>> rose: welcome to the program. tonight, a conversation with the artist jeff koons. >> i like my senses to get excited, and physically, i like to feel sensation. my eyes, i like excitement. i like from the senses to start to have ideas generated that, the mind and body together. but then there's a point where you take on a moral responsibility to your community. i mean, i've already learned how to feel sensation myself and feel transcendence in my life. and automatically then you want to share that, you know. first, you know, when you're younger, you think about sharing it with other artists and you share with a broader community. >> rose: jeff koons for the

hour, next. >> and by bloomberg. a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: jeff koons is having a moment. the "new yorker "magazine calls him the most original, controversial, and expensive american artist of the past three and a half decades. his playful and provocative work pushes the bounds.

his sculpture balloon dog orange sold for $58.4 million. it is the most expensive piece of art sold pie a living artist at auction. and the whitney museum presenting koons' first retrospective. the here is a look.

>> you know, i always like the way they make me feel. i feel like i come into contact with my feelings and i've always loved them. >> rose: when you see all that you have done, and you know it's there in that museum, what do you think? >> you know, it's been nice for me to look at some of the images because, you know, i don't live with all of those pieces. so a lot of them are kind of just fresh to me again. >> rose: owned by collectors. >> owned by collectors and, you know, i tend to live with other art, art by other artists. i'm in my studio all day long, i'm around my work, so i don't live directly with my work. but, you know, it shows to me that it's been. >> -- it's been fun. i think i've been doing exactly what i've been wanting to do. and it makes me feel more ambition. i mean, i really would like to

do something. i really want to put something on the table, and i think i've been having a dialogue, but i want to do more. >> rose: is it a thing or is it just simply many things? in order, are you waiting, are you inspired? do you have something that has been there that you just can't wait to get on with the creation and you know what it is? >> yeah, it's-- it's to exercise the freedom that we have for gesture, to, you know, experience the-- kind of the greatest amount of enlightenment that we can, and to to do the things that know-- what i really want to do in life. and to do it. and it's-- the things that you really want to do are the hardest things to do. >> rose: but haven't you been doing what you really want to do for a while? >> i've been trying, you know, but i think that you can get better at it. you can get freer at it. you can give yourself more freedom.

i think picasso gave himself the most amount of freedom, you know, when he was 88, 89, 90 years of age. i mean, it's astounding how much freedom that he gave himself. and -- >> what do you mean by "freedom he gaifs himself?" >> his works are so laird. they're so accomplished. they have so much energy. they have the energy of like a 24-year-old but with all the wisdom and the knowledge and the layering that somebody who really has kind of a cognitive consciousness and so vast. i moon, the vast amount of human information are in those late works, such a desire and possibilities of telling us what you can contribute to your own life and to your community. and at such a late age. i mean it's -- >> working on this retrospective, has it informed and you given you insight into

self? >> yes. >> rose: because it's there together. it's a lifetime. it's in relationships. >> uh-huh. you know, i think about how my kind of journey as an artist started, and it started by not having any idea of art, what the fine arts are. art was presented to me really as a tool to draw, to replicate something, maybe to draw that coffee cup. and when i was really young, you know, i drew something like that, and my parent came up and kind of patted me on the back. and that gave me a sense of self. but it wasn't until i even got into college that i had any understanding that art is something much vaster. it's something that connects you. so effortlessly to your community, to your society, and t you can deal with all the

human discipline so effortsly. you can deal in psychology and philosophy and sociology. the works at the whitney are trying to have a discourse in a wide variety area of the human disciplines of what it means to be a human being and to flourish. >> rose: you speak often about art for you is how it's received by the individual. >> i think it's kind of how i feel as a creator. we were talking about zeppelin before. i like to feel. i like my senses to get excited and physically i like to feel sensation, my eyes-- i like excitement. i like from the senses to have ideas generated that the mind and body together. but then there's a point where you take on a moral responsibility to your community. i mean, i've already learned how to feel sensation myself, and feel transcendence in my life.

