>> rose: welcome to the program. we begin this evening with politics, the announcement of the presidential candidacies of hill re clinton over the weekend an jeb bush today. >> i don't think they're as big a problem as the bush name, because in fact, a lot of his appeal is that he can win a general election against hillary clinton and there are a lot of republicans who say well maybe, but like is it really smart for us to run a bush against clinton. is it really smart for us to forfeit the argument about being the party of the future when we could make that contrast she's from the past, we're from the future. if you run jeb bush you can't ma that argument. >> rose: we conclude this evening with an extended conversation with the chairman & ceo of general electric jeff immelt. >> i think it's our belief that every industrial company in the coming age is also going to have to be a software and analytics company. that people that deny

digitization will corne every part of the economy will be left behind. so we are investing massively in that but really around industrial asset not the consumer internet. >> rose: so in fact you are a software company. >> we have thousands of software engineers we have about 5 billion dollars of revenue around controls and software and enterprise software and we would like to see that be an order of magnitude bigger as time goes on. >> rose: the presidential campaign and the perspective of the c.e.o. of general electric when we continue. >> funding for charlie rose is oyed by american express. >> additional funding provided b >> rose: additional funding provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide.

captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> hill re clinton announced over the weekend and today jeb bush announced his run for the presidency. >> you know, i always feel welcome at miami-dade college. for all of us it is just the place to be in the campaign that begins today. >> it is an attempt to follow his father and his brother into the highest office in the land. we will take command ofur future once again in this country, he toll an audience at miami-dade university. bush instantly becomes one of the strongest candidates in a crowded gop field. joining me for a look at this candidacy are the host ofings with request all due respect "on bloomberg television, john heileman with me in the studio and on loxz in miami, mark halperin. i'm pleased to have both of them here once again. let me go first to mark in miami. how do you assess what happened today in terms of a campaign that has been

floundering a little bit in some people's eyes? >>. >> best speech he's given since he started this quest for the white house late last year. a comfortable fired up optimistic and determined. and i think for a lot of his supporters who have been nervous. for a lot who said they weren't interested in voting for jeb bush i thought this was his best performance, maybe even by far. i'm not sure if he will keep it up am but he did show people that he understood the task a heads of him is to the going to be easy. will have to fight for it and today he began a pretty strong restore-- rhetorical attempt to fight for the job he says he wants. >> rose: john. >> he has had problems delivering speeches from prepared text from teleprompters. it has been his weakest thing. good taking questions from the press, not so good in prepared settings of this kind. i think mark is right. i thought he was quite good today. he started slow but he really, really seemed to suck up the energy of the crowd. the crowd was really into it and by the end he was kind of surfing the crowd. he departed from the

prepared text for a wile and was kind of riffing. i thought but he closed very, very, very strong. and the other thing. >> what did he do to close. >> he ended by saying there is good people running for presidt. he said not one of us deserves the job by right of resume priority seniority or-- he said it is wide open exactly as a contest for president should be and want on to say he was going to fight for it. again, he was just energized at the end much and the other thing that is true that goes hand-in-hand with that is that he said he would run, if he could run joyo. he has not been a joyful candidate these last few months. he seemed beleaguered by some of the problems his campaign had. today he seemed joyful again. whether he can keep it up we don't know but today it seemed like he had it. >> rose: what will he run on? is it experience or is it a vision of the future sm. >> well, it's got to be both and also as a reformer. he talked today about changing washington there are a lot of ironies in this candidacy, one, of course, he wouldn't be in this position if his name weren't

bush yet the name bush and the association with his family is the thing most holding him back. another irony is he says he can change washington better than anyone else even though he's the son and brother of people who have been president in washington. he's got a cim on that as virtue in his record of this state as governor a long time ago. i think his two challenges are right now his campaign scott walker governor of washington, marc rubio senator from florida as the two competitors. bush has to somehow say he's got a better claim on leading into the future than rubio who is younger and newer. he has to make the claim that he is better on taking on the current polit cas fights than walker who is someone currently in office and has taken on a the lo of political fights even though bush has been out of the office for a while. i think to be the nominee he has to win both those fights and that's difficult. >> rose: how does he stand today mark, in iowa? >> in iowa he's in the middle of the pack. e reality of this race as bush himself said john quoted him it's so wide open, there is no front-runner. we don't understand the

fisks of the republican race without a clear front-runner nationally. i think in iowa he's not at the head of the class. scott walker is, but he's in the mix. and i think he's got a chance i think in iowa an underrated chance. because right now the establishment vote there whh is anywhere from a third to 40% of the vote there in the caucuses is up for grabs as scott walker runs less as an establishment can dt and more as a movement conservative candidate. >> rose: and what about new hampshire, john? >> i agree mark just accurately portrayed the situation in a watch. he has got some issues problems out there with the nonestablishment part of the party. >> rose: but seymour conservative than we think he is? is that what he will indicate by his record in florida. >> he had a very conservative record in florida. to doubted about it. you see the club for growth today came out and said he was a conservative governor in florida. by any standard he was conservative. he's got two issues on which he is out of step now with the republican base. and though issues are education reform ssh common core and immigration, those are real problems for him . i don't think they are as

