>> rose: welcome to the program. we begin with nick woodman of gopro, showing us the new developments in gopro cameras. >> i realize we have gotñi toçór being just a risk camera company and we have to makeñrñrñrçó accr that people can mountñi thisñi little camera anywhere and capture any perspective of life as it is happening. and that way, gopro can be appealing to everybody, because everybody has interests, everybody has passions. everybody is doing something that is personally important to them and we believe that everybody has an interest in seeing themselves engaged in their interests and their activities. and before gopro it was almost impossible for anybody to self capture themselves and we have made that easy. >> rose: we continue with peter baker of "the new york

times" talking about the informat( received from the intelligence community about decisions he had to make about syria and i%5$- the initial concernñr inside the government of the united statesi about isis or isil was mainly about as a source of foreign3!uo the united states or europe and commit terrorist acts here. still is a concern but what they did not focus on really was the regional, territorial aspirations this group had. it is something different than al qaeda, al qaeda didn't actually try to create a the caliphate, even if it talked about it, these guys from isis or isil again actually did see the great swath of territory in syria and iraq that they have now made into an effective state of bai's called all the truth is out which he makes the case that politicalçó reporting of politil candidates changed after the gary hart c seen anything like that prior and of course we have seen it many times since. the reason

for me, you know, is that i spent a lot of yearsñi now as y# campaigns, and national politics. and i had this feeling that something that happened in that moment had a real reverberating effect through the years and changed the experience for me and other my age and came after to cover politics. >> rose: nick woodman, peter barack,g+glñ and matt bai when e continue. funding for charlie rose is provided by the a dditional funding provided by -- >> and by bloomberg a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide.

> captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: nick woodman is here. he is the founder and ceo of gopro, the wearable video camera company that on the back of extreme athletes and adventurers, its appeal has expanded along with the company's value, gopro went public in june, the stock has tripled since that time making its founder a multibillionaire. earlier today gopro unveiled three knew cameras, i am pleased to have nick woodman at this table. welcome. >> thanks for having me, charlie. >> rose: tell me about the beginning of this company. >> well,p. goes back to when i was about 22 years old and i decided that i wanted to make it as an entrepreneur. i didn't -- i wanted to make it as an venue for, i didn't think, inventor, i didn't think about the business side of it, i wanted to come up with an idea that would allow me to be successful and i gave myself until the age of 30 to succeed,

and i told myself as a 22-year-old if i don't succeed by the time i am 30ly go work for somebody else's dream, because i want to have a family and i need to have a career and earnçó an income. and my first business was an on-line game company and i failed, started that when i was 24. that business shut down when i was 26 and now i have four years left on the clockntrç inspiration. iñr had no idea what my next businessxdfáñi couldçlçóñr be, traumatized?; failure in the first.com boom and bust, and so with no inspiration .. and a of savings i decided to hit the road and plan a five month surf trip around australia and indonesia to find inspiration because i believe when people are pursuing theirv)éu passions, they are turned on and have their best ideas and meet people that inspire them and okay i will hit the road and look for

inspiration, and the irony is that i had the idea for gopro before i even left on that trip which was the idea for a wearable wrist camera that i could surf with to documentaú traveling with while we were surfing.#ápi perhaps the tripñrç$ for me and i want to document that experience, but when i looked out for a camera that would allow me to surf and video or photograph my experience at the same time there was nothing on the market so iñv pullñiñi somethingçó together ai invente#h(! was essentially añi modified suf board leash i wore on theñr writ with some oñi rings that held a camera inñi place on my wrist, went on my trip, the product worked so well that the light bulb went off and i realized. >> rose: here it is. >> there must be so many otherñi this. and in the early years, i

thought ofñi gopro just as camerañi company, and, you know, obviously we havegrown into something so much bigger. >> rose: this goes way beyond extreme adventure. >> it took a while. >> rose: skiing. >> i started gopro in 2002, first product in 2004, and it wasn'tfqsn until 2007 that we gw off ofp mounting accessories so our customers could mount this little box, this little capture module anywhere. and the idea cameg another passion. again i am a big believer when you are pursuingó your best ideas come to you. like yourñiñi fingerprint, we al haveu different, and i think that one's passions may justf guidebook to one's life and as my wrist camera company started to do well enough financially it

allowed me to pursue another passionate dream i had which was to learn how to drive a race car and i went up to sonoma raceway just north of san[d[qñ franciscd rolled in açó raceçó= you go for three days and teach you how to drive and they wanted to rent me a video camera to put in the race car, they wanted to charge me like $100 for every half hour of use and i thought that crazy, i have my wrist camera, my gopro in the trunk of my streetcar, i will just go get that and strap it to the roll bar of this car and shoot it that way and as soon as i strapped that wrist camera on to the roll bar and stepped back, i realized that looks like that ic everybody else in the school gathered around me and askedñ7 where i got it and i rememberñis turningz theñjr fellow that askd me and iñr said, dude,ñi i made that. and the footage was much better than any other camera at the

