>> rose: welcome to the program. we begin this evening with the story of "deflategate" and the legacy of tom brady. joining me the preeminent sports reporter peter king of "sports illustrated." >> what i'm uneasy about this report is some day when tom brady dies his obituary in the "new york times," if the n.f.l. comes down hard on him in this case, the second paragraph of his obituary in the "new york times" is going to be about how the n.f.l. slammed him for cheating in 2015. and when i read the 139 pages of the report and the 104 pains of the appendix, i'm not positive i can't sit here and swear at all that tom brady was involved was the mastermind, ordered the code red anything like that. there's a lot there -- there's a

lot of evidence there but some of the evidence really makes me uneasy. >> rose: we continue this evening with david mccullough the writer and narrative historian, latest book called "the wright brothers." >> we need lessons in appreciation. so many of these people that we hear about them in school history courses for about ten minutes and then we move on. oh, the wright brothers, they were those clever bicycle mechanics and they invented the airplane. that's hardly a fraction of the story. the idea they had tremendous interest in art architecture and photography. there was no -- they were fully alive intellectually, mentally but they also had this driving sense of purpose that i feel is essential to high achievement on

that scale, on that level. >> rose: we conclude this evening with warren buffet, the 84-year-old businessman celebrated the 50th 50th anniversary of berkshire hathaway in omaha this past weekend. one of the things was a spoof on a floyd mayweather fight that you will never see. >> warren buffet is here! hey! mayweather! you're going down! >> rose: peter king on tom brady and deflating footballs. david mccullough on the wright brothers. and warren buffet in a spoof about floyd mayweather next

>> rose: additional funding provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: the n.f.l. released its long awaited report on "deflategate" this week. the conclusion, new england patriots were using illegally underinflated footballs in last year's conference championship game and quarterback tom brady probably knew of the plan. joining me is peter king of "sports illustrated," he is the one person i wanted to talk to about that. no one knows more about football and no one has reported on it so well for so long. peter, tell me what you make of the report. >> charlie, i think that in the

last four or five major discipline cases involving the n.f.l. with playing rules involved -- you know, the new orleans saints and the bounty thing the atlanta falcons and making artificial crowd noise in their stadium -- the n.f.l. had a smoking gun in every single one of those. here not only does the n.f.l. not have a smoking gun it has a large amount of circumstantial evidence but it doesn't have that smoking gun and it involves one of the greatest players of all time and charlie, what i'm uneasy about with this report is some day when tom brady dies, his obituary in the "new york times," if the n.f.l. comes down hard on him in this case, the second paragraph of his obituary in the "new york times" is going to be about how the n.f.l. slammed him for cheating in 2015, and when i read the 139 pages of the report and the 104

pages of the appendix, i'm not positive -- i can't sit here and swear at all that tom brady was involved, was the mastermind, ordered the code red, anything like that. there's a lot there -- there's a lot of evidence there, but some of the evidence really makes me uneasy. >> rose: okay, so let's start with way back when. how did this case begin? how was this discovered? >> well, the week before the afc championship game the general manager of the indianapolis colts ryan sent an email to the n.f.l. saying it's well known around the league that the patriots are suspected to use underinflated footballs because their quarterback tom brady likes a little sorter more pliable football, especially in inclement weather. so before the game, the officiating supervisor from the n.f.l. basically warned the

officials on the scene in new england, you know, be on the lookout for these underinflated footballs and, you know, if need be, we'll check 'em. you know, if we suspect that some of the footballs are underinflated. charlie, there was about an eight-to-ten-minute period, you can't tell exactly from reading the report where after the footballs were okayed for use on the field during the game, the fellow who runs the officials' locker room took the footballs, in violation of what he's supposed to do -- those footballs are supposed to be with the referee the entire time -- but he took them and video surveillance shows him going into a men's room, a bathroom near the field and staying in there for 100 seconds and it's theoretically possible he was either using the men's room or he was sticking a needle in 13 footballs. >> rose: what does he say? he denied sticking you know,