and automatically, then you want to share that. you know, you-- first, you know, when you're younger, you think about sharing it with other artists, and then you share with a broader community. >> rose: is the reason you're doing this now is because the whitney was available, you now have the technology to do it or you just simply found yourself at a moment where you had enough and wanted you to see it in the entirety at a venue? >> i've wanted to have a show in new york for quite some time. and, you know, there were different opportunities, but i think when the whitney came to me with the space and they made -- >> the entire museum. >> yes, which is fantastic because, you know, charlie i've been working for, you know, many decades, and i think that we're showing probably about 35 years' worth of work, and i've tended to work on different scales from small things to larger things. but it was a chance to really bring everything together, and i've shown a lot in europe.

i've shown a lot, you know, in france and in germany. put i haven't-- but i haven't in my home town where i'm kind of on the ground as an artist. this is really my community. >> rose: and you're intimately involved in this installation. >> absolute. i worked very closely with scott rothed kroft, and scott was great to work with. we worked closely -- >> it is true it's not easy to put your stuff up-- a, because of size and weight and delicacy. and you need technology and you need a bunch of other things, yes? >> that's correct. that's correct. the whitney was fantastic to work with. they never said no that maybe-- if i would have said, "i would like to show this work" they never said, "we can't do that. there's a problem with the budget. there's a problem having that expense. of they were fantastic. >> rose: you were working right up until the end.

you completed some of these how many months before they were installed? >> some of them days. ( laughter ) i mean, months, that's a long time. >> rose: this is not just a retrospective. it's an up-to-date retrospective. play-doh was just finished. >> we just finished that. >> rose: liberty. >> the liberty bell we just finished, too. we finished that inside of the museum, some of the pieces there. it's kind of natural. you work on things and you try to put as much energy into them as you can and finish them to the highest level you can. >> rose: you don't want people to be intimidated by art. >> absolutely not. i remember my first day of college, and, again, i had no idea what art could be. and as soon as i arrived at school, we basically signed our papers that we're enrolled. and we got on a bus and went to the baltimore museum. sp when we got there, i went inside the museum, and i looked at paints, and i didn't know

any of the artists. i didn't know brock. i didn't know sezahn. i didn't know batiste. i feel like i survived that moment. a lot of people are decide descroid by that. they didn't survive that moment. i just wanted to make work that people would not feel they had to bring anything to the table other than who they are and who they are up to that moment, that they're perfect, that, you know, it's-- the art is about them. it's about their possibility, and to empower people. , not to disempower by you have to know this. >> rose: that's my point about-- when you said, "first it's about me." that's my point. you really care about how people respond to art and to your art. what impact it has on them. >> first, i care about my experience first because i-- i love to make the things. i love the expansion. i love the transcendence that i

feel, expanding my parameters, my interests. , my feeling. but then i want to share that. and so it's not that i set out to make something-- it's not a conscious way of going about. it's very, very intuitive. i follow my interests, and i focus on those interests. and it takes me to a really kind of very met physical place that i come into contact, i think, with archetypal, universal kind of language. >> rose: if somebody writes a piece and says, "jeff's work lacks intellectual rigor, "do you give a damn? >> well, i care in that i never want to hughes anybody. and when i say that i really believe i'm involved in communication. and i'm trying as a human being, to the best of my abilities, to my limitations, to make the best work i can and to try to bring

about something positive and informing, you know, to my life and to the community. so i never want to lose anyone. i know my intentions, my moral intentions are sound, and i really want to try to contribute something. so i feel like i've lost somebody. but do i care past that? gion. you know, i just go on. >> rose: and words like "showman" and "salesman." >> i go on. i know that there's a certain visual quality. there's an attractive quality, an attention quality, maybe like a spotlight quality. but in a way that's just to compete with the rest of the world. i mean, you know, you you have hollywood or you have all these other realms of information, and they attract attention. my works-- they enjoy the presentation of themselves.

