>> rose: welcome to the program. we begin with the big sporting event this weekend in las vegas. it is the fight between floyd mayweather and manny pacquiao. joining us is teddy atlas of espn. >> the funny thing here, i always say it, punches are not made, they are born. this is going to sound contradictory but i'll explain it. pacquiao is the better puncher but hasn't scored a knockout in five years. he's the smaller guy. you figure it out. he moved up a lot of weight classs. i don't think he tease puncher here. meth, sr. the boxer. mayweather is the bigger guy. if there is a knockout, i figure it to come on the side of pacquiao, the born puncher. if there is a knockout, i think

it will come on the side of mayweather. >> rose: corey lee, his restaurant is restaurant benu. >> it can't be about notoriety because that's a by-product of doing something well. you have to find satisfaction in coming to work every day and doing the same things over and over. slowly, you know, it evolves because there's a creative, artistic aspect to cooking at a certain level but ultimately is what you make with your hands. >> rose: we conclude with noah baumbach, the movie called "while we're young," starring ben stiller and naomi watts. >> i wanted to do something in a traditional comedy movie tradition. comedies for adults. directors like mike nichols or

cindy pollack, you know, are made over the course of their career and mainstream comedies but they were about people and the laughs often came from the characters and you cared about the people. but they could be broad. there was a kind of flexibility to them. this is my attempt to do my version of it. >> rose: teddy atlas, corey lee and noah baumbach when we continue. >> rose: additional funding provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications

from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: on saturday night manny pacquiao and floyd mayweather will face off in what many are calling the fight of the century. each fight is poised to earn well more than $100 million. the bout first proposed nearly six years ago but neither camp could agree on terms such as testing for performance-enhancing drugs. joining me from las vegas is teddy atlas boxing commentator for espn has trained some of the sports' biggest names include mike tyson and michael morrow. please to have had him back on the program. give me the sense of las vegas today two days before the big fight mpghts it's not exactly what it was set out to be. this was supposed to be a reward to the regular boxing fans, you know main street boxing. it's more like wall street boxing. i have to speak it the way it is. excitement. everybody's talking who you got,

who's going to win. but the regular fans have waited six years for the fight. everyone gives credit to the promoters and the fight. without the fans, there is no fight. the regular boxing fans are the lifeblood of this sport. they won't be able to afford a ticket in this place saturday night. as a matter of fact, they have to pay $10 for the weigh-in. that's as close as they'll get a lot of them, to seeing the fighters. they're not even going to get that because the ticket are scalped for $200 and upwards for the weigh-in. it's supposed to be excitement for the people, reward for the people, the boxing fans who have been starving for a good fight. not exactly that but parente of excitement for the fight. everybody trying to climb around figuring out how can i get to the weigh in. when's the last time you heard if i can't get to the fight maybe i can get to the weigh in. obviously it's on everybody's

mind. >> rose: is it because they haven't had a great fight in a long time or just because people have begun over the years to worry about the feature of boxing and all of a sund something comes along that's exciting and they get excited? >> the people after six years were imagining this is what they wanted and in some ways the fans have been sort of like the lost tribes out in the desert. they're walking and walking and they're dispersing. >> rose: could be a great fight. >> could be or the fans could wind up with sand in their mouth instead of water. but it could be a great fight. but it's a fight that probably should have taken place five six years ago. these are different times. doesn't mean it's not going to be a great fight still. ali and frazier, a brutal fight. they were more available. all that was left was the championship character and that

showed in a brutal but fascinating fight. >> rose: who do you like in this fight? >> look, i'm not the betting capital of the world. there is a reason why mayweather is a favorite. mayweather is the naturally bigger guy, he's the guy that is the counter puncher. manny pacquiao has to be aggressive. when you have to be aggressive chance is you might run into a counterpunch, and mayweather will be looking for that and looking to right end a southpaw killer. it lands against lefties and pacquiao is a lefty. having said that, i understand that. i think that the greatest strength of mayweather, the reason he's sporting 7 and 0 and why we're here it's his defense. he's a conservative guy, a careful guy, he doesn't take chances, punches well. i think his greatest strength is defense and also his greatest