big a problem as the bush name because in fact a lot of his appeal is that he can win a general election against hillary clinton and a lot of republicans say maybe but like is it really smart for us to run a bush against a clinton? is it really smart for us to forfeit the argument about being the party of the future when we could make that contrast, she's from the past, we're from the future. if you run jeb bush you can't make that argument. he forfeits that argument against her and the dynastic argument goes out the window. a lot of people who like jeb bush, and don't even mind george w. bush they have questions about whether it's smart to put a bush on the ticket when there are other available options. the surprising thing it's not surprising he is not leading in iowa, it's surprising he is not doing better in new hampshire. he's in the middle in new hampshire. cowin new hampshire, he should be a strong new hampshire candidate. but when they started this thing in january december, and said he started his exploratory, there was a lot of feeling that he would not clear the field but that he would raise a ton of money and that by this point he

would be the dominant clear front-runner. he is not that today. he is a top tier condition data but with marco rubio with scott walker to some extent with ben carson with rand paul, they are all bunched up. and that was not where jeb bush tught he would be. not to say-- . >> rose: do you want to be the front-runner? >> he wanted to be the front-runner, no doubt about it he would rather be the front-runner than be stuck in a pack of five right. >> rose: but there is also perception to go with being the front-runner. you can easily stumble and therefore the fall becomes did-- enlarged. >> in the republican party as far back as you and i and mark can remember, the ont-runner at this stage has always been the nominee. so that is where you would normally want to be in a republican race. you would want to be the front-runner am but you know,. >> rose: mark, let's switch to hillary clinton. what is your assessment of her kickoff? >> it is what staged brilliantly and pictures matter a lot in politics, often more than the words. i think it was striking how

she is to you back to being for big government. there was very little in that speech that would you say was the words of a new democrat as her husband was. when he moved the party to the center. partly that reflects her heart. partly that reflects a concern in the world of hill rae clinton including the part of her husband that the left could really create problems for her. the clintons always worry about the next election they try not to look past it. and right now with bernie sanders and martin o'malley she has to worry about her left flavjt i was struck by the million of big new government programs that she was proposing without putting a price tag on them and without talking about deficit reduction, the kind of issues her husband talked about. but this is a case of hill re clinton performing well to the super well. i don't know that anybody saw that speech and thought new about her but it did allow her to move forward with the notion of keeping the democratic coalition together. and that's a big part of her bet on how to win the white house.

>> her campaign has now takes it for granted that there are not that many people out there who can be made to think a you anew about hillary clinton. a lot of the perceptions are baked in. so herp husband's campaigns were not just as mark said a new democrat, more of a centrist but they were about persuadables. about the big undecided vote. how do you get the guys in the middle. our politics have changed and perceptions have been baked in about hill rae clinton, her teaming loost this election about a mobilization election. they look at it the way the obama team looked in 20126789 now about trying to persuade undecided voters but how do we find people inclined to vote democrat and get those people out. so she not only i think is worried about her left flank and wanting to make sure that elizabeth warren doesn't pop up or beenie sanders didn't take off but also thinks that the way to win the general election is on the obama model. that coalition, minority voters, young voters the college educated women that coalition that obama built

she wants to take that codecision-- coalition, expand it and do what he did and win that way. >> rose: there'slso this i'm asking the question, the sense in the country that something is not quite fair. that income inequality has resonance, that the way the middle class used to expect the benefits of life has in the happened to them. >> you could not be a democratic candidate for president and have any chance of winning the nomination let alone the presidency in 2016 2015 whatever year it is we are in right now without identifying th issue economic inequality lack of social mobility all of that cluster of issues. you have to put that at the centre of your economic message. >> republicans are due. >> some republicans are some are and obviously they have different solutions to the problem. she can't not talk about that. and her party is further to the left than it was even four years ago. the base of her party. the nominating electorate is further to the left and it's not where her-- it's not her husband's $cratic party t is just not. if she were to try to pretend its with i think it wod be disastrous but there is a balance and the

question is can she also try to run as a reformer. can she try to portray herself not as a new democrat or centrist but can she find a way to still get that just be a standard brand liberal can she find certain places where she can find a wedge to get into the middle a little bit more than she has so far. >> so from with all due respect, and from the campaign trail my thanks to john heileman and mark halperin, thank you. >> thanks, charlie. >> rose: jeff immelt is here the chairman & ceo of general lick trick for over a century ge has been at the forefront of delivering energy, health care aviation, water transportation and more including finance. in april the company announced that it would be exiting ge capital the finance arm contributing significantly to ge's troubles during the financial crisis. the company new aims to achieve 90% of its earnings from its industrial roots. one innovation pro telling-- propelling that is

the industrial internet it speh grates complex machinery with network sensors and software so i'm pleased to have jeff immelt back at this table. it's been several years and so we look forward to t conversation. thank you. >> charlie, good to see you again. >> rose: this is a different company. >> uh-huh. >> rose: tell me how. what kind of company. >> i think over the last decade it's been our sense that you can only be as broad as you are deep. and it maybe frequently focused is a good thing in company so even while ge is still really big, i would say we're really a high-tech industrial company ted and that's been a good transition and we feel great about how the company's positioned. so biggest in the world and very competitive in the world we have today. we love where the company is. >> you have said that most of your new investments at the intersect between physics and the new analytical digital world. >> the industrial internet so basically all of our products today are surrounded by sensors. they produce a tremendous amount of data that can help

