>> rose: welcome to the program, we begin this evening with michael lewis, the author of flash boys, now in paperback. >> there are two ways of looking at this world. one is as a problem that the regulators need to solve, that you have got this stock market that is screwed up and it got really screwy at the heart of it and may lead to ruin and there is nothing else that actually leads to a lot of kind of attacks on investors, that is totally unnecessary, but i don't -- i never actually held up much hope the regulators could do anything. so what came out there has been a lot of noise out of regulatory, out of to the regulatory bodies the new york, the justice department so on and so forth, this is where it led, what has actually happened, nothing actually happened. >> rose: do you belie it will happen? >> i don't believe the sec is going to do anything. >> rose:. >> we go to aaron levie.

>> we started in college my cofounder and i, and i, 2004 when the idea came of, kind of came about when we launched, as soon as we launched we focused on the consumer market but what happened was we saw google, apple microsoft others potentially as big competitors in the consumer space, but when we went and looked at the enterprise market there are tens of billions of dollars spent every year on technology we didn't think was going to enable enter prize to be more productive with their information and also not as secure with their data so we sided to pivot the company and focus entirely on enterprise, that was 2006, 2007 so for about eight years all we have done is focus ongoing, building platform for large enterprises to manage and secure their information. >> rose: michael lewis and aaron levie when we continue. >> funding for charlie rose is provided by the >> rose: additional funding provided by:

>> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: michael lewis is here, he. >> rose: to prominence more than 25 years ago with liars poker, that book is considered among the accounts of wall street excesses during the 1980s, he has since covered a variety of subjects from major league baseball to the financial crisis, of 2008. last spring he published flash boys, it examined the world of high frequency stock trading in which machines prevailed at the expense of everyone else. one year later, a new afterward accesses the challenges that remain for high frequency

trading. i am pleased to have michael lewis back at this table. welcome. >> thank charlie. >> what is it you are saying in the afterward that happened since the publication of this book? >> the public relations firm hired by high frequency traders have gotten a lot better at attacking me, but other than that, what has happened? >> rose: a few came to see me after we did that long interview. >> it is really like being on the receiving end -- >> rose: hear us out is all they said. >> it is an organized political campaign and i can understand why because there is a lot of money at stake. what happened what am i saying? so there are two ways of looking at this world. one is as a problem that the regulators need to solve, that you have got this stock market that is screwed up and they, it got really screwy at the heart of it and may lead to ruin and there is nothing else that actually leads to a lot of kind of attacks on investors, it is totally unnecessary.

but i don't -- i never actually held up much hope the regulators would do anything. so what happened since the book came out there has been a lot of noise out of regulatory bodies, the new york attorney general's office the justice department, so on and so forth, it is hard to see where it has led, what has actually happened nothing has actually happened. >> rose: do you believe it will happen. >> i don't think the sec will do anything. >> rose: how about the new york attorney general? >> yes. i think the new york attorney general may have real, real effects. >> he has sued barclays for his -- for miss representing the role high frequency traders played in the dark pool and and there may be more lawsuits to file he and he has broad powers that could actually have some effect but i actually think while that is all very important, the real story is what is happening on the ground in the market with these characters that i wrote about. >> rose: that you -- >> the people that -- that created an exchange where they made it as difficult as possible for high frequency traders to

take advantage of ordinary investors on the market, and the market is taking off, i mean, it is very profitable, they have attract, since the book came out $75 million in venture capital. >> rose: so they are growing. >> they are growing and becoming a public exchange like the new york stock exchange in the fall and that is a huge deal, because things like companies listed on it, moving their listings to them could happen. they have -- their volume grew dramatically increased and put pressure on the rest of the market to reform. >> rose: more efficient at a lower cost? >> for investors. >> rose: right. >> that's right. and so that is, i think that is the path to change and it seems to be happening. it is -- it is -- it is certainly the greatest hope. >> rose: it seems to me the attention, rather than on the what you were saying was sort of the idea that the market was rigged, everybody loved that story. >> huh. >> and you come along and say

well maybe it is in part and everybody just ate that up. >> yeah. well -- uh, it -- this is -- so -- yes, it is true that created a little splash when i was on 60 minute they asked if i thought the market was rigged and i said yes because i do. >> rose: and a lot of people said, aha mabel, did you hear what he said i have been telling yo >> but they may not get my meaning about how. >> that's my point. >> so it is rigged because there is a systematic grift built into it you have a handful of people who have been sold special access to information and -- >> rose: faster than anybody else and better price. so you are colluding. >> you are colliding with people who small hands will pay for a privileged access who have no more than you do. you are trading at a disadvantage. >> have they changed their practice one iota since you wrote the book? >> it is hard to tell. i have been told, the technical

issue is the speed difference between the market that the ordinary investors sees and the market that the high frequency trader sees. i mean, it is a matter of, you know, milliseconds. and i have been told that dark pools for example, and the exchanges have been investing with a little more alacrity in speeding up the market that the ordinary investor sees so they may be shrinking the gap a bit but i just don't know i should know, the sec should be telling us but i don't know. it is not clear. there has been no -- there has been no -- there has been no real symptomatic change. the grift is still built into the market. >> rose: you and i talked about this before but i mean, what does the sorry i stohr i are have to have that interest you? you have to have characters that interest you? >> that's the main thing, i really had very litter native interest in -- in a story about a wall street scandal. the financial crisis, the big -- the desire --. yeah,

