captioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer productions >> ifill: tensions run high in hong kong as throngs of protestors demand the government leader resign but he refuses and warns demonstrators not to take over government buildings. good evening, i'm gwen ifill. >> woodruff: and i'm judy woodruff. also ahead this thursday, as sea ice retreats, tens of thousands of walruses abandon arctic waters for the shores of alaska. >> ifill: taxi drivers struggle to compete with tech companies, like uber and lyft, that have changed the way people hail rides. >> the taxi industry is so upset, not because of the technology orñiñi the taxi induy is being beatçó by>$4g

they now have toñi cos0#te agait people who don't have toñr playy the same rules.ñi >> woodruff: plus, "house of cards" star and oscar-winning actor kevin spacey shifts focus from his own career in hollywood to cultivate a new generation of talent. >> you know, if you have been successful in the business you wanted to be successful in, its your obligation to spend a good portion of your time sending the elevator back down. >> ifill: those are some of the stories we're covering on tonight's pbs newshour. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by:

>> and with the ongoing support of these institutions and... >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> ifill: the leader of hong kong's government defied calls that he step down today and he put protesters on notice to stay back from key sites. but, the pro-democracy crowds showed no sign that they'd be cowed. lucy watson of independent television spent the day among the protesters, and filed this report. >> reporter: there were moments of action. and confusion. with emotions overrunning. how could they keep these streets under their control? it's authority versus youth. weapons against toys and the

tension is mounting. >> it's a bit more tense. because we have observed that the government tried to move in some weapons or some tear gas into the headquarters. >> reporter: but napa wong is here to keep the peace, but isn't fearful of what this could bring. >> after the first tear gas shoot us i think the people are not afraid anymore. but they feel very angry. i think angry, more than afraid. >> reporter: the number of protesters camping out here is growing by the minute in a face off with police, and that's because this government building is the office of the chief executive of hong kong, and what they don't want is for him to be

able to come here to work tomorrow. because the man from the glass tower still won't resign. he does say he's now willing to talk. yet if protesters invade this building the consequences will be serious and they will respond. >> ifill: for a closer look at what's driving these young people to the streets we turn to demetri sevastopulo, south china correspondent for the financial times. he's in hong kong and i spoke to him a short time ago by skype. >> demetri sevastopulo, thank you for joining us. can you tell us how these incredible protests that we've seen spring up, these hundreds of thousands of people in the street, how did they spring up so quickly and so aggressively? >> well, students started boycotting classes and protesting last week, and at the end of the week on friday, a couple hundred students stormed an area outside one of the main government buildings in hong kong. a bunch of them were arrested,

and that caused sympathy for the student movement and the pro-democracy movement in hong kong. on sunday morning a group decided to launch a civil disobedience campaign, piggybacking on the back of the students' success in generating sympathy. then over fast five days you've had massive outpouring of support and huge numbers of people on the streets of hong kong doing what's been an incredibly peaceful protest. it's really been an amazing situation here. >> ifill: it is a different kind of protest, no question. what are they protesting? are they protesting beijing's strong hand when it comes to voting? >> at the moment they're protesting two things. first thing is beijing wants to implement june very sal suffrage, which everybody wants in hong kong. people at the moment cannot vote for their chief executive, but beijing has implemented tough restriction, which means that the public will have no role in nominating the candidates, and secondly, it's very difficult for anyone who is a critic of

beijing to get on the ballot. so the people say there's no point having universal suffrage if you're not give an genuine choice. the second thing they're fighting for at the moment is c.y. leung. he's come under huge pressure, particularly since sunday when he ordered the police to fire tear gas at peaceful demonstrators. now unless he goes, i think the students are not going to be satisfied. >> ifill: beijing is now talking about unimaginable consequences when it comes to pushing become on these protests. do we know what that means? >> beijing has said they think hong kong can handle the situation, but at the end of the day, if the hong kong police are unable to manage the protest, if they got so out of control that it was very difficult for them, it is conceivable that china might decide to send in pla soldiers. i think it's very unlikely, but you can't rule it out completely. >> ifill: they're talking about opening talks. what kind of talks are we

talking about? >> well, the chief executive faced a midnight deadline for his resignation. the students said if he didn't this that today they would storm government buildings and occupy government buildings. as a way to ease the tension, he gave some crowd. he said we'll have talks with the students, but he also said he wouldn't resign, so the talks is a way for the different groups, the protesters, the students, occupy central to sit down with the government and see if they can reach some kind of a compromise. i think very few people think there will be any scope to do that. >> ifill: demetri sevastopulo of the "financial times" from hong kong by skype, thank you for joining us. >> woodruff: in the day's other news. health officials in texas now say as many as 100 people may have been exposed to an ebola patient in dallas. all had direct or indirect contact with thomas duncan after he arrived from liberia last month. meanwhile, some families have begun keeping children out of several schools.

