>> rose: welcome to the program. we begin this evening with a new film it called the judge and stars robert downey, jr. and robert duvall it is directed by david dobkin. >> if you just start talking and listening, and nothing more than that, and see where that goes, if you do that purely, then you'll be rewarded around the corner for something better and higher, if you do that on a basic level within the bigger idea is what sort of risks are you willing to take, are you a natural film acker, you know, and then the other is are you brave enough to do something that if it doesn't go well it could be ridiculed for doing something insdul ghent and graphic and dramatic, you know. >> we continue with lissan dwan, she stars in three beck ed plays at the brooklyn academy of music. not i, footballs and rocca bye. >> what i find interesting about-- is that he's really

starting to shake off joist's influence. that vock you lar playfulness, and i'm less attracted to it now if i really looked at what i think is pure beckett, where he distilled and distilled and paraed away all the fat until are you left with something really potent, this real potent essence. >> robert downey, jr., robert duvall, david dobkin and lisa dwan when we continue. >> funding for charlie roast is provided by the follo following-- charlie rose is provided by the following: additional funding provided by and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news

and information services worldwide. from our studios in new york captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> the judge of the new film directed by david dobkin featuring award-winning acker robert downey, jr. and robert duvall it tells the story of a judge accused of murder and his estranged son who defends him. here is the trailer. >> the infamous hank palmer. >> jaded lawyer with no respect for the law. >> did that just happen? >> how does it feel knowing every person you represent is guilty? >> fine innocent people can't afford me. all rise. >> is there anything either counsel would care to add. >> my mom passed away this morning. >> is this the first time your mother passed away or is this something you do on all the cases you are about to lose. >> first time. >> so grandpa palmer said to

you. >> no he said to me, that's like a figure of speech. >> kind of complicated. i should go with you. >> trust me, nobody wants to go -- oh gosh. you can barely stand the sight of each other. >> henry? >> judge? >> hank, thanks for coming. i am sure your mother would have appreciated it. hank palmer. >> hank, sheriff, it's regarding your father. >> biggest mistake of your career, you just happen to run him over. >> forensic found blood on your dad's car. >> sat on the bench in that courtroom for 42 years. >> this was an accident, period. >> we need to establish a firm defense. >> there's no we here, henry. i wish i liked you more. >> i can't stay. >> where is your father. >> you leave now, you will regret it. >> you are signed up with-- i am going to impail your

client on a first degree murder charge and you get a front row seat. >> my father is a lot of unpleasant things, a murderer is not one of them. >> i have memories of us, and i don't. why? >> was i tough on you? >> yes. >> i did what i thought was right. >> my experience, hank, sometimes you have to forgive in order to be forgiven. you and i are finally done. >> we're to the done. >> joining me the director david dobkin and the film's two stars robert downey, jr. and robert duvall. i'm pleased to have all of them here. tell me how this film began. is it inspired by personal things? >> my father was very powerful attorney, and i was the kid that got in trouble a lot. so there's that aspect. but my mother got ill in 2005. and we had had a very

tempest just relationship. >> tumultuous is better. >> negative. >> negative. and i-- you know, being in the position of having to parent a parent was something i was really unprepared for. and kind of shocked me, took me by surprise. an in 2007 after she passed away, the week after that, i started to sketch out a story about a family who was dysfunctional and kind of broken. and the mother passes away and the men in the family are left behind to fill in that vacuum. and what happens after that. >> and the father is here and a stlaning son is here. >> these are them now. >> tell me about hank. >> hank is a guy who has no conscious understanding of the crisis he's in, even before his mom dies. he imagines that all of this worldly success is somehow distanced him from this

strained relationship with his dad. lots of misunderstanding. and he doesn't want to deal it, and es going to go home for a day or two and get back to his miserable life. >> yes. >> and why is the father anson not happy? >> why are they estranged? >> i know of no family in the world in any continent, in any city where families are not complex. >> and dysfunctional. >> maybe you do. i don't know -- >> but in this specific case, i mean he's a very successful son, you're a judge an you're in the small town where you grew up, where you mean something, your morality and your prestige means something. he's in chicago. he's a famous lawyer. represents and gets off a lot of bad guys. he said they pay better than the innocence. >> so-- it is a very complex relationship. it goes way back. >> yeah. >> we like that. david always said that it's

