>> charlie: welcome to the program we begin this evening with another look at i.s.i.l. what do you think the risk is? >> theories sk greater to the region than the united states. i think at the immewlation video puts that in perspective and i hope for a lot of the -- for arab publics and governments, they see that this is really a threat to them more than it is to the united states. >> charlie: we continue with joseph califano, a member of jimmy carter's cabinet and advisor for domestic affairs from 1965 to 1969 to lyndon johnson. his book is called the triumph and tragedy of lyndon johnson. >> he changed this country

dramatically and i think there is an appreciation of that now whether it was education, 60% of the kids in college today are there on his grant and loan programs, whether it was health, you know, 60 million or 70 million of americans on medicare, another 60 million on medicaid. the corporation for public broadcasting. >> charlie: we conclude with lynsey addario a pulitzer prize-winning war photographer and the author of "it's what i do: a photographer's life of love and war." >> icon front myself with the question, what am i doing here and why am i in libya and why i do care about this particular story enough to give my life? i don't think there's an answer, not certainly in that moment, but it is an answer that i believe this work has to be done and i believe that i have the

tools to go to these places and tell these stories and bring it home for a reader in the way that's accessible. >> charlie: cole bunzel joseph califano and lynsey addario when we continue. >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> rose: additional funding provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> charlie: white house officials confirmed the death of

aid worker kayla mueller on tuesday. she was the fourth and last known american hostage held by the islamic state in iraq and sir. i can't the announcement comes four days after i.s.i.l claimed she was killed by jordanian air strike in syria. president obama vowed to bring those responsible to justice. meanwhile, the united arab emirates rejoined the u.s. led campaign against i.s.i.s. for the first time since december, news after assad told bbc he is receiving information ability air strikes. joining me is cole bunzel, a doctoral student at princeton university and one of the world's leading experts on i.s.i.s. i am pleased to have him here. welcome. >> thank you for having me. >> charlie: tell me from all the team people you talked to, what's the status on the ground today. are airstrikes effective? can they stop i.s.i.l, push them back? >> i see them as very much

entrenched, they're still in mosul. they're withdrawn from certain areas strategically, but they're very much not losing territory. >> charlie: general allen and others who are over there feel because of immewlation and the universal outrage around the world there is a new unity among arab states against i.s.i.l. is that true? >> i think those that are boosting their efforts at the moment, i don't think they have enough interest to go after this group. >> charlie: even now? even now.

>> charlie: even after their own pilot was burned? >> yes. to put this in perspective, a day or two before the pilot was burned, his father was protesting not against i.s.i.s., he was protesting against the jordanian's government's involvement the campaign against i.s.i.s. it was only after the emulation that the leaders decided they were going to be against it. >> charlie: what would be his rationale for being against any effort to stop i.s.i.l? >> his rationale would be that this isn't a jordanian problem, that jordanians shouldn't be involved and that if america wants to pick a fight with this group that it's america's business and also that sheers sunni muslims who are fighting against shia muslims particularly those aligned with iran and the iraqis and he probably wouldn't see any

justification for jordan being involved in that fight. >> charlie: one of the things that i think people hope for is i think the president would be among those is that there will be ground forces from arab countries, from muslim countries and that would be an essential element rather than ground troops from the united states or even from western europe. >> yeah. >> charlie: is that a winning strategy and how do you define winning? >> ground troops is difficult. pretty much all military personnel whose comments i read agree without ground troops this group cannot be rooted out. >> charlie: you agree with that. >> absolutely. >> charlie: everybody i know agrees with that. >> how do we define winning? it's important to keep in perspective this group has been around since october of 2006 and for many -- >> charlie: that's nine years. yes. as the group likes to -- there's

a counter on the jihadi web sites that says the group is about 3,000 3,000 -- 3040-something days old. so the founding is symbolic to the group and its history and for many years, until 2013, it was understood as sort of a paper state. this is how its enemies ridiculed it and said this is really not a state. regional media and our own media and military and government officials refer to this group as al quaida in iraq, not as the islamic state state of iraq as it liked to be called. it was only in april 2013 when it expanded to syria that the group started to become known as i.s.i.s. >> charlie: they called themselves that. >> yes, before, they were call themselves the islamic state of iraq. >> charlie: right. and the leaders were furious at the time they weren't getting recognition as the islamic state of iraq. in the audio statements from

