is. >> rose: welcome to the program. tonight a conversation with one of the world's greatest actors al pacino. >> it's a form of speaking acting am when i first started, i think what kept me an actor was when i realized that i could speak through this-- through this venue am and that i could speak about things this life that i couldn't speak about before. i just didn't know how. i couldn't find the words. but the playwright allowed me to express something. >> rose: al pacino for the hour next. >> funding for charlie rose is provided by the following: >> rose: additional funding provided by:

>> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> al pacino is here. he is an oscar tony and emmy award-winning actor lee straussberg the long time director of the acker's stud why once said of him. some actors play characters. al pacino becomes them. here a look at just some of his work. >> i needed it. >> i take you back and you steel my -- >> i was going to go out and score for you. >> i love you. >> if you love me -- >> i was going to did out and score for you. >> reality is that we do not wash our own laundry.

it just gets dirtier. i don't care if i'm in trouble. i don't care without et gos it any more including myself. because if i have to go to outside agencies-- to get somebody to hear my story where in i going to go. where am i going to go? >> i know it was you alfredo. you broke my heart. you broke my heart. >> get over there will you? you want to kill me so bad he can taste it. >> do you want to play rough? say hello to my little friend. >> you want to learn the first rule you would know if you ever spent a day in your life. you never open your mouth

till you know what the shot is. >> there was a time i could see and i have seen. boys like thesing younger than these their arms torn out, their legs ripped off. but there is nothing like the sight of an amputated spirit. there is no prosthetic for that. >> if it's between you and some poor bastard whose life you're-- wife you're going to turn into a window,-- widow brother, are you going down. >> this guy is a top scientist in the number three to be tobacco company in america. he's a corporate officer. you never get whistle-blowers from fortune 500 companies. this guy is the ultimate insider. he's got something to say. he wants to say t i want it on "60 minutes". >> you may call it mercy killing. i call it something else. i call it a medical service for an incureably suffering

patient. that's what i call it. >> over the years many of his contemporaries have spoken about him on this show. >> it is almost impossible almost impossible for him to do anything false. he doesn't know how to. the lines will go. he won't be able to get out of a chair. there's a line of truth in it. that's inviolet. and where you really see it to it's magazine any sense in the godfather. >> he knows where the camera is every mark every hit he hits the mark. never fails. you know. he knows what-- the cutting the editing. and then within that very structured form which film is very you know very tight, he is utterly free and it's just so inspiring to be around. >> rose: pacino has also inspired a younger

generation of actors. >> i am a shy person am and i used to be really self-conscious and insecure and had david like really-- had difficulty really standing up and speaking for my is of. and he is a great cheerleader. my very first audition, my callback that he was at i just started reading from the play. and as i was acting i could hear oh wow. oh my god. like i could hear him in the audience saying all these things that made me feel like yes! i'm doing great. and working with him on that play and making-- it was my first povie. still has if the come out making that movie he's been such a great teacher for me for film. >> i'm watching pacino i'm watching pacino in the sense of when i first met him i was a little in awe of him because i had to go meet him at shutters on the beach.

>> a hotel in santa monica. >> it was someplacement and as i walked in i said i'm getting ready to go meet scar father. i ran them together i was so nervous. he was sitting under the dim light in the corner. and people came as if they were giving like giving a sacrifice, mr. foxx mr. pacino. >> an honor. >> and the walk was like oh, man an when i get there shall like godfather and scar face scar father it was all put together. and i said mr. pacino hi i'm jamie foxx. >> hey, you like cran berry juice. i was like cran berry juice? he just opened up and made me feel comfortable as a person. >> this past january pacino starred in a film adaptation of philip roth's novel the humling. >> hello! >> oh hey. look at this! >> this sell ily. >> emily.

>> beauty, let me take that. >> thank you. >> oh, oh oh my god. are you hurt? are you okay? >> yeah,. >> oh no look at what happened to him. >> what's this-- here. >> some of my things. some of my things. >> you know i was thinking don't you think it's time you told your parents about us? >> in a film just released called danny collins pacino plays an aging rock star who receives a letter from john lennon and decides to change his life. >> hello l.a.! >> you got to choose your-- danny. >> surprise? >> oh, no way. >> you don't surprise a guy pie age. you'll give me a heart attack. >> do you remember an interview when you were a kid, "time" magazine. >> you write like lennon man. >> john lennon read it.

