>> rose: welcome to the program. we begin this evening with the mayor of new york, bill de blasio. >> if we have a consensus, an effective consensus, that early childhood education is an extraordinary difference maker and a foundation for people to succeed in the modern economy, that wasn't going to happen unless it became a focal point of government, and in particular, in my case, of a particular elected official who had the ability to create the momentum. it wasn't going to happen because of some broad public discourse or consensus that emerged. so this is where the role of government becomes so important to catalyze, to take us to places that will set up our future more effectively. that doesn't happen without aggressive leadership, and the inequality crisis, let's face it, has grown in front of our

eyes without a lot of response, bluntly, especially from washington. for all of us downstream, cities and states, we have to create our own responses. bluntly, particularly mayor. >> you're saying you have to do more at state and local level because washington is engaged in some kind of gridlock and is not able to do the kind of responsibility it has been doing in the past. >> correct. and it's the polar opposite of what i grew up with in the 60s and 70s, assuming the federal government was actually the progressive standard bearer, the good change agent, the force that intervened to help fix a problem that was going unaddressed. >> rose: we conclude can actor kevin spacey. >> as long as people have stories to tell and people want to hear stories theater will be alive and well. it was a great experience for me to be able to try to capture. and the thing i think i'm most pleased about in terms of this film, although sam and i are the center of it, what you really do get a chance to do is meet a whole group of journeymen actors

and actresse actresses who aren. this is what they've dedicated their lives to doing and they are the heart and soul of what makes theater fantastic. >> rose: deblawzio and spacey when we continue. >> there's a saying around here: you stand behind what you say. around here, we don't make excuses, we make commitments. and when you can't live up to them, you own up and make it right. some people think the kind of accountability that thrives on so many streets in this country has gone missing in the places where it's needed most. but i know you'll still find it, when you know where to look.

captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: bill de blasio is here. is the 109th and current mayor of new york city. he has served in that role since january 12014. in doing so he became the first democrat to hold the office in 20 years. he won a landslide victory taking 73% of the vote. we're pleased to have him at this table for the first time, welcome. >> thank you, charlie. >> rose: you've watched other mayors. tell me about the job and what surprises you about being mayor? the challenge of it? the fun of it? >> it's a very fun job because it's endlessly fascinating. my stietz i have 8.4 million constituents and they expect me

to connect with them the way a small-town mayor would and that's the interesting tradition in new york city. there's an intimacy amidst the huge scale. and i think that's wonderful. i think it's great on the subway people say, "hey, bill, good job," or they want to talk about something, have an issue, agree with this, disagree with that. i love that connection and i love the fact that what i do i can see if it's working or not. >> rose: if i come back in four years and talk to you, what will you have accomplished? >> i said from the beginning i wanted to fight the inequality. it's a tale of two cities that needs mending, that needs healing that has to become more of a commonality. i think the notion of addressing honestly the fact that there's an inequality that doesn't conform to our economic values. and made more intense from the economic crisis of the last five or six years. way to judge me is do i change that reality in any appreciable way. the thins we've started with-- paid sick leave to half a

million more new yorkers. getting prek and after-school programs. addressing inequality is not just economics, in terms of social crisis, the relationship between police and community over the stop and frisk issue, healing that wound. all of these are measures of whether we really did something that affected the ipequality crisis. our big affordable housing plans, enough to house almost half a million people. in four years what, i want to be able to say is here what's we started aggressively, boldly, and here are real, tangible results right now and other things that are quickly coming up over the horizon that actually get to that core of these inequality challenges and show that in fact in the democratic process we can start to mend some of those problems and reverse course in the sense of going toward equality. >> rose: how much of it is a government responsibility and how much of is somehow to inspire the private sector to be in the business of creating jobs

and to be in the business of creating companies? >> i think it's all of the above by definition. i think there are a lot of people in the private sector in this town who are very conscious of this this challenge and want to do something about it. this is the ultimate city of entrepreneurs and hard-scrabble folks who work their ways up -- >> from all over the world. >> from all over the world like my grandparents who came from southern italy. there is a lot people in this town who remember what it is to be struggling and want to help others and i want to encourage that. there's the tech sector with a social consciousness helping a generation of folks to get the education for the future. there's a lot to work with. i believe the role of government is to be a cat list, to create an environment for some of the changes we need, and in that, i think government has to be aggressive and creative. in new york city we're blessed because we have a strong

government. we have a lot of tools at our disposal, and pre-k is a great example. i don't think we would have gotten to pre-k simply if the public debate had been left to its own. there was a broad realize of early childhood education -- >> you mean you had to have a commitment to an idea and you had to make sure it was front and center and to make sure this is where government was going to do something to make a difference. >> you said it perfectly and there had to be a relentlessness. we had a consensus that early childhood education is an extraordinary difference maker and a way to succeed in the economy, that wasn't going to happen unless it became a focal point of government-- and in my case, an elected official who had the ability to create that momentum. it wasn't going to happen simply because of some public discourse or consensus that emerged. so this is where the role of government becomes so important, to catalyze, to take us to places that will set up our future more effectively. that doesn't happen without