the needle in the footballs, and he was caught in a couple of lies in the course of four different interviews. one lie was i never went in there. another lie was i used the urine. there's no urine in there it's only a toilet. so i'm not sure how much you can trust this guy jim mcnaily. >> rose: and th there are e-mails between them. >> yes. >> rose: so let me go back. after that what happened to this report? >> well, what happened is that late in the first half, the colts intercepted a football. they took the football on the sidelines and the equipment guy thought it felt slightly derinflated. so they informed the n.f.l. of this and they went down in the official's locker room at halftime, measured all footballs including four footballs that the indianapolis colts were using -- they didn't have time to do all their footballs -- and discovered that most of the patriots' footballs were underinflated and that's what

launched the investigation the following monday. >> rose: is that evidence? it is evidence but charlie i'll say this, one of the gauges that measured the air in the colts' footballs, one of the two gauges found three of the four footballs were also underinflated. so, i mean, that's one of the slight problems. even though the patriots' footballs were clearly underinflated more than the colts' footballs were, the colts footballs were also underinflated. so that's not definitive proof by any stretch. >> rose: so then the n.f.l. and roger goodell appoint ted wells a well-known trial lawyer, highly regarded, hugely respected to do an investigation the same way they had robert mueller do the investigation. >> and the same way ted wells did the investigation into the bullying accusations with the miami dolphins. >> rose: right. you have this guy ted wells a

respected lawyer do the investigation, it takes a while to do it. why did it take so long? >> i think that's a good question to ask. it's a difficult topic, and i think they got the run around for some people. it took a while to get tom brady to talk to them. >> rose: he didn't release -- he didn't release his cell phone records. now, the two people who worked for the patriots who were in charge of the footballs, they both released their cell phones so the n.f.l. found some incriminating cell phone records both in terms of calls. tom brady after not speaking to, you know, john who was basically the honcho of the footballs, after not speaking to him for six months, spoke to him six times in three days after it was announced that there was an investigation going on. >> rose: lengthy conversations? >> total of 55 minutes, six times.

i guess that's not all that lengthy. but, you know curious. but charlie, there are five or six of those points that, taken altogether, really make brady look like he has a lot to hide or was hiding a lot but then there are other things in the report that i'm just uneasy about. one of them is that they talk about how tom brady basically was signing a lot of stuff for these guys -- signing jerseys and helmets, you know, signing autographs. it's long been -- >> -- >> rose: as pay. as pay. tom brady you could go into the patriots' offices and see a bunch of stuff oh, brady has to sign all this stuff today. if somebody wanted something done for a charity brady would do it, he's very generous in that way. i'm not saying he didn't do the quid-pro-quo with those guys,

i'm just saying there is no proof he did. >> rose: i sat in the second row and he was in the front row and we walked out together, he was right in front of me i saidçó was ofñi everybody who wanted to take a picture with him. it was ratherñiñi remarkable. >> charlie, i'll tell you i've got an interesting relationship with him. five days after the super bowl this year i sent word and said i want>n# to÷d write a column about your last two drives in the super bowl. i said, this is probably going to be the greatest quarter in your greer r career. the number one defense in the nvcialtion you drive the ball twice with the super bowl on the line. you have to]9zñ score touchdowns on these two drives. so we were on the phone probablyñr for 75 minutes five days after the game, and i'm the one who got off the phone not him. so, i mean i've always found him to be accommodating and

fairly gracious. >> rose: so sounds to me like you want to give him a pass on this because -- >> i don't want to give him a pass. >>çó rose: -- you thiáaw it's circumstantial evidence and he's a bigmy star in the n.f.l. and you could argue listen, this is notñixd sufficient toafd evidence to hammer him. >> i think there is a lot of circumstantial evidence and what the 1/2 will --ñr what the n.f.l. will sayxd is a preponderance of the evidence and i think tom has questions tognp answer. >> rose: do you have any idea how they will respond, the patriots or tom? >> bob kraft, the owner of theñi patrio@ between defiant andwm+ despondent. defiant he's been told by bill

