>> charlie: womennum to the program. we begin this evening with the supreme court's decision to hear cases that will offer it the chance to decide on the constitutionality of same-sex marriages. >> i think this is one of the most importanting civil rights issues to face this country in the last 50 years. >> charlie: we continue this evening with matt olsen, former director of the national counterterrorism center. >> what we're seeing in europe with the arrests and the raids in belgium and germany and other places in france my sense of that is those are efforts to really get ahead of this problem. they are efforts to disrupt individuals who intelligence services have been watching for some time but now because of that concern that paris might act as an accelerant to their actions, in other words accelerate their plotting, those european services are deciding to move in now. that's the kind of thing we would have looked at in the

united states as well. who are we seeing on that path from radicalization to mobilization to violence such that we need to now move in and carry out some sort of disruptive arrest. >> charlie: and we conclude with the great boxer manny pacquiao. >> i want to help people. i want to help the poor people you know because i have been there. i have been through how hard being poor family no food to eat i experienced that. we don't have food one day, we didn't have food to eat, so we just drink water to survive. that's hour our lives have been. so i'm turning back to the poor people, helping them. >> charlie: the supreme court decides to consider the constitutionality of same-sex marriage. we look at terrorism from around the world, and we talk to manny pacquiao, the great boxer.

captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> charlie: the supreme court agreed friday to resolve the national debate over same-sex marriage. the justices will consider four cases from michigan ohio kentucky and tennessee. the four states are among 14 that ban same-sex marriage. the cases will be argued in

april and the decision is expected by late june. the decision comes just months after the justices refused to hear any appeals from rules allowing same-sex marriage in october. the supreme court's failure to act did not establish a constitutional right for gay couples to marry but helped lift state bans across the country. couples may marry in 36 dates states and the district of columbia. david boies joints me, served as co-council on prop 8 and played a role in the battle for same-sex marriage. i am pleased to have him back at the table. thank you for coming. >> absolutely, good to be here. >> charlie: what did they do and what does it mean? >> what they did is granted permission to be reviewed by the sixth court of appeals who actually voted in a divided opinion 2-1 to uphold bans on

same-sex marriage. what this means is that the supreme court is going to definitively decide the marriage ecrawlt issue probably this year. we'll probably have the decision in june probably argued sometime in late april. so we're going to know by june of this year by the end of june whether or not there is a national established definitive right to marriage equality under the federal constitution. >> charlie: it could very well mean that you have all couples have the right to marry. what's it like to be in terms of the supreme court? i read something today said anthony kennedy is crucial to how this may come down. >> i think that's right because i think that if you look at the vote in the windser case. the windsor case was a different case. soar if you look at the vote in the lawrence versus texas case, again a different case, but both

cases were articulating the fundamental constitutional right to equality regardless of gender and sexual orientation. and justice scalia who is no fan of marriage equality, in each of those dissents said marriage equality is inevitable. if the court does this, the court is going to find some day soon that there is a constitutional right to marriage equality is that and he may be right. >> yes. >> charlie: why do you think the court decided to do this now? >> i think the court felt it had to, because of what the court did last october was let stand a whole series of court of appeals decisions that invalidated bans on marriage equality. in virginia where ted olsen and i represented the plaintiffs, all across the country. now, to have let those bans be invalidated by federal courts of appeals and then let another

federal court of court of appeal uphold those bans created a split in the circuits, in the federal appeals courts and that's something particularly on an issue of fundamental imorps i think -- >> charlie: they were looking for something that expressed the question in the right way? >> or the conflict. the michigan case, if the sixth circuit had done what the fourth and seventh circuit did and invalidated the bans, i don't think the supreme court would have taken the case. i think the supreme court almost had to have taken the case because now you had a serious split in the circuits and you had to have the same law in michigan as in virginia. >> charlie: how historic is this? >> i think it's a very historic case. this is one of the most important civil rights issues to face this country in the last 50 years. >> charlie: so this is something like brown versus board of education? >> very much so.