time that you could putñi on a r and i realized we have got to stop being just a wristñfiçóñiñi company and we have toñm/e maker mountñr this littleñr camera anywhere andñiñi captureñi anyñr perspective ofi life asking the happening% dçóñi that way gopro could be appealing to everybody, because everybodyñiñr hasñrñruy[ , everybody is doing something that is personally important to them and we believe that everybody has anñi interest in seeingçó themselvesñi engaged in theirñi interests andñrñrñ;their activities. and beforeñi gopro it was almost impossible for might be to self capture themselves andd8n that easy. >> rose:ñrçó was the electronics of it, the engineering of it that%"yru difficult? >> in otherçó words, that camera was that a hard go for you or was it reasonably easy? >>kiqçóçóçóñiñiñorçóñrñiath

humble in-82 but because nothing like thisíxq existed were justitjmç:p(ture$]

love tof:/n!è years i would say gopro's6:0m products, it was notqñ0y that4 impressive but it is a1 there was and f along the waycst andt;!q better engineering5 and today, you know, we are producingx >> rose: topvhbdq technology. >>r!j:,es. but we were veryif4 fortunate we have many years of no competition and we were able].no kind of bootstrap=]42z ourselve- all of that including this new camera you have pointed at#d called the%-"úñ hero 4, black so many4h÷v the evolut9y many years arewe today is. >>pir[h!!b+ >> 12 years. >> you started:=zhñ qu8 employees, including your%%q we >>x >> you nowq6t >> ballpark. >> rose: how many? >> that is >> rose: it unl story. ande=4d today, you are announca launch and i want to9x)s get mr the experience but this littlezñ

bugger here. >> yes. >> -- which you handed to me and don'tn capture just -- hello, hello. >> rose: i can have you!p&uc:'pt >> and theyç don't than this? >> well -- thanks foráúáqñ >>?ñ5] rose: thisé then them>6aver. >> this actually is >> because itv-yb hassk'] the" significantly of the"$ hero three plus black. >> rose: rightn selling cameratw-%ñ÷vs it. >> ohhas been our bestselling ca since we launched it. >> rose: about the >> exactly the same size. now including a built-in touched l.c.d., which is no easy feat from an engineering standpoint to get this in this camera which

is already so crammed. this sells for $399 and this is our flagship. this is the highest performance go-pro -- >> that's a hero 4. >> they're both hero 4s. this is the civil expert black. >> rose: and the difference? >> here or 4 black shoots 4 k, 1080. at 180 frames per second, allowing for incredible slow motion effects. what makes 4 k so interesting, okay, it captures cinema life-like quality video so everybody -- >> we can make a movie with this? you can make a movie. people already do make movies with go pros. >> the hero 3 black won an emmy. >> rose: i didn't know that. >> yeah. i'm not sure but -- >> for a film? >> i think it's the first consumer camera to ever win an emmy -- >> cinematography? >> for enabling new perspectives in television at an extremely low cost, which enhances programming. when you show the world

perspectives they've never seen, you engage the world. they're seeing-- they're seeing -- >> let's talk about that idea because that is the most exciting thing for me. you can put this camera on some animal-- >> on your sailboat. >> rose: on your sailboat. you can do it and will take you places you can't imagine. not only does it give you a different perspective, but it can take you place where's you're not going because creatures go where we don't go. >> we see people around the world. we see their passions, their interests in-- and we develop an understanding and appreciation for diversity and a sense of a global community, frankly, that we haven't had before. i mean, one of my favorite videos is of-- i think it's titled on youtube "afghan ski video." and it's a group of kids from afghanistan who had a gopro, and they shot in i think in 2013. we made it "video of the day" on the gopro channel this february

2014. and it's a group of kids in afghanistan who put on a ski contest in the hills above their town, complete with hand-painted gopro banners. they put it on like it was an x-games event, and they documented the whole thing from painting the banners to setting everything up to the competition itself. and this is definitely a different perspective of everyday life in afghanistan than you're normally seeing in the media. and we wouldn't have seen it if it wasn't for these kids having a gopro. >> rose: battery life is what? >> battery life is, depending on resolution and frame rate-- anything from an hour and a half to two hours. >> rose: that's a lot of time. >> it is but it's never enough-- actually, i'm sorry, if you have everything cranking in 4 k-30. 4 k-30 is a bear. the challenge is to meet the demands of the souter while delivering professional quality results. if you go to somebody, a

producer, a professional film makener hollywood, and you tell them that this little matchbox-sized device shoots 4 k-30 and it will run for an hour. they say, you have to be kidding me. that's amazing. you see it to a consumer buying it at best buy or their local surf shop. and they think, an hour? that's all? because as consumers you have different expectations. you say my god, this is a professional camera built into this little thing. an hour is amazing. and people ask unit ydidn't you put the l.c.d. screen on the back of the top-of-the-line camera? and the answer is this camera, the resolution and frame rate that it's shooting at, it's-- it's at the bleeding edge. and you can't cool the camera if you have an l.c.d. on the back of it. so we really-- this really is a formula 1 engineering feat to produce -- >> what about your racing career? >> i still get in the car.