belichick and tom brady absolutely unequivocally we have no idea what's going on, we didn't do this and brady basically to his face said nothing happened i didn't do this. >> rose: and kraft saying i didn't know about it. >> that's not kraft's bailey wick. i wouldn't think never say never but that's not his bailey wick. craft, everything he's done about that franchise is trying to do something to keep the team in new england and secondly to give new england a team they can be proud of and that's why this hurts him quite a bit. >> rose: have you talked to him? >> i have had a conversation with him but nothing on the record, nothing reportable. i'm hoping in the coming days to be able to speak to him. >> rose: is there any idea of

what brady is going to do? is he going to have a press conference, do a conversation with a print or television person? >> i don't know what he's going to do. i think it's incumbent on him to do something. >> rose: you understand my next question -- does he have to do something? >> i think he thews do something because i think america is looking at him with a jaundiced eye that tommy perfect is not perfect in the eyes of america. >> rose: other than this one that you know. secondly, how has he handled the questions about it after the fact? >> i thought it was very curious, charlie. i don't know if you remember this. he's done one press conference in which he talked about this at length. peter alexander, a correspondent for nbc news that day, when he talked about this, the only time he's talked about it atxd length, that day peter alexander said, tom america wants to know, are you a cheater? and brady looked at him a little

quizzically and he said -- and i'm paraphrasing -- he said, i don't think so. and he went on to talk about how he believes in fair play and everything. but i thought it was a curious answer. if i were him, i would have come out and said, you darn right i'm not a cheater, or i'm no cheater. >> rose: i saw one of the guys who were going to doñi the super bowl watch an interview and say it bothers me because he felt like he had forthcoming. he said if i was in the same circumstance, i would be out there screaming on the top of the building that i didn't know about this and i didn't do it. >> charlie, i totally agree with you, that's the way i would do it, too. i would say i'm outraged my character is being called into question. i didn't do anything wrong. but i will say this about brady in my conversations with him over the years, there is only

one time where he's ever really flared. there's one time where i've ever really seen anger. everything else, doesn't matter what the topic is, he's almost always measured, almost always and i don't know why that is, but i just take it well, there's tom brady. >> rose: yeah. here's what the report says. our conclusion that it is more probable than not thatñr mcnally let air from the game balls after tested by officials. we believe it isxd unlikely an assistant would deflate game balling without brady's knowledge and approval. is it unlikely someone would do that without tom's approval or knowledge? >> absolutely. >> rose: yeah. i would agree with that. i mean, he had troy aikman come out in dallas in the last day or two and basically say --

>> rose: a football player, a quarterback and his footballs -- >> a quarterback he said there is absolutely no way tom brady wouldn't know that. a quarterback is totally involved in everything about the preparation of the footballs an$k players say they simply don't believe tom brady didn't know. >> rose: but you don't know. you're saying -- >> i don't know -- you know what i'm uneasy about charlie, really? what you're going to do now is brand this guy as something not only for the rest of his career -- he's 38 years old -- but for the rest of his life, and i'm uncomfortable with all of the wording "more probable than not" is about as definitive as ted wells gets, more probable than not. do i want to, you know, put this mantel on tom brady's legacy

shoulders for the rest of his life based on "more probable than not"? i'm uneasy about that. >> rose: so how do we settle this? >> i don't know the answer to that. >> rose: because they operate on the basis of the wells' report, doesn't the n.f.l. have to do something? >> yeah, i think they do. >> rose: their guy that they hired to do this says -- not. here's what this is, this is, in essence, a civil trial. o.j. simpson doesn't get found guilty in a criminal trial, he gets found guilty in a civil trial and has to pay jill yuns gillions of dollars to the goldman family. in a criminal trial, tom brady would walk. in a civil trial which is put on him by ted wells the n.f.l. ok had to have what it feels

