>> charlie: welcome to the program. assumer ends, we take this time to look back at some of the best moments in our program. tonight in our encore presentation as u.s.a. basketball prepares for the world cup in spain, we look back at my past conversations with magic johnson, charles barclay, lebron james and carmelo anthony. >> i think that i had the best overall game. >> charlie: you're thinking about going to the basket now. are you also thinking about who was there that you could pass off to? >> i react to what they do. they've got to give me something. they can't stop everything. >> instead of grabbing it offensive rebound and shooting it, i'm going to pass it back out, and i kept doing that. so now those kids got a chance to score, and that taught me a valuable lesson of leading even at that time.

>> charlie: yeah. i'm big on space. i'm big on trading space. i know if i get a certain amount of space, then i have a chance to put the ball in the hole, and that's the scoring mentality. >> i can remember just five years ago going to china and just recently being there a few weeks ago, how the game has just broadened in just five years. it's huge. >> i think the simplest way to say it is to learn your lessons. if you make a mistake or something worked for you, that's got to go in your memory bank so next time you're more equipped to deal with the situation. >> from playing in the nba, i can speak from experience there are no nights off. you're playing against some of the most finely-tuned athletes night in and night out and if you don't bring your a game, you will be embarrassed. >> charlie: the best in basketball when we continue.

>> and by bloomberg. a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. (cheering) >> charlie: this is from bill bradley forward to this book -- of all the players who ever

played the game of basketball, bill russell is the first player i would pick to start a team. >> well, modestly speaking -- >> charlie: we don't care about modesty around here. >> -- that seems to be the consensus. >> charlie: what is it bill russell, modestly speaking, brought to the court? that is the consensus, you start with russ. >> after i heard it, my first reaction was to start laughing. (laughter) >> charlie: believing it but laughing. >> and saying, now, if this is the case, why? what could i do that would be the foundation of a good team? and i think that i had the best

overall game. so that i could do -- for example, you may have seen the special on h.b.o. -- >> charlie: about you. right. one of the things i said before the last game was we're going to beat the lakers tonight, and the way we're going to beat them is we're going to run. >> charlie: right. and that was just the indication of the teams i've played on could play any style, and we were proficient at any style. we could run with the best of them or we could play half court offense and defense with the best of them or we could blend it and we could target the other

team's game. in other words, like if we're playing a certain team and we see their strengths and weaknesses, we have a system to target their weaknesses so that we could beat teams because we knew how to play them. >> charlie: you could say you could execute but you were smarter than most of the people playing? maybe not you individually but maybe i do mean you individually. you understood that? >> it is far more important to understand than to be understood. >> charlie: you said that well. >> so we go out there and we say, what do you do? this is a team game, we play basketball, and we want to play to win. you, see, professional athletes are paid to win, they're not paid to play. and a lot of guys think that they're paid to play, but they are paid to win, and if you win,

then everything comes to you. >> charlie: how does bill want to remember bill? >> well, very early in my career, i found that winning as a team concept is the only important thing because if i go out one night and i get 30 points and 35 rebounds and we lose, that's -- >> charlie: it's a downer. yeah. and people have asked me, what's your best game of basketball? i really gave it serious thought and i concluded that when i was in 11th grade and i was third string center and we won -- >> charlie: 11th grade, you were the third string center? >> i got cut from junior

varsity. >> charlie: why was that? because you hadn't -- >> i couldn't play. those guys were better. >> charlie: okay, well... but my coach was one of the great things that happened to me. >> charlie: michael didn't make the team when he was a sophomore, i don't think, in high school. >> like, i grew from 5'10" in sixth grade to 6'10" in the 12th grade. so every day was an adventure. we were champions. i did not play a single minute in the tournament, never left the bench in the whole tournament, but when they gave us the blue basketballs, and said, you're the champions, i can never surpass that thrill. >> charlie: why? it was just so -- i couldn't sleep for three days. i would just look at it.

>> charlie: do you think that's because you were part of a champion? >> i was part of a championship team. >> charlie: invisible man. what does thatçó mean? >> well, in order to be effective, if you're the star, there are times you have to be invisible. and, for example, in basketball, for the celtics, we would have this fast break going, okay, and we're really running. i'm getting the rebound and i let it pass. as soon as i pass the ball off, i'm out of the picture. >> charlie: yeah. so my three guys or four guys go down and in five seconds they've got a basket. well, in that situation, i'm completely invisible, and

although i say i want to be the star, yo i have to be a star ine way that my teammates can play and do what they do. see, i can't be a star that always has to have the ball, always has to be the one everybody's focusing on. (cheering) >> charlie: you once defined your most important talent as your competitiveness, your will to win, beyond all the other thingsish that will to win. can you be satisfied, having accomplished all that you have if you don't have the championship? bird has it, magic has it, michael has it. >> people try to say if you don't win a championship, your career is not complete. i don't believe that. number one, i'm a sensitive