absolutely. it wasn't the scandal even in that case that interested me the most. what was interesting was the way people responded to it and these characters are what i loved about this book. what i loved was that you had these people who were inside the market, in exchanges, in brokerage firms who even from high frequency trading shops who saw that -- it was a big problem in the on account of the way the market was functioning and saw holes in the market and instead of trying to make money from the glitches in the market they -- they banded together to try to fix it. so it showed that the moral impulse for the impulse of that meaningful work, the impulse to do something good in the world, uh, to like what you did all day, exists on wall street. and i thought this is actually extreme think helpful and i thought if i can -- if i can explain what these people have done and -- and amplify it, uh, that other people will follow

their example. >> rose: basically, you have said if i see a story in which i think that i can do something good by doing the story, it is generally i will go for it? >> that's -- >> yes, so red meat. not just the consequences of the story though, it's -- it's -- it is when i feel the story so-so rich that uh, that if i -- if i don't do it i have made a big mistake that, that -- in fact i have been entrusted in the story, in this case i was, they weren't going to talk to anybody else. they weren't going to talk to anybody else. so i felt when i was entrusted with a story i kind of have an obligation it creates sufficient, uh, sort of like, uh, energy to go and actually do the work. >> when you figure out you have an idea with characters that is like you have just hit a home run. >> yeah. i -- i feel -- i do feel like -- and i hide it, you know. i don't want people to know what i am doing. >> rose: i will use that metaphor. >> i don't want people to know i have this treasure.

but -- but it was clearly, this was clearly, uh like a really rich vein to mine. >> rose: i want to move beyond that. this is what some of the people have said we cuddle some remarked here, all of these people i assume you know, barron's and other publications .. the motion high frequency traders use their technology to pick off the little guy, that part of flash boys is wrong. mary joe white the equity markets are strong and continue to to serve the interests of both -- and. >> the head of her division and trading and markets 0 who oversees the markets who recently left the sec, there was just a piece in bloomberg news he described the stock market as a death star it is so screwed up and it is -- he couldn't speak freely when he was at the sec so there is a great deal of dissent below mary joe white on whether the stock market is actually -- >> rose: let's continue there, then. john the founder of the vanguard group which you know, that is what you do to sell books. i don't know how it is rigged. the real point is he doesn't

make one bit of difference to an investor who is in an index fund for a lifetime. >> well, so -- there is some truth -- this is interest canning because vanguard is the one big investor who has come out and said, don't mess with the current system. >> rose: right. >> so -- >> rose: low cost index fund. >> what is that? >> they are a -- >> they are terrific, i think everybody should be in them. so this is not taking anything away from vanguard, but the costs that are imposed by high frequently traders on the market, the tax falls on active investors, it falls on big mutual fund, it falls on retail investors, anybody who is trading a lot on the market. it falls -- so -- the index funds are less act five the market. uh, so it gives them a relative advantage to have their competition being taxed, there is a reason he would be less concerned about it, umar farouk.

>> some of vanguard was quoted assaying this very early on, whatever the problems, are don't fix it at the regulatory level you will make more problems. they don't trust anybody to fix it. so they are cynical. i have interviewed people who run some of the biggest institutional money managers in the country, i mean, hundreds of billions of dollars of equity funds, and they are calculating the costs to them of the current stock market. they are livid about it. i mean just before i wrote -- >> rose: i mean not that but it is a cost item, it is a cost of -- >> it is people front running their orders. >> rose: right. >> so it is uninformed for the head of vanguard just to dismiss it that way and it isn't me saying the stock market is rigged. it is people right in the heart of the market who the figured out and teaching wow in the book how it is rigged. so it is ignorant and it is forgivable because he created vanguard and vanguard is terrific. >> rose: okay.

let's turn away from this. we have talked about this an hour on the other show, an hour the last time you were here. what interests you? does biography interest you? for example. >> what, would i want to write a biography? >> rose: would you like to be walter eisner? >> no, i wouldn't do it well. >> rose: why not? you would do it perfectly well. give me an argument why you wouldn't do a biography -- >> why. >> rose: you know you could do it you could i didn't a good biography, which you do, but you wouldn't want to because? >> well biography gives you a narrative,. >> rose: oh. >> it is sort of like there is a frame. >> yes. >> at the born he lived, he died. >> rose: right. >> and the narratives that excite me are the narratives i find, it is sort of like what the is the story. >> you find -- >> i think i would feel like too much was handed to me and i also think there is a level of like -- good buying ferre is a capacity to get obsessed with a single character. >> but also good biography who

understands the power of the question why? >> that's true. >> they know what they just don't know why. that's not also apparent. >> that's true. >> rose: and it is what you discover that answers the why, research and all of that. >> and some speculation too. >> i mean, obviously buying graphical elements to all of my books, i try to capture characters on pages but i have never -- it is just -- for whatever reason even when i know -- >> rose: no political figure no scientific figure -- >> i don't want to seem like i am not interested in people but i am but when i turn to the president, even like president obama i have an interest but my interest in writing to him is peculiar, about the way he makes decisions. >> rose: that's a book. >> that's a book i would love to write but it would be, you know, a if he left me in to to do it i would take only a slice of -- >> rose: why would he do that? because that's the book he wants to write. >> i think he probably wants to the write a grand sweeping narrative of his presidency. >> that's why he makes decisions, isn't it? >> in part.