is a preponderance of evidence and if they believe there is a preponderance of evidence they will, i think, come down hard on tom brady. >> rose: i hear you saying, in fact, he has so much to lose, tom does, that if they are wrong, it's a terrible terrible, life-long injustice to him. >> yep. >> rose: and that's a risk they have to really, really think about. >> that's a risk they have to weigh in. i'm just saying if i were roger goodell and troy vinson in the league office who are going to decide this along with jeff patch legal counsel i would push to spent two or three hours with tom brady because i would want him to look me in the face and i would want to hear from him about this. and i'm not so unsure that that's not going to happen. but before i did that to a cornerstone of the game, before i said you'reñr suspended, you're fined or something i would want him to have him look me in the

eye and tell me what he feels is justice and what he feels is correct. >> rose: suppose at some point he does that, and let's assume that, for whatever reason, there is a conclusion that it was done and tom knew. what's the appropriate punishment? >> i think he -- if there was more evidence than what i've seen to this point that he did do it and i could believe conclusively that he did it, i would say that he should definitely be suspended for some length of time -- two games four games whatever it is -- and even though it will put the n.f.l. in a huge hole their first game in the 96th n.f.l. season, september 10th is pittsburgh at new england,i4!&c @&c atmosphere. football is back everybody is happy. the story that night will be where is tom brady? he's not in the lineup because the n.f.l. has branded him a

cheater. so i know that's not what the n.f.l. wants but that's not going to prevent them from making a decision. >> rose: you know, it reminds me of my friend brian williams, whenever you see a tabloid story about him, it's lyin' brian and this will be cheating tom. >> as somebody who watches nbc nightly news and i've watched brian williams six or eight years most nights, i thought he was absolutely tremendous and i really feel for him and i think this is one of those classic cases in to see him get another shot. again, i understand the argument against that, but you're right it's the exact same thing about tom brady. the rest of his life, people will look at him and say hey there's the guy the n.f.l. brought the hammer do youñiq cheating. >> rose: great to see you. peter king.

back in a moment. stay with us. >> rose: david mccullough is here. he's been called a master of the art of narrative history. he twice won the pulitzer prize and is recipient of the presidential medal of freedom. he has written 11 books including 1776 and john adams. his latest piece of history is about the wright brothers that tellsñr theá3d story of two bicycle mechanicsc taught the world to fly. pleased to have back at the table david mccullough. >> thank you, sir. >> rose: this is a book about a trilogy of high achievement. >> the first was about the building of the brooklyn bridge, the the second is the building of the panama canal, the path between the seas and now this. and all three of those extraordinary accomplishments took place in a handful of years in the late 19th century into thei first ten years of the 20th century and eacht( in its own way was a major breakthrough

without any historic precedent, but this one more obviously changed the world in no time because man had never flown a motor-powered machine into the air before and when that happened, it was clear to a few but not to all that this was one of the decisive turning points in but so surprising, or maybe very surprising to me in writing the book, but what's so surprising is you sort of imagine okay, they flew the first time at kitty hawk in 1903 and everybody realizes this is terrific, will change the world. but it wasn'tñi until 1908 that the world was ready to realize yes, man can fly. because we had set our minds that that was impossible. this so often happens in many

aspects of history and life, but seldom so dramatically. >> rose: what is it about the people that do this? they don't quit. >> that's right. they do not give up. and i really think it also had something to do with where they came from. ohio. midwestern america. this is not to say that there are lots of other people from elsewhere that don't give up. harry truman never gave up. midwestern american from a very humble origins as these people were, and they have purpose charlie. they have a purpose in mind, and probably sounds like a bad punt, high purpose that they were determined to achieve no matterpwhat. and every time either of them went up in one of their

experimental plains and flights, he was risking his life. so it took tremendous courage and character and, surprisingly for me, was to see to what extent their use of the english language was of a major importance in their success. they are raised by a minister father who insisted they learn to use language both on paper and on their feet. you read their letters and you think that neither one ever finished high school and it's humbling their use of the language, their humor, their foresight, everything. they grew up in a house that had no running water no indoor plumbing, no electricity, no telephone, but it had books and the father insisted that they read, and not only read what he

felt was of importance in fiction and history but natural history and philosophy and the classics and everything, including the work of the famous gnostic i i engersol, even though he was a protestant preacher. >> rose: wilbur was dominant. and the genius. orville was bright and a genius but wilbur was really the genius. he was the leader. wouldn't have happened without both of them two. heads were better than one as it turned out. the old idea that very little of consequence is ever accomplished alone, they are a good example of that. >> rose: when did they have the idea? >> they had the idea that they could learn to glide. >> rose: to use wind.