you track what's the fuel consumption in a locomotive. what is the exhaust of a jet engine and things like that. we can turn that into valuae things for customers. >> at nal sis of data. >> but i would say beyond that i think it's our belief that every industrial company in the coming age is also going have to be a software analytics company. that people that deny that digitization is going to impact every corner of the economy are going to get left behind so we're investing massively in that. but reallyround industrial asset, not around things like the consumer internet. >> so in fact you you are a software company. >> we have thousands of software nears. we is -- engineers we have about $5 billion of revenue around controls and software and enterprise soft ware. and we would like to see that be in order of magnitude bigger as time goes o and you can hire the talent and it's important to change the headset of the company. >> rose: but you will develop the software yourself. >> we will. we will have plenty of partners at the same time

but we are going to play big at this intersection between physics and analystists-- analytics, we want be the only one that plays but we will play big. >> you have a location in silicon valley. >> we have a location in california. we have other locations around the world. we have 10 or 15,000 software engineers inside the company. we are planning to win. >> tell me what thinking lead you to make these decisions that put you at this place. >> i think charlie if are you in business what you really have to stay focused on are the industries are you in, what the customers are canning yoto do. we never got up one morning and said we have to be a software company. what we understood is if you want to be a great aviation company, if you want to be a great health-care company, if you want to be a great energy company you also better be a good analytics and software company. so it's an outgrowth of i would say a hundred years of competitiveness and focus on doing what customers wanted us to do and not fear that we could change. in other words i grew up in a company where they basically said look, are you a metal head.

you've been-- you can't do what they do. that say loser today. that really is sending you backyards. and we very much believe that we have to make this transition not just for our products but also forow we run the company. >> they do not make these transitions won't be in business. >> people that don't make these transitions i think aren't going to be competitive in the next five ten or 15 years. >> 20% of the s&p 500 market cap today are consumer internet companies that didn't exist 10 or 15 years ago. we have to grab a piece of this and the industrial internet going forward. >> what do you think about companies like air b & b or uber. >> exciting. really, you know again i always look at the combination, there is one piece of it that is technology, right. and there's one piece of that is busins model, right. and i think you have to let your mind wander about both. actually the technology is easy. but i think what companies like uber teach you is fear and-- be paranoid because if you are's the biggest you're also the biggest target. so we've always had this sense of paranoia.

>> rose: and there is always disruptive technology. >> but younow quite honestly. we can hire people that want to come to work for ge that are great data scientists and things like that. >> do you have to re-educate people about what ge is. >> sure. but i think it starts with the people. you go out people love the mission, you know people like aviation. they like health care. they love our industries. and we have a hundred years of physics it turns out making a jet engine is really a hard thing to do. that is why only two other people in the world do it. but if you can marry that with analytics that is a powerful combination and we aim to lead. >> you have said the industrial internet is the holy grail of your business. >> transform difficult will change the face. company for a long period of time. will make us more productive and faster. and i think the cultural change, the digitization of the company i think will also make us more competitive in the 21st century. >> rose: are you recruiting differently. >> sure, both inside the company in functions like it and manufacturing. we're hiring salespeople that grew up at or october

el and sysco and places like that an we're recruiting software engineers and analytical mathmaticians from the valley and ed elsewhere, india and places like that. >> rose: every business is technology-based now. >> uh-huh, everything inside the company is really hightech global footprint. >> rose: and who is going to be, not just in terms of companies, but what about people, who will be left behind? >> well look, i think anybody that basically says it's too hard for me to learn software. it's too hard for me to digitize my plants. it's-- i don't want to change my business model so i work with our customers to guarantee them better outcomes. maybe it won't be from ge but it's going to be from the uber-- industry, is going to come in and transform the way the business works. >> it's charlie it is happening. >> but do you fear that happening in tms of competition? your own competition? that somehow -- >> i don't so much about my direct competition. you know again we have

great competitors. i worry pore about other disruptive technologies. but remember this about the industrial internet is you have to know the product. you have to know the physics of the product. if we can improve the fuel consumption of every ge jet engine by 1% 1% that's worth 4 or 5 billion of profit to the airlines around the world. >> rose: if you do that for them, they will buy your engines. >> our thesis is the combination of the product with the analytics is a game changer. >> rose: you have something in greenville, south carolina called a brilliant factory. >> yeah. >> rose: what is that? >> this is basically taking everything i talked about with our customers and pushing it back into the factory. so if you look at our new gas-- i care about stuff like this. so this is a let's say 4 or 500 mega watt 63% efficient best gas terminal in the world. it was all done 3d-tronics. the design went straight from an engineers head no paper, straight into the factory, right. every piece of machine now

has sensors that can predict productivity, downtime things like that. so that kind of technology has allowed us to cut the cycle time by two years. and the learning curve will be accelerated by four years. so that's 20 or po% costout that is all driven by digitization, what we called the brilliant factory between design manufacturing and the way we service the pduct. >> and overseas? how are you different. >> again that will happen over time. but we're taking all of these ideas on the industrial internet to china to europe, all over the world so chinese airlines which are huge customers of ours, they're going to be able to use what we call predix which is our operating software to write new applications and be able to track all the same productivity that we are driving elsewhere in the world. >> but do you worry as you look at the things that might affect your business s it more a disruptive technology or is it some geo political circumstances. >> i think today so if you step back, charlie, i would