five students who attend those schools were exposed to duncan. but superintendent mike miles sought to reassure parents today. >> we do not think there is any virus at any of those buildings, but we'll take that off the table so we're doing extra cleaning and disinfecting. and now we're also enrolled the five students into the homebound program so that they will get the curricular supports and technology supports to continue their education. >> woodruff: four of thomas duncan's relatives have been ordered to stay in their homes-- under police guard-- for 21 days, to see if they show symptoms. and in liberia, authorities announced today they will prosecute duncan for allegedly lying on a health form that he filled out before leaving the country. >> ifill: officials in saudi arabia are moving to keep the kingdom ebola-free as an estimated two million muslims stream into mecca for the annual hajj pilgrimage. the saudis have refused to issue visas to anyone from sierra leone, liberia, and guinea.

and, the health ministry says all others are being asked to fill out medical screening cards as they arrive. the hajj lasts five days. >> woodruff: turkey's parliament today authorized using military force against islamic state militants in iraq and syria. lawmakers voted to authorize cross-border military incursions. the defense minister also said foreign troops will be allowed to use turkish territory and military bases in the fight. >> ( translated ): the existence of islamist militants in the region, 37 kilometers away from the turkish-syrian border is an obvious threat against our national security. the turkish republic will not hesitate to take the necessary steps to fulfill this responsibility. >> woodruff: the vote followed a warning by kurdish militants in turkey. they threatened to abandon peace talks with the ankara government if fellow kurds living in syria are massacred. >> ifill: back in this country,

president obama returned his focus to the economy, with the mid-term elections a month away. he spoke at northwestern university, and said, that by every economic measure the country is better off than when he took office. but acknowledged, that's not enough. >> it is also indisputable that millions of americans don't yet feel enough of the benefits of a growing economy where it matters most in their own lives. and these truths aren't incompatible. our broader economy in the aggregate has come a long way, but the gains of recovery are not yet broadly shared. >> ifill: in fact, the president said, income inequality is the worst it's been in decades and he said, "i find that hard to swallow." >> woodruff: j.p morgan chase confirmed today it has had a data breach.

no evidence any info was actually stolen. on wall street today, the dow jone industrial average last three points to close at 16,801; the nasdaq rose eight points to close at 4,430; and the s&p 500 was virtually unchanged at 1,946. >> ifill: still to come on the newshour: debating when supreme court justices should retire. students in colorado walk out of class to protest changes to their history curriculum. as sea ice retreats, tens of thousands of walruses come ashore in alaska. pushback from taxi drivers as uber and lyft disrupt the business of hitching a ride. how politics become deeply personal and changed journalism. and, actor kevin spacey on "singing for his supper" and cultivating new talent. >> woodruff: the nine supreme court justices met today to discuss some of the cases they will consider when their fall

term begins monday. it's expected to be another consequential term as the court weight issues around workplace dress codes, housing discrimination, campaign contribution rules, and more. it's also possible the court will hear a potentially landmark case on same-sex marriage. to walk us through it all, we are joined now, as we so often are by marica coyle of "the national law journal." hello, marcia. >> hi, judy. >> woodruff: is a busy day at the court. you were there. tell us what happened. >> well, the justices today added 11 cases to the 37 they've already agreed to decide in the few term, which as you said, opens next week. those 11 cases are important and interesting in a sense because they are culled from hundreds of petitions that are filed with the court during the summer months, and as you also pointed out, there was high anticipation today that the justices might do something on seven same-sex

marriage petitions from five states that are waiting. they did nothing, but take nothing from that. they may accolater in the term. >> woodruff: we did hear about a couple of cases. one was a closely watched arizona congressional redistricting. >> that's right. in 2000 arizona votedders approved an amendment to their constitution that creates an independent, bipartisan commission to handle congressional redistricting, the redrawing of districts following the last census. it was an attempt to depoliticize redistricting. the arizona legislature has challenged that, claiming that that takes away power that's granted to them to do redistricting under the elections clause of the u.s. constitution. >> woodruff: another case they say they'll take up and hear arguments on comes from florida having to do with political contributions. >> this was very interesting. the court for a number of terms now has been deregulating money in campaigns. this involves judicial

candidates, something like 30 states have codes of judicial conduct that include rules that bar judicial candidates from personally soliciting campaign contributions. a former judicial candidate has challenged that under first amendment grounds and said -- so the justices will take a look at whether this is censoring speech at the core of the first amendment. >> woodruff: another was texas and housing discrimination. >> yes. this involves where you can can bring claims under the federal fair housing act, discrimination claims without proving intentional discrimination. that sounds odd, but intentional discrimination is very difficult to prove today, and the courts have recognized under a number of laws certain types of claims can be proven with statistics showing that a federal rule or a regulation has a disproportionate impact on minorities. this case involves the federal