kind of like a western, you know. where -- >> it's really more about family than it is about the drama of the trial. >> yeah. it's a family drama it just takes place in a courtroom on a specific arena of the law. the two very different points of view. one man that's about honor and another man that is about success. >> when you were writing this, did you think about these two, were they in mind? >> yeah, very much so i 4 met robert a year before i started to write the story and i thought it would be exciting to see him in a role playing kind of a normal guy. and just stripped down and seeing the drama. he's one of my favorite actors. and bobby, i grew up with his movies an i have always loved his work. and they were very brave roles. i mean these roles are very courageous, they play the edge on these characters. and i needed two actors that would not flinch or compromise. >> does this attract you, doing something that is not like the avengers, it's not

like ironman. >> sure. >> not like sherlock homes. >> i took off his ironman suit, he came on and did this, which is great. >> to be many things. >> thanks. i think it's funny that i haven't been on the charlie rose show for over five years. so. >> i have. >> yes, you have. >> i think it interesting, that bobby has had the career, it demonstrates you can be in movies that are commercial and successful and still maintain a certain cred regardless. and you've been able to do that for as long as i can remember. >> the biggest movie i have been in since apocalypse now and that is 35 years ago so -- >> i would argue, you know, days of thunder, you worked with cruise a bunch, you have done big movies. you have done plenty of movies that have gotten a lot of attention. >> thank you for that vote of confidence. >> rose: the point is having done all those films, does it work different muscles, is it a different kind of-- or in the end, is acting acting?

>> acting is acting but i have to say that there was something so satisfy being this process with david, and getting as close as i have with you, the way we had to. because you're cohabit ace-- cohabitating in those volatile situation, then we're having lunch and dinner and talking smack. >> it's a shift. >> this is the first production of team downy, isn't it? >> yes. >> which is. >> susan downy, my better half, has long been a producer and a respected one. david was on her radar and likewise they had worked together on a project before, so warner brothers, you know what happens, actors get production deals and then they blow millions of dollars of some poor unsuspecting studio and they never really do anything. >> did you do that, blow millions? >> no, actually-- we didn't take too long. but then you know, there's plan b and these other companies that actually wind up making it worth the studio's while. and that's our intention. >> was's the hardest thing in terms of this venture for you?

what was the most difficult part of it. >> because you had some reluctance during another courtroom drama unless it had something extra to it. >> it's funny. i think bobby and i both initially, you kind of go, so sometimes i know i'm going it to do something if i have a strong adverse reaction to it. but some sort of resistance. i don't want to say fear, but it's-- if i'm going to go there and really bear my soul, can i trust the environment i'm going to be in. can i trust that guy to have my back. and that's a very, a very tenuous kind of sensitive thing to consider. >> take a look at this. we start with this clip. here it is. >> is that your new truck out front? >> which one? >> yeah. >> yeah, it's not an affirmation a man uses in court. >> yes, sir, judge, your honor. >> would you give those to mr. william's ex-wife then escort mr. williams to his ex-truck.

you are going to sign that vehicle over to her. and you, ma'am, are going to go down to duffanny motors and ask for mike duffanny, the father, not the knit wit son, and sell the new truck back to him for whatever they put down on it. >> this isn't fair -- >> one more word, go on. look around you. are you standing in one of the last great cathedrals in this country, built on the premise that you and you alone are responsible for the consequences of your actions. >> we didn't see the two of them together except that one cuttaway. >> the idea of creating chemistry, you have no idea it can happen like happened between the two of them. you don't know walking in if it will be there. can you create it, can you do things to make it happen? >> you can. we took a three-week rehearsal process at the beginning of this. it was very kind of unusual, these days. and we get to know each other. and we hope that chemistry builds.

but when you are casting in your head, you are hoping you see what that dynamic is. and what shows up is something all together its own special unique thing. some movies, it lights up and the christmas tree lights up and some don't. and frankly, this one did. and i feel fortunate that it did. >> did it light up for you soon? >> yeah, i think, if you go in and once again, if you just start talking and listening, and that, nothing more than that, and see where that goes, if you do that purely, then will be rewarded around the corner for something better and higher. if you do that on a basic level, you know, it's very easy to do that. >> you pone getting a sense of who he is as a human being, as people, as actors, as people, to the out here, you get it here. >> so then you know, you just go from there. and if there's chemistry t will build. you know, if it's pure in the simplest form, then i think-- did you feel it

early? >> well, again, by the time david had bobby and vince and i and jeremy strong who plays dale, just a great exciting new young actor, together, basically by the end of the rehearsals, bobby was running the rehearsals-- i don't want to say running. we were in improvisation, david had set it up so he had do-to-do very little, just kind of look and watching. and by the time the improv was over he basically cancelled rehearses because we had hit this critical mass. we were starting to act like a family. >> this 90 minute deal, 90 minute improvisation, us, bob and ashley-- actually characters, as us, and let it, see where it went, you know. kind of a bonding process. >> rose: you get some of the actors together in the breakfast scene after the mother's death.

