>> rose: welcome to the program. we begin this evening with an appreciation and a remembrance of my colleague at cbs news, been bob simon who was killed last night in a car crash here in new york. >> in 40 days i just kept on discovering and not me bob simon but me human being, just discovering things i never knew about resources i never knew hi. >> rose: like what? >> like getting beaten up. and i realized that in a sort of strange way my mind would retreat and then come back. and my mind was sort of synchronized with the blows. and my mind was smarter than their sticks were. and it's tough to put into words but i knew, i knew it wouldn't break.

>> rose: we conclude theening with a conversation with the commissioner of the nba adam silver. >> i would say that's when the pivots i've made is being someone who ran the business side of the league for a long time sort of the mantra around the league right now is the game above all. meaning that we foe all these new platforms for exhibiting our games are fantastic, hd 4k, the ability to watch games on smart februaries and tablet its. but at the end of the day unless the game is compelling, fans aren't going to continue to watch it. >> remembering bob simon and a conversation with adam silver. when we continue. >> funding for charlie rose is provided by the following: >> rose: additional funding provided by:

>> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. mon was a friend and colleague at cbs news. he spent five decades as a correspondent earning every award journalism has to offer including 27 emmies and four peabody awards. bob was killed in a car crash in new york last night. he was 73. the executive producer of "60 minutes" called him a reporter's reporter driven by natural curiosity that took him all over the world covering every kind of story imaginable. there is no one else like bob simon. jeff had it right. earlier today on cbs this morning we reflected on his long and esteemed career as a colleague. >> as a globe-trotting

foreign correspondent bob simon cut a striking figure. his assignment thousands of them took him to far-flung corners of the earth but it all began in vietnam. >> we're going to pick up an american. all we foe about him is that he is fire base andrews and that he's been hit by schrep nell. >> a war simon covered for much of the 1970s he was on one of the last american helicopters out of saigon. >> president assad's tough statement warning israel against military intervention was not taken at face value in jerusalem. >> rose: sigh machine was named chief middle eastern correspondent in cbs in 1987 reporting on conflict in the region for over 20 years. he witnessed egyptian president anwar sad at a first visit to jerusalem. >> will miracles never see. >> rose: covered prime minister rabin's assassination. >> sadness beyond words. >> rose: and during the intefatah he and his crew captured a brutal beating of two plirn teens with the use

of a telephoto lens. it was a powerful image of the conflict. >> this seemed cold deliberate methodical it went on for 40 minutes. >> rose: never one to shy away from war zones simon covered the opening days of the gulf war in 1991. but he ended up being part of the story when iraqi forces captured him and his three-man crew. for 40 days they were imprisoned beaten starved and threatened with death. he spoke about it with ed bradley. >> has it changed you? opinions yes. >> how? >> i don't know, too early to tell. >> anyone who watched sigh machine's work on "60 minutes" and "60 minutes"2 knew his range as a reporter. his skill with storytelling and the grace of his words. >> before long the house became a makeshift conserve tore. he was the dean.

every room every corridor no matter how small or dark or stifling was teaming with sound. >> rose: he helped us understand the language of el fants. within these fathersome noises are actually elephants greeting one another. glad to see you. cole a little closer. and took us back to the nuclear call agoity at fukushima. >> the disaster seems to have stopped time. the clock shows 2:46, the moment of earthquake hit. and the damage to shops and homes looks like it could have happened yesterday. >> rose: he showed us the world through the eyes of sudan's lost boys. >> when they saw the villages burning they started running. streams of boys became rivers. hundreds became thousands until an exodus of biblical proportions was under way. >> and made us comprehend

the enormity of the massacre in sleb sleb. >> -- vb veb this is where the body are stored. a more fraction of the missing but more than anyplace on earth could handle. >> rose: through it all simon the winner of 27 emmies had a voice unlike anyone else. bob simon came to this table five times tlae as a guest and twice he sat in my chair as anchor. >> welcome to the broadcast. i'm bob simon of cbs news sitting in this evening for charlie rose. >> rose: in 1992 he spoke to me about the 40 days he spent as a hostage during the persian gulf war. >> it was a day that you got up that morning and turned into the most extraordinary of your life. and what was going through your mind and why were you off the reservation. >> what was going through my mind? not a whole legal hell of a lot. >> rose: it was not after a great pulitzer prize winning story. it was an ode day. >> it was a very routine day

in fact. and it took a lot of reflection later on to realize just what an ode day it was. and we were just, we were doing what we never convinced the iraqis we were doing. because they couldn't believe that journalists behave like that. they couldn't believe that western journalists just go off on their own. which we weren't supposed to do according to american press restrictions. >> rose: one of the reasons you were doing it. >> i think we what have done it anyway. i mean there was something going on. we wanted to check on what was going on up north. we would have done it. it was the place to go. the action was north. it just so happened that we weren't supposed to do it. and we did it anyway but even if we were allowed to do it, we still would have-- we weren't doing out of spite. >> rose: you were doing also doing it because the number of wars you covered you were clearly perturbed about the fact that there was some effort to restrict you from following where you thought the story lead to. >> perturbed not so much p

