>> rose: welcome to the program. we begin this evening with a man selected by speaker boehner to head the committee investigating benghazi. >> i think that ben rhodes was the straw that broke the camel's back. we're going to show an internet video and not a broad palsy failure in libya. charlie, i'm an old da. if you really think it was the video then cite me all the evidence. that's the monetary we hear that we use the best evidence we have at the time. there wasn't an intent to deceive, we were just mistaken. think back to the five susan rice talk shows. well then give me all the evidence to buttress what you said at the time because there is none. >> rose: we continue with

ruzwana bashir. >> we were able to build a company, be able to create jobs, to create opportunities that people have these special experiences, they shower their friends and family. all of that's been kind of inspiring. it doesn't mean that my career i may be more into kind of spaces. >> rose: we conclude with e.o. wilson. his new book is called a window on eternity. >> i believe we should reenter a period now of frank and open discussion of who we are and where we're going. i would like to quote a french author back in the 30's just writing before the, just before world war ii again. he says men's trouble come from the fact we don't know where we are and we can't agree what we want to be. i think until we answer those two questions, what we are and what we really want to be, we're going to continue to fraction

around. >> rose: benghazi travel experiences and the fate of the planet when we continue. >> there's a saying around here: you stand behind what you say. around here, we don't make excuses, we make commitments. and when you can't live up to them, you own up and make it right. some people think the kind of accountability that thrives on so many streets in this country has gone missing in the places where it's needed most. but i know you'll still find it, when you know where to look.

captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: we turn to benghazi speaker john boehner and house republicans to select a new committee to investigate the 2012 attacks. the decision followed the e-mails regarding the state handling. they looked at the benghazi matter the obama administration and how democrats remain undecided. they said monday any further investigation by congress would be, quote, how a partisan effort to politicize the tragedy. joining me now from washington is representative trey gowdy of south carolina. speaker boehner appointed him on monday to head the select committee. >> thank you very much congressman for joining us. yes, sir, thank you for having me. >> rose: so tell me how you

see this. is a new select committee necessary. why did you accept the speaker's invitation, what do you think you can accomplish. >> i think it's necessary charlie because if you consider the three different categories with respect to benghazi number one, why was the facility not secure leading up up up to 9/. if not why not given the significance and thirdly was the government honest with the citizenry and the aftermath with respect to the explanation. i'm sure the speaker picked me in part because i used to be a prosecutor, that would be my guess. i'm much more interested in pursuing the facts than i an political theatre. and i think it can be done that way. i hope my democrat colleagues will participate in the select

committee. of them are former prosecutors or former attorneys who asked very good questions. i had a guy stop me in the airport today at reagan while i was coming to the capitol. he said i'm a former military guy to get to the bottom of what happened in benghazi. i have no idea what his politics are. he may have no politics but that's a pretty common refrain, at least back in south carolina, and as i travel, people still think that they are there are unanswered questions. >> rose: it seems to me and you can correct me or not, i'm asking this as a question. it's really driven by republicans, they had this belief and have not been dissuaded that somehow the whitehouse in a political campaign year has not been forthcoming, and you question exactly why there was some confusion about the nature of the attack. in the end, that's the issue. >> i think that you can certainly fashion an argument that that's the most important

of the three issues because that gets it at whether or not people can trust or rely upon what government tells them. and it's difficult, charlie to go back to 2012. but if you and i can go back there in our minds, we're in the throes of a general election. and one of the narratives is that al-qaeda's on the run, osama bin laden is dead, g.m. is alive. i think that ben rhodes memo probably was the straw that broke the camel's back because that memo made it really clear we're going to blame an internet video and not a broader policy failure in libya. charlie, i'm an old da. if you really think it was the video, then cite me all the evidence. that's the mantra that we hear, that we use the best evidence we had at the time, that there wasn't an intent to deceive. we were just mistaken, back to the five susan rice talk shows. well then give me all the evidence that buttress what you said at the time because there is none. >> rose: so you don't believe