>> rose: if he didn't include that in his own memoir then something is missing from the memoir. >> are you trying to kill my book project? because actually -- >> rose: i am not. >> it conflict with his book. it would be a nice compliment to his book. >> rose: okay. >> and because -- >> rose:. >> president if you are listening -- what lewis wants to do is a huge comment on those things you don't want to write about mr. lewis does. >> but -- >> rose: did i redeem -- >> to get back to the original question, i don't -- i don't -- i think some people -- walter ice sack son himself is a friend, good friend, he grew up in new orleans and seven years ago ahead of me in school, i was told over and over when i was a child one day i should grow up to be just like him. every kid in the school got this lecture about we all has to be walter ice sack son. >> rose: now you need to write

a book about a great man, you need to do that next. i wouldn't know where to begin and what to do about that. so even though i was told by walter no less a person than walter that i should go do that it just didn't catch. it doesn't interest me. and maybe ego assist cal and maybe i don't want to, i don't want someone else to take over my book to the extent -- >> rose: .. >> and everything you have said, tell me the one person who would most likely attract you. >> ha! you mean if you put a gun to my head and said i have to write a biography? >> rose: you have to write one. >> i would probably -- >> rose: come on we know what you would say. >> do you think i would say obama? >> rose: i don't know. >> uh, it is -- the -- there really isn't anybody who i would just want to spend that amount of time. >> rose: no athlete no president no huge cultural figure? who would who has dominated hawaii his or her world?

>> a lot of books i would love to write which sound a little bit lying biographies, like peyton manning, i would love to spend a season with him, quarterback of the denver broncos his last season and just about the way the way someone can essentially think their way to success on a football field. >> rose: what interests me about this, someone said to me the other day that me, they were talking about me, the thing that interests me about you is that you are fascinated by how people achieve what they do what is the elements of their own -- not success in terms of because you want to write about this is your way to success, but success in terms of understanding achievement, understanding sacrifice, understanding -- understanding what that person knew to be able to climb that mountain. >> right. >> rose: that interests me. >> is that the same thing -- >> it does interest me. >> other things that interest me too but that is. >> rose: that is part of what interests me. therefore, peyton manning is a wonderful story and tom brady

there was a long new york times article -- >> he is actually pro football, peyton manning is playing games without throwing a football. >> rose: it is his mind. >> it it is his mine. his mind gives him fractions of a second advantage, he is a high frequency trader on the football field so i mean so there is an example, someone mentioned but i would do it for a specific reason and i wouldn't want want to go into his childcare. i wouldn't care that much. to a bit. maybe if it was relevant to what i was exploring so there is nobody who comes to mind, once upon a time i thought it wasn't going to be a biography exactly but something like a biography about george sorry ross would be interesting. sorry ross when right after the berlin wall fell and he was building his open society institutes all over eastern europe and russia, i thought there was a really good story to do about him i wrote a magazine

piece and he was offended by it so he wouldn't let me do the book. but he -- >> rose: what was it that gave you the incentive to want to do something on soros, not just those things he did in terms of an open society, the fact that -- >> my interest in him was offensive to him because of the nature of the interest was. this he clearly had this animal instinct in the markets which was unbelievable, unbelievably keene, like an animal in the jungle. >> rose: how was it expressed? >> in, you know investing in the marketplace, in his hedge fund life. he, you know, the killing he made on the british pound, for example. and he had been unbelievably successful in the marketplace, and then he, after the fact, erected this intellectual edifice to explain his success, which i thought had very little to do with his success, that -- but -- so he wanted to have a

theory of why he was successful in the marketplace when i think the -- it wasn't -- it wasn't the theory that was doing it. so i was interested in this man in the way he thought about the markets and the way he actually was in the markets. >> rose: but to read everything you have written is to suggest to me. >> you are more interested in character than story, you would disagree with that. >> there is some truth to that. i mean i guess i like story too. >> rose: i know you do. but the story has a character -- >> rose: you are more interested in character. >> i am very interested in character. >> characters in situations. >> rose: give me an example. i went to the theatre and i started to telling you this story. musical hamilton is getting a lot of attention, wonderful and actually i learned a lot of things about alexander hamilton and it all began because of a biography that the guy who created the musical took with him on a vacation and he took

the book with him and it was ron churos book and he said i can do this. >> this is a musical. >> rose:. >> he is the only one who took that book on vacation. >> rose: that's why sea genius exactly why sea genius. >> sea genius to have the nerve to do it after he thought about it. >> and it is brilliant. i mean i just love that, the inspiration about character and because his life when you think about it, he lost his life in a dual and the question as to whether he fired up in the air, did he want to do die because he told his son to do that. this is just magic. so. >> so buying ferre also have responsibility to include a lot of boring stuff, you know. that is a burden. >> rose: editors have the responsibility to take it out. yes? >> i am sorry. i just don't feel the urge. i just don't feel the urge. >> do you have any urge to do