and he wrote you a letter in 1971. >> can you believe it! dude danny collins stay true to yourself stay true to your music. my phone number is below. we can discuss this. >> i'm a joke. i haven't written a song in 30 years. >> i'm having a breakdown. i'm broken. ain't fog left to break. what would have happened if i got that letter when i was supposed to. i want to cancel the rest of the tour. >> i need a plane. jersey. >> welcome to the hilton. look who it is. >> i see. so you're staying indefinitely here? >> are you on drugs. >> currently or in general. >> currently. >> nope. dinner? >> you're asking me to dinner. >> i think so. >> i'm going to have to decline. >> you're not a fan. >> currently or in general. >> in general. >> no. >> but we have got matter. why new jersey? >> i'm meeting someone for the first time. how do i look? >> well, you look slightly ridiculous. >> nah.

>> see you at 7:00. >> no, you won't. you expect it to be easy meeting your grown son for the first time. >> hello. >> hello. >> why are you here? >> i'm just making some changes if my life. >> in a few minutes my husband is going to walk through that door and this will be the last time i ever see you. >> you have every right to be angry. >> i don't care enough to be angry, okay. so nice to meet you have a good life. >> family can be messy. but you shouldn't give up. >> i agree. see you tomorrow? >> good night danny. >> i haven't written anything in a long time. >> you're nervous. >> yes. >> i love that. >> i spent my entire life trying to become the man that you aren't. >> i don't know what to say. >> i don't need to you say anything, man. i just need to you leave. >> you're going to have to deal with it because i'm here. ♪ well we all shine on ♪ ♪ like the moon and the stars and the sun ♪ ♪. >> you can't buy redemption. >> see you tomorrow? >> you know what i like about you, you never give up. >> some dinners are worth

fighting for. >> that we all shine on ♪ ♪ on and on and on ♪ ♪. >> rose: danny collins terrific cast. >> never saw that. yeah what a cast. >> rose: when you see that montage what do you think about this career and acting that you have had and continue to have? >> it baffles me. it's you know you spend your life just moving on you know. it's one of the-- one of the perks but also one of the issues you have when you are with a group of people and are you with them and you are in a company. and you know we all sort of feel that way. actors they're transient you know. >> rose: somebody once said gypsies ackers are gypsies. >> they are. they have that in their spirit. so when i look at things i've done before, there is a certain mercifully, there is a distance you have.

and you look at it and say it's all part of if you want to call it development or you want to even call did it --. >> i remember kaz am they had a special evening for kazal and they showed all the povies he did. he got up on the stage and he said wow how am i still walking around. how did this happen. >> yes. >> i remember once they did one for me actually. and i went up there and i thought there's no rehab in this-- where is the time i was in rehab. i never was in rehab you know. >> rose: but the question posed in john lennon's letter and danny collins stay true to your zchl you have stayed true to yourself for the post part haven't you sm. >> well you know i guess so here and there. i veered off i think. i don't know. i donlted make those kind of-- i don't-- i done think of myself as that at all that

i'm being true to myself. i can feel when i'm not. i can feel that i've gone off the track. >> rose: in your personal life or in the performance? >> in both. more in the performance than personal life. personal life is a little bit too random for me in the way, in how i mean i'm playing characters who have lived these lives around the world and stuff. and gone through you know the accessibility of things in our life in our world you know. that you travel in. >> rose: do you keep saying yes to parts? i mean you've got these two movies coming out and others. you keep saying yes and yet the questions when i see him making a movie i want to walk the other way. >> that's true, i do. i think i've gotten out of something when i am finished with it. when i see i'm on the street and i see people with the campers and they've got the wires on the floor and the cameras i just-- i just go to the other side. because i feel as though, i know what they're going

through. i know the-- it's different when you director a movie because are you in every part of it. and it's also different for an actors who you prepare for a movie. because there's the rehearsal period which we don't have enough of in film today. but the old movies early on movies i did in the '70s we had really a substantial rehearsal period. to develop characters and relationships with other ackers. and here you are just-- so in this movie we had no rehearsal in danny collins. so we would pete-- . >> rose: because of the budget. >> yeah, that's what it is. that's the budget. is the budget is what we're always facing. and we would rehearse at my house on weekends to get what we could. because it's-- . >> rose: but why do you do it? because you love it? because it is who you are? it is-- i once said to a