to use the wind to ride the wind, and they studied birds soaring birds on the beaches of north carolina. >> rose: i love that. just the idea of seeing them out there trying to flap their arms and -- >> and the local people all thought they were wacko nut cakes from the midwest. >> rose: they were studying -- yes, they were studying the birds. orville said learning to fly by studying birds is like learning magic from a magician. they figured it out. nobody ever had. and then they had to fly. there were theorists who had very exciting and often very genius ideas but they wouldn't fly. wilbur once said that there are two ways to train a wild horse one is to sit on the fence and study the horse and then go to your comfortable chair in your living room and write your theory about how to train a

horse. the other way is to get on the horse and ride. they were, as you know, bicycle mechanics, and exactly as you said, the only way you can learn to ride a bicycle is toñi ride a bicycle. so they not only had the skill and the ingenuity and the genius to create a glider that would do more than any glider ever had but they also had the courage to do it and were not defeated by failure. they learned from their mistakes. that's a marvelous lesson for all of us to learn. >> rose: i guess it was orville who told a friend, he said it isn't true to say we hadñi the greatest thing in our favor was growing up in a family where there was always much encouragement. >> intellectual curiosity. exactly right. i think how we're brought up is more important than we realize. we put a lot of emphasis on

education -- >> rose: for better or worse. yes. how you're raised. the manners you were taught. what were you taught about loyalty? what were you taught about telling the truth? what were you taught about being kind to people? all of that begins at home. and the dinner table and the conversations about behavior and aspirations. their father was an exceptional teacher, and their sister -- >> rose: katherine. -- whose importance in this story i'm very happy to say i've spend a lot of trouble and time and effort bringing her front and center stage because she deserves it. she was bright, she was bossy she was funny she was opinionated, she had a temper, but she was always there when they needed her. and she was bright as can be.

she's the only one of the group who went to college. >> rose: does she remind you of emily roblin? >> yes, sir. (laughter) and abigail adams. very strongly. and i think that the story would not have come out the way it did had it not been for her. i think one of the joyceñr -- joys of the work that i do is giving credit where credit is long overdue. do we need lessons in appreciation? so many of these people that we hear about them in school history courses for about ten minutes and then we move on, oh, the wright brothers, they were those clever bicycle mechanics and invented the airplane. that's hardly a fraction of the story. the idea that they had tremendous interest in art and

architecture and photography. there was no -- they were fully alive intellectually, mentally but they also had this driving sense of purpose that i feel is essential to the high achievement of that -- on that scale, on that level. >> rose: what was that? purpose. they weren't trying to make a lot of money. they weren't trying to achieve fame. they didn't like the limelight. they avoided it. >> rose: were they trying to change the world? >> no. >> rose: they were just trying to show -- >> they were sure that man could do this and they thought they had the answer, and they did. and they had no money. the entire expenses all the expenses for the first plane to

fly at kitty hawk in 1903 were less than $1,000. samuel langley and his group at the smithsonian spent $70,000 trying to build an airplane that would fly and it just flew into the potomac river several times. >> rose: what didn't they understand? >> well, for one thing,xdñr langley didn't understand that you have to get on the horse and ride it. >> rose: yes, yes. what was the role of photography ph >> well, they loved photography. they were interested in it for technical reasons. they were advancing very rapidly so if you look at the photograph on the cover of the book or the inside front page, that's as sharp as anything we can take today. >> rose: unbelievable. it's unbelievable. that's from the original glass plate. photography had been revolutionized and they were fascinated by it but they also wanted to record everything that they did in order to protectñr4jdd violate their patents.