anything you are not doing? >> yes. absolutely. >> rose: what? >> i have been trying and failing for a decade to get a tv show in the air. >> rose: about what? >> well different tv shows, but -- >> rose: well just give me one -- >> the one i am just panning in, with show time, they commissioned me to write a pilot for a drama. it is set in wall street in 19 twenties. >> rose: well that is great. >> and draw some, real characters from life, basically but if that gets on the air then i run a tv show. >> rose: do you know alexander ross sorkin who -- >> i heard of him. >> rose: called the billiard something like that. on hbo he has these wonderful characters and they are already shooting it about paul jima at this. >> >> you can clearly get things done on tv and a writer retains control over it. >> rose: how you can receive it, the fact you have a length of time to do it. >> right. i would love to do this. but it has taken me a while to

learn how to write a screen play. >> what did you to learn? >> i well, i mean, where to put the margins, you know, in the beginning, i didn't know but also just how to -- >> rose: what do you mean where to put the margins? >> just the the be -- beginning. >> rose: can a writer read a screen play and know how to do that and -- first you read one and see how it is different and then go talk to somebody who does it really well and say what do i need to learn and how do i go learn that? >> it is a very compressed story telling form. it is very compressed. it is taking -- when someone takes one of my books and turns it into a movie first they have to turn it essentially into a short story, and learning the9÷ó6cj% art of compression there are lots of little tricks. so -- but that is something i really would like to do that i haven't done. >> rose: you have created seven or eight that have been turned down? >> this is the fifth. >> rose: and they turned them down? >> turned them down, they didn't turn on the idea, they paid me to write a script and a couple are still alive.

>> rose: were these your ideas or their ideas. >> my ideas. >> and you wrote the character and dialogue for them? >> and they have gotten close but not on the air. one of them is a little bit of a -- one of them -- i mean, the blind side, i had an idea for tv show to come off the back of that and the movie would have killed that, i mean, so -- but -- yes, i have tried and failed several times. >> rose:. >> i keep trying because i actually feel like it is something i should be doing, i don't feel uncomfortable with the genre and just the opposite it feels very natural. >> rose: would you be interested in doing something a long magazine piece or a biography about somebody that was a criminal? >> you got hooked on this biography. >> rose: well -- >> >> rose: a biography -- >> i am not leaving here until i am writing a biography, all right. >> rose: but theatre is about dialogue, i mean, everything really is essentially about conversations between two people. i mean everything is an outgrowth of that, father son,

brother sister, you know, mother-daughter, mother-son, husband-wife. >> so we are back in biography. what am i supposed to do? write a biography. >> at that time i was more interested in subject matter somebody who is a huge criminal. >> right. >> rose: if you could have access to a drug lord -- >> bernie madoff doff. >> rose: that doesn't interest me. >> a drug kingpin. >> rose: yes. >> a mass purred we are. >> >> rose: pablo es kovar. >> es kovar. >> take that one, i don't think i would be interested in writing a book amount anybody -- somebody i didn't add mire on some level, so it would have to be a criminal i admired. >> rose: now we have gained something. >> so it would have to be a criminal i admired. >> rose: and somebody -- >> robin hood. >> rose: a b!i- list that comes over to help -- have you seen black list? >> i haven't watched it. >> rose: you know about it? >> yes. >> rose: okay. >> so it would have to be -- they would have to find something i admired about him but that is doable, not a

biography but a book. >> rose: we already talked about a book i am just having fun here. so i mean, do you want to climb in the himalayas? >> like a bucket list? >> rose: do you have a bucket list. >> i don't have a bucket list, i do lots of that kind of stuff guy off with pals once a year for five or six days and we climb mountains, yes. >> rose: which mountains have you climbed? >> we haven't climbed any big mountains, no famous mountain, these little mountains, mountains in british columbia and mountains in puerto rico. >> rose: why don't you go climb mount everest and write about that. >> other people have done that. >> rose: and it doesn't look like fun, especially if you don't like cold. >> yes, i will suffer a little bit, but i don't have a bucket list. >> what is undiscovered in life? >> for me? >> yes. you. >> oh, there are a bunch of things. there are a bunch of things that are undiscovered -- there are things i would love to explore

as a writer, i would like to go back to my childhood in new orleans that i grew up -- >> rose: and tell the new orleans of the the tell the story of the new orleans you knew as a child. >> yes. >> and wallet isaacson daschle. >> he was like a martian, he wanted to go work and do stuff, most of us just wanted to lay around and scratch ourselves. so i do have kind of a list of subjects that i want to tack le. >> let's hear them. >> that is one of them. >> rose: about new orleans. okay. >> rose: i am trying to help you out here because inthb is going to hear about that and somebody is going to say that's exactly what i want to do. go ahead. >> that's a book i want to write one day. there is a sequel to money ball that i bet i write one day. >> rose: why -- >> >> rose: why do you want to write a sequel? >> it is a different book totally different book, it is a sequel, it grew out of money ball. >> rose: okay.

