captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc >> woodruff: the battle over the cofederate flag in the wake of a mass shooting lawmakers in south carolina call for it to come down, confronting a troubled history of hatred and violence. good evening, i'm judy woodruff. >> ifill: and i'm gwen ifill. also ahead this monday: >> i want to stand for the people. not for the banks. >> ifill: deadlock on bad debt in greece, what's at stake for a nation on the brink. >> woodruff: plus, how california farmers facing historic drought can grow crops faster and with less water. >> you can do them anywhere, you can do them indoors, outdoors in warehouses, on rooftops empty alleyways, empty parking

lots, so all the space that's being underutilized in urban areas could be transformed easily into an aquaponics system. >> woodruff: those are some of the stories we're covering on tonight's "pbs newshour." >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: ♪ ♪ ♪ moving our economy for 160 years. bnsf, the engine that connects us. >> and the william and flora hewlett foundation, helping people build immeasurably better lives.

>> and with the ongoing support of these institutions >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> ifill: the governor of south carolina called today for removing the confederate battle flag from the state capitol grounds. republican nikki haley bowed to growing demands after a gunman killed nine people at a black church in charleston. the suspect, dylann roof, had featured the flag in photos of himself. today, haley was flanked by leaders from both parties, as she reversed her previous opposition to removing the flag. >> charles stop hoped his actions would start a race war. we have an opportunity to show that not only was he wrong, but

that just the opposite is happening. my hope is that by removing the symbol that divides us we can move forward in the state in harmony and we can honor the nine blessed souls who are now in heaven. >> ifill: religious and political leaders plan to rally at the state capitol tomorrow, to press for the flag's removal. but the "sons of confederate veterans" group said it will oppose that step. meanwhile, president obama will deliver the eulogy at friday's funeral for emmanuel a.m.e. church pastor and state senator clementa pinckey, who was among those murdered. >> woodruff: maryland governor larry hogan announced today he has cancer of the lymph nodes. he said it's, quote, "very advanced" and "very aggressive" but he plans to continue in office while undergoing chemotherapy. hogan is a republican who took office in january. he joked today that he stands a better chance of beating cancer than he did of winning office in a heavily democratic state. >> ifill: in afghanistan, a taliban suicide bomber and six

gunmen attacked the parliament building in kabul. no lawmakers were hurt, but 31 civilians were wounded. a member of parliament was speaking as a large explosion rattled the building, and lawmakers rushed to exit. police say the attackers tried to storm the place. >> ( translated ): a car full of explosives hit a wall at the eastern side of the parliament and ministry of finance, their target was to enter to the parliament house, six armed men were trying to enter but all of them were killed by the security forces. >> ifill: the attack came as taliban fighters seized a district in northern afghanistan, the second in just two days. >> woodruff: the u.s. army has reprimanded the man who oversaw the training of iraqi forces. major general dana pittard could also be demoted. "the washington post" reports he was accused of steering a defense contract to a firm run by two of his former west point classmates. it happened at a time when pittard was commander in charge at fort bliss, texas.

>> ifill: the european union launched a naval operation today against traffickers who've been smuggling migrants across the mediterranean. the goal is to destroy the traffickers' boats, before they can be used. more than 100,000 have reached europe this year, but hundreds more have died. >> woodruff: united nations investigators concluded today that both israel and the palestinian group, hamas, may have committed war crimes during last summer's war in gaza. over 50 days, israel and hamas traded thousands of air strikes and rockets. more than 21,000 palestinians, mostly civilians, were killed. israeli dead included 67 soldiers and six civilians. u.n. officials say both sides must accept responsibility. >> accountability should be, must be, a key ingredient in such a process, and we must remember that victims are not just numbers or collateral damage, that unfortunate word, they are individual people with

human rights and they are entitled to effective remedies for any violations of these rights. >> woodruff: israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu branded the u.n. a biased institution and rejected the report. hamas called for prosecuting israeli leaders, but ignored criticism of its own actions. >> ifill: back in this country, the senate moved to confirm a leader for the transportation security administration, the agency that handles airport security. coast guard vice admiral peter neffenger has promised to close security gaps at airports, laid bare by an internal investigation. the t.s.a. post has been vacant since december. >> woodruff: the number of have agreed in principal on reforms that the riker's island jail complex. a class action suit by injured inmates had alleged wide spread brutality by guards. the reforms will include a federal monitor and thousands of video cameras.