>> hey, hank, do you want some breakfast? hey, hank, going to breakfast in the diner. >> when. >> right now. we're a family member. we're prepared to offer that. >> any of that, sound reasonable. >> oh i forgot, today's but. coffee? so-- we'll see you there, hank. >> i'll be right along. >> tell me about the scene in the bathroom. >> the scene in the bathroom. everybody asking about that. >> why do you think they do? >> well, because it's pretty graphic, pretty negative and sometimes people don't like to see those things. but you have to show them sometimes. i was a little hesitant to take it at first because you know, stepping on your own crap is not a thing that is so enticing as an actor. >> incontinence as an old

man. >> yeah. and once you decide to do it or commit, then you have to just do it, all out, without intellectualizing, just do it. >> i'm sorry, but just in watching these clips. i look at, it's a dumb thing to say but i look when the camera goes close on you, the whole story is told. i don't know how you developed that sort of skill, and then the bigger idea is what sort of risks are you willing to take, are you a natural film actor, and the other is are you brave enough to do something that if it doesn't go well, you can it can be ridiculed for doing something indulgent and graphic and dramatic, you know but like bobby said, that starts with incontinent and ends with a national hockey league joke. we had great writers, we talked about it a lot. and by the end, it's the heart of the movie. >> it is the heart-- it is a transition moment. >> i don't know. i mean he's, you can't hold

to your side of the argument when you're so clearly in need of assistance. and then hank is-- and the way david set it up that way, and the way you were playing t i was just kind of shocked because i was like, all right, this feels really well and-- real and it's not even lunchtime yet. and my god, so i was taken aback. but then it's the first time they laughed together in 25 years. and that's kind of the beginning of their healing process in a way, right humor in a situation like that, you have to find the vulnerability and other scenes, offsetting things, you know. and i think this is almost like a theatre piece. i think that the actors have a chance to go big, but by going big, you have to do it within the confines of your own tempment, you can't violate what your temper mment-- tempment says to do or to the do so what were your objectives when you

went to shoot the dean. >> there was an persons, that scene was probably the inciting incident of the movie. and i just knew that the idea of having to get emotionally and physically close with someone who you had a volatile relationship with was an incredibly-- it was an incredibly short circuit and people just drop everything and get real? >> and i just wanted it to be authentic and have integrity and not feel like it was a movie. and i directed it to be shot in an hour and a half which is what we did. we did, you know, three very quick, three camera settups and it just happened. and they were really brilliant and so naturallistic. kill a mocking bird was 40 years ago, maybe more. >> there is. >> i know.

that's the one i forget what you call it, cultural references, we just decided so it was in there naturally, and i'm sure bill deduke slipped it in there. >> nick as well. but bill really was the one who crafted a lot of the dialogue as we wound up seeing it in the movie. so smartly written. >> the line is everyone wants an-- until there is a dead hook never the hot tub and then you want some mean sob. >> you want somebody like hank. >> you want someone who is going to win, if they are a snake, so be it for you today, with all that is the cover story, "vanity fair", nice pete, profile of you, of where you are. in terms of the evolution, did you come out of incarceration as a different

acker. >> i wonder-- i suppose not. the dumb way of putting it is it is kind of like being stuck on the runway except it doesn't take a couple hours, you're just there for days and day and days and you still are heading towards the destination of where you were going so. but i know that in the larger sense, every experience i've had has shaped the kind of artist i have become and sometimes the lousier, you know, the events you overcome or you outlive or they're in the rearview mirror instead of in the midst of them, that becomes a little part of, reference, i know bobby doesn't like talking about the stuff, you know, because there is a lot of different methods on set. but it really comes down to, you know, the experience you've had and how you can bring that forth into your work, so i guess i would have to say yes. >> there is some bit of great santini came out of your own personal relationship with your father, or to the. >> in this movie.