it is not billy beane today? >> no, no. he wouldn't hardly be in the book. it is about a the kids they drafted in 2002 who were all of these unlike will i misfits. i followed them for a number of years and i never wrote the thing because i wanted to wait longer. yeah, there is, that's the one i will work on next. and the, and i have a another tv series i i am working on but i can't talk about it because it makes it less real. >> rose: is there anything else you want to do in terms of mountains and sports and -- >> i would like to -- for my -- i coached my kids in softball and baseball, we want to get -- we want to win the national championship. >> is that achievable? >> yes. yes. >> it is? >> yeah. >> rose: it is softball. >> we have a group of kids that are really good. so that would be great. i don't have -- but i don't -- i don't think that way. i don't -- i never had a resume

that suddenly made me write one to get into solomon brothers but i never thought, oh, i want -- i think it would make you very unhappy to think like i want to get that prize, or that kind of stuff, so i don't -- it doesn't -- >> rose: but you do want to make things that make you feel like you are alive? >> absolutely, there are a lot of books i want to write. my tv show is at the top of my mind right now. i want to create this tv show and run it and have that experience. but -- uh, no, i don't have any kind of -- >> rose: do you know anybody in hollywood? >> oh, a lot of people. >> rose: you do because they made movies -- >> absolutely. >> rose: the big short is going to be a movie? >> yes. >> with brad pitt and ryan gosling. >> steve carell. >> christian bale. and christian bale. >> rose: that is a great cast. >> great cast. >> i mean. >> rose: and then this might be might might, might be a movie. >> if -- if aaron sorry kins.

>> soccer kins does his sorkins does his job it could happen. but that is out of my hands, i don't have much to do that with with that, they would far prefer me to be dead. >> are you a hard worker. >> i am a sporadic worker, i think of myself as a lazy person and have a great capacity to procrastinate but when i get -- when i get really into a project i do vanish into it, it doesn't feel like work, so i am not a hard worker because work is doing something that feels like work so if it feels like work, i tend not to do it. >> rose: one last question on the economics. what is happening in europe an what is going to happen with the greeks and -- >> that is a really good question. yesterday or today there was a piece in the newspaper about how the greeks are up in arms and want to lynch the guy who does their economic statistics of the country because he stands accused of having made the deficit look worse than it actually was in order to sell

politically the need for this onerous bailout and, and in ten years ago the guy was being lynched for making it disappear. i mean so what is going to happen? we have a culture clash, a slow rolling culture clash and it starts with it starts with the financial crisis, but you have -- and these economic differences, but now you have got the question is can the greeks and the germans survive in the same currency? and i don't think so. i have us don't think so. i think the germans have now come to realize unless we are willing to just basically support the greeks that we don't want them in this. and they seem to be actively kind of spooking them into leaving. but leaving is a big big deal so i don't know exactly how that happens still, but i think the thing -- i don't think the currency goes away but i think the greeks are going to leave it. >> rose: they will leave the euro zone because they don't

want to meet the restrictions and requirements. >> i think that is what is going to happen. who knows? my opinion on this is not worth anything. but i think that the -- it began with a lie, right? it began with a lie that -- about, uh, greek deficits. >> rose: right. >> uhm and relationship starts with -- >> rose: this is the paperback addition edition of flash boys, michael lewis, new york times number one best seller. aaron sorkin may make it into a movie, great to see you. >> great to see you. >> rose: back in a moment. stay with us. >> rose: aaron levie is here corks founder and ceo of box, the cloud based storage company serves over 30 million customers and 275,000 companies worldwide last fall the company announced box forestries, it provides tailored solutions in fields

such as healthcare, media and financial services, cyber security is one of the challenges to cloud computings as companies hook to move their information fully online, i am pleased to have aaron levie back at this table welcome. >> thank you charlie. >> what happened to box since i saw you last. >> not much, just the standard things, took it public. >> rose: yes. >> and been building up the company we now have 1,200 employees. so a bit of growth and such since we were at this table last, but, you know our i have is, you know, continues to change very rapidly and enterprises continue to immediate new and best in class solutions to change how they work, and we are very fortunate that our product and platform has been adopted to help enterprises do that. >> when you go to an enterprise what do you tell them? what is your argument at that as to why they need box? >> yes, when we first started the company ten years ago now, we were really changing how you worked with your information so you could access your files from any device, share with anyone,

you could produce only work flows so if you were in life sciences you could collaborate a with rese chers in financial services dylan ties a process, it is how changing informationing how they handle their data. the but there are many new cyber security threats in financial services, retail, media and entertainment we have all of these new attacks that are happening and enterprises need better ways of managing and securing their information, so we can both lower the cost of your kind of, managing their legacy technology but also improve how you are securing and how you are protecting your critical intellectual property within your enterprise. >> rose: is that all the reason you said, i think a quote that i read was,. >> we are at a once in a generation shift in terms of the migration to the cloud? yes. so what is happening is -- >> rose: cyber -- >> the threat of cyber security on legacy systems but you also have this issue with if you are a hospital if you are a retailer, if you are a bank and you are managing billions of

dollars in infrastructure for storing data for your e-mail systems, for your crm systems, that is really not your kind of key competitive advantage, your competitive advantage is building, you know world class experiences, customer relationships new business models, it is not going to be, how well do you store your content, so if you can work with providers that help you do that maybe that is workday for your human capital management your hr system, maybe it is sales for, or maybe box for your content that actually lets you free up your time your energy an resources to go focus on something that is going to be truly helping you become more get if the, so that is what is pushing this move to the cloud and it is only being accelerated because of the new threats that enterprises are facing. >> what inning of this transition are we? >> i get my sports analysis wrong. >> rose: there are nine innings. >> nine innings in this one, like are we in the tenth yard line or -- >> so i think. >> rose: from a scale of he zero to 100 -- >> like the baseball one, i think i can accomplish it. , you know,, i think we are in