not as much -- >> a weekend racer? >> oh, yeah, i'm an amateur racer. >> rose: i know that. do you go out on the weekends? do you race occasionally? >> yeah. i don't get in the car as much as i used to because i now have a new passion in life which is my growing family. >> rose: how many kids? >> i've got three little boys, and time with them and my wife is incredibly precious. >> rose: are you documenting it? >> i'm documenting. and i'll tell you, remember how i mentioned i'm a big believer that passion is your guide to your life? the time they spend with my family and documenting my children as they grow and all of experiences we have is forcing me to think about our products and gopro in an entirely new way. what started out as a risk camera to help me document my passion for surfing then grew into a race car camera to help me capture my passion for racing and then grew into this versatile device to help everybody capture their passion is now, i believe, revealed to me as the ultimate family

capture device. one of my favorite ways to use a gopro is it taking it us with to the diner on saturday mornings to document pancake breakfast with the kids. i set it on the ketchup bottle at the end of the table and document all the funny little phrases and -- >> everybody forgets it's there. >> everybody forgets it's there, but the challenge is my family is trapped on stacks of s.d. cards on my desk at home. >> rose: yes. >> and so i'm frustrated because i want to be enjoying those moments and sharing those moments with extended friends and family, and i don't have the time. so this has really been the-- this pain point has really been the driver, a big inspiration for to us think about how do we help our customers manage all this content that they're capturing so that they can easily access it, watch it, and then do the, on the mountain with your family, compress it into the one to two minutes that other people actually want to watch and then share it, and that is really the

next phase for gopro, so people ask me, oh, well what is the long-term vision? the long-term vision is to establish gopro as a standard for how we all capture meaningful life experiences, manage them, and then compress them into short form stories that we can share with other people to help us better express ourselves and better share our experiences, and i think we have got a real opportunity to accomplish that. >> rose: and ease of operation is clear. what is interesting about what you just said i have often said to all of my friends, because of what i do, but go and document the experiences of your family, of your parents and your grandparent, if you didn't have the technology or didn't think about it before, it is so easy to do it now. so talk about their childhood. talk about their grandparent, talk about the lives that they shared, talk about all of this. for example, i mean, i never had

a chance to record all of those wonderful conversations i had with my father about world war ii, it was tough, he talked to me about them personally but never with a camera there. and just to record that, or my mother and growing up and all the things she did while he was away. it is a wonderful archival device as you know. >> can you imagine seeing footage, high definition footage with gate audi audio of your pas playing as children. >> rose: no. it is unbelievable. >> and how would that, how that would expand your understanding of who they were and appreciates and also of who you are. this is obviously an international product. it is around the world. are you thinking about gopro stores? >> so it is something that -- sure it is a potential down the line and as our product line grows we obviously have more and more interesting things that we can put in those stores, and if you ever have seen us at consumer trade event or an i

have trade show we put on fabulous experience that has proven to be very successful for helping us grow our brand and engage consumers but the truth of the matter is we have so many great retail partners who are interested in giving gopro more and more floor space within their stores so as example at best buy we are in the process of moving from four feet of linear to 12 feat of linear within their stores, and creating essentially what is a store within a store and that opportunity is bird in hand right now so for the foreseeable future we see ourselves growing within our existing retailers. >> rose: it is great to see you. >> it was great to be here. thanks for the invitation. >> rose: gopro, new products, nick woodman. back in a moment. stay with us. >> i think our head ofax,ñ the intelligence community, jim clapper acknowledged i think they underestimated what had

been taking place in syria. >> but he didn't say, just say that we underestimated isil. he said we over estimated the ability and the will of our allies, the iraqi army to fight. >> that's true. that is absolutely true. >> rose: after the president remarks on sunday night there was an intelligence community pushback, felt like they had been thrown under the busby the president, this morning in "the new york times" an article by peter baker and eric smith called many missteps an assessment of isis threat, i am pleased to have peter barack back on this, peter baker back on this program to talk about what he has seen and reported on. peter let me begin with this question. the president was on "60 minutes" and talk about why the united states finds'ñ'nñ itf facing isis, a crisis and threat it didn't necessarily see. my question is, is it true that there has been some pushback from the intelligence community