anybody from the cia who said at the earliest beginnings, we were not sure. we in washington at the cia were not sure exactly what was going on. we later, you know, looked at all the evidence but that was our state of mind. you don't believe that. >> no, i cannot tell you what someone else's state of mind was. what i can tell you is that on september 12th, there was an e-mail from bet jones kind of memorializing a conversation she had with the libyan ambassador and she was very clear this was anti-al sharia. all the talking points in my judgment sanitized them to go from the word terrorist to extremist from the word attack to demonstration. and most significantly take out any reference of the prior episodes of violence in libya

because and his own testimony was he didn't want to embarrass the state department many i'm not interested in embarrassing or not embarrassing anyone. i think it is fair to ask why on that date given what had been happening in libya prior to that, why were we caught so flat footed by what turned out to not be a protest but an organized attack on our facility. >> rose: listen to what mike murrow said to me in this program in a conversation about him and about cia but also about benghazi. here it is, you can hear it. >> in the entire process that i just talked about, the whitehouse suggested three changes. three changes, all of them were editorial, none of them were substantive. so the whitehouse had no substantive input into the talking points. there have been allegations, charlie, that the whitehouse wrote the talking points.

there have been allegations that the whitehouse -- >> rose: that means by cooking the books. >> cooking the books. there have been allegations that the whitehouse made significant changes that talking points, not true. there's been allegations that the whitehouse told me to make changes to the talking points, not true. none of that's true. none of it. >> rose: so when you listen to the director of the cia and acting director say that, what do you think. >> well the first question i would ask mr. murrow come up with susan rice's narrative. even the c.i.a. was not pushing that narrative. when you think about intel just last month he said he was shocked when she said at the morning talk shows this was a spontaneous reaction to a video because his intel, his information was wait a minute, no one is telling us that this was related to the video. hillary clinton said it was related to the video. the president condemned the

video. so i cannot tell you what mr. mow rel told you. i can tell you this. someone changed the talking points and they changed them in the light most calculated to sanitize them and cast the administration in the best light. is there a benign explanation for that. of course, there could be. is there a more nefarious explanation, of course there could be. >> rose: okay. why did they have those talking points. why did they change the talking points, and what did they believe. that seems to be the core of your focus. >> well, i would argue the first category is why we missed all the episodes in libel -- libya prior to the attacks. how the government acts with its citizenry and rice said what she said and what role if any the whitehouse played. i think that's very important, whether or not you can trust what your government tells you. but speaking personally, if you ask me personally what's number one to me, i would like to know

why we, number one were still in benghazi when everyone else pulled out and number two, why was her security footprint so light despite the repeated request for more security. >> rose: that goes back to the security issue. and there was a commission that looked into that as you know. were you not satisfied by that investigation? >> no, sir. in no way shape or form. you know, charlie, i used to do investigations. you don't rely on summaries, you don't rely on synapses and you don't fail to interview rice or mills. we had a hearing on the perceived short comes of the arb and that doesn't even get to the fact that they didn't have access to all the witnesses or all the documents. so how in the world can you rely on an investigation done when

investigators didn't talk to three principles and didn't have access to all the evidence. >> rose: so what do you believe what mike morell now says. >> i would encourage you, if you have a slot at some point to invite senator graham to come on your show because he has a very different recollection of the conversations than mr. morell than the one i just heard. i was not a witness to that so i can't impeach someone's credibility when i don't have any evidence to do it and i wouldn't do so. i just know this. susan rice repeated the internet video narrative and mike morell, despite an e-mail from the station chief in libya that said not, not related to a protest. he chose the intelligence from langley. now, did he do it for legitimate reasons. did he honestly really believe that the boots on the ground in libya were wrong. i cannot speak to that. i can just tell you that he was

wrong. >> rose: there's also this. i want you to listen to this because mike morell is a principal character. he said this to me. it's a political football and it's not going to go away until secretary clinton decides what she's going to do. are we simply listening to politics. >> charlie i've been in this town for three years but politics seems to in if he can and invade everything here. even something like the murder of four of our fellow citizens. it doesn't have to be that way. and i would tell my colleagues on the other side of the aisle at least let us have our first hearing before you dismiss it. it's just typical d.c. politics. to me, facts are not red or blue. they're not swing state facts. they're just the facts. and mike morell, people can draw different inferences and conclusions. mike morell's defense i'm sure is i wound up being wrong but this is the basis for the opinion that i drew in the