person because i made it from alabama to the top of the nba -- >> charlie: and there were not many people in leads, alabama, when you were growing up that you would be the most valuable player. >> nobody in the world including myself that thought this would happen. >> charlie: and your grandmother. >> my grandmother thought it was the raisein'. i don't think i would have reached the level. but i look at dan morino, ted williams, ernie banks, robin, those are the greatest guys. if you're not on a team good enough to win, you won't win. that's the bottom line. paul with the blue jays is one of the greatest guys ever. he just wasn't on a team to win it. >> charlie: tell me about it, though. we all know it's true. but winnin winning the champions the most important goal you have in your career? >> the reason is because i would

feel like it's not for the fans, it's not for anyone. it's like a little deal i have with god because he's given me an unbelievable gift, and for me, it would kind of be like i could say everything you gave me, i took it to the fullest extent that i could. >> charlie: i did my best with it, god. >> i did my best. because i hate to see guys who god gave them a special gift who waste it. if i met god, i would say, i did not waste my talent, i took it as far as it could take me and i accomplished everything i possibly could. that's the only reason i want to win the world championship. >> charlie: you talk about being a role model and you said, i shouldn't be a role model to these kids. they shouldn't look up to me. they ought to look up to their parents. why did you say that? >> number one, that's probably the best thing i've done since i have been an athlete. i probably get 4,000 to 5,000

letters a week. you can't please everybody. that's the thing i've learned. half the people are going to like it and half the people won't. i don't care about the other 50%. i try to make a positive influence on the other 50%. what i mean is i think parents are the role models, but there are secondary role models for two reasons. number one, your parents are with you every day and they shape your values and moral beliefs and everything and they have to do btt job. our parents have done a poor job of teaching kids right from wrong and being there for them all the time. two, all these kids think they will be professional athletes. and that's wrong. there might be one, but the rest have to get a job and an education and the parents have to stress that. i think the worst thing about it is we teach black kids the only way they can be successful is through athletics and that's the biggest crime.

>> charlie: or entertainment. entertainment. and we, as black athletes -- and i'm not a racist person -- but we as black athletes have to make the system give something back to the instir and some just back to lower-class people. we're taking, taking, taking and we're not giving back. i think they should start by making these teams give money back to the community, give scholarships every year. i think every nba team should give a million dollars away a year in scholarships minimum. i think they should give tickets to lower-class people, all the orphans and homeless. >> charlie: and someone would say you're making millions a year, how much are you giving back? >> i have a scholarship program at my high school and college. my job is not to raise all of society, but i know i'm giving my part. >> charlie: you're touching some lives. >> i'm touching some lives and, hopefully, if i can help ten, twenty kids with scholarships to

my high school and all, but hopefully i will get a million dollars in my high school and a million dollars at auburn in the next ten years, put it in a fund and let the kids go to college off the interest. that is my goal. >> charlie: would you walk down so that i can for my grandchildren say i once walked on the court with charles barclay? >> sure. >> charlie: let's do that. what's your best? dunk, blocking a shot, hovering over patrick ewing? >> making a big shot in the game. >> charlie: will a 3-point win the game for you? >> no. when everybody in the stands, everybody over here and everybody on the other bench knows you're going to get the ball and you still score. that's a great feeling. i mean, when your team needs a basket and everybody in the building knows the ball is coming to you and you still score. >> charlie: and you know when the ball comes to you.

>> and you say, i've got to score, yes. that's my job. that's how i got to the level i am because i have to make plays like that and i have to do that. >> charlie: no doubt in your sniend. >> nevesniend -- mind. a doubt. if you can't think it, you can't make it happen. >> charlie: would you shoot a 3-pointer or dunk it over somebody? >> i'd rather dunk it. >> charlie: because? it's an easy shot. >> charlie: safer shot? a safer shot. i love shooting 3s but i love to go to the basket. >> charlie: when you are posting up against somebody like that, what should i be thinking if i'm going against you? >> you have to hope i miss. you will never stop me. >> charlie: could you stop me? no question. >> charlie: you could? you're too light for me. how much are you, a

buck-seventy-five? >> charlie: yeah. if i'm behind you -- >> then you're in trouble. >> charlie: where are you going now? >> in that little orange thing. >> charlie: there's nothing i could do. >> no. >> charlie: the west could see this now. >> i would get double every play. >> charlie: there's no possibility. you're going to win? >> oh, i'm going to score. i may miss a shot here and there but i will have a great game. >> charlie: if you are here and thinking about going to the basket, are you thinking about who's there you can pass off to? >> that depends on what the defense does. i react to what they do. they've got to give me something. they can't stop everything. i mean, first of all, 99% of the time, i'm going to get double-teamed. but if they don't double-team me, i'm just going to score on you. >> charlie: if olajuwon is here -- >> doesn't matter. i don't look at him as olajuwon. >> charlie: who do you look at him as, another player?