fighter i-- why do you do it? you've made all the money in the world. you have a great family. you have all the things that anybody would aspire to. international things. and you said charlie it's what i do. >> uh-huh. >> rose: it's what i do. >> yeah. >> rose: i'm a fighter. and you would say i am-- i'm an acker. it's what i do. >> it's funny. you have the text. you see i live by the text. the play is the thing and when i see that text i don't want to act, for instance i don't want to do it i mean i don't want to -- >> you don't need to be in movies. >> i don't need it. i doll thnt think i need it knoll i read it and then you know, and of course the process and it's ever changing because you know there's a time when you want to do something because it challenges you. and you feel will learn something from it so you do it and you can fall flat on

your face. the results of that. but mostly you're trying to evaluate things in your life. and deal with the very-- i have children and things. things come up. but at the same time that script you know i read a script the other day. i won't say what it is. but i hadn't read anything. and oh they pull me back in kind of thing. >> rose: because you think about where i could do with this character, you think about the excitement of getting inside of the character. >> yeah, it's the world a writer creates. it's the text. it's oh what an opportunity. i have an opportunity to do this again. or for the first time. and there's something about the homelessness thing is what i do like you said it's almost an obligation to get involved in it i feel. >> rose: that this is for you. i can-- as they say in business add value to this. >> yes. or i can find something in a

thing that i'm doing that relates to something inside of me that i've been wanting to express or talk about in some way. it's a form of speaking to acting. when i first started, i think what kept me an actor was when i realized that i could speak through this venue. and that i could speak about things in life that i couldn't speak about before. i just didn't know how. i couldn't find the words. but the playwright allowed me to express something. >> rose: the coming together of the actor and the text. the actor and the words give you the possibility to make it something bigger than even the writer intended. >> that's right. >> rose: that's what an actor adds. >> and to move on from a life you know to awe life you may not know and find out about it and get a sense that you're involved in something that is-- that's

bigger than your life. the humling philip roth 12009 novel. you liked it. >> i liked it yes. >> rose: what attracted you to it in terms of as an acker did you see there things that you have thought about, things that -- >> well yeah, i thought that-- . >> rose: losing your skills in a sense. >> well yeah i des-- . >> rose: how did you see it? >> well i saw it as a potential movie. at a certain point in life you know, there are certain things you can't do any more. you know your age comes in and you're trying to find something that is suitable that is appropriate. >> rose: that happens to everybody. >> yeah, i hope. >> rose: it does. i mean i see people every day without are athletes. >> the athletes is more obvious because-- the actor they have you know the grandfather slots. >> rose: the interesting thing about acting is it is a bit like people who say you shouldn't read certain

tolstoy until you're 30 because you won't fully understand it. >> they say you shouldn't do hamlet until you are at least 40 except you've got to do ham let earlier because-- no because you won't do it if you wait until 40. you will learn too much and know it's impossible. so the best thing is to get in there. i love when young actors do it i didn't do it i never felt i was right for hamlet. i loved the play. probably my favorite play of all shakespeare. >> rose: and you never did it. >> i never did it i did scenes from it. i just didn't feel i could exist this that play is in the way i-- i thought like other people have that when i get older i will understand it more. there's a question of understanding it as an audience and understanding it as an artist. and that's the separation for me. >> rose: was it elam kazal that had you want to do a reading it was hamlet. >> that was straussberg. >> rose: was it? >> he did two i was afraid

to do anything. i was very young. i got into the actors' studio at a very young age and i just sat around there and watched them. and then i would go home. but throughout my life i had learned, i committed to memory certain monologues that i liked. >> rose: you were almost a teenager. >> well, i was in my early tos. and so i thought gee i have got these monologues in me great eugene o'neill monologues. >> and i had the wonderful rogue what a rogue and peasant slave am i, you know from shakespeare. and i had them committed to my mind. and so i went up for the first time. i was sitting there six months. finally i got up the nerve to sign up for the annually straussberg looks at the paper and says i love that he was able to pronounce my name al pacino most people say pa-kini by cani i grew up with that. he said al pacino. >> yes.