aftermath of benghazi. well that's fine. then we can challenge the evidence that he relied upon and his judgment but that's very different from challenging someone's motives. i can tell you that after 20 months, no arrests, no convictions, no sentences. that's another reason benghazi's not going away. >> rose: here is also, i'll conclude with this in terms of mike morell. talk about meeting with republican senators which you referenced lindsay graham earlier. here it is. >> the whitehouse asked me to go with her to do one thing. she simply saying that what she said about the attacks involving spontaneously from a protest were consistent with the talking points and that those talking points were consistent with the classified analysis at the time. so that was my job is to actually show then, and i took them, i took them the talking points. and here's what the talking points said. i took them the classified analysis, and i said here's what

the classified analysis said. and it's almost word for word exactly the same. so i wanted to show them that there was no difference between the talking points she used and the classified analysis of what the analysts thought. >> rose: do i understand you're saying lindsay graham has a different recollection about that meeting. >> most assuredly, he does. and i'll let senator graham speak for him sf. it wouldn't be spare for mike morell or senator graham for me to weigh in on that. i will say this susan rice's sunday morning talk show appearances went beyond those talking points. accepting that the talking points are wrong and we now know they are wrong but what i would ask mike morell is you had greig hicks in libya who never said a word about the protest. you had a station chief. why did you ignore the evidence in libya to rely on someone at langley and what evidence was that person relying upon. some of this is judgment but we're also held given accounting for our judgment in life and his judgment was wrong regardless of

what his intent was. >> rose: so do you think the democrats will participate or not. >> i think they will. because their constituents still have questions too. again, i don't want to be naive, i don't think you have to be republican or democrat or have any political affiliation to realize that what happened in benghazi should not have happened. now, you can draw different inferences from those facts. but everyone is going to conclude, somebody in congress ought to have access to all the witnesses and somebody in congress ought to have access to all the documents. and so far we've had neither. >> rose: what would satisfy you? what is it that you would believe can put this question to rest as to who said what, when and why. >> two things. number one, a process that inspires confidence in your viewers. that's really important to me as a prosecutor. i want the process to be fair.

but charlie i want access to every witness that has knowledge about what happened in benghazi in the aftermath and i want access to all of the documents. and this business of overclassification or waiting 20 months or having to sue to get a document, that is not what a free and open society. you shouldn't have to go through that to get the truth from your government. so i want access to everything and i want a process that hopefully proves the critics wrong in terms of whether or not this is a political exercise. >> rose: regardless whether the democrats participate or not when will your committee begin investigating. >> we're going to pass the resolution this week. this sounds must not day but rules have to pass and there's a process that has to be in place. i really think the democrats are going to participate. i know adam said that they would boycott. i think minority leader pelosi since then indicated they will

participate. >> rose: thank you. great to have you on the program. be right back. >> rose: the co-founder peak one stop shop for activities away and at home. they serve as virtual tour guides. currently available in 19 cities spanning the u.s., hawaii and europe. the company will expand to ten new markets beginning this summer and through the fall. in march they announced a second round of funding over $5 yirch. i'm pleased to have ruzwana bashir at this table. she as interesting as her company. welcome. >> thank you. >> rose: just a quick bio for you. born in england, educated in england, oxford. harvard business school and then have this amazing series of jobs from goldman sachs to and i'm not sure why else. then decide you want to be in silicon valley and you want to do what everybody's dream is to

go to sill valley and be an entrepreneur and create a company. what more should i ask. >> really i always wanted to do something entrepreneurial and started my career more on the finance side and transitions on start ups. i was given an opportunity to create tremendous value and really shapes the way we louvre our lives. and so i had an idea and decided to go after it. and that's how i started peek.com. >> rose: there was something that you started called open table. what was it about open table that you thought might serve as a model for what you wanted to do and travel. >> sure. >> it all stems for me going away on the trip from es tan buehl. >> i spent 20 hours planning this trip what i should do and book it. it didn't make sense to me there wasn't a one stop shop to be able to find great activities and book them on-line and stheelts really what it had done