say for where ge is we're to the going to wake-- we're still in longycle high-tech there are still huge barriers to making a gas turbine or a jet engine. we're talking about ways to make it better but there are still huge barriers. i think it is geo politica i think it's governments, the way they interact with each other. things like trade. those are things that for where ge is, we're just not going to wake up tomorrow morning. seem ejs is a great company. but i'm to the going to wake up tomorrow morning and have them do something that is so disruptive. they probably feel the same way about us. but geo politics is probably the single biggest disruptive factor. >> when you say that you say relationship between countries or regulation -- >> relationships between companies, regulation volatility around the world. there are 122 conflicts going on around the world. looking we live in a time where there's underemployment. governments are volatile. people are angry. more regulation seems like the answer. trade becomes more of a burden and less of an

upside. and that place, there is no way business can hide from all the things that are going on around the world. now i could use so all those things in the u.s. but it's also europe it's also china, it's also india. it's every place in the world so the same driers exist everywhere. >> rose: so give me your analysis of what happened, what the consequences of losing the trade bill for the president, although he hasn't quite given up. >> look, i mean, i think it's a complicated story to tell, that basically says there's five percent of the world's population in this country. there's 25% of the economy in this country. most of our customers increasingly are overseas. the country is massively more competitive today. we shouldn't we shouldn't feel fear the way we feel it. that basically we need to have access we don't live in isolation. china is moving with one belt one road. they're massively investing around the world. europe is doing trade deals. everybody is doing trade deals. the fact that we can sit

here and be alone and charlie, our reach our economic reach in the world is diminishing. i was at the egyptian summit in march. president sisi trying to attract investment. germany gave them $10 billion. saudi arabia gave $ billion. we can do okay. >> rose: to do what with? >> to build power plants or hospitals or things like that. but the u.s. presence is just not what it should be in the context of events like that. >> rose: why is that? >> look, i think people-- . >> rose: is it gridlock in washington. >> sure it is. i mean think about this. in two weeks i two weeks we're not going to have any trade bills and our export -- will expire. we're the only country on earth that would have those two things happen and they're both going to happen in the next two weeks. so i would say to people that are watching this show guys, we can compete. this is a job creator. people think it's for-- people think trade bills are for people like

ge. i can globalize without them. >> rose: we worry about labor conditions around the world, that kind of thing. >> 20% of the jobs are trade jobs are the higst paying jobs. our union people have more to lose if these trade deals don't go through than they would ever gain by more protectionism so we just have to engage in the world. >> rose: but they were against it. unions were against it. >> they vote but i would say the people that work at our unions aren't voting for their own best interest when they dthat right. we're a big exporter from the united states. these are well paying jobs good paying jobs. we have a lot more to gain from trade than we-- and the other thing, everybody, all republicans an democrats say hey, don't do things for ge but we love small and medium business. small and medium businesses who benefits from this these trade bills. much more than big companies because we're already global. i just think people have lost their way. >> they get a chance to-- they can do it without building factories every ace. they get a chance to export. they get a chance to trade.

so really, think about this two weeks no trade bill. no export. >> it is really bad for the country. >> you have a presence in washington. you know the president. are on his side. >> yeah. >> i think we -- >> we communicate. >> you have the influence with the democratic party. >> look, we are all in. >> you have the people that-- we are all in on these activities. >> on doing something about t ex-- extending the bank supporting trade and making the se look, i mean. >> rose: what happened? >> i wasn't in the final room. i think globalization. >> if you weren't there you know somebody who was there. >> is a complicated sell right. i think right now it's easier to sell fear right. it is easier to tell people that this is about corporate fat cats and be afraid versus saying look the u.s. can win. we are competitive. our products work. this is more upside than downside. >> but you have a big megaphon >> and i'm using it.

i'm going to be in d.c. but i would page another point. >> i would make another point. >> i think the inside washington stuff doesn't work any more. i thinken we do this, we go to our supply chain. we go to-- so let's say there is 135,000 g workers in the u.s. that is probably 800,000 including our supply chain. >> we need to go to people that supply us every state every district and that today is much more important in these debates than what happens in washington. but we have to keep fighting for stuff like this. >> but i still don't understand how with all that going on, hillary clinton said she was against it. nancy pelosi was against it. >> look, i think you can't -- >> they weren't born yesterday. >> you can't be against trade and be for growth. >> an economic growth is the most -- >> you cannot be against trade, you cannot for well-paying middle class jobs and be against exports. it's just as simple as that. >> was there anything that could have been done to fix the bill that would have been acceptable.

>> you are going to have to interview. >> the president. >> or nancy pelosi. i don't understand the mechanics. we can't give you know. but growth is key. we're five percent of the world's population. 25% of the economy. if we can't sell our products to the rest of the world, and charlie look china is doing one belt one road. they are mass imply reaching out to the rest of the world. germany inc. is massively outreaching. the notion that we can sit here and not be at all mindful about what the rest of the world is doing those days are over. >> rose: but at the same time this is not just the united states. you are trying you've got to get european approval for big acquisitions. >> sure. >> rose: a big acquisition for you. >> yeah. >> rose: where does that stand right now? >> this is always -- a choppy process. >> rose: the regulation. >> we've done 41 deals since i have been.e.o. in europe they've all been approved this is a long process to go through. i'm still confident we're going to get it through but again, it's all part of fact that regulation has changed.