>> yes. you don't think about who you're playing with. you compete against yourself in life and everything you do. because sometimes, let's see we play a bad team, you can't say, we're not playing a good team, i'm taking it easy. but if you compete against yourself and have high expectations, that's how you keep yourself going. >> charlie: is there one shot you remember more than any other shot you've ever taken? >> not really. the only thing that bugs me is the bulls were double-teaming me in the playoffs and i got the ball three times and they made me pass it. >> charlie: you didn't have a shot. >> i did have a shot. >> charlie: tell me about the skills of michael. >> michael is just a tremendous, one of the five best players i've ever played against. >> charlie: the other four?

kim michael is the best. >> charlie: could gotten over him? >> couldn't stop him. best front line. rt, mckill and paris. warriors. >> charlie: why? because a lot of players, one of the problems in our society today, most people don't want to excel. they just want to get it done a little bit. i love being great at what i do. it feels good. when i look in the mirror, i mean, i don't play for the fans' adulation, i don't play for the phoenix suns, i don't play for my family. when i look in the mirror, i want to say, hey, i did the best i could and i did it well. you can't do it for yourself, for other people, because you want a big house, because you want to drive fancy cars, you just have to have pride and want to be good. >> charlie: want to be the best. >> you just have to want to be the best. >> charlie: why do so few people have that?

>> well, because -- >> charlie: it's defining. it is defining. and it bothers me, because in our society, you know, people are all confused and upset by our kids today. we screwed our kids up. we have taught them that the only way you can be successful is you've got to make a lot of money, and now we're complaining -- >> charlie: therefore, drug dealers are equal role models because they have a fancy car, the right clothes and can buy whatever. >> we tell our kids the only way you can be successful is make a lot of money, have a big house and big car. first of all, that's ignorant. but now our kids are out of control, but it's too late. it's too late. you can't -- these kids are already out there, selling drugs, killing each other for money, for jewelry, for drugs, but we have taught them the only way you can be successful is through money. now we're trying to stop it in midstream. >> charlie: part of the reason they love athletes and entertainers is that they have that, number one -- >> but they've earned it.

>> charlie: of course, they have. >> because they have a special talent and they have earned that. but that doesn't mean -- that's not the only way you can be successful. >> charlie: but somebody needs to point to the surgeon, the businessman, the teachers and the social workers. >> there's only about three important jobs in this world -- pleasemen, firemen and teachers. those are the three really serious jobs. hey, listen, sports aren't that important in the overall scheme of life. we have put sports up on a pedestal. hey, my job is, the way i look at it, people to come to this building for two hours a night, if somebody died in their family the last month, one of their kids giving them trouble or they're just having a bad day, for me it's just to make them have fun. >> charlie: come here two hours and forget everything and watch somebody do what he does as good as anybody. >> and for two hours, that's it. >> charlie: take them away from the hum drum of their daily

life. >> yes, and that's it. and if we win, that's great. if we lose, i lost a basketball game. >> charlie: is it that easy for you? >> it's that easy for me. >> charlie: if you lose tonight. >> i'm going to be mad but i'm going to say, hey, as long as i can look in the mirror and say i did the best i can. (cheering) >> charlie: you're in control. you're in control. you've got that ball in your hand and you know you can make something happen. >> charlie: is that part of what you liked about the position you played? you were the guy who was controlling the game. >> yes. >> charlie: you were bringing it downcourt and you were effectively had lots to say about who took the shot. >> that's the ultimate thing about me playing point guard, i love to dictate who's going to take the shot, the flow of the

game, and also what we're going to do when it's winning time at the last two or three minutes (laughter) >> charlie: but some people said -- first of all, you were big for your position. >> mm-hmm. >> charlie: but, secondly, people said he could have scored a lot more points. you got all the honors you could have possibly had. but the main thing for you was, a, winning, first. >> right. >> charlie: and secondly, you were in control of the game. >> yeah, it was winning, first, and then having it all right in the palm of your hand and you deciding who's going to take the shot, when they're going to take it, how they're going to take it, what play they're going to call to get them in that position to take that shot. so it's just being in control. >> charlie: what was natural about you and what was the result of a lot of practice? >> well, i think that -- >> charlie: you weren't born magic johnson, you became magic johnson. >> exactly. and i put in that time when most kids were off -- you know, while they were still asleep, i used to get up 6:00, 7:00 in the