obviously the fight for racial equality was different than the fight for this but each of those cases played a huge step forward to equality for our citizens. >> charlie: and it's interesting to me -- the country's turned on this, already you found that out. >> yes. >> charlie: and here's the court coming behind where the country was. >> yes. >> charlie: if they rule it -- i mean something could change. maybe it doesn't turn out the way it might could turn out. >> it could. but it's really hard to see how the court, given what court said in windsor what the court said in lawrence, very difficult to see how the court at this point could do anything other than uphold the right. now, the court has interestingly scheduled two arguments. the first argument says are states constitutionally required to adopt mary ellen marriage equality?

the second question is, if they're not, are they constitutionally required to recognize marriage from other states? you've only reached the second question if you decided the the first question in the negative. you can't read anything into the fact if they have both questions because both questions were presented in the cases coming up. for instance the ohio case coming up only involved people seeking recognition in ohio for marriages that took place in other states. so they had to have both questions. but the fact they have both questions means this is going to definitively decide both to have the open issues. >> charlie: will people make arguments as friends of the court? >> oh, yeah. the court will be buried. >> charlie: under the number of people who want to make -- >> both sides of this issue. >> charlie: will you be one of them? >> i don't think so. >> charlie: you've done your part? >> i think the issues here are pretty clear. i think people will and maybe

i'll even participate in that but, fundamentally, i think the issues are clear and the lines are drawn, and i suspect that, while the court will listen to the arguments, i suspect that all nine justices are going to come in to that argument are some pretty (indiscernible) snoop it means the greatest legacy of the robert court is same-sex marriage equality. >> i think this will be the most important civil rights decisions of this court and one of the most important decisions this upcourt could make, and it would be ironic if it was another 5-4 decision like the others. >> charlie: what do you say? i mean, this was something for the court to decide. >> yes. >> charlie: better than the congress to make a law. >> well the court had to decide it because, in our system of

government, it is up to the court to decide constitutional questions. our founders decided more than 200 years ago that there were certain rights, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, the right to assembly, equality that were so important that no majority could take those away. you don't put freedom of the press up for a vote state by state. you don't put marriage equality up for a vote state by state. the supreme court has held 14 times that marriage is a fundamental right that the states can't take a way. >> charlie: great to see you, david. thank you. >> thank you. >> charlie: back in a moment. stay with us. >> charlie: the news this week is dom made by the response to the paris terror attacks. police have arrested or detained dozens of suspected terrorists in france belgium and germany killing two, and here at home the f.b.i. said it has broken up a planned lone wolf attack on

the u.s. capitol. joining me is matt olsen, an abc news contributor and former director of the national counterterrorism center. matt, thank you for doing this. i want to ask general questions to set the context of where we are. you spent a portion of your life focusing on these questions. >> that's right. >> charlie: you know, if we are at war, who are we at war with, and how will the war be fought? >> we are at war with al quaida, the group in pakistan and afghanistan that brought us 9/11. congress passed the authorization for use of military force, and that is the basis for the conclusion that we're at war with al quaida but we have a much broader conflict with groups that either are aligned with or affiliated with al quaida. and that's what aqap al quaida and the aarabian peninsula, this group in yemen tied to the attacks in paris, they fall into that category.

the group closely affiliated with core al quaida and, really that's the group that's been the most operationally active over the past several years. >> charlie: especially in trying to attack us. >> exactly. so as we look at the range of threats and the range of groups, whether in pakistan afghanistan or in the middle east yemen syria or across north africa we have been focused at the national counterterrorism center which of the groups are focused on carrying out attacks in the united states or for that fact europe and apaq is the group we're most concerned about and also i.s.i.s. that's come on the scene in the last year. >> charlie: among other things, they're calling for young men and women to attack. >> exactly. unfortunately, the attack in paris in some ways is the culmination of trends that we've seen over the past several years. the calling for, as you say charlie, smaller-scale attacks.