aggressive leadership. and the inequality crisis, let's face it, has grown, in front of our eyes, without a lot of response-- bluntly, especially from washington. for all of us downstream in cities and states, we have to innovate our own responses-- bluntly, i think mayors in particular have to. >> rose: if i understand you you're saying you have to do more at the state and local level because washington is engaged in some kind of gridlock and is not able to do the kind of responsibility it has been doing in the past. >> correct. and it's the polar opposite of what i grew up with in the 60s and 70s, assuming the federal government was actually the progressive standard bearer, the good-change agent, the force that interveepped to help fix a problem that was going unaddressed. now, in fact, it is localities first, and to a substantial extent, states as well, that have to address the real conditions that people are living through. if you lobby at what's happened to the middle class, simple example, decline of wages and benefits, decline of real earnings and real spending power. right now, we at the local level

are pushing i think some of the most powerful ideas to address this. in my case it's things like paid six leave and pre-k, and affordable housing. i'm impressed what's happening around the country raising minimum wage levels . >> rose: $10.10. >> in the case of seattle they're talking about $15 which i think is an important initiative. >> rose: would $15 be better in your judgment? >> look, i think right now it depends on the city. the higher cost cities i think the higher you can go the better. the combination of the cities in the position to formalize a higher wage and the cities like us that are in a position to help, for example, the fast food workers, a big national movement. i don't have the power as mayor in this particular state toy%7@& mandate a minimum wage locally. i have the power to go out and help the fast food workers win a higher wage. >> rose: i want to talk about unions and pensions and all of that but let's talk about albany. prek, you went to albany looking for a five-year commitment and you wanted to raise taxes.

what did the governor say? the governor was clear with me in the beginning-- he had been more reticent raising taxes. >> rose: what's the difference between the two of you in terms of how you look at raising taxes on the upper income. >> we have a lot of similar origins. we first met trying to help homeless folks and ultimately worked together at u.s. department of housing and urban development. i think at this point, look, i'm a believer we have to address some of these challenges of inequality head on, and i don't think it's inappropriate to tax those who have done well to achieve some of the things we have to. >> rose: you think it's appropriate to raise the taxes of the wealthiest among us, the 1%, or whatever percentage it is-- >> in my proposal it was folks who made a half million or more for five years to achieve prek and after-school program. >> rose: and that income would go directly or some other mechanism? >> no, it would literally go to the city to fund pre-k and

after-school programs and that kind of proposal i think is necessary now. i'm thrilled to say albany found another way to fund it, and that is good. but i think if you ask the bigger ideological question, you're certainly seeing this in cities around the country, more and manufacture of us have come to the conclusion we cannot fight a growing inequality crisis with the same previous approachs. the status quo approach was not going to lead to change. we have to do something different. you're going to sea cee this play out intensely in the next couple of months. >> rose: in terms of elections. >> i face what other narrs are facing. i went in december to the white house. the president convened a group of new mayors, those electe elen 2013. we went around-- it was primarily democrats, a few republicans, different-sized cities, all over the country, different reelingses. the commonality around the room-- everyone was recognizing and acting on a deepening inequality crise. many talked.

a poverty and unaffordability crise in their cities. and they are they were deciding togetherue could see the consensus in the room we had to act-- in the absence of federal action we had to act-- each city is doing it a little differently but each city realized it had power to act that previously wasn't utilizeed and if we didn't act who was. >> rose: who is going to fight you on affordable housing? >> i don't think it will be fought per se. i think the history in new york city is the developers, real estate community having a fairly favorable set of groundrules from government and we're going to be respectful and honest brokers but i've said very clearly we're upping the ante. we have to get more, for example, affordable housing. more hiring of local residents. at this point with the economic dynamics, we need construction, for example, to create more jobs for people who haven't had as much economic opportunity in new york city. >> rose: you obviously had the support of a lot of unions who helped you win, both in terms of people on the ground on election day as well as support and a lot of people wonder what unions

will demand of you and what will they expect from you. and how do you answer that? >> i think the fact is that although i've had a very positive and philosophically kindred dynamic with the labor movement, labor's a very diverse constituency. a lot of individual unions, in fact, did not endorse me in the democratic primary. and what i've said to people is, look, it's not about do we agree on every issue, it's about the fact i honor the history and meaning of the labor unit and i think there's a natural partnership to make this city work. for example, i said as we approach our new contract process, we need cost savings. i'm a progressive and believe in labor and the role of government and i said we need cost saving. it's been a very respectful process. let's face it, in a lot of parts of the country, even here in new york, there was a disdain projected by various leaders