>> rose: was this a race? no. >> rose: it wasn't? i don't think they thought of it as a race. >> rose: certainly in a medical discovery there's a race. mapping the human genome, there's a race toñr see who would be first. >> there were other people trying to do what they did at the very same time, namely and most conspicuously samuel langley. >> rose: did anybody come close or are there competing claims as to who did it first? >> that were then and still are but there is nothing to them. >> rose: they did it. yes. >> rose: a support ofxd the wright brothers compared the achievement to that of christopher columbus. >> yes. >> rose: do you? yes, absolutely. >> rose: columbus discovered the new world and they discovered how to go to further worlds. >> think of this -- you and i everybody today goes everywhere at 35,000 feet. >> rose: right. last year at o'hare field in

chicago, 70 million people flew in and out that one airport. >> rose: 70 million people. yes. and 1903 wasn't all that long ago. i could have known orville wright. he didn't die until 1948. i would have been 15 years old and he could have been that nice old fellow around the corner that was fun to talk to. >> rose: 1958? '48. >> rose: '48. and it's a fraction of time, as history goes, that this all happened. you couldn't imagine a more dramatic change and, of course, it hugely changed the powers of warfare, and he lived to see jet propulsion, he lived to see rockets, it all happened very fast once they got the key. >> rose: that's amazing. you have said that history fosters optimism in comparison to the hue brings hubris of the present.

>> yes, i feel that way. >> rose: tell me what you mean. >> first of all, it shows there was no simpler time ever. anybody who thinks that doesn't understand that times past were very difficult, very heartbreaking, destructive suffering in the extreme terrific mistakes made that caused anguish of thousands of millions of people. but we came out of those dark times, we human beings. we do figure out what went wrong and how to fix it and we do make extraordinary improvements in the quality of life. look what's happening just in medicine here in my lifetime. unbelievable. and -- >> rose: we're on the precipice of something in medical science that's extraordinary and we've achieved so much. >> look at what we achieved in

our universities. yes, they are expensive and problems with the higher education, but we have created the greatest universities in the world, the greatest universities ever in the world, all here, all in a matter of a few hundred years. why are all these very bright young people from all over the world trying to come here to go to college, to universities? because this is the greatest in the world. >> rose: 18 of the top 20. and to me that's very promising. that's very exciting. and i think that if we have leadership that calls upon us to serve, then there is really no end to what we can do. you realize that -- >> rose: that's your optimism. that's my optimism. it's been 50 years since we've had a president of the united states who called upon us to ask us to do something for our country. >> rose: you mean jack kennedy. >> i mean jack kennedy. and i feel these young people today, if they were called upon

to serve their country they would. >> rose: it's become a term of art, what this president or leader needs, this country needs a moon project. >> absolutely. >> rose: a bold vision we can get here if we apply ourselves and i'm going to put my own credibility on the line to say we're going to do this. >> well, you could use this story of the wright brothers. they set themselves on the course to achieve the unachievable, supposedly. president kennedy said we're going to go to the moon. >> rose: right and we did. and they flew. >> and they flew. >> rose: you call what you do a calling. >> yes, i do. >> rose: how is it a calling for you? is it simply -- you tell me. >> i want to bring to life the

best that can be found in the story of why we are the way we are and how we got to where we are. that doesn't mean it's all good news, all wonderful admirable people, not by any means. i think that what really happened is not only as interesting as stories that are concocted, but probably more interesting. i've always thought of myself as a writer -- >> rose: not an historian. i'm writing about what happened. i'm not making anything up. i'm not going to change facts and figures. >> rose: what's the gift? you have the calling but what is the gift? >> telling a story. there's no trick to writing history. tell stories. great stories. >> rose: and stories about real things and real people. >> yes.

