>> rose: welcome to the program, tonight michael key ton the actor starring in "birdman". >> i fojd the character pathetic but at the same time really noble and courageous, actually. but it's-- it's a lot of things. it's about how you see yourself or how you're going to-- what it all means to not just be an artist but what you are willing to lay on the line in life. and not lay on the line in life. and are you being-- ultimately are you being your true self. >> rose: michael keaton for the hour when we continue. >> funding for charlie rose is provided by the following: >> rose: additional funding provided by:

>> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. stars in the movie "birdman", he plays a washed up actor trying to make a comeback on broadway. keaton rose to fame, big fame in 1989 with tim burton's batman. but until to you he has been mostly out of the spotlight. los angeles times writes of his performance, it is so intensely truthful, so ear ily in the moment that it is hard to imagine keaton will ever be better. i spoke with him recently in los angeles at his home. where were you in your life when the idea of "birdman" came to you or you

went to it? >> i was working on a film in canada. and i got-- i received a call from my agent. and they said all hando inarritu has a script that he wants to talk to you, that he wants to discuss with you. and already i was interested. and she said i don't know how are you going to do this she didn't say don't come. she said how are we going to figure this out. he can't fly there, or something. but he wants to talk to you here. and i thought well, it's probably not going to work. and then i thought about it for the night. and i called her back, i will make this, without. i flew back to a restaurant right up the street because all hando lives over there, right over there. and we met-- that's how it came so then we met and discussed it. and he asked me how i worked. and i asked him how he worked. and as i tell people, the script would have to have been horrible, like

unreadable for me to say no because i think any actor will tell you, and and i said you know, he called me to say some really nice things. i said yeah, we were both talking about how good all hando-- alejandro is. i said all you have to do is see a couple of his movies. in fact, all you have to look at is-- and i probably would have signed on. he says all i had to see was the crash, the automobile accident scene. and i would have signed on. he is one of those people, you know, he is extraordinary, an

extraordinary filmmaker. and has become a friend. and you have interviewed him. >> rose: oh yeah. >> he's something, isn't he. >> rose: oh, yeah. >> your father was a drink s that true? is that true? >> no, no. because my father was. my father is a mean-- drunk. you understand? >> okay he beat the-- out of me. i was okay. -- >> he said i'm taking off my belt or dow want me to take it off and use it. i said well, i made myself-- you know, but. >> okay, okay, okay, hey, hey, hey. oh, god i didn't know. i'm sorry. i'm sorry, that is-- that's horrible. i'm sorry. >> i can pretend too, you know.

>> i'm telling you you have no idea. come on, let's go. come on. >> yeah? >> yeah. >> why don't you get your wings and your bird sue,man. >> everybody talks about you and whether you were working a lot or not working. >> uh-huh. >> were you working a lot at the time that this came on your plate or were you sort of saying maybe it's time i start working? >> no, i made that decision over a year before that. i kind of, i kind of started dialing in the scope a little clearer. and on the rifle. and i had already done the-- the truth is i was always doing something. because i always feel-- i felt like you have to stay in the gym to some degree, you know. and how i did it was sometimes not on the sly but i would go do something that

maybe i didn't care if it just kind of went away, just to explore a character or sometimes i would do it once i took it because the job was so right down the street. the money was good. i admit, guilty as charged. that is not the smartest thing to do i've learned. but i did it so i was always doing that. but i certainly dialed it up by doing hbo project with larry david. robo cop. there was something else in there i keep forgetting and all pretty good stuff. and then 24 came along. so it was never like-- there was like an absence of me, i suppose. in is that i was pretty board with what i was-- the words coming out of my mouth. not necessarily i wasn't crazy about the things i was getting. but it was more me than it, you know. >> rose: you were tired of yourself. >> yeah, kind of over myself for a while. >> rose: so you went to montana. >> i lived in montana on and off. i mean part of the year

for-- my kid is 31, so you know, almost 27 years now, something like that. >> just hanging out? >> well-- a lot of fishing you and brokaw fishing. >> we fish a lot. >> and then do television and talk about it. >> yes. >> how about is that job. >> yeah, and being, you know, i always wanted to be-- i always knew as a kid i needed to live, i had to be outdoors. i don't know how to not be outdoors. and i had to either have a farm or some space or my dream since i had been a little guy but i was obsessed with the west and but you know, it was a place where i have a great community of friends there. probably more there now than probably anywhere. a)1q!e beginning the ranch operated in a ranch, you know, it was an operation, a little bit of cattle, a little bit of hey. and then i don't pretend to act like it's really more of

a-- it's more of a recreational and big amount of space where i just feel at home. >> rose: because the perception was, even the president of the united states. >> yes. >> he said hey, why don't you make more movies? >> first words out of his mouth. which was a little disconcerting. >> because you had been making movies. >> not to me. i'm thinking that is an interesting question, coming from you. but you who were trying to the leader of the free world, why are you worried about that. >> rose: but it does show a perception that you weren't making a lot of movies. >> yeah, to some degree, well, i wasn't making a lot of movies. the truth is a never really made a lot of movies. for as long as i have been doing this, i don't think i have that many. you know, i have probably popped in here and there on little things. but not that many. i could have certainly done a lot more. >> when you met with alejandro did you say to him s this my life? >> you know, he-- and i really try to remember this.