towards labor, and it's become a common part of the discourse -- >> was that across the board, do you think, or was that simply teachers' unions more specifically? >> especially towards teachers' unions but in this case in new york city it certainly spread torgs as well quite aggressively. and i think the removal of the negative, the creation of the positive viernlgt respectful environment, and by the way, the fact that my larger goals are to address the very same issues that led to the development of the labor union. this is not a minor matter. i have talked to labor leaders a lot about this. in the end, what i'm appealing to a lot of leaders of labor on is is the very origin of why their unions exist coming out of struggles to get people decent waims and benefits and decent working continues, and from times of economic crisis the 3 specifically the 30s. it has to be fiscally responsible. i'm a progressive but any good

progressive cannot get very fair if they're not fiscally sane. if we're doing prek and paid sick leave, that shows an immediate commonality. >> rose: might they say look we waited 12 years for someone we felt had a kinship with us and it's time for to us get something for that sacrifice? and we helped you, and you should help us? >> i think that is not an unusual thought pattern. i also think there's a real cognizance of how much economic difficulty the city has gone through, of how big a fiscal challenge we had ahead, of how much the things i'm trying to do actually benefit their members in very fundamental ways, very universal ways. prek is going to a lot of the members of the municipal workforce, to their families. so much of what we're doing on the ground-- by the way, so many of the families of our workforce are positively effective because we reduced the tensions between police and community and pulled back the broken stop and fisk

policy. i think there is a growing cognizance that it is not just the narrow conception of what's in a contract. there's something bigger going on, and if they really want to be partners in that for the good of all, they have an opportunity to do something that is actually statesmanlike, and there's an opportunity to do that. >> rose: it seems the times are tough that a mayor and new mayor and who clearly is in a progressive tradition, needs to reach out to all sectors of the community as well. and previous mayors elected pro-business needed to reach out to workers in this city. how do you reach out to the business community? and do you care about earning their confidence, both in terms of expressing who you really are and what you really want to do? >> by definition i care. governance is the process of trying to build a real consensus around a set of ideas and moving forward. and creating some meaningful unity, not just for our present but for our future. pre-k is a great example. i spent a lot of time with

leaders in the business community. i spent a lot of time with folks who happen to be wealthy saying this is in our common interest and even if i'm asking some of you to sacrifice a little bit in the process, this is for the -- >> and their response was? >> a lot of them agreed. some disagreed ideologically, perhaps a view of the nature of taxation, but did not deny that the underlying motivation was a good one and that education was an area we had a lot more work to do on for the future of the city. so, yes, by definition i reach out to the real estate industry, even as i say i'm change the expectations i'm saying we still have to build a lot of things. >> rose: how will life for the real estate business be different than it was from the previous administration? >> in two ways, i hope. one, from the public perspective we will get more done in each of the real estate transactions-- more affordable housing more hiring of local residents, a better set of community benefits. but on the upside for the development community, we're

very devoted to moving these projects quickly. meaning, i don't want some of the roadblocks that have existed in the past because once we lock down fair community benefits and we're going to hire a lot of people, we're going to create a lot of housing, including a lot of affordable housing, it's in my interest, it's in the people's interest to move those processes more quickly. i think what a lot of folks in real estate are realizing, yes, we're going to up the ante, but we're also going to make things work and there's been a receptivity to that. >> rose: when are you going to announce the plans? >> it will be announced in the next couple of days. 200,000 units, a half million people will be covered. it will allow us to reach a lot of folks-- you mentioned seniors before, one of the biggest-- fastest growing population in the city. there will be a substantial commitment to senior housing. there will be a substantial commitment to housing for families who are amongst the most priced out in this city, working families. there will be a substantial commitment to what is, sadly air, huge part of the city, folks at the lowest income level

who haven't had a new infusion of opportunity for affordable housing for a long time because the public-- excuse me, the federal government got out of the public housing business. it's been a long time that housing was devoted to the folks at the lowest part of the income level. really, i think what you're going to see is a housing plan that looks like new york city, that looks like the true dynamics of our population, where we are today. i've said to a lot of people, 200,000 in 10 years. the charitable ones say that's ambitious, and the less charitable say it may be crazy but it's a question of mayor leadership and bringing the powers in the city together on common ground and we're going to mike this work. it's the biggest expense by far in people's live lives in new yk city as you can attest. >> rose: yes. >> so if you want to fight income inequality, reduce the biggest expense people face. >> rose: the mayor is alsoue can carry-- it's-- you have a big podium and you're connected to the people.