so these groups in yemen, for example saying wherever you are, carry out jihad there. don't travel to yemen or communicate with us because that's how you get caught. >> charlie: and don't wait for instructions from us. >> right. we can inspire you, send you instructions online, through their magazine, for example but just carry out an attack. it may be a small-scale attack but a tragic heathle attack nonetheless. >> charlie: what's changed from the fact that so many jihadists want to go to syria and have gone to syria and have received military training some have gone to yemen some other places. >> right. >> charlie: but syria seems to be -- >> syria has been the magnet for extremists in the last couple of yearsenned the numbers are daunting, 15,000 approaching 18,000 total foreign fighters going to syria. the real concern, though, is the 3,000 or so europeans that have gone because of their ease of travel back and forth from europe to syria and, obviously, the potential that they could

come back through europe into the united states. you know, what happens in syria it's hard for us to know because we don't have as good intelligence collection in syria, but clearly they're getting radicalized and trained. >> charlie: back to the war. what are going to be the tools of this war? >> the tools of this war are different from past wars, certainly different from conventional wars, and we've seen this over the past 13 years since 9/11 we've seen it certainly in the last several years, and it's really -- the idea is to use all our tools. use military force when appropriate and necessary, but also use intelligence collection, law enforcement diplomacy, economic sanctions. every tool at our disproposal is going to be necessary to take on this fight. it's not just a military solution that, often cases, is the last resort. >> charlie: are these people tilt to infiltrate? >> they're very difficult to infiltrate and getting harder. they're very suspicious.

they are -- particularly if you look at a group like aqap in yemen, they are very difficult for us to introduce sources into and they're increasingly difficult to infiltrate electronically, in other words to conduct electronic surveillance, whether wiretaps or seeing their e-mails. they have become increasingly suspicious in the last couple of years because to have the leaks or western's ability to conductor surveillance. >> charlie: the way we tracked down osama bin laden did they learn from that? >> they definitely learned, i think, from that to be particularly cautious. i mean, they even saw how cautious bin laden was and we were still able to kill him. but that's just one part of a broader story with they've learned over the past and again particularly in the last couple of years to be extremely careful in how they communicate. they use encryption and have in some cases dropped off our ability to collect intelligence

altogether. >> charlie: al quaida and the aarabian peninsula has taken credit for the french attack. >> correct. >> charlie: does the intelligence community accept the fact they paid for, directed, conceived that attack? >> you know, i think that that's still an open question for my former colleagues at the national counterterrorism center and inside the intelligence community. you know certainly, they played a role. the question is now, i think, how big or direct a role. i say they certainly played a role because we know at least one of the brothers the younger brother cherif traveled to yemen and trained there and they were inspired by al quaida at the aarabian peninsula. >> charlie: did they see awlaki or not? >> the american cleric that was killed -- >> charlie: do we know if they had contact with him? >> we don't know for sure. one thing that comes across is he still resonates even though years after he was killed, they still cite to him and he still has an influence that's really

significant and obviously quite troubling for u.s. counterterrorism officials. >> charlie: why do people become jihadists? >> that's a hard question. you know, you look at like this individual you mentioned at the opening who had a plot to carry out an attack against the u.s. capitol, this guy out of chicago, a young man, you know he was a muslim convert. he did not -- it's very hard to look at anything in his past and say this person was going to buy two m-16 rifles and carry out an attack. it's really hard to discern what in his past made him susceptible. the problem is that this messaging that comes out of whether it's yemen or i.s.i.s. in syria, it preys on people who may be susceptible to this kind of violent message, and whether they have mental illness issues or are just marginalized or otherwise susceptible to this violent messaging it definitely has an impact oa small number

of people. >> charlie: do you fear an event like paris will act as an accelerant and will cause peep to say -- be motivated to do it? >> i do have that concern and juan is a really thoughtful guy and i agree with him. it could act as an accelerant. what we see in your europe my sense is those are efforts to get ahead of this problem. they are efforts to disrupt individuals whose swell generals services have been watching for some time but now because of that concern that paris might as act as an accelerant to their actions, in other words accelerate their plotting, those european services are deciding to move in now. that's the kind of thing we would have looked at in the united states as well, who are we seeing on the path from radicalization to mobilization to violence such that we need to now move in and carry out some sort of disruptive arrests.