it is much tougher to get things done anywhere in the world. but you know, what-- we don't give up on things like this, right. we keep going. we keep trying and in the end we persevere. >> if you knew what i knew, people wouldn't be as afraid. if they knew what i knew about america's ability to compete right now yet all we hear about-- . >> rose: they think we need protection. >> they think that we just can't be as competitive as i know we can. there's going to be a thousand narrow body aircraft purchase in china in the next six months. these are going to be experts from the unites states, right. the engines are going to be great exports. our country needs to participate in activity like this. >> rose: has this changed the culture at ge all of what we have been talking about so far, that you have had to-- you literally have had to take ge and say we have to go in a different direction. >> really this is a different company today. really, we're -- >> inside as well. >> inside as much as outside really, more technal more

global extremely open, and just like any companies that's been around a long time willing to look ourselves in the mirror and drive change. you know exiting ge capital that is not an easy decision, right strategically you can say t emotionally it's extremely hard to dohat these are my friends we've been in the business a long time. but the financial regulatory world has changed dramatically. the ability to get returns has changed dramatically. so i think the company has always beewilling to pivot both in terms of what we do strategically but also what we do culturally. what we have in our heart we've always been able to change. >> rose: when did you know you had to do this? >> if in financial services i think we always try to be patient, right n terms of coming out of the financial crisis. we kept trying to understand the ways that the world were going to change. i think we saw a couple of things. one is, it was going to be impossible to generate a good return in go e

capitol. it just was-- with the capital requirements and things like that. our investors valued the assets much more outside the company than inside the company. and i think there was a pathway that we could see to dedesignate, if you will, ge as systemically important. those three things came together earlier this year. and when they did we just moved quickly. >> rose: but i assume you ew that before this wrer when those three things came together. i mean you knew that ge could not be a company and which 50% came from -- >> i would say in some ways. >> rose: from the banking company. >> we have been trying to invest in the industrial business for ten years. >> rose: but you didn't know how to exit. >> the financial crisis set us become for sure. and then how to exit was just not apparent until very recently. >> rose: it took strategy to do it. >> for sure. >> rose: and the market appreciating. >> for sure. >> rose: your stock has gone up. >> yeah, no no. i think it's great for the company. and i think-- look, it was hiding our great industrial businesses that really are world-class. our aviation business, our health-care business our

power business, our oil & gas business these are world-class businesses. and now people can invest in those and see them for what they are. >> rose: it is a historic pivot, though. >> no, look-- . >> rose: when you think -- >> selling -- we're probably one of the few management teams in the history of time that have sold $100 billion of businesses an bought $100 billion worth of businesses. but that's what you hav to do. >> rose: where do you put this in terms of the big decisions you've had to make. >> ge capital. >> rose: yeah. >> it's in the top five for sure. >> rose: clearly the pivot to understanding. >> cutting-- selling nbc you know the decisions we made during the financial crisis, those are the big ones. >> rose: what you have learned from those decisions? >> oh gosh, you know charlie, i think you can never be paranoid enough. i'm a much better risk manager today in terms of scenarios and different things like that. >> rose: you can always be paranoid enough about-- it's a play-off of annie grove's book which is the only paranoid-- .

>> every business, every c.e.o. is understanding of enterprise risk and the things that can go wrong in the world has been completely rewritten in the last decade. if you had a brazilian c.e.o. with you here today he or she would say when they learned about business was in the early 90s hyperinflation, things like that. if you go through as many cycles as i've gone through or as have in the last nine years you just become fan tasesically smart about how to manage cycles. >> i think i interviewed you at a conference about the time you were going through the worse. >> the wrs day of my life. >> the worse day of your life. >> i walked in-- . >> rose: we didn't even think you were coming in or might not come in. >> "the wall street journal," the entire "the wall street journal" that day ge was. and you were there. and i ed up. >> rose: you did. and we thought-- but how close was it for ge sm. >> oh, lack i mean, even at that time, i was always confident that the company would prevail would go through even though you were having a hard time. >> i really was that

never-- but i think what people don't understand, is how much it burns in us to really continue to track this company forward to continue to say look, i still remember you know the decision to issue equity during the financial crisis or cut the dividend. i personally in my heart, in my heart want to get every penny of that dividend and continue to grow it back. and do all the things we want to do to make the company more successful. >> rose: can you teach this in business school or do you have to learn this the hard way. >> there are things you can teach. but there are things you just-- there is just nobody that really i wrote about the fukushima power plant or 9/11 or hurricane katrina or the financial crisis. some of this you can teach and some of it is just again, was's in your heart persistence. you know endless drive the ability to have purpose in the company each and every day. and in the end those are

what makes ge a truly great company. >> rose: but in the end you have to get up and you hve to be-- have to a certain confidence to make the right decisions. >> leadership. >> rose: and get the right information and know whose judgement you trust. >> exactly. and leadership i think is this endless wave of learning, getting better how much you want to learn how much you want-- i am my own worst critic. i always tell people every night i to bed and say god, are you such a failure and get up the next morning and say hello handsome let's go. time for another day. and i just-- i think it's just where life is. >> rose: . >> but i love where the company is rit now. i really do. i really do. >> rose: what do you think will be its performance in the stock market? >> look, i can't predict the stock price. >> rose: do you feel good about -- >> i think this is a premium industrial company. people that follow people that follow ge people that invest in ge they see the value of the assets. we run these businesses extremely well. and i just think the company