weakness. i think manny has the hand speed, foot speed and the volume punching to exploit his defense but sometimes he goes into it too much. times floyd slips and slides too much and doesn't fight back, he gets intoxicated with his own defense. that's why i give manny a chance with his speed to get in and out before the counterpunches come to steal outhustle and outwork around where mayweather is just too defensive. >> rose: as you know well, fighting is about talent. it's also about will. who has the greatest will in this fight? >> so far, there's only one man who has not learned how to lose. that's mayweather. he has not learned how to lose. pacquiao going back three fights was knocked out cold. it's attached to not only skill

but confidence belief in yourself. who believes in himself more than a guy who never lost? right now until proven differently you would have to say mayweather. but you also have to say a fair argument mayweather's will has never really been truly tested in the way that maybe manny pacquiao can test it. that will be interesting. >> rose: who has been avoiding whom? that's a good we. who's been avoiding whom? six years ago when this fight was first proposed mayweather was -- we can only go according to what they're saying -- said he was ready to fight the fight but he wanted manny. he wanted manny to take a lipid style blood test to prove he wasn't on steroids. manny said no so the fight didn't happen. now you look here in the future, i have to tell you manny is a smaller guy. i said they're different guys,

different fighters and sizes. manny is not as big. i don't know why. i have no proof of it but the fact is mayweather looks bigger. the reason this happened is pacquiao with tax problems, with a lot overthings going on in his life, it's unfortunate, i hate to hear a fighter who goes in the ring andhouse a chance every time he's in the ring, to come out of the ring with less of himself. to hear after making all that money that he's got money problems but apparently he does. he had more of a reason to go to the table. he made concessions. he made a lot of concessions to make mayweather fight. who made the fight? i guess you say pacquiao by making all those confessions. he doesn't make the confessions we're not talking now. >> rose: who has the best

corner man? >> that's good question. mayweather has his father. they haven't always gotten along but they're getting along good now, apparently. his uncle roger was the one who was in his life really, more and involved in his athletic career really more. he said he's not a part of the camp as much. he's not the hands-on guy anymore, it's more of the father. but mayweather is a little bit like mohamed ali. nobody trained ali. he made his own decisions and did what his instincts told him and the great confidence and belief he had in himself. but he went his own way to his own drum. he listened to himself. mayweather doesn't listen to anybody but pacquiao listens to freddie roach. pacquiao has the edge because he listens to his guy. mayweather kind of does his own thing. >> rose: understanding the difference in the weight class

how would you compare mayweather to mohamed ali? >> well, i mean, they both believe in themselves. they can be a little arrogant sometimes. that goes with great belief sometimes and great accomplishment, arrogance partners up to that and becomes a cousin to that sometimes. they both are promoted and know how to make money, but ali had much more social significance. you know, mayweather doesn't. >> rose: right. he does haven't that social significance. he hasn't attached himself to some kind of social endeavor or belief that a lot of these guys could. ali did, whether you believe in him or not and ali took a risk to do that. mayweather, you know, is pretty

conservative. he doesn't take a risk, the same way he fights doesn't take a risk very conservative. >> rose: could mike tyson ever been the greatest fighter ever except for... >> except -- mike tyson could have been the greatest fighter forever except he had no character. you know tyson was a shooting star, a meteor. he burned bright, great got all the attention, was sensational really was. no disclaiming that. but ali joe lewis sugar ray robinson, all those great fighters, they were planets. why were they planets? they had substance, that was their earth. they overcame a lot of controversy, a lot of problems and a lot of different things and issues going on. they had the character, the inner soul, the ability to make proper choices outside the ring when you had to make them and to stand by them. the ability to camp out more than yourself. tyson never cared about anything

orthothan himself. tyson never would have been great because he did not -- he had the great skill and he could punch from either side of the plate but he never ever had that great character that i just talked about these great champions that they had to be called special. >> rose: will this fight go the distance or will somebody knock it out in the early rounds or the middle rounds? >> you know, i think the fight will go the distance but the funny thing here -- i always say it -- punches are not made, they are born. this is going to sound contradictory, but i'll explain it pacquiao was a born puncher but hasn't scored a knockout in five years. he's the smaller guy. he's moved up a lot of weight classes. i don't think he tease puncher here. mayweather is the boxer. mayweather is the bigger guy. if there is a knockout, i believe it will come on the side

