>> rose: welcome to the program. we begin this evening with ron dermer. he was ambassador to the united s ]the murder of three israeli teenagers. >> hamas is a terror organization. sheaf fired thousands ofi5ícs rs at our cities. they have scores of suicide bombers to blew up our cafes an. members of hamas has perpetrated a heinous crime. they are a genocidal organization. they callu " for the murder of jewsworldw. the leader of hamasthe murders,d they called for more kidnapping so we know what hamas is b it

hasn't changed and hamas needs to be confronted. >> rose: also this evening shimon peres at a conversation p);york here on sunday. >> it was a conflict, and neither'9'3 them nor us],!ñ shod condemn our children to fight all their lives. so from our standpoint, we want to be a truly democratic state. it's inseparable beingox'u jewh and democratic state. >> dawn dermer and shimon prepares when we continue.w >> there's a saying around here: you stand behind what you say.

around here, we don't make excuses, we make commitments. and when you can't live up to them, you own up and make it right. some people think the kind of accountability that thrives on so many streets in this country has gone missing in the places where it's needed most. but i know you'll still find it, when you know where to look. >> and by bloomberg. a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: we begin with the tragic discovery of the bodies inz?=teenagers. israel mourned themthey were ki+

and murderon their way home fra israeli occupied west bank. t he bodies were difficult covered>c. he blamed hamas andv%lh5ell find those responsible for the teens murders. "÷uélocations. joining me is rontxa& dermer ss been israel's ambassador to the he's close to!minister. i'm pleased to have him here on this program for the first time. >> rose: tell me everything you can tell me about what israel has8-tragic death of the. >> well, we know for a fact that these crimes perpetrated by members of hamas from the hebron and we will eventually find them. a couple of the perpetrators of this crime their pictures haisrd them. what happened was you had three teenagers who were coming back

from school trying to get home and they were7á,jñ kidnapped and essentially executed by these hamas members. and israel has taken action in order to dismantle the terror infrastructure of hamas in the west bank. we've taken in gaza because rockets have been fired in our city, about two dozen rockets. we took anti-terror action in gaza as well. the prime minister is meeting with the security cabinet to find out what is the right response of this in order to bring the perpetrators to justice, dismantle the terror infrastructure in the west bank, conduct theses#úthe rocketeers r city and÷= protect the civilianpopulation. >> rose: what were the motivations of those who killed these teenagers. >> well, one off=rz the motivats oñ themotivation of isis and alf these terror groups.

in the middle east these terroristlike poison. hezbollah is an example. the shi'ite fanatics are led by iran. you have sunni fanatics in the middle east, hamas, isis, al-qaeda. these are trying to essentially reverse history tojyñc restoren the case of the sunni and case of the shi'a to dominate the middle east. and these terror organizations have to be opposed and confronted and that's what israel's doing in gaza and the west bank. >> rose: if it was a political act, why haven't÷!mm y taken>> well, it might be that e organization of hamas, their headquarters in gaza does not want to take credit for this act because they don't want the retribution that comes along with it. but we knowhamas in the hebron a

perpetrated this attack. hamas is a terror organization, theythey have fired scores af bs at our city, at our cafes and buses. members of hamas perpetratedui7. hamas is not just a run of the mill organization they're a genocide organization. they call for the murders of jews worldwide. the leader of hamasz24/48 hoursw what it's b it shouldn't changed and hamas has to be confronted. >> rose: what kinds of options does israel have that it might use going forward. >> well listen, i will leave it to the decision measures in jerusalem with all due respect to the israeli ambassador in washington. those decisions are made in jerusalem. we had security cabinet

meetings. he'll take the actiobare necesso justice, and also to do what's necessary to defepí+population. you'll recall a year and-a-half ago israel had to engage in a wider action in gaza. we did that because we were getting rockets, hundreds of rockets fired on our cities every couple weeks and the prime minister had to draw a line saying this was unacceptable. he took action in gaza didn't solveone of the yetest periods m gaza. obviously the people in gaza, hamas believe these types of actions are acceptable. the job of the prime minister of israel and his security cabinet is to ensure that hamas knows that these actions are unacceptable. i think onexf5m role, charlie, s very important that the world can play, is they have to send a message that terrorism is unacceptable. they can actually send a message to president abbas. we pressure very much that president abbas the leader of palestinians has condemned the