>> rose: but i mean you once said you liked the idea of selling. >> well, i think sales is coined of the front line of society. i mean, it's kind of the moral front line of society. my movers really are making reference to the door-to-door salesman that would come knocking. >> rose: sell you a vacuum cleaner. >> and sell you a vacuum cleaner. it's kind of like the front line there. >> rose: you said the front line of morality and everything else in the culture that it was the in fact kind of a way of connecting. >> you know, as a child, i was brought up to be self-reliant. and i would sell drinks on a golf course, you know. i would go door to door selling gift wrapping paper, and kind of a lot of the images that are in my celebration work-- bows, ribbons, candies. so, you know, i learned to be kind of self-reliant. and then it automatically, when you're self-reliant, you want

to-- you want to go outside yourself and you become more involved in your society and your community. >> rose: but you're huge now. some people have written-- i'm thinking of carl swawbson in "the new york "magazine. the art establishment doesn't just ignore the work of the unknown artist but that of the world famous, especially koons and others, who have become so big and so rich it no longer seems important to have opinions of them." can you appreciate that, that you really-- you stand above the art establishment? >> well, it's-- i don't -- >> you're that big. >> i don't know about that. i always just wanted to participate, charlie. you know, the idea, like the avant-garde. i wanted to get in there and have a dialogue with dahli, andlicaten stein and picasso and just be part of this dialogue. that's what is really exciting

and rewarding. i don't think things are that pig -- >> you don't think you're that big? >> i think i have a program as an artist. >> rose: you just cited the fact you sold the highest price. i sooipted the fact you have a retrospective in an entire museum. that by any artist's imagination is huge. >> you know, yes. i mean, it's a tremendous platform, but at the same time, i want to do something. i mean, i really want to do something. >> rose: it's not about being huge. it's about doing something. >> yeah, it's about becoming. i really want to make my work-- i want to make work that really can affect the lives of people. i really believe in mobility. i made bodies of work on mobility. i believe in enlightenment. i hope the viewer comes across my work and it stimulated, stimulated in whatever manner, you know, eric candle, our friend. >> rose: right. >> speaks about the beholder's share. so they can come.

they can look at a work, and i can have certain information being communicated to them, but then, you know, it's about-- it's about themselves. it's about their interests, their desires, and that they can walk away feeling stimulated and feel that they can expand their life. i mean, that's really what i'm interested in. >> rose: but at the same time, that's reality of what impact you have. david werner of here and he said you are a catalyst of our culture, a catalyst of our culture. and when a viewer engages with your work, you really know where we are and what we are. >>, you know, as a human being, as an artist, i try to be honest. and i just try to go about my life and make the works about the things that i respond to. and, you know, i have a family that's really important to me, you know, so my life is about

being with them and enjoy life and looking at things. >> rose: i know. >> so i go about and i look at things, and what i respond to, i carry with me. and then eventually, i'll make a gesture, and i'll make an art work based on those interests. and usually things resonate for maybe up to about two years before i actually make the gesture. i'm thinking about things, and finally it will be of a relerance to me that, okay, i'm ready. >> rose: people talk. a kind of success, of your ability to somehow identify or nail an image or an object as a-- something that captures the zeitgeist of the moment. do you feel any of that, that that's what's happening? >> i mean, all of these things, you know, as an artist, it's nice. it's flattering to hear some of it. i look back and i have to say i'm proud of some of the works,

that i think some of them today look kind of iconic. i think the rabbit looks iconnick. >> rose: and has an impact beyond itself. >> but if this is happening, charlie, i remember when i first had some success, and i was interviewed and somebody said to me, "jeff, okay, you have success right now. aren't you afraid you're going to lose it?" and i thought it's such an odd thing to say to a young artist who had that kind of success. so i started to think about what do i do? what is the process that i do as an artist? and i think the process is the same for whatever anybody does, whether you're an artist or whether you're a mathematician, or whatever. and i think the only thing you can do is follow your interests. i followed my interests. from my childhood in pennsylvania. whenever my parents or extended family directed me, i follow my

interests. >> rose: dawley was an influence. >> he was an influence by representing an internal journey that i learned to go inward, and to accept myself. i mean, kind of da-da surrealism, the inward journey, the beginning of the 20th searchry. and also his generosity as a person. when i was about 18 i called him up. i learned that he stayed at the st. regis hotel and i called him and asked if i could visit him and he answered the phone and said, "yes,", you know, "come up on saturday. i'll meet you in the lobby." and sure enough he was there. he asked me if i would go to the gallery where he had an exhibition. i went there, and he posed for some photos. and that generosity to this kid from pennsylvania, i went home thinking i can do this.

i can participate, too. i can live a life like this, be involved with ideas and art and it can be a way of life. tremendous generosity. >> rose: you have to admit, it took something to call up salvador dahli. not everybody calls him up at the hotel and says, "mr. dahli, this is jeff koons. i just would like to meet you." it requires a certain-- i mean, i think a quality of self. when you look at the consequence it had, you realized that you could have that kind of life, that you'd have to work and that you would have to be creative and that you would have to be fully engaged, but you could have that kind of life. >> that's all i've ever wanted. that's what i'm doing today. i'm trying to participate in this kind of tradition, kind ofap extension of the avant-garde. >> rose: is that what caused you to move to new york?