>> ifill: the number of veterans enduring long waits at v.a. hospitals has jumped 50% from a year ago. the department of veterans affairs was hit by a scandal last year over false records and long wait times. a "new york times" report says a surge in demand swamped efforts to fix the problem. >> woodruff: and on wall street stocks gained on hopes for a breakthrough in the greek bailout talks. the dow jones industrial average gained more than 100 points to close near 18,120. the nasdaq rose 37 points. and the s-and-p added 13. still to come on the newshour: the politics of confederate flags with tamara keith and susan page; roots of racial hatred in wake of the mass shooting in charleston; greece waits with bated breath for an emergency economic deal over debt; the supreme court boosts privacy and property rights in today's decisions; why growing crops in water could help farmers during a historic drought; and, the secret experiments of

world war two, testing nerve gases on troops, by race. >> woodruff: now the confederate flag and the presidential race. the killings in charleston returned the rebel banner to the forefront in south carolina and to the 2016 agenda. >> take it down! >> woodruff: thousands gathered on the grounds of the south carolina state capitol this weekend to protest the continued presence of the confederate battle flag. the issue's also alive again for republican presidential candidates, eight months out from the south carolina primary. this was former arkansas governor mike huckabee, sunday on n.b.c. >> everyone's being baited with this question as if somehow that has anything to do whatsoever with running for president. and my position is, it most certainly does not.

>> woodruff: over on a.b.c. former pennsylvania senator rick santorum agreed. >> i don't think the federal government or federal candidates should be making decisions on everything and opining on everything. this is a decision that needs to be made here in south carolina. >> woodruff: but today, south carolina senator lindsey graham called for the flag's removal. and on saturday, former florida governor jeb bush said on facebook: >> woodruff: in addition, the party's 2012 nominee, mitt romney, tweeted that: on the democratic side, hillary clinton took on the broader question of racism in america, on saturday in san francisco. >> i know that so many of us hoped that by electing our first

black president we had turned the page on this chapter in our history. but despite our best efforts and our highest hopes, america's long struggle with race is far from finished. >> woodruff: clinton, who came out in 2007 for removing the flag from the south carolina state house grounds in 2007 said millions of people of color still experience racism daily. to take a closer look at this intersection of politics, race and history we go to our politics monday panel. this week, we're joined by susan page of usa today and tamra keith of n.p.r. we welcome you both back. >> good to be here. >> woodruff: so this reversal by governor nicky haley a republic governor of south carolina whether the flag should be displayed. susan imagine what's the significance of that. >> i think it means for south care politicians, there's been a

tipping point with this terrible tragedy in charleston. you had the governor you had both senators and members of the house standing up there saying it's time for the confederate flag to come down where it stands near the state capitol now. you heard governor haley be i think quite eloquent in both addressing 9 feelings of those who feel that the flag is an expression of their heritage and their history not an expression of racism but making the argument that given what it means to others and given the way the flag was brandished by the girl in charleston that it is time for it to go. >> woodruff: was this inevitable after what happened. >> it sales like there was a chorus of growing people saying there's still this flag flying on the state grounds. and what governor haley said was no one is going to tell you that this flag is important to your heritage that you have to stop flying it at your house. however, she said it has no

place on state grounds. and given everyone she had standing around her, it seems like it just tipped. and then sort of the flood gates opened of other politicians, presidential candidates, the rnc chairman. all of these statements coming out saying governor haley made the right move. >> i would just say tit for politicians and the poll we had last november by winter had 72% of white voters in south carolina supporting the flag. and you need two thirds vote of the state legislature to consider taking down the flag another two thirds vote to take it down. so we aren't at the end of this debate. >> woodruff: you have two republicans senator joining the republican governor. mitt romney made the statement right after the charleston shooting susan saying he thought the flag should come down. today after the governor's announcement, do we expect