>> what's this? hamlet? and the iceman cometh. okay. let's see you know. we take all kinds in here. so i got up there and i did a ferocious rogue and peasant. and then i went wild with the, you know the eugene o'neill. >> rose: were you playing hickey. >> right. and i was really giving it the old gung ho stepping on the gas and stuff. wasn't really that good. and it was over. and he was looking at me. and the audience got kind of cheery about it because i had a lot of commitment and energy and i was young. and he just said listen al here is what i would like to do immediately this was the genius with him. he said i want to you do hamlet as hickey from the iceman cometh. and-- hickey as hamlet. and what i did was immediately went into it. and he was very happy about that. i didn't pause and say well

what do you mean. i just switched it. >> rose: so you had the character of hamlet and the text of hickey. >> yes. and then the text of hamlet and hickey as hamlet. >> rose: the presence he had. >> i learned more that day than i have in my entire life. >> rose: the first line of felipe book is called he lost his magic. i mean do you fear that? >> oh my you can imagine. to know that you see as you get older too that the stamina to do especially what this character does in the humling. he does theater. so you know that's an eight performances a week job doing this enormous roles. i don't know if you ever saw the movie the dresser. >> oh yes. >> they don't even know what character they are playing. they did three a day. so we do one a day. however the exhaustion and the tools you have as an

actor which is your own energy, your own appetite because i don't think you get up there and do king lear if you don't have an appetite. it's just impossible to do. there are certain things we can do if we don't feel like it. but you have to find it somewhere. >> you can't do lear if you don't-- you can't like walk through it. maybe if you are doing a movie of it it's possible. but. >> rose: not in one sustained performance. >> no no you can't. >> rose: do you want to do lear? >> no not particularly. >> rose: not yet or not ever. >> no there's another one that i-- actually i have had offers to do it all the time as a movie. i could see myself possibly doing it one day as a movie, possibly. because it's great of course. but i haven't found my way to lear. and i don't think it's my role. >> rose: but you love richard. >> i love richard. richard i could possibly do again. i did a reading of it actually i was at philadelphia philharmonic.

i was doing i was hosting believe it or not the 158th an verse aeroof the theater there. it was a wonderful thing with a great orchestra. and i was the emcee of the thingment i don't know how that happened. >> rose: it's not easy. >> no, and i found myself doing it and was really mainly talking about the first time i heard serious music or classical music remember the old lewiston stadium here. >> rose: oh sure. >> i heard strab inski rite of spring. i was there when strabinski himself conducted it and that was-- we were talking about inspiring moments. i will never forget that. and we were talking about times we hearded music for the first time. and anyway i did richard. i did several poems by ee cummings with the music behind me. so thises with a new experience. i loved it. i thought maybe i should do this. actors do chris plumber

does it from time to time. so i did richard and my great friend charlie lawton had told me he passed on a couple of years ago. before he-- he and i were talking and he said you know, you should try richard again. i am seeing things in you now. and i said yes, i wonder what he said that. then i went to philadelphia and two years later i'm up there doing richard. and it was so different it was so much a part of me in a way. and i added something. >> rose: richard hadn't changed, you changed. >> i have changed yes. >> rose: you know what i used to do with richard when i was first in boston. i was young early 30s. this was me doing richard. i would be in the dressing room. and we were-- i was in the rectory because we did it in the church. the church of the covenant was the only time we really got it a little bit it was in the midst of real turmoil

in my life. hi just become a kind of movie star and i was drinking. i was in this state constantly. so before i would go on and i would come out of the pulpit i can just say now is the wirnteder over a microphone in this church. >> now is the winter -- >> but i wouldn't go out. i would stay in the dressing room which was in the recognize ory. and i had this girl i won't mention her name but she was spunky girl with very young apprentice. i think she was at harvard. she was so smart and so much fun to be with. but she was just my assistant. and i so would be there in the rechtory making unfor richard. and she would come in and say it's, you know five minutes out. five minutes. i say well doesn't matter what it is. i would say this would happen every night. she would say what do you meanment i would say i'm not doing it. i said i'm not doing it tonight.

she says oh no no no no. you have to do it they're out. >> i said no you know. you know i'm not doing it you are not going to make me do this. >> she said i'm to the going to make you. >> oh yes, i am. i said stay away from me. she said no, no no you're going on that stage. i say stay away. you do it. and we would have this huge fight and all of a sudden i would hear places. and i would go off into it now that's preparation is. >> rose: you were ready to go. >> i was ready to go thenment i don't know what kind of preparation is that i never heard of that. but the point is you get it when you can. it comes to you in the moment. and. >> rose: and you have to find it? >> yeah. >> rose: and i think-- at least when you are doing-- i would call the richard idea the church of the covenant i would call that inspired richard. after that i think the richard i did was basically a lot of it by the numbers. a lot of it trying to remember what i had done before. and it didn't have the same