morning. my parents used to say, you know where he is, at the basketball court already practicing,. >> charlie: with a purpose. exactly, and i would pretend to be, you know, guys. i would go one way as wilt chamberlain and the other as dave who played for the pistons. but i would put in more time and hours and that was my love, the basketball, and i would sleep with that basketball. >> charlie: why would you do that? >> oh, i just had to have it around me. >> charlie: it became second nature to have it. >> exactly. >> charlie: you could feel it even if your sleep. >> yes. so -- and to me, when you talk about leading, i remember when i was playing in the sixth grade, and, so, we're playing and, you know, at that time, you score maybe 20 points. so every game, i would get 18 of the 20. so the parents would be mad at me and the kids would be mad at me because i was scoring most of the points. so i said, okay, the next game,

instead of grabbing it, offensive rebound and shooting it, i'm going to pass it back out. and i kept doing that. and, so, now, those kids got a chance to score, and that taught me a valuable lesson of leading, even at that time, to make everybody else happy. that's when i started my passing. >> charlie: and the more they participate, the better off the team is. >> exactly. >> charlie: because they raise to another level, they wouldn't get there if you were doing all the work. >> yes. in basketball i was the first one to practice, the last to lead. thlead. >> the dream teams we all played on, it was the greatest moment of all our lives. >> charlie: the greatest moment of your lives. >> without a doubt. i always wanted to play with michael and larry and i finally got my chance. oh! that's a perfect game and moment for a point guard, look to your right, there's michael, to your left there's larry! you don't know who to pass it to! (laughter) i mean, the greatest collection

of talent assembled. patrick, karl, john, drexler, barclay, david robinson, and you just sit back and we all had one common goal and that was to win and we were going to play hard every single night and show the world why we have the best basketball in the world. >> charlie: in the world. that's right. that's right. >> charlie: in the last olympics, didn't have enough time to get it together. >> and they didn't understand why everybody wants to be there so bad. see, you have to understand, those guys are going to play 200%, not 100%. they're going to play 200%. they're going to play to hard because the biggest dream for them is to be in the nba and be in america, see, so they're here

to show everybody their talent and they want to be the best play in the nba and you know that. >> charlie: when you stood up there and they played the national anthem. >> goosebumps. i started crying. >> charlie: did you? i started crying. they knew they had to give me a towel right away. to be, first of all, in the u.s.a. jersey, to be with the collection of guys, to hear the national anthem knowing i'm representing our country, i just had to start crying. i broke down opening night and i broke down the last night because i didn't want it to end. it was just so -- such a tremendous experience that i didn't want it to be over. >> charlie: and you tell these young kids now, go play in the olympics if you have a chance, don't turn it down? >> don't turn it down. i don't care if you have to practice for all summer or two years, go experience that because there will never be an experience quite like it ever in your life. when they placed that gold medal

around your neck, it's the greatest moment. when you run out with all the guys in the tunnel and everybody cheers for you -- see, what happened, when you first come out, the world wants to cheer for the united states team because that's who they know! >> charlie: that's right, they knew michael and you from television. >> exactly. so, now, they want you to play the game the way it's supposed to be played and, if you do that, the arena will go crazy for you. now, if you pout, moan, get upset at the referees and all that, they're, like, you're the united states! you're not supposed to be doing that! (cheering) >> charlie: talk to me about being a shooter. tell me what's inside your head. >> as a shooter -- >> charlie: is it just your moment? >> your mindset is a lot different than everybody else's.

you see things that, as a shooter, as a scorer, that the next person might not see or the person in the stands might not see. >> charlie: like what? so i'm big on space. >> charlie: right. i'm big on creating space and i know if i get a certain amount of space, then i have a chance to put the ball in the hole, and that's the scoring mentality. >> charlie: yeah. and, also, if you miss two shots, you don't think you're going to miss a third shot. >> charlie: and if there is ten seconds left, give me the ball? >> if it's ten seconds left, i want the ball, i want that pressure, i want that moment. >> because you have the confidence. >> because i have the confidence, but also i believe if i get a shot at the rim, it's going to go in. >> charlie: doesn't always work? >> doesn't always work. >> charlie: and you can come back the next night, but you want it again and again and again. >> absolutely. but everybody doesn't have that. either you have it or you don't. >> charlie: what is the clearance you talked about? a step, a moment? what is it?

because you're a bully, too. >> i love physical play. >> charlie: i know. i love it. >> charlie: you can create your own clearance. >> i'm good at creating space and creating my own clearance, but i love -- i grew up on that, you know. i grew up playing with the older guys and playing touch football in the snow and tackle football. i love -- >> charlie: the physicality of it all. >> i love that. >> charlie: who do you fear guarding you the most? >> who do i fear? >> charlie: yeah. teams. >> charlie: not one person? i wouldn't say one person. >> charlie: it's how they -- it's how they do it. it's the strategies set forth. >> charlie: but, i mean, it's not -- you know, who, for example kobe -- >> you know, believe it or not, in this league, no one can guard anyone one-on-one. >> charlie: especially you or kobe or lebron. >> anybody. >> charlie: the guy with the ball can get past one person.