with respect to what the president said on "60 minutes"? >> yeah. well the way the president worded it i think left some people in the intelligence community felt like they were thrown under the bus. the president may or may not have meant it this way but he was asked did we misjudge it and a and not seeing what happening and he quoted jim clapper and clapper recently said in fact the intelligence community did not foresee the speed in which isis or isil would race across iraq and particularly the propensity for the iraqi army to collapse the way it did. so the president was trying to simply use i think the words that jim clapper the professional, intelligence guy had used but in the process of doing it made it sound like he was saying it was all the intel, people's faults and he didn't say anything about his own misjudgments any of which he may have made. >> rose: what does the white house say about the statement today? after the fact of the sunday interview? >> they pushed back on the idea that he was, in fact, trying to

blame the intelligence community and say look that is simply the way the questioning and answers happen to be wording but didn't indicate any kind of intent on his part to point the finger at the intelligence community. he relies on them very religiously he said and also read a statement today from director clapper in which he said basically that the intelligence community did a lot of really good work, that it wasn't perhaps really predictable to understand just how badly the iraqi army would perform once under the threat of these extremist racing across iraq. >> rose: yes, but at the same time there have been reports in which they have pointed out that members of the intelligence community, people have testified before congress pointing out, you know, that this was a rising threat. >> no, i think that's right. look, there are several misjudgments along the way, one is that the initial concern inside the government of the united states about isis or isil was mainly about as a source of foreign fighters who might come home to the united states or

europe and commit terrorists act here and still is a concern but what they did not focus on really was the regional territorial aspiration aspiratis group had. it is something different than al qaeda, al qaeda didn't actually try to create a caliphate even if it talked about it, these guys from isis or isil again actually did see the great swath of territory in syria and iraq that they have now made into an effective state of their own. so that is one thing that was missing. the other thing that was missed was just the potential of the threat, that they saw this containable when isis took over fallujah in western iraq, i think, in some places to government was look that is a hotbed of sunni extremist sentiment to begin with, we will try to contain it andr whittle it down but didn't expect it within a few months to metastasize into sort of a giant threat that it became. >> rose: walk me through the pivotal moments. >> well, one of the pivotal moments comes on new year's day

of 2014, this year when 100 trucks carrying heavy weaponry and flying the flag of al qaeda raced into fallujah and ramadi in western iraq, that was the first time we have seen that kind of show of force by isis outside of the syrian borders, and i think that it really was a wakeup call to a lot of people and it should have probably been a wakeup call to more in the government that something significant needed to be done. the president didn't want even then to per streen using american military force and really took four or five more months until mosul felt and tikrit began to fall that they began to consider more direct intervention. >> rose: other pivotal moments? >> well, the pivotal moments you did mention the february testimony by the head of the defense intelligence agency, he did say to congress, we think isis has aspirations to take over more territory in 2014, that came and went without, you

know, probably to be taken as serious stli as it should have been. you know, the key moments obviously are, you know, when the president gives a speech at west point in may he talks about how, you know, the united states shouldn't be so eager to use military power to deal with every foreign crisis out there. which is something that he has been thinking a lot about lately, particularly about a president who wanted to out of iraq and afghanistan. and it came literally weeks before isis became such a rampaging force in northern iraq and had to pivot since then to try to, you know, reconcile that policy of restraint he announced in west point and the policy of intervention he is now pursuing in syria and iraq. >> rose: the question that arises that the president has been having to deal with for a while is why didn't he do more for the moderate forces, so-called free syrian army, he constantly at every interview

says it would not have made a ditches. what is it that the president believes, because he clearly believes this, that secretary clinton, david competent address and, petraeus and leon panetta did not believe? >> well the first thing i think it is important to remember .. he really didn't want us to be dragged into someone else's war. that's the way he saw it. he saw a deeper involvement in syria's civil war as a loser for the united states, one where we couldn't affect the outcome in a meaningful way but could get dragged in in a dangerous way, in a way that would be harmful so that sort of drove his thinking about this, especially in the two years ago when as you say secretary clinton, david petraeus and others were urging him to go ahead and arm these moderate opposition forms forced. the other thing is these moderate opposition forces weren't all that effective to begin with and weren't that cohesive, were basically as he puts it a bunch of farmers and farm assists and so forth who really didn't have the wherewithal to be an effective force and the more he would send

them weapons the more those weapons might be out there and available for more nefarious organizations like isil or like al-nusra to pick up and use against our friends and allied. >> rose: but the president and even vice president biden has reassured every time we ask it would not have made a difference and yet there is a recognition at least among those people who are supporting it that isis would not be where it is today if in fact they had not had so much room to expand in syria. >> that is certainly the argument and of course counter factual is impossible to know for a fact but you do hear that from the critics if you intervened earlier in this way and built up the free syrian0 army no matter how ineffective they were at first there would be something other than isis dominating the rebel field in syria today. and that you gave room in effect forowórñ isis to rise up.