has got a ton of tailwind right now. >> rose: you kept some of the financial business. >> we're going to keep the stuff around our assets. aircraft leasing, power. >> rose: in other words, you can finance the leasing of aircraft. >> yup. >> rose: is there more divestment coming? >>. >> i don't-- again, i never say never. we always need to be fast on our feet. but i think that the ge you see today is pretty of the ge you are going to see going into the future. we're good in everything we do. we're deep in everything we do today. >> rose: jack welch used to say you want to be one or two in every business are you in. you want to be in a premium place. >> yeah, i think we are in fantastic businesses with leadership positions. and i will go back, charlie. we're as deep as we are broad. in other words we have deep understanding of all the businesses we're in. we share ideas across the company. all of these places are places we can win and win over the long-term. >> rose: talk about energy and solar. >> uh-huh. >> rose: where do you want to go and behe. >> look, i think renewables is big in the g export port so we're big on wendt we're

big on hydro. we do solar balance of plan and renewableare going to continue to grow. we've always been believes that diversity matters in terms of energy. and so we're also in gas turbines an other technologies as well. but renewables are going to be a big part of the world's future for sure. and solar will have a growing role in that. >> rose: what are we learning from china about solar? >> kinda drove the solar panel pricing through the floor. so when you sell below cost you can do solar panpower for a while. so i think that's a-- you can find-- when dow that but look, i think elan musesq there are entrepreneurs around solar that are-- solar city, an things like that solar will be a meaningful but in the enit is going to be a balance between clean energy cost of electricity, you know jobs and things like that that all has to be blended up. and the easiest thing the u.s. can do in the short term is move to gas you know. it's cheap it's clean and it improves the environment

at the same time. so you're going to see different countries go through this and make different decisions. >> will you see this country energy independent because of -- >> i think so i would say charlie, canada u.s. mexico that triology, that nafta countries could be energy independent. we have very complimentary fuel schemes and we have you know pipeline structures and things like that that really play it together. so you know nafta north america has a tremendous amount going forward for it right now. >> rose: and in terms of being competitive. >> competitive on that competitive on a number of things. >> not competitive or foreign sources. >> exactly. it is this is going to be one of the best economic stories, i think in the next couple of years. >> where are we on battery technology. >> still to high cost but coming. learning curve orie. if you could do batteries for 15 minutes you dramatically improve our storage for 15 minutes. you dramatically improve the ability to get renew rbls on and off the grid. if you can do it for eight hours, you allow renewables.

>> you take what wind energy delivers an keep it. >> keep it. >> with an intermet int -- intermittent supply, you need low cost storage to get power on and off the grid. >> that's coming. >> it ising to happen. again, these things the beauty of ge is we can place a chip on every box right. we can do storage. we can do solar, we can do wind gas. it's going to be a combination of all these things. >> rose: has any of these ideas going to come from people like elan musk doing what he is doing or come from within a company like ge. >> look, i think -- >> how much innovation comes out of. >> in the case of energy you need skate. so at the end of the day the fact that we can scale quickly as is a huge advantage. but we're very mindful of what happens outside the company and look we m even create our own company that is outside ge that just does energy storage and energy management and things like that, that can move quicker. >> rose: what is this relationship with ge. >> it wouluse ge products as we tie themming to that

will be key but look, i think we're married to industries not business models that is true in healthcare, in aviation. we are married to the industry and we're going to go wherever it goes. >> rose: these are images of the future as far as you are concerned. >> as far as we're concerned these are both our past and the future. we will going to be huge in the energy business forever. >> rose: were you an engineer or marketing. >> i was an applied math major and started my career in product management, sales different things like that. but i have alway had a technical background yeah. >> rose: so when you look at today, when you look at the idea of where you-- what is it you need to do to, plain the concept of ge as you see it? i mean how does ge say we're a new ge? >> well, look, i think it goes back to purpose, you know, in other words, i talk about move power, build cure the world and the fact that our technical aperture is going to be broadening.

so everything we've done in physics also includes analytics and the other things we do. so we talk about. >> and you can contain the -- with all the silicon valley people and all the people bo want to you come to sill son-- silicon valley to say we're in silicon valley too and say you can develop the best software here. >> they're going to all, by the time they're 40, they're all going to work for five companies. so we want to be one of those companies that they go to work for. >> you mean like it will either be apple sore -- >> so they are going to move. >> what we've said is look if you really want to-- in other words, you are going to get a software engineer from standford or call berkeleysomething like that. they may start at facebook and stay for five years. they will go to different places. what we say to them is if you want to do industrial analytical applications and you want to do it with industry leaders around aviation this is the right company for to you go to work for. we are going to lead in this. and that value proposition is great. if they stay the rest of their career that's

awesome. we're in the really counting on that. we're kind of saying we will get in the flow. when i graduated from college-- 95% of the people would think go coming to ge. toda might be 60% coming out of college but we can pick up the other 30% on their second and third jobs. and we have to do that, we have to do that. >>ose: the all strom where is it? >> so we're in the brussels were ses. you know it's going to get approved by every other regime in the world right. our customers support. >> rose: do i hear a prayer. >> our customers support it right. so it's got a ton of things going through it go fork it. >> rose: how did you make that happen? >> oh, look it's-- the company came to us. we had always studied we knew a lot about it their c.e.o. put the company in play. we were ready. and we went for it and then we got it was almost like a final four bracket. we got so we had to compete with the german government the japanese government t

french government all at the same time. but we prevailed because when been-- . >> rose: how did you prevail is my question. >> we prevailed because we had been in france a time. and the people we had on the ground wanted us. they wanted ge to be successful. and we were extremely hard for the french government to think about that. well-known american company great french citizen. a better french citizen than most french companies and good times and bad. >> rose: ge has been. >> and we were flexible. we were willing to do a deal that was good for france good for ge good for the people. and we structure that. so you get out of that bracket. >> they made it very hard. look, i mean it's really you know people said did you expect it i have to say not really. but you know that's where you end up. and look coy never have done that my first two years as c.e.o. never. >> y just-- just didn't-- look i think charlie the longer you are a c.e.o. the more humble you become really. you know more.