2006 to 2010 they're constantly compling and whining about not not getting the recognition. they didn't want to be known as al quaida. >> charlie: what do you think the risk is sneer. >> the risk is definitely greater to the region than also to the united states. i think that the emulation video puts it in perspective and i hope puts in perspective for a lot of arab pub licks and governments. they see this is really a threat to them more than it is to the united states. it was only beginning in september 2014 that the islamic state really began saying that it needs to attack the united states, and it's quoting bin laden that you should kill an american wherever you find them. this begins after our involvement, after our air campaign, and so do the beheadings of the american citizens those began after the

air campaign. >> charlie: meaning? meaning that one way to read their acts. >> charlie: this is the air campaign in iraq and syria against i.s.i.l? >> i'm talking about the air campaign in iraq that began in august and the one in syria that began in september. >> charlie: without that air campaign what might have been different? >> well, they might not have executed americans in the same way or at the same time, but what might not have been different is there wouldn't have been this call from one of the leader of the united states to attack western targets whenever you can and the call has been heeded in a lot of places. >> charlie: who made that call? >> abu muhammad al-adanni (phonetic), the spokesman who gives a lot of menacing audio statements. >> charlie: because

saudi arabia could afford this in a moment, what if they offered a reward of $10 billion? wouldn't you think somebody would step forward to say -- >> to give the location of the leaders? >> charlie: whatever information they had, yeah. >> actually, i hadn't thought of that idea but it's probably a pretty good idea. >> charlie: really... yeah. >> charlie: because somebody has to turn -- i mean what they did with al quaida and bin laden is they found the curia (phonetic). >> the leader of the islamic state state in iraq was killed because of a courier. >> charlie: what was his name. omar al-baghdadi. he was a much less of a speaker

than the present baghdady. the present bagbag present baghdadi is a teacher and preacher and written a book on islamic law and a book on recitation. he speaks compellingly. >> charlie: you've read his speeches? >> i've read all his speeches and everything he's -- >> charlie: tell me more about him. >> he's rumored to be about 40 years old. he was born -- where was he born? >> charlie: iraq. yeah, he was born in iraq. yeah, he's iraqi. he was born in samara, iraq, and he does his ph.d. in baghdad so this is where he gets the name baghdadi. it's not clear when he joined al quaida in iraq but he was one of the early leaders of the

islamic state of iraq, i was a a -- he was a jurist in the group. this is what the islamic state itself says about him. also in the biography that i've read of him it gives the lineage of the man all the way back to the prophet muhammad saying he is a decedent of the tribe, one of the requirements inning islamic law for being the kale off. >> charlie: how do you think this turns out? >> it's a long-term challenge. >> charlie: that's what the president said. >> i agree with him. >> charlie: is the goal -- does the goal simply have to be containing it or can it be eradicating it? >> i think that, you know eradicating it is awfully ambitious because, first of all, this is a group that's been around, as you said, as you

noted, for nine years. so i think that kind of containing it is the best thing that we can do. there are no good solutions. but the -- probably the best option is to limit our own personal involvement as the united states and so that the governments and the peoples of this region are forced to confront this group because this is really their problem and it's a threat to them and their societies, far more than it is to ours. >> charlie: and as soon as they recognize that, they may be able to turn it around. >> yes. >> charlie: and bring the full force of whatever they have. >> yes that's the hope. but it doesn't seem like something that's going to be -- it's not a recognition that will take hold overnight. >> charlie: the interesting question for me is -- and you are the student of this -- is does i.s.i.l or the islamic state for iraq and syria emerge as the principal jihaddest

organization opposed to -- >> al quaida? >> charlie: no, it absorbs al quaida in a sense. does it emerge as the single jihadist organization because it has more money, more adherence because it's more effective on the ground because it has a philosophy beyond just terror? does it emerge and present therefore, you know, a very different challenge? and does it have a kind of revolutionary zeal if not glamour in its strange, contorted, obscene way? >> i think that's right. it has sort of a colonial policy about its expansion, and the farther that it expands, and it's currently in a state of