now, even hillary clinton says today, even she says look i don't know for a fact had he followed the policy i recommended of arming the rebels two years ago it would necessarily have made a difference. it might not have so he is trying to make sure she doesn't completely break with him on this. but there is a real argument about that. would it have made a difference two years ago or not? >> do you assume that the president and the intelligence community are okay today, this is not some deep fits user between the, fissure, between the white house .. and intelligence members at the cia and other places? >> yeah, that's a good question. i think we will have to wait and see. i think you have a historic tensionm house and the intelligence community when things go wrong. who is to blame? we didn't get the information we needed. we could have acted better well we gave you the information you just chose not to act on it or didn't act these kind of fricke shuns are very, very familiar. we saw that after the, you know, the iraq war of 2003 began to go

bad, george tenet, the cia director ultimately left very unhappy with what he thought was the bush scapegoating of him. whether this bhoaz into something that serious or not that is not clear at the moment, i think they are trying very hard to avoid that from happening. >> rose: peter, thank you very much, great to have you here. >> thank you. >> rose: new york times, many missteps in assessment of isis threat, officials say the fault is the white house's too. stay with us. back in a moment. >> we want to turn to the subject of how the press covers politicians, former colorado senator gary hart was poised to become the democratic nominee in may of 1987, he led george h.w. bush by double digits in the polls but a media frenzy surrounding rumors of his marital infidelity ended his candidacy in the span of one week. his new book shows how the hart episode marked a crucial turning

point in american politics. it is called all the truth is out, i am pleased to have that author at this table. welcome. >> thank you, charlie, it is great to be here. >> tell me the big picture first. at the time that gary hart was so high in the polls with the leading candidate for the democratic nomination, and after he was taken down, not taken down because of knowledge of things he had done, his candidacy was over. a man who wasze likely to becoma nominee of a party and very well could have been in the white house is taken÷rm infidelity. what is the 11 from this? >> well, the reason we are writing the book called all the truth is out, in the political world has never seen anything like that prior and of course we have seen it many times since. the reason for me, you know, is that i spent a lot of years now as you know covering presidential campaigns and

national politics. >> rose: right. >> and i have had this feeling that something that happened in this moment ha[r reverberating effect through the years and changed the experience for me and others my age that came after that cover politics. i think that episode, in particular, which happened for a variety of reasons in society and was probably inevitable for some candidate, changed the ethos of political journalism from the exploration of world views and ideas, candidates and their platforms and agendas. >> rose: and strategy and politics. >> and strategy and all of that to real emphasis on finding the scandal and finding the-a%ow lio the idea that we knew you were lying about something, you are a hypocrite in some way and our job is to expose it. that goes back to watergate in a way, # administration and manifested itself and really burst out into the political arena -- >> is this gotcha journalism? >> it is. what is the quickest, easiest term for it but i think, you know, i think in some ways it sells it short because it is

a deeply ingrained and very consequential. >> rose: i know gary hart and known hijw in washington and considered him a friend at the time and continues to see him as a friend and been at this table talking about his interests and his books. you talked to him a lot. >> i did, yeah. >> rose: give me your perspective on what happened to him not ihío=a termsób,o of whad to but the moment inside that bubble. >> well, i think his heart is really a fascinating figure because he was seen as the leader of the 60s generation, the arrival of the boomers, in national politics and as you know he has been famous going back to his role as mcgovern's campaign manager. >> rose: and friend with warren beatty. >> and hunter thompson and all of that but he is ten years younger and actually born in 1936, ten years before the beginning of the baby boom and there is a disconnect there because hart, you know, should understand all of the trends.

he should understand that this generation that comes into covering politics after watergate has a different cultural sensibility about privacy, a different series of expectations about personal behavior and morality but he comes from the post depression years in kansas and still has a strong sense of boundaries and privacy and reticence. he said to me at one point, he told me about his uncles who came over after fighting in the battle of the bulge and they returned and they drank all day and ride the rails for weeks and no one ever said to them what happened over there? what had you been through? they would never ask a question like that. so it is not coincidental that hart is the national figure caught up in this because he still has the old world expectations thatñr people will his life and even when the younger aides tell him thisrwq÷ñ changing and the younger reporters have a different way of standards and he doesn't believe it. >> rose: he thought he could do things other people might consider disabling -- >> rose: in a candidacy but