>> charlie: did we perhaps lose a step in this battle because we got so focused on i.s.i.s. because they know how to use social media, because they were extremely violent in terms of beheading, they were visible in how they used terror? >> yeah, i don't think we lost a step. you know, i know that the headlines were very focused and understandably so on i.s.i.s. last fall with the beheadings and the horrific violence. but i know from my own time inside the government that we were always very focused on aqap. this is a group that did tried three times since 2009 to take down an airplane bound for the united states. >> charlie: underwear bomber. underwear bomber in 2009, printer plot in 2012 and then in 2012 another effort that was disrupted. so we knew to keep our eye on them so at least within the counterterrorism community, we remain focused. >> charlie: when you think

about al-nusra and al quaida as we know it, zawahiri, and al quaida in iraq that became i.s.i.s., and when you think of al quaida in the arabian peninsula and other al quaida groups, are they in competition with each other for some prize? >> you know, at the senior levels, at the leadership levels, we definitely have seen this conflict, this competition between i.s.i.s. on the one hand and al quaida and aqap on the other hand at the senior levels they definitely are at odds. i think the rank and file and individuals that we saw in paris, they are like minded enough that they're going to work together. we're not going to see them at odds with each other. >> charlie: it is said that bin laden never believed that it was time to establish the caliphate, to establish an islamic state and thought it was a wrong strategy.

>> right. >> charlie: but here comes i.s.i.s. >> right. and that still is a conflict. so i.s.i.s. focused on establishing a caliphate aqap in yemen al quaida in pakistan, they are still focused on carrying out attacks against the west. in fact, we've talked over the last several months about this group in syria of veteran al quaida visit the khorasan group -- >> charlie: had plans to attack us. >> -- planning to carry out attacks on the west, they still focus. so there's a strategic difference between the two groups. but at the tactical level we see in paris is there there's a sufficient commonality they'll work together. >> charlie: who leads terrorism against the united states? obviously, it's the pentagon. is it special forces? is there one place where one person says i'm responsible for

the battle against terrorism? >> i think, and this is my experience, i think it starts with the president. we met every two weeks with the president and the national security council. i briefed the president at those meetings every two weeks and it was very tactical. here's this plot here's this guy, here's what we're tracking. then the president after i spoke about those threats turned to the c.i.a. director the f.b.i. director, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff and asked what are we doing about these? and that was followed up by meetings at the white house with an f security council team, so it was a largely led by the white house where we all played an integral role. >> charlie: but there was a point, especially based on what happened in afghanistan and the captures made of that original group, many of them went to guantanamo, that somehow they had wiped out the core

leadership of al quaida. and now we look at a totally different challenge. >> it is a very different challenge. this is teff luges of the threat. we have essentially devastated the leadership of core al quaida. they are really nothing like what they were ten or even four years ago. but this threat has spread geographically to other place and become much more diverse. if you look at a group like aqap in yemen, i.s.i.s. in syria or boko haram in nigeria. >> charlie: killing more people than anybody. >> way more really hundreds last week by some reports, and, you know they're not necessarily focused on carrying out attacks anywhere outside nigeria but they are aligned with this ideology. so this al quaida sort of philosophy this movement has spread, so it's not this monolithic threat, it's much more complex than that now. >> charlie: at the time of 9/11 the afghan government, the taliban government was giving a

safe haven thele -- a safe haven to al quaida. >> charlie: and pakistan tended to, north wiz waziristan. are there other places like libya that totter on becoming a failed state and susceptible to that? >> this is an enduring problem, this safe haven problem. you put your finger on it. it was the problem in afghanistan. we have a huge effort there by the united states and other countries but to answer your question yeah, in parts of yemen, al quaida and the aarabian peninsula an joyce a safe haven, freedom to move train and operate. it's definitely true and the biggest problem is syria and iraq. >> charlie: we'll come back to syria. the yemeni government is impotent to stop them. >> they're better than they were and they're a good ally of ours.