kidnapping. the problem is that president government with the kidnappers. so he's condemningi terrorism oneday and he's joinh terrorists the next. we think the next important thing8l send a clear message to president abbas to dismantle the alliance, the attacks he hasgzw made with the hamas owingion to turn their back on'his back4y&rk to peace negotiations. >> rose: for history's sake, what had the government of israel said before about the fact that hamas and the plo or the fatah had come together. ,clear that they found that an unacceptable organization to deal with. >> as soon as they announced this alliance was going to su takeplace, the ;+ñtity cabif israel met and made clear thatit political negotiations with this new palestinian government because we're not going to negotiate with those committed to our destruction. that decision was made already six weeks ago. the!join, president abbas joinep

with hamas, you9c7ñ have seen he para in the west bank and i think that's part ofwe'rein thes since the kidnapping they've taken against hamas operators and hamas own farah structure that west-b z to dismantleét6ñthe terror ned to sprout up. we think president abbas has to take a stand a clear stand against hamas. >> rose: i realize that's thing. but did the president abbas, did he condemn the killing and did he help in the search toa%kx fd the teenagers. >> yes. he condemned the kidnapping. at the time iksince the killing. yes, he condemned the kidnapping and we appreciate it and he condemned it in arabic. he condemned it in saudi arabia and that's very important the ps also worked with israel and they were cooperative with israel in

trying to find those who were responsible. and we appreciate that as well. but he's sending mixed messages. as i said, he's condemning the kidnapping one day and he's in the government with the kidnappers the next and that's the problem. we hope he will take a clear stand, stand with israel in a search for back on hamasc  and terror.m)unylook the palea foraged a unity pack. had hamas changed and recognized israel's right totgñ existrenouá this is unity for peace. >> rose: if hamas took those steps you would beahamas and plr because you could unite, you could then negotiate with one party representing all the palestinians. >> of course. because then you'd have a tj@çqestinian leadership that w. we don't have any problem with palestinian unity that's for peace. we have a problem with the terror organization that shoot changed one iota that's the problem. hamas right now controls gaza. they've got thousands of rockets

in their arsenal. they're firing these rockets and president abbas unfortunately made a pact with this organization. >> rose: will you try to]82qç assassinate the hamas leadership. >> i don'tthe security cabinet . i can only tell you, charlie, you know the primeinterviewed n thisthe prime minister is a very responsible leader. he'll take the actions he needs to take to defend israel's population. the government has a responsibility to protect israel's civilians, protect them from rocket attacks, protect them from these types of heinous terrorist attacks and i have no wçdoubt the prime minister willo what he has to in order to fulfill this responsibility that he has. >&sûmyou can do@ij&ñ to change e behavior of hamas? >> well, i think ifabbas forit'e internationally for him to forge an alliance with an organization like hamas that will be the beginning of the change. it will take some time for hamas

itself to change. but they have to understand that their passive terrorism is unacceptable. the problem is they're getting the wronge$ message."@

change and get the population for peace and not for terror. >> rose: has the prime minister heard from any arab leaders. >> i don't know if he's heard from arab leaders today. you know, it's funny. in the middle east today, the tvarabs are beginning to understand that israel is not their enemy.uparticularly the+kd they understand that we face common threats. led of course by the threat4iraó loping nuclear weapons,and nucl. that's the greatest danger to the arab world as well. they alsoforces in the region.zf and you have a unique, in some ways it's a real opportunity because israel and the arab world for the first time that i can remember, and many people tell me for the first time in the historysptb÷ ofleading powed and the state of israel see their interesbzand the criticalr the israeli leadership and for contribute to peopportunity to s between israel and the arab