you have an opportunity to argue your point of view. >> yup. >> rose: in a city like this. when you look at a cross-section of the problems that we face-- and i'm thinking about charter schools now oofs that a misstep by you? did you seem to come across as a man who was scared of charter schools. it didn't fit his philosophy. or was it some other reason in which you thought you could not provide schools for charter schools? >> i would say it differently. i would say i had a pretty well-established set of ideas. i made clear throughout the campaign last year that i wanted to work with charter schools but i also wanted to hold them accountable for the same kind of inclusiveness in terms of the populations they served that traditional public schools serve. we serve a lot of english language learners, a lot of special ed kids. i want to see the same hix in charter schools. i wanted to see a high quality of achievement and a good working relationship between charter schools and traditional

schools housed in the same building and i know that had not been the case often. we set about to do a series of reforms. i think what i could have done a lot better is say, look, even though i said it a lot of times i have to say it again and make clear my goal is to reach every child, whether in a traditional public school, charter school, religious school, they're still part of our future. >> rose: by definition, if charter schools were doing a very good job of educating kids in addition to other kinds of school models, would you be supportive of that if you believed that deeply, and would it just be a question of finding a way, what was the most productive place for them to be? >> i think it's more complicated. i think like any other sector, charrer schools are converse, diverse, some effective, some not. some inclusive, some not. >> rose: inclusive meaning? >> if you're in a traditional district school in new york city you're going to be taking in the pope alation that lives around that school. by definition in new york city you're going to have a lot of kids whose first language is not english, a lot of kids from

disadvantaged backgrounds and a lot of kids who happen to be special education kid. and we in the traditional public schools know we have to and will serve all. we'll take all-comers. some charter schools have been very good at following that model. some have been much more selective, and me what i need ton is we're working with charter schools on the same ground rules as the rest of the public school systems and to the except they create innovation it will be shared constructively with the rest of the public schools. that to me was not the tradition in the last few years in the city. that has to be reformed. >> rose: do you have any differences with the teachers' union? as you know, sort of a test of president obama during the campaign, who would he take on who was the traditional democratic constituency? and sort of the idea was he would take on the teachers union to a degree and made arnie duncan the secretary of education. give me this sense of idea that the teach erpz' union are part of the problem.

>> one, i don't agree they're part of the problem. i do agree all of us in the education formula have to do a better job. by the way, let's start with my ilk, the elected officials of both party overs generations who watched public school system go on with ineffective practices and didn't do a whole lot about it upon. my predecessor-- i had my differences with michael bloomberg but i give him a lot of credit for mayoral control of education. >> rose: which every mayor wants and he got it. >> and i give him credit and for making major investment in education. where i think he missed the boat is unfortunately there was a difficult dynamic between the teachers and with parents. that was not a necessary rift properly. and all of our predecessors missedly opportunity for early childhood education, and the most high impact. >> rose: glif them a leg up from the beginning.

>> and figure out a way in which parents play a bigger role in their children's education in a more systemic way, in which teachers are respected. we do everything we can to support them but we also demand a lot of them. the fact is, look, i've had a very constructive working relationship with the teachers of this city. but i've also believed, you know, that they were not in favor of mayoral control of education at first purpose they were against colocation of schools across the board. >> rose: how do you evaluate teacher perform expanse all of that? >> but i'm saying there were things we disagreed on, but we always had a tremendous amount of common language in terms of working with each other, respect, understanding that teachers are part of the solution. and i believe that fundamentally. in fact, i think more than at any point in our history teachers are part of the solution. i think a lot of the cultural wars around education -- >> are? >> cultural wars around education over the years really

obscured the fact that if we didn't create an effective strategy to recruit and retain the best teachers and uplift the teaching profession, there is no way in the world we would fix our schools. and so all of -- >> that's a clear principle for you. the most important work in a school comes from a teacher and a principal? >> i'm going to say first a teacher, and a teacher who continues to get trained throughout their career. who has peers master teachers helping them along, who is encouraged in every way to stay in the profession when they're good. and if they're not good, helped along to a different profession. that's the model that i think we need desperately that really hasn't been attempted. >> rose: there is this, too, mayor bloomberg, it seems to me-- i'm asking the question-- clearly it seems to me you're the kind of man who wants to know where there's a good idea, i can find it. if you have an idea that will help me do more for the people of new york, i don't care you who are, where you came from,

tell me what it is and prove to me that it works. but it's said you haven't-- i read this-- seen or talk to or sought the advice or counsel with the mayor. wouldn't you want to do that? >> yeah, i want to separate-- s- >> is there reason to do that? >> first of all, for example, i said we reached half a million more people with paid six leave based largely on the success of places like seattle and san francisco and lobbying at those models and we're working on a program to have a municipal i.d. card that will reach-- you have a half million undocumented people in new york city who have no form of id, if they meet a police officer, they don't have an id to show them. we're going to introduce a municipal id. and we got that from -- >> is there a reason not to talk to the man who had the job you now have for 12 years? >> i'm very comfortable talking to him, working with him. i signed on to his gun control efforts which i think are very important for this country, and i am continuing his policies on