for the restaurant industry you're able to go find restaurants and book them easily. i decided there was an opportunity to built there that came to an open table in the activity space. >> rose: and underline, triple underline agive tease. >> yes. >> rose: which means. >> it means it's going kayaking, taking a tour of art gallery and wine tasting. everything you do. >> rose: and the people who are your sources for this are. >> obviously we work with pace makers and give us ideas on all the things they like to do in a place. and we have a team of travel experts. >> rose: tell me the kinds of things people like in istanbul. >> i can give you an -- >> rose: it was the basis for you deciding you wanted to form peek. >> people wanted to see memorable sights like the eiffel tower and unusual activities. it might take private tours of some of the museums. >> rose: going to watch bread

being made. >> exactly. you can go and actually learn how to make pastries in paris which is probably appropriate. >> rose: so you took this company. how long ago did you form the company. >> two years. >> rose: you had this new successful round of financing. >> you're going to use that money to expand into new markets. >> we are. we're expanding to mexico which is kind of very relevant about 20 million americans every year go to mexico and weekend designations say the hamptons cape cod all of these markets telling us they really desperately want us to be in so they can help us book things to do. >> rose: who is your competition. >> so companies such as expedia or kayak are being used in order to be able to book the air fair and flights. really not when it comes to activities. so what we see is a hundred billion dollar global market activities that hasn't had any great companies that come in and dis disrupt a great experience. >> rose: do you have these people go on trips and log back

in and tell you what they found great and new discoveries you might not know about so you build up your database of great activities. >> we actually review really important components and taps into something else that we haven't talked about yet just speak professional which is a suite of tours we have to run that business. so just like open table we're really making that leap so that these guys have the technology that they need. about 30% of activities basis have on-line booking but the rest don't and so we're able to help them empower that. >> rose: what is your economic model. >> we're able, we actually take a commission on activities that are booked through peek.com and the peek tour activities accounts. >> rose: so people who pay you the commission on those businesses that people come to use. and you don't pay them unless somebody can use their business. >> exactly. they only pay on the on occasion and we charge them on the tours we provide them to be able to take reviews and on-line booking themselves.

>> rose: tell me about you. so you come out of harvard business school having been at oxford and the debating union there, a president maybe. most of the people who do that or hold that job have been in or go into politics. or become barristers. >> create opportunities for people to have these special experiences and they share with their friends and families. all of this may be more access to other spaces but for now i'm very excited about being able to build peek into a billion dollar company. >> rose: you've been able to build too is a network of friends people like eric schmidt when we did a conference we made sure we invited you because you recommended as a great dear close friend of his. that kind of thing. you have people who have been

enormously successful in silicon valley as your good friends. >> i've been really fortunate because i was working at a self help which jacknded up investing in. so they were people i built credibility with because i was watching this and when it came to building peek i was able to approach them and talk about the idea in the things we were going to do that and they got on board immediately. they were very excited about the disruption and the fact we could do this stuff with mobile and so they came on board and there's been tremendous helpers and has provided essential advice for us as a great company. >> rose: what about all those huge travel companies. they can't simply say we're already book all these things, why can't we simply go into the activities market ourselves. why do we take customers away from you. >> so i think it makes a lot of sense for people to potentially do that. large companies tend not to be involved.

they tend not to produce the technology so we have that advantage. and over time we're able to build a network effect as more and more merchants are using the peeking platform and therefore it doesn't make sense for them to go on to something else. >> rose: ken lerer was here the other day you may know ken as well. the one thing many start ups come to him for financing don't have, they don't have the best technology. and the central thing is to have technology underneath your idea. >> i couldn't agree more. i think for me coming in with my background which was more in finance. it's integral for me to have a great partner and building something that my co-founder lost ten plus years in my valley voting and so really having a co-founder are that have those technical skills are incredibly important says we really have got cutting edge technology, we're pushing it forward in terms of mobile. we have the product and the space which is very exciting. that's the reason that peek's

activities are packed with stuff backed by apple. we've been able to market ourselves out. peek is one of the top ten companies in travel. we're making sure we're pushing forward. for >> rose: for some young person coming from a business school, it's not necessary for people are graduates in the business. we're looking for some x factor which we think we can identify now. what's your best advice for people coming to silicon valley. >> take risks earlier in your career. >> rose: your later too. >> exactly. it tends to be the case that people are not taking risks earlier but when you're putting yourself in a situation where we're really challenging yourself perhaps it's out of your comfort zone you never done it before. that's what you're going to allow the most. you're going to get the skills you need to be entrepreneur. actually think the most important skill as an entrepreneur is having business because you get so many awk is a kulz. >> rose: you have persistence.