world. there's a unique opportunity here and i know my prime minister is very serious about doing so. he's spoken about it publicly and i think it's possible because of these common enemies, because of theseand threats foro build those bridges. >>;9  rose: you expect that theuniy 20th on a nuclearádt+÷ understa? >> i don't know. obviously israel's concerned. iran is a country that directly calls for israel's destruction. they are the foremost sponsor of terrorism around the world. we think everything should be done to prevent iran from delving a nuclear capability. that means not only nuclear weapons today but the ablitycapr nuqapons in the future.yougood d andgiv that was signed to remoe the syrian chemical weapons and the chemical weapons making capability. all of those were removed and dismantled. at least those that the syrian

governmenthñ.8 declared. and i think that that'swachievei applaud the president of the united states for leadif÷g8v tht diplomatic effort. it didn't solve the problems, it didn't solve the humanitarian problem or isis marching both in syria and iraq. there's great clashes going on in syria. that didn't change. but what it did change it took this weapon of mass destruction, the chemical weapons and took it out of potentially the hands of killers. the same thing everything should be doneíout of the hands of thie in tehran. not just nuclear weapons cy butnuclear weapons capabili. we hope the model of syria will be the model with iran.5?dí where you're not, you're removing all  of theuplq richuranium, you're cept feudges and all thehcapabi. the greatest danger charlie to the whole world is you will have one of these radical forces that are fighting right now in the

middle east, radical shiites led by iran, radical sunnis led by al companies, isis and hamas and other organizations, you'll seeb one of these forcesim ñ armed itselfwith nuclear weapx if iran is left as a thrasher hold nuclear power what you will see is other countries in the region will rush to develop their own nuclear weapons capability. and then you're going to create the most unstable region on the planet. you will turn it into aig"&.k g. it's a> rose: as well as irad sport for actions against terrorism. >> well, i can tell you a year and-a-half ago charlie it#mo was with the prime minister in the war room in israel when we had a confrontation with hamas and i couldn't ask for better support from president obama. he stood by our side throughoeby

to the prime minister. in that strong support actually helped israel de-escalate that conflict because we hadbacking e president of the united states6e system we1wñ have produced togr that's financed by the united states, it's israeli technology. because all of those elements israel was able to bring that confrontation to a cease-fire. and a cease-fire which pretty much held throughout 2013 and is beginning to fray now and to restore detairnlts.gand allies r and more vulnerable to this threat from iran. our position is iran should not just be prevented from having nuclear weapons but prevented from having nuclear weapons capability. we do not believe the answer is to leave iran, to leave them parked as a threshold nuclear power. maybe some months or a little bit longer away from havingymata

nuclear bombinspectors as theóg that's going to block iran from breaking out or sneaking out in order to have nuclear weapons in the future. inspectors will not do the job. the only thing that will do the job is to remove this nuclear weapons capability from iran. and we hope that the president obama and the rest of the p5 plus 1 leadership will make sure they stand veryduvery firm. sanctions are hitting the iranian economy very hard. there's no need to rush into a bad deal. we hope he will stand very firm and to prevent iran from having a nuclear weapons capability. >> rose: finally, there's on sunday afternoon thex :ñ park avenuesynagogue here i o come and engage in a conversation with one of the sort of surviving early founders of israel, shimon peres who has had many jobs there. you were there sittingbéññ on tj first row. you called him both aes.ñ dreamr

and a doer. we will see now this$>t? conversation, a man who has served prime minister, defense" minister as welll]+where do you? >> he is a unique figure, president peres in our history. what i said he's both a dreamer and doer. a dreamer in the sense of imagining a differentxéa doer iy trying to implement that vision. in public life, the people i've encountered usually fall, the great figurese usually fall thisone of those . they either inspire others withp their vision of the future or they actually work to achieve something specific and pragmatic goals for their country. very rarely does it go together and president peres you have somebody through his lifetime of servicehas actually done both. the prime minister%very closelyi think he was a terrific president for israel andóhim a u will be hearing from president peres a lot more in the years