i guess, he if he said we did then i don't think we made it up-- he made it up. i didn't say that but i probably said okay, on es-- obviously there is obviously this thing. do we-- how do we not make that the issue which was never his intention. because as you know, surely it's about alejandro. >> rose: it's about him. >> exactly. >> i'm just the vessel. so like to that degree i probably mentioned something. because he said i did. but honestly, i don't remember a big-- i don't think we had the time to say well, you know, you played batman and you're an actor. for me i thought well, this will drag me and it down. let's just jump over that. we have got a lot of work to do, you know, because of the difficulty of making this movie. but we probably acknowledged it. in fact, i was surprised during the shooting of it that he didn't talk about it

more. that he-- i was just kind of surprised by it. but he was so-- there was so much to do. and that seemed to be-- i don't know. unless i missed something. >> let me just look back at the things that you have excelled at that pleased you. starting with nightshift. what was it about that. ron howard said later one of the great regrets of his career is he never found a place where you two could work together again. >> yeah. >> first of all, that's hard to do because you have to understand and i'm sure you do understand, as great as all this attention is, and man s it great. is it fun. i make no bones about it i'm not coy about anything. >> rose: yeah. >> let alone this. it really is always a question of what comes to you when. i mean i definitely have worked really hard i'm a hard worker and i dialed it up. and i changed a few things around and really started to lock in.

and i look the at it like a 15 rounder. and i said i know what i am going to do and i'm going to do it because by about round 12, i'm not getting-- he's to the getting off his back. >> rose: he's out for the count. >> and that was pie goal. >> so i said yeah, but you are only in the fourth round now but how do you get there. so i started to sit down thinking, working, focus. and i never stopped trying to be good at what i do. everything would come up, all that said, and taken-- the truth is you have to have the good fortune and have this-- it has to come along with the right director. you have to have a piece of material that is any good at all, not just "birdman" n anything. any actor out there has to have the opportunity you know, so a friend of mine once said a relative or someone once said about a role, that was a great role and great movie said to him,

why didn't you do that movie. and he looked at them and said, it doesn't work like that. it is not like he said i'll do that you have to be in the right place at the right time. everything has to work out. and to a large degree, that's what this is. how much of it i created and how you be believedly blessed i am and the good fortune a combination of all that. so it comes around so i'm sure ron is right. he looks at certain things and goes that's not really right for him or that could be right for him or so something like this could have come around when i was 28 or 32 or-- and maybe i would have been good in that. i would like to think that it doesn't matter. you just-- you know sometimes it you get all the wood on the ball. sometimes you get a good chunk of the wood on the ball. and sometimes you miss the ball. >> when tim came to you for beatel us. >>. >> i didn't understand what was dk -- gheit el juice. >> i didn't under than what he was talking about but i

liked him. i thought well this guy is svming i wish i could do it you seem like a really nice guy. i know are you creative but i don't know-- i don't get it. and i got a phone call that said would you talk to him again. and i liked him. so i thought yeah, sure. explain more to me what you are trying to do. and when you see t you understand why it was probably hard for him to explain. and i went home, i thought wow, i just don't-- i like this guy. i would like-- i thought no, don't do it and then i met him again at a mexican restaurant and we talked and talked and talked. and he said a couple of things that i just logged in. i said give me the night, or two days. and i called the wardrobe department and because he said something that made me think of something. and i said send me wardrobe from different time periods randomly. just pick a rack. and he said something about something else about we exist in all times and all spaces. and then i thought of an idea of a walk.