flavor. it wasn't coming from the same place of expression so to speak. >> in inhabit habiting a character, do you have to find a hook for you? do you have to find something about the character that i'm going to you know someone once said i think it may have been olivier that when i put on the suit you know what the character is or something like that? >> it does help. >> but they're saying that when you are unlocking the character because you're going to inhabit the character, what do you look for? anything other than what the text says to you? >> well yeah. you look for that thing that-- i don't know what it is. i like repetition. there is a saying goes repetition repetition keeps me green. >> yes. >> i love that saying. >> repetition keeps me green. >> keeps me green fresh. because the idea that we do performances over and over

again, you say well doesn't that get boring or steal. but no it's in the repetition that the creation comes that the expression comes. because i will give you an example. i was doing richard once not particularly well. and the show was going on. and we couldn't get to court see with a lot of people in it. i didn't understand what i was doing in the scien. so we would call rehearsal. we would rehearse it and stuff. and we would talk about it think about it you know like all this kind of work where people together are trying to figure out something. and the 85th performance of richard on my 85th entrance i knew the court scene. i understood it. i was there. i could play it. >> but not in '84. >> not in '84. i was-- i might have been getting close and didn't realize it. i gave up the ghost i guess. i just gave it up and say screw t it's to the going to happen. and i found it.

so you know when sam levine remember the great actor sam leff ian. when i was watching the royal family once in the theater. and sam levine comes in he comes in just opens the doors and comes in. and i was a young actor i thought wow. as soon as i saw that i just whoa. it was an entrance it wasn't an entrance it was something else it was a gift. he was opening the doors to something spectacular with light in it and everything. and energy. and joy. you know what it was. >> rose: what. >> he has done it for 50 years rdz. >> so that's a big thing. put a lot of stock in that. >> rose: did you ever use that in terms of any performance? >> i have done performances and they just got worse. until they got better you know. >> rose: because you're searching. >> there is a thing i did if american buffalo, i did it all over the world. and at first i remember people talking about wow you know you are going to

see al. he's like a tiger. he's got back and forth and like a leopard in a cage or something. i thought that was very nice. and probably that's what i was doing for a while. and i no longer after doing it for four years on and off i found myself in boston. and, i think it was the current theater there. and we were doing this or was it san francisco-- no boston. we were at the wilbur that's right. and i came out and i said an opening soliloquy beautifully written by david mam you utt. i come in the whole thing i'm on stage for about ten minutes that's a long time right. and i realized i hadn't moved. i hadn't moved from the spot. so what happened is economy came that thing came. it wasn't there. and for years and then it just came. that's what i mean about-- .

>> rose: but some people will say that the act of art is as in sculpture is getting down to a size. i mean you are-- it's taking a role or a painting it is in a sense defining it down to where it works for you stripping away everything so that what you see is the essence of a character of a scene. >> uh-huh. >> you see in sports, a lot too. >> he didn't do anything. he didn't do anything. >> so of course it's what you go for. >> you mentioned david mamut. what is it about the two of you. because you are going to within him again. >> a new play coming out in the fallment i don't know. >> rose: his words speak to. is it he has a sense of a character. >> he understands-- he presents a world in a way. and i think he and i just hear it. like for instance, working with colleagues on this play he's doing collaborating

of course. he's doing all the work. but i'm there and it's good to have someone even for him to bounce off and so i'm-- i'm home thinking about something. so i see him there a few days later, a week later. and he's written down what i was thinking about. so i say okay just go with that. just go with that. i don't know why. >> the power of observation well. >> it was just-- he is such a-- you know to call him a great writer is of course such a redundancy but at the same time he surprises me because he understands you know, he was an acker too. like i believe shakespeare was an actor. >> merchant of venice you love. >> yeah yeah. >> rose: you have done that more than once. >> i was in the movie. >> rose: i know. >> and then i did the play. >> rose: i know. >> and i knew with great sullivan director wanted me to play it. and i thought yes this is

the time to play it. because i learned about it in the movie a certain way. and i took attack on it because it's a movie. with theater you can just explore more i think. movies, pretty much it's hard to explore. >> rose: -- >> i know that it would be a different shylock. and so it was a great adventure for me to do that part. i really am very grateful. >> rose: dow want to do macbeth. >> i have been told about that a lot too. >> rose: i know. >> i can't even mention the name, you know. you're not supposed to. no, no, no. >> rose: it's a myth of the theater that you cannot mention the name. >> yeah. you know i-- i love the play, of course. who wouldn't. but i don't know. i think that's another one that has been shelfed for me. it's just great but-- . >> rose: what else is on that list? >> well i guess doing maybe doing richard again if