wouldn't write about it? >> he certainly thought they would gone searching forç it, i think he probably had been convinced it could become a story and it had in isolated cases in the past as you know, when personal lives, sexual behavior burst out into political view the press covered it but he did not, i don't think for a specked, believe that anybody would go putting him under surveillance, search fog the evidence and trying to find it, i the et in the privacy of his home he was in the privacy of his home and in that sense the irony of course is because as you know, charlie, gary hart probably more than any political figure of his time could see around corners when it came to foreign policy, the cold war, the transformation of the industrial economy, but he could not see around this one. >> rose: he cared about those things. just intellectually. >> he did not know what would happen. >> take me to the moment and event that led to all that comes after, which you talk about in this book, in terms of hart's downfall with respect to an encounter with the press. >> well the miami herald gets a

tip and the tipster, who i talked to and is in the book, an has not been identified until now, the tipster says to the herald, look he has been hanging out, he has been carrying on this affair with this woman who is a friend of mine and going to visit him in washington, you should go and catch them in the act. because there has been all of this speculation now in the media, well is hart still a lady's man and will he get caught and all of this and he has avoided the questions. so they extend a team of four, five reporters ultimately to his town house in washington, they put it under surveillance, they see him and donna rice, this aspiring actress and pharmaceutical rep leaving and entering, they determine to the best of, to their satisfaction she has spent the night although that later becomes controversial and he notice it is surveillance, and he leaves on this by star chase through the neighborhood, first by car, then by foot and then there is this really remarkable confrontation, amazing moment in american

politics, even going back and looking at it, it is bizarre, they confront him in the oil stained alley behind his town house, and these reporters have the presumed nominee of the democratic party, the most important democrat in the country up against a brick wall, quite literally and pep herring, peppering him with question, what is this woman doing in your house, who is she and refuses to answer, none of your business, and from that they write the story that then spreads like wildfire around the country,. >> rose: and everybody wants to know every detail of the story?. and everybody want to know everything and hart fights on for most of that week and then there is this other truly incredible moment in new hampshire where paul taylor, the star reporter for the washington post says ask hart on national tv in front of the assembled press corps at this heated news conference, have you ever committed adultery, and it is the first time any presidential candidate has been asked a question like that and i can tell you the people in that room

all to a person remember it like it was yesterday because it was such a stunning moment to hear that question asked and he said, i don't think that is a fair question. >> rose: what he really said i don't have to answer that, didn't he. >> he said some version, i don't think that is a fair question i shouldn't have to answer it. >> rose: i don't have to answer that question. i am not going to answer that question. it is like i am affronted by the question. >> interestingly he had prepped, he had been prepped for this. his press secretary, kevin sweeney said to him on the plane to new hampshire you could be asked if you ever is have you ever cheated on your wife, he said well i don't have to answer that question and i don't have to and sweeney says said that is exactly the answer i want to give you, but in the room in the assembled press conference under that pressure and glare, he hesitates more, he is more reluctant because he has so much going on in his mind one of which he is looking at all of these reporters some of whom he knows have had affairs who are married on his campaign, and thinking to himself, how can they be staring at me demappedding an answer to this

question, it is really bizarre. >> rose: .. this reminds of me of a famous story, when asked a question, you first maybe that should have been his answer. >> rose: so then, all of a sudden, what happened in american journalism? >> what happened? >> well, in a sense, the conversation in american journalism at that point should have been more robust than it was. there should have been, you know, a long conversation about where we were headed. but as you know, this quote, in a sense got in the way, the follow me around quote, what happens is immediately after, as soon as the herald puts out its expose and cites this quote, put a tail on me and follow me around. and that quote becomes the thing that actually follows him around for the rest of his life. toy believes, well he dared the press and the presses to followed of course that is not true, that quote had not come out the by the time they put him

under surveillance and really used later as a rationalization, but because of it, there never is really a reckoning with the corner that has been turned, and from that time on, there really are no boundaries in political journalism. >> rose: and if there ought to be a debate today, what ought to be the boundaries? >> well, you know, for me i mean, i did not write the book to -- to further an agenda by how we should treat privacy or shouldn't. to me it is just a fascinating story of the moment when something fundamental shifted. and i think the take away is larger than stones of privacy or, zones of privacy or sex or scandals, it is about have we created a media culture and process that is unendurable for normal people. have we created a process that, a. >> drives too many people away from otherwise who are qualified. >> rose: to contribute to the country 0 do not want to go through the process. >> right or drums out good people or attracts the wrong people. >> rose: with respect to the