perturbed, it was obvious that there was a cat and post game going on. and they were the cat and we were the mice. and this mouse got caught, to the by the cat. and we had done it a few days earlier. it was-- as soon as the air war began all our suspicions about how the pentagon planned to manage the press i think were confirmed. and a few days earlier my colleagues and i went up the coastal road north, on the border between saudi arabia and kuwait. and we just happened to cross some things that just happened not to have been reported by the pentagon press pools. for example that a large saudi oil refinery was on fire because iraqi artillery had pummeled it. that an american marine unit was under fire and was hurting. and the marines weren't supposed to talk to us according to allied press reels because they were marines, they did. and also that some saudi defenders their tents were

empty. they just weren't there any more. and we brought that material back to the cbs bureau. and had what was in the context of that day a pretty good story. because nobody else will it. which was absolutely what, as you know, it is all about. and so we want back a couple of days later to just another part of the border. and it was that routine. we did one-story on friday. we were doing another on sunday. and the military traffic we passed as we were going from where the base was up to the border. the military traffic was a story in itself. and because we had never seen anything like it anywhere else ever it was as i wrote, i believe it wasn't a series of convoys, it was like one never ending convoy. and so we had quite a story in the can already. and then we just wanted to flesh it out a bit and just strolled across this border

when our lives changed. >> when did you know i mean that this was going to be as harrowing as it turned out to be? i mean there must have been a time for a while in which you thought this will be-- i will be able to convince them that i'm a member of the press and they will understand. they will let me go. they will not believe i'm a spy. the other end of this is the notion that you obviously expressed in the book. that you thought i could rot away in a prison as a long timer and never again see my family. my body will be dumped somewhere and they won't know where i am. in the beginning. >> it was much later this is what the book is about. the book is about the progress from thinking i was still a reporter who could sweet talk his way out of a tough situation which we have all done so many times before. to thinking that i was either going to get killed pretty quick or rot away in an iraqi prison for the rest of my life. >> rose: when did it switch? when did you realize -- >> there was one sudden switch. because in fact after the

initial bruskness of getting caught and pummeled around a bit, we were for the next several hours treated quite well. we were taken to a bunker outside kuwait. and introduced to some very civil sophisticated english-speaking iraqi officers who brought us tea and sympathy. and who were awfully nation nice fellows to chat to. this is when peter bluff my british colleague and pri convinced that we had been in stuff like this before. and it would take another couple of cups of tea cigarettes laughs and a couple of bad jokes. >> rose: and you would be on your way. >> that's right. but then a couple hours after that they were beating the-- excuse my tendency for the vernacular, but they were beating us up badly in another place. and that's when, of course the initial-- when they start beating you up badly you realize that the game is up. >> rose: and what goes through your mind? i mean take us there, as hard as it is, the feelings that you are going through. i mean what it is you know.

>> well, this is something i try to write about and it's-- difficult to explain. i try. but the most remarkable thing about getting beaten up badly and i thought it was just me but then i compared notes much later with other people who had experienced that other people who had been pows. and the remarkable thing that i experienced is that it's not as bad as i thought it would be. and i don't recommend it. it's not fun. but after a while i realized that i would get through it. and i just hope that they would leave my eyes alone and other parts. and it hurt like hell. but what this book is about is about the big surprise.

a series of surprises and what the surmises are is how incredibly adapted we are adapted and adaptable to deal with situations which we had never accepted. and in 40 days i just kept on discovering and not me bob simon but me human being just discovering things i never knew about resources i didn't know i had. >> like what. >> like getting beaten up. and i realized that in a sort of strange way my mind would retreat, and then come back. and my mind was-- was sort of synchronized with the blows. and my mind was smarter than their sticks were. and it's tough to put into words. but i knew i knew if wouldn't break. >> rose: did you find things about yourself that you liked that you didn't know were there? >> yeah, but again not so much as bob simon but as-- a

guy. just things that-- i meaned one thing you discover real quick is this implabling-- implacable will to survive that had nefern been put really to the test with me before. and driven by the love of your family. >> driven by-- i don't know -- >> i don't think so in fact. i think that might be sentimental. i think driven by this biological will to survive that is just more powerful than you can experience, that anyone does experience until they are really up against it. and then you just you know it's there. it's not like you have to do anything. it's there and it works. >> rose: worst moment was when? >> you know, i don't know. i'm asked that sometimes. but there were several worst-- there were a whole bunch of worst moments. certainly the first time they formally accused me of being a spy. that was something i could get through. what you are up against in an experience like this aren't bad moments like