to have pacquiao, the born puncher. if there is a knockout, i think it will come on the side of mayweather. but attend of the day, i believe there is going to be a decision and, believe it or not, i think it's going to be a controversial one. >> rose: thank you ted. it's great to talk to you. >> my pleasure, charlie. >> rose: we'll be right back. stay with us. >> rose: corey lee is here. he is a james beard award-winning chef and owner of the restaurant benu in san francisco. benu gives its name to the first cookbook of the cherif. he reveals recipes and principles whined his cuisine. here's a look. >> a fellow asked me what kind of restaurant benu was. my first answer is an american restaurant. it's open to the influence of

all different kinds of cultures. the book is about a menu at benu, and hopefully we can convey the experience of dining at benu. food is identity. it's the most revealing thing about you, a about culture where you come from, how you live, what's important to you. they go hand in hand. it's really about finding yourself in your work and understanding that there's meaning in finding yourself in your work. >> rose: pleased to have corey lee at this table for the first time. welcome. >> thank you for having me. >> rose: are you a friend of david chang's or mine? david's said remarkable things about you. what influence did he have on you. >> he had a big influence on me. he struck out on his own in an original and new way. this was 2004.

at the time i was living three blocks from the original momofookoo. he came from the same background as a lot of us being fine dining cooks and trying to make it happen in new york city. he went his on path. he decided to do something he was really passionate about and create his own style and really cook for people. and he broke down all the barriers in fine dining and that happened in a very exciting time for restaurants and diners. >> rose: the amazing thing about you, and this may be for a lot of great chefs, is that you have worked with some of the great chefs. you've worked in great restaurants. >> yeah, i was fortunate to have amazing teachers and mentors. although there's a difference between a teacher and a mentor. >> rose: yeah. but i have been fortunate where each chef i've worked for invested in me and cared what i

was doing next outside their own kitchen and would send me to a next restaurant. >> rose: describe your cuisine. >> it's a tough con. the big part of the reason i wrote the book was this attempt to explain not only to an audience or our staff but myself really what we're doing in this restaurant. it's definitely not a cuisine that can be summed up with a couple of words although i think a lot of people look for the very easy term or genre. it's a restaurant that's american for me and modern in the truest sense in that we're trying to create a new experience for people an experience that can only have better restaurants. but ultimately, it's an american restaurant specific to san francisco. >> rose: what's the korean influence? >> there's a lot of seasoning that takes the cue from korean cuisine. some of the fermented so i sauces and other sauces we

season with that more than salt, so it's more about deeper flavors than just the seasoning. and there's the korean influence that is transparent. there's a humbleness to korean aesthetics which i think is different and unique in asian cuisine and we borrow and are influenced and are inspired by all those things. >> rose: you said the cook at benu often explains asian flavors and ideas and aesthetics can harmonize with western ones. >> it's the harmony of the different cultures that interests me. a lot of that was spurred by living in northern california and san francisco where there's a huge asian influence. 35, 40% asian most of them are cancantonese, chinese and there's an assimilation in san francisco that i think is unique to that city. >> rose: you said there's --

david said corey's path is perfection. there's no better clinician in the nation pound for pound, he is one of the best chefs on earth. we like having things like that said about us but is this true, the essence at the core of you this pursuit of perfection? >> it's not so much a pursuit of perfection. it's a pursuit of doing something you believe in. whether that's perfect i'm not sure if that's the most important thing. i think there's things that we do that i know isn't perfect but i feel good about it and i can commit myself to that. it really has to do with the commitment. you know, i have to be able to commit yourself to your work and the first step to that is believing in what you're doing and i have been fortunate where i thought that my entire career. >> rose: why this back now? i finally have something that we can document.