>> absolutely. >> i went to art school in baltimore, maryland, and then to the art institute of chicago, because i loved ed paschke, and i studied with whitney holston, but at a certain point i wanted to stop going on an inward journey, and i wanted to be involved with more of an objective art, and so i moved to new york. >> rose: and when did you become familiar with duchon? >> in art school. but when i moved to new york, i would say when i was living here, i was getting more of an influence from europe, maybe-- maybe the way of europeans viewed duchamp, getting a greater influence there through friends and poets i would hang out with. and i really started to look at the idea of the ready-made.

and robert smithson's work, and a huge impact, looking at work -- >> just soaking up things. >> yes, yes, a sponge. >> rose: yes. where did the idea for the inflatables come from? >> i believe that in my childhood that around three or four, that i put a vacuum cleaner in the toilet. and that i got into a little trouble. and that's my recollection. >> rose: you put a vacuum cleaner in the toilet? >> in the toilet. and got into a little trouble. and so i think the idea of the vacuum and a sense of kind of breathing machines or-- the first inflatable i used was in a piece i called, "if i told you once, i told you twice." it was a painting i made that got so large i couldn't have it on the wall anymore so i took it

off the wall and i created a table for it to sit it on, and i put an inflatable elephant on one side and an inflatable panda bear. and actually, the first time i used pors lip, too, i had little porcelain figurine there. so it has a lot of images and materials they even like to work with today. but that would have been in 19-- late '77. >> rose: you and i have talked about this before, but i'd love to in the context of the retrospective, talk about it "made in heaven "and your relationship and your son who you in a sense lost through court battles to italy. what impact did all of that have on you? >> well, when i ended up into kind of a custody situation with my son, he was born here in the state, and then he was taken

illegally to italy. >> rose: by his mother. >> by his mother. and i was never able to get him back. >> rose: the italian supreme court final i think finally decided that. >> i won custody but he was there in italy for so long, they would never send him back. so it was a period i was really losing confidence in humanity, and i had only my art to hang on to. and so that's what i hung on to. and i decided to make things to try to communicate to him that if not at this moment, in the future, he could realize how much i was thinking about him. but at the same time, you know, i wanted to make works that could hold up in a larger context of making art because at the same time, i wanted to be his dad who is also an artist performing on a level of making great works. but a piece like play-doh, my son ludwig, i brought him some play-doh during a visitation,

and he made a mound, and he said, "dad." and i turned and said, "what?" and he said, "look, viola." i looked at this mound of play-doh and, charlie, it was something i try to do every day of my like, to make something you couldn't make any generals about. is it too much red, too much blue, is i is the shape right? it was perfect. i ended up going back to my studio and making that mound. but balloon dog. i think that there's a mythic quality in balloon dog. there's an interior kind of dark quality to it, a little bit like a trojan horse, you know. so that series i was trying to maintain my confidence, my belief in humanity, to show my son how much i loved him, and at the same time, to be performing on, you know, the highest level that i could. >> rose: is your attraction to his mother simply what's always

about people who are attracted to each other? you can't explain it? it just has the own notion that only the two of them understand? >> umean to eleona at the time? >> yes. >> eleona was an extremely beautiful woman. she was very attractive. when we started the "made in heaven" photo shoots. i called her and hired her as a model. she was very vulnerable, and told me how she got involved in pornography as a very young woman and how she wanted a different life and, you know, we fell in love. we ended up in a short period of time-- we had ludwig, and eventually, we realized this wasn't going to work out. but, you know, i was in love with eleona. >> rose: did "made in heaven" help or hurt your career? >> that i don't know.