and i knew had to be-- i said i don't know. i called and said i got an idea. and i don't know if it's going to work on not so let's just go do this thing. and here is the amazing part about it. he never saw any of it. we discussed it, i said i want hair that looks like i stuck my phone in an electrical outlet. and its wardrobe, i said i want mold. he said like he was under rock. i want mold some where. and she created this amazing-- and then so then i said okay. and i showed up for work and i walked on the stage and said this is either going to be way off the mark or he's just going to-- i don't know what he is going to do. he got it meetly. and it's not like it was way out of what he was talking about. but it was-- and he said yes, that and let's do more of that and gave this

unbelievably free thing with do you know why this is a favorite movie of so many people including the president? >> no, i don't. but i saw the most-- adorable little girl the other day. i was getting coffee and i can could not take my eyes off how unbelievably cute this kid was. she was about, i found out later how old she was. because i'm going oh, man, i have spent-- if she was mine, i wouldn't have a job. i would just hang out with her all day. she was the cutest thing i ever saw. got a call, and the guy calls me over and says do you know her favorite movie. and gi know, but she sure is cute. her favorite, she is this big. her favorite movie is beetle us. >> and i thought-- beetlejuice, i said are you sure that is okay. no, she quotes the lines, so it goes from that to 80-year-old people. no, i couldn't tell you why. i think it is something where they just have never seen anything like it before which is a credit to tim original.

>> that's what he is, original. >> and then he comes to you for batman? >> yes. >> which everybody is kind of, but tim got it, because he and i got know each other. he said no, no, no this is-- and in fairness i think a couple of the guys, a couple of the executives thought maybe its with a bad idea. they were probably looking at marketability you know, because beetlejuice was very popular. and but he got it and i got it immediately. i went oh, yeah, i know what this is. >> rose: what did you say it was in your mind? >> you know, dark, however you want to-- everybody says dark, dark say relative thing. i didn't see it-- i also thought this is also funny. and i don't know that that factors into how they do it now. but i said no, no, there is i said-- and he is obviously a depressed dude, you know. he witnessed the death of

his mother and father, so let's start with that. and-- and tim was just looking and he had that long hair, i remember his hair going-- as we go-- and i said everything he said he was like yeah, yeah, but i thought so a what does that mean. he said you've got it i agree with you. and then he expounded upon it even more. and then i thought okay. well, whatever. good luck on that, warner brothers. >> and de. >> and $400 million later. >> yeah, he started everything with that. he was-- he created the whole look with anton first and everybody else. but the whole-- he just saw t you know, and went for it and. >> rose: and then batman too. >> yeah swirx fine. it was all right. i thought that is too bad, this is inherently an interesting character, operatic, really.

i know it is comic booky and pulpy, but really under it, it is not like you've never seen the dual personality thing, you know, we've seen that before. but cirano deberjerac and all that. but there was something way more. i thought a this isn't very good. and tim's not involved any more. blah, blah, blah. but also what was interesting was where he would go, where that guy could go. and the way to get him to where i thought he should go. let's go back and just retrace how he got there again. you know, which sult mately what they did, in the 17th or 18th or fourth or fifth version of it but it's inherently an interesting guy. and for me the key always was, i only said this interesting it was never about batman t was bruce wayne, you know. that was the way in, who is that guy. and who is that guy on the screen that would be as least-- at least a little ent takening as opposed to grim. >> rose: right, right. was it hard to walk away.

>> no, easy, easy. >> rose: even when they rolled up the bank well well, yeah, i'm not going to-- there was one occasion, people would ask me this and i go, because it never really changed my life. i live the same way that i-- it just went like that. there is only one thing, this hunk of real estate i wanted to buy, oh, i would like to have that. it had a good river on it. and i went-- . >> rose: and it cost money. >> and it cost a lot of money. and i thought that one hurt for about a day. >> rose: only a day. >> oh, yeah. >> rose: if i had done this i could have maybe bought this --. >> if i argue i would do any of those, there is no "birdman". >> rose: if you had done another batman there would be no "birdman"? >> uh-huh. because i also thought look, the wayne, our comic friend, he looked at me like he didn't understand the controversy. he said you can't do that again. because maybe a handful of people went you're in big

trouble if you keep going down that road. will you have to do a lot of work and remind people of everything else you do. whether they're right or wrong, i really have no idea. but i just thought why should i keep-- by the way, had it been kind of good, and as tim said, i really want to do this again. i would have probably done it. you want to be into those kind of-- alejandro, you know. you want to be in business with those kind of artists. and they bring on new directors, new story ideas and worry about whether it is going too dark and all of that. >> they could go darker and darker and darker. >> yeah, exactly, yeah. >> a wildly creative guy so when you left that, where were you in your own your own head. have you been in-- to batman. >> go do a bump of stuff i did, and some was good and some wasn't was okay. and that would have happened regardless. but there is no doubt that