that's an important first step. you have to want to say something. over the last five years, i think, we've started to carve an identity for ourselves. it's an opportunity to reach a larger audience than we can fit in our restaurant. it's great for the staff. they can see their work is something beyond what they make every day. it's far reaching and a morale booster for them. it felt like the right time to work on a book. >> rose: it's structured around a 33-course tasting. >> it is. but we actually don't serve a 33-course tasting. >> rose: that's too much. it really is. you can't keep someone engaged for that long. but i explained it a little bit in the book where i don't think anyone looks at the book and they want literally a tasting menu. it's not about that. it's seeing the progression of a menu, almost like a meditation of a menu, talking about the dishes, the ingrinds, the

influences. and if there's a few more courses to make the bookwork, who's counting. >> rose: but this is the love of food that you have. >> it's the love of food but also the love of craft. >> rose: craft. so someone comes to you and they say i want to be a chef, and you say the most important thing to have is the love of craft and they say what does that mean? what would you say? >> that means making something over and over, repetition, working with your hands, and that being a rewarding experience. it can't be about owning a restaurant one day because that might not happen. it can't be about any kind of notoriety because that's a by-product of doing something well. you really have to find satisfaction in coming to work every day and doing the same things over and over. slowly it evolves because there is a creative aspect to cooking at a certain level but ultimately comes out to what you

make with your hands. >> rose: and that's a tactile satisfying feeling? >> absolutely. making something you feel is done well, serving it and immediately getting the satisfaction. that's the great thing about restaurants is there are moments of success all day and all night long when you're feeding people. >> rose: tell me about your biography. you came from south korea. >> yeah. i had a pretty transient upbringing. my father was an engineer. he was sent all around the world and we moved several times growing up. i came here when i was fairly young, but my father moved back to south korea because of the company he was working for. from then on, my family was kind of split up. my sisters my mother, my father stayed in korea and i stayed in america, and that's when i started working in restaurants and eventually traveled abroad

working in restaurants. >> rose: paris? paris, london, came back to new york. >> rose: always teaching yourself what? >> i think it was honing a work ethic that was really the backbone of anything i would do later on. i think i had that instilled in me at a fairly early age. it was this idea of you have to put in the work if you're going to get anything out of it, and pursuing it, not waiting for someone to just teach you and pick you up. >> rose: you have to wait for it to come to you. >> no, i don't think you can. >> rose: it goes beyond cooking. it goes to life itself. >> i agree, absolutely. >> rose: ho is how is cuisine different today when you go around the world? >> cuisine has changed a lot in the last decade or so, the last

generation. chefs have definitely a bigger voice than maybe a generation ago and i think diners are looking for restaurants where they can experience something singular. >> rose: i do, too. they go to a restaurant because of the chef or the style of food that restaurant is cooking, not just to participate in a lifestyle experience where they're pampered for a couple of hours. they really want something that's unique. they want to see personality in their cooking and that's something new. that's something in the last generation or so. >> rose: the notion of excelling, i'm looking at thomas keller saying about you, corey's thoughtfulness excelled in what he was doing. he was the precocious talent who took the long view and was willing to pay his dues. >> in this world where chefs are becoming younger and younger, if you're a chef and you want to open a restaurant, you have more opportunities than before.

certainly over the years i had opportunities before i opened benu, but i felt i wasn't ready. there were times when i was offered a sous chefo a sous chef or a managing position, i would go on. there's times when you take those positions and you can't go back is that why aren't you in new yok? >> i thought i would be in new york. i came to new york to look for restaurant spaces. one place i looked at was this old space called homeward on in soho. i used to go there when i was a teenager and it was a special place for me. it was the day lehman brothers went under. it was a volatile time in new york city and made me take a step back and question why am i going to new york? why do i feel the need to open a restaurant in new york? the more i thought about it, it

didn't make sense for me. i had been working in california ten years by that time. i had relationships with purveyors who knew what i wanted. i had relationships with guests who had come to our restaurant. there are people i wanted to work when we opened, it was crazy to give that up. i look back and think if we had opened in new york it would have been a very different restaurant. >> rose: benu means what? the phoenix bird in egyptian mythology that stands for long life regeneration -- >> rose: the long view is always there for you. >> exactly. starting a new restaurant, a new business. it's risky. you aspire to have longevity. for those of us who uprooted our lives and moved to san francisco to start the project the idea of the phoenix bird resonated with us. >> rose: what does it mean for