getting spat upon or called dirty names. but stuff that-- tough that you know could either end your life or seriously crip tell. >> rose: roll tape. this is you in baghdad hotel right after you came back. >> i went through and i can't find the words for this because regret is not a strong enough word. might not be a strong enough word before-- the pain i know i caused pie loved ones i will try to make up for it in every way i can. and i thank gord-- god that the four of us are alive. >> rose: you really said to yourself how could i have done this to my family? how could i have put them through this? did you think about that

every day? >> oh sure. sure. when are you asked what the worst moment was t wasn't a moment but because it was constant and what that was was the idea that they were going to kill me. and i got to a point where i could deal with that in terms of their killing me. >> rose: how could you get to a point? >> you just do. what i never got to the point of accepting was the notion that what could very well happen was they were going to off me-- i knew that they didn't admit that they had us. so i could just be disappeared. and my family never would have known-- there wouldn't have been a body. there wouldn't have been a trace. >> rose: interesting, that is exactly what political prisoners say. it is, that is why they talk about human rights activities on their behalf makes a difference. they worry most of all i talked to a number of them from this and other broadcasts, nobody will know if they kill me. nobody knows i'm here. and no one will know if they take me somewhere. that's the ultimate fear. >> well what you are telling me is another example of this club we

belong to where, we're not aware of. but there is this-- sure you are going through this experience and others will say very similar things because yeah that was it. i mean i could just picture my wife and my daughter not knowing never knowing what had happened. and i had spent a lot of time over the years with the families of the missing from vietnam doing stories about them. and i know that this-- these are people who are haunted day in and day out. >> rose: how has it changed you in terms of coverage? you had on what looked like military khakies. >> yeah, well i mean, a year later if we can't laugh about it a bit there was to point in surviving. i will have to make sure to gefer never get captured again because that would be in very poor taste. >> rose: yes, but how -- >> i don't think an experience-- i don't think i have changed much. >> rose: does your wife think you've changed? >> no, not really. just as bad as i always was.

>> rose: that's right. unfortunately she says he didn't change. but i mean -- >> i mean you know, you go into this business because it's something about a big story that is more exciting than anything else. and sometimes a big story is a war and sometimes it's not. i still want to be where the big story is. >> rose: and you want to be in the middle east. >> sure. >> rose: good to have you 40 days by bob simon. pleasure. bob served as cbs news mideast correspondent and lived in israel for many years. he talked about the israeli-palestinian conflict and its affect on the people there in 2009. tell me what you did and what conclusions you have come to. >> well while the gaza theater was lit up our executive producer had the intelligent idea of sending us to the west bank which wasn't getting any attention at all. but the west bank is the main battlefront the main theater for the israeli-palestinian conflict. and when we were going there

to see is whether, in fact peace was possible or whether history had passed peace by. the solution for the west bank problem the west bank israel problem has always been or has been for many many decades now, a two-state solution. israel on one side palestine west bank on the other side. and the question was whether this is still possible or whether it's just inconceivable by now. >> rose: and you think what? >> i think history has passed it by. i think mainly because the israelis have sent so many settlers, so many jewish israeli settler to the west bank there are now close to 300,000 of them that removing these settlers which has to be done through-- . >> rose: politically not viable. >> is not politically viable. and is not militarily viable. the radical settlers are convinced that if the army would ever be september in to evacuate settlers, first

of all the government would fall within a day, which i think is probably true. and second, if the army wept in, so many of the soldiers now are religious guys that the army would break apart. >> rose: but would it have been-- and this is not fair and it is an unfair question and can't be answered. but nevertheless suppose it was prime minister rabin or prime minister sharon, a different answer? >> i was so sentimentally attached to prime minister rabin that i think that anything might have been possible with rabin which was why he was killed. >> rose: you used to live in tel aviv, did you not? >> yes. >> rose: so of all your friends in israel where you lived for how many years? >> oh, all together, more than ten. >> rose: so for all your friends there, if you would say to them would you say to them the building of the settlements in the west bank was a bad idea and not in your interest? >> they would say of course and change the topic of

conversation. >> rose: i don't understand. >> in places like tel aviv where-- just about every one is for peace and again settlements, the irony is when you go to a dinner party in tel aviv everything is discussed except politics. family, friend movies theater music everything. vacations tuscany. you name it. it's discussed. but not the politics of the situation. >> rose: because they're just tired of it or because they know there's no light at the end of the tunnel? >> because they're tired of it and because they're in a state of denial. they're living a very good life. life in tel aviv is a wonderful life. they don't want to be bothered with these questions that don't really have an answer. >> rose: one month after 9/11 he joined me again for a conversation about how that event had changed the world. >> i get very nervous when i hear the rhetoric of the washington about winning the war on terrorism about victory. i understand the need for

