from washington, the mclaughlin group, the original. for over three decades, the sharpest minds, best sources. issue one, benghazi cover up? speaker of the house john boehner named republican representative trey gowdy to chair a house select committee on benghazi. on september 11th, 2012, 4 americans, ambassador christopher stevens and fiown woods on contract to the c.i.a. were explain in an assault on

the u.s. consulate in benghazi, libya. ambassador stevens is only one of 7 u.s. ambassadors to die in the line of duty in the nation's 240 year history. >> i'm not telling you how to do your job, but i'm going to ask you some questions. if you can't answer these questions, i'll draw whatever conclusion i want to draw. can you tell me why stevens was in benghazi the night he was killed? do you know? do you know why requests for additional security were denied? do you know why an ambassador asking for more security days and weeks before he was murdered and those requests went unheeded? do you know the answer to why those requests went unheeded? do you know why no assets were

deployed during the siege? do you know whether the president called any of our allies and said can you help, we have men under attack. can you answer that? do any of you know why susan rice was picked? the secretary of state did not go. she said she doesn't like talk shows. why was susan rice on the 5 sunday talk shows? do you know the origin of this mythology that it was spawned as a spontaneous reaction to a video? do you know where that started? do you know how we got from no evidence of that to that being the official position of the administration? in conclusion, congress is supposed to provide oversight. the voters are supposed to provide oversight. and you were supposed to provide oversight. that's why you have special liberties and special protections. i am not surprised that the

president of the united states called this a phony scandal. i'm not surprised that secretary clinton asked what difference does it make. i'm not surprised that jay carny said benghazi happened a long time ago. question, what do you make of that series of question that is was just put to you? >> i thought it was extraordinarily effective, john. i had not seen that before. that's what this committee has to do. no sound bites, but ask these tough questions and get answers. why were these guys' requests for defense of the compound answered? why was no help offered or sent in an all-night attack? why was the lies all concocted on the night of the attack and this whole cover up story? why did it take months now, each after susan rice and the president of the united states put out this cock and bull

story for the memo -- judicial watch and then raise this thing to investigation. if the congress does it as well as trey gowdy did what he just did, if they answer questions like that, this could benefit the country about a squalid dereliction of duty. >> trey gowdy has already referred to this investigation as a trial and called the administration the defendants. this is a political witch hunts. he knows the answers to those questions. there's been a three-month investigation by the new york times. nobody has coming by malicious wrongdoing on the part of the administration. the first question he asked, this was not a diplomatic outpost. this was a c.i.a. outpost. ambassador stevens was known as

an assertive ambassador who did not pay attention to his own personal safety. he didn't like what was going on in that consulate. they were detaining people, interrogating people. he was going there to confront what was going on. this was a c.i.a. operation which is why there was so much confusion in how to respond in the hours immediately after. if mr. gowdy wants to put in -- he's play withing the national security of the united states. they're already fundraising on it, the republicans are. it's a shameless exercise. >> both sides spunked raise off stuff like this all the time. aside from that, i don't think we have answers about what happened there and we don't have answers about how the white house responded. they've given one answer, we see other answers by these emails. they were worried about the president's reelection and not being straight with the people

about what happened. i think it's great that you played that whole string of trey gowdy because it gives people an idea of why he was picked to head this committee, regardless of whether you think it's a good idea or bad idea, they thought it was a good decision based on the fact he was a successful prosecutor. they think he can do the best job ferreting out the answers to these questions. they're important answers that we don't have and just what you were talking about now about the c.i.a., i think a lot of people don't know about that. >> there's a reason they don't. it's the c.i.a. >> what were they doing there? the first ambassador killed since 1979, and there's questions. boehner thinks the white house has been holding out on congress. the white house exposed 41 documents it had with held from investigationors. at least one of these directly

contradicts what congressional investigators were told. what she has described as an excessive, over the top, additional investigation of that which has already been investigated. but that investigation that took place was deficient because of a variety of reasons that boehner feels and many people feel have not been addressed. >> i think what triggered that as well was the discovery of memos that had not previously been made public. having said that, i think it is appropriate to have this kind of thing under those circumstances. since hillary clinton investigated that point, i suspect if she wasn't running for the presidency -- we have to be careful not to give this

a taint that doesn't involve politics. >> by the way judicial watch was the one that was arraigned. >> this thing has got to be done well. it has to be tough questions and all the rest. what i just heard from you is what in heaven's name, where is the national media? they're all over watergate. now all these institutions say what are we doing, move on, nothing to see here. >> every media organization has investigated this to death. this animates the right wring of the republican party and i would like to point out ambassador stevens was not murdered. he died of smoke inhalation. >> i think -- i heard a drastically different story from people who are also in the know about that. i don't think -- >> he was murdered in a

terrorist attack. >> it was an opportunistic terrorist attack that grew out of that video -- >> the video had nothing to do with it. >> there were demonstrations across the world because of that. >> not in benghazi. there was no video related to it at all. >> opportunistic and it's still a c.i.a. and if you're going to put people on trial, we should put petreus on trial, not hillary clinton. >> we're going to be returning to this subject, i'm sure, repeatedly, over the next 6 months. >> i hope not. question: is the benghazi scandal waxing or waning? >> clearly waxing. >> it's clearly waning because obama care is doing better and the republicans need to run on something and this is what gets their base excited. >> it's just getting fired up. >> i agree.