nominating process. >> yes. >> people don't want to go through the nominating process. >> right. and it is related, because they know we are always looking for thing that can destroy them. there is no higher calling after hart in american political journalism1 candidate, and, you know, as i say this goes back to want with watergate in a sense, but, you know, my entire era of politics, covering politics, has been about trying to expose the lie in politicians and i think we need to step back and reevaluate the culture we have created whether it is cesc%o warned in 1987 in a prescient speech getting the leaders we deserve. >> rose: because people don't want to run. hart whom great interest. in 2003 he, you had a meeting. >> yes. >> what was interesting about that meeting to you? > saw him, i saws0ñz aneñáuw ited about running for president

again, i was a relatively new writer at the new york times mag seen and i thought, why would a guy been through that want to go through itu come out, he said sure, it is one of the things you magazinewñr)cbrfd piece,ví absolut=@+te9k brilliant, he just had a great mind .. he was incredibly prescient about where we were headed as a country,8l ñ he tad about the folly of potential the invasion of iraq, not only would be hard to extricate but likely create more terrorism than it would extinguish, he talked about a coming recession or depression for the economy. i mean he was really quite prescient more than i realized at the time. but deeply wounded, and it became pretty apparent to me he% in the arena. he just chaired the national security commission in 2001 which was a really seminal commission that didi/- sense predict the outbreak of te

didn't like it much and i went9ñ really stuck with me and meeting hi=$]d feel there was a connection to our moment and something deeper had happened in 1987 i hadn't come to fully understand and as a writer i hate the feeling that i haven't, haven't gotten to the bottom of something and want to understand it so i decided to go back. >> rose: do you ever become -- do you ever accept that period of history that you would have had an opportunity to live your dream and hasi2ys it been deniet by inabilities but by your flaws? >> well, i think it is very hard for him. i think he females guilty, clearly, because he put himself in a compromising situation at the very least, and there were a lot of people counting on him and he feels that had he become president he would have been a great president and he feels that had he become president a minimum history changes because george h.w. bush isn't 43 and

george w. bush and almost certainly not president and all of the events of the last ten years, 15 years are different. so he has to live with that and it is painful for him. but i also think, you know, for all of these years he has resisted doing the things thatym politicians would do if they wanted to rehabilitate themselves and image. he hasn't done the teary interview and hasn't written a memoir and go gone on the election circuit because he fundamentally believes it is nobody's business that he shouldn't have to share those parts of -- >> rose: and to live with his family and practice law. >> he did and got a ph.d. at oxford and written a ton of books, but, you know, the question i ask people is, as we decided this man was deficient of character, in fact we used him as the standard of deficiency in character for a long time afterward, and i leigh it to people to decide, is character the guy who goes out and says and does whatever he has to do and exposes him family

to any measure of scrutiny and lack of privacy to get the prize or the guy who will give up his career am byes on the point he won't have to talk about things and in fact talking about his private life he is legitimatizing a kind of journalism that is bad for the country. that is an important question. >> rose: are we different than other nations and more tyrannical on sex and politics? >> i think we always have been and there are people who would argue that there is aj% continm and we work through it, right? there is an argument, okay hart gets drummed out but clinton becomes president and maybe we just have become more like europe where we have scandals but we survive them and fine with people. i reject that argument, because i think at we have actually -- what we actually enup doing is changing the definition of leadership and suitability for office. we all say that bill clinton was the greatest politician of his age, what we really mean most of the time and i think bill clinton is an intellectual giant but what we really mean most of

the time is that he was able to evade our traps and survive scandal in a way that very few people could and that is what we consider in the modern age to be the ultimate -- >> rose: one, a, you can evade the trap, or, b, you can have such popularity and good will that even if people question what you might have done they prefer a flawed president who they believe is doing a good job, than a president who they have real questions about or a would-be president as to whether they would do a good job. >> yes. i mean, that is -- that is probably the most charitable way to look at the clinton presidency, but i think there is -- there is a certain shamelessness and ability to say and do whatever you have to do to run the traps. >> rose: right. >> -- that is a kind of political genius but i guess the question i would ask is, is it

the kind of political genius that enables a country to go through wrefning transition and lead the way forward and tell you difficult truths you may need to and i think that, i think that is an unanswered question. >> and the question comes up about lying an how people perceive the person as an individual. it is one thing to have an affair and another thing to seem somehow, the way you did it, and how you spoke about it gives you, thinking of candidates, they just -- they are disgusted by it. >> right. well, i think it is true that, you know, had you asked, look, had you asked, franklin roosevelt or john kennedy or lyndon johnson, have you ever committed adultery, they would have x:m0ñ no and lied and maybe we would have considered that disqualifying and insufficiency of character but i think most americans consider all of them to have been pretty good presidents on balance, if not