expansion, the more that it will kind of define the jihadi movement as we have it today and will make al quaida completely irrelevant merely ancestral as to what we have as the jihadi movement today. >> charlie: it is the successive jihadi movement to most other -- >> right. i mean, the battle is being joined but it isn't over yet. al quaida in some places, particularly yemen, is a strong holdout against the expansion of the islamic state. >> charlie: and may be connected to the french attackers? >> right but what's interesting -- you bring up the french attackers -- is that one of al quaida's scholars, al quaida and arabian peninsula scholars in yemen who claimed credit for the group for the attacks in paris was also one of the biggest opponents of the islamic state and efforts to expand to yemen and this man was killed in a drone strike last week. so we've killed one of the greatest bulwarks to the

expansion of i.s.i.s. and yemen which is just to show a lot of our actions can have unintended consequences. >> charlie: what's the goal from the scholars and from al-baghdadi for i.s.i.l? >> from their perspective they've already created the islamic state and the challenge now is to expand it. in the way that they conceive it this is kind of a state to end all states. this is the only state that has any legitimacy in the world. it's sort of the utopia. you know, it's supposed to be, you know, driven by god. so the idea is simply to expand this and basically, for a series of events to ensue, once the group has taken over the world, that will usher in end times. this is also a large part of its propaganda. >> charlie: here's what

al-backer baghdadi said july, 2012. my dear muslim community as we did not lie against god when wa announced the islamic state, we do not lie against god when we say it will persist, it will persist upon its creed and its path and has not nor will ever substitute or abandon these. thank you for coming. >> thank you very much for having me. >> charlie: joseph califano is here, he served as lyndon johnson's top advisor for domestic affairs from 1965 to 1969. this role gave him a front row seat to a presidency that would shape america for generations. his 1991 book the try yum offand tragedy of lyndon johnson provide add personal account of his time with l.b.j. the book has been reissued to coincide with the 50th 50th anniversaries of the 1964 civil rights bill and 1965 civil

rights acts. i am pleased to have joe califano back at this table. welcome. >> nice to be here. >> charlie: i just quote from what you say. this is also as accurately as i can tell us the personal story of one of the most compelling and controversial and perhaps most complicated presidents this nation's ever seen. the study will analyze and debate lyndon johnson for decades to come. while we await their work i hope to provide what historian's say, a real-time perspective of presidents. it has been since you worked for him the controversy of vietnam, which is always going to be there. but there's also been bryan cranston on broadway. their senses, they're seemingly

in the span of history, a kind of looking back and reanalysis of lyndon johnson beyond vietnam. >> yes, i think vietnam will always cloud that presidency, but he changed this country dramatically and i think there is an appreciation of that now, whether it was education, 60% of the kids in college today are there on his grant and loan programs, whether it was health 60 or 70 million americans on medicare and another 60 million on medicaid whether it was the arts and humanities. charlie the corporation for public broadcasting, he proposed it in 1967 we passed it in six months. there are now what, 400 public television stations. >> charlie: you have a list in here i guess of the number of bills passed between the 88th 88th and 89th congress. >> it was incredible. he was phenomenal and he kept going even during tests. we had a great difficulty the

toughest, nastiest piece of legislation in terms of mail and anger was fair housing to let anybody live wherever they could afford to live. to get it out of the senate, we tried and tried. finally, he calls the michigan center phil hart, liberal, and says phil, take that bill to the floor right now. this week we'll get it passed. and we got the fair housing bill passed for the senate. it was things like that. even the tragedy, charlie, the greatest tragedy, the worst week was the week following when king was assassinated, we had riots in 100 cities, troops in more than half a dozen cities, it was awful. we met next morning with the black leaders and that afternoon the president said to me we're going to get something out of this tragedy. we're going to get our fair housing bill. we couldn't get it out of the house because seller, the

congressman from brooklyn, was in a district largely jewish and italian and all our traditional laws in those urban areas blacks were moving in and he didn't want it and wouldn't let it out of his judiciary committee. so johnson said we have to get it on the floor without going through seller. he writes a letter to the speaker, to majority leader jerry ford, a handwritten note, and gets the bill through the rules committee on to the floor seller never has to touch it, passes it and signs it. >> charlie: what was his genius? >> i think it was, one he knew what he wanted to do. you know, remember, in the 64 civil rights act when -- i wasn't there then, but the story, aids were saying don't send it up in january of '64 it's an election year wait. he said what the hell's the presidency for? send it up. and got it through. he had incredible concentration,