it's not waning. it's certainly waxing. >> waxing indeed. don't forget the mclaughlin group has its own website. you can watch it on the web any time from anywhere in the world. mclaughlin.com. putin's -- russian president putin did an about face in ukraine this week after months of escalating tensions and bloodshed. following a meeting with the president of switzerland, putin called for a halt in a referendum scheduled for may 11th and endorsed kiev's planned may 25 presidential election. burg holder is chairman. the osce. he persuaded putin that the osce will pressure ukraine to

end outsmell its -- its military push and engage leaders in negotiations. in return, putin claimed to withdraw troops. the explanation may lie in recent polls taken across ukraine. 77 percent of ukrainians want to keep their country united. only 14 percent want to allow susession. 9 percent don't know. 70 percent say they want unity. 13 percent don't know. if only ukraine's russian speakers are polled, 58 percent want unity, 15 percent don't

know. so all told, secession loses big. these results persuaded putin the referendum would back fire on russia. said they would go forward with the balloting on this sunday. question: if putin's reversal on ukraine credible or a ploy? >> i think it's both, john. i think it's credible because i don't think putin wants to annex ukraine. it would be a political disaster because western ukraine would be lost forever. he's got to crimea. i think what putin wants to do is essentially down the root, he wanted to finlandize ukraine, make it neutral, not

in n.a.t.o., decentralized government and make it politically and economically open both to the european union and to russia. and it seems to me that is the best solution for both sides. many in kiev won't like it. but i think it would be best for the united states and russia. >> i think that's the deal that the administration is pushing and henry kiss incher has written about, the finlandization of ukraine. n.a.t.o. is not going to accept ukraine. if ukraine were in n.a.t.o., we would be in a terrible situation today. the leaders of the west and east both want to walk away from this situation. i think putin is operating by the seat of his pants here and he's really looking for an off ramp here. >> i think -- i wonder if you're being too optimistic thinking that this is putin's plan.

he is such an ambitious man and he has an apa tight for regaining some of the territory lost. i think he's just kind of trying to pull the wool over our eyes. >> let me go to another issue. putin's popularity within his own country had dropped significantly. when this happened, his popularity soared. there is a great impulse to be once again this transnational power and i think he feeds to that. i'm not saying it's the perfect solution to his problems, but it has transformed public opinion. >> somebody else appeared on the scene. who was that? >> on this scene? the issue of ukraine? >> the president of switzerland and he also has another title.

>> organization for security and cooperation of europe. >> is that possible, that putin has some of his own money, his 70 billion in with the swiss? >> he could send a message you're going to be in trouble with the sanctions. ata the same time, it offers putin somebody to talk to. putin's at 82 percent. if you grab eastern ukraine, what do you get? you got these provinces that are destitute and the whole world against you. i think putin is a smart guy. i agree he acted revac -- reactaively. you have the naval base. he's the guy that got them out. i think there were 8osce guys locked up, 4 of them germans,

and somehow they were let go in eastern ukraine. >> the -- >> we've hit pay dirt there. i don't think that's it. i think this man-made a convincing case. this is the best way to handle this new extension of your empire, which you -- a, b, c, d, and e. >> let me make a comment about putin's fortune. at that point, it doesn't make a difference -- >> he's the richest man in the world. >> he wants to preserve his power and place more than anything else. >> i think he was impressed with this was very careful footing -- >> i agree with that. >> and slow the process down. and he may have changed his mind. student loan blues. >> the federal government does

not let people holding student loans refinance down to the low enter rates available. this bill would say yes, they can refinance. >> democratic senator elizabeth warren introduced her bank on student loan refinancing act this week. 23 democrats including a bevy of democratic encum pants up for reelection in november. student loans to refinance to the low 3.68 rate available to new borrowers. current student loan debt stands at $1.2 trillion, higher than overall consumer credit card debt. it is driven by historically high college tuition cost as well as looser lending standards that allows students

to use funds for international travel. the average student graduates college today with $29,000 in student loan debt. warren's legislation would cause taxpayers $50 billion, a sum she proposes to make up by imposing a surtax on people whose incomes exceed $1 million annually. the so-called buffet rule act. first proposed by billionaire investor warren buffet. this came out just in advance of hillary's book. >> i think hillary's book will sell more copies. >> some very fetching pictures

