other day they ran a media company where the son and daughter, the son of murdock, the son of ralph roberts, the son of dolan, all. >> right. there's something b i actually talked about david carr about that piece. there's something about media companies where it can be quite personal. and i can understand how the family would want to continue in that company, i get that. >> rose: graham's as well. >> yes. because it is personal, it is a point of view. i get that. >> rose: and then at the same time in some cases i mean bryan roberts started laying cable

line. >> right. >> rose: his father don graham started the same thing. >> yes. >> rose: captain graham continued after him. i mean it's an interesting thing. and i remember my father was a merchant and he would like nothing better than if i had said i'm coming back and work in the company business. there's no way for me because i was in love with media. >> i have a ball working with benjamin and izzy, i really do. >> rose: and have both of them there. >> it's fun, it really is. >> rose: tell me how you guys see the future. here we are with so much going on. we know, and i just talked to larry page at ted conference as you know. just to talk to him you get excited about what's happening. in terms of where all the things that google is doing, same thing if you talk to facebook, same thing if you talk to amazon who

i recently did a 60 minute piece on. these people are doing interesting things. these are big companies. you look at instagram and you look at so many different companies it's the most exciting time for entrepreneurship. >> it's extraordinary. and my day is spent working with everybody under 30. with entrepreneurs who come in and say i have a great idea, they do or they don't to take the meeting and it's enormous fun to give them some money where they can go pursue their idea. >> rose: you are right what percentage of the time? >> what's right mean? >> rose: well right means that it is a sustainable business model that will make money. >> within the fund, we're doing quite well. we see, we probably invest in one in, what, 25 companies, one in 50 companies that we see. so we're very select but so far so good. >> rose: the common denominator of all of them is

what. >> the people. >> the people. >> rose: what do you know. >> you sit across the table from somebody. >> rose: and you know. >> you know. we sit across the table from so many people again and again that over time hopefully you get a sort of better gut for knowing the person's going to figure it out. there's a lot of business ideas that people come and pitch are not great, are not perfect or maybe the market isn't something we're in love with. >> rose: more than your money they need business. >> so you shake hands with the person, you look the person in the eye. you take a measurement of the person. you say this person, do i want to be partners with this person. and then if you get past that, you say can this person give it. because i've never seen an idea that starts out at x and ends in x. it always ends at some other letter in the alphabet. and that's the real key. can the person pivot when they come up against a brick wall. >> rose: has the huffington post changed. >> it's changed a lot.

>> rose: how has it change from the vision you had? >> well, i had a very small vision to produce an alternative to drudge. we then instituted verticals which is a very good move and we did sports and whatever else. and then it was time to sell and it was a good sell and it was the right time. i've not been in touch with it at all but it's gotten very big and sometimes big doesn't allow you to be as focused as you can when you're small. so i think it's -- >> rose: also global. >> and it's globalment and they have a lot of verticals. and it's still a great property but for me it doesn't have the passion that it once had thing i was doing politics there. but it's s incredibly successful. she's done a great job. >> rose: why did you pick her. >> maybe we picked each other. she invited me at a gathering at her house which was very out of character for me to say yes.

kind of like coming here. but i did it. >> rose: you did it for your son. >> that's right. i did it for my son. >> rose: thank you. >> i saw her moving and doing what she does and i said to myself she's drudge. >> rose: yes, she's drudge. >> it was like that. >> rose: see those are insights that you don't know. you can't teach that. it'sicurt of what your life experience has been. bill murray said an amazing thing to me during a conversation which got a thousand comments about. basically he said you just have to be alive and alert, alive and alert. that's how you to live your life. >> why i started to have a part, i was talking to norman lear. he's a buddy. he says this is what you do. you set up an office. you don't disappear you're going to talk to people. ideas will come across your

desk. grab one that you love and do it. >> rose: and that was it. >> that was it. about you it was great advice, great advice. >> rose: what's influencing for both of you. i'll start with you ben. in terms of what's out there changing the world. obviously mobile is changing the world more than anything i assume and the cloud is changing. those two things don't you think. >> well yes, i think for what we see mobile, just the way all of us, how it changed all of our lives. it's unbelievable. mobile is probably the biggest trend that we continue to invest into and the thing that we see, the best idea coming in around. everything has to be noble first it's not really the second screen anyone. it's why everything's happening. >> rose: what would you say? >> i would say that we're in a time just like 1981 to 1984.