focus. i think, you know, back to teaching poor kids in cotula, texas, in the 1928-1929 school year, his driver and his cook used to talk about him to me and others and say, you know, when they'd drive from washington washington, d.c. to texas and the ranch, they'd have to go to toilet on the road, have to go to certain gas stations and couldn't get food in those places around he was determined to change that. >> charlie: that came from what he experienced growing up in the hill country of texas? >> i think so. remember, when johnson was elected to congress in 1938, there was no electricity in the hill country and there was no running water. now, think about that experience. and he carried that with him. you know, people said, well, you know when he was originally in the senate, he went along with a lot of the southern race issues, and he said -- i'll never forget

it -- he said, you know, i had a chance to change my mind when i knew i was wrong and i used it, and he said, joe, you ever have a chance to change your mind when you have been wrong you use it. >> charlie: bryan cranston portrayed him in getting the voting rights bill passed. was that essentially true, for those who saw that? >> well, yes, i think he really captured a lot of l.b.j. >> charlie: constant phone calls, constant pressuring, constantly using whatever leverage he had to get legislation that he thought was good for the country? >> he invented multi-tasking (laughter) sure, he had four or five things going on at the same time. he also -- you know he knew when to give hugs and kisses and he knew when to be tough. >> charlie: and he knew when to threaten. >> yeah he did know. i'll give you one example. a few liberals, at one point

said, because the war is so expensive, till we get out of the war, there isn't enough money for domestic programs like housing. one was the congressman from westchester and said to me, joe, you call them up, we have to turn them around. tell them we'll put the biggest damn public housing project he ever saw in the middle of that fancy westchester district. (laughter) we got his vote. sure, he knew that. he also loved -- i tell you he knew how to really get something. the great sculpture museum and garden in warrant, joe herzog, lady bird goes to connecticut, sees the beautiful sculpture and says, lyndon, we have to do this, he wants to give it to the united states, wants it to be in

a museum and wants it named after him. johnson said, okay. claiborne said, all the way back to the mayflower, wanted to name the smithsonian and he wouldn't back of claiborne says mr. president -- and johnson said claiborne, i don't care if he wants to call it the that, the only way people will see this is if he named it after the man. and we got the bill. >> charlie: when you look at the war tell me the impact it had on him because you seem struggling with it and yet, at the same time you see a man perhaps who is so insecure that

he couldn't -- he didn't want to be the first president who presided over the -- >> very complicated. also remember he used to say harry truman lost china to the communists, and that ended the fair deal. >> charlie: right. this war is not going to end the great society. so he was trying to do both the war and trying to do it in a way we were looking over our right shoulder at barry goldwater, guns and butter. it had an enormous impact on him. but, you know, even in that year, that last year 1968, we passed, as i mentioned, fair housing, the biggest housing program in the history of the countries and a host of other stuff. but he -- i think the war wore on him. i think when he the decided not to run in march of 1968, that there are a lot of reasons, but

he knew he was divisive on two issues -- race and the war. and, you know he said -- and i remember harry mcpherson, i had lunch with him a few days before he announced and decided. he said, you've got to run. why? you're the only one that can get anything done. he said congress and i have been lying in the same bed and rubbing up against each other 50 years now and there's no juice left between us. >> charlie: is that what he said? >> yeah, he -- and then he was determined to end the war on his watch. and remember he -- he was very close. when he pulled out he got the north vietnamese to the negotiating table. in the fall he said he was going to be able to -- and he was so determined to do it, then two things happened, the russians invaded czechoslovakia and the

nixon people went to the south vietnamese and said we'll get a better deal if nixon's president. so he ran into that. >> charlie: did he want to die after he went to texas? >> i think he was really depressed. you know but he was consumed with his last public appearance was when he released the civil rights papers, and his heart was very weak. >> charlie: because he'd had a severe heart attack. >> in 1955. i have a wonderful story about that. i must tell you. but he was walking up the steps he had toop a couple nitroglycerin pills to do it. he said, you know we still have a lot to do and we're going to make never now. not going to be never. >> charlie: they say he went back to smoking and -- >> he lit up on the plane ride