inside. >> she's the real deal. she comes from the lower -- she comes from the lower middle class. she was told from the times she was a child she inherited cherokee blood, if that's what you want to giggle about. >> american indian. >> the skurge of american banks. anyone who is sitting on a loan of any kind feels they should have the right to negotiate. it's terrific public policy, it will never get 60 votes in today's senate, but she's going to be around for a while and we're going to continue to hear from her. i don't believe she's going to run for president if hillary runs, but she's got the makings of a strong policy leader for years to come. >> what if she runs and that was about a week ago -- >> i don't think she will run

if hillary clinton indicates she will run. i think there's ana agreement that nobody will get in the way -- >> you want to make a bet on that? >> yes. >> i think she would hurt herself -- >> we're talking now two years before the event. >> i'm talking two years from now -- if hillary drops out, she'll get in. she would be splitting the woman vote and everything. she's going to raise her profile and not run. >> is elizabeth warren destined to be a major player in politics? >> her profile is going to be raised, but a major player, no. >> she's going to sell a lot of books, but in the end she won't run for president. >> i don't think she's going to go beyond where she is right now. >> i think she'll be a major player. not a major, major player, but

she's going to have a higher profile and deserves it. she's a woman dealing with a lot of issues that affect a lot of people. this is going to cost billions of dollars every year. at a time when we can't afford it. >> and it does nothing to underscore the problem of higher education. the higher tuition cost and kids are leaving college and not finding jobs. >> the billions should be paid by people who have overpriced student loans? >> 90 percent of students default on their loans within 2 years. it's a lot of money to be losing, right mort. issue 4, tease the ones you love. >> he's the attitude. oh, don't make me do this. oh, this is too hard. you tease the ones you love,

but some people misunderstood what i had to say and i want to make sure members understood the biggest impediment we have in the immigration reform is people don't trust the president to enforce or implement the law that we may or may not pass. >> two weeks ago in an appearance before a rotary club, house speaker john boehner mocked fellow republican representatives who are reluctant to pass an immigration overhaul. later boehner reiterated a key point he made earlier in the year. namely, president obama enforces the nation's [ indiscernible ] selectively, from the affordable care act to the latest proposal to free inmates charged with possession of firearms before their sentence is complete.

it has undermined confidence -- employer verification of job applicant immigration status. november's mid-term election is 6 months from now. what role is this election play nothing the timing of the house immigration debate? bear in mind the senate passed its immigration overhaul one year ago. >> usually in an election year, forget it, that's too big an issue, they'll hold off. the feeling among many republicans in the house is that let's wait until we potentially gain control of the senate. the polls look good for them. why do it now when it would be pritically dangerous for them

potentially. i think john boehner is getting a lot of pressure from the chamber of commerce and business groups to do something. the video is sort of aa boehner caught in the middle. they want to do something, they make a border security thing -- >> i think we know there's a huge vote that is at stake here. it is primarily the hispanic vote. including the republicans who are going to face a lot of them during the election. >> if they move ahead with immigration reform, they will cease to be the leadership. >> boehner may be looking at the end of his leadership regardless. i think there are two slender chances left. once the primary season is over, you could have a vote before august. kathy said she expected a vote.

the right immediately jumped on her. and in a lame duck session when people have in a sense less to lose. it could happen. >> let's not overlook the possibility that the senate may change hands. >> then you have to -- hillary's view, in april last month, nova choked up when she asked hillary clinton about a path to citizenship. >> what do we need to do to put this in priority? >> i'm a huge proponent of immigration reform. >> will immigration reform have to wait until the next presidency two and a half years away? >> i think if republicans take control of the senate, there may be an opportunity for republicans to try to control what the bill looks like rather than waiting for yet another

potential democratic president. they may feel they're in a better position to do this in the next year. i don't think it necessarily has to do that. i get the feeling it's talked about so much that we might see it sooner than that. i think at the very latest, after 2016 election -- >> jeb bush -- >> these things take a lot of time. >> the gop takes over the senate, it won't have to wait for two and a half years. >> i don't think so. >> cameron's tory party will run third. >> the real scandal is the back up in care at the va and the white house is going to intervene. >> susan. >> do you think shensecki will resign? >> i think democrats will participate in the benghazi committee. >> i think the negotiations in

iran will be a huge issue in this country. >> the bursting of the bubble until 2019, 5 years from now, and 10 years after the peak of the economic crisis. joyful loving mother's day weekend to you all. bye bye.

this week on "moyers & company" -- >> oh, the market! praise the market! free the market! it'll do -- we invented the damn thing. what's going on here? like, we act as if these are forces of nature. i just, i don't get it. if it ain't working, change the darn thing. >> announcer: funding is provided by -- anne gumowitz, encouraging the renewal of democracy. carnegie corporation of new york, supporting innovations in education, democratic engagement, and the advancement of international peace and security at carnegie.org. the ford foundation, working with visionaries on the front lines of social change worldwide. the herb alpert foundation, supporting organizations whose mission is to promote compassion and creativity in our soy.