fair housing act, and the justices have to decide if that type of a claim, what we call "disparate impact claim," can be brought under this particular law. >> woodruff: i know you're going to be watching all of these cases when they come up, starting next week. >> could be another blockbuster. we'll have the wait and see. >> woodruff: all right. we're getting the popcorn out. marcia coyle, thank you. >> my pleasure, judy. >> woodruff: now for a different question that justices face, when they are appointed to the supreme court, it's a job for life. but should it be? that question is now being directed at the oldest sitting justice. jeffrey brown explores the endurance of ruth bader ginsburg. >> brown: and i'm joined by legal experts and court watchers. you wrote an essay in a political magazine calling for justice ginsburg to step down. he's the dean of the court of law.

and we're also joined by jeffrey rosen, the legal affairs editor and the president and c.e.o. of the national constitution center. well, summarize the case for justice ginsburg stepping down for us. >> in march of this year, i read an op-ed in the "los angeles times" urging justice ginsburg to step down at the end of the term, which was this past july. i said that's the only way she could be sure that someone with her views and values would take place on the court. if the republicans take the senate in november, president obama picks a successor, i'm greatly concerned. if a republican wins the presidency in 2016, a conservative would then be taking her place. >> brown: so jeffrey rosen, it's a kind of political strategy motive i guess. what's your response? >> well, i asked justice ginsburg what her response was to the calls that she resign, and she said she responded to academics who called for her resignation, "who better than i could get through the senate right now?"

her position is justices in the past have resigned because of ill health or because they literally wanted to go hiking, like justices souter and o'connor, who justice ginsburg talked about. and she feels and she confirms that she's at the height of her power. she's writing opinions faster than anyone else. she's a leader for the liberal opposition. she feels given that fact, there is no need for her to resign. >> brown: you're not making that argument that she's impaired in any way, are you? >> of course not. this isn't about her ability to be a terrific justice. this is the question of: how long is it likely she'll stay on the court and who will replace her? she's 81 years old. if the republicans take the senate, if a republican is elected in 2016, it's highly unlikely that a democratic president will be able to pick a progressive for her seat. >> brown: is it a good idea for justices to be watching the mid-term elections, who controls the senate?

do we want them to be doing that? >> of course we do. we've got to expect that they will. justice ginsburg cares deeply about the issues that come before the court. if she wants someone with her values or justice scalia wants someone with his values on the court, it all depends on who is the president and who is controlling the senate. >> brown: jeffrey rosen, what do you think? should she be looking at the mid-term elections and thinking about the legacy of her point of view? >> you know, justices follow the election return, but i'm not sure they follow the mid-terms, as well. i'm sure she's concerned about her legacy. of course she is. she must be betting on some level that a democrat has a good chance of being elected the next time around, but given that bet, i think it's perfectly appropriate for her at the height of her power, at a time when more than any other justice she's become a galvanizing leader of the liberal opposition, for her to continue the service she's doing so ably.

>> brown: do you think, jeffrey rosen, that any particular cases, for example gay marriage may get taken up again, something she might care very deeply about. is that a factor for her? >> even more than some of her liberal colleagues she is an uncompromising voice for liberalism on the court, and we discussed cases in which she was not willing to compromise, such as the recent hobby lobby case where justices kagan and breyer took a separate position. bush v. gore also was a case where justice ginsburg, unlike her colleague, was unwilling to compromise. i think she believes, as the senior associate justice responsible for assigning the dissenting opinion, that she has a unique ability and she's doing it very well to convince all of the liberals to converge around a single dissent, and i think that she believes that she more than anyone else who could get confirmed right now, as she said, really can defend liberal values better than anyone else. >> brown: it raises an ole question in part: should there

be term limits or age limits for supreme court justices? >> i do believe there should be term limits for supreme court justices. it's one of the things that i argue for in my new book. life expectancies thankfully are much longer today than in 1787 when the constitution was written. clarence thomas was 43 years old when he was confirmed for the supreme court in 1991. if he remains until he's 90, the age which justice stevens stepped down, he will be a supreme court justice for 47 years. elena kagan, john roberts were each 50 when they were confirmed. if they stay until they're 90, they'll be there for 40 years. that's too much power for one person to exercise for too long a period of time. >> brown: jeffrey rosen, what do you think? does the system need changing? >> there's a decent argument for term limits. irwin has made it very well. it would requirement a