back to the ranch. but even, you know, charlie one other example even in the worst circumstances, he had that rough politician sense of humor. you know, you could always -- i would bring him after the king assassination i bring him message after message of hoover says this we need troops here there the governor wants troops. one night about three nights into it, i get a message and hoover says, stokely carmichael, the great black fire brand, is organizing a mob on the corner of 14th and u in washington to march on georgetown and burn it down. and johnson reads that message, and george township was where all the tv guys, all the columnists that were driving him crazy was, and he looks at that message and says dan, i waited 35 years for this night. (laughter) >> charlie: but back to do you

think he wanted to die when he went back or just sort of had given up and was depressed? >> i think he felt sorely that he never got credit for what he did. >> charlie: there was on sunday night "60 minutes" a piece about "selma," the movie, a and the director. and she talked about the question of lyndon johnson you know, and she said look, i was making a movie about the narrative of african-americans in selma and what they did, and that's the movie i wanted to make. you, on the other hand v and you spoke to this on other programs and have written about this, have basically objected to what lyndon johnson or how he was portrayed in that, rather than looking and having her not here to say what she was doing and what she wanted to portray. tell me about lyndon johnson and selma, just what you know. not about what the movie says but what you know. >> i know that in december of

1964 andrew young, the meeting between king and johnson neither of them knew about selma. andrew young was there but they were trying to think about the civil rights act. january 15, 1965, lyndon johnson calls dr. king , and the first part of that conversation, it's all on tape, it's history -- >> charlie: you can hear it? you can hear it. plug into the l.b.j. library and you can hear it. first they talk about black appointees and johnson says he's going to appoint the first negro cabinet officer. johnston said we'll get education and healthcare for your people. and then he says, he -- lyndon johnson -- says but, doctor, which is how he referred to king, is if we get them to vote, quilt take care of 70% of their

problems. king agrees. he was not just a minister. they're both very canny and committed politicians around king said, you know, in the south, the five states you lost in the election only 40% of the negroes had the vote. hardly had to tell that to johnson but he made the point. then johnson says, dr. king, you can make a contribution here. i want you to find the worst place in alabama, mississippi louisiana, south carolina, and where a negro has to recite the constitution or three amendments but the white doesn't have to do that in order to vote, and he said, you go down there, find it, get it in the pulpits, get it on television, get it on the broadcasts, get your leaders down there and repeat it and repeat it and repeat it so that the guy who does nothing but drive a tractor somewhere says,

it ain't fair. and when you talk about it, talk about it as everybody's right to vote. it's not just the negro's right to vote everybody who reaches a certain age in this country has a right to vote, and that will help me shove through what i'm going to shove through up here in washington. king came back february 9 and said selma, this is the place. and it was actually julian bond who organized selma when he was on the television talking about this a month or so ago he was in selma all throughout this, joined with king. there was the march, then the awful march when john lewis was beaten and the white minister was killed and johnson said okay -- he was appalled at that. he went to congress with that incredible speech -- you know, i speak for the destiny of man and the future of democracy, and he said, we shall overcome. and then he said, he wanted the

marchs protected. i was in the pentagon at that point. >> charlie: assistant to mcnamara. >> as bob mcnamara's ace assistant. my orders was the president is federalizing the alabama national guard. he summoned wallace to washington. and wallace spewed all the segregationist stuff out, and wallace said, you know i can't control what happens in the voting booths. and lyndon johnson said don't bull me george. you beat me pretty badly in alabama, you know what happens there. he said he couldn't protect the troops. he said if you can't protect the troops i will. federalize the national guard. i got reports almost hourly, a report every two hours to the white house. these reports are all available online, have been for years, of the marchs made, and this was the successful march that followed which ended up in montgomery with the flags waving

and people really cheering. i think not to recognize the level of that partnership in a sense diminishes king. king was an extraordinary guy. you know i knew king. i called him -- can let me give you a couple of examples. watts terrible, terrible riots in watts. just a week after we had the civil rights act passed -- we had the voting rights signed the president said to me call king, call whitney young, tell him please get to watts and help us or get his people to watts and help us. he did. we had riots in detroit in 1967 -- call king, call whitney young this black leader, that black leader, and they did! they did! >> charlie: roy wilkins and all of them.