as an artist, i think i became a better artist. i love the bourgeois bust. it's based on a hunan sculpture of a couple kissing. the paintings, i'm very proud of the work and i think i came out of it as a better human being. i have my wife jus teen today, and my family. she's my muse today so i have a very, very happy love life. >> rose: what about war on-- warhol? what influence did he have? >> andy, when he came to the city, i never wanted to go to the factory or hang out. i looked up at the window and thought wow. there's andy. i met him superficially twice. studio 54 and once in an elevator somewhere. so i knew that, you know, there's a dialogue in the

relevance of his work. i always thought of duchamp as kind of the grandfather and he had kind of a son and you had andy and, you know, i'm kind of a grandson then, you know. so kind of following in the tradition of the ready made and that dialogue. >> rose: and today, i mean, we'll talk about some of the specific pieces, but today you're a physical nut-- i mean, you work out. you're very concerned about living a long and happy life because you said you wanted to be as creative as you can gointo your late 80s. >> i have all these children, too. >> rose: how many, eight now, or nine? >> i have a total of eight. but i have six young ones at home and they range from almost two, just next month one will be two, and my oldest is 13. >> rose: when you look to the future, what do you think? system the work, the work, the

work? >> it's the life, you know. it's the life, the life. and a major portion of my life is the work. my mental interest, what i can have my life become, what human being i can become, what i can give to my society, to my culture. you know, it's through the work. and so i would say the last decade, especially, you know t the-- the kind of idea of more of an internal aspect that the subjective and the objective really become full circle. they kind of encircle each. and so i live a way of just going about my life kind of daily with not under a lot of pressure-- oh, i have to do something today-- and just, you know, have my kind of goal set to make the pieces that i want to make, what i'm thinking about

and to do them. >> rose: does anything bother you? >> um...... well i would say stagnation, you know, bothers me. i think injustice bothers me, you know. i do think that i've been involved with the work that's very much about kind of leveling. i've tried to make art accessible to people-- not accessible in dumbing something down. i'm trying to enrich myself and my vocabulary of art every day to the fullest that i can to know more about antiquities and what art can be. charlie, that's really what i'm involved with, what art can be, and to try to make art something as vital and as engaged in our lives as possible. but i think i've been involved in this high-low discourse and trying to make art that everybody can not feel intimidated by it but can have an experience that's absolutely to the capacity that at that moment they're ready for.

>> let me talk about some of the images we have here. this is the inflatable flowers, 1979. just tell me about this. >> when i first moved to new york and i started to become very influenced-- i was looking at the work by robert smithed son, and robert morris, so i sold these inflatable flowers in a showroom, and the showroom only sold inflatables, and they were sold for inflatable flowers for modern home decor. my father, henry koons, was an interior decorator. so i grew up that he would just display objects in his furniture store, you know, just have a light displaying itself as a light, an ashtray is an ashtray, or a table a table. and i was intrigued with making these objects and let them display themselves. i think when you look at it, it's kind of metaphoric. one is kind of feminine and one

is a little more masculine. >> rose: next, hoover. >> this is a double-decker. >> rose: yes. >> and these pieces, i was displaying objects for their newness. and this was an ultimate state of being and to confront the viewer with aspects of, you know, mortality and the strengths of something that's inanimate against something that's animate. and these objects display their integrity of birth from-- i would unpack them. i would put them in this display place. this white, cool light display. and they're diplaying their integrity at birth. >> after making the vacuum cleaner pieces, i wanted to make a body of work, the equilibrium work that was more biological, and so this is a little more masculine way of looking at consumerism, too. this is prebirth. this is before the new, and it's

also after death. this is really kind of a timeless situation here, again, an ultimate state of being. and the ball's in equilibrium. it's hovering in a fish tank. >> rose: did you consult with richard mineman about this? >> i did. i saw some paper you put in the back of a fish tank. and i thought i'm going to draw a basketball on that. and that was the beginning of kind of equilibrium. i thought how can i have this state of equilibrium where the ball can be there forever? i and read in "time" magazine that dr. fein man enjoyed art. so i called him up, and he told me i could do it, that i could have a basketball hover in a fish tank in equilibrium, in one liquid. so i kept looking. i searched, i searched. i continued to be in contact with him, but it's really