san francisco restaurants that you're so close to silicon valley the tech venue? >> it's important to the dining culture in san francisco and not just dining, but the culture. it's synonymous with innovation newness, embracing new things, opened mindedness, the future and it's this hub for this new world. then there's also the very pragmatic aspects where we have an industry that can support all the restaurants. that's very important too. it's a very good time for san francisco and we're lucky to work as chefs there. >> rose: these are images from the book. number one is the 1,000 year old quail egg. there it is. >> that's the first course on the tasting menu. it's an egg that's preserved through having a high ph, so it's almost of a cevice which is

acidity. we serve it with a classic soup. >> rose: the lobster. it has a liquid-centered dumpling. >> rose: all right. beggar's purse. >> made from acorns and then the three things around an oak tree -- acorns, pigs fed on acorns and black roots at grow around the oak trees. >> rose: do you love pigs as much as david chang. >> i love pigs. >> rose: what do you mean? the flavor of pork is such a round flavor marries with seafood poultry, not gamey like lamb, not as intense as beef. it's almost like a seasoning for

me. >> rose: all right the number four is pork oyster pork belly. >> that's a variation and probably one of the more technical things we do. it's a variation of a korean dish. we make a kimchi stock and turn it into appliable sheet and wrap everything around that. >> rose: your mother said she was horrified when she realized you served kim chi on your menu. >> pleasantly shocked. >> rose: why would she be shocked? >> i had a hard time with it when i was growing up. it's very pungent. living in a small apartment when it's hot and smelling that very intense, fermented aroma of

kimshe, it's very intense. >> rose: number five is ice fish on ice. >> ice fished, very simple, inspired by the idea of a japanese aesthetic. >> rose: combining simplicity, beauty and subtlety. >> exactly. >> rose: six is spring porridge with sea urchin. >> our california local cooking. we have asparagus sea urchin from santa barbara, things that come into season. >> rose: tell me about the importance of how food looks. >> you know my relationship with food aesthetics has changed over the years and now, for me, it's about trying to present things in a natural form. how do you make something look delicious but not make it look like there are 20 chefs in the

back to have the kitchen with tweezers and knives ma i have in lating these -- manipulating these things? it's a challenge. it's a challenge but also an important thing to let food present itself. i think it's very important. >> rose: you've said about your cooking style that it evades definition, but has it changed over time? >> it has. i think when we first opened, i had one foot in this european style of cooking and the other foot was in an area that was exploring and, over the years -- and some of this has to -- you know, just getting more confidence. i have been more interested in exploring how eastern nation greens can work in the context of a western format. >> rose: do you want to own a korean restaurant? >> i do. >> rose: because that's who you are? >> it's who i am. it's a cuisine that resonates with me. i feel like it's been poorly represented abroad, and i feel like there's a lot of potential there. >> rose: what does it mean to be the good will ambassador of

seoul, korea? >> to be honest it's an honor more than anything and basically what it means is you're there as a resource for them if they ever need to contact you for some kind of counsel on food promoting food in seoul centered around tourism. >> rose: is a third michelin star, what is that about? is it reak anything of -- is it a recognition of quality? is it about a unique approach to food? is it about satisfied customers? >> you know, for me, and this is probably not what you'd expect -- and this is not something i think i would have said before i received three stars -- but in some way it's a very western and european validation of what we're doing. >> rose: a validation...

a validation. not because that's what makes me feel good about the work i'm doing. but the michelin guide is such a traditional french guide and for them to say benu is three stars and worth that journey there's a validation there. >> rose: congratulations. thank you very much. >> rose: great to have you on this program. >> thank you, charlie. >> rose: i look forward to seeing you in san francisco at some point. thank you for joining us. back in a moment. stay with us. >> rose: noah baumbach is here. he is a director whose movies include "the squid and the whale" and his latest is "while we're young," right, sharp and dead on accurate about the way we live now. it's not a film about eternal youth but rather about coming to terms with growing older. here is the trailer. >> ...

and the wolf came -- >> he blows it down. what happens in the middle? i didn't know you guys wanted kids. >> you should do it. you would make such good parents (baby crying) ♪ >> i really love your film. that scene with the dogs around the garbage how did you stage that? >> i said, hey shoot those dogs. beautiful. >> want to come eat a bite with us? >> why are we hanging out with 25-year-olds? >> we were 25. it will be fun! >> we met this interesting couple. >> i like how engaged they are. they're -- their apartment is full of everything we threw out but it looks good. >> i love you! watch it! ♪

>> i've learned you can allow yourself to be surprised by what you encounter. (rap music) >> we're worried about you guys. what's with the hat? you're an old man with a hat. >> i stopped thinking of myself as a child imitate an adult. ♪ somebody knocking on the door ♪ >> you're on fire! are you okay, son? >> ow! you have arthritis in your knee. >> arthritis? yes, i usually just say it once. >> what's happening to us? i am trying to make it both materialist and intellectual. >> a black shaw shank? no. so what's it about?