>> absolutely, without a doubt. >> charlie: you grew up in red hook for the first eight, nine years of your life. >> right. >> charlie: what was red hook like? >> it was tough. it was red hook, brooklyn, new york, back in the '80s and the early '90s. just for me to be able to grow up there and have that experience, you know, as a little kid -- you know, i was seeing things i wasn't supposed to see as a youngster and it helped me out to this day. >> charlie: knowing you didn't want to go there? >> knowing the route i didn't want to take. even as a kid, six, seven, eight years old. but you didn't really have no issues because everybody else had the same problems that you was having, so we didn't know no better, so we was just living that life. >> charlie: but did you see basketball or sports as an exit from the neighborhood? >> no, not at all. i mean, i played because i liked it. my oldest brother played. everybody in my neighborhood played it. we had a court outside the

projects building. it was fun. >> charlie: as you know, today -- i mean, there are pro scouts looking at people who are ten years old. >> yeah. >> charlie: and they're seeing the future stars. >> not in my case. >> charlie: notñi in your case. when did they see it in you? >> they started looking at me -- i will say, really from a professional standpoint, probably my senior year in high school. >> charlie: really? yep. >> charlie: that's when you began to come into your own and show you could -- >> yeah, that's when i found the love of the game. before that, it was just to play it to be playing it. playing the basketball tournament, this tournament, that tournament, just something to do to get out of the neighborhood but i didn't really love the game. >> charlie: you then moved to baltimore. >> i thought the grass was greener (laughter) >> charlie: how was it, the change from red hook to baltimore, a very different kind of city? >> it was different. red hook where i was a boy, where i grew up, i had my friends there, already, so to

take me out of that situation and to put me into a totally new but similar situation, you know, it was like a brand-new -- it was brand new for me. no friends, go to school, got to make friends, you know, in a tough neighborhood. >> charlie: but sports helps you make friends? >> sports help you make friends. we had a rec center which kind of kept me out of things. all of the kids in the neighborhood go to the rec center, play in the after-school programs, and that's where you meet your friends at and get your name at. >> charlie: when did you get the shot, the idea that you were a shooter? >> oh, i could always put the ball in the hole. >> charlie: that's what they say about you today. what do you think about carmelo? he can put the ball in the hole. >> even when i was 8, 9, 10, 11 years old, i could always put the ball in the hole. it was a knack i had. >> charlie: any other sports? my first was baseball. >> charlie: would you rather

have been in the major leagues than the nba? >> right now? >> charlie: no, then. if somebody could have said, okay, choose baseball, you can be an all-star, or choose basketball and you can be an all-star -- >> back then, i probably would have chose baseball. >> charlie: really? yeah, because that was my first sport i loved. basketball was just something that i played. >> charlie: could you have been as good in baseball, you think? >> if i would have kept with it, yeah, pretty sure. >> charlie: how about football? >> i play football. i play sports seasonal. whatever season it was, that's what i played. >> charlie: football in the fall, basketball in the winter and baseball in the summer. >> yeah, whatever was going on, that's what i played. (cheering) >> charlie: what do you think the potential of basketball is internationally? >> huge. >> charlie: it's just beginning. >> it's just beginning.

>> charlie: you have the dream team and -- it's the second most popular sport in the world, right? >> behind soccer, yeah. i can remember just five years ago going to china and just recently being there a few weeks ago, how the game has just broadened in just five years. it's huge. >> charlie: you are the second most popular basketball player in china. >> behind yao (laughter) >> charlie: don't they tie all the houston rockets games back to him? iyip &c @&c all-star game i team in the nba. >> current would be chris paul. >> charlie: he's your point guard. >> my point guard. >> charlie: why chris? hris paul is unique. he reminds me of my point guard in high school drew joyce, you know, the he's too small factor. okay, i'm going to use that as motivation and now chris is the

best point guard we have in our league. see, i have a split my two guards between kobe bryant and dwayne wade. >> charlie: yeah, that's hard. can't we make kobe a forward maybe? >> yeah, why not (laughter) >> charlie: kobe's small. and we'll put me as the power forward and then shaq. >> charlie: put the big guy in the middle. you could win some games. >> and you're coach. >> charlie: there we go. we got it! who would you choose as a coach? >> you're going to be a general manager. >> charlie: exactly. the coach, we're going to pick -- >> charlie: i want to be the dannyçó ferry. we growth went to duke. this could work. >> the coach -- i mean, with that team, we could have anyone. >> charlie: maybe we don't need a coach. yes, we do. tell me why we need a coach.