benjamin will remember that time because i think he was born in 1981. all right. so cable industry. distribution is done. pendulum swings back to content. all the cable networks were founded between those years all started by entrepreneurs and sold to big media companies. right there with digital. all the distribution is done. it's all done. all of the social feeds are built out. content now is extremely interesting. now it has to be mobile first but it's content content content right now. and it's very exciting. i love content and that's a great place to invest. >> rose: just the content. >> the architecture's all there. >> it really sets at the core of this. facebook is the most interesting company in the world right now i think. i do. >> rose: i think google's the most interesting. >> google may be the most interesting but tides are moving

for facebook. it's become a mar more effective marketing than google. >> rose: because they learned how to advertise on mobile. >> i agree both of you. i think google is the most interesting company facebook is synonymous for the internet for generations coming on-line. >> rose: this is interesting i'm much older than both of you. it is the idea that a lot of people it is said young people are looking elsewhere other than facebook. >> they are. and snapchat's an interesting company and there are a lot of interesting companies but for the moment facebook is it. that doesn't mean in four years from now they're going to be it but right now they are. >> rose: billion, whatever the number is, three. >> and the fact they own other interesting companies. they really just i think sit at the sort of the center of human communication. >> rose: what do you think of the internet of everything?

this whole idea of nest google bought nest. >> yes did. >> we blend in. we have half a dozen investments. we're little guys. we have half a dozen investments in the internet of things and they're all doing quite well. and it too sorry to be repetitive. it's obvious. it's inevitable. i work with michael milken a long time ago and he taught me one great thing. he didn't teach me by talking to me. i learned it by watching him. he looked at big trends and he invested in trends and he invested in the obvious. and that really has stuck with me. it makes an enormous amount of sense. >> rose: so the obvious here was first the internet per se. then it was search and then it was social media and then it was apps. >> mobile. >> rose: mobile, right.

and then the cloud came so you could do all kinds of things. >> when you look back on it, you're going to go all right, that's pretty obvious, what's the big deal. >> rose: so you bought jack threads.com. bass that. >> jack threads when we bought it was a small men's retailer on-line clothing accessories. the reason we thought it was interesting for us, i discovered them because they were an advertising. they were advertising because we covered them editorially and the guise they required through the coverage was big buyers, big spenders, big forwarders. exactly the core they were going for and it made a lot of sense because our users were lien forward, we were getting service content figuring out how to spend their time and money and jack threads was the supply to demand we were creating and ultimately i think we were naive and said we can't get into

commerce and bought chapters and they're a very low company and we can make a buyer into a reader or reader into a buyer just by guise. >> rose: what do you think of twitter. >> twitter's going through a hard time right now at least in the market and they have a long way to go to, they is -- have a long way to do. the lock up is up in about three weeks so the stock's going to be a rollercoaster and we'll know better in the next year how the guys who are running it do. i think it's a spectacular service whether it's going to be a massive service, i don't know yet. >> rose: i think you would be just enchanted by the political imfact. >> i'm enchanted by the political impact that doesn't mean -- >> rose: you'll invest in that. >> yes. >> rose: but you're enchanted by the political impact. >> and the impact it has in

politics and government and they've adopted it and people talk through it paul the time. i'm amazed, amazed. but they need to break out of that to people beyond that to be massive company. i think they probably will but it's not clear to me how at this point. >> rose: thank you, ben, nice to see you. thank you ken, a pleasure. >> thank you. captioning sponsored by rose communications

captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

man: it's like holy mother of comfort food.ion. woman: throw it down. it's noodle crack. woman: you have to be ready for the heart attack on a platter. man: okay, i'm the bacon guy. man: oh, i just did a jig every time i dipped into it. man #2: it just completely blew my mind. woman: it felt like i had a mouthful of raw vegetables and dry dough. sbrocco: oh, please. i want the dessert first! [ laughs ] i told him he had to wait.