the-- i wanted to play-- for a long time that is a part i wanted to play. and i was ready to play it. >> rose: you said wanted. do you still want? ness. >> i want to play it. see, the thing s the cart is before the horse. sometimes you know you just get it and you go. it's-- to sit around wanting it, you know in my off time for years what i do is just i mean i practically know it is the longest written part in shakespeare. and i know hamlet and i know these parts. >> rose: you know. >> i know the words. i know the text. >> rose: because you practiced it. >> i practice it. of course everything changes when you get in the real you know it's like shadowboxing, until you get in the ring it's a different store he is is i love the idea of driving a car. lee straussberg would talk about it. it's like driving a car. everything is good you get in the car. you have to key you didn't start it yet. but you do everything right

you shift the thing you do this everything is working you say i can do thisment and then you turn the key and the car goes and pretty soon you're like oh man what is this. and you are ducking cars and going on the sidewalk. and that's the difference between rehearsing alone and then getting in there with other people. but at least you get a familiarity with it. because i love the play. i love doing it. i love learning it t is fun to say some those words. >> rose: i think you almost dropped out of high school did you? >> i did drop out of high school. >> rose: to go act. >> actually i won't to work. i went went to work because i-- we needed money in my family. and so i-- . >> rose: it was economic necessity. >> economic necessity at the time. but i did go to the village at age of 17. and i did-- i was really fed by all of that that was going on in the 60see. and that i was in coffee houses in the village and

doing 16 shows a week of whatever play passing the straw basket around. the audience would drop something in it and we would eat. >> charles lawton. >> ply friend. >> your friend. >> what's the nature of the friendship? >> well he's a-- at the same time mentor to young-- . >> rose: how did it start. >> i was 17. and he was teaching over there. off studio. >> hp studios. and i was there. he was a student of lee strauss befermingt he was a student of-- , of great people. and i was there at kip a teenager, really. and so anyway i heard about him but i took one look at this guy and i knew it was i came from that. theres with a familiarity. >> rose: i want to talk about some of the things that you have done. i know you have talked about this of about. but i mean when you did dog day afternoon did you know that you and sydney had

created something? >> interesting. because when we were doing it and i remember saying being on the-- because we rehearsed for a long time. and then i remember charles once said well you know with this picture you pull the pin, let it go. because as-- as sid me said to me, he says it has its own life, al. while we were shooting it. he says it has a life of its own. i thought yeah. wow. i couldn't tell. because i would be-- marty very wisely goes i was drinking those days too. i put it kuming of an pardon me under the bank and both me and judith would be hitting on weed back down judi molina. she played my mother. and but they were all upstairs and i was downstair as loan. and of course-- first of all

we rehearsed for a month. he moved the actors along. he was pretty much about performance and stuff. but when i would whoever we go up there and i wag again in it but-- sydney wanted me to-- because he sort of saw after the last shot that that fellow that i was-- had was channeling in some way whatever that character was evaporated. just went out of me like that was gone. and then when i had to come back. i had to re-create something because we had to reshoot something. i couldn't get it. i couldn't get it. i -- >> this is the idea akin to the idea of how long does an actor take apart with him. does it stick with you for a week or a month or-- well when i was younger. >> and once it evaporates

suppose you have to reshoot can you recapture it? >> yeah, i think things have changed a little for me now. i think i have been doing it so long now i let it go just let it go. >> yeah just let it go. >> not hard to do, just let it go. >> i usually go back when i was younger when i did it-- i would go back and we were leaving boston, i just went in the dressing room. when i would leave the part and i would say i'm going now. i have to move on. i'm going to leave you here. and hum em would say to me i'm all right. i do all right that was the line from the play. >> yeah. >> and that was-- that was kind of the thing i had to literally do that. but it does stick with you godfather sticked with me for a while there. that part that kind of place i had to go to. especially on really the first two. >> didn't see him as a gangster, did you? >> i never saw him as a

gangster no. >> rose: you saw him as. >> i saw him as someone who inherited this thing an this was there. >> did not want to expect to be there at an earlier time in his life. >> no. >> rose: but then understood that it was his responsibility to family and to -- >> his destiny. >> yeah. >> i always felt that about him. and i thought he had certainly ingredients that would allow him to do what he did and his father saw that in him early on. that's a long story with that one because i never wanted to play that part. i didn't that was francis that got me to do it he got me to do it he wanted moo he to play that part. >> rose: he fought for you. >> fought for me completely fought for me to such a degree, it was like i kept saying francis it's all right. i will do other things i was afraid of of the role.