public health. i'm continuing his policies on resiliency, on a lot of the environmental fronts. it so happens that we haven't talked a lot in recent times. i'm very comfortable doing it, though. and i'm certain it will happen naturally. i'm certain there will be issues that i'm working on that i'll want to ask him to be a part of or seek his guidance on. i imagine he'll want me to be a part of something he is doing. >> rose: and the possibility of people in business having a connection to issues in terms of providing jobs for the people of new york is an important idea for you. >> absolutely. >> rose: and there are people that can bridge those gaps in terms of connections, more power to them. >> right, and so, but i want to say, against that background of universality, bring all-comers on, all ideas welcomed, collaboration with all sectors welcomed. so long as it's clear that i'm very serious about my central thrust here. i said i'm here to fight inequality. i said i'm not here to continue the status quo that was not working. you know, this is a city-- he just had another report that

confirmed about 46% of new yorkers at or near the poverty level. it's an astowppedding fact, one i could not believe. >> rose: and unacceptable. >> and unacceptable. i will work with anyone, but i want people to understand who i am. my sense of mission is address inequality and use all the tools of government to do it. once we understand each other, all things are possible. i have found a lot of folks in the business community take me at my word, that's what i'm here to do, to look for common grounds. >> rose: a couple of things. the charter schools. did you back down on that. how do you define what you did after that massive campaign on television? >> look, i think, one, as i said earlier, we needed to say more clearly and we did, that we're not going to leave any child behind. and we've made very clear by our action, every child who was in that process around the school colocations and didn't understand up with a school assignment, we've accommodated them now. two, what i said is, look, some of the things are going to be

different. we're creating a new process for colocating schools. charters are welcome to be part of helping us think that through but it will will come with new ground priewms we have different priorities about capital spending, for example. we are concerned about overcrowding crisis in our schools and pre-k. those are higher priorities than the charters. i think what we've method to do is say here's who we are. everyone is welcome to be part of the conversation but there are philosophical difference friday's the previous exphrgz that's not a shocker. >> rose: and it was clear in the campaign. >> yes. >> rose: yp to the horse carriages, where are you on that? and tell me, what's the end result? >> to me, i think it's a pretty straightforward issue, and, obviously, a smaller issue in the scheme of things in the city. >> rose: yeah, exactly. >> every industry matters, every working person matters. we're talking about this this case -- >> celebrities got involved. >> celebrities got involved on both sides. it's a relatively small industry that unfortunately as has been

proven around the world-- cities around the world have made the decision to end horr carriages. we just had an diswen a week or so ago, a horse in the middle of traffic, spookdz by traffic, you have a crash, someone gets hurt, the horse gets hurt. why? because horses don't belong in the middle of manhattan's streets. we can find another way to support the tourist industry, create jobs for those individuals but not have an inhuman practice. i'm convinced we're going to get there and i look at the cities around the world that have already gone down that path and i believe there's a reason. it's a different moment in history. >> rose: thank you for coming. i hope you'll come back. >> thank you so much. it was a great pleasure. >> rose: kevin spacey is here. he acts for theater in film, he drebts, he produces, and, this, he is a world-class impersonator and has done so on this show. he has two oscars and became a digital star last year when he starrestarred in netflix' "housf

cards." this may he is releasing a documentary focusing on the world of theater called "now: in the wings on a world stage." it takes us on the international tour of "richard iii." here is the trailer for the film. >> "richard iii" is about the nature of power. it's such a unique thing to take a company of actors around the world. it's rarely done anymore. >> this is like a whole other way of living. >> people's nerves were just on end. >> this play has probably been the most demanding experience i've ever had. >> the thrill of theater is the fact that it's alive and it's happening once only in front of your eyes. >> rose: i'm pleased to have kevin spacey back at this table. welcome, sir. >> thank you for having me. >> rose: good. we did a thing in front of an audience. >> tribeca film festival, we premiered the film "now." and it was really great.

it was the first time i saw it in front of an audience, and a chance to bring almost all the cast together. >> rose: it seems important to you. >> it is. a the love people over the years have asked me, "why theater? why did you go--." >> rose: especially when your career was heading up? >> i suppose sometimes people put more value on what they think film and television can bring to an actor, versus what theater brings to an actor. for me i've always been a theater rat from the very, very beginning. it's always been my primary allegiance. we made this fist-- first-time filmmaker dprected this, and it was an opportunity to go behind the scenes to really show what it's like to be an actor in a company. it was quite a unique company in the sense that we had sam mendes directing whoork is not bad at all at what he does. >> rose: that's not a bad place to start. and you two knew each other.