you have to keep on going, you have to be in the last movie that made money. just a fact of life. i understood the risk of that. i thought one of these next roles i take is going to have to do a little bit of money. do a little bit of business. and some did okay. and some didn't. and also right around the end, the business changed. i would say not in america, not in the movie business but the world has gone strip mall. really a strip mall. a couple 6 anchor stores. if you look at them as global things, the big anchor stores are china, india, america. and everything else backs watered down. new york doesn't look like what new york used to look like. new york is what america and ultimately the world is so in the movie business, it's just part of all of that. it's corporate and by the way, whoever is complaining about or whining about it should go do something else for a living, i guess. it is the way it is. you know, you are either a

long distance runner or you ain't a long distance runner. that's why i keep doing this endurance is one thing. you have to build a lot of kind of muscles. and i don't like to luls. so i thought yeah, i'll figure out a way to do all this. >> et cetera's go. >> where are we going. >> to get you some coffee. >> did i do something to disrespect you. >> not yet. >> look, i have a lot riding on this. >> is that right? >> yeah. >> people know who i am. >> they don't know you, your work, man, they know the guy from the bird suit who goes and tells stories on letterman. >> sorry if i'm popular. >> popular? popular? popularity is just bloody little cousin of-- my friend. >> i done even know what the-- that means. >> it means my reputation is riding on this and that is worth a lot. >> exactly. if this doesn't work out for you you go back to your video, and dive back into that cultural genocide are you perpetrating.

a douchebag is born every minute, that was pd barnum's premise when he invented the circus and nothing much has changed. you know if you put out-- any piece of crap people will line up to see it but long after you are gone i will be on that stage earning my living, bearing my soul wrestling with complex mum emotion, that is what we do. >> is that what tonight, you wrestling with complex emotion. >> tonight was about being alive. this isn't a-- new york city is how we do things. >> where are you going? >> they have coffee here. >> what is interesting about "birdman" and boy you knee it after you had that dinner with alejandro, it really was, it was his story too. >> here is a guy who was wondering what is it all about. >> yeah. >> and how do i find something new. and how do i define what i want to be in a new way. >> right and what kind of

person can i con into playing and be photographed doing me. >> yeah, no, not really but it is, what i love about him, i love a lot of things about him. but he will tell you that and unabashed and not just being coy about t he is to the being ironic he said no, i was going through a lot of things and had the courage to say i'm going to put it on the screen and say these things and his intelligence is so-- he's so intelligent so, bright that it reaches a lot of-- he packs a lot into an hour and a half half or whatever it is, philosophically and idea logically and intellectually. but mostly what i love about it is all the guts and the heart and the soul and how much humanity, he's really gutsy really courageous. >> rose: what is the story

he is telling? >>. >> well, you know, as you know it is a lot. there is a lot if you could follow and go wow, because it's about an actor but it it's about-- and i know this sounds cliche but it is really about anybody, but beyond that it is about who people are, how your ego because overruling and such a liar and also how necessary it is. and how unnecessary it is and then the question, who am i as an artist. am i really an artist. do i need to be loved, an this guy's case, he's-- you know, he's-- i mean he's-- you know, i say pathetic. and i don't mean it necessarily in derog torely but literally i found the character pathetic but at the same time really noble and courageous, actually. but it's a lot of things. it's about how you see

yourself or how-- what it all means to-- not just be an artist but what are you willing to lay on the line in life and not lay on the line in life app ultimately are you being your true self to some degree as far as that, a lot of stuff. she says stuff about social media, and where we are today about fame, the to see if you can recapture that. >> she criticizes him and is accurate in saying he's irrelevant. he doesn't matter because i think there is this kind of science fictiony parallel university that has been created by you, you kind of literally don't exist any more if you are not connected through social media. people don't, they don't know how to get to you or communicate with you literally an entire generation. at the same time if you sigh this about, he's out of it because he's not connected to it but also she is guilty

of being addicted to it to some degree, you know. everybody gets it in this movie. everybody gets it. he tells it the truth about everybody, and everybody lies and everybody tells the truth and everybody bears their soul or is expoted. the yet sick exposed but she's also not wrong about what she says riggan is, you know, constantly exposed. but also he's not totally wrong. he's learn not wrong about what he is trying to do you know even if it's for himself. so everybody, i like that he-- that is why i say he's an equal opportunity offender. >> rose: was it tough because of the way alejandro films. >> yeah. >> these long seven, eight, nine minutes. >> extremely but-- . >> rose: you have the capacity to be improvisational and go off script and all that. the capacity.