i think one of the important points is we shouldn't just think of history as politics in the military, which is, you know, a huge part of it. but it isn't everything. that's why i've done what i've done with this book and others i've written. they're not about politics and the military. politics and the military enter into it but they're not about that. i think the future historians looking back on our time will be talking about other things in politics and military that we've achieved in our time or mistakes that we've made other than politics and the military. >> rose: you've said before all of your books are about one of the first books that you read, the little engine that could. >> yes (laughter) i think i can, i i think i can, i thinkic. that's how we're brought up. that's the kind of book we were raised on. >> rose: wilbur wright says no

bird soars in a calm. so fundamental and true. >> adversity helps. the old irish saying may the wind always be at your back. they take that in the reverse. you need the wind to give you the lift. >> rose: this is an honorary degree you got and you were awarded this citation -- as an historian, he paints with words giving us pictures of the american people that live, breathe and, above all confront the fundamental issues of courage, achievement and moral character. most to have the people we write about have moral character? >> yes, the main characters. >> rose: the main characters. yes, absolutely. john adams abigail adams, harry truman -- >> rose: why have you never written about lincoln? >> too big. too big a subject. >> rose: really? yeah, huge. and it's been done. it's been done. >> rose: as soon as i hear you

say that, i resist that idea. >> well -- >> rose: i like to resist the idea because, you know, too often people will say it's been done, and then someone of the skills of david mccullough do it, and they say wow. >> well, thank you but i really admire the people who have written about lincoln and superbly. i like to have the fun of discovery. >> rose: you don't think there is much new to discover? >> no, i don't. with this book for example coming upon the private letters between wilbur and their sister and orville -- >> rose: how did you come upon them? >> well, they're in the library of congress. there have been fine books written about the wright brothers, they deal primarily with the aviation side of it. i was interested in that, of course, but equally or more in the human side of it, and that's to be found in the private

correspondence which is spectacular because they pour out their really inner most feelings, and there are over 1,000 letters. it's just between the father, the sister and the two brothers. none of them was capable of writing a dull letter. >> rose: have we lost that, though? >> oh, yes. we don't write letters. we don't keep diaries. >> rose: we email. nobody would probably dare keep a diary. >> rose: they might be subpoenaed. >> yeah. i don't know what future historians of biography will have to work with. >> rose: john adams wrote voluminously. >> and so did abigail. there are over 1,000 letters just between them. >> rose: have you been to the public theater in morning to see the play, the musical hamilton? >> not yet. >> rose: get it on your agenda. >> i certainly will. >> rose: great to see you. charlie, it's always a treat to be your guest. thank you.

>> rose: i ask this not knowing. how is your wife? >> she is perfect. she's my editor-in-chief. she's my guiding star. she's the mission control of our family, chair of the ethics committee. >> rose: tell her i said -- send her my best. >> she's marvelous. thank you. married 60 years this year. >> rose: david mccullough book called "the wright brothers." back in a moment. stay with us. >> charlie, i don't think that's such a hot idea. you do? okay. listen, you're the boss. hey, charlie -- it's almost 8:00. i've got a very important meeting to go to. so go ahead and do it. i'll talk to you about it tomorrow. thanks. debbie? >> yes boss? until i tell you, i don't

want to be disturbed. ♪ >> his aspirations are embodied in an acronym, tbe the best ever. is it hubris or is he making history? each remaining fight brings floyd mayweather and the millions who follow him closer to the answer. ♪♪ coming off the most lucrative night boxing ever known, he seems more unbeatable than ever. >> floyd mayweather has not lost a step! wow! mayweather remains money in las vegas! ♪♪

>> hey, floyd! warren buffet is here! >> warren who? hey! (crashing sounds) >> mayweather! you're going to going down! you got an ugly face. [bleep] [bleep] [bleep] [bleep] [bleep]! (shouting) (bleep), (bleep), (bleep), (bleep), (bleep) (bleep)! argh! (bleep). >> you're a dead man, buffet!

♪♪ >> this is a cbs news special report. i'm charlie rose in new york. we're interrupting your regular programming with startling news from las vegas nevada, in a startling development this afternoon warren buffet has challenged current boxing champion floyd mayweather for the welterweight championship of the world and mayweather has accepted his challenge. buffet fighting under the moniker the berkshire bomber is scheduled to face undefeated champion floyd money mayweather in las vegas ten days from now. >> the mayweather people asked me first but i was much too busy. >> if warren loses i get his office. >> no, i have been trying to set up with mr. buffet for three weeks and then they call to say you can train him.