>> this is the first time we worked together in a decade since "american beauty." we called it a bridge project, a three-year experiment in when sam directed five productions. the first two years they did two plays in rep. what made it unique was it was the tirs time a trans-at labtic theater company had been brought together-- meaning 50% american actors, 50% british actors. experiment in sam's mind was let us bring together americans and brits and see if it doesn't matter how you sound, it doesn't matter where you come from. you can make shakespeare come alive. so people talked the way they talked. when i did richard ii a number of years back at the old vic, i had to speak with a british accent, because they wanted me to be a convincing british king. in this case i didn't have to do an accent.

nor did anyone else. everyone sounded the way they sounds. people just accepted that's how so-and-so sound, that's how so-and-so sounded. it was a 10-month experiment across three coninents, 12 -- >> you were in naples. >> istanbul, singapore, sydney, australia. spain, san francisco. and it was quite remarkable. people-- last night someone said, "theater is dying." >> rose: i know. >> if you had been with us on this tue, you would have seen audiences packing into theaters all the world. >> rose: you also said people have been saying theater's dying for hundreds of years. >> it's true, it's true, as long as people have stories to tell and people want to hear stories, i think theater will be alive and well. so it was a great experience for me to be able to try to capture. and the thing i think i'm really most pleased about in terms of this film, is although sam and i

are sort of the center of it, what you really do get a chance to do is meet a whole group of journeymen actors and actresses who aren't famous. this is what they dedicated their lives to do, and they are the heart and soul of what makes theater fantastic. >> rose: it's becoming entrepreneurial. >> i'm just trying to continue my disruptive behavior, charlie. >> rose: yes, yes. >> it's very exciting, actually. because, you know, i think to some degree one of the reasons i decided to do it is i gave this mctaffert lecture last year. >> rose: tell me about that, i know a number of people-- including mark thompson, who used took the head of the bbc, has given that lecture. >> it's an interesting lecture to give. i'm the first actor that has given it, talked about the netflix model and did two seasons of a series without doing a pilot that you start to see how so many emerging talents are finding new platforms, new ways to be discovered, new ways

to get their material out there, self-producing. and one thing interesting about the netflix model-- and maybe this certainly began with boxed sets-- it's really shown and proved that audiences like to be in control. they like to decide how they're going to watch something, when they're going to watch it -- >> they do not want to be tethered to real time. >> exactly. i felt sometimes films of this nature are undervalued by the industry. they're put in a niche corner, and i wanted to use this film to see how much of a cross-over is there. if people like, for example, what '05 done in "house of cards," "richard iii" is where it started because francis underwood is based on richard iii thoop that's where the directoro dress comes from. i know some people think ferris buehrle invented it. it was william shakespeare i wanted to do it in some such a

way i would have control over it. i'm opening in theaters, it's available on kevinspacey.com. >> or now the film.com. >> it's called "now" because among other things-- >> it's the first word of the first sentence of the play. "now is the wirnd of our discontent." or some who say "now it's the winter of our discountance." a slightly different meaning. >> rose: yes, it is. >> it evoked to me what theater is. theater is now, it's at this moment. and for the actor, it's one of the things you get a chance to express and see in this film what, it's like for us, the ritual of getting up every night, night after night, trying to dig deeper, trying to go farther, trying to understand the play and your audience and for us the different audiences that we played. and the thing i always try to say to people who don't sort of understand or get theater or why

it means so much to us, if you wanted to compare the difference between film and theater, to me the big difference is, no matter how good an actor might be in a film, they'll never be any better. >> rose: that's it. >> but in the theater i can be better tomorrow night than i was tonight. i can be better in two weeks. i have often used the analogy of tennis because i think it's one people can understand. you can go out and play eight nights of tennis and yes, it's the same rules but it's a different game every time you go on the course. >> rose: i think it's a metaphor for interviews and conversations. how i hit the ball, determines where you hit it back-- >> oh, i dropped my racket, charlie. >> rose: you never know. >> look, the art of conversation. and because the relationship between the actor and the audience-- it was very interesting for me in the last two years having done "house of cards." you know, that director addressed things so interesting in the theater because in many

cases the audience is as close to you as i am. i was able to look into their eyes and see the kind of naughty glee that they experienced in becoming the coconspirators. and there is this interesting thing that's happened over the last two years, the relationship that i have as an actor to an audience, and the relationship that francis has to the person he's telling the story to. it's a very intimate, very unusual thing. it's really been fascinating to experience. >> rose. >> rose: i want to come back to house the cards but tell me where you are at this moment in your own life. you have the 10 years at the ovit behind you. where are you headed? >> i'm at the vic another year. so in rawg 2015, i will hand that over to someone glels you will choose that person? >> i am parent of the succession process so that is ongoing. we'll probably know in five or six months who will step in. but the thick i'm very excited about, what we set out to do--

revitalize the old viv, bring it back as a distinctation theater. the they often loved that theater. they came off, they came early and told their friends, they have helped us put it back on the map and i'm proudest of the fact that itedly continue long after i'm gone. that's what i set out to achieve. i have to raise money-- we took no money from the state. although we got very fortunate that the coalition government i suppose in recognition of the last 10 years has given us a one-time $5 million grant but-- and there's always a but with the government-- we have to raise 15 to get five, and i'm hoping fair number of significant donationing in the next couple of months. >> rose: what happens after the year at the old bick. >> it's interesting to me that house of cards came along just as i was finishing my time at