rhetoric in times like this. but i think it raises false expectations. i don't know of anyone who has won a war against terrorism. the israelis who are so much better equipped at this point to fight it than we are, who are perfectly prepared to use draconian measures which we haven't begun to imagine yet and have infiltrated every terrorist organization which fights them which bombs them they can't make it stop. there were 32 suicide bombers against israeli in the last year. the british have been trying to get it out of northern ireland now since 1969. no way. the french who systemically use torture to eliminate the liberation movement against french rule. >> rose: in algeria. >> in algeria in 1957. they won the battle of algiers by torturing everyone they caught and getting all the information they had. and they incidentally had a cell structure which is very similar to what we

understand al qaeda cell structure is they won the particular battle of all gears and a couple of years later the algerians rose again and the french left all gears. >> rose: then that becomes a question of what is an acceptable level of violence. >> indeed indeed. in israeli now it's not acceptable, and yet-- . >> rose: and yet because nobody can go into a restaurant without being fearful that somebody else is going to walk in there. is that what makes it-- this is unacceptable. >> but at the same time people do go to restaurants. the restaurants in tel aviv are packed because after a while this hasn't happened to us yet. we're still in a state of shock. but go to any city that is at war. and tel aviv is in a sense at war because they get hit beirut sar yeaho life lows on. 's not used to it yet. there is still a possibility. there's still a remote pont that this was a one-off shot. and now they'll go away. >> rose: remote and very remote. >> remote and very remote.

>> but if they continue i don't think we've even begun to imagine what we as a society and the administration will have to do will have to take on as measures to make it stop. we've never done stuff like that before. and we don't have any idea yet how it will transform us. the biggest danger is it pushes us into fascism. >> rose: bob simon is survived by his wife their daughter, who was working with her father the night he died. and her husband and their son jack bob simon's grandson. bob simon dead at 73. adam silver is here, the commissioner of the nba. he has had quite a busy first year after taking over for david stern the former commissioner last february. in april he imposed a life-time ban on former los angeles clippers owner donald sterling following sterling's racist remarks

caught on a recording. in august-- he bought the clippers for a record $2 billion. the franchise is worth 1.1 billion. that is 74% more than last year, according to forbes. all-star festivities return to new york this weekend. on saturday the barkley center in brooklyn will host events including the dunk contest and three-point shoot-out. on sunday the all-star game will be played at madison square garden. i'm pleased to have adam silver back at this table. welcome. >> thank you. >> rose: you were last here when you were getting ready to take over. it has been one hell of a ride. >> it has. it's been a chock full year. last i was here with david stern. we came on together. >> rose: yeah. just a brief to remember this i mean you-- you love the knicks. >> growing up. >> rose: growing up you loved the knicks. >> i still love them but i love all teams equally. >> rose: you were a lawyer then went to work for david.

why did you make the transition from law to a job at the nba? >> well i was practicing law in new york. >> rose: big new york firm. >> big new york firm and i was doing largely anti-trust and media cases. and i became fascinated with the media business. and hbo at the time was one of crevasse's largest clients. and while i was working on a lot of media matters i thought it would be much more interesting to be on the other side of the table in those cases rather than litigating. i wanted to be on the business side of media. and so i looked it to make a transition out of law. and david stern was somebody who my father had known. he had worked at the same law firm that my father had worked at. >> rose: the two worked together at the same law firm. >> precisely. i wrote david a letter among a lot of people. and said hello, i'm looking to make a transition from law into business. and so just to be clear i didn't set out wanting to work in sports necessarily. my attraction to the nba at the time was more about media. and david at that time this

is in the early '90s had recently done a deal with tnt which was a fledge ling network. there was a lot of discussion about how david was moving the nba into being a modern media business. and so again he was someone i wrote a letter, among many people. he was one of the people who actually called me. >> rose: but that's one of your sing ale chievements. under david's leadership what you did with respect to developing that aspect of the nba. >> rig t >> rose: nba.com or whatever they call it. >> no and-- we were an early adopter. we were the first league to form its own full-time network that was-- we actually launched nba.com tv show how much we knew back then. but that became nbatv. we have always had a major cable presence certainly our teams in their cities with their regional sports networks have a major presence. so the media business, so i went to the nba as a huge fan, as you said. i grew up a knick fan, grew

up going to a lot of games. but my greatest interest was going into business. and it happened to be that i was fortunate enough to end up working at the nba. and my early years at the nba were focused almost entirely on the business side it was only late their i morphed and started doing more on the basketball side. >> rose: i guess there was a point that he made you number two david did. and you knew you were a logical choice to replace him. you had a lot of learning experience at the same time. >> right. i ended up working directly for david. i started as his assistant special assistant to the commissioner. i had five prior jobs at the nba before becoming commissioner. the last job was deputy commissioner. although even when i became deputy commissioner it wasn't so clear at that point that i would become commissioner that it was-- there was a guy named russ grant who was the deputy commissioner before me. i worked with russ as well. russ had left and hadn't become the commissioner. but i think then david gave me the opportunity over the years to demonstrate that i