there's intelligence sharing and operational cooperation there, burks you know, that country and government have deep-seated problems, and, so, the ability of the united states to work with them, to build their capacity to be better at counterterrorism, that's a long-term effort but absolutely essential. you could add to that list somalia and north nigeria. >> charlie: french got involved in mali in a big way. >> right. >> charlie: the fear now -- and this is a question they worry in paris, we just saw one cell that supported them and made some arrest and they have suspects. how many sleeper cells might there be in the united states? >> right. >> charlie: is that a huge concern? >> you knowish it's a concern. we have a different -- we are fortunate in the united states, we do not have the same degree of problem that europe has france and belgium, and i think

also the united kingdom in terms of the numbers of extremists, where people have gone to syria and returned with training from radicalization. the numbers are not here. we have a lot of effort by the f.b.i. and the intelligence community to understand who's being radicalized and moving in that direct. but the answer -- you know also, you have to build in people like the -- the tsarnaev brothers from the boston bombing. >> charlie: one had gone to chechnya, had he not? >> the older brother had traveled to russia. there is information we had received from the russians about them. they looked at that tracked them and talked to him did

everything they regularly could. that's the challenge. how much can you do to keep all these people on the radar and under surveillance in a free society. there's always a concern about those we don't know about who might be prepared to carry out what might be a small scale attack. we're not talking about a 9/11 attack. >> charlie: something like happened in paris? >> more like paris. >> charlie: subway. or like what we saw in london, that was a more significant attack in 2005 in london, but a soft target like a transportation, subway, train bus or a grocery store a jewish grocery store like we saw in paris. >> charlie: do you believe we'll see an attack in the united states? >> i think we strive to be 100% effective in the counterterrorism business but realistically, you have to assume that it only takes one person, you know with a gun to carry out an attack. >> charlie: to slip through. to slip through.

>> charlie: you have to be right 100% of the time and they only have to be right one time. >> exactly and those odds are not great. on the good side, the resilience of the american people we saw after boston, the slogan boston strong, and you see it in paris with "je suis charlie," the resilience of the people is encouraging of the french people. >> charlie: there is also the question of how do you fight the ideological battle. >> right. >> charlie: what steps are we taking to stop the seductiveness of the recruitment process on the internet? >> this is an important response to the counterterrorism empt. we were really involved with this at the counterterrorism department and f.b.i. and department of homeland security. the president announced in his press conference including the prime minister from the u.k., this will be about building trust with muslim communities in

the united states, learning how to counterthat message giving families the tools, religious leaders the tools to counter the message. a couple of days ago the mother of an individual who was stopped on his way to syria went on the news and she made the statement, ms. khan out of chicago, and said to i.s.i.s., directly addressing baghdadi you know, leave our children alone, she said. and this is a muslim mother of a young man being charged with a crime of trying to join i.s.i.s. that's the kind of thing that we need to have across this country, and that's what i think the president is going to address next month in the summit that he's holding, really important. >> charlie: what ought to come out of that summit? >> i think a very high-level emphasis that's happening across country, but high-level emphasis on building trust an outreach to muslim and arab communities, teaching our law enforcement how to identify the season of radicalization -- the signs of radicalization and building

bridges between muslim communities in the united states and law enforcement so they trust each other enough so that when a mother or a neighbor sees a problem they can go to the police or the f.b.i. these are long-standing problems but it's very important. >> charlie: two place where is the u.s. responded. iraq. evidently the air bombardments have been more successful in iraq than syria. >> right. >> charlie: and in fact, i've seen reports that in syria, they have not been that effective. is that a fair assessment? >> you know, i see the same thing you do now that i'm out of government. we have much more capability in iraq to carry out strikes and more presence on the ground because we're working closely with iraqi and kurdish security forces. in syria it will take longer and more difficult.

i think it's important when we have an opportunity to take out a leader or infrastructure in syria that's part of i.s.i.s. that we take those steps and i think it is going to take longer but is an integral part of our strategy. >> charlie: thanks for coming. thanks for having me. >> charlie: back in a moment. stay with us. >> charlie: manny pacquiao is here. he is a ten-time world champion boxer. he is the only boxer to have won a title in eight different weight divisions. his incredible life story made him an international icon and national hero in his native philippines. he is the subject of a new documentary, it is called "manny" and here is the trailer. >> when i was a boy i had to fight to feed my family. my entire life i fought to survive. boxing was my only hope. >> manny pacquiao has been on this board for 20 long years.