>> because i feel like the coach sets the players up to go out and execute the game plan. you have to have a captain of the ship. >> charlie: right. you have to have soldiers, but you have to have the cap tin to make sure those guys are going the right direction. >> charlie: all-time historical team. we clearly want magic. >> my all-time historical team is -- see, i'm going to change spots again because i feel like these players can play any position. magic johnson one, michael jordan two, larry bird three -- >> charlie: that's good. he's unbelievable. i would take -- see, those are roster spots. >> charlie: right. i'd take kareem abdul-jabbar four. >> charlie: where's my man bill russell? >> he's at the five. (laughter) >> charlie: there you go. that's the team. >> and james naismith, my coach.

>> charlie: invented the game of basketball. and suppose that team is playing the team that we predicted first, who wins? >> you know, no one will win. you know why? >> charlie: because? because we would never -- if we beat that team, they would not let us get off the court, and if they beat us we would not let them get off the court. we would play all day and night (laughter) >> charlie: is your game complete? >> i don't think so. i don't think so. i feel, at 24 years old there's no way that my game can be complete. there's too much more to learn, too much more to see, too much more to experience and i feel like i've gotten better every year. >> charlie: take from the year before to the last year, better in shooting, better in rebounding, better in team understanding the game, better -- >> i think better in leadership. >> charlie: leadership. leadership, vocally, making sure that my guys are always

prepared to go out and play the game of basketball every night. >> charlie: you have to create your own presence there for them. >> absolutely. >> charlie: who are your heros? >> my number one is my moth snor -- mymother. >> charlie: sure. she's famous in her own right. >> she's taking more calls than me today. she's my number one hero. >> charl because without her, there's no firm rock for you. >> nowhere, no way. the strength she showed -- as a kid, you don't understand it until you get older and have your own family and me having a family of my own, i have no idea how she raised me or any kid by herself and not being able to be financially stable. >> in a tough environment. very tough.

>> charlie: how do you pay back to her other than love? i don't mean by material possessions. >> i always give back to her by just showing that i appreciate her. i don't take for granted her being my mother. >> charlie: you look at all this and say, without her -- >> two of her heads for my head. (cheering) >> charlie: here's the most amazing thing i know about you is that coming out of high school there wasn't the kind of attention that you would think a future m.v.p. in the nba would generate. >> it makes for a great story now but at the time it wasn't that much fun. i had big dreams and practiced my butt off every day and to have nobody knock on my door was disappointing. my high school coach was proactive sending out letters

and trying to get people interested. >> charlie: what was it they didn't see or why? >> well, i think, first of all, the landscape of recruiting wasn't so international, so 15 years ago when i was a high school senior, it wasn't very common for u.s. college recruiters go to canada, europe, australia. >> charlie: as they do now. as they do now. you know. >> charlie: and italy. exactly, especially at the time for a 6'1" white point guard. >> charlie: right. so it was a challenge and i had one chance, santa clara gave me an opportunity to play college basketball and then i made the most of it. >> charlie: and then the nba. the nba. >> charlie: which was not brilliant in the beginning. >> no, but i wanted to play nba i decided in high school. when i went to college, i decided i wanted to make the nba. having the goal manifests itself.

you're able to visualize it and go after it. i felt like the goals were out there for me to keep reaching once i attained one and i always go for the next one and keep moving. >> charlie: a famous quote, a point god's delivered from god. >> depends who you're asking, depends on the religious beliefs. >> charlie: how are point guards made? >> i think it's very difficult to make a point guard. >> charlie: do you. i think there are certain attributes and traits that are just nacho a player, you know, his personality and the way he plays and sees the game. i think you see it all the time with these guys who are terrific scorers was not quite tall enough to play the two guard in the nba and it's almost impossible to convert them to point guard. they have all the talent and ability and skills but they don't quite have the feeling to be a point guard. so there's not truth to that.