>> i like to think i do. i'm told i do and that's because you're used to having to overcome challenges. >> rose: what is it that when you look ahead ought all the things that are possible, the extra thing about this travel and activities business is it's a hundred plus billion dollar business. what's the number. >> it's about a hundred billion. >> rose: so that's extraordinary. in terms of offering opportunity because the market is i assume growing as well. >> yes, it is. and in terms of timing, we used to not really be able to engage in activities the same way but now we have computers and our phones and we want to be able to book things around as right now we wake up on a saturday morning and we want to do things with our kids and all of a sudden -- >> rose: wake up on saturday morning you know what you're going to do that day wherever you are eventually. >> yes, exactly. book and buy. and go off and do these incredible things, learn about the world around. >> rose: learn how to paint. >> exactly. >> rose: what would you do if you were going to paris for the

weekend. >> i'm actually going to paris for the weekend. >> rose: what are you going to do. what did you learn from peek. >> there are a couple activities i'm pretty excited about. i never seen it before and people might not excite others but i think i'm pretty e site about the history of that. hopefully i'm going to go on a tour about monet and myself to kind of lend a little bit more and be on a tour as well. >> rose: that's the obvious thing to do in paris. you can go take cooking lessons for example. you can do that. >> so exactly. i was enough to actually i'm not sure i'm going to have the time but what i really wanted to do is learn how to make great french decertain and that's on the horizon and say there's a whole host there's another experience i like the idea of you learn how to make speak art so you have a whole process that educates you and you're able to make murals with them. >> rose: what's the most exciting place you had a

fruitful activity or satisfying activity. >> i would say i'm a little bit of landscape and often say, i went horse riding in the mongolian step and that was pretty stunning. >> rose: thank you for coming. >> my pleasure. >> rose: much success. >> thank you. >> rose: back in a moment. stay with us. >> rose: e.o. wellson is hear he's a professor mayor tuesday a pulitzer prize recipient and an expert on answer. remains passionate about the normal role and vital role about protecting the future. his new book tells the story about one of the most diverse places on earth are. the national park on mozambique called a window of eternity. glad to have e.o. wilson back at this table. welcome. did i fro nounce that right. >> you got it right. >> rose: tell me about your trip there and what this offers. >> i just recently had my third

trip there for a month. i go there as a consultant i call him a world citizen, he has his time and wealth to resustating and giving rebirth to a park that was almost destroyed during the terrible mozambique civil war. >> rose: a lot of the animals were destroyed. >> actually, yes. it was just about wiped out. it's what we usually call wildlife. big ones. they were drastically reduced but i'm happy to report that my studies and that of some others including the outstanding young naturalists peter took those photographs have indicated

getting the vegetation and the small creatures, insects and spiders and all the sub straits and it has a peak of special concern. back to what it was before the civil war late in the last century. one of the best, most diverse and grandest parks of africa. >> rose: and why is that important. >> because, it is in such places and this one has a million acres and of adding to that in such places are preserved the bulk surviving bio diversity, the variety of plants and animals even micro organisms and this is

a time of dex operation for the rest of live and we should begin to pay more attention to it. because we are eroding in a way everywhere in the world that is an accelerating rate such that experts on the subject. may i include myself in that. >> rose: yes. >> because of course i'm studying it. estimates that is half the species of plants and animals on earth could go extinct. >> rose: half. >> half. by the end of the century. and that's a pretty serious business because extinction of course is irreversible and we have no idea of how most of these eco systems work. we have very little idea of how even many species are in them. and we don't know what is going to happen to the world if we remove such a large part of this ancient, ancient because it's

evolved to this condition before humans came along over three and-a-half billion years of evolution. so we are tinkering in a way that could be injurious to our own species. >> rose: injurious means extinction of the human race. >> i'm not so sure about that but certainly i like to call it the possible age of the aremozoic which means the age of loneliness. we're moving towards the age of loneliness and that could be dangerous to our survival. we don't know. >> rose: not only gregory car but joyce pool doing things with elephants. >> she's the world authority on elephant behavior and she's one of the things she's done, i call her the elephant whistler. i'm sorry, whisperer.