they're all going to end up in the sale position or what do we think. >> i think they're going to support what the governor said. that's an easy out for them because some of the republic presidential candidates are being cautious to say that is a matter for the state to consider. remember there's that big primary in south carolina which matters a lot. so i think there's a lot of caution until the governor steps forward and now they all see a path to this issue. >> woodruff: i think tamra i read over the weekend scott walker governor of wisconsin was saying we need to wait at least until the victims of charleston should be buried. >> there's the discussion of states rights presidential candidates shouldn't weigh in on this, this is up to the state to decide. by coming out and making the strong statement the governor has sort of allowed others to agree with her, essentially. >> woodruff: what about on the other side of the ledger. democrats had taken the position

the flag should come o we heard hillary clinton's comment about race. are they saying things among bernie sanders, hillary clinton martin o'malley to distinguish themselves about race. >> i think what they're seeing with the democrats now after about eight years of not wanting to take very much about race because president obama described the ground breaking election in 2008 has been very reluctant to address race unless it's been forced upon him. and that's changed. i think we've seen that change with some of the black men at the hands of the police and we definitely saw it in the wake of this charleston shooting where he's increasingly talking about this issue and so is mrs. obama. that opens the door to the kind of discussion about race in this country. i don't think we've really seen maybe forever, certainly not for a very long time. >> woodruff: it's striking isn't it tamra. >> tomorrow actually hillary clinton will be in missouri very near ferguson talking about these very issues again. she's going right to the heart

where this was last year. >> woodruff: it's interesting that guns, the president made a comment, tamra right after charleston happened about guns and he hoped washington would take another look at that. we haven't heard very much about that. do we think there's going to be any movement on guns? >> no. and the president doesn't expect there really to be any movement on guns. he said, you know if the senate couldn't pass background check last bipartisan background check less after 20 kids were killed in new town, what is going to change with this shooting. the pure political numbers have changed so the senate and house are both controlled by republics. i was talking to a law professor who studied the nation's gun laws and he said it makes so much sense so really too america when it comes to guns. initial reaction when democrats and the president say we need fewer guns or more gun control. the initial reaction of other half of america was to say well we need more guns to protect people, there should have been

guns in that church. when there's that divide, it's really hard for people to look at this tragedy and figure out a path forward. >> woodruff: that seems to be the reaction susan after the shootings. it happened after new town. >> when you poll americans you see some support for gun measures like enhanced background checks. what's really happened is the nature of politics prevebts that from happening despite public support for them. >> woodruff: do you think anything's going to change as a result of this? >> i don't see any way it changes on guns. there's a strangle hold by the nra and some other gun lobbyists that makes it seemingly impossible to report even in the face, we know the majority of gun owners support enhanced background checks and yet still this can't seem to get passed. >> woodruff: less than a minute but i want to ask you both quickly. there's a new poll 0u8, nbc, "wall street journal" showing good news for a couple of the republic candidates, tamra, what do you make of that.

>> in part this is a poll that asks, could you see yourself voting for this person. for the good news for jeb bush is that republican voters could see themselves voting for him. it's part popularity part name recognition, part palatablity. >> woodruff: it's so susan. does something like this matter. >> it's very interesting. scott walker, because he wasn't first in terms of could you see yourself voting for him. but he was the lowest if i could not see myself possibly voting for him. so he's got the most to grow. a lot of republics don't know about him yet. i thought that was the most interesting finding in that survey. >> woodruff: there will be more polls i have a feeling between now and election. susan panel and tal raw keith. while the confederate flag controversy there was roots of the charleston attacks. were they motivated by racial animus or individual alienation. in an unusually blunt

contribution to the discussion, president obama weighed in friday during a podcast that was posted on-line today. in the interview with comedian mark maron, he was asked to common on the roots of racism. and in making his point, employed a racial epithet. we are not editing that portion of the president's remarks. >> it is incontrovertible that race relations have improved during my lifetime and yours and that opportunities have opened up, and that attitudes have changed. that is a fact. what is also true is that the legacy of slavery, jim crow, discrimination in every institution in our lives, that casts a long shadow and that is still part of our dna. that's passed on. we're not cured of it, racism. we are not cured of it.