>> charlie: who do you admire? who has skills that stun you? >> jason kidd as a point guard. he has a great feel for the game. >> charlie: can see the court. great vision. you know, then as far as guys in general in the nba, i think tim duncan the unbelievable. so solid and special as a team player. tim garnett. >> charlie: what about this guy? >> he's all right. >> charlie: how close are the two of you? >> he's one of my best friends. we don't get to talk as much as i would like to now that i have kids and we play in different cities, but he's a close friend and in a heart beat if i need anything he's got it. you know, he's a great friend, someone we went through a lot together. >> charlie: tell me what it is that we don't know about the role that the point guard played and the role that you played in terms of bringing down the -- the ball down the court and

setting up the offense. you're a pretty fast offense. >> we play a pretty fast offense. the coach puts a lot of responsibility and if a lot of ways gives me the freedom to be creative. i think that's great. the thing people probably don't understand is a point guard has to be the mother, you know, has to be the psychologist, you know, and, so, it's not -- >> charlie: has to make it happen. >> it's not just strategic, it's psychological, too. you have to understand not only the strategies of your teammates, but also the esteem to grow as the game goes. so there's a lot to consider, notice, interpret, and i think to be a good point guard and a good teammate in generics you need to be sensitive to those things as well. >> charlie: if you're coming

down and it's 15 seconds left, you've got the ball, is your first instinct to look for an open man, to look for a person you know most likely -- >> need ago score at the ebbed of the game, i want to take the responsibility on myself first, so i'm going to look for an opportunity to create a shot myself. >> charlie: because you believe in yourself and that you can do it. >> i believe in myself and i want to take responsibility and i want to, you know, give our team a chance to win the game and not defer. now, if i can't create an opportunity or i create an opportunity but it opens up something for someone es, i want to make the right play. >> charlie: in the end, you want to win the game. >> and i want to make the right play. sometimes to a fault. maybe i should shoot it even if it's a tough shot. but i feel like i'm going to create a shot for myself and if something opens up, it's the

right play to make no matter what. >> charlie: when you get smarter in basketball and you get smarter at being a point guard, it means what? >> well, i think the simplest way to say it is to learn your lessons. if you make a mistake or something works for you, that has to go in your memory bank so the next time you're more equipped to deal with that situation. i could sit here and name a million ways of how that is directly stated but i think that is the easiest way in broad strokes to say, when you're playing, take note of everything that happens and take note of why you failed in this particular game or season, take note of why you succeeded in this play of the game or season and use that. that's information for you to use the next time. when the test comes around again and you're in that situation, you have a better chance to succeed. for me it's about continually taking notes and using it to your advantage. (cheering)

>> charlie: how many people said you would never make it? >> oh, man, if i had a dollar, i would be rich. but it's so funny because those same people are some of my best friends today, you know, and i use that as motivation. growing up, my older brother was always you can't come, you're too small. his friends told me that i was too small. i was a carolina friend growing up. i know you were a dukey. >> charlie: no, i was a carolina fan. >> i always said i wanted to go to carolina. and one of his friends, mike russell, always told me, you're too small, you will never go, so to one day have a scholarship offer from carolina, it was so fulfilling and i remember i told mike, i said, listen, i'm going to wake forest, but i could have gone to carolina. >> charlie: why didn't you go to carolina? >> wake was just a better fit

for me basketball-wise. it was closer to home and a great academic school. >> charlie: tell me how you did it, though. most of us look at great odds and have great dreams and some of us achieve those dreams surprisingly. >> right. >> charlie: my answer is always just hard work. you work harder than everybody else and that seems to be the answer for most people. >> right. >> charlie: what was it for you? >> for me it was a combination of the hard work but, at the same time, i was disciplined, very disciplined, and my parents were very instrumental in that, and i'm very fortunate to have a mother and a father who have always been there for me in everything that i do. it was, you know, i think it was a 2.0 grade average to be eligible for athletic sports. for me it was 3.0. >> charlie: it wasn't about the goal. >> it was about what my parents said, so we always set the bar higher than average.

i've always just been determined. like i said, that's -- >> charlie: did you believe after your college career that you would be, you know, a leading point guard in the nba? >> i hoped, i dreamed, you know. when i was in high school, any freshmen and sophomore year in high school, i played j.v. basketball. everyone always plays varsity. i was j.v. going to wake, didn't know what to expect. didn't know i'd start. the starting point guard had an appendectomy before our first game. had that not happened, i may not have started my first game in college. everything happens for a reason and, you know, i thank god that i have been blessed with this wonderful opportunity to play a game that i love. >> charlie: i think michael jordan didn't make the varsity the freshman year in high school. >> right, he got cut. >> charlie: he got cut. he got cut, so he had to play j.v. >> charlie: what does that say? he physically hadn't come of age or what? >> it's funny, because my brother is two years older than me, so he was on the varsity team. i remember my sophomore year, i

was, like, man, i want to play varsity, and the varsity coach said he could put me on varsity but i wouldn't get in the game. so i was like, no, i'd rather play j.v. and get to practice and we went undefeated. >> charlie: what's the difference in your game today than when you entered the nba? >> when i see pictures of me, my rookie year, i look like a little lost boy. so i've definitely matured physically but more so mentally. >> charlie: help us understand what it takes to be in the nba and how different the nba is than college ball. >> it's very different in that when you're in college you go to classes, the coaches are telling you what to do and different things like that. when you get to the nba, it's a bunch of grown men. so, you know, you come to practice and different things like that, but they're not going to hold your hand. you have to do it yourself, and i think that's what separates the greats from the guys who are in the nba. the guys who are the leaders, the elite, they work hard day in