the old vic. that takes up a good amount of my energy and time. >> rose: and how did that come to you? >> it was becauseave conversation i had with david fincher on the sit, the social network. it had been a long while since we worked together as actor and director. i did a film of his called "seven." >> rose: oh, yes. >> and we talked about working together again like that series. heed had heard-- we came back together, and both agreed that we thought it would translate really well to the united states. bill willemem is the head writer. >> rose: and says he was influenced by lyndon johnson in creating urntd wood, and you also had kevin mccarthy as kind of-- >> yeah, mccarthy was really

helpful to me in terms of understanding what the majority whip did. the show has moved on and i'm not necessarily in that role although i can't say anything and don't want to be a spoiler. i had somebody who said i'm not going to watch season 2 until season 3 is done and then i will watch them together because i don't want to wait. everybody has their own way and president clinton loves that show. he said i can't watch it until hillary can. >> rose: what are the theater pieces you cared most about? is it shakespeare? is it checkov, is it other kinds of things. to some degree shakespeare has had an influence. the only two leading roles i've done are richard ii and richard iii. >> why not more?

>> i've never been an actor who coveted oh, i want to play this part, i want to play that part. some of the most extraordinary experiences was gene o'neill. and the relationship i was able to develop with jack lemmon, and i got to play his son, or when i did the ice man cometh or the moon of the misbegotten. there's something about the way in which anneal attacked the characters he created, the complexities of them, the alcohol, the despair. there's something the about one those remarkable writers who seem to be nothing between their heart or pen and tape writer. it just came. there was no blockage. there was nothing they were unfraed to expose and share with an yud'. even with kneel' kneel's --

>> have you ever thought of doing a one-man show. >> i am going to do a one-man show but not as myself. >> rose: no, no. >> i'm going to do a show henry fonda created in 1974, called "clarence darrow." >> rose: oh, yes, yes. >> it's a david rentals play. and i wanted to be up on stage this season at the old vic, it's my tenth year but i didn't have the time because of the schedule of house cards. start be may 28, i'll do two weeks of performances as darns darrow and then we'll start house of cashedz right after that. >> rose: what's the appeal of darrow giplayed him twice before. i played him in inherit the wind. >> rose: so what's the appeal about it this time beyond that? >> i think he's an incredible factor. many people call him the father

of the legal profession in the united states. the scops trial. the scopes trieps he was a tremendous fighter for labor. he was the man who won the eight-how were day for workers in the yeets because of the pennsylvania minors who had it worse than almost anyone in terms of the abiewses hurled upon them, and in ferms of the hours they were working, if and he was a hugely influential man and he took on cases no woon else wanted to take on. he was an advocate against-- >> he was a huge progressive. >> very big progressive. i think the play is uplifting. it takes you through a whole number of trials that were very, very famous trials. and i've played him and it's not such a heavy lift to play him

brand new. i know his life. i know his story. here's two things-- i've never done a one-man show and we just reconfigured the old vic, back into the theater in the round, which we did a number of years ago when we did the norman conquests. i've never done a one-man show and i've never done a play in the round and what that means is there's noerp to hide. you see a little bit now in the documentary there's a whole section where we talk about how if you giggle on stage and you start laughing while doing a play, at least you can turn and hide from the audience. but if that happens to me in the round, there's just -- >> what's wrong with the idea of doing a one. man show that is you, that is about the characters you've inhabbed, number one. it's a gift of your impressions. >> maybe when i'm 85 -- >> do you have to wait that long. >> "young man, when do i go on

in? >> rose: is it beneath you? you've been saying other people's words all your life. >> thank god. >> rose: did you write the lecture or did you have help? >> i had help from a remarkable man. he helped me a little bit with some areas i was vague tough time with, but most of it i wrote myself. >> rose: what did you say beyond the impact of netflix and streaming and social media and all of that. >> the mctaffert lecture on some levels was an examination of what happened with the netflix mod nel that we weren't required to do a pilot, that netflix believed in the idea of the show.