one of the things she's done is to approach elephant herds, the ones that survive that are growing now under the control of traumatized matriarchs believe it or not. when the revolution, sorry, the civil war which is going on, 78 to the 2, elephants were being shot right and left of their tusk and these younger elephants are traumatize. so when they got old enough to be matriarchs and elephants live that long, matriarchs in fact infected the younger generation over the hatred of human beings. it's a great fear. and joyce says among many other things in studying elephants how to approach them, how to calm them down and that's one of the many tasks being performed. >> rose: you are going to be 85 or are you already 85. >> next month. >> rose: you'll be 85.

>> >> rose: so you basically have said i'm just going to tell it like it is, i'm going to tell it like i see it, i don't care. nothing to lose. >> i plan to do just that. >> rose: what is it you're going to tell us. >> i'm going to describe in a book forthcoming that's in october what i think our science really tells us about the human condition. and the title of this book, now you can see i'm going to go into trouble waters and be in trouble myself. the title is the meaning of human existence. i'm going to face some of the questions of philosophers abandoned a long time ago. >> rose: life. >> and theologians solved and they have not and that is the meaning of life, the meaning of human existence. i believe we should reenter a period now of frank and open discussion of just who we are and where we're going.

i would like to quote a french author of the back in the 30's just writing, just before world war ii began. he said all of man's troubles come from the fact that we do not know what we are and cannot agree on what we want to be. and i think until we answer those two questions, what we are and what we really want to be, we're going to continue to fraction around and putting ourselves in deeper and deeper trouble. >> rose: give me an early indication which you can say about what we are. >> well, that means unfortunately i do cover a bit in this one here. it does mean that the anthropologists, the archeologists,. ecologists have now put together a pretty good picture of how humanity emerged as a species, a biological species in a biological world, let me emphasize those words on the

african continent and that they took the final steps during last half million years to meet ancestors we know, the an says of those ancestors we're pretty sure of and we know increasing amount about their ancestors. and that sequences from creatures not very far removed from age and their mental capacity among the ostril signs and the series of homones our president sersz in which the brain grew in volume. that must be the world's history fastest evolutionary rate ever. it went from 400 cubic centimeters. that's a chimp size to about 900

cubic centimeters and homeowner in homo sapiens to our current 1400 centimeters on average. and we edged up with this ugly agree to self respecting african primate. we don't have a beautiful floating skull with a sound package but we have this bulging head, round head that's bulging around because we have to put all that memory capacity somewhere as we went up to 1400 cubic centimeters. >> rose: so it's the growth of the brain that mostly neighborhood us. >> but it was now increasingly clear to me and i think to many others including social psychologists who are especially studying this subject that this has everything to do with the increasing ability of groups of humans and pre humans to cooperate. and by intricate signaling read one another's intentions and

then to move for a cooperative. and once that was started, then the great advantage was given to what we consider social intelligence and also analytic intelligence because we have to have the capacity to provide labor, skillfully. and build our nest these nests for early cam fires. >> rose: how do you define -- >> travel. let's take it from the top down just briefly. i think one of the innate traits of humans that really is innate, that is it moves us all and develop in us all is what one might call, what one can call spirituality. it's a transcendent quality. we're seeking what we can believe in, that often includes after life, and also includes that there must be a maker that

explains it all. but while that is something that's universal and actually tends to unite people, are it is the creation stories in contest with one another. each religion has a different, what we call faith. each faith has a different creation story and they're all different from one another and they are in conflict with one another. and the reason why, they have this powerful appeal to us or magnetic force is that they define tribes. almost certainly humans evolve by competing in good part by competing tribes. >> rose: did you have some conflict or verbal battles with