constitutional amendment, and that's not going to happen. justices can emerge and change. one thing that emerged, i asked her, when you were appointed, people thought you were a minimalist, a judge's judge. now you're on fire, you're the leader of the opposition. i feel as a longtime observer and friend of justice ginsburg that she has found her voice. that she's gained the confidence to really not only be a legal technician but a powerful voice for liberal constitutional ideals that she's grown on the job and she's inspiring young women especially all over the world. she's become an internet sensation. she's loving the fact that she's inspiring people and it's a testament to growth and maturity and the virtues of really learning how to do the job. >> brown: all right. thank you both very much. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> ifill: there are protests happening again tonight in

suburban denver. in colorado's second largest school district, where students have been battling over what should be taught in a.p. history. some national standards have changed. in recent weeks colorada has been the central focus. >> sreenivasan: the conflict over curriculum that's sparked nearly two weeks of protests has now come to a head. it's the prime topic at tonight's school board meeting in jefferson county, colorado, just outside denver. board president ken witt: >> i hope we get good dialogue and a good plan for how to execute the board's obligation to oversee curriculum and to make certain we're doing the right thing for our students to ensure that we're offering balanced, thorough curriculum and that we're fulfilling our responsibility as a board. >> sreenivasan: the battle began when the college board set out

new national standards for advanced placement u.s. history courses. they're used by college-bound students to earn college credits. but a number of conservatives argued the standards depict the united states in a negative light and distort key events. in jefferson county, the school board's conservative majority called for naming a committee to make changes. one member offered a plan that said classroom materials should: promote citizenship, patriotism, essentials and benefits of the free enterprise system, respect for authority and respect for individual rights. at the same time, it said, the course should not: encourage or condone civil disorder, social strife or disregard of the law. that language set off waves of students leaving class to march with signs and flags. >> if we allow them to censor apus, what's going the stop them from censoring other classes? i feel it's our duty or our right as meshes to learn our full history, because it's from that full history that we can grow into a better country.

we have to learn from those dark pasts in our history. that's what creates a better country. that's what we all need the learn from. >> sreenivasan: the board's majority has reacted by dropping the most contentious language in its proposal. again, board president witt. >> i think the issue needs to be that we're having balanced, thorough curriculum, not any particular viewpoint on bias. we want to make sure that we're eliminating bias, because there's never a desire on anyone's part, that i'm aware of, for there to be censorship or bias in our curriculum. >> sreenivasan: but the revisions in the proposal have failed to douse the firestorm. some students say they simply don't trust the board members. >> in the months that i've been following this board they have never given the community the whole truth, and so i'm not going to believe that, because they changed the petition, they are listening to the community now and, all of a sudden, they are going to let us be involved. i still think their original intentions are still there. >> sreenivasan: teachers who've joined the protest have also used it to voice concerns over a merit-based compensation package.

they consider it unfair. similar fights are playing out elsewhere-- especially in texas and south carolina-- as the college's board's u.s. history guidelines generate national debate. back in jefferson county, the protesters have picked up support from the college board. the group warns any school that omits essential concepts in its courses will lose its advanced placement designation. >> woodruff: when it comes to animal pictures going viral on the web, the homely walrus hasn't been at the top of the list,but put 35,000 walruses together on a beach in alaska, and that's a different story. these images, the largest gathering of pacific walruses ever recorded, has indeed done just that. that's walruss have been the stars of the internet. the u.s. national oceanic and atmospheric administration

spotted them last weekend during its annual survey of marine mammals. the location is near point lay, alaska. scientists say a loss of sea ice is a big part of the reason the walruses are "hauling out," the term used to describe them moving on to land. margaret williams is a managing director of the arctic program for the world wildlife fund and she joins me now. welcome to the news hour. >> hi, judy. >> woodruff: so why are the walruses doing this? what's going on? >> well, walruses are one of the many species in the arctic highly dependent on the arctic sea ice, so mothers raise their calves on the sea ice. animals use sea ice as platform from which to dive to eat their food. walruses like the eat clams and shellfish. when the sea ice melt, they have to go somewhere to rest and reach their food. so they're coming ashore in large numbers.

the sea ice is melting so rapidly. it's melting earlier in the summer and forming later in the spring, so the arctic sea ice is changing dramatically. >> how unusual is this? has it ever happened before? >> this is the largest number of walruses we've seen in alaska. it's a sign of tremendous change. it's a sign that arctic wildlife distributions and life's history patterns are actually changing pretty much before our eyes. we have seen large hallouts on the russian coast and we work closely with russian scientists and communities, so they have told us about these large numbers on the russian side, but this is first time these numbers have been seen in alaska. >> woodruff: so they need sea ice for survival. >> absolutely. >> woodruff: what are the implications for walrus, other mammal, for humans? >> humans are absolutely connected to the story of the walrus because this is a story about climate change. the walrus depend on that sea ice habitat just as polar bears do, just as whales do.