>> no, in the great santini. >> not some of. my father was very quiet but he was an admiral, wasn't he? he went to the naval academy when he was 16, they let him in, way back. >> before world war ii. >> there is another thing you talk about in this piece which i found interesting. you got on the scooter in kansas where your dad was directing a movie and you say thises with a transform difficult moment and i didn't quite understand why. >> okay. there was a gal named stacey, hi, stacey. i'm sure she is still gorgeous. she was, is beautiful. >> she jumped on the back of the scooter. >> i was on a little honda express in the middle of kansas, dad is making this movie, of the academy, ralph maccio all these people with huge careers, i gave her a ride from a to b and she pushed that big rack into my back and i felt like a rock star. i felt like steve mcqueen, as long as i didn't dump the bike, i was a stud. >> there is a great scene in a book, called the long and

happy life by reynold price and there is an opening scene just like that. and reynold price was a southerner, great writer, some thought he might be another-- but that's the opening scene. on the back of a motorcycle you're directing now? >> a movie. are you happy with it? >> pretty much, yes. >> but you know, we're here to talk about movie but it was very fulfilling, wild horses, and it had james franco who rides a horse -- >> can vault and everything. the guy, we call him all state and everything. the only other person i give that to is jimmy kuan. >> really? >> he also-- it was a great experience but you know -- >> you were developing it while we were shooting. and even while we were shooting, i think i got the

money and i was like when this movie comes out i think will you have the money to do whatever you want. he goes no, no, i want to do it before my god, we had to recuperate from doing this movie. bobby took a couple months down and directed the movie. >> the same movie or another dns we yes, want kate to see it does it gave you the same satisfaction as acting? >>. >> i think it's a continuation of acting. i think they're linked. so i try to direct the few times i've done it, as an extension of myself as an actor. >> behavior, behavior. >> where do you put the apostle in terms of satisfaction. >> i felt satisfied, you know, because i got a wonderful letter from brando on the wall, brando enjoyed it and billy graham enjoyed it so the secular and the religious meet. >> there you go. >> you can't do better than that, you can. >> yeah. >> dow like to direct? i will did it in the future. right now i'm just, i'm

seeing folks who have the energy, regardless of years to do both. and then you know, susan has given me this great i had case-- education in producing, and after doing this, with david, he's encouraging me to do it, but you know, i want to talk by a movie i haven't directed yet. >> if something in a cast like this, what were you looking for, the best actors you could find or a certain chemistry in terms of fitting. >> i put the pictures it of them on the wall. >> i put them up and you slowly build the cast an there is something in the chemistry and the visualization of the characters, but i'm always looking for who somebody is i don't cast people to try to become characters, for who they are and to reveal those aspects of who they are on screen, i'm looking

for behavior and for, you know, facets of -- >> what were you looking for in your prosecutor? >> fear and billy bob, billy bob who is by the way, a lovely sweet, gentle man, can be an incredibly powerful performer. and i wanted someone that i felt could be toe-to-toe with robert but in a very quiet and still an unsettling way. >> i remind the audiences watching this, we are talking about a trial that is taking place in which it is a hit and run. and son trying to help his father in a bad place. here's part of the dialogue between the two of them. >> stop the car. >> come on. >> stop the god daim car. >> i need my walk. >> leaving the scene, blood evidence, motive biggest mistake of your career and you just happen to run him over. >> i could convict you-- routine is important. close the door. >> if the blood matches, and

i have no reason to doubt it does, then i must have clipped him. i don't remember any of that. >> i don't remember what happened defense doesn't fly with a corps. we need to establish a firm defense. we got to get the charges dropped and make it all go away at the preliminary hearing. never go to trial. >> there's no we here, henry. this was an accident period. any decent lawyer can argument this easily. by decent, i mean honest. someone from here, someone with integrity that an indiana judge will respect. >> i wish i liked you more. >> its impact, i mean what is interesting to all the characters in the back stories in terms of maybe there's a child that you as hank may have left behind, at the end of the film,

where do we find hank? >> where is he going to be five years from now? >> well, we-- we wanted to leave that a little bit open for interpretation because so few films do to you adays. but my-- i think that he went there trying to get out of dodge as quickly as possible. and by getting pulled in, it kind of equaled his salvation. and there is this idea at the end that that seat is not only open for him but is calling to him. the technicallities of the chicago lawyer becoming an indiana munici call court justices are many. but i think more than that it's just kind of closes the chapter on the legacy is passed in a way that has honor. >> what you need -- >> the interesting thing about your life too is-- beyond the remarkable moments and inflection points and transition is