could-- i ran something called nba entertainment which was the media business. i ran the last collective bargaining negotiations. i got to know many of our owners and the other key constituents around the nba a lot better. our business partners started working more directly with the players association and specific players. >> rose: on the upside w what is the challenge for the nba. the internationalists clearly won. >> i think the upside is that we compete against enormous number of entertainment options. i mean it's sort of the way i started. i think the key is to keep the game interesting competitive attractive. i think if people have-- there are so many other ways like your show is competing for people's attention. we used to say we are competing against roughly a thousand channels on cable and sat light. now it's virtually unlimited because of the internet. i think we know every day we have to continue to earn our fans' respect and loyalty and willingness to spend their money with us. >> rose: so what are you doing to make sure you

maintain their loyalties. >> one of the things is to continue to be very focused on the game. i would say that is one of the pivots i've made. is being someone who ran the business side of the league for a long time sort of the mantra around the league right now is the game above all meaning that we know all these new platforms for exhibiting our games are fantastic hd, 4k. the ability to watch games on smart phones and tablets but at the end of the day unless the game is spelling fans aren't going to continue to watch it. so i think right now whether it's talking about the way we set our schedule the density of the schedule. you hear a lot of fans talking about, and players back-to-back games four games out of five night, we want to make sure we create a schedule and insurance the players are rested and competing at the highest level. we want to make sure our play-off format works so you end up with the best 16 teams in the play-offs. we want to make sure the way our games are produced is compelling. >> rose: how do you produce parody? >> it's a great question. because people ask me all the time especially in new york what are you going to

do about the knicks. are you concerned that the knicks aren't winning as many games as you would otherwise like them to be. the problem in sports unlike other businesses, is it's truly a zero sum game. it's-- i mean microsoft and apple can both be successful. in the case of the nba we have this exact same number of wins to give out every season. really when somebody says would you like the knicks to be better, the question is where should those wins come from. and for me parody from the league office means that every team has an equal ability based on their management to compete for championships. >> rose: based on their management. >> based on their management. not based on how wealthy the owner is or based on the additional revenues that large markets might generate. i mean historically without a salary cap system, for example either because an owner is willing to lose and credible amounts of money in order to win or because an owner is still in a profitable fashion has a lot more to invest in the team. because let's say it's new

york. it's a much larger media market. so the knicks local television deal generates far more revenue. they sell the tickets for a higher price. what we did in the last collective bargaining agreement. it's not a hard cap system like the nfl had. that is true parody in a way. to me it's as of the sport as the system. if there is any given sunday notion in the nfl. in the nba we have a softer cap but in the last collective bargaining agreement we created a system where i think we've gone a lot further towards creating competitive parody. meaning that-- it was hard i think, even if you and i because i know you are a big basketball fan. if we took playing cards of the 450 players in the league and said 30 teams let's try to create real parody. i think it would be difficult in any given season because basketball is such an interesting sport of individual and team effort. and an individual can be so dom tenant. his team is likely to make the play-offs, when kobe and

his prime obviously michael tim duncan other great players. >> rose: in all of those places they generally needed one other player. >> and that's where the management comes in too. but even if they need one other or you need two. if you have three superstars just like the miami heat did you still need an important cast of characters, that is what makes what greg popovich and rc buford what makes what they did in san antonio so special, because you see truly team basketball. but i guess my point is that even if we dis-- dispersed all the players it would be hard to create that any given sunday notion in the nba. on the other hand what you want is every team to have a chance to get the great players. for example, if we didn't have a salary cap if new york by virtue of their additional revenues i'm sure knick fans would love this could just outbid all the other teams for a star player. and it's not a perfect corelation but just like in baseball, there is no doubt there is a corelation between payroll and success on the field it is the same issue on the court.

>> rose: basketball is interesting because on the one hand you have oklahoma. >> another great example. >> rose: right. >> a very small market that you know, they have kevin durant, they got him through the draft. russell westbrook, smart drafting there. they actually end up unfortunately h to trade james hardin because-- because it's a small market. and this is where the system is a little unfair ownership there didn't feel they could go into the luxury tax because it would have put them in such an unprofitable position. so from that standpoint even in our cap system because it's a soft cap, i think ownership in oklahoma city would say they're at a bit of a disadvantage to los angeles chicago or new york. but again from the league office standpoint when they move james hardin, fantastic player maybe could even be the mvp this season. >> rose: leading scorer so far. >> right. on the houston rockets. they have a terrific team. they have dwight howard who is injured at the moment. but also a superstar player or certainly has been a