impossible. silicon oil was the liquid with the greatest density gradient on itself. and i would need a much higher tank than the fish tank. but he was fantastic. >> and ended up using just very pure sodium. so there's a density gradient. it's not a homogeneous solutions, separate solutions. but the way light travels through the water, it's very hard to see that the water down below is heavier because of sodium. so the ball is too light to sink to the bottom but it's too heavy to go to the top. >> rose: perfect. i love the idea you just called up richard fineman and said, "i read where you love art, and my name is jeff koons"-- >> he was great upon. i was in the library. i was cawg green at m.i.t. i was call all these doctors, professors -- >> to understand equilibrium. >> and to try to achieve it upon.

i wasn't able to achieve perfect equilibrium. i could-- i wanted to stay with one liquid andipped to stay with water. >> rose: we saw the inflaizables with the prenew. with the hoover we saw the new. and the next one is aquibacardi from 1986. >> i was riding the subway in new york, and i realized that depending on the stops and the economic environment of the city, that advertising was using abstraction at different levels, depending on the income level of that location. so people who at that time made $10,000 or less would see images look aqua bacardi. and the type of abstraction

taking place here, it's like, you know, take your weekly paycheck, gamble, throw things up in the air. take things as they can. it's really about risk, and that's the form of abstraction. as you would go up economically and to a higher level of society, which was grand central station, they would have a fran jellica. a frangelica painting, you would get to an image like that and be hit with a much heavier form of abstraction where it would just be like a wave of liquor, and there would be a little sexual information in the wave, put you would also be disconnected from your society. it would say like, "stay in tonight. of another frangelica ad, "find another quiet table." >> rose: how long is it between idea and execution? >> i think things generally resonate for about two years.

and when i'm carrying around for a period of time, i would have a show every two years, sometimes, but the information that getting ready to maybe start to make a gesture on, been carrying for two years, but there's some overlap there. >> rose: this is louie xiv. >> i found louie xiv on canal street. canal street used to have a lot of plastics. so it was a fiberglass cast, and it was probably for a restaurant or somebody's backyard, fiberglass. and i saw louie, and maybe a couple of days later, i saw the small statue of bob hope. and when i saw bob hope and louis i realized they're the two end of a dialogue, kind of a panoramic view, you know if you

give art to a monarch, eventually it will become reflective of their ego and become decorative. if you give art to the masses, it will reflect mass ego, which bob hope represented. if he was telling a joke, he would tell it-- maybe subjectively he thought it was funny but because he got the biggest joke the night before in vegas, and eventually it would become reflect itch of mass ego, and eventually the same thing would happen to the artist. >> this was made for your first show, correct? >> yes. >> i think one of the things i always tried to do, charlie, was i would direct my work to dealers that had interest in the same areas that i had interest. i mean, i wouldn't have interest

in, say, photo narrative work and go to a dealer that just showed abtraction, you know. >> rose: right, right. >> i think a lot of artists make the mistake, they go and get involved in a community that can really have very different interests than what they have. the community, all the artists and friends, you know, we'd sit around and we'd talk about art and have some wiers and you discuss art. and it's really like a whole generation in a way, moving forward with their it ideas, the way they see the possibilities for art, the way they see the world. >> rose: the next image is michael jackson and bubbles in 1988 from the series banality. tell me about michael jackson. >> the banality show-- i made a piece right before banality, and it was a piece that was a fiasco. i made a mold on a ready-made statue, and when it got casted

it banged upon against the wall to get the ceramic shell off and it deformed the piece. i had to decide whether to drop out of a major expectation, or give it radical plastic surgery and make it presentable. for me, up to this moment, everything you've been looked at, charlie, and showing images of, they're ready-mades. everything exists in the world. i would work with something and try to maintain of aspect of it. when the cip and curl became such a failure it freed me because i realized it was just metaphor, and what i really cared about was people. i cared about the viewer, and they were the ready-made and people, their flaws, their perfections, that they are perfect. and i was freed. it was a tremendous experience,

i made michael jackson and bubbles. upon i made all of these works that tried to communicate very clearly to people that their own cultural history was perfect it's renaissance sculpture, the triangle, and i thought about it as the piata. it has an egyptian call the quality to it. a little bit like king tut. >> rose: here's one we saw, we talked about "made in heaven" with you and elena. >> after banality, i had a huge success with that show, and people would way it was equivalent tolicaten stein's shoi. so i really became an art star, but at the same time, culturally, not feeling participating in that culture.