friendship. i read an account of what you said about mel, who had been there for you, to put you in a film at a time that you needed to be in a film. >> absolutely, mel gibson saved my ass. >> rose: and you stood up. >> who. >> pell gibson. >> yeah,. >> who has got ten in trouble for things he said. and you stood up at a moment and said we need to give this guy some understanding and a break. he made a mistake. he knows he made a big mistake. i thought that said being about you-- something about you. >> you know, loyalty is important. i also, i just believe t i also know that sometimes it just takes a little bit more time. but things shift and things change. but you know, actually i think our industry can be very, very forgiving. and then i think that you just need people to rally around you. and that's what i certainly

had. >> did you know you were going to say it going up to the podium or was it -- >> i knew that because it was a night where they were paying some attention to me -- >> i was there, the cinema tech awards. he was the recipient of the entire night of the award. and he turned his speech into a-- into a moment of saying hey, you know, this guy behind me, it's time for you dies to drop it and move on. and it was -- >> he was magnanimous and amazing. >> what if you hadn't worked with him, would you still have said it? >> because i knew him and because we had shared time together, even if we didn't have a professional career, just knowing him as a man. but i just know there was this time when we were just kind of-- we were leapfrogging over each other from one faux pass to the next. and we run into me and i had just gotten arrested. and he goes i'm sorry, man, i thought it was funny what are you, goldi locks, are you okay. what can i do to help you. and so when things shifted, by the way, you know, because it can change like that for anybody.

i also think that when you're dealing with alcoholism, you know, if everybody was judged-- if every drunk was judged by what he did and said on the worst drunk of his life, when he was in the worst place he had ever been, and that became a headline by which you were holding up a feather and seeing if someone's heart weighed more than it, oh my god. alcoholics used to be the pariahs of society. and now we understand that it is a brain disease. it's an issue. >> . >> rose: there is dna. >> look, i don't know much, i just, you know, i try to keep up on this stuff. but you know, just to put a thing on it regarding mel, what he is first and foremost is he is a national treasure of ours. and sometimes people are difficult and complicated. >> he-- it starting to change.

>> he probably had something to do with it. because you are ware you are to now this is robert downey, highest paid acker in the world, how troubled path lead to the greatest third act in hollywood history. >> i love it. >> do you see your life that way, this sort of, this is quite amazing i'm going through these-- it's like a three act play, the third act now there may be four or five acts, you know? honestly, i see it as this odd thingment because everybody's life there is the story of their lives and it's true but it's an interesting cover for a magazine i like to read. and sometimes i got to be that guy on the cover, you never really read something that sums up the arc of your life in a sentence that sells that, oh, is that all i am? if you had a more troubled past, just imagine. >> you know what i mean? >> you never really got in trouble. >> well-- you got out of it easier than others.

why do you think that is true though. i mean you-- i mean why do some-- why did you get in and other guys didn't in hollywood. i know guys that, wow, i won't go into it. >> yeah. >> you know, it's an important question, i think. >> and perhaps helpful to people if they understand where you were. >> guys did much worse things than you did. >> i guess the thing is ultimately it's that rungs on the ladder going up, rungs coming down with exceptions to both. but because, i think i have always had a pretty good work ethic. and i also, i believe that, an lord at enborrow told me this. >> he passed away recently, he said when you fine your ambition, all this stuff will chrirp. it's never that simple. >> rose: when you find your ambition. >> yeah my ambition, so when you stop thinking of

yourself as someone on the outside and start really think seeing what is possible for me, how could i put these together and maybe get a shot at the title, that's when he thought all this other stuff would clear away. and it wound up being something apropos not just for me but for, you know, for a lot of other people that he had worked with. >> and do you think new that you are getting a shot at the title or you have already won the tight snell. >> i feel like casius clay, you know, standing over the vanquished, over sony liston. >> the before he changed his name. >> that's right. >> he changed it right after he won. next morning, he said i'm muhammed ali with. all right, then i'm muhammed ali. no, i'm to the going to make that comparison. what i will say is naturally when have a big win there is a time of gloingt. gloating but there is that immense sense of accomplishment, you know, but that's just another kind of false thing. like bobby always says, it

is just the next moment. what is the next what is the next right thing to do. and i think that that is what helped me transtition, people tend to crash when really lousy things happen and when really great things happen, you know. >> you also found love. >> yeah, these's right. momma downy. >> that's a great story. she was not in -- what chichi, an executive vice president of the firm, wasn't she? >> no, she-- what she was was she was joe silver and the producers, a producer from a heart-- in montreal and you fell in love. >> yeah. but it was only when you went back to l.a.. >> who pursued whom? >> yeah, i was chasing her down pretty hard. she is, still is a very practical, she's a nice jewish girl from the midwest. she didn't want to get tang telled up with me. >> butts's worked. >> oh, sure.