and it's not just a matter of it not being polite to say nigger in public as a measure of whether racism still exists or not. it's not just a matter of overt discrimination. societies don't overnight erase everything that's happened 200 to 300 years prior. >> woodruff: the president's comments spurred a lively online debate that ranged from cause to effect. among the questions being asked: was this attack a form of domestic terrorism? for our discussion, i'm joined by gregg mccrary, a former f.b.i. profiler who has specialized in tracking and understanding violent predators. paul butler, a professor of law at georgetown university who teaches about race relations. and richard cohen, president of the southern poverty law center. richard cohen, what is your take on the question of domestic

terrorism, especially in this particular case in charleston. >> i think it's a case of domestic terrorism. it's political violence by non-state actor aimed at intimidating a large group of people. it's the classic definition. also i think the technical definition under federal law. i think it's a pretty clear case of domestic terrorism. >> ifill: professor butler what is your sense not in this case but in general. >> it was surreal to here governor haley announce today the civil war ended 150 years ago like that was breaking news. i'm not sure she's right. what happened in charleston is a sped up version of the kind of violence that african americans have experienced for 400 years. we can talk about slavery and the lynchings that happened after slavings or the unarmed african american people who get

killed by police officers. the terrorist said he wanted to start a race war toward all african americans. it feels like we've been in a race war for the last 400 years. >> ifill: you spent a lot of time testifying as an expert witness in these type of cases. in this particular case, do you think it's about alienation or about race? >> it's both. i think these individuals and i think etcetera going to play out when we find out more about this individual feel alienated. they become paranoid. they have a sense of identity confusion. they're not sure who they are or what's going on. that makes them vulnerable to extremist ideas. that sword of call drunk they latch on to these sort of things. they are under achievers, don't form well relations with other people. that drives them to the internet. when they turn there, they can find support for these extreme beliefs that they have and that

reinforces this. then eventually it turns to violence. >> ifill: let's talk about the internet portion about this richard cohen because one of the things you talk about at your site is white genocide. can you explain what you mean by that. >> there's this idea in the white supremist world that white people are under attack. they look at south africa, they look at the former outlaw state of rodesia. they look at the changing demographics of our country and they come to the same conclusion. there's a genocide against white people afoot. let had he say something that i think is important to know. in a milder form this is something one sees in a broader segment of american society. and what i mean by that is, white people today are more likely to think that they are the victims of discrimination than are black people in our country. they tend to see racism or race relations as a zero sum gain.

the roots are an extraordinary extreme case of this white racial resentiment. but there's a certain amount of this simmering in society at large i'm afraid. >> ifill: paul butler. >> that's the connection between what happened in charleston and what happened in ferguson. and the unemployment rate for african americans right now is 10%. and we think that the economy is doing fine. if you're black and you send out a resume you get half as many call backs, same resume for a white person. if you're black you don't even get the same kind of healthcare. if you try to get an apartment, you don't get the apartment even if you have the same qualifications as a white person. so all of that structural violence, all of that structural stuff is a form of violence as well. >> ifill: gregg mccrary, you just heard richard cohen talk about the excel runs of the internet. is that what you saw also, these groups drifted on some level but

there's something about being able to share them quickly. we know that the shooter, the alleged shooter in charleston had a lot of connections on-line. >> yes. that's exactly right. in other words paul was talking about the reality of what's going on. for individuals like this, the perception of what they have is entirely different than the reality, the reshare. his reality is this idea of white genocide or he made that comment just before the shooting that black people are raping and murdering and so forth. so that's the perception that this delusional paranoid belief system that these people had. >> ifill: who are these people. who are susceptible for this kind of belief system. >> it can be anyone. it can be political it can bay religious or very idiosyncratic. these are people who are vulnerable, they don't typically integrate in sewed, they send to be losers, unemployed, like this