the arctic is an incredible sea ice environment. as it changes, there is increasing evidence that changes in the sea ice are influencing the jetstream, which then has implications for weather pat patterns in the lower 48 and around the country. >> woodruff: what can be done about it? it seems like it's such a remote area. can humans do something specifically about these walruses? >> they absolutely. can we're so lucky to have fabulous scientists with noaa and the u.s. geological survey and the u.s. fish and wildlife service. communities have take an great role in protecting the walruses while they're on shore, both in russia and alaska. they're trying to reduce disturbances while the walruses are ashore. walruses are very skittish in these great numbers. they can easily cause stamp periods among their own members. if a polar bear comes or a noisy

helicopter or aircraft goes above the walruses, they can easily get frightened and rush into the water. so communities are keeping disturbances low. and that's one of the key things. also a key threat and the concern of the world wildlife fund is the potential for off-shore oil and gas development in the arctic ocean. we're very concerned that right now there's just simply not the technology to contain an oil spill if an oil spill were to happen in the arctic ocean, and the arctic ocean is, again, key habitat for walruses, not only walruses, but fish, seals and that healthy ocean is so critical to so many people living around the arctic. >> woodruff: margaret williams with the world wildlife fund, we thank you. >> thank you, judy. >> ifill: is the traditional taxi becoming an endangered species?

in the age of the smart phone, it's becoming more and more likely as consumers trying to get from here to there opt for technology-driven ride sharing. correspondent paul solman takes us along on the ride as part of his on-going reporting making sense of financial news. >> solman: the long-regulated taxi industry and its drivers are under siege. >> these guys jump in the car. they're providing the same service we are, totally unregulated, totally unsafe. it's not fair. >> okay. you got it. we're on the way. all. >> solman: it's a classic fight between regulatory tradition and technological disruption. drivers like these who work for san francisco's oldest cab company are caught in the cross-fire. >> i feel betrayed. i've been a driver for 20 years. i give up half my life for this industry. >> solman: the uber system allows riders to request drivers

at any time. you've probably heard of this tech threat, even if you haven't used it yet. uber, a mobile phone app which connects passengers with non-cabbie drivers for hire. a new surge of competition on the road unregulated. >> to drive a taxicab, you have to get a background check, you have to go the taxi school, you have to be licensed. >> solman: hon-soo kim owns this taxi company. >> the taxi industry is so upset not because the taxi industry is being beat by technology, but they now have to compete against people who don't have to play by the same rules. >> solman: might this put you out of business? >> yes, and not just me, the entire taxi industry. >> solman: in san francisco alone, traditional taxi trips have plummeted 65% in the last 15 months. uber, like its smaller competitor, lift and side car, respond in technology-driven san francisco, developing mobile phone apps that especially among

young people have become all the rage. in over 200 cities, just open the app, request a ride, and the driver arrives in minutes. uber spokesperson rachel holt. >> when you add in a layer of technology, what that means is you're a lot more efficient at finding fares and at finding passengers. which means you can do more trips per hour, which means you can have lower prices. >> solman: m.a. sherman was doing some work at my house outside boston, to which she commuted from hers by uber. >> that's how i'm heading home. so now i've got this gentleman driving a lexus gs and that's where he currently is. >> solman: drivers are rated by riders on a one to five scale. you pay via an account you've already set up. you can summon a limo or cab, but it's the low-priced uber x in which drivers use their own cars that poses the big threat. how much is it going to cost you

to take the uber x from here to your house? >> it would usually be about $20. >> solman: if i took a normal taxi, it would have to be twice that. >> oh, easily. >> solman: and that includes tip? >> that's everything. there's nothing extra on top of that. >> solman: so lower cost, higher convenience, and for some customers the ability to get a ride at all. >> just a few months ago, i couldn't even get a cab ride, you know. i'd have to pretty much use a friend, you know, i just couldn't get a ride. >> >> solman: why not? >> i think it's because of the color of my skin, believe it or not. >> solman: there are also advantages for the do-it-yourself drivers. this former mortgage loan officer was drawn by driver flexibility. >> i can wear what i want. i can work when i want. i have no meetings.