>> yeah, and there is none of that. >> rose: and if you do, you let everybody down. >> everybody. and you have to be wordperfect, physically in the right spot at the right time. and you throw the luxury of multiple takes multiple angles is out. so if anyone would ever judge a director like they do some, like gymnastics or some olympic events, degree of difficulty, it is not even close. this guy crushes everybody. because the difficulty for everyone was really high, i'm working on a movie now my fear was every movie i do after this, there was so frightening and exhilarating and fun and nerve-racking and all that, i thought every movie after this i'm afraid is going to be boring. the good news is it's not. because working on a movie with really talented and quick witted fun charming people, and the movie is really good. but here's what happened. what happens is now that you

are working on a new, a traditional way of movie making, multiple takes, cuts and angles, you think back, i have was thinking about how we made "birdman" and it's kind of like if you are ever almost had a head on collision and people swerve at the time you were quick on your feet, reflexes were good. you kind of went through it and then that night it hits you how scary that was, that is what happens now. i'm on the set and i go wait a minute, what were we thinking am how did we ever think that we can make that movie the way he made that movie. i still kind of don't get it. >> rose: and it accelerates it, it adds drama and movement and energy and direction to it. >> yeah, all of it, yes. >> i don't know how you ma make t actually, i don't think the movie works quite if you shoot it traditionally

because it pulls you into the-- about a minute six or something, it's like you quietly hear a door close behind you and you go okay, you're in now. there is no going back. are you going down the road with this thing. and it is a ride. and the weird thing is it's a comedy and here is what i am glad about. if this throws any attention towards comedy in the best way, in comedy gets some credit with the accolades, i think it's great because comedy is very often doesn't get its due. >> rose: i just talk to countries rock, his whole film was about a guy without wants to be taken seriously. comedians want to be taken seriously but it's much harder to do comedy than serious. >> yeah, they say. and i suppose that's true. >> they say. >> comedians say that, at least. >> you know what is interesting about that. i told somebody the other day, inevitably, i don't

believe in that kind of-- you know, the bs, the kind of false humility, aw schuks thing or i'm to good. or i saw that movie and i'm horrible. when i see a scene and gi oh, boy, i'm that. i say i missed that one with you when i get it, i slay anything, i will say yeah, i got that scene or i got that line. i nailed that one. i'm not afraid to say that because it's authentic. it's true. also i don't like it when i see a scene i, i go oh boy, i don't know what i was thinking. >> that is who you are. you have been honest all your life. >> pretty much. >> you are not a guy who lived an illusion. >> no no no. i'm sure i have but-- but it didn't last long so what's interesting about what you say about come dee, every time i go back, and i go, you look at a scene and you go oh, man, one more shot, that one little thing. it hit me the other day, it's almost inevit-- inevitably

comedic. the other once you go that was pretty good. i will take that but if you go oh, i should have waited a teeny bit longer. you want to nail that thing. rses if you ever sit down and talk to comedy writers and people who write for stand-up, they will explain it to you. will you get it more than you ever have. >> yeah. >> rose: i made a speech and i had to get comedy writers because it had to be funny. they just know, as you say t is the quarter second t is how you hit it. it is how you hit it that makes the joke. are you a friend of david letterman. he understands that in spades. >> yeah. >> rose: has always understood that. >> i said david work the first time t was clear to not me, everybody, this guy just had wit and a midwestern kind of take on things that cut through the bull-- and was smart -- but pretty smart. and cut right to it. yeah, comedy is a whole

other-- i was working with a bunch of really good actors, john flaherty, was doing this thing-- he was like a mathmatician. he would watch and go here is what we are going to do. here say joke that would crush him every night. get a laugh every time there was one on this side and this side. and kept saying that is not working. and he said we are going to take that one out. no, no, no. that-- that gold he said no, we're taking it out. here is what is going to happen. we're going hit this one, move it closer, we'll slide it closer to together in time and that one will work and nailed it. and wrz it means it is science and craft. >> yeah. >> rose: they just know. >> yeah. >> rose: what is all the doing for you, though. and why do you think there's been the response, other than the fact brilliantly directed, great performances,

wonderful cast, all of that. but there are other movies that has that. >> i know. >> rose: this has hit some nerve this film. >> i know. i wish coy tell you. i-- i, there are people that come up to me on the street that have nothing to do or people that i know with nothing to do with entertainment business. nothing to do with movie making. what they say about it when they talk about it, what they want to say about it is articulate and-- i'm knocked out by what they say about it, and what they want to tell you about it. >> rose: so what is that. >> i think alejandro found, i think when are you as courageous as he was in making this movie that he-- that you can't, you can't-- you can't not be-- you can hate this movie but you're going talk about this movie. he just said i'm going after this, i'm going to tell the

truth about in a clever way how life is, how you feel and not be coy about it an i think it makes people, they're not used to that and once you hit that, like when you go into somebody's brain, you can-- you know, you can hit a little thing it kind of hits this thing. and makes it react to it. just simple humanity, nicole-- nicholson, i called him and said would you come see this movie of mine. and afterwards he looked at me. and what did he say, masterful. i'm glad you made this, keats because now i don't have to make it and then he called me the next day which i knew he would. and i got the really clear-headed articulate focused jack. and he went on for like 20 minutes. and all he kept talking about was the beauty of it.