really? train him? (theme from rocky playing) >> go! faster! faster! >> live from the mgm grand in las vegas, the biggest money

fight in boxing history brought to you by dairy queen heinz geico, nebraska furniture -- >> bnsf railway -- (speaking faster and faster) (crowd roaring) (bell dinging) >> ladies and gentlemen, good evening and welcome to the mgm grand in las vegas nevada! the time has come for the bout you've all been waiting for! first, needing no introduction the world over, coming to las vegas by the way of grand rapids, michigan! introducing the undefeated the one and only floyd "money"

mayweather! (cheers and applause) >> and across the ring in the blue corner fighting out of ohm omaha, nebraska. weighing in 185 pounds, the berkshire bomber, warren buffet! (cheers and applause) >> the biggest stars the coolest of the cool have come out in full force for this most anticipated prize fight of omaha, nebraska, the oracle of omaha, the most successful investor in the 20th century packed the house at mgm grand standing for mayweather gets money. this walk to the ring has been paved with gold on numerous occasions and buffer et is fueling up with a coke and a smile as he gets ready to try to erase the mythical pound for pound king and maybe a box of chocolates for buffet, he knows he's going to get a great return

on his investment. (ringing bell) >> and here we go with the main event of the evening! 12 rounds of boxing for the super welterweight championship of the world! and now, ladies and gentlemen in attendance and boxing fans joining us around the world -- live from the mgm grand in las vegas, it's show time! (cheers and applause) >> give me the sports book. yeah, john it's steve. i hear you got a lot of action that mayweather won't survive the fight. i love that, put me down for 100 bucks. >> and now to give instructions. referee in charge hall of famer fair but firm, joel. >> obey my commands at all time.

remember, i'm fair but i'm firm. any questions? >> no. do you have any questions? no. are you going to wear the glasses? >> you damn right i will. this fight ain't gonna last long. >> all right. it's usually mayweather who's the master of mind games but warren buffet seems to be taking you wouldn't hit a guy with glasses strategy. the fight the entire world has been anticipating, the world has come to a halt for buffet vs. mayweather. buffet bopping and weaving. mayweather looking to collect all the data he can, of course with a victory tonight buffet skyrockets, he lights up! >> guys! hey! did you pay the cable bill this month? (theme from rocky)

♪ >> rose: for more about this program and earlier episodes, visit us online at pbs.org and charlierose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

>> rose: on the next charlie rose, a conversation with the u.s. secretary of energy ernest moniz. >> when i was introduced into the negotiations it was for

technical matters be it enrichment, reactors, et cetera. so certainly for that part of the agreement i am certainly working intensely with members of congress. but don't forget there are many other dimensions to this agreement. the sanctions relief, the military dimensions. >> rose: okay. where secretary kerry obviously is the principal spokesman for that. secondly, there are broader issues being introduced into the discussion about the nature of the negotiation, not about the results of the negotiation, but the nature of the negotiation and for those clearly secretary kerry and the president are quite in the lead. >> rose: the iranians have said at this table three presidents of iran, they have said we don't want nuclear weapons. they say that all the time.

how do you assess that? >> well, first of all, let me say, we hope it's true and this is what this agreement is, as i said earlier is built for the long term, because we have specific restrictions that go up to 25 years and some basically are in effect forever. so the whole idea is, over time, that we all can gain confidence in that statement. the fact is today it's clear. there is not confidence in that statement, at least having applied certainly in the past. because they've nod hat not had the sanctions. >> he said the sanctions did not bring them to the table. was sanctions that brought them to the table? >> well, you know, i can't answer that question. personally, i believe the sanctions certainly were part of it for sure, but, you know, in in

the end our job is not to do anything other than have an agreement based upon verification.

this is "nightly business re with tyler mathisen and sue herera. nailing the number. why tomorrow's big employment report is proving to be the hardest to predict. >> last resort. johnson and johnson enters the first of its kind partnership to see how the sickest patients receive experimental relationships the documents that changes everything for the man who blew the whistle for everything. the man who blew the whistle on the "nightly business report" for tonight. tonight i spent the nike talking to the biggest executive for the biggest