>> roy wilkins and all them. the night king was killed, the president had me calling the black leaders and get them to the white house next day. he said, call dr. king's father and tell him we'll fly him up. i called dr. king's father and he said, i just can't i'm not up to it. i said the president had told me to tell you he wants god to bless you in this difficult time and dr. king's father said joe, tell the president god bless him he's going to need god's blessing more than anybody else. >> charlie: the idea of his legacy, are you satisfied that somehow that there has come today a reconsideration so that the domestic achievement is there and, when you look at the totality of a life, it is viewed

with as much weight as the criticism for vietnam is viewed, or not? >> that's a terrific question. i think that the domestic legacy will last forever, in the sense that 50 years from now, 75 years from when he died, these programs will still be in place, a lot of them. the war gets dimmer as people are away from it. i think that he'll never be free from the war. it's like a ball -- >> charlie: he shouldn't be. it's like a ball and chain. >> charlie: that's right. it's like a ball and chain. >> charlie: for better or worse. well, for better or worse. >> charlie: nor should president kennedy nor should president nixon. >> right. people forget thousands and thousands of people died in that

war under richard nixon. but look i do think that the one thing his programs will live. they're in every part of our life. the "washington post" said you can't imagine the country without them anymore. i do think that people will recognize that life is always a difficult thing, a mixed bag. that's the tragedy. you know the book as you know, is the triumph and tragedy of lyndon johnson. the tragedy is the war. the triumph is what he did for people at home. it's the great society. what he did for poverty. talking about the middle class, what he did for the middle class. >> charlie: what intrigues me most of all is what you saw first hand. it is the capacity to bend people's will for his own objectives, and how you do that is a study in human personality and it's a study in

understanding what it is that motivates men and women and how do you speak to that in way to have -- and that's an act of leadership. >> a wonderful little example, he wanted to put the first black on the federal reserve board. andrew bremer was an economist, harvard trained economist. russell long, the head of the senate finance committee was from los angeles. andrew bremer happened to have been born in louisiana. johnson, we have to get russell long's committee to approve them. the head of the federal reserve board didn't want another liberal, bill martin, very conservative financier, but johnson wanted another liberals because that would give him control of the federal reserve board so he goes with bremer. calls russell long over.

he's got a manila folder and says, russell, i have a candidate for the federal reserve board vacancy and he describes him and says, and he's from louisiana. russell says, louisiana? yeah, and i want you to introduce him to your committee. and russell says, absolutely, mr. president. johnson hands him the manila folder, russell long opens it and goes -- stuttering). he says, russell, you're a great man to do this. and russell says, all right mr. president. (laughter) it takes courage in one sense, but you're right -- he used to say men are moved by love and fear, a and you have to know the right mixture for each man. >> charlie: and that was his genius to be able to know exactly what each was and how much. >> that's right. >> charlie: to apply. that's right. >> charlie: the triumph and

tragedy of lyndon johnson. >> charlie: lynsey addario is here a pulitzer prize-winning war photographer and has documented human rights issues and the plight of women in the most difficult places on earth. in 2011, she was kidnapped with three colleagues in libya while covering the civil war. that inspired her to write her first memoir, called "it's what i do: a photographer's life of love and war." i'm pleased to have lynsey addario back at this table, welcome. >> thank you charlie. >> charlie: tell me about writing a memoir. why did you decide to do this? >> it was an interesting process. after we were released from captivity in libya i was approached by several literary agent and my first priority was to do a photobook. i've never done a buof of my

photographs soy really wanted to focus on that. i was meeting with them and we had all my photos set out on the table and got a memo two people i knew had been killed in libya in that meeting. i was overwhelmed with not only what i had been through but the loss of friend and silva lost his legs in afghanistan and it hit me in that moment. i said, i don't want to spend the next year looking at the photos of the last decade and i wanted to write. it was something i wanted to do and i was meeting with lilt rare agent and it seemed right. >> charlie: tell me to the moment where you're lying face down in libya and the soldier says shoot them shoot them. >> we had been covering the front line and it was shifting. >> charlie: you and tiler and anthony and steve. >> exactly, four of us. at that moment, it was