the first third of the inning, so somewhere between one and 3 is what i would -- what i would guess. >> rose: you made a basic decision with box, i think, to transition away from the consumer. >> we did. yes. so when we started the company, we started in college, my cofounder and i 20the four, when the idea kind of came about but in 2005 when we launched and really as soon as we launched, we focused on the consumer market and the s and d market but what happened was, we saw google, apple, microsoft, others potential as big competitors in the consumer space, but when we went and looked at the enterprise marketable there were tens of billions of dollars spent every year on technology we didn't think was going to enable enterprise to be more productive with their information and also not as secure with their data. so we decided to kind of pivot the company and focus entirely on the enterprise, that was 2006, 2007 so for about eight years all we have done is focus on building a platform for large enterprises to manage and secure their information. >> i think you have said you

underestimated the potential or mobile i believe. >> we did. so i mean, at first hoabl for our users, and even our own use cases was this extra device that people are going to want to access their information from, but what eventually happened was we realized that inside of hospitals that is now the new device that people are going to be able to pull up medical information on, inside of a retail business it is going to be where the store says they are working and interacting with their client, we have agriculture businesses where it is the device that people are actually looking up farm data, and agricultural data. so if you think about mobile is not just a way to augment or, our continuing experiencing, it brings computers to a whole new crop of people from the very first time, so that's a pretty fundamental change and it is a change from the consumer business, because it means you can go after billions of people on mobile devices and it should change really for the enterprise business because it means you have all of these new networks people want to access information from. >> so in terms of mobile and in terms of the mobile phone and along comes all of this, samsung offers in terms of g-7s and g 5s

and all all of that what has that done for your business. >> yes. >> is that just what you were saying it gives people a change to access the most convenient and efficient way? >> yes. and it also changes -- it changes the enterprise landscape of technology you can use, so you know, in one kind of path the world is on where people came into the corporation, inside of their corporate office, they worked on a pc, that pc likely was window, windows, it connected to, you know, a server that was likely run by microsoft, you know from a network that was fairly closed off to the outside world, and that was sort of, you know, one way of doing computing, and today, what has changed is everybody has an ice phone ipad, maybe some kind of android device and they brought those technologies into the workplace, they need to access technologies and that is creating this disrupt if the force in enterprise softwares means we need new solutions and new ways of consuming placings and new startups that emerge and very importantly right now it changes the security landscape, you

can't secure this new way of working on mobile devices the same way you could secure just your corporate network inside of your enterprise so that that is actually disrupted the spire security model of the enterprise, no longer can you have this perimeter around your business protecting it, because there is no -- there is no kind of logical separation of your business and the outside world you are kind of every, everywhere and sharing with anyone and people can access data in any device so you need a new security model to do all of the work in this new enterprise. >> rose: i was thinking about this in terms of the digital revolution but i will ask it in terms of the mobile revolution. we have, we are just beginning ten, 15 percent of the potential power of mobile computing. >> yes, i think we are in the beginning in terms of the adoption rates but we are unless the beginning because what we are finding out about mobile is that it is not just a way to access information in a new form factor, that was what we initially thought, when the iphone came out it was a web browser a communication tool, it was a phone they brought all

of those technologies together, but what steve jobs didn't show was that it is a way to have a car come to you on demand what steve jobs didn't show -- >> it is uber. >> he didn't show it was a way to have food delivered to you, like instay card, nobody knew, it was unfathomable, not only because they didn't launch the app store so you didn't know there was going to be this type of innovation but not a linear improvement on the pc and at first the phone was just a linear improvement on the pc that would let you have the computer in the pocket but all of a sudden, you know, being able to hail a car had nothing to do with a computer in a pocket, as the whole network and whole infrastructure that didn't exist previously so, you know a -- >> access to a network. >> on demand with gps, a whole logistics platform. >> rose: does uber get credit for that or something that came before uber? >> i mean. >> rose: the phenomenon of the sort of connection to regular people? >> i think that -- i think uber should get most of the credit for bringing that kind of idea

to life, and helping that kind of enter our, enter our imagination, i think before you could press a button and have a car come to you, there weren't that many -- there will be people that say that something actually was created first but nothing had commercial appeal of like pressing a button on your phone and having something change in the physical world and now that trend is very pervasive, you have startups that will do shipping for you on demand, startups that deliver food on demand, startups deliver products on demand so that is just a small example of what mobile does. mobile is going to change healthcare and change financial services and have mobile banking obviously apple pay totally disrupts the totally the banking experience so mobile is not a form factor for consuming information, it is actually a way to interact with the rest of the world. >> rose: what do what do do you think of the apple watch? >> well i have not worn it, i have -- i have touched the surface once, at the launch a few months, a few month ago but i think it is going to be an incredible accessory in the