superstar over the course of his career. so from a league standpoint that creates more parody. that oklahoma city's loss but houston's gain. >> rose: the idea of having the team with the worst record having a better draft choice, not necessarily the best, right. >> right. >> rose: i mean if you see a team that's lossing a lot do you assume that they may be happy they're losing. i'm trying to say this the right way. >> no i understand. you're not using the dreaded t word. we call it rebuilding at the league office. but i think look so first of all on that point. >> rose: tanking the -- >> yes, yes. and so a lot ree was instituted in our league to disincentivize teams from having-- wanting-- desiring the worst record. >> rose: so it wouldn't be automatic. >> so it wouldn't be automatic. >> rose: is steve ballmer the perfect owner for you? he loves the game. he's invested in the game. he cares about the game. he loves his team. that sounds to me like that

is the kind of guy-- it's not like he needs it as an ego. >> right. >> rose: he needs it because he loves it. >> i would say yes, to your question. he's the perfect owner. he is someone that we have been talking to for a long time. >> rose: because he had been thinking about thinking about it. >> before the clippers became available. he looked before the sonics moved from seattle. he explored buying the team. i think at that point in his life as the c.e.o. of a public company microsoft he knew he couldn't invest the appropriate amount of time. when sack are-- sack are mento almost moved to seattle he was part of that group seeking to acquire the team. and then when he stepped down i think one of the first meeting i had as commissioner with the nba was steve t was shortly after he stepped down as c.e.o. of microsoft not knowing, neither one of us ever thought the clippers were going to be offered for sale a few months later. but he came. he met in new york. he said i would love to own an nba team, what teams potentially are for sale. i think steve sat there with a map of seattle and took

one of those old-fashioned come passes and went like this and said i'm willing to go about three hours on my plane, not any further. and he explored some other teams. he called some other owners to see if they were willing to sell. and then when it became clear that the sterlings were going to sell the clippers we spoke. he then engaged directly with shelly sterling and bought the team. but yes he's the absolute perfect owner. >> rose: i will come to that crisis in a moment. but at the same time, does what he paid for the clippers, you know set a new standard as to what the value of franchises are? >> well you began the show by talking about the recent forbes with the average value went up 74%. so i think it did. but i think it's a combination of a lot of things. one ultimately it's a market and there are buyers and sellers so that is going to determine price. but i think he understood the value of media. this is somebody just like how i got into the sports business, talk about coming from the media technology sector, of course there is steve ballmer who made all that great wealth at

microsoft. when he came in you know we had a lot of discussions he had been helpful to me as a sounding board. we recently renewed our u.s. television deal. he understands the media business as well as anyone in the world. i think he saw the value of this prime live sports content and a world of fragmented media opportunities as something that really is almost always consumed live. you know and he realized that the values would only increase. so i think while ultimately he bid against others, he understood the intrinsic value. >> rose: -- he had incentive and i think it is one of those things too where he recognized that especially when it comes to an l.a. franchise that may be a once in a generation opportunity to buy a franchise in l.a. or new york. >> rose: an a good team. >> it was a great team great leadership in doc rivers and chris paul. and the opportunity came where i was at that moment in his life where he had the

resources. and by the way, to say that to your point of him being an owner. he has really invested himself in it as well. even though his principal resident-- residence is in seattle. he is at every home game, directly involved in the management of the team. and he's a great resource to me as part of our board. >> rose: the donald sterling case. >> effective immediately i am banning mr. sterling for life from any association with the clippers organization or the nba. >> rose: how did you see what you had to do? what were the principleses that were guiding you in making hard decisions? >> i tell you one i begin with the fact that i had been with the league so long that those principleses were intrinsic to me and the league office that i mean in terms of fairness in terms of a level playing field for all players all

people a nondiscriminatory environment in the league. i think those were the core principleses. and that had been passed down to me not just by david but bill russell was still part of our league. oscar robertson is still part of our league, kareem abdul jabbar are still part of our league. our babe ruths are still around. their colleagues. >> rose: magic, michael. you go on and on. >> younger guys. those were the fundamental principleses at work here. and i think then from a process standpoint, i think what this all happened over such a fast few days for me. that-- that the tape the audiotape of donald sterling's conversation came out late, very late on a friday night. >> rose: how did you get to hear it. >> i got to hear it like everyone else did. i woke up on a saturday morning and had a bunch of e-mails from people sending me the link saying have you heard this yet. i listened to it. somewhat in shock, same way everyone else did wondering-- i

have known donald sterling for over two decades. sounds like him not positive it is him. hadn't talked to him yet or any of his representatives. but you know and then this is where social media has truly changed the world. and the internet has disrupted every industry. roughly ten million people heard that recording in the first 24 hours deadspin tmz had quickly got e-mailed to everyone around the internet. we did our investigation in the next two days. determined it was him. he acknowledged it was him. first there was a question about could the tape have been altered or doctored in some way. he acknowledged it hadn't been. but then i think i knew what was necessary in terms of protecting the league and the values that we stood for. >> rose: the decision you made was? >> the decision i made was to ban mr. sterling from the league, for life from the league. and i felt that under the circumstances that was necessary. and i would say it's not a decision i took