richard dockings. >> yes, richard dockings. >> rose: he's an atheist. >> yes. i was arguing with him about advanced human behavior. he has been writing books himself along with a large number of science, serious scientists, including moi. using the theory of selection, spare me from describing it but it has to do with kinship being the driving force for the origin of human behavior in society. that prevailed for quite a few years. then about ten years ago i found, started finding serious flaws when i began to go into it more deeply. soon i was joined by a couple of mathematicians at harvard of the first rank and i say first rank because it took mathematical

analytic ability of considerable difficulty to follow through the implications of that earlier theory all they could need, all that they could explain and they finished what they found to be really short. they published papers, and we have others coming out introducing i think a much more sensible theory, more closely related to what we understood about their genetics of evolutionary change. and i haven't heard from richard lately, though. we were not, we were not disputed by, i mean we were angrily disputed but neither my reasoning on the evidence more the mathematician's analysis has been rebutted. >> rose: but it hasn't been rebutted. >> no, it hasn't and it's just

one of those little that occur in science. >> rose: but speaking of that, in 85, approaching 85, when you look back on a brilliant career as a scientist, have you made any serious misjudgments that you had to on further learning and further exploration you can say i had that wrong as i learned more. >> sure. it's one we just talked about. >> rose: i assumed that was one. >> and let's see. looking back, i'm also created with a brilliant mathematician and ecologist robert mcarthur the theory of bio geography. in the 60's. and it's had quite an influence but now it's beginning to fall apart a little bit. and the studies of this field have advanced a great deal showing that what we produce was

very much a simplification. but you had to start somewhere. i guess that would be one indianapolis -- mistake if i cn admit it. >> rose: how bad is global warming today in terms of its threat. >> it is potentially lethal. >> rose: lethal. >> yes. and we're not trying to stop it. we're already at the level of one of the some of the warmest periods in the geologic history of earth. if we keep going, we don't seem to have any will to stop it. i noticed that it's now been shown that coal is going to be the cheapest tool and the one most used planned for example by china big time. >> rose: that's true. >> and they are looking -- >> rose: they're looking for alternatives. probably with more -- >> they get a good solid 3.5 out of 10.

i mean we're going to have to do something more drastic than what we've been doing because we're entering on our own territory. >> rose: do you feel people somehow are looking for some magical bullet, you know. some silver bullet that's going to save the world. >> i keep thinking that yes, i keep thinking fusion energy. >> rose: yes, right. >> that's waiting, like waiting for the second coming. i was at a conference a can youal years ago when the direct of liver morris held up a bottle and he said we're approaching the point of fusion at the liver more laboratory. if we can convert this into energy then the world can be fueled with that much water. >> rose: when are we going to do this. >> i thought they were going to do it right away. i started relaxing. but i think, yes. >> rose: that's a long term hope other than stopping all the

damage we're doing. >> yes. >> rose: with fusion. >> here's what's important in my mind. i think that the impetus to create alternative energy is powerful. and i believe that the best science in technology are going to be focused on it. i think that will be achieved but what's got me very disturbed is that we're putting all of our thought such as it is into the physical environment, the non-living environment. and we're forgetting the living environment. and while we're thrashing around like this, we are destroying more and more species, more and more ecosystems, faster and faster. and in other words, we're not even thinking about destroying the rest of life which is what we're doing. >> rose: we're forgetting about the interdependence of us all. >> absolutely. and i think we owe something to the rest of life. i would like to see that more

seriously considered as a kind of religious preset. >> rose: i want you to just look at these and quickly describe them. this is then from the park. this is from the national park. first slide there as beautiful as it is, did you see that. >> yes. that's the sacred mountain. >> rose: that's the sacred mountain. wow.>> i had the previous of beg the first entomologist, one of the most biologists to go into the rain forest at the summit. you see there's african, classic african savannah. and woodland, dry woodland forest and what you're looking at is the surface of the lake that's shrinks during the dry season and brings out large number of ant elopes. but close to 6,000 feet is a rain forest a little patch similar to the one in the congo

and it had not been examined in part because it was considered sacred. >> rose: next slide. look a that. beautiful. >> that's gorgeous falls coming down from that, in that mountain ridge. >> rose: and next slide. and who is this handsome. >> these lovely creatures which would adorn anybody's living room. well, they are chameleons, a group that's highly developed. this is an adult and jeff young is perched on top of the adult. this is a new species of reptile which is found only on mount vernon. >> rose: next slide. >> if you look closely, you will see a, i think it's a katydid so beautifully camouflaged. >> rose: these are just amazing. next one.