broader ecosystem of the mobile technologies so, you know being able to have phone calls, notification, phone calls is really cool. >> and tied to your iphone. >> tied to the iphone and just the enter interplay between you have a personal device, you a phone which lets you, you know, consume and interact more a computer which is really a powerful computer, it is really all about just having tech nothing integrity grated into very new and contextual parts of our lives and i think the watch is just an addition to that portfolio. >> who are the three dom than the companies in the cloud? i mean a. >> besides us, you mean? >> >> okay. >> rose: amazon, is it ibm? >> i think it is, you know, by -- there are two ways to think about it, one is by pure matrix and where is the relevance and momentum by metrics you have to say amazon is one of the top companies microsoft is, you know, getting there. >> you can see it by the advertise something. >> you can see it by the -- i mean, that's always the best way to attract things. >> rose: i agree with you -- >> in this case i would say it

is actually being the case that they are making up a lot of progress. you know if you are not thinking about pure cloud computing but thinking of cloud applications -- is a dominant force in the enterprise and you know way more on the enterprise side. google has, is trying to make a big comeback here and trying to invest in this space, they should have own owned the cloud if you think of the infrastructure and scale they have, that should be something theirs for the taking but amazon got there first. >> rose: but that is really an interesting phenomenon to me why didn't google get there first because they are out there with an operative philosophy, is we are going to be in a lot of businesses. >> yes. >> they are not like, say, steve jobs at the beginning, very focused on what we do here. >> yes. >> but google missed, missed it even though they went out and bought at all things the he bought. >> i mean. >> rose: like. >> to google's credit they got, you know, one of the largest operating systems in mobile. they got the largest video platform so they have done incredibly well in sort of

catching the next trends but the one thing they struggled with is just the scale of their cloud computing business relative to amazon or even microsoft but you have others that you really shouldn't count out so ibm has an disinteresting take on this space, they are saying we have massive customer relationships and the world's largest businesses and unique assets from a software standpoint that do things that nobody else can do because they go way deeper into the enterprise and now have partnerships with players like apple and twitter and others who are saying maybe we can add new and unique value to existing technology that isn't enterprise ready that we can deliver that sort of enterprise ready solution for so i would say what ibm and what genie and the team that is doing there is very fascinating to watch and i absolutely wouldn't count them out on that. >> do you have a note moat note around your company. >> one is as we go into, as we go into specific industries, we have this box forestries efforts where we power content for

healthcare institutions like stanford hospital, kaiser, md anderson, we work with life sciences companies. >> rose: these are all clients? >> these are all clients, amgen, as extraas extra 7 is a astrazeneca, what we intend to do is more and more institutions use box to collaborate and share information, that creates a pretty substantive network effect where if you are collaborating with other partners in that i have industry, then more and more players adopt the platform, that has been true in healthcare an life sciences, it is true in media and entertainment where we work with legendary, we work with paramount, dream work, disney, many companies in that space, and the same is going to be a true in real, financial services and many other categories so our job at box is to be billed the best solution to help you securely share and collaborate and that extend to the other apps that you want to use that are going to leverage your data the other institutions that you want to share with that you are going to be sharing through box, with those companies and that all builds up we think a pretty significant moat. >> rose: how conscious of

businesses today who are in the cloud about security? >> so in terms of the tech companies or th enterprises that are buying cloud? >> that are buying. >> so there this has been the biggest change i think in the past year, you know, we have always focused on security, because you can't build a cloud solution that is going to sell to enterprise if you are not focused on security but what what has changed is how important that is to our customer soccer at first it was sort of a necessary thing to kind of check the box to approve the service, then it became really a differentiating factor to our customers and now today, you know, in a post sony, post j.p. morgan, post target breach world, enterprises of all varieties, whether regulated businesses or unregulated businesses care deeply about security and sign security, cyber security, for the first time i think ever we have seen, with we have ceos and boards of directors that are starting to pay a lot more attention to the it investments they are making and to the culture of it in their organization. it with used to be you could

meet with a ceo of an industrial company or an entertainment company or a retailer and they just didn't know what was going on in it, that was somebody else's problem he have a cio to worry about and i visited ceo whose didn't know their cio's names, so that was sort of the and now fast forward to today you have cios who are doing consistent briefings with the board of directors chief information security officers who are reviewing the security strategies with the board of directors. this is something that every ceo in the world a, and especially in america is beginning to pay attention to, and that world, you are going to see more investment in security technologies, next generation more modern technologies like workday and others and for us you know, our big strategy is if you can have a better way of protecting your information and controlling your data, that will actually keep you more secure. >> rose: did you grow up, you grew up in seattle, as i remember. >> yep. >> who are your heroes? you know, i had a lot of people that we looked up to and i

looked up to, so, you know naturally just by proximity you had to care a lot about bill gates and jeff bezos, you know, i studied michael dell, you know, growing up and just seeing what he was doing. you know, at a young age. but i have tried to learn from -- >> rose: was the goal to build a company? you know, with my co14 and other founding feel i always built different ideas and products when we were growing up in high school, so the the,, the people on the founding too team of box grew up together so we would try lots of different ideas and the goal was, you know, always can we solve a really interested, really disinteresting problem and for us after trying, you know, 20 bad ideas, something finally struck and kind of ended up sticking with box. >> rose: you got the, it is great you got the name box. >> thank you, not enough people appreciate that we started at box.net that was relatively cheap and box.com a couple of years later we acquired. >> rose: you acquired the