incredibly violent. i had been kidnapped before and it's always the initial moments in the kidnapping that are the most aggressive. and they sort of pulled everyone out of the car. i put my head in my lap and was trying to figure out what to do. there was a moment where i thought, i can make it go away. eventually i crawled over to the front seat of the car and to the right where my colleagues jumped out and started running across the street and eventually in that moment the rebels that we had been covering started shooting at gadhafi's troops and we were literally caught in a wall of bullets and we had to make a run for it and we ran to a small cement building that was off to the right, not very far away, but we had to get protection and when we got around the building, there were four or five of gadhafi's troops and they told us to lie down on our ground, on our stomachs. we knew what that meant. in the moment when you are asked

to lie down face down that means you will be executed. >> charlie: in the back of the head. >> yes, and they put their guns to us. i remember looking up into the gun barrel and saying, please don't shoot us. and i looked to my right and we each were doing the same thing. >> charlie: please don't shoot us. >> please don't shoot us. it was really a moment of just begging. luckily a commander walked over and said, you can't shoot them, they're american. and they decided not to execute us. that was something that anthony shadid who spoke arabic translated for us after the fact and instead, they tied us up and carried us off and placed us in vehicles on the front line in the middle of the battle and we had to sit there for hours on end while bullets and artillery everything landed around us. >> charlie: why did that do that? >> i think to scare us and play games with us. when you're captive, a lot of it is about instilling fear in the

people you're holding captive. >> charlie: you say moments like these force you to ask the obvious question, why do you risk your life. >> sure. i think every time i have been confronted with death i ask myself the question what the hell am i doing here? why am i in libya? why do i care about this particular story that i'm willing to give my life? i don't think there is an answer, certainly not in that moment because nothing seems to justify being there at that moment. but it is an answer that i believe this work has to be done and i believe that i have the tools to go to these places and tell these stories and bring it home for the reader in a way that's accessible. >> charlie: does it get easier? >> yeah, i think the more one covers more war the easier tots go back to war and, in fact, gets harder when you start pulling away from covering war. it's much harder to go back because it's almost like -- there were moments when i was

covering iraq, for example, when i was there in 2003 and 2004 pretty much all the time, and i felt much more comfortable in iraq than i did at home. i would go home and say, god, no one cares there's a war going on, and i didn't feel like i fit in. i felt most comfortable when i was in iraq with fellow journalists and iraqis and soldiers and covering the war. >> charlie: when you were there, what do you look for? >> i think situations present themselves, but i'm always very leery of photographing the same scenes that the audience or the reared has seen so -- or the reader has seen so many times before because i don't want to be in a situation of taking photos send them home and have the viewers say, i've seen this so many times before and turn the page without asking what's going on there. so i'm looking for quiet moments in the war or intimate moments,

moments that are unique, moments where people let their guard down. >> charlie: let's look at the photographs. kabul 2000, afghan women shielding their faces at the woman's hospital. >> so i first went to afghanistan when it was under taliban rule and i was living in india and i had a roommate at the time who said he had gone to afghanistan at the time, he was working for dow jones. he says, you're a woman, you should photograph women in afghanistan under the taliban. i said, okay, why not. as one does when they're 26 years old they don't think about anything, so i went in and lined up access through a small landline organization and i went to the woman's hospital because i knew as a woman i would have access to women in a way that men wouldn't and also it was a place the taliban couldn't or wouldn't go. so photography was illegal at that time. the taliban prohibited anyone from photographing any living

being. so i had to sneak around. a woman's hospital seemed like a very good place to do that and also the place to photograph the medical situation for women. >> charlie: does gender make a difference in photography in war zones? >> i think it does not make a difference on the front line. i think it does make a difference when i'm covering stories that have to do with women in the muslim world. so i do think, you know in islam, the genders are segregated so i'm often put with the women and have great access to the women so i'm able to photograph them in a way possibly my male colleagues cannot. >> charlie: next slide afghanistan, december 2001, taken during the fall of the taliban in kandahar. >> so we drove in there the day kandahar fell and we were some of the first journalists going. it was a big "new york times" convoy, almost a dozen "new york times" people.