slightly-- lightly at although it happened quickly. and you know again for me i mean especially because i had known him for a long time. and you know i'm always mindful. i'm a lawyer by training. the fact it had begun as a private conversation. would i want to be held to that standard the fact that people you know often you know make mistakes in life. i thought that this was not a mistake that we could count in any way. that you know, and it was-- my decision based on part -- >> on his-- i didn't base my decision on past conduct of his. and i-- . >> rose: this was enough. >> this was enough. and i think part of the process was the interview that we had done with him. his reaction to it. >> rose: how did you define i have to make sure i do this because if i don't i will use credibility. i'll seem not strong. i have to be the voice of the league at this point. i have to be-- i'm now in charge of the credibility of

this league. that responsibility is on my shoulders. >> well i would like to think initially that it was less about me. and i don't think i thought well how will i look as commissioner. i felt it was my obligation to protect an institution that had existed long before me and hopefully will exist long after me. i mean as michael jordan, i talked to a lot of owners. and of course michael-- charlotte horne and i remember michael jordan of all people this was-- i wanted-- i didn't ask people any of the owners necessarily what i should do. i don't even think i presented the range of options. i just wanted to get from them their reaction to see whether i was overreacting what their sense was. i remember michael jordan said to me, of all players of all people the league is bigger than any one individual. and i think it's very much the case. >> rose: from one of the league's biggest individuals. >> i wasn't think of it all that i won't look strong if i don't-- i was thinking i

have to protect the institution. and then the real issue of the players potentially boycotting our games. i don't think it was just threats coming from the players. there was pressure being placed on the players from a lot of outside groups. including the clippers before i made my decision. i happened to be on a preplanned trip out to san francisco the day after this happened. i was at their game on the sunday this tape came out on a saturday. and before we even knew the facts. before we were even sure it was done ald i spoke to doc rivers. i spoke to chris paul. they were being pressured to boycott their very own game. they said how unfair is it to us. no one knows the fact yet. i knew they were looking to the league office because they needed the ability to say appropriately so we need to focus on the game this is the league's obligation. but if i hadn't taken strong action, i think there could have been real you know potential boycotts and then there were, the partners of the league. i mean whether it was the disney company which of

course owns abc and espn. time warner or tnt our network our various sponsors and licensees. they were all being threatened as well. and they were calling me, not just because of pressure but they were putting pressure on me saying what kind of league is this. what are the values that this league ultimately stands for. all of that had a huge influence on my decision. >> you have watched i'm sure with a learning eye what happened to the nfl and domestic violence. how do you look at this issue for your league? >> i look at it as an incredibly serious issue for all leagues for all industries. >> but you are responsible. >> i'm ultimately responsible. look, i learned from what other people go through. >> rose: what did you learn? >> you know what i learned more from a process standpoint that i think that even in the nba and so-called old days we used to sit back and wait for the criminal just cities testimony to run-- system to

run its course. when kobe bryant was indicted and ultimately the case was dismissed. it never went to trial. it the case was dismissed before it went to trial. but that was roughly ten years ago or so. and then even though he had been indicted of a felony that david's reaction and this was the standard of the leagues at that time was innocent until proven guilty. and kobe was indicted and was an active player during that period there were games when he had just come ba from hearings at the court in colorado. i think the standard has changed now. i think if we were to have a player accused of a crime certainly indicted of a crime my sense is now that the league would need to conduct its own investigation. which is not a comfortable place to be. because also as someone who used to practice law, at the same time i want to be very protective of the due process rights of the accused whether that's a player or an executive an owner, anyone involved. and our league.

>> the life of a player. >> the wife of a player. i think the issue here is that often a good any criminal defense lawyer when his or her client was facing potentially incarceration is going to tell that client you can't waive your fifth amendment rights by speaking to the league office. so then the question becomes for the league by what standard would we potentially suspend a player who had only been accused of a crime. i would just say take the hypothetical where there is a player who has been accused of a crime and let's say it's a case where there are witnesses but there's no video evidence. and then so the league is in a position potentially making credibility determination. a witness says this happened. player let's he say hypothetically says not true. then there is a case where there is video. if there were to be video like in the ray rice case, is that enough for the league and we just say but then on the other hand, what if the player were to say that is not what happened.