so the entertainment industry has been kind of looked at as being culturally significant. and i thought maybe i could put another star on my shoulder and the easiest way would be film. the whitney asked me if i would have an interest in an exhibition, if i wanted to make billboards for the city, and i could do anything i wanted on the billboard. and they said sure. i thought i'll call the italian politician-- i used images of eleona. >> rose: in a magazine. >> one of my-- i thought, i'll call that woman up and just, you know, use her kind of as a ready-made, use her sets as a ready-made, the whole situation, and i'll put myself in there, and we'll make it like we're making a film and i thought i'd

call it "made in heaven." i called her up and hired her. >> rose: the next one is balloon dog yellow, 1994-2000. one of the more famous, i think. >> it's like a child's birthday party. you blow up a balloon. but i've always enjoyed inflatables. i've enjoyed vacuum cleaners, things deal with lungs, breathing. you know, it's kind of anthroit pomorphic, it relates to -- >> you have said when it's exhausted, when the air goes out, it's almost an imagery for death. >> now it's optimism. it's going to be like that tomorrow and the day after tomorrow, and so it has that very strong opt mitch, and it's mythic. but, yes, when an inflatablealizes the air, it's a symbol of death. >> rose: the form is similar to a trojan horse. is that also sort of an image or

an idea of darker themes? >> i think that when i would just use stainless steel and polish the surface it's more about the surface. you're not involved in the interior light. but in celebration, like the balloon dog, and different metal celebration pieces, when i give this transparent coating to it they become darker and develop an interior life. there is a darkness there, more of an internal quality. >> rose: there is also from celebration, play-doh. the sculpture we see on the mound of play-doh is the one that ludwig, you mentioned before, constructed and gave to you, right? >> he made a mound. he didn't make this exact one. >> rose: i know, but something like that. but that mound was connected to the inspiration for this? >> that's right. i went back to my studio and i made this mound.

i recraected and enlarge it. i was originally going to put it in polyethylene. a lot of times they make toys for children where they can have their own cars or playhouses in the backyard. they kind of have adult fantasies. as continued to work on the model i gave it undercuts, where i no longer had the 2%, 3% draft that i needed to pull the mold so i made a conscious decision to make it hyperrealistic and ended up changing it and put it into aluminum. i think play-doh to me kind of represents the 20th century. it's kind of freudian. the mounds are piled up on top of each other, very freudian type quality. and it has an interior being, too. each mound has an inside-facing top-bottom, how they construct themselves organically.

it has a freudian call the, but i think it kind of has a 20th century fullness to it. >> rose: not 10 years, but 20 years. 20 years you worked on this. >> yeah. >> rose: the next one is "split rocker, owner and red" 1999 from the series easy fun. >> in my bedroom at home, my son had a rocking horse. and i would look at the rocking horse, and where the mold, seam line between the rocking horse, and the two sides of it ran right down the center. and one day i was walking around and saw this dino rocker, and i thought wouldn't it be interesting to cut the rocker down the center and to put these two profiles together. now, this is also during the time of the divorce, custody, and i think i can look at it and realize kind of one is maybe myself, maybe one is the ex-wife. or at least the sense of

division of what was taking place. and, you know, the line that happens in between is-- where these two forms come together, i always thought picasso andlicaten stein would kind of appreciate. you can draw and define it but the only way is to experience it. >> rose: one more slide, this is 2002. >> a painting. and, you know, i've always been a painter. when i went to art school, i always studied painting. i had never studied sculpture. i made my first sculptures when i moved to new york, those inflatable flowers. and so i'm always making paintings. and these are kind of a montage of images. and when i was making ethereal paintings, i would go through thousands of magazines and look at images and if an image had a