the beauty. there was beautiful and the beauty. and i thought yeah, alejandro is not afraid of that stuff. >> rose: you can do the best impression of him around, can't you. >> no, no. >> rose: yes, you can. >> there are people who nail him. >> rose: no, you got it. >> rose: but he has distinct features that make it easy for someone that does impressions, doesn't he i have seen robin do it brilliantly but robin could do american brilliant. robin once did, imagine a conversation between mar long and jack. jack -- >> yeah. yeah. wow. that just-- that hit people hard. you know, that's interesting. i don't know why, like the robin dropped people to their knees, i think that is saying something about the "birdman". kuz a lot of people go through things and you read about someone, you feel badly. and you go that's too bad. but for some reason his death was really hard on me and other people. i flew, but i didn't hang out with him.

i think it is a similar thing with birdman where for some reason, there is something about it where it just-- it goes through-- it's like the bullet misses the ribs and this is all the bones t doesn't deflect t just goes right-- . >> rose: what is it though? >> i don't know. i don't even want to know. >> rose: that's true. you don't really want to know. because it is almost, if you try to figure it out t takes something away from it. it is in the land of sort of, you can feel it but don't know it. >> totally, 100 percent. rses by its-- but it's done a marvelous thing for you. >> yeah. >> rose: beyond all the buzz about an oscar. what oms has it done. has it given you any sense of wanting to change the way you do things? to change your anything? what has it changed for you? >> even before. >> i don't know it's changed. >> what has it encouraged. >> to trust that i'm not-- that you know, courage is always

one of my-- one of the great virtues you can have, meaning ride out the tough stuff. enjoy the big stuff, don't keep-- keep it in perspective. keep trusting your gut and when this comes along with a guy who you go man, i can jump on that train and you jump on that train and it works so it makes you go way, i am just going keep on-- by the way, if i keep on doing what i i'm doing i'm sure some day we will be sitting here talking about, we will do some movie i did, what were you thinking. >> rose: i can do that now. >> that's going to happen. >> here is what-- said. >> he said are you the guy. he said there is no one else. you would do what it required. you were not a guy that that thought i have to imagine myself in a certain way. you were prepared to say i will inhab think the

character like nobody. >> i think the fact-- and add to it i think if i had a millisecond of doubt and i probably had about a milli second of working with this guy, it was kuz i knew that there was a risk involved because-- i thought are you really, everything you think you are you obviously aren't if you don't have the guts to say i will do this and i might fail. because otherwise never want to look back and go i kind of wimped out on that one. so i thought, i think it's really-- lacks courage not to take it on and risk what might be talked about or done or whatever. i have never, i always feel good about myself by saying, i tell people, occasionally what i lack in talent sometimes i think i make up for in guts or stupidity so i don't think you should an afraid. i think you know, it's one

of my fair ri-- favorite virtues. anything, for anybody. when i see people, athletes i'm not talking about actorsing i'm talking about people. i mean i'm not kidding, this may sound-- i don't care how it sounds. you look at people who say, they profiled that guy from new hampshire, two kids and he went into liberia, and literally hand fought-- works with ebola patients. are you kidding me? that's-- . >> rose: that's courage. >> that's courage. >> yeah. >> people never understood about you, and no reason for them to know because they don't know the inner lives is that you had so many other things in your life you were curious about you read a lot. you care about public affairs. you like the company of smart people. >> yeah. >> at the same-- there was no-- you loved hollywood. you loved acting, but you didn't have to be doing it all the time. >> no.

>> rose: you didn't have to be in the public eye all the time. >> right. >> rose: you didn't have to have fame. >> right. >> rose: what you had to do was have things in front of you that excited you, stimulated you, and were a conversation you wanted to be part of. >> yes, and i just wanted to be good. >> and by the way all this other stuff, and the perks of whatever you get by being well-known, i actually don't like a lot of attention. but i don't want to ago like i think it's all evil. it's fantastic, am i wrong. i just told you this story about a woman who maybe-- your big fan, if you act like that doesn't make you feel good, it's a lie. >> rose: absolutely right. it makes you think like i'm doing something that is connecting some way. >> that is the best. that is the best. tom is right, i'm endlessly curious. i don't know how to not be curious. and so sometimes the only thing, the only impatience i have among my other-- that is something i have to work on, impatience, is i keep