he is an eight-time world champion, and may some bay be in the boxing hall of fame. he took styles to make every fight a drama in itself. he knows the ruthlessness of boxing better than anyone. if you're a fighter and truly a fighter then you get back up and you fight again. >> i don't care who it is. he comes out, smiling and waving at everybody. >> i always say you never know when the next mohamed a a ali is going to walk through the door. >> it's his life story that made him famous in sports. >> on the corps of thyme magazine, 60 minutes late night. he transcended and made the

transition from boxing. >> your life transcended beyond the boxing ring. >> it's bigger than boxing. bigger than being a prize fighter. his journey now is about fighting and winning for a people. a huge burden, but he accepts it. >> why do i box? why do i fight? because it's the way. >> charlie: i'm pleased to have manny pacquiao at this table. welcome. why do you fight? >> because it's god's will. >> charlie: god's will. god told you this is what you have to do for yourself and for your people? >> yeah. i think that's the way of god, not my way because we were very poor and my mother, my parents don't have money to send me to school. >> charlie: you've given a lot of your money to the poor in the

fill peeps. >> yeah, because i feel what they're feeling, the feel of being poor and don't have food to eat. >> charlie: you're in the congress. do you want to be president? >> it's up to god. it's in god's hands, my future. >> charlie: god's been good to you. >> yeah, he's been gracious and, you know, is a loving god and he provides me all this. >> charlie: why are you so good? is it brains? is it heart? is it fists? is it speed? is it what? >> it's a combination. your faith your mind, your hard work, and the most important thing is your relationship and belief to god. >> charlie: will your life be

complete if you don't beat floyd mayweather? >> you know my achievement in boxing what i have done in boxing is i'm already saturdays fight. a different weight division. what i have done in boxing is more than my imagination and i'm happy for that. but, you know if that fight will not happen, i think it is more in defense of boxing, not me but more in defense of boxing because they really want to see that fight, and i think the fans deserve that fight. >> charlie: there is talk that you have agreed. >> yes both me and my promoter, we agreed of the terms and conditions, what they want to do, and we agree with it. the fight, it's about this close to, you know, to make it happen, and we're just waiting for the

contract to be signed from them. >> charlie: when do you expect it? >> well, i'm expecting that within this month they will -- we'll hear a response from them. >> charlie: and it will take place where? las vegas? >> if the fight happens, it will be in las vegas at mgm on may 22. >> charlie: what do you think the anticipated revenue will be from that fight? >> i'm not thinking about that. i don't have an idea. my focus is if that fight will happen, it's going to be good for the fans. the fans, i'm sure they're very excited for that fight. >> charlie: there's nothing i can say to you that you haven't already thought about but, you know, some wonder why this hasn't taken place before, and both you and floyd have gotten older. at some point it's going to be less attractive. >> yes. i think this is the right time to make that fight happen, for me.

>> charlie: compare the two of you. compare the two of us? mmm... i'm the one -- you know, he's screaming he's pound for pound number one and is undefeated. yes. >> charlie: true. but if you're docking someone how can you claim yourself you are found pound for pound. >> charlie: he's been ducking you? >> that's the way i feel. i have been wanting this fight four five years, and nothing's happened. so i think -- i mean it's time to make it happen. >> charlie: do you believe he's made excuses -- do you believe, for example, this insistence on some kind of drug testing is an excuse for him? >> no, it's not -- it isn't about drug testing. i'm the one who implement the

olympic drug testing, random drug testing. i'm the one who did that because there's a lot of fight about they are cheating, and i don't like that. i'm very honest, and i fear the lord and io i obey my god. >> charlie: because if you're cheating, god wouldn't like you? >> well i don't want to be detestable in the lord's sight. what i am doing is in the right way. >> charlie: but compare yourself with him again. you know, i mean, who has the most powerful punch? you or him? >> it depends. if he is claiming that he is a good fighter so he have to, you know -- >> charlie: you'd like to see it. >> yeah. i mean, we will see in the fight. >> charlie: is he faster than you are?