ahead. >> rose: ron dermer, ambassador from israel to the united states, thank you for joining us on this evening. >> thank you. >> rose: vt+shimon peres the prf israel for another month. back in a moment. i hope this conversation request and i'm sure it is with shimon peres wmatch8/h the eloquence t introduced it. it is a great honor for me to be here in !-) synagogue to lookout and see who come here out of the appreciation for the contribution you have made to the world, to the3yh state israel,to humanity. there is a sense aséian i look t them viewing this at the historic moment, an opportunity to see you as president.&f-: anyone who knows you, knows that you will be back in new york and the united states because as was

iis where will you be and what will you be doing with a great faith that your life's work will continue beyond the presidency.b we as members of the community look forward to that'ohave servd humanity for3@ié1i'm deeply hon. it is about history, it is abouñ world and i was fascinated with you andbit was his idea that wat responsible for your first visit >> yes.

i was.ú-$ a good check out.g: iç6it was the whole independenc? he was1innocent. paéluat that point. it really mattered what he said. and he saidro'and íw÷night, it c

it's less severe person it is not÷6ñ a matter of trust of beig moral this is the highest degree of wisdom. çto stand up -- 16 t- people called him back. they had proposed himlike -- sos everything. i was still a young boy and he took me when i was 24 years old and he made me listen -- and

after the war, i discovered thaí ñ ignore.i didn't know his --;ce called me up andthe united statu thehead -- so i started -- resh and then i work. >> rose: you said the other

day you hope to see peace if you live another ten years you expect it tozçare you optimisti. >> i'm -- i think made a mistake that there wasfóu not opportunistic. because when i compare our early days and the reality that f ethe reality -- was founded, e need to be -- 650,000 at the time. this is a deficit in our being and it's better -- the reality.

[applause] thank you. >> rose: jbiggest obstacle toda? >> skepticism. i think too many skeptics among us. and people -- can be a little pessimistic -- very much serious, i'moptimist and pessime ֍ thesame way. but differently, why you a pessimist --more you trust the . and i think each everybody will

pass. there's+5 a great potential -- wecan becl great causes. and that would be theadvice i c- >> rose: used to stay pal tony's never missed an opportunityto9y÷ toh/okñ miss an opportunity. has)i8 opportunity. >> i'm not sure i extend the&co. as i'm optimistic i know there are many others and problems and things don't happen over night. and it's not should i say a walk -- >> rose: yes, yes. >> so you shouldn't give up because there are some difficulties. but i started by suggesting --

with king hussein -- everybody it, so -- what should weac1done. do nothing? i'm sorry we didn't meet again with king hussein but the next was arafat. he was a verye(every day, heá)íu flowerthere are affects that ca- [laughter] i can say without him you

couldn't start with so we went=. now we mentioned -- a realistic organization. all ofyou have the two camps ame palestinians. there's the camp of -- with focus and look he has carriage the way heand he says he will participate -- that?@mnpeace. spoke again for terror. attack now but hearabic and saus

not complete. but you know what, we have the other side which is hamas.they f terror, we have an advantage of. they4xß don't care future, they carry arms. they will not win. and poor gaza cannot support them, do nothey already beginnil the cost of it. because we are -- >> rose: do the arab, those arab nations that2÷peace with if the arab league do they -- >> they fight for hamas. >> rose: famous for fighv3hamar is famous for supporting hamas.

>> different camps yes. but ther>hof egypt. they make it clear that you allow hamas -- in egypt. and it's clear that it's a clear positionv,'4ñ and he does it,+÷e doesn't only say --çthey are the countries. they have many difficulties. who needs them from their standpoint. and i think in the camp#1)have . the program of egypt is against them so is abbas for his own good reasons -- destroy the life of the young people. andb4la future.

which is never -- you know, to be young today. it's nice like always but it's expensive. [laughter] young people have to compete very heavily in education, in dressulfk and the parents canno. so we have to allow the young children to berfdx with a new e. >> rose: apart from war and peace which i want to continue to talk about, but israel has become thiskyp remarkable+ for . >> yes. >> rose: how did that happen andn>> let mea right way and th. it happens because of the jewish dna. [laughter] [applause]the jewish dna doesje.