he was a shuj part of i think the whole process. wasn't she? >> absolutely. let's go out with this last scene, where the two of them argue about who is more responsible for their relationship this is our closing scene, here it is. as punishment for going-- with m 80. >> i was 13, that you remember. >> old enough to know better. >> you come to my high school graduation, nor college. >> why? jail time, truancy, i was never -- >> i graduated from law school, for christ sake. >> as opposed to what, dropping out. let me tell you something, okay. here. put a roof over your head. money in your pocket, clothes on your back. food in your mouth. who paid for that college education, your mother? >> you say that's one of your favorite scenes. >> yeah, i think that's probably my favorite scene

in the movie? >> because? >> because we had to see bobby as, he's a dad but now a lawyer, hank is trying to put him on trial for the past this has nothing do with the murder. it's about what you did to me and he cross-examines him and you win that case and you say you're right and in the middle of he's coop rattive enough and i know that you have a ton of dialogue to throw me a little something and give me that-- rap on my hand. >> rose: much success to all of you, really. >> thank you, charlie. >> rose: congratulations on the fill am. great to you have. back in a minute. stay with us. >> rose: lisa dwan is here, an actor performing three short one-woman plays written by samuel beckett, not i, foot falls and rocca bye are all late works written by the great irish playwright, ben brantly has written, lisa began doesn't just uncover layers, she digs all the way to the void between them. yes, she speaks beckett text

like a violin vertioso playing paganini but also listens an insist that we listen to the quiet that surrounds them. a silence so profound that it feels like eternity. the they are playing at the brooklyn academy of music through october 12th. i'm pleased to have lisa dwan at this table. welcome. >> thank you, it's a pleasure to be here. >> rose: it's my pleasure and beckett's pleasure to have you there doing what you are doing. how did this come about? >> first your own life circle in terms of you, being introduced to beckett. >> sure. i started off as the ballot dancer, went to england on a ballot scholarship, danced with the london ballot scholarship and knee injuries lead me to fall into acting. and i did countless tv series in ireland, american tv shears and then i wa was-- series and then i was acting in this one series with an ago we are who was

part of the gate project where they were committing all of beckett's plays to film. and that was my landscape when i came to theatre. and i was just absolutely taken. >> do you know what it was. >> yeah, i think beckett doesn't preach. we talk about -- >>. >> they were very good friends. you know, he's not standing over with you his hand over his heart. he's not trying to sell you anything. he's to the being sentimental. and thus there is a lot of space to come to. and the viewer, you are invited to bring your own landscape. and as an actor, i mean it's just so vast. these characters are more like creatures, they're a slice of life. and that's a very exciting -- >> and the first opportunity you had was -- >> i a couple of years later i was sent a script of not

i. which was written like music. and i had heard about not i, i had heard there is this play where there is a disembodied mouth 8 foot above the stage and entirely blackened out auditorium that appears to oscillate or move across the auditorium because of the sen ory-- and so each member of the audience has a completely unique experience in that darkness where they see this mouth. and beckett wanted this text to be spoken at the speed of thought to play on the nefbs of the audience and not the intellect. and when i got the script, it is written like music. you've got these three -- dots interrupting this beautiful poetry so it's hard to speak it so fast because you do want to kind of stop and enjoy this beautiful imagery, the language, the humor, but i didn't hear just one stream of consciousness, i heard a kind of cacophony.

i heard the-- i heard the streets of ireland, i heard home and then i was cast. >> roll tape. >> out, tiny-- before its time, and what? girl, yes, tiny little girl, in this thousands of this before her time got to be taken home cold, cold, no matter, parents unknown, unheard of. -- bananas-- she similarly 8 months later, spaured that. in a home, no, not any of any kind t no love of any kind, nothing of any notes coming up, what, coming up to 70, wandering in a field looking to make a-- staring drifting, suddenly grabs, oh that early morning light and she found herself in the what, pool, no, sea. found herself in the dark, and not exactly incent yent where she could still hear

the buzzing in the ears and a ray of light came and went, came and went, just the moonlight drifting in and out of clouds, feeling so dulled. she did not know what position she was in, imagine, what position she was in, whether standing or sitting, with the sound sitting or neiling, lying sitting, kneeling, so long after a sudden flash, to believe with the weight, god,. >> quite the mouthful. >> yes, indeed. >> you know what i was listening to, to listen to your breathing. >> how do you make the decision about breath in that. >> i have no time to think about when i'm going to breathe. so i think i circular breathe, or just take little gasps whenever i can. but i think if i was to start thinking about breathing on top of everything else, i would hyperventilate and have a panic attack. >> the decision to bring these three to new york,