guy with a 10th grade education, doesn't belong to society and goes searching for like minded violent individuals who the falls the file, fuels the animus. in cases like this it propels them to actually act out in a very predatory manner. >> ifill: richard cohen is there a strain, are there signs we should be looking for to root something like this out. it's one thing to say this is a terrible thing to say but another thing is to see it coming. we put drones in the cry. what do we do for the best of terrorism. >> i think it's a very tough question, gwen. it's harder to prevent but there are some practical things we can do. the law enforcement officials would sayxd see something, say something. be alert to the signs. there are a lot of signs that this kid might have been a few

bubbles off plumb. our schools have an important role to play. our political figures if we can tamp down some of the horribly polarizing rhetoric, maybe we have a calming effect. we all have a role to play and we know it's not easy. >> ifill: invariably paul after these cases there's a call for conversations, these conversations. should the conversation about race or should it be about racism. >> it should be about racism and white supremacy. we have to disrupt this rush to a kumbiyah moment. they chanted all lives matter. that was a corruption of black lives matter. it was a willful blindness to talk about racism and white supremacy. and it's part of the problem. all lives, he went after african americans and we need to

acknowledge that. >> just to reinforce what we're talking about as far as identification. almost always there's some leakage of these individuals leak intent. it could be on-line. now we've seen he's got this manifesto. >> ifill: he told some of his friends. >> that's what we talked about earlier, see something say something. that's the right idea. sometimes the people they disclose this to are like minded individuals and they feel they can trust them so it doesn't come out. other times people just disbelieve they're really going to do anything. but that's the key. if we're going to have early intervention and stop this, people hear this, we see this leakage, they need to come forward with this and we can perhaps get some intervention to prevent this. >> ifill: i want to ask each of you to respond something the president said in that interview in the mud -- mud cast today. about race many is a long should

owe still part of our dna. richard cohen is it part of our dna. >> it's part of the original sin of this country. it's like the big bang of the american universe that reverb rates through everything. you know, i think the president is absolutely right. race relations are so different than they were 50 years ago but it's a cliche but it's true. we have an enormously far way to go. >> ifill: that seems awfully, the president also said, we've come a long way. i guess it's a matter of emphasis. >> well i mean i think it also is a matter of time frames, right. i'm 60 years old. i've seen a lot of change in my period of time. if you're 30 years old maybe the world seems very very stagnant. i think there's that element as well. >> ifill: paul butler. >> racial subordination is the premise of the american project. the capitol and the whitehouse

were built with slave labor. everything that white people have they have in part because they are white. we have to disrupt that status quo. that's what the president meant when he said racism is part of our dna. our dna has got to be changed. >> ifill: gregg mccrary. >> yes, i do believe it's part of the cultural dna that we all share. and it is poison, it is toxic. it obviously needs to be changed. the more we deal with this openly and have this sort of discussion move it along at least incrementally i hope. >> ifill: that's what wre working at here. professor paul butler of georgetown university gregg mccrary a former fbi profiler and richard cohen the president of the southern poverty law center thank you all for contributing. >> thank you. >> woodruff: an emergency meeting on the greek debt crisis

fell short of agreement today. but the chair of the eurozone finance ministers' meetings said a deal could come later this week, and that the group is using new proposals by greek president alexis tsipras, which include spending cuts and reforms, as a basis for further talks. special correspondent malcolm brabant reports from athens, where residents worry as a june 30th deadline draws closer. >> reporter: waving greek flags thousands of demonstrators gathered outside parliament to insist that the country must remain within the euro zone. they're afraid that bankruptcy and departure from the common currency will spell disaster for greece. and it appears tonight that they will have a reprieve, as the latest proposals put forward by the radical prime minister alexis tsiprias, go some way towards meeting the creditors demands. it will mean higher taxes for the rich, some extra sales taxes but he's reportedly refusing to cut pensions. twenty four hours earlier the message coming from this place was totally different.