thinking i got a lot more creatively to do. i want to hurry up and get it out of the way because i got this other stuff i want to do. >> rose: what is the other stuff. >> oh, man, i think doing stuff for other people is just-- it's selfish, actually, because i know it will make me-- i think dow it not for your ego. it's just, you are only here once. and the world is so much bigger than you are. >> rose: but you've got too deal too, knowing that, and how real and courageous you are, you have got to feel like damn, i sweep the theatres. >> it's so great. and it is great when it comes around. >> rose: unexpectedment you didn't go out searching for this vehicle. >> no, but i got to tell you this. i went out, i started dialing the scope. i started bringing things in focus and start seeing that thing in the corner, on that mountain side and people saying okay, it's dark. walking down a little closer and pick one off, maybe this is that say little comedy.

a little-- you do the other guy. the other guy was probably the first jab. and people go oh, yeah, i forgot. he can hit. and you go okay, what is the next thing. and then you start-- and so i started this-- for me that's more work than probably most people tend-- because i continued to be curious about that, i want to go do this, do that. i could turn around and go bac to africa tomorrow. it is the greatest place in the world. but a lot of stuff had to go away. >> but there's also this. are you an actor. what you do, and the opportunity to do what you do well is a remarkable thing. >> yeah. >> rose: an to do it with the company of people who have the same skill levels. and who will make you bring out the best in you. >> yeah, blessing. >> besting. >> yeah, yeah, it's all a

blessing. two arms, two legs. >> and at the same time, is it beyond the sense of enjoying-- i mean you love the idea that people recognize this and see it and attention and the buzz. >> all of that. >> yeah. >> simply because it is human to like that. >> yes. or not crave it, i don't want to lie to you and go oh, i don't really like that. so i don't know where you were right before you began to get closer, and began to-- what was it happening to you when you said, well, maybe i would have-- blocked closer. >> yeah. >> maybe i ought to be more available. >> yes, be more available. in a lot of ways, make yourself physically available. kind of let people know, no, no, no. and that started a while back. and by the way, i don't want to mislead anyone here. it is not like people are going knocking on doors, come on, mike, read this and at this go see the man

chopping the trees in the backyard. he wouldn't do this. there is a lot of that. and there was some like maybe, and i didn't, but so there-- it wasn't like so you know, yes, there was that, bringing into focus and wanting to do it and at the same time, ironically, it is kind of like, i think you and i, i told you, i had a job where you go home at the end of the day and you go well, i have to clean up you know, kuz this is what i did. it's a weird-- "birdman" made me feel like that a few other jobs made me feel like that mostly you go home going i don't know quite what i did today. >> rose: "birdman" made you feel what? >> i need a damn shower because i just came from a mill and i worked my ass off. and i made something. >> rose: and i earned my pay. >> i earned my pay. >> rose: i gave them everything hi. >> yeah. >> rose: and all the years, all the experience, all the skill. >> yeah. >> rose: all the love i just laid it out there. >> and i made something.

>> rose: like bruce springsteen at the end of a four hour concert. >> yes. >> rose: i have given you everything i have. >> and when bruce springsteen ends a four our-- four hour concert. he gave something, he made something, that he is a product. people went home with something, that too. >> rose: it's nice to feel that. >> boy, is it. >> rose: and that is what you were feeling in the end. >> yeah, i'm sure there will be others i am not going to get it. i am going to get it but you know-- . >> rose: to have it four or five times in your life. >> dude. >> beetlejuice 2. >> uh-huh. >> do you think will you have it again? >> i have been saying it for so long now that it reached the point where you go now i'm even tired of talking about it. either you want to do it or don't want to do it i don't understand why you wouldn't want to do it. it is so original and people like it so much. it makes so many people happy. and tim, you know, from what i understand, is relatively interested. but you don't make it

without him or at least tim being heavily involved. i don't think you make it without him. >> dow like -- >> you created-- you just told us. story about it was what you did that sort of converged with what he was thinking about. >> yes and more. >> you gave definition. >> yeah. >> to a question he had asked. >> but he had the imimagery. >> and everyone, danny elfman, bowel much, the-- those guys this thing. and i went wow, i don't know what this is but it sure is fun -- >> it is a crazy thing, in an actor's life, they expect every time you go out to be better than the last time and bigger than last time it is impossible. >> it is. >> because you have to have all these things and as you once said, good fortune. >> yeah. all that has to come together. >> yes. >> so here are you in the midst of this, the buzz, the feeling of accomplishment, the sense of this is why i'm

an actor to get a chance to do something like this. >> when people call it a comeback, you want to dismiss that and say no. >> it's wok with me. call it what you want. for me comeback, it has been a comeback for me since, let's see, i showed up here with 270 in my pocket. i got my first job when i was 20, 25 is when the comeback started. >> for me it's just like all one thing. but i'm okay with it. i kind of -- >> for the-- less ambitious folks, i get why that is a-- people want to dot extra work. i don't want to say lazy but i get that, i totally get that actually it's okay. totally okay. it's all right with me. you just like the doing of the thing, whatever people want to describe it as is fine with you.