>> he's claiming that but i don't think he's faster than me. >> charlie: does he do anything better than you do? is. >> i mean we will see in the fight if that fight will happen. >> charlie: when you have lost why did you lose? >> it's a good thing that you lost because you learn a lot when you lose. >> charlie: like what? when you lose you learn a lot, it's not very careless and not very confident on yourself. just make sure that not overconfident. >> charlie: you have this interesting thing that i like. you look right into somebody's eyes. you do that with him and with your opponents. you stare them down? >> no just when i talk to the person, i have to look them in the eyes, you know. >> charlie: what do you see in their eyes?

can you see fear in another fighter's eyes? >> yes. tears of happiness and tears of sadness. >> charlie: what division have you liked best? >> division 135 140. >> charlie: when did you learn to speak english? >> six years ago. >> charlie: six years ago. yeah. >> charlie: how did you learn? i learned because i come to america and i don't have, you know, if i don't speak english how can i communicate with other people. so i have to learn english. and, of course, english is familiar to us because most of the people in the philippines, they speak english, like 90%.

>> charlie: so you knew some growing up. >> yes 80% to 90% speak english because our mainly subject in school -- our major subject in school is english. >> charlie: when do you think you will stop fighting? >> a couple more fights and i will announce it not only in the philippines but all over the world. >> charlie: you will announce it all over the world? >> yeah. >> charlie: so your ambition is to do what? i mean, i want to feel how bad you want floyd mayweather, jr. i mean, where is your heart on this in how much does this mean to you? how much have you desperately wanted to get him in the ring? >> i really want this fight to happen so that the fans, they will not bother me to ask the

question over and over, millions of questions -- >> charlie: when will you fight him? >> exactly. i have been bothered of that question, so i think it's a time to make it happen. that's so the people don't ask the question anymore. >> charlie: what do you want to do for your country? >> i want to help people. i want to help the poor people because i have been there. i have been through how hard being poor family, no food to eat. i experienced that we don't have food one day we don't have food to eat so we just drink water to survive that's how our life have been through. so i'm turning back to the poor people, helping them. i know what they're feeling and what i did in every fight, i

divided and give it to build a house and give it to the poor family who don't have a house and land. >> charlie: if you meet mayweather in las vegas, how many people from the philippines will you bring with you? >> there's going to be a lot of people all over the world, i think not only filipino people, but american, all over the world, they're very excited to see the fight hive. >> charlie: it is the fight they all want to see. >> oh, yeah all over. i went to thailand, i went to china, i went to the other side of the middle east they're asking when that fight happen. >> charlie: when the bell rings for the first round, whoever your opponent is, what are you thinking? what's in your head?

>> thinking? >> charlie: are you going to feel the other man out or are you thinking about -- you know what are you thinking about? >> thinking to throw a power punch. >> charlie: a power punch to set him up? >> to throw out a power punch and to make them feel that -- how heavy and hard and how every punch. >> charlie: here's what you said. "to me, boxing is a lot like chess. you don't just move a piece and wait for your opponent to respond. you have to see the board and think ten to 12 moves ahead and anticipate the variables your opponent may counter with." >> yeah. when the bell starts, i study his style and then throw out a combination shot, punch and a hard punch. >> charlie: what's the hardest thing for you in the fight? >> the hardest thing in the

fight is, as a boxer, training is the hardest thing. >> charlie: training. training is the hardest thing in boxing. the fight is you know -- to me, it's the training. >> charlie: preparation. preparation. yeah, because you don't know what's going to be in the fight. so training is the hardest part in boxing. >> charlie: your trainer said, freddy roach, said your power comes from your calves, did you know that? in your legs. >> yeah. >> charlie: some people say in boxing your legs are more important than anything. power comes from -- >> it's balance. balance. legs and arms how you -- you know, the coordination with the hands and legs.

the hands first and the legs. it's a balance. >> charlie: all punches are like this. they go like that, to they? >> i throw a punch like this. >> charlie: like this? yeah. it's the knuckle. >> charlie: so it's the knuckle. >> yeah. some fighters are like this. but me -- >> charlie: you -- it's almost down. >> yeah, like... because my favorite martial artist is bruce lee. >> charlie: why bruce lee. bruce lee's quickness and the power punch. he can do a power and i like that. >> charlie: was he a hero to you when you were growing up?