[laughter] to be+my god. and ip.iperson who is satisfied] >> rose: jewish. [laughter] >> yes. [applause]>> you is know israely country.?qfknpeople complain t-

countries, we are purely holy country. so we started actually with agriculture because we didn't have nothing. and -- because weoutnumbered any others. so a land which is nature --/be and now it calls. maybe we don't have the talent to be simple people. but we are very rich in -- many persons, maybe more than -- and those i think is the only compensation for the suffering of ouro

w forefathers.>> rose: your sus president does not have the same commitment to a two-statesoluti. >>líg/ well it's not4president - policy and i'm sure that he will respect the policy whichbasicale government. i mean there are many people/cey with different -- i can't imagine they should have thousand policies.)by the way i- president says he wants to meet abbas. it wasn't his initial but he sell his people and no trust:÷o. >> rose: i would love for you to speak though to the democratic argument as you have often pointed out that the arab population is growing much

faster than its economic but on the idea of the two-state solution has always been something you have believed inas thinking,+believing that would t way for two states to live side by side. if it doesn't happen, people worry and you even have secretary of state kerry getting in trouble and having to sort of pull back something thateusing . what are your thoughts about that? >> i tsingle state having two ns is over. >>sñ>>@w[applause]

>> czechoslovakia divorced andún entity if we shall not have two states, we shall have one conflict. neither them nor us should condemn our children to fight all their lives. so from our standpoint, we want to be a jewish and a democratic state. it's inseparable being jewish;:y and democratic. i think by the way there are democr 3w and there's alsomoses. think about it. he says all people are equal. we are all of us -- thatfirst s.

andsuperior or inferior, they he to respect everybody. andvotherwise it would remain in egypt. and don't3g,people are simple dd people. he took them out from egypt and then they started to criticize him. we hadkyegyldc;b you know, and it came down. >> rose: where are they going. >> they are goingevo to -- ten commandments and -- so he was fighting as a democrat. howdúd can you separate democray from judaism, it's nonsense. >> rose: in fact, you gave an interview to israel radio, radio two, i'm not surep@yñ(r one in

which you acknowledge that president abbas said to you he would support israel as a jewish state which has been an issue of contention. >> the problem of jewish state is not a matter of declaration. in e.?)we have to have a jewishark neutral majority. if you have a jewish majority you don't have a declaration. if you have a jewish declaration without a jewish majority it will just be a declaration. i think there was a formula that maybe abbas can agree to it. that's my impression, i don't want toqand that the statement-e like twohb[ó states, one state,a jewish state -- a palestinianst.

so this will treatp(iç both realities and the declaration. >> rose: it seems that everybody knows exactly what was said and what has to be. that hasn't really changed since the -- war. >> it did change very much. you know, the two state solution wasn't accepted by the two major parties of,the left. palestine the right was what people called the -- and on the right and verycfg6t much -- wenr the two state solution. people say --)w  no,4sprocess.

so now from our stand point,÷thd official policy to support two-state solution. it was also for arabs. they wanted to conquer everything. so in fact at least in principle -- two state solution's the best. now people say it shouldn't be difficult or complicated. was asked by a friend who says lifeeeso they all seem the alternative, you have to think in terms of alternatives. it's difficult, yes. you should overcome it. >> rose: ofyministi'>> one of them, who have been closest to?i]3 was it the -- in the end.

>> -- and myself from the very beginning, we are products of two streams in theówe came one e followed ourthought it was perst wasn't. it wasn't. and finally=veryc>ññj0et close. and the last day -- it was the saddest day for me and the last day for him, it was the+qfé last day -- more happy, you know. it's hard -- this day came and

we embraced each other -- because before we had this -- that was more skeptical itself by nature -- how many people would come. it was overthrown and some of them shouted and sounding rabin. of them jumpedhappy. after what?zls happened -- i sas

face -- that was the happiest face i ever saw. you know,wc(together, we have ds too. it's natural that we are able to overcome it(me we serve the couy together. i don't have theabout it. and then it was for the sake of the country. so i think we're very close. the major issue is not how do you feel but what do youo cñ do -->> rose: on the major , have you felt confident that