>> some ackers say it's good. it's when they are afraid of the role, that's the best thing that they can have. if they are not afraid of it, some tell me they don't really want to do the part. it has to care them to be motivated to do it well that's certainly helped me with that but like when anyone sees you in a role you go threw a period when you become well-known or you have become what is known as bankable. you start to it's dubious because you don't if he with somebody wants you because they see you in the part or because you can mick the movie and you can get qon fused by that. so sometimes you do roles is but the best time is when a director wants. >> how well did you know marlon brando? >> well enough to love him. i didn't know him as well as other people have. i found him to be the most that kind of sensitivity

where he can sort of feel you. he feels your stuff. and he gets very concerned he was concerned about pea because at the time there is so much controversy. >> this is after god father. >> no, while we're shooting it. he was concerned about you. >> because he came up to me once and just was doing my-- just doing a little massage on my shoulder because he knew that i was going to go i was a man who didn't have long left for the set because francis wanted me. the studio didn't. think didn't want brando either. an brando you know but me t didn't matter. they just-- they were just shocked that francis wanted. >> didn't francis bring in was it panic or did he bring? >> jerry schatzberg directed it needle park. >> rose: he was the photographer too wasn't he? >> yeah just a beautiful

direct orial. >> but francis brought them in. >> from a panic in needle park. and just showed it to them. and that got me in. and then i started, you know there are scenes. the part of michael corleo nis is sort of built it's constructed in such a way that it starts almost like kind of a shadow and turns into this presence and that was the way i thought of getting finally getting to that, so that by the time you see him in the end he is kind of an enigma. and that's part of the power of him. because we don't know where he came from. so it has that feeling it is almost mythic rrz does it make you like two better than one godfather two. >> i like them both. i think one has its story it's the original it's a

great story. two have francis's story. he talks about himself in that move-year you know. a lot of him in is it. a lot of his personal feelings he gets out about himself and everything. and that's what gives it that power. >> i always wanted to ask you thisment brando became interested in this show. an he what watch it and call me up and send me notes and call himself bran flakes. >> i heard that. >> what was his gifted? a. >> that's hard to define t the genius of character. yes that's all i can say. i don't mean to be but he had-- but de cross the line where he had the great beauty as a movie star. >> right. >> and he was a character acker, one of the few. we had paul muney before that that was a great acker. but never did you have a movie sar you know the great movie stars, great ackers including gary coop he, gary grant wonderful

wonderful to watch. but marvin was a character actor. and that means that he played roles that were different from each other. very distinctly different from each other. >> rose: and how you have managed to be a star to this day and in the playing character roles and you are playing stars you are at the centre of these two films. >> uh-huh. >> well again i'm going by the. >> rose: is it box office. >> what i'm feeling. >> rose: is it-- you tell me. i think it's always been you know some movies i have made that aren't character driven different characters i play i done know, i find it it's a miss tree to me it really is a miss trae that i'm actually hear talking to you and that i'm still doing this thing.

but i started early too as an acker and i was seen in new york in a play called india wants the bronx. >> in which i got a newby award for that that year. and it was fay doneaway who saw me in this play and told marty brigman. i made movies with him but that play, there was something in that play that-- this beautiful play the indian wants the bronx and-- was in it too. and i hadn't acted maybe ten years before that. so i was quite young mid --. and it just started to sail along. and i did feel oddly enough when i talked about it that i went from being this explore never my work in a way stermenting and trying to learn more about the

classics and myself in connect to doing things i lot a lot of joy out of that. i was in a place called the acker's gallery down in soho which nobody could even find in those days. but as i said the continuing in the village and all that. and then to finally be lauded in a way and suddenly everything upped the stakes. and the star thing came in and the name above the title came. in and somehow i was sort of trying to preserve something i thought i understood earlier on. because i then found myself in another world. which i liked. i thought it was a good thing i still think it was a good thing a lucky thinging things happen that way sometimes am but maybe something happened that was somewhat new.