♪ >> i don't want this to be every time, you want to have a baby. >> not every time. >> rose: good actors. good group. >> rose: what movie were you making? what were you intending to make? i mean, this. >> well, there is sort of the movie you intend to make and the movie no matter what your intentions are you make and discover as you make it. but i wanted to make -- i did have a kind of maybe more so than some of my past movies i had an idea that i wanted to do something that was in kind of a comic tradition or comic movie tradition. it was comedies for adults, things that -- directors i love like mike nichols or cindy pollack or woody allen, they're made over the course of their career and they were main stream

comedies but they were about people. they cared about people but there was a flexibility to them. this was my attempt to do my version of it. >> rose: is it about getting older? >> yeah, it is. it's about getting older and knowing yourself as you get older. >> rose: and you open with that quote we saw in the trailer. >> yeah, which i saw wally shawn and gregory did one of their -- >> rose: talks. yeah. they work on these plays for years and years and do these sort of -- sometimes they perform it in people's apartments and this is even in a town house in the village that i saw it and it's wally's translation, too, which, you know, when i heard that exchange i thought, this is kind of related to what i'm working on. >> rose: you have said that --

i think, that the experience of getting older was the driving force of this movie. your experience. >> yeah. i mean, i think -- i mean, all my movies, i'm sort of trying to do this to some degree, is both sort of, you know there's a tradition in movies of, you know, movies where people are in therapy or people have sort of major breakthroughs and you accept them because that's part of a movie. a movie can't show, you know an entire session of somebody's therapy. they have to show, like the ones that really count, and, you know, or i wanted to do -- i kind of am trying to i guess you know, show how sort of the changes we go through in our lives are not always something we're aware of and something you maybe realize two years later that this happened. >> rose: that you were evolving but didn't see it at the time. >> yeah and yon, sometimes you

go out the wrong way to come back the right way and often you do. so i guess i'm sort of trying to make that cinematic in a way. >> rose: i mean, that's how the movie came about too isn't it? >> yeah, and i worked on it for a while. i mean i had different incarnations of it. i wanted to do something about couples, too and how couples interact with one another and how, you know, you're with your person and you go out with another, you know, friends of yours and sort of what you might project onto them, like are they okay? they seem like something's wrong. >> rose: or they seem like something's right. >> yes, and you idealize them. but it's really often about you and what's going on. it's easier to talk about other people than yourself. >> rose: talk about josh and cornelia. >> well, they're married and -- >> rose: ben stiller and naomi in the movie. >> yeah, they have been married for a little while, and he is a

document rifilmmaker who's now into his ninth or tenth year depending on when you ask him of the same documentary and he's stuck and he's, you know having trouble admitting it, perhap. and i wanted to present a marriage where there wasn't anything necessarily overtly wrong, you know. that you couldn't necessarily say, hey, you know. >> rose: yeah. but they on some level i always felt, knew something needed to change and needed to shake them out of, you know a kind of, i suppose a certain routine. you know, when they meet this younger couple, that at least triggers it. >> rose: and makes them think about living a different kind of life? >> yeah. well, i think -- yeah. the younger couple is almost --

they're many things. they sort of in some ways represent a different generation they represent youth, they represent the kids that they don't have. i mean, they're also -- ben and naomi's characters don't have a child, they tried and it didn't happen for them. it's sort of one of the many ways they're coming to terms with, you know things in life that don't necessarily go the way you dream they're going to go. >> rose: ben stiller says noah baumbach has very human moments and observations that are spot on. i've seen that same thing happen in my life. in every interchange there is something going on underneath the surface but they're very subtlengs. he's all about the small nuances that have a huge impact on us. finds humor in all the uncomfortable, awkward moments we have but he's never going for the joke. does that resonate with you? >> it's nice. >> rose: it clearly flatters