name. >> you had to buy. >> that was not available. but the idea was could we build a really simple service to just help you manage your information so we wanted something. >> rose: to put in a bach. >> butt in a box. >> rose: that is great. >> thank you. i am glad you appreciate that. >> rose: so i mean where is it going? box going? >> yes, i mean, if we look at where we are today, we are in 48 percent of the fortune 500, we have hundreds of thousands of businesses that use the product and we have 44,000 customers that sort of pay for the enterprise version. you know, there is a lot of growth we are focusing on and just being able to bring the product to more businesses and more enterprises, from there though it is really about delivering transformational experiences, so just two weeks ago we launched box for financial services where we are taking our technology and we are helping everything from private equity firms to asset management firms, to banks, really begin to transform how they are using their data so we worked with kkr, legg mason, usaa, ameriprise. >> rose: what do you mean

transform their data. >> anything any time you have a work flow in and outside of the company you are using this complex set of technologies to be able to share data and if you are in the financial services business, your data is ultimately besides your people, the thing that you are relying on to make the decisions. so you need to be able to move that information through your business very quickly but also need to do it very securely and have all of these regulatory controls and forces in your business. so what we do at box is we make all of that very simple so if you are a private equity firm and you are trying to look at lots of different deals and lots of different projects you have you know, in some cases thousands or hundred of thousands of files and pieces of data you are looking at and we help both secure that information but make it available to the right people. if you are a mortgage lender an going to take in millions and millions of loans you will process on an annual basis you need scalable platforms that will help you manage that information. so in all of these subcategories of financial resources we have technology where the, it can be leveraged

so it can be secure for them to adopt the product. >> on a per industry basis we will have partnerships and with advanced technology to go transform how these businesses use their content and their information. >> if mobile was a huge catalyst for change what is the next huge catalyst? >> well, i think, you know, there is a bunch of things that are impacting our customers and enterprises broadly something we directly relate to and some of which are just going to change their business models. certainly artificial intelligence is a big conversation going on in the valley because, you know, a lot of companies that are trying to figure out what is ai going to mean to my business, what is ai going to mean to healthcare? quha what is it going to mean to financial services? is there going to be machine learning and artificial intelligence? and have advanced automation that is emerging so if you look at what is happening with self driving cars, the ability to have,, you know, automated driving and that is going to completely change the car i have car industry,

that will change electronic markets, what you can now do with large amounts of data, it is called big data in our i have but there are lots of different applications. >> rose: right. >> how is data going to change healthcare where we will be able to deliver better medicine, better predictive health services and healthcare out comes, way more personal lied. there is no reason you should ever visit a doctor where you are not looking at a large amount of data that is applied specifically to your problem and today, the largely every doctor in every and every physician and nurse you are visiting is not using a wealth of data to drive the decisions that they are using to interact with you. you don't have access to your health records, you don't have access to your personal health data, so when you move between hospitals that inefficiency that is created where you have to refill out information, all of those things are going to be impacted by the cloud, by mobile, by on demand technology, by big data our job of course is to help enterprises prepare for that, blue is going to be a lot of different technologies that are created to help customers and help enterprises

move into the future. >> rose: thank you for coming. >> thank you charlie. >> rose: thank you for joining us. see you next time. >> on the next charlie rose a conversation with the accomplished film and theatre the great bill nigh. >> skylight i turned down three times with my agent because i have seen michael gambling play it which is one of the greatest things i have ever said and traditionally used to happen in those days i would turn it down with my agent and he would call me personally and hear the sound of his voice and say, okay, okay okay, when do you want me to come. >> rose: i thought the if david called me i wouldn't take the call. >> no, no. i take the call and then he would say what was all about that? i am coming. when do i have to be there? and that happened with skylight, because i thought, you know, i just thought you have to be kidding in those days. >> rose: why would you do it again? you have already done it. >> i did it again because this is -- this is a question too, to

which i don't absolutely know the answer but i will speculate. one is that i wanted to do a play and there aren't many plays i want to do. it is a great role. i wanted to do it originally in new york. i figure that justified it because i only had ever done it in london. >> rose: right. >> then it turned out people couldn't do that so i did it in london, which was wonderful. i loved the play with all my heart. i think it is a brilliant things thing in the world. it hadn't been produce majorly for a long time. david kind of protected it. and, you know, i love it. so i figured -- >> rose: what do you love about it? >> i love the fact that it is funny in a way that i find heartbreaking. it is -- i love the way that the -- the broader issues are perfectly and invisibly integrated into the story of two people trying to come to terms with one another on a personal

level. i love the fact that it is like -- it is built like -- it is like a bomb. it is like a clock. >> rose: for more about this program and early episodes visit us online at pbs.org and charlierose.com. >> captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

>> god isn't just about worship and faith. god is about making dreams come true in your life today by going to the source. >> announcer: dr. deepak chopra, medical doctor, spiritual teacher and best-selling author, closes the gap between science and faith. >> we aren't outside god. we are participating in god by simply being alive and conscious. >> announcer: simple, practical methods to profoundly improve the quality of your life whatever your beliefs are. >> the reason that god has a future is that once you contact the source there is infinite intelligence, creativity, peace and love. >> announcer: join deepak chopra as we explore "the future of god." (audience applause)