a new kind of person that wasn't compareable to other things people were seeing came out of the 60s. came out this it this time in america where people like me from you know being given an opportunity whatever. i don't know it was a combination of things. i remember one time i did a scene charlie we had this scene i will never forget it. i saw him on his deathbed and i said to him charlie remember the time when they were doing this big thing and i was one of the scenes in the school and every teacher brought their student in that they wanted to show off their work how they were doing. and i went into this thinging i did this scene. and i remember when i came to see you charlie grabbed me and just said good stuff

al, good stuff. and i said oh and then the teacher got up. and went crazy against me thought it was the worst without do you think you are luther addler. you come up here you do this i was sitting here thinking what is this about. and i told charl-year in the hospital, i asked. do you remember that time. >> rose: on his deathbed. >> yeah. i said what was that? >> what was that was did he get soup set. >> he said well he saw a new time a newera. and i thought that that in some way it was very dramic to hear that he said i don't know that that is true but i do know this it was interesting because that was happeninging you know, it happens today too something new comes along and it's either we get used to it you know, in the old days actors had to be a certain pronounce things a certain way an be a certain height

so they would be seen in the audience so there was the-- i don't mean to compare myself to people like-- but i was always reading books about actors. i would read about it and edmond king came at a time where you know he came from a whole other climate a whole other world and went on the stage. it was newment and i any there was stion about its roles i played and the situation and the times we were in. that connected and i got lucky, really. and then it's been this thing all my life. and so i have to say i know you have heard it allots. everybody says it. but it's true. it's luck. and timing and i remember saying once to someone who said to me al because we're all together actsersing i'm no better than anybody else really in that way.

because i have seen people do such great stuff. i wish i could but at the same time this guy is saying al you know you are doing so well, this is a few years into it what is it. why do you -- >> why you? i mean why not me. he said i've always-- i've always, i always wanted this. i want this stuff. that you have. i said yeah i said you want it, i think i had to have it. >> rose: oh wow had to have it. >> had to have it, in a way. that's -- that's an interesting distinction you know. one doesn't know. i'm just mouthing now because i don't know. i just think that there was a period. >> rose: that you had too have if. >> i had to have it am and believe it or not i can tell when-- it's-- i knew at some point this was my time. i never thought it would turn into this naturally. but i knew it was my time

that i would be seen in some way. that enough had happened and that this part in the play you know, i went up to boston, i did two three plays there repertory. i went to do a part in a play and there was no way. they all mant wanted me for it, you will be great for this part. i thought yeah, man i will be. but i got up and did it and it was to the good at all. as a matter of fact i remember that that i was in the dressing room and somebody came in and i heard it on the speaker. it my entrance was coming up. and this guy in the dressing room was really excited about this review he was reading about the play we were doing. and i said was's that. and he tried to cover it and i thought well why is he covering it. i said can i see that john. he said yeah yeah okay here. and he pushed it over to me and i looked at it and i saw this great review. and it was part-- this person, that person how great. with the one exception.

it was al pacino in the role of so-and-so was terrible. and i read that and as i was reading it my cue came on the speaker and i had to go on stage. so i had to perform after reading that, in the play he was criticizing me in. but i laughed. i think when your certain time the ability to look at something like that and laugh i think might have helped me a little bit. i don't know. it feld it hurt. and another part that i didn't want to do, i was okay in. so it's-- it's alwaysed question of what do we do? i mean you know you are walking along the street. you see a certain tree. you either take a picture or get the kansas vout -- canvas out and you paint it you never know when it's going to happen. you read a script. and with actors if you don't try t you're not going to to know. and what happens is if you stop to sensor yourself i think when you start

sensoring yourself it gets a little-- because we don't know. i don't know why. >> rose: but you have been willing to take risks. >> yeah. >> you have to. everybody, a lot of people do, yeah. >> you have to finally take that risk. i took this risk with danny collins doing music singing. >> are you singing in danny collins. >> yeah. singing in the rain. but it's okay. i hope i get by a little bit. but it's-- it's that i took it because the director really wanted me to. and when you think about i took godfather because the director really wanted me. >> rose: francis want you. thank you for coming. >> my pleasure. great talking to you charlie. it's a pleasure al pacino the humling and danny collins, two really remarkable profiles of actors, one a singer and then another, a theatre actor. looking at their own life and where they are and what

they might have missed and where they might go. thank you for joining us. see you next time. >> for more about this program and earlier episodes visit us yen line at pbs.or going an charlie rose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

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