>> and this is a male olive baboon. they're everywhere, including raiding the kitchen. >> rose: oh really. they eat what? >> they eat whatever they can steal before they are driven out. >> rose: just look at the face. the next one. there you go. >> okay. that's a dominant small monkey. >> rose: they look different. look at the way its face is framed by the hair. >> yes, it's a lovely creature. and the monkey thinks so too. >> rose: they're hot. >> yes. >> rose: the next slide. >> that's my favorite animal. that's a wart hog. they're everywhere. this is a member of the pig family member. they're very bold. they come out and rip up the lawn is whatever remains of

lawns around this camp. and lovely to watch. >> rose: right. next slide. >> now here we have one of the first human artifacts. we just, we i say some is comig in to search for evidence of the early humans or prehumans and it wasment long before a very early form that could and probably was made very form of early or prehuman. >> rose: next slide. this shows you. >> yes. this is the lookout station, the hippo house. and the damage to the fence was done by heavy machines not there by revolutionary. >> rose: next slide. >> this is a school. i went to and i talked to the

students being supported by car and by usaid to really start helping these people living around the park. >> rose: next one. >> that is the gigantic, i mean it's a good size of a human fist. dung, beetle dung. they're happy. >> rose: they call them dung beetles. >> yes. >> rose: see that's the ecosystem at work, isn't it. >> yes, it is. and we're just beginning to understand how it all fits together. we've got a long way to go. >> rose: this is the park is a laboratory for that and that's what we intend to make it. >> rose: next slide. >> we now see water buck out on the plain. the one of 12 species of

antelopes. we are finding bio diversity on the park and to conduct scientific research and education. >> rose: it's diversity in how it connects. >> yes. >> rose: next slide. >> that mosquito is sanding level. that looks like the one the the that carries dengy fever. it's checking the blood in the arm of a volunteer. it's establishing on its head. this is a regular strike species. >> rose: still killed a lot of people didn't it. >> malaria is horrible. but 40% of the people of mozambique also are hiv. >> rose: 40%. >> there's huge consequences that follow the povertyization. people and other countries have

a long way to go. >> rose: they're coming back. >> they're coming back wondfully. they have a democracy. >> rose: beautiful beaches there. >> they have some of the longest beaches in africa, all unoccupied. we have, it would be a wonderful investment, if you could get roads in there. >> rose: okay, next. hand some creature here. >> that's the tsetse fly. they jam that into it. >> rose: and next. >> yes. my favorite animal. that's one of the big nile crocodiles. i have a chapter in the book called the 20 foot crocodile. and we know they get up to 16, 17 feet but the possibility distance of a 20 footer is a legend that we wanted to track. a few places in africa where you actually have warning.

people get killed around from crocodiles. >> rose: there's one more. i want you to see this. this is elephants. >> yes. >> rose: look at this. >> yes. that's a female telling you to stay away. >> rose: because of the young one. >> yes. they are more aggressive than in most other parks. >> rose: window on eternity, a biologist walk through the national park. photographs by -- >> peter. he pronounces it peter. >> rose: always good to is a you. >> very good to see you again and thank you for having me. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by

media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

man: it's like holy mother of comfort food.ion. woman: throw it down. it's noodle crack. patel: you have to be ready for the heart attack on a platter. crowell: okay, i'm the bacon guy. man: oh, i just did a jig every time i dipped into it. man #2: it just completely blew my mind. woman: it felt like i had a mouthful of raw vegetables and dry dough. sbrocco: oh, please. i want the dessert first! [ laughs ] i told him he had to wait.