as the heat was being turned up on greece, supporters of the left wing syriza government took over the grounds of parliament to urge prime minister tsipras not to surrender to the creditors. >> reporter: the hourly changing of the guard at the tomb of the unknown soldier was chaotic as demonstrators chanted that the country was not for sale. greece has a glorious history of resistance, and also of painful defeat. with the country on the brink of bankruptcy, former bank worker, eteokles politopoulos urged the government not to alter course. politipoulos has been unemployed for 18 months after resigning because he couldn't bear working for a bank. >> what are the risks? we don't know. but i want to stand for the people. i don't know if that makes any meaning. not for the banks. but that's what i want.

>> reporter: veteran actress lydia lenossi, is famous for her performances on stage, film and television. but if she wants to pursue her craft these days, she knows she has to do it for free. her sign says no giving in to blackmail. >> when i tell you that we don't get paid, how can i explain how difficult it is? it is very difficult. in greece we cannot live any more. they want us to die. they want to extinguish greece. i would like to say no. that's it five years. twelve thousand suicides. >> reporter: today dawned with storm clouds, as a series of crucial meetings loomed, with the european union determined to force concessions from greece. although more than a billion dollars a day was being withdrawn from banks last week the cash machines were still working, and fears that the banks might be closed for business failed to materialize. conservative politician anna

asimakopoulou is relieved that the syriza government appears to have come up with a deal that may fend off bankruptcy, but she doesn't like the details. >> everything we hear is taxes taxes and taxes, and that's clearly not going to bring growth. so that's our major objection to the contents of the deal. but having said that a deal is clearly much better than no deal. and unfortunately mr tsipras has brought us to this horrible situation. >> reporter: greek american investment advisor phillip ammerman is doubtful whether the extra taxes offered to creditors promised in the deal will materialize. >> i would say i think it's extremely dangerous. it's been dangerous for the past two months, there's been a huge lack of trust on either side, this is probably merited from either side from how the negotiations have proceeded. there is also a lot of misinformation. that a deal will be finalized

that will enable greece on the next of 8 billion dollars from the bailout fund. the government here certainly believes that the country has been saved. the president of the european commission has got somexd proposals from greece that he likes. he like many others wants to see an end to this high stages game of poker. but they took out $2 billion from the bank and they're running out of cash and the european central bank needs to put more liquidity into the banking system to make sure they can open tomorrow and the country doesn't panic. pbs newshour, this is malcolm brabant in athens. >> ifill: the supreme court issued a set of rulings today with a unifying theme restricting government power and boosting individual rights. both cases happened in california in one, a los angeles hotel owner questioned a city law requiring him to turn guest lists over to police.

200 miles north, in fresno, another case tested whether the government could seize some of a farmer's raisin crop in order to control prices. joining me to discuss these opinions out today is our regular high court contributor marcia coyle from the national law journal. there are a lot of thing out of the court at the end of june, but in the meantime, this was really kind of interesting. both of these cases were a little bit about government restraint. let's start by talking about the california raisin board. >> okay. the raisin administrative

>> really in this particular case, it's a family farm, the horns, who as you said grow raisins in california. they participated in what is a volunteer program for 30 years. but in early 2000 for two years they decided not to turn over their raisins to the administrative committee. the united states brought an enforcement action against them because they weren't complying with the order imposed penalty of almost half a million dollars for those two years. they challenged the raisin program saying that it violated the fifth amendment take, clause.