i was terrified to get out of the car. i was sitting in the car with a "new york times" photographer. we pulled in front of the governor's mansion, a self-appointed gulag. >> charlie: right. and i remember rooking out the win -- looking out the window and there were all these big bearded men with rockets on their backs and looking at us, and it was not uncommon to see a woman with her face uncovered in kandahar. i looked at ruth and said, i'm terrified to get out. she jumped out and started shooting. i thought, i'm going to pretend i'm not scared. and i jumped out and started shooting. the men were sitting around with flowers, a lot had lost their legs and they had carnations, their legs off. it was very funny. >> charlie: the next is iraq 2003. >> this is the first time i had

been in any sort of attack. i had gone into northern iraq in late february, and i think this is mid march the u.s. started sending cruise missiles in northern iraq to hit a fundamentalist group al-ansar and this was right around that area. so a group of journalists went in a convoy and were waiting on a road where these villages were emptying out of civilians and we were standing on the side of the road interviewing people as they would come out of these villages. the locals were saying get out of here it's not safe, go, go, go. we said, okay we'll leave but as journalliveses linger a little bit and want to get a little more reporting we were sort of doing our final interviews and taking our final photos and suddenly i got this feeling in the pit of my stomach and i ran to our car shut the door, and a massive explosion went off, like, 20 yards behind

us and it had been a car bomb. >> charlie: next slide is iraq in 2003 as well. >> so shortly after -- >> charlie: these are bodies discovered in a mass grave. >> exactly. all the white sheets are filled with the remains of bodies. we found out there was a mass grave south of baghdad and it was several weeks after saddam hussein was deposed. we went to look at the mass grave. the initial scene i went to was the incredible landscape of the earth dug out and people walking around pulling plastic bags out of the ground and looking at the remnants and trying to identify the relatives through a bag of bones and shreds of clothing. it was the most unbelievably tragic scene. so we went to another building where they had moved some of these bodies and i walked in one of the rooms and here was this man leaning against the

wall just weeping. >> charlie: you were embedded with dexter, were you not? >> yes, we've done a lot together. >> charlie: there was a piece on the taliban? >> we spent a lot of time together in iraq and afghanistan, and then in 2009 he called me up and said -- i think it was 2008 -- no, it was -- it was 2008. he called me up and said, hey, i've got a great story for us. i said yeah? he said, it's on the talibanization of pakistan. my husband could hear him and said, what do you do, meet the taliban? i smartly don't answer my husband. dex says, i'll line up access and you come in, to. so the "new york times" lined me up to work with him. he spent a lot of time lining up access. the commander in the tribal area gave us permission to come.

the one thing they said the night before no matter what you do do not bring a woman. dexter and i said we're not separating, there's know of way we're separating. our translator was tormented because he said, you know, he said you can't bring a woman, we can't diso bay disobey him. we said, we won't be separated. he said, i know! you will be his wife and he can't leave you alone in the hotel room. we said, tell them whatever you want. i got dressed up. you couldn't see an ounce of my skin. we meet the commander. dexter and the translator get out first and ask for permission to bring dexter's wife in. i get led into the room and there are, like, 15, 20talibs sitting in this small room with their weapons everywhere and a woman walks in and 245eu sort of

just look like what on earth is a woman doing here? and i trip all over myself and i sit down and dexter says this is my wife. he doesn't look at me. he says, you know what? my wife has a camera do you mind if she takes photos? so i pull out this massive camera and took photos. >> charlie: you won a pulitzer prize for that? >> we were part of a team with the "new york times" to one a pulitzer in 2008 for afghanistan-pakistan and my pictures were supporting evidence in that package. >> charlie: what's the satisfaction for you? >> educating people and making them think twice about things they thought they understood, giving people a new perspective on war and what happens to civilians in war. >> charlie: is it getting much more dangerous? >> i think so. there are no rules with i.s.i.l. they don't have guidelines they go by and particularly for

journalists. i think i.s.i.l's madet very clear -- >> charlie: they behead them. they have no respect for journalists at all. we are seen as a dollar sign. we are strictly a way for them to make money. it's sad because journalism has always been respected. in fact, in 2004 i was kidnapped outside of fallujah by a group affiliated with al quaida and we convinced them we were journalists and there to do the honest job of telling the story of the war and they let us go. i think that speaks volumes. >> charlie: this book is called "it's what i do: a photographer's life of love and war." thank you. >> thank you so much. >> charlie: lynsey addario. for more about this program and other episodes, visit us online at pbs.org and charlierose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications

captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

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