resonance to me i'd pull the page and go on and look through more magazines. i'd start stacking them. i'd go through all these pulled pages and start making stacks where things felt like they went together. so i shot a photograph in the background of some junk yard somewhere-- it was actually in italy-- and these other images ended up being in that pile, and that's how the painting was rated. >> rose: here's an example of how you have influenced a culture. this is a conversation on "60 minutes" from my colleague morley safer. ely road had been a great friend of yours. lots of pieces, what, 30, 40 pieces? >> yes, he's probably the largest collector at this time of my work. >> rose: and at a good moment came in and was there for you when you need ited a friend. >> absolute. >> rose: roll tape. >> one of his favorite artists is the irrepressible jeff koons, and here a veritable corn popia of koonsian genius, all, of

course, painted and sculpted by hired craftsmen. koons is nothing if not worshipful of ely. >> morally and ely, i have to say standing here, what a fantastic location. look at the natural light that's coming in on these works. it's a tremendous gallery. >> and the balloon dog. what does it do to you? do you get some kind of emotional kick? >> i do. it makes me smile. it makes me feel good. it makes me proud. it especially makes me proud when i see young people and others looking at the work and it introduces them to art in a way no other work really does. >> and a piece that, quite honestly, mistifies me. michael jackson and his chimp, is it? >> michael jackson and bubbles. when i made this series, the banality series-- >> a series of banality? >> of images.

i was trying to communicate to people that whatever you respond to, it's perfect. >> if you find koons' art speak just incomprehensible, just wait? >> these are making refnses to being in the womb a little bit, before birth, and prior to any kind of concept of death. >death. >> do you totally get what he's talking about? >> not to the except that jeff does, but i do listen and understand and learn from the artists, especially jeff. >> rose: what we should explain is that my friend morley safer had an ongoing conversation about what was art. and for him, that was a passion. i did not just this but a number of pieces, one very famous piece in which he questioned what exactly is art? do you have a definition for him? >> i think it's a vehicle that helps-- that connects people with their internal light and

the external world. it's a vehicle which helps us fine tune and understand our relationship with both the external and internal lives that we have. >> rose: and when the question comes up about you and damien hearst and others, having other people actually do the work, do you accept damien's idea to me, i think-- maybe you have said this as well-- that architects design buildings and other people build them. how do you see the notion of your participation along with all these other people who work with you in creating a piece of art, in contrast to picasso, who worked alone in a studio. >> charlie, i never just wanted to be in a room by myself. that didn't seem like a very interesting day. so i really like to be around

people. but, you know, i'm-- i like to use this as an analogy. like the way i move my fintertips is the way of working with people. and it's really my responsibility to inform them exactly what i'm looking for, and to set up systems so they can perform exactly the way to exercise the vision that i have. and that you can articulate and achieve that goal. and it's no different than articulating and achieving the goal of moving my fingers, just the way i am right now, and to be able to do that with people, to have an extension. i mean, i'm able to affect the lives of a lot of people. i work with hundreds of people. i mean, i'm not just working alone in a room. i have 130 people at my studio. there are another 100 and some people that work at the foundry in germany other and companies i work with. so really i'm affectingalize lives of a lot of people. everybody is getting a better understanding of art.

we're creating these things. i first started also to work with people when i went to a foundry, and to cast something, and i realized, you know, i don't have a foundry. i don't have the facilities to cast it myself, so you learn how to work with people and trust working with people. >> rose: jeff koons a retrospective is on view at the whitney museum until october 2014. someone once said art is in the eye of the beholder. someone else said obviously every work of art affects everybody in a very, very different way, and that is what is remarkable about art, that somehow is connected to your own sen of life and your sense of how you see yourself and your experiences. it speaks to you in that context. clearly, when one museum devotes it's entire building at a time when it's making a huge move downtown, it is worth going. nothing is more talked about in

the art world today than what jeff koons has done and this retrospective. that alone is enough to make you want to say what in the world are they talking about? let me go experience for myself. it runs, again, until october 19, 2014. i'm deeply appreciative of jeff coming here for this conversation. thank you. >> thank you, charlie. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

man: it's like holy mother of comfort food.ion. woman: throw it down. it's noodle crack. patel: you have to be ready for the heart attack on a platter. crowell: okay, i'm the bacon guy. man: oh, i just did a jig every time i dipped into it. man #2: it just completely blew my mind. woman: it felt like i had a mouthful of raw vegetables and dry dough. sbrocco: oh, please. i want the dessert first! [ laughs ] i told him he had to wait.