>> yeah, i like his foot work and hand speed. >> charlie: show me again. that's unbelievably fast. let me see it one more time. >> it's the quickness of his hands. >> charlie: are you born with quickness or is it something you can work on to develop your quickness? >> develop in training hard training, develop your quickness. >> charlie: what's your opinion of muhammad ali? >> muhammad ali. >> charlie: as a fighter,. he's good. >> charlie: who's the best i've ever known about. you? the best fighter you ever saw on film -- >> including me? (laughter) okay including me? >> charlie: you truly believe you are the best?

>> not including me because, you know i'm the one who break the record in the history of boxing. the record in boxing is only six weight division and i break eight weight divisions. >> charlie: that makes you the best of all time? >> based on the record, i break the record of boxing. so -- >> charlie: so, therefore -- there are a lot of best boxers and fighters in the world. >> charlie: who's the toughest you ever fought? >> margrito and morales. >> charlie: what does it feel like to get hit hard? when someone hands a solid

punch what's the feeling? >> it hurts. especially if you don't train hard, it really hurts. that's why my children, i want -- i don't want them to be boxers. >> charlie: you don't? i don't. i don't want them to be boxers because it's not easy. it's not easy. >> charlie: yeah. they want to watch the fight boxing, but i don't want them to be boxers. >> charlie: yeah but they look at you and they see a national hero. they understand the amount of money you have made. they understand the amount that you have done both in terms of financial contributions but also your own time and energy to your people. so you're a hero. >> yeah. >> charlie: everybody wants to be a hero. and your kids know that you became a hero because of -- >> they want to be like me.

>> charlie: yes. don't they want to be like you? >> i always told then that before i get through this position, you know, i have been through the hard life. my first fight in major boxing is only $1.50. that's my first purse. >> charlie: your first purse was $1.50. >> $1.50. >> charlie: and what's the biggest purse? >> when i start professional, my purse is $20. and my biggest purse is

26 million. >> charlie: will you make 100 million if you might mayweather? >> i don't know nothing about that. >> charlie: you don't think about it? >> my thinking is just, you know i'm happy of my life right now, i'm happy because i found -- >> charlie: you want to fight him. >> yeah i found a new life, i found a right life with god, and that's the most important thing. >> charlie: when did you find god? >> four years ago. >> charlie: yeah, that's what i heard. >> when i accepted jesus christ as my lord and savior. >> charlie: how did that happen? >> it happened that, you know, there's a conviction in my heart forcing me to read the bible and to all the things that i am doing daily, drinking,

womanizing grumbling filthy language from my mouth i don't like that anymore. it just happened in my life. and i read the bible and a lot of dreams happen in my life. i'm dreaming and the dream is not an ordinary dream. so i hear the voice of god. i saw two angels. i saw end times. it's not ordinary dreams that i experience. i mean, i am happy now because i find -- snoop you have a larger purpose. >> yes. >> charlie: for you to be in shape for a championship fight, how long will it take? >> championship fight? >> charlie: yeah mayweather, let's talk about it. how long will it take. six months? >> no, just two and a half

months. >> charlie: two and a half months you can do it? >> yeah, three and a half months because when you train over long months, you become overtrained. >> charlie: ah. so if you are overtrained that's not good. >> charlie: not good. yeah. so how do you know the perfect amount of time to train? >> two and a half months and then the first half month is light conditioning and then serious training and then two months before the fight you start the serious training. >> charlie: so give me a prediction. the mayweather fight will take place in las vegas on may 2. >> may 2, yeah. >> charlie: of 2015? yeah. we're just waiting for the contract to be signed from him. >> charlie: butteth for may 2 -- but it's for may 2, 2015. >> if the fight happen, probably may 2. >> charlie: thanks.

it's good to meet you. take a look at the documentary. you get a look at his life and some of the things we talked about here. for some reason, boxing has a worldwide attraction, i think because it's one on one, i think it's because it's so physical. i also think it's because it's so violent as well, but it's somehow, through the ages has had such an extraordinary appeal to people. >> yes and my purpose is not totally in boxing, competition and sports and boxing. i just want to inspire people how important life is and, you know, to share a good relationship with each other. >> charlie: thank you manny for joining us. see you next time. >> thank you. >> charlie: for more about this program and other episodes, join us online at pbs.org and charlierose.com.

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