every american president supported israel. >> by and large,3i met ten pres. it's very hard to be elected to be a president in the united states.c not a simple proposition -- how to be a president is not easy. so you need the -- but among that in america there were republicans and there were democrats. all of them as far as i'm concerned -- the firsthuú6 was i told you was kennedy. i was then a deputy minister of defense. it's not normal that the

president would receive a deputy. but he asked to see me and we wentqï!i=udidn't use the elevat. i spoke with him and he looked to be different than in the pictures becauselthe pictures -e already with white hair. because he was suffering. he was sleeping on his chair. and then i remember -- saw him first. he was elected in november -- soil, the president -- but by then the end of january. so it was -- we had a talk.

after the talk, kennedy went -- and just the two of them. kennedy turning to him and saysu and your people suffered a lot and itxmyú helpedcf$r me to be . what can you do in my town. we alli1your town we can do any. be a great president of2ízx the united states of america. that isqys the best we can have.it was thy changed the world. without united states, the world would be a mistake. because america being a super power neverempire.

because america became great by giving and by taking, by helping others, not by using others. and it's@hha very special case. it calls in the bonesunited sta. so it@vx was very veryotx treny witnesses. i can witness decides this and that but it isa80l in the ameris possessand because we are smalle but great in freedom and because jewish, wetraditions.!>m/ñ america stood on our side more

than any otherxí% country becae we were,[çso people want to thio good toi'm telling you, it'svto. [applause] >> rose: so if;-write the firsf your obituary, what would you write? [laughter] >> i neverf[laughter] but, you know, i'm not -- you know. [applause] >> rose: what's beenod@g the proudest moment for you?>> what.

>> rose: tomorrow. >> yes. i'm not going to change the past. i'm not interested in it. and i think -- >> rose: but you can change the future. >> youe r can and you have to.not only . so within my who$p) interest is about tomorrow and tomorrowgods. thek =9to change the past but if you want to do better, tomorrow. i have to say that things aresq7 not plain and simple. we are facing still the danger of iran. >> rose: right. >> which is not a simple proposition again. i don't know what the hell do0t. we are not their enemies.

nobody's threatening iran. nobody. so at the beginning they nominated two satans, theyávñprd best. okay. but center of supporting every terryou know by the way they are young people and they too i'm not sure agree with the present policy. but right now we have to stand and prevent iran from becoming a nuclear, not because they are inferior people but because they're the only country that threatens another state to destroy. nobody threatens them, they threaten others. and i was really glad that the

meeting with the president he spoke very clearly about the subject that he will not dominate iran to become a nuclear country that there's nuclear bombs. >> rose: and you feel confident therefore that israel should not have to take it into its own hands to prevent iran fromunited states will. >> no. i think iran is a danger to the whole÷3y i mean it's not a simple question, you know. nobody wants another hiroshima. nobody. and since america is the most responsive country, it'sl[that e are not outer people but the

living fallsunited states of am. so it'cx not that we don't want another ones, but there is a all the danger and some people are sympathetic to iran. now iran has own problems too. syria and iraq. doesn't mean that theutworld isd submit to your ambihso we disco. >> rose: does it matter to you that you're now the most popular you have ever been? >> it's confusing, you know. [laughter] >> rose: all of a sudden you're leaving office#h.the mosr been. >> but you know, i said it

whether, it>s + in my eyes':like perfume.jr+a nice to;$#g smell dangerous lee quickly. nowadays is not to be -- not saying i'm great i'm strong because if you say it, it will come on. can you blame -- i'm not sure. can you bring an end tsocial de. so what makes you think you're such a powerful man. today to be a public servant, you have to sell the,pbzqto woo. i believe we have the same -- because people believe -- i'm not runningíambition. >> rose: let me just say, i can never express to you the full appreciation of the people

in this room for your service. and we thank you for that. [applause] captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

a kqed television production. like old fisherman's wharf. reminds me of old san francisco. like jean val jean. >> theeries and cholesterol and -- calories and cholesterol and heart attack. >> like an adventure. >> it remind me of oatmeal with a touch of wet dog. >> i did inhale it.