you. >> it's nice. yeah. i mean, that's what i hope i'm doing, anyway. >> rose: finding some eternal truth about the way we live our lives? >> well, and, i mean, that would be -- you know i'm not trying for something quite that big but i think i -- >> rose: some observation. yeah, and exchanges between people, finding, you know sort of humanity or the way -- you know, sometimes it's even the way we talk. you know, the way -- dialogue can almost -- you can kind of discover it, i can anyway, when i'm writing, discover these things in writing dialogue because that's what comes easy to me. the other stuff you just kind of, you know you hope if you do enough right it's going to reverberate in bigger ways. >> rose: this is clip two where josh and younger friend jamie played by adam driver

they're talking on the street in manhattan. >> remember, ask the questions you're interviewing him. he would be lucky to invest in your film. >> okay. talk about it, short and to the point. >> right on the street man! talk about war power make it relevant to him. be yourself. >> right. everyone else is taken. it's beautiful today! we have an appointment friday. >> you got it, already? you shot it two days ago. >> i know, i was up all night. you're going to be okay, josh. don't be stressed. take a day or two make sure you like it. >> i'd like to take ten years. you think it's going to be totally brilliant. ♪ (eye of the tiger playing) >> i remember when this song was considered bad. but it's working. remember! you're not going have this

opportunity! it's so much bet when were you say it! >> whoo! >> rose: adam driver why him? well, i worked with adam on "frances ha" and had a great experience with him, but he's such a compelling actor. i mean, he's so interesting. everything he does is interesting. you know, i felt like, with this part, because ben's character kind of falls for him it's almost like, you know, a kind of love story in some way, at least for a while, and he, you know, while i'm having fun with that in some ways, you know i didn't want to sell out ben's character. i wanted you to invest in this affection. and adam is one of these guys i would follow anywhere. he's so interesting. just his body language, the way he moves.

he talked about he's almost like water. he could pass through you or envelop you. he kind of found some kind of physical equivalent to that. >> rose: the "new yorker" said music brings out the best in baumbach. what role should music play in a movie? >> well, with this movie there was -- you you know, it was similar to technology in a way because i was having fun with a younger couple listening to stuff from the '80s and ben and naomi's adolescence. but, you know, i think this sort of notion of character and character tastes and how characters represent themselves is something i'm interested in a lot. so often the music they play is kind of an extension of that. >> rose: so you and music. music, obviously, you, i think own every album paul mccartney

and david bowie ever released. >> sure. >> rose: is it simply because you enjoy music or music has some real enfliens on your life? >> it's both. and music and movies is, you know, something, you know it's just one of the major elements you know, for me. you know when i go into a movie of what is the sound and, you know, musically what is the sound. another element of the movie is a timeless element was brought to a contemporary story but connected me to cramer vs. cramer which is a movie sort of from my childhood that's not a comedy, it's obviously very different than this movie, but i think that sort of new york and new york of my childhood there's something kind of -- i don't know it's a -- it's that time of my life that i always

seemed to sort of revisit you know, because i think it stimulates creativity for me so initially i was listening because it kind of brought me back to -- i don't know, made me feel creative and felt right with the movie. >> rose: your second collaboration with james murphy? >> yeah, and james did original music, too, and he became a friend after "greenberg" when he did the music for that and he did some really kind of great stuff for this. >> rose: take a look at this. this is the third clip back to josh pitch ago documentary to a hedge fund manager. >> do you know what the percentage of african-american adult males currently in jail? >> i don't. take a guess. 60%. jesus, no. it's over 9%. it's nearly one in ten african-american adult males nearly a million and a half. >> million and a half? that's a lot. >> it's insane but people don't realize this. they think because we have a

black present -- >> like a black shaw shank, but real. >> no, there's a section an act about a function of race in the prison industrial complex but the film is likely about how power works in america. do you know the story "ray" ira mendellstein? we have over 100 hours. >> a movie with over 100 hours? >> rose:. no, we cut it. there's a joke in the movie where ben is asked to describe his movie it takes him forever and his default after about five minutes of rambling is it's about america. so i thought, well, let's have him -- put him in front of probably his worth nightmare and ask him to try to describe what he's doing. >> rose: do you write every