your decision in or some producers decision? >> yeah, i always had it, you know, not i was first performed in new york n 1972, by jessica tandy. >> the great jessica tandy. >> yeah. and beckett went backstage because she did it in 22, 23 minutes and said you have destroyed my play. and then he wrote alan schneider and said i'm going to direct and find out if it's theatre or not. and he kept saying to billy you can't go fast enough. i want this at the speed of thought. and she got the piece down to maybe 14 minutes. but she had several breakdowns trying to learn it. >> i'm only able to do it because billy did, by performing it she broke a big psychological barrier, almost like roger banister. the four minute mile, you know. and so i'm very grateful to her. billy became my mentor. >> is it a physical thing as well? >> well, in order to stay in

this pin prick of light, that just lights my lips, it's necessary for my whole body to be fastened into a head harness so i've got black makeup from here to my chest, and a blin blindfold and hair tight over my head and i'm put into a hole in a piece of wood that only takes a third of my face and my head is strapped in two places. and my arms are put into brackets and i'm just pressed against this piece of wood and then i obviously go like the clapper. >> talk about these three plays, i think it was charles spencer said they are a, located in very brink of death, that undiscovered country. after beckett's characters often yearn for. >> tell me about that. >> well, it's one of the wonderful things about beck set this kind of universal landscape looking at foot falls was a big challenge. i think in many respects,

not i as a representation of thought. and boundariness. i think that's why it provokes so many panic attacks in the audience. and i think it speaks to people's core. >> do these three compare to waiting for godot? >> well this is late beckett. >> and what i find interesting about late beck set that he's really starting to shake off joyce's influence. that verbosity, that jocular kind of playfulness which is funny. i'm less attracted to it new as i have really looked at what i think is pure beckett where he distilled and distilled and peared away all the fat until you are left with something really potent. and not i, it's so lean and tight it really gets people in the jugular, with foot falls, among other things, it's like a chamber piece of

music and beckett really writes like music and there are so many elements. but broadly speaking, an exploration of oppression, it is usually played by two actresss. i play both rolls. mother off stage and may, pacing outside her mother's dying room. and i suppose we all carry these kind of traumas in our heads, don't we. and often we are our own oppressers. and it's been quite interesting to play both roles. in that balance. here is sir trevor nunn talking abouted genius effect. >> beckett is absolutely unique, isn't he. i mean i have read a short story by beckett and he didn't really do short story, it's proceeds poem. and in the english language the great tradition is verse

drama, heightened language, the use of language as a rich ingredient. and beckett does exactly that in his own very special way. even-- even though sometimes the plays are very short, even though the expression is very limited, the selection of language, the rhythm of language, the resonance of the language is absolutely extraordinary. and that, the echo in harold pinter, the use of silence. >> and then just the one

phrase -- >> i heard lecturing about beckett, somebody in the audience was complaining that beckett can seem to be so pessimistic. and this lecturer said i think in beckett, there is a pessimism that makes optimism look like sentimentality. i thought that was devastating. and i think that's that's the illumination we get from him. >> exactly what you were saying earlier. >> uh-huh. >> he really relies on the mentallities and image of gangsters, emotion of going sters. and that's what makes the work so persuasive. yes, it's hard and break and all that, but you know, i suppose with without sounding too pretentious, it's the closest thing that

i have ever felt. and i think when i-- it works for that reason. >> of these three dow like one more than the other? >> i think i'm beginning to understand foot falls and you know, a lot of people say that it's probably the most difficult of all of beckett's work. but i think i'm really starting to understand it. in a deep and personal way. and in order to do that, i have to bring in my own mask. >> the character pacing outside the room. >> uh-huh. in fact, beckett's mother is everywhere. >> it was fraught. she considered him mall adjusted. and that was a real wound. and he said to walter towards the end of his life

life,-- maybe i should have, maybe i should have been an-- he wasn't, you know being glib. he felt he failed his mother. >> so maybe i should have been an accountant because i'm not with my what my mother wanted me to be as a writer. >> and it was hard for him, the genius, he couldn't tow the line, you know. and he left a decent position in trinity college. >> he took the difficult route. and he was a very courageous writer, you know. his work rejected. it was interesting it reading his letters which about to be published, his rejection letters, i suppose it gives us all hope to think-- . >> rose: i always love when they publish letters to see the mind at work and to see a beckett letters interest interesting-- that interesting. >> they are. he is keeps talking about the unnameable and i'm working on this text, the