six weeks after i started driving uber, i walked into the office and said, see ya, guys, i'm done. >> solman: but there are hard truths in unregulated markets. uber, in its bid to undercut both taxis and similar ride share competitors, has slashed fares repeatedly. good for consumers, but for drivers pay cuts. >> we should be able to drive for uber and make a living wage. >> solman: uber x driver kim works to supplement her job. >> uber is not playing fair wits drivers and with these rate cuts and the way they're implementing these all on the shoulders of the drivers. >> solman: but in an open market, says rachel holtz of uber, its drivers still fare better than cabbies, because lower prices swell their total income. >> many, many, many taxi drivers are leaving the taxi industry, are working on the uber system,

despite the lower prices, because they're doing more trips and they're not paying over two-thirds of what they make every day to, you know, a company. >> solman: meanwhile, uber has been reportedly cutthroat in its quest to expand, ordering rides anonymously, for instance, from archrival lift only to cancel them. it employs contractors to lure drivers away from the competition. and for drivers the world over, who still depend on their regulated cabs to make a living, uber is a brass knuckles competitor undermining their livelihoods. it's provoked global protests and drivers in germany and elsewhere have sought to ban the service. and yet uber, less than five years old, is already worth some $18 billion. this man studies the digital economy at new york university. >> uber's creating a platform

that's replicating the traditional model of taxi, just doing it far more efficiently. >> solman: and while the technology may be disrupted, rachel holtz says uber is improving transportation for everyone. >> taxi companies have traditionally had monopolies. everyone kind of gives the same mediocre level of service. that means there hasn't been much incentive to improve. since we've entered d.c., taxis take credit cards. when we tried to enter miami, they said, don't let uber in and we'll do these other things. >> desoto cab has added to its fleet. we have a demo. so i just hit... >> you request ride, and the request will go over to the driver device. there you see the request coming in. and as soon as i get to your house, i will say, "i'm at the pick-up location," which will

notify you the driver has arrived. >> solman: traditional desoto is hoping to regain drivers by partnering with high-tech fly wheel, a reminder that both technology and competition never really end. >> woodruff: online you can find a profile of taxi owner hon-soo kim. that's on "making sense." >> ifill: sex, drugs and politics, that's all fair game now for reporters covering public officials, but it wasn't always. matt bai pinpoints the exact moment when he says it all changed, back in 1987 when a presidential candidate's extramarital dalliance was made public. his book is all the truth is out, the weak politics went tabloid. matt bai joins us now. so does the gary hart episode,

we're talking about 1987, did it change politics or did it change journalism or both? >> i think it changed both. i mean, it's not like you flip a switch and one moment is all one way and one moment is all the next. there are moments where great change takes place very quickly. and i think there are a lot of things churning in the culture in thed any 1980s and around 1987, things that were changing the media, things that were changing the society, the echoes of watergate were still reverberating. and i think in that moment, decisions were made to treat a president, candidate very differently from the way we ever treated one before. >> ifill: you mentioned echoes of water dweat, which is generally considered to be a good thing, those kinds of echoes, for journalism and also for politics. but did this change... following gary hart, exposing his weakest moment, did it change politics or journalism for better or worse? >> well, i would argue for worse. but that doesn't mean to say that everything that came before was great because i think there was a certain coziness and

clubbiness probably prior to that, that some of the younger journalists were right to question. i think after hart the guiding ethos of political journalism really begins to shift inexorably away from the elimination of ideas and world views and agendas and more toward exposing the lie. we know there's a lie. we know there's hypocrisy and hypocrisy is now very broadly defined. our job is to find out what it is, and it creates a focus on scandal and what it does, it reduces character and fitness to, you know, very narrowly defined moments in a person's life. as bob kerrey said to me when i was researching the book, he said, "you know, we're not the worst things we've ever done in our lives." the problem with so much modern political journalism is we do reduce everyone to the worst moment of their lives. >> ifill: that year was first

presidential campaign i intierd. for my entire time, i remember character being a central part of the narrative of who a candidate is and how voters make their decisions is. that not legitimate? >> it is. character has always been part of politics. it has been especially important after water dweat. the question is in what context do you define a person's character, because it encompasses a lot of things. do they duck votes? do they lie to their constituents? is there corruption? all of these things are all part of public character and private character, as well. what i think the shift that begins with hart is to define character and disqualify someone on the basis of it by one instance or even a pattern of personal behavior that may or may not be relevant or may or may not be large in terms of the whole. >> ifill: in gary hart's case it was being caught on a weekend cruise to -- with donna rice.

he was exposed by the miami herald, and the one-two punch was when he was asked if dull try was something that should not be engaged in. you talked to gary hart. how does he reflect on that now? >> i think it's been extremely difficult and continues to be difficult for hart. what moved me to write the book is not so much the animating themes about privacy and politics, because it's not a manifesto by any means. it's a story. what motivated me was this gripping, unbelievable story, first of the fall, as you point out, with four reporters backing the presumed nominee of the democratic party up against a brick wall and an oil stained alley, he's wearing a white hoodie. the news conference in new hampshire where paul taylor asked him this question. no candidate has ever been asked before, "have you cheated on your wife? have you committed adultery?" but then the years afterward,