>> absolutely. >> rose: because in the end you are the one who experienced the exhilaration of knocking it out of the park when given the opportunity. >> yeah, and by the way, now that i hear you ask it and me talk about it, come back to what, really, because i go there were things i didn't do well. so there are things that did really well some come back, i'm not sure what-- you know what i mean. it wasn't always like that --. >> i think in your case comeback means they just haven't seen or heard much from you in terms of a movie that is generating so much bus that is what it is. >> michael keaton at the centre of a movie that everybody is talking about, comeback reasons have at it. >> exactly. >> we don't have an actor. and if we cancel the first preview the press is going to smell blood and we can't afford to lose any more money at all. >> what do you think we should do. >> hire an understudy. let's use the understudy. >> please for the love of god, listen. our perfect dream act certificate not going to

knock on the door, hey, fellas, when i do start. >> can i talk to you for a secretary. >> yeah, what's up. >> did you find another actor. >> well, mike's available. >> he is. >> i thought he was doing the thing -- >> he was, he quit. >> mike who. >> quit or fired. >> with mike it's usually both. >> mike who. >> jake. >> oh my gosh, how do you know mike shiner. >> we share-- how do you know. >> because kuz he told me. >> jake, yes, ask me if he sells tickets. >> does he sell tickets. >> he sells a-- of tickets, ask me if the threater critics love him. >> they want to-- on him. >> everything for a reason, right. think will come in this evening. >> i'll call him and find out. >> has it changed you? has in experience made michael dot, i do, dot. >> it's as good timing as could ask for this is as good as it gets.

in terms of how i am, how i feelqc]!ere everything is. things are settled and all the areas i go yeah, man, god loves me figured it out. it's good timing. >> i think it all would have been good timing anyway, whatever. by the way, this could have come along or-- could have come along. when i did night shows i just do what i think i'm supposed to do. whatever the job is i looked at the script, i did the work and add its whatever i added. >> threw there is a scene where it's a dramatic scene. i played it where i thought it should be. a very, very real scene. and it kind of shifted everything. >> everybody like went and said okay, he talked-- he was very, very pleased but he wasn't ready for it. >> and i thought that is what the thing says that is what you do, right? >> so yeah, i committed to

it and i tried to do it as best i could but why is it a surprise. that is the job. he's acting like this and then he acts like that so now i'm acting like that. so that's what i am supposed to do. if something like that would have happened continuation turned things without people really realizing it where they went oh, hmmmm, okay. that's interesting. but it's great for me now but i-- it would have been good for me at any time it would have been good for me at 22 or-- 22, 32, 42, 52, it comes when-- once doesn't matter. >> yeah, yeah. >> the question is how long, it doesn't really feel like a man's job a lot. and i don't-- can't quite put my finger on that because i really add miferment i look at hall holbrook and what did in the movie into the wild.

and it was so unbelievably perfect and poetic and simple and brilliant. i thought look at that guy. nailing that. that is admirable. there is part of me that goes i want to be that guy, and part of me wants to go this is aisle, this is em bar rags. i should have a job where i actually make something. like a person, i don't know, i don't get it sometimes. i get confused. >> the best that i know feel a little bit like that. >> really? >> that's either encouraging or discouraging. >> much success, thank you for this. >> thank you. >> rose: michael keaton. the fill some "birdman". ♪ ♪ i remember when i lost my mind ♪ ♪ there's something about that day ♪ ♪ feeling your emotions.

>> how did we end up here? this dump? >> you were a movie star, remember? i'm crazy ♪ ♪ maybe you're crazy ♪. >> "birdman". >> maybe we're crazy wait and see. >> you're "birdman". let's go back one more time and show them what we're kanl of. >> why don't you get your wings and bird suit, man

what are you looking at? >> rose: for more about this program and earlier episodes visit us on-line at pbs.org and charlie rose.com captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

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>> the following kqed production was produced in high definition. [ ♪music ] >> yes, check, please! people. >> no! >> it's all about licking your plate. >> the food is just fabulous. >> i should be in psychoanalysis for the amount of money i spend in restaurants. >> i had a horrible experience. >> i don't even think we were at the same restaurant. >> and everybody, i'm sure, saved room for those desserts.