unnameable and he must write the same thing about 20 -- >> the third one is rocca bye, billy whitelaw said a drive towards death. and if really is a drive. when i was rehearsing rocca bye with walter, he wouldn't let me get past the first six lines. he kept pulling me back and i was to punch him by the end of the week. and then one day he just let me go. and i felt like a glider. you know, we spoke about the music of beckett's work, i really felt like i caught this rhythm that just took me despite myself towards the end of the piece. and i really felt like i needed that rhythm. and to help me face one of the greatest, deepest, most painful truths of all s that we are our owner living-- a

difficult thing to say. >> straining to do all this. as deep as they are, each night? is it cathartic. >> it's definitely cathartic, and although i don't want to be too indulgent with that. >> i'm highly disciplined about that. it is a privilege, you know, i play a country, a play a continent. you know, i travel vast differences in ages or time and scope. whatter writer is going to ask that much of me. so it's a privilege to be asked other than, and to be able to offer it. >> and you hope the audience takes away what? >> i don't know. i don't have any kind of great ambitions for this. but i am amazed 25 years after his death that it is at the west end, first time performed in new york, selling out, and it's with a

young audience. and the fact that people seem to be-- seem to be ready for beckett today. i don't know why there's such a renewed appetite, but there is a real kind of urgency, in terms of his, i don't know, ongoing appreciate you had this amazing opportunity to meet beckett's muse, billy whitelaw. tell me about the relationship well, i first had to come to terms with the role myself so i performed it in 2005 without meeting her or seeing her before, thank god, otherwise i would have tried to emulate her performances, thus breaking beckett's rule don't act. i had to find my own and after i first performed it edward beckett the keeper of the estate came along and said i think you can meet her now that you found your way. and we greeted each other like long lost war veterans. she had never played or met anyone who had played the role and neither had i.

and about a year after that meeting, she rang me up out of the blue and she said you can come around please. i want to give you his notes. i need to give you his notes. >> rose: i need to give them. >> and i fully expected her to take out an old rehearsal manuscript with his, you know, writing on it and she sat me down if he kitchen table and she said begin. so i started the text. and she started conducting me. just as beckett had with her, across her kitchen table. and she really set me free with the piece. i think hi been trying very diligently to add here to his notes, don't act. and i was putting a sort of artificial monotone on his lean lines and she blew all that out of the water. she said what are you doing, he wants it all. he doesn't want an actors'

craft, he wants the real stuff. >> he wants you and then next the whole piece started to sing. >> great to you have here. >> brilliant to be here. >> rose: thank you so much. >> thank you. on the next charlie rose walter isaacson, his new book is called the innovaters, how a group of hackers, geniuses and geeks created the digital revolution. >> let's not talk about invasion in the abstract. let me show you exactly what dill gates did, what steve jobs did, what the people who invented the transistor at bell labs did and how that bell labs system lead to something. so i wanted to look in a story telling, this is a book, a narrative book. story telling is not 12 easy lessons of innovation, because i wanted to do some real reporting and say how did they make that creatively and how did they do it as a team. but who was the visionary that helped make the leap. because you need a visionary and a team. so it's more of a book about

real people who actually do it is, and i'm trying to rescue the word invasion-- i mean invasion is such a buzzword that people always think they're going to do a web site explaining innovation to you. i just want to say let me report it let me show you what happened all the way through google and wikipedia, and the things we have today. >> who are some of the interesting people i meet here? >> the people you would not-- well, you would know, because you know all of history. but the people most people wouldn't know who are hugely important, jcr licklighter. i didn't know much about him. an awe schuks guy, an engineer at m.i.t. but also does psychology. he helps create an air defense system for the united states because they need a psychologist to work with the engineers. and he needs it to be interactive screen tas are instant, total quick interactivity and very easy to read screens so you know what the blip is doing. because if a console jocky doesn't have that, we might get attacked by a missile am secondly he's got a network 23 different air defense

system stations together. so he creates a concept of what he calls the intergalactic computer network. >> rose: for more about this program and earlier episodes visit us on-line at pbs.org and charlie rose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

>> funding for charl yee rose has been provided by the coca-cola company, supporting this program since 20012. american express, additional funding provided by: and by bloomburg, a provider of mults media news an information services worldwide. >> you're watching pbs.

every single bite needed to be tasted. >> wow. >> it's like a great big hug. >> my parents put chili powder in my baby food. >> everywhere all over the table. >> my stomach is g