it's very important, this period when he goes into exile. he's stigmatized. he wants to serve in some capacity. he wants to come back into public life. but because he's the first, because of what a national joke he became in that moment, it's exceedingly hard for him to overcome. he carries around in those years a lot of guilt for people he let down, but just by putting himself in that situation, but he also carries around a sense of real unfairness because he sees so many other politicians, bill clinton, not the least, you know, moving past scandal and succeed, and he's not really willing to do the kinds of things we expect a politician to do to rehabilitate his image in the modern era and to go on the tour, the open a interview, whatever it is. to me that's just a gripping, compelling, human story that really transcends politics. >> some of these guys survived it. i think david vitter, the senator from louisiana, he got caught up in a scandal but he

survived it. did something change? >> you have people that argue that the success story. the good news is we've learned to work through all. this now you can do whatever you want and the public is dessenstized. i think it's actually deeper and more troubling than that. i think what we did is change the definition of political leadership and the definition of that. we dove away a lot of people who did not want to serve because that process was unendurable, and we reward people who will do anything, subject their family to anything, share any emotion, tell any lie to evade the traps and find their way into office. >> ifill: final question: did the reporters who were central to this, you mentioned the reporters from the ""miami herald," did they look back and say, i have some regrets? >> i spoke to tom and paul and others involved. there are varying levels of conflict, but all of them i think, you know, feel satisfied with what they've done. you know, generally we stand

behind the decisions we made then. and i sympathize. i mean, i'm not indicting them because i think in that moment any of us could have made the same decision. all of us in our careers face difficult choices. what i do have a problem with is i think, you know, a lot of it was misremembered. as you know from reading the book, there is a lot of mythology around this that people have wrong. i think it is the responsibility both of the journalists who were there but of those of us who came later to stand up and say, not only do we have the record wrong on this in a lot of ways, but we fail to grabble with the ramifications of it, and we need to do that in an industry. i find it an interesting read and probably a cautionary table. it should be discussed in journalism classes, as well. matt bai, the author of "when all the truth is out." >> thank you, gwen. appreciate it. >> woodruff: finally tonight, an

acting great talks about cultivating emerging artists, playing frank underwood, and one of his unsung talents. jeffrey brown sat down with kevin spacey this week. >> brown: he is best known these days as frank underwood. the thoroughly manipulative, occasionally murderous congressman turned president in the netflix series, "house of cards." >> ♪ fly me to the moon... >> brown: but on monday night, there was kevin spacey, in the real washington at the shakespeare theatre company's sidney harman hall at a benefit to raise money for the foundation he runs to promote the arts and foster young talent. showing a decidedly different side singing. spacey told me about this at rehearsal the day before, spacey told me about this lesser-known passion of his.

>> i cant quite describe what it feels like when you're standing in front of a forty piece orchestra and you're-- there is nothing between you and an audience but a microphone, its like strapping yourself to a locomotive, and i love it. >> brown: kevin spacey began his performing life in high school in the san fernando valley in california. after community college he attended julliard. before joining the new york shakespeare festival, his first professional stage appearance was as a messenger in a 1981 production of "henry iv." that started a versatile and varied career on broadway, including working with his idol, jack lemmon. and a tony award in 1991. in films, like "glengarry glen ross" and "the usual suspects," "l.a. confidential" and "american beauty," for which he won the 2000 oscar for best

actor. since 2003, spacey has served as artistic director of the "old vic" theatre company in london. acting, directing, helping to preserve the renowned theater. now, he says, most important to him is working with young people around the world, introducing them to theater and, in some cases, giving them the opportunity to make it a career. >> the power of acting, the power of the tools of the living theatre, in terms of being able to help a young person stand up in front of a group of people, find a kind of self-confidence that maybe they never thought they could have, an ability to collaborate with others, ability to communicate with others. >> brown: you see that happen? >> oh, i see it happen, and its always interesting when im in a workshop, and im always looking

for the shy kid in the corner, because that was me, when i grew up, and i started doing these kinds of workshops. >> brown: so you look around the room for where is the me? >> i'm always looking around for where is the me of this room, and that doesn't necessarily mean the show off, because i also had that quality as well, but sometimes its that person in the corner who you can tell, by in the corner who was either very afraid, and in some cases terrified to become involved, or to stand up, or to actually have to speak in front of other people, go in that three hours to a person who has a realization about something, about something about themselves they didn't think possible, and i know, because that was me, i was that kid, that will be a moment they'll always remember. >> brown: explain that, i mean the power of influence in your own life, and you've talked about meeting jack lemmon at age thirteen, right, it changed your life somehow, how exactly, i mean what was the direct influence, or impact? >> well, because for me at the time, i was a kid who, i did not focus very well, i was not really all that academic, i did not really care that much about classes, i was a bit disruptive, i was the class clown, i was making all the jokes in the back of the room, and a guidance counselor who was quite perceptive felt that i had an excessive amount of energy, and