all they had to do was get 565,000 more members to break even. it wasn't impossible. >> rose: reid hastings has done well. they're going to up the price as you know. >> only for new subdescribers. >> rose: fair enough. are you a stockholdener netflix? >> you know, charlie, i never discuss my personal life. no, here's the other thing what i'm trying to do. >> and just did it a few weeks ago in miami, i'm doing more concerts because, you know, i loved singing. i love singing. i loved doing it wheny i did the bobby darin film. i'm not doing bobby darin anymore. that was a particular thing, and i went down to miami and raised money for an art center and i had an incredible time. greg field, who use to be sinatra's drummer, musical conductor, he plays the drums. and we had a 40-piece orchestra with backup singers and strings. i did about 10 songs i've never

done, including some billy joel. by the way let me tell you something-- and highs right. i heard him talking about this. "we didn't start the fire" is an extremely difficult song to do. i did that. we did "mr. bojangles "and sinatra and i think i'll do a little more of that. in that context, in answer to your question of a one-man show. you can do impressions -- >> you have an orchestra behind you. you have a big screen. >> charlie, do you want to produce the show? >> rose: i do. >> i'm get a sense. >> rose: i do want to do this. yes! there is so much you can do. think of what you have to play with. i had forgotten you could sing. how would you like to do something with mandy patinkin. >> my very first job in new york was -- >> "shakespeare in the park ." >> rose: with?

>> mandy patinkin. >> rose: what a markable thing he does. and to see people like mandy, who we have seen from lot of theater, to become an interesting character in "homeland." >> the extraordinarily progressive revolutionary programming that's happening on television. and the actors that are being choseep to play those incredib incredible-- what become iconic parts, characters that are sort of antiheroes. you think back to the days of television when network executives thought all the characters in a tv show have to be likable. they have to be good at their jobs. we don't want to offend anybody. >> rose: no! >> now it's like audiences want this gritty, all kind of -- >> they want walter white. >> they want walter white. >> rose: they obviously want francis underwood. >> rose: is this the last year of "house of cards in?

>> i hope not. >> rose: you really don't? >> i'm having the time of my life. let me tell you, if there was any dream situation where i would have done a television series and had the kind of collaborative experience i've had with all of our creators and directors that have come on-- and the cast is just extraordinary. it's so much fun because i'm heavily involved in it. i feel, you know, we all grap welit and we talk about it and we discuss it and bo comes up withap idea and i have an idea and he goes away a week later and says your idea is terrible but that led me to this idea this led to this-- it's an a journey we're all on, and the funnest part is there is so much i don't been francis, so much i have to learn about this man. we may reveal it. we may not. but every time i get a script, i'm like, oh, wow, this is interesting. >> rose: what is it he shares request richard iii? >> obviously, they're both stories about the nature of

power. and how these two men, and particularly -- >> how power corrupts? >> good at being able to predict how other people will react, and that's how he's able to be about 16 moves ahead in this chess game he's in the middle of. >> rose: that was lyndon johnson's talent, too. this question was raised andy found it interesting because you could access so much stuff. why not film theater more? one, is it is a two-dimensional versus a three-dimensional experience? >> it's happening more and more. we have lincoln center live now and what they're doing at the new york city opera in terms of filming productions live which they're streaming immediately and going into cinemas all over the united states and canada or great britain. well -- but i also think even that, you know, it costs 25 bucks, you have to get out of your house, you have to go to the cinema to watch this. i think we're going to head toward a time when more theater will be captured.

it will be captured at the highest level of cinematography as you could hope for, and i think it's going to be-- i think the internet will be a place where it will be available. i think it would be fantastic-- people who never get a chance arounded world to get to broadway, to be able to a steppenwolf production at chicago. the reason most don't film their production is they simply can't afford to do it. the magic behind it i think is going to be sponsorship and finding a way to bring theater to audiences, i hope for free. and ultimately you can catalog it. >> rose: figure out some other business model. you can read the best books in the world, period pup can see the best paintings-- not necessarily by being in the museum, but you can see a pretty good reproductionave great painting. but theater has not been able to do that because they don't film it. and because theater has so much to offer and to be in the

moment, to be in the moment-- >> but i also have to say this because i'm of two minds about it. >> rose: i know you are. >> while i think it will be fantastic for more people to be able to discover theater on the internet in a movie theater or on a dvdid, i also want people to go to a theater and experience it in the theater. i don't want that to go away. >> rose: no. >> but i do think there is a way to get more people interested and engaged and it's one of the reasons we've made the documentary is make people aware of what an incredible experience it is. the theater is inviting, and as long as we make it affordable, we're going to be all right. >> rose: "now: in the wings on a world stage" will be released in select theaters and on kevinspacey.com-- >> don't you have a charlierose.com? >> rose, of course,. >> don't make fun of my kevinspacey.com. >> do you sell hats and t-shirt. >> no-- >> we sell something. i think we sell hats. t-shirts maybe.

not many, obviously. ( laughter ) this was a labor of love for you. >> yeah. >> rose: it was. good luck to you, my friend. >> very good. >> rose: thank you very much. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

and their buns are something i have yet to find anywhere else. >> 'cause i'm not inviting you to my house for dinner. >> breaded and fried and gooey and lovely. >> in the words of arnold schwarzenegger, i'll be back! >> you've heard of connoisseur. i'm a common-sewer. >> they knew i had to ward off some vampires or something. >> let's talk dess