you are nots much into instant gratification. you know the world doesn't always-- people don't always do exactly what you tell them to do. so i was confident enough and flexible enough to know you know what it would take. >> which begs the question you have been there as c.e.o. 14 years. you couldn't have come at a more difficult time. you came literally before 9/11, four or five days before 9/11 as i remember. you were out in see the-- seattle. we talked about that story. >> uh-huh. >> rose: so here you say i have learned about that stuff, i learned about risk how to make a deal i learned about the world that i live in, all of that. and there are certain things beyond my capacity to influence whether it's regulation, trade laws whether it's whatever. >> sure. >> rose: but i mean, how long should you be in this job. >> i think that's really a question for the board and mainly for the board and for me. i'm-- . >> rose: i pent about you. >> well, for me i'm completely fast natured by the world. >> it's never been more interesting. >> it's never been more

interesting for me. i would say for the company, you know, i have run the company when the perception was better than the create. i run the company when the reality was better than the perception. this is really the first time where perception and reality are completely in sync. completely in sync. you have no idea what a beautiful thing that is right. so i feel great about the company. i love what i do i'm extremely fascinated. with all of that, there is a point of time that is too long and we'll-- the board and i will come to that together, right. >> not any time soon. >> no, i think right now everything is great. we've got a great -- >> are you happier than have you ever been. >> this is the most fun i have had in a long long timement i don't even include the financial crisis. i go beyond that. >> i would say just again, i go back to you can see exactly, i feel like we have real control over our des tiny. and i love the team where we are right now. >> you have the right people. >> i really love the team. i love the industrial internet. the things we're working on that i think are really important for the company.

>> what is the world going stock like because. industrial internet. >> s. >> digitization in general but there is a-- here is what i would say. two things that are really great about the u.s. right now. one is energy rights. and the other one is the last 20 years of digitization we've owned. the companies the advancing art of the consumer internet that the u.s. has sown owned. the question is who will win the industrial internet. think european companies come to the fore, the chinese are going to want to play, right this will be a different ball game. >> the chinese company or the chinese government. >> i think it's going to be a combination probably of thtwo. so this will open up a new aperture f you will for people to compete. i come back to look, in order to be in the industrial internet, you have to know a lot about the assets and know model data and analytics, if you can't bring both one or the other is to the going to work. >> tell me what is happening,

the cutting edge of what you are doing in terms of health care, in terms of the kinds of-- this you are developing. >> the best thing i-- i'm sorry, go ahead. >> that will help us understand hour health care better, be more efficient about it. >> yup. >> be more informed about it. >> i think the best thing is just what is called precision medicine, personalized medicine which married the tools we have are going to allow you to see disease in ways you could never see it before. and that's now interecting with therapy right. so it's going to turn some diseases chronic. we really have to open up the brain. when i look at health care, the opening up the brain you know as more people die of aging diseases this is bad for everybody. it's horrible for patients it's bad for society. and really trying to unlock things like parkinson's disease or alzheimer. >> what you are learning about the brain is shall did --. >> unbelievable. >> even blindness of brain related diseases.

>> and there's kind of inserts people have electrodes that can really have great therapeutic impact it is moving really encouraging to see what's happened, right. that's me. >> you spent a part of your career there. >> still i'm very a affectionate about the business, very interested in the science. and we remain a big leader in health care as well yeah. >> the global economy. >> uh-huh. >> you are participating in the global economy part of the global economy. where is it in your judgement? >> slow growth and volatility, right. so if you basically lk, i would say u.s. gets better every day but still could do better. europe slow japan slow so you have 16% of the developed world. >> china is slowing down. >> kind of slow growth. china depends be the industries you are in much more volatile india good. we like africa a lot. middle east-- . >> rose: why do you like african? >> you know look, i will just big-- . >> rose: . >> they have a hundred gigawatt deficit of electricity, right.

and they're surrounded by natural gas. so to me, i say customer, right. i see opportunity. locomotives and the trick today, i go back-- i go back to the exportback. which is financing is really what is missing today in most of the world. in other words. >> rose: companies getting the resources -- >> how do you get enough financing to do these projects. and what structure should it be. should it be a combination of world bank xm we use our balance sheet, bring in third party banks whoever cracks the code on that, that is where the action is. >> who is likely to crack the code. >> the chinese are tre every day. i come back to it's all well and good for the president and leader pell os-- pell osi and speaker boehner an everybody to have that debate. it's a circle that big. meanwhile, the chinese are going a million miles an hour, right. the germans are going a million miles an hour. >> rose: they are also engaging in bilateral relationships. >> today, today, for sure. when we go to africa we don't really compete with