as you know gwen, the fifth amendment taking clause requires the government to pay just compensation when it takes private property for a public purpose. the lower federal court hearing the horns' case, these are the growers say personal property receives less protection under the clause than real property. and the supreme court today in an 8-1 decision written by the chief justice said no. he said that the fifth amendment applies to personal property as well as real property. the government takes your car it's going to apply, if the government takes your home it's going to apply. >> ifill: the second case is more about social seizure but this is about an ordinant in los angeles about hotels taking your name and administering guests and police can come and look at them at any time. >> that's right. the talks about hotel guest registries and then said that had to be made accessible to law enforcement when it wanted to look at the registries.

the city claimed that some motels and hotels were used for drug trafficking, human trafficking and prostitution which was a way for the police to try to keep track of this and clamp down on it. the ordinance was challenged by a group of motel owners who said that this violated the 4th amendment which protects us from unreasonable searches and seizures. today the court in a decision by justice sotomayor agreed with the hotel owners. she said that it was an unreasonable search to have the police have full access whenever they wanted. because there was no precompliance review process. so if an owner objected he could go to a neutral third party. he or she could go to a third neutral party and make the case. she said this wasn't particularly burdensome on law enforcement because they could still get something called an administrative subpoena to look at the registry. >> ifill: another way.

>> right. it doesn't require a probable cause like a warrant does. >> ifill: doesn't it means to you, the court ruled against the government, the government reach in in in both of these cases. >> yes. it's curbing what law enforcement can do. also justice sotomayor and the majority didn't feel that was a big burden for them. justice scalia wrote desent and said hotels and motels were closely regulated industries which the court said are really an exception to the 4th amendment. and he felt that the searches here would be completely reasonable because of the history of modals was being haven for prostitution drug trafficking. >> ifill: we'll wait for the other big shoe to drop later this week perhaps marcia. >> thursday and friday, gwen ifill i'll thanks a lot.

>> my pleasure. >> woodruff: an ancient farming technique that uses far less water than traditional agriculture is getting new attention around the country, especially in the drought stricken west. the newshour's cat wise has our report. >> reporter: in a greenhouse nestled in a valley near half moon bay california, farmer ken armstrong is tending to his herd. some 3,000 fish who are key members of a complex ecosystem that also includes some helpful bacteria, and these floating leafy greens. there's not a speck of soil to be seen here at ouroboros farms where armstrong and his colleagues are growing produce with an agricultural system known as aquaponics. >> the fish are the integral part of the system. they provide the nutrients for the system, so we feed our fish an organic fish feed. so this becomes the nutrient base for all of our plants. the food that the fish eat becomes useable nitrogen by the plants. so the fish are actually the

engine of growth. this is where the magic happens. >> reporter: in other words, the fish waste becomes food for the plants, and the plants in turn clean the water for the fish. its a delicately balanced system that requires some basic science to master. >> i had to do a lot of research, and there was a little bit of trial and error, we lost a few batches of fish before we finally just figured out how the whole system worked well. >> reporter: armstrong isn't the first farmer to try aquaponics. its method that's been around for a really long time. its believed the aztecs and ancient cultures in parts of asia used wild fish to fertilize their crops. today, aquaponics is being used in a number of countries from myanmar, to peru, to germany. even on rooftops in gaza. in the u.s., a small number of backyard hobbyists have been tinkering with the system for years. but until recently, it hasn't been tried on a large-scale commercial basis. now, the team at ouroboros farms, and a handful of other operations around the country,

are giving it a go. >> this is like a conveyor belt of produce. >> reporter: jessica pattons official title on the farm is plant whisperer. she harvests 2,000 heads of lettuce a week, which sell for about $3.00 each, roughly the same cost as an organic head of lettuce. she says the plants here grow about a third faster than if they were grown in soil. >> in traditional farming methods the plant expends a lot of energy sending out a tap root and trying to find nutrients. we have a constant nutrient system under the plants so what happens is the plants can expend their energy growing instead of sending out energy in a root mass. >> reporter: faster plant growth is one benefits of aquaponics, but the other big one is water usage, a critical issue in drought stricken california where a large percentage of the states developed water goes to agriculture. some in the aquaponics industry claim their systems use about 90% less water than traditional soil farming.

>> there's almost no evaporation in