somebody has altered the video in some way or it is a misleading camera angle. i think those are all areas that modern leagues now have to deal you know that's our new world. >> what's the status of your labor negotiations and your labor contract and you know because obviously we all read how you're making more and more money from your television contracts. and if i was a player i would want to say i certainly hope i'm participating in this mr. commissioner. >> my answer to the players would be the design of our collective bargaining agreement is a revenue sharing system. in fact 245 is the salary cap we were talking about before. is determined essentially by taking 50 or 51% of the revenue, it is a sliding formula for the players and dividing that number by 30. there is a lot of nuance to it but that is how our salary cap is determined. for every additional dollar that the league demonstrates, not profit but for any gross dollar that we generate, the players get roughly 50% of

that color. -- dollar, so when we get a new tv deal and the revenue goes up, players get their share of that. so our status and collective bargaining is we're in the mid-- midst of a ten year deal now. but both sides have the opportunity to opt out of it after six years. we're in the fourth year now. of that ten-year collective bargaining agreement. so presumably the union and the league will you know examine where we are at the appropriate time and decide whether it's worth going back to the negotiating table. i would like to say that this agreement, this current agreement which is hard fought by both sides and required a lot of compromise seems to be operating as it was intended. >> rose: there's also this. in the midof the all-star game. what does all-star weekend become. >> you know, i would say it's become a sort of a basketball spectacular you know. it's not-- it's an entertainment event it is

intended as that. i hear the criticism from people who say the all-star saturday night events aren't real basketball. you're glorifying dunking or just shooting and not over all team skill. i hear that the game itself players aren't playing defense. i would say for us it's an opportunity to celebrate the game. and i think for new yorkers for the next several days going into the weekend you know, you can feel the buzz in town. i think we're expected about 200,000 people to come to down, many of whom won't have tickets to the events but just want to have tickets. we have something called nba house in new york where you just come and you can experience the game and memorabilia. we have 150 legends coming to town. all those great players we mentioned before. bill russell oscar kareem abdul-jabbar, dr. j they will all be here. so for us it just becomes the epicentre of the basketball world. >> it is a celebration of we are, what we are and the love of the game. >> yeah. >> rose: drug testing and

you know, what steroids has done in baseball, is this an issue for you? >> i hope not. we test, we have an agreement with our players association where we test for steroids. we test for other performance-enhancing drugs. we try to keep up with whatever the latest standard is. and that's something we are constantly discussing with our union. there is not a sense that it historically has been an issue in our game. i think, i don't want to be naive about it but the psychology of it is such in the sport of basketball that there is not a sense that players greatly benefit from doing it. but at the same time you know, we want to have a strong system so no player ever feels that they're losing out somehow that other players have an edge because they're doing something. i think that is what you always have to be careful of. you have to protect the players for having those strong brug programs so-- drug programs so there is never a sense of i am not

doing something. i'm at a disadvantage. we have strong tests but we have not historically had an issue in our league. >> is basketball popular enough internationally today for there to be an asian league and a european league? just for example. >> i think the answer is it's popular enough. i don't think the economics are there to do that. i mean at least they are run by the nba. i mean for example china is now our second biggest market outside of the united states. >> rose: biggest tv market. >> biggest television market biggest merchandising market. number two market period. estimated $300 million people now play basketball in china. it's the number one sport in china. they have a domest-- dom esic league called the chinese basketball association. yao ming of the houston rockets owns the shanghai franchise called the shanghai sharks. that league is in the process of growing and developing, you know the nba assists in various ways in helping with grass roots

basketball and school programs in china. i don't conceivably see a way in which we could operate nba franchises in china. europe, on the other hand something that david stern talked about for years something that we considered and that is potentially we could see a division in europe. we're not quite there yet. and if we were to do it we would do it with multiple franchises. >> rose: finally changing the game which you mentioned earlier on. what are the possibility ways you can change the game? >> i think we made a fair number of changes over the last decade. i know are you a huge basketball fan and you notice the game is more offensive-minded now in that there was a period especially for those long long-- knick stands fans where the game bain and pat reilly he took advantage of the rules, it was a more physical game more pounding under the basket and there was a premium on frankly just big strong guys, you know and think charles oakley anthony mason.

and i think what the rule changes over the years there was a committee lead by jeery coangelo without said the game had gotten away from us and all the beautiful aspects of the game that you just talked about were being that warded somehow by heuer might. and so what we are seeing now, you have the ability take the golden state warriors curie your beloved north carolina, the number one vote-getter in the-- for the nba all-stars. not an overwhelmingly large person. doesn't overpower players by physical force but one of probably one of the great sheerts in all time nba history clay thompson his teammate, you know little bigger than steph is but not all about power and might but pure skill. that is the direction we want to see the league go. there is always going to be a place for big men in this league and big men in many ways continue to be dominant when they are highly skilled. but we want them at the same time to be highly skilled. so as i said before, i think the real improvement in the

game over the next several years can come by the league office doing a better job scheduling, providing appropriate rest for the players focusing on appropriate rehabilitation when players get injured preventing injuries so that our best players can always be playing beyond the court and playing at the top of their game. >> rose: i love the game, it is a pleasure to have you here. >> thank you so much. >> rose: for more about this program and earlier episodes visit us on-line at pbs.org and charlie rose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

was produced in high definition. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> and their buns are something i have yet to find anywhere else. ♪ >> i'm not inviting you to my house for dinner. >> breaded and fried and gooey and lovely. >> in the words of arnold schwarzenegger i'll be back. ♪ ♪ joo you've heard of a connoisseur, i'm a common sewer. >> you had