our classic competitors. we're competing with china south rail or chinese epcs or other you know other world players. >> rose: is it a very difficult competition because they are offering more that you don't have? >> american capitalism is still the post desired in the world. because we have great technology. and we train people. the combination of having-- we're a good partner and we train people. it's still the biggest competitive advantage we have. >> rose: do we risk in this country bus we're not investing as much as we should in that, losing that edge? >> oh sure. the success is guaranteed-- success is guaranteed to no one. and i think this-- it looks like 's disengaginging for two weeks no trade authority, no export bank. >> rose: in two weeks. >> what do you thinked rest of the world looks at us and you know there are 60 export banks, charlie. do you think one country in the world would actually unplug their export bank today. how are going to -- >> i don't understand knowing that an feeling as you do how essential it is

you weren't in washington there. you weren't taken advantage of maybe you were and i don't foe about it. >> flat out, flat out but look. >> so fog but saying don't let this happen. >> don't let it happen. and export you know look for, to take a stand, people say okay that's crony capitalism and look at these guys. i think we are-- trade authority? i don't need it. i don't need it we're already there. but you say you like a small business. why don't you try to help them for a change. they say we love small business. we lover medium size business do nothing to help them. so you you know, i think we just have to be more forceful about how to get these points through. >> how much do you worry about cybersecurity. >> a lot. >> look, i run the cybertask force inside the company. >> why do you do that? >> because a i want to learn-- a, i think it's hugely important. b, i want to learn about it personally. i say c it's emerging right, so you know you're

only as smart as the last theft you've learned about and i want to make sure that the company is moving on all paths an i can do that for from my-- i view this as one of the realant price risks of this era for sure. >> and how do you stop it and prevent it. >> i don't think you can totally stop it. i think you have to protect -- >> you have to have all the best, look we get hit we stop continuously. we get hit every day. so we just have to keep upping our game take everything we learnnd spread it throughout the company and be again extremely paranoid about where is goes. >> there is an idea that is part of the new thinking about america that we can become a manufacturing country again. >> uh-huh. >> how does that happen? >> look i think in terms of having more content more manufacturing could be tent that's going to happen right. new technology. >> because of technology. >> yeah, technology drives -- >> really, labor as a percentage of total cost is low. we have all the right assets all the right people to do it. whether that means the percentage of jobs goes from

10% to 12% or 11% to 13% it's to the going to go back up to 20%. and again, i think german's is a good model for us. which is they're a big export country, a big manufacturing country, they have higher labor costs than we have. there is no reason why the u.s. can't aspire to be as good as both those things as germany is. >> at the same time ger manny is an export country and china has been an erck port company, but china is trying to turn their economic model around. >> they need more consumption. >> we have consumption. the difference for us, here is what i would say, i would say this country solves none of our problems with 2% growth well. can solve almost all of our problems with three and a half percent or four% growth conditions can you see four% growth. >> the difference is consumer can only do some of. we have to start investing back in to capital expenditure and factorys again. and one of the things that makes that possible are export markets. you know. global trade if you want the country to grow faster again, we need more we need

more trade. >> what else can we do to accentuate growth. >> energy digitization. i think a real focus on manufacturing, trade and the last one is love small and medium business. we make it impossible for small businesses to successful in this country. too much regulation, too many changes coming down their throat. small and med yum business is the heart of every country. and we need to do that. now i don't even mention things like tax reform or infrastructure or some of the things that should happen but are just seem too hard today. i think we just focus on energy trade manufacturing and small business. we can make progress. >> you talked about how much you have learned here. >> uh-huh. >> and you couldn't have done it other than on the j, in terms of risk analysis, in terms of how to negotiate, a range of things really seeing how the world works so we're going to have an election in 2016. what kind of president dow want to see?

>> growth. >> somebody who is pro growth growth. >> listen a speech and if you wants to build a factory after you hear somebody's speech then that should be the candidate we go to. i just think fear class warfare, all the other stuff, i don't think that's going to get it done. really, if middle class people could create jobs for other-- create investments to create their own jobs, we would have plenty of jobs. but we need investors to invest again. we need them to hire more people and we need growth to do that. >> and they're not doing that because. >> i think for us our pathway is clear. >> but for small and medium business, i think they see too much volatility. they really are not investing like they used to. >> they don't see certainty. >> at the don't see certaintand they're not they don't see export markets, right. and i just think i just think progrowth right. all of us all of us look i took you to my factory

and did you a round table with our production people in a factory would you love them. you would love them. >> i would love them because. >> because they are concerned concerned. they're productive. they know the job they're doing. things like that they're not going to sit there and say you know what, you know what i hate i hate goldman sacks i hate wall street bankers they don't say that they want more investment better education. >> thanks for coming. >> thanks, charlie. >> jeff immelt c.e.o. and chairman of general electric. >> for more about this progm and earlier episodes visit us yen line at pbs.org and charley rose.com captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

. >> funding for carlie rose is provided by american express. additional funding provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. in tomorrow the secretary report in the series cuban evolution as development begins, how to protect cuban architecture and culture. >> you

this is "nightly business report" with tyler mathisen and sue herrera. >> stalemate talks between greece and its creditors go nowhere. and that's not the only thing rattling investors. there's also unc surrounding the fed. >> few and far between. why deals in the home building sector like today's merger of ryland and standard pacific don't happen often. >> consolidation waves from cigna to anthem and united health and aetna. is merger maenaa catching on in the health care industry? all that and more on "nightly busi re and we bid you good evening, everybody. i'm bill griffith in for tyler mathisen. >> great to have you with us. i'm sue herrera. it's a new week, of