and day out and they never take the break. >> charlie: how about shooting? >> shooting is key. me being small all the time, i was usually the shooting guard on my teams, and then i just worked on my ball handling and tried to combine it all. but if you can shoot the basketball, it's always a spot on you, a spot on the team for you, i guarantee you that. if you can put it in the hole, there's a spot on the team for you. >> charlie: tell me about what it is we don't know about basketball at the pro level. >> the competition is amazing. people are always asking me what is it like to play in the nba? you know, everyone always talks about how they love college basketball because they feel guys in the nba take nights off and things like that. from playing in the nba, i can speak from experience, there are no nights off. you're playing against the most finest team athletes night after night and if you don't bring your a game you will be

embarrassed, especially in our league. i notice so many different things. when i first came in, it's about how fast i can do it. now it's about how efficient. >> charlie: how efficient. yes, and it's hard. >> charlie: speed, hand-eye coordination, physicality. >> yes, but the majority is heart. >> charlie: how much is smart on court, which kobe and lebron has and you do and michael had. >> m.j. definitely had it. >> charlie: m.j. the greatest player to have played the game? >> i think so, i'm a huge m.j. fan. >> charlie: who's better kobe or lebron. >> oh, man. >> charlie: come on... who do you think? i ask the questions. >> i'm fortunate enough to have been on that u.s.a. team to where i didn't have to choose. i had kobe on one wing and

lebron on the other. >> charlie: guess who the coach was. >> coach kay. >> charlie: will ther there you. yeah. >> charlie: and he's coming back. >> coming back. >> charlie: that's as good as it gets. >> definitely. i always said me scoring 61 points in high school for my late grandfather is the greatest achievement. >> charlie: for your grandfather. >> yes, my grandfather was murdered by five teenagers and the day after he died, i scored 61 points. he was 61 years old when he died. >> charlie: were you determined to do that when you walked on the court? >> yes. the highest i'd scored before that was 30 points in the game. before the game my aunt sort of mentioned it to me. i said, man, is this really possible? there were two and a half minutes left in the game and i had 59 points, scored a shot and got fouled, and that was it.

>> charlie: how close were you to him? >> oh, very close. >> charlie: his name was nathaniel. >> yes, he's in the book. he was my best friend. a lot of times kids have a teammate that's their best friend. >> charlie: how did you deal with the sorrow, the pain, the grief? >> it was tough. you definitely wanted to give up, didn't think i would play ball anymore, but my grand-dad wast fan. if he was now and knew i was on the charlie rose show, he wouldn't believe it. he wouldn't believe it, seriously. >> charlie: he'd probably believe it. look at the fierceness of the eyes there. talk about eyes, playing basketball. >> it's another world for me. just about every picture i have for me playing basketball, my face is -- >> charlie: how about that one? >> my face is always crazy. my girlfriend always says, look at your face, look at your face! the thing is, when i'm playing ball, i'm in another world. i'm two different people on and

off the court. >> charlie: getting back to the lebron-kobe question. >> my goodness. >> charlie: just because you were on the court with them. >> right. >> charlie: size up, how were they different? >> i can answer that, because you can't go wrong picking either one of them. >> charlie: exactly. and both of them have strengths about them. >> charlie: and there's no real answer to the question. >> right. lebron is a free athlete. he knows it, too. >> charlie: in that he has what? >> he has everything that -- you know, he has the court vision that me and all us point guards have. >> charlie: plus, bigger than you are. >> plus he has the physique of a linebacker, you know. >> charlie: or a tight end. right, a tight end, but he's standing 6'8". and then kobe, he just has the killer instinct. >> charlie: so kobe has a bigger killer instinct than lebron and lebron has more athletic ability than kobe? >> lebron has probably more

athletic ability than anybody, anybody. but there are a lot of different guys that have the killer instinct. i like to think i do, too. it's just kobe is an assassin. you know, the way he shoots the ball and different things, he'll make a shot and you're like, man, that's a tough shot, but you know he practiced it, you know? >> charlie: exactly. that's exactly right. >> exactly. >> charlie: for more about this program and earlier episodes, visit us online at pbs.org and charlierose.com.

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>> the following kqed production was produced in high definition. [ ♪music ] >> yes, check, please! people. >> it's all about licking your plate. >> the food was just fabulous. >> i should be in psychoanalysis for the amount of money i spend in restaurants. >> i had a horrible experience. >> i don't even think we were in the same restaurant. >> leslie: and everybody, i'm sure, saved room for those desserts.