great ones. >> rose: are we different today in terms of all of these ideas because of twitter, social media and facebook and all of that? >> that makes itie that complicates. >> rose: because everything gets out. >> yes, i talk about it in the book and everything gets taken out of context and whatever you said you didn't mean to say becomes the one time you misspeak it shoots around the world before you get to the next event. bob kerry john kerry said to me in the context of his experience in vietnam and how it played out politically later, he said we are not the worst things we have ever done in our lives and there is a tendency to think that we are and i mention that again in the book, because i think, i think it is one of the core lessons of this book i have written and the core lessons are the hard stories, none of us, including journalists and my it is worst moments of our lives and we have constructed a system by which that is exactly what you are and how you are judged and it is wrong. >> rose: is it likely to change? >> not all at once but i have -- i am always -- i am always an optimist aboutl/ journalism and

generations have the capacity to bring about change we could not have imagine and i remain hopeful about that. >> rose: what is the lesson to be learned about the arc of president obama's experience in the white house? >> well, it is fun in any a way there is a lot of similarity between hart and obama in terms of their personalities, both a little professorial and little intellectual, looking perhaps arrogant, the retail part of the it but the difference being i think hart was, had spent a long time governing and thinking about governing and was very, very ready to be president, i think president obama has had some difficulty partly because he is always thinking through his own philosophy and world view on this huge stage. and i think part of that. >> rose: and. >> and part of that is a reflection of our obsession with entertainment and personality, part of president obama's was an entertainment culture, the candidacy, in which he was a character and narrative and

loved it and that view of politics as a kind of celeb entertainment is a kind of sporting event is precisely what hart warned about and i think what began in that moment. >> but we also have the following things, one did film lincoln, how he negotiated to get the legislation he wanted passed on slavery, proclamation, and president/u books that have been win and a play that was on broadway, the sense that the country somehow wants someone that will make the system work. >> right. >> rose:. >> rose:. >> but here is the problem. we want a lyndon johnson who can make the system work. we cannot abide the personality that comes with that. we want someone, charlie, who can turn on the charm and the bullying and the manipulative qualities and the neediness when it works in the political arena, but turn it off so that they never get into trouble in a personal way, never do anything untoward in their personal life and always treat people well we

can't have that unless and until you accept politicians as the flawed complex human beings that the rest of us are. >> rose: so when you look at 2016, are people prepared, do you think, to see -- i mean, elections are always about the future, i think. >> i agree. >> rose: and some people i can i think look toá]t they want the future to be propelled by change, propelled by fresh ideas, and they look at people who have been around for a time and they say, welshes, you know, let's not and therefore it allows someone like barack obama to breakthrough if they are skilled, if they are articulate, if they have an experience that in a sense people say i feel good about supporting this idea. someone with a terrific academic record, someone who had a terrific family, someone of color, someone who made people

feel like yet at the same time when push comes to shove they want -- >> they want change. it is an embodiment of change. it is people desperate he want -- >> rose: and maybe what we are going to see in 2016 possibly could be clinton versus bush. >> yes. because i think at the same tame we want the desperately want change in the system, we also want to feel a sense of the restoration of order, particularly the parties and their establishments but i think a lot of the voters too, and primary voters there is a sense that everything is out of control that in both parties there is too much unpredictability an in world there is too much unpredictability and there is a comfort in reaching back to family names that you know, to moments that you remember when things seemed more orderly, and so i think increasingly we do reach back in kind of a dynastic way and i don't know you can move forward as a country doing that too much. >> rose: everything you have said in this book, all is, all the truth is out, is this

judgment of mine, political reporting has never been better in the country. do you disagree with that? because i think that a degree of analysis, the degree of analysis in american media about important issues of our time is more than any one person can even read and i try to read a lot of it because of what i do. i mean, reported opinions on foreign policy, i mean people who now do what formerly was done only in books they give you an analysis of decisions that are being made. i think what peter baker is doing in "the new york times" about the obama administration"m and how he is making his way. we are getting a quality of journalism that is really first-rate. >> we are. i was just on the phone of peter walker and went over the same thing. i think there is probably more exceptional journalism about government out there than there has been before but at the same time i think we have to acknowledge our role in this story, and this story is sort of the beginning of it in having created a culture whereby it

gets harder and harder to do that kind of journalism because it gets harder and y5d understand politicians to get near there and imhuman nate their ideas and fewer politician whose have grand ideas so while there is great journalism being done and i agree with you, more than ever before, there is less scope and depth to our politics to cover, and i think we have a role in that and we have to acknowledge the role we have played in creating that dynamic. >> rose: this book again i said it three or four times, at all truth is out, matt bai, thank you. >> thank you it is always fun talking to you. >> rose: for more about this program and early episodes visit us online at pbs.org and charlierose.com. >> captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

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>> funding for charlie rose has been provided by the coca-cola company, supporting this program since 2002. american express. additional funding provided by -- >> >> and by bloomberg. a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide.

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