movie you make? >> yeah, everything i've directed. >> rose: like the music, and direct? >> yeah, obviously i have great people i collaborate with. >> rose: but you can't do it anyout ware? >> not really. it's how i see it. it's how i kind of approach, you know, the whole thing. >> rose: and who represents the best of what you want to be and do? >> you mean like -- >> rose: woody allen. woody allen, of course. >> rose: mike nichols. well, i mean, with this movie, like i mentioned those guise. woody allen when i was growing up certainly was -- you know, he was -- he was acting, too, but he would -- you felt these movies were real personal expressions and there was kind of a voice there that felt personal and you felt you thought you knew him.

i really responded to that. there's a lot of european filmmakers, too, and obviously a lot of directors who don't write their material -- like martin scorsese says, he doesn't write everything he does but he's so present in the movies in a way. i think from a young age i kind of wanted my approach to filmmaking came from an an authorial position. >> rose: do you identify with -- >> yeah, my contemporaries. i'm friends with some of them. people like them and paul thomas anderson, alexander payne, people who are really -- you know, you feel them in every movie you're doing. >> rose: you can see and feel them. >> yes. >> rose: i think scoot scott ruden

said you could turn psychology into behavior. what did he mean? >> well, i think it's connected to what we were talking about earlier in that i think there's a kind of psychological truth. you know, i'm asked a lot if my movies are autobiographical, but i think there is sort of psychological and emotional truth that i'm going for in them and, you know, i want to be true to the psychology -- from my position, be true to the psychology of the characters and i suppose in a lot of ways my task with each of these movies is finding something cinematic and physical that kind of represents that. >> rose: when you talk about eric rohmer, you named your son rohmer. >> i did. >> rose: you call him rohmer or something else? >> i call him ro. when you're naming your kid, you don't say it as much and then

when he comes, you shorten it. >> rose: he's okay with that? yeah. when he gets older he may have more of a preference. >> rose: where do you want this career as a filmmaker go? is the extension of the kinds of things you're doing getting deep around better at it? >> i hope so. since "the squid and the whale," i have been lucky in the way that i have been -- each thing i've written, i've made, and that's a great place to be. you know, i would like to continue doing that. i mean, i think, you know i don't have -- i mean, i get asked -- sometimes people say, you know, do you want to go, you know, make a marvel or things like that -- >> rose: and you say what, no? >> i say no because it's not how i come at it. i mean, i don't know -- this is

the -- the pleasure for me the doing it the way i'm doing it and i -- it's -- you know and i never thought of it a different way. it's a funny question because i almost don't -- you know, when i was maybe ten or something i may have wanted to make raiders or something like that, but which i still love, but i wouldn't now. it's just not something that would -- >> rose: but then you committed to small films. >> i suppose they're never going to be, you know as big as -- >> rose: well, i'm not talking about those. you're talking about raiders of the lost ark or marvel movies, that's a different thing. >> i guess i'm also banking on the fact that i feel like people want to see something that has you know -- that they can

connect to and it can be a sort of similar but also different experience. >> rose: their own life connects to something in the movie. >> yeah, which i like when i see movies and i feel like there's room for both. >> rose: what about mistress america. >> that's a movie greta gerwig and i did again after frances and that's going to come out later this year. >> rose: you premiered at sundance. >> we did. i didn't plan i would have two movies in the same year but somehow they bumped into each other. it will come out in the fall. >> rose: great to have you here. >> great to be here. thanks. >> rose: "while we're young" is in theaters now. many critics are saying it's his best and most successful film, a

reeceent headline from the atlantic said "while we're young" is noah baumbach's plottiest movie. that, too. thank you for joining us. see you next time. for more about this program and earlier episodes, visit us online at pbs.org and charlierose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

>> rose: additional funding provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide.

>> the following kqed production was produced in high definition. [ ♪music♪ ] >> yes, check, please! people! >> it's all about licking your plate. >> the food is just fabulous. >> i should be in psychoanalysis for the amount of money i spent in restaurants. >> i had a horrible experience. >> i don't even think we were in the same restaurant. >> leslie: and everybody, i'm sure, saved room for those