guided me toward some elective courses, and drama was one of them. he clearly saw that i had some potential, and then led me toward this workshop where ultimately we had to get up and do scenes from a play in front of jack lemmon who was running this workshop, and at the end of that he walked up to me, and you know, this was a man who was like my idol, i had grew up loving movies, and maybe secretly wanted to be an actor somewhere in the back of my head, but was very shy, and to have jack lemmon walk up to you when youre thirteen years old and put his hand on your shoulder and say, "you are a born actor, you are meant to do this, you should go to new york and study, you are meant to do this," was such an extraordinary, you know, boost of confidence and it did change my life. i did follow his advice and go to new york, and then, you know, the incredible thing about life and its unexpected journeys, is, is that i ended up then working with jack professionally.

>> brown: there must have been a long period where, you must have >> brown: you have written of an earlier time in your life, i don't know when it was, maybe thirties or something, where i think the term you used was wearing blinders, you were just so focused on building a movie career, right, you remember that? >> yeah, i think because its different, it was different for me, its now different for a lot of other young people starting out now, now, you know, there was still a lot of barriers when i began, now the internet has created a situation where there is no barrier to entry. i've gone through all number of shifts and changes, that was good for that period of time, but then i got to the end of 1999, and i was like, well, american beauty had just come out, and i was like, well, that went better than i could have hoped, and now what, and thats when i decided to shift my ambition, and my entire life, actually, and move to london and start a theatre. >> brown: you used the work decision, was a conscious decision, that now its time to do something else? >> i was sort of like, you know, i mean i know that at the time my agents and manger were

probably, you know, rubbing their hands and thinking, oh, its going to be a gravy train. >> brown: you mean after american beauty you could have done a lot, made a lot of money. >> yeah, i could have spent ten years making a lot of money, and a lot of movies, and i don't know, i just was like, i'd see that trap, i'd seen that happen to a lot of actors before, where, you know, you get to a certain place and you just end up playing the same groove on the same record. >> brown: i have to ask you, sitting here in washington, about frank underwood, because you know, you've created a character here that has, i don't know if it's defining of power politics nowadays, but certainly thats what a lot of people see. what do you see? >> no, because, look i was very, in some degree, in terms of doing the series "house of cards," i was quite fortunate that i had been around politics a long time in my life, i mean i started working when jimmy carter ran, i stuffed envelopes, and i worked for john anderson when he ran for president, and ted kennedy, and then i ended up meeting bill clinton and worked for him before the presidency, after the presidency, during the presidency, so ive been around a lot of the way in which washington operates.

incredible writing, incredible directing, a remarkable group of actors, and a story that is very interesting to tell at this moment when theres very little happening in politics that is positive, in terms of people getting things done. its interesting to play a politician who gets stuff done. >> brown: you make that connection from the role youre playing, to what you see going on? >> i think its why audiences have dug francis underwood, because he kicks ass. >> yeah, he gets things done, if, you know, you ignore the murdering, and the conniving ( laughs ) >> for the arts, because i think that its incredibly important for us to remember that creativity, that imagination, that how the arts move and touch

us, its the thing we talk about, its the thing we share globally, its one of the most important, certainly national things that we take great pride in, but around the world the ability for us to exchange cultures, its one of the reasons why i love being able to go places around the world, and doing workshops, and whether can sometimes do things, say things, achieve things, culturally, that you cant politically, and those kind of barriers are really interesting to keep pushing. >> brown: all right, kevin spacey, thanks for talking to us. >> thank you very much. >> woodruff: you can see jeff's entire conversation online and learn more about the kevin spacey foundation. that's on art beat. >> ifill: again, the major developments of the day. the leader of hong kong's government refused to resign, as a deadline set by pro-democracy protesters came and went. he also warned the crowds not to storm government buildings. health officials in texas reported as many as 100 people may have been exposed to an ebola patient in dallas. >> woodruff: on the newshour online right now researchers are trekking across alaska's glaciers. to find out just how much ice there is beneath them. science correspondent miles o'brien followed them recently

to watch them drill into these frozen giants. see what they found and what it tells us about climate change, on our science page. and on making sense, we examine how wealthy donors are gaining more power over colleges and universities. all that and more is on our web site, newshour.pbs.org. >> ifill: and that's the newshour for tonight. on friday, philadelphia schools under extreme stress, with major budget shortfalls, teachers are forced to get creative. i'm gwen ifill. >> woodruff: and i'm judy woodruff. we'll see you on-line and again here tomorrow evening with mark shields and david brooks. for all of us here at the pbs newshour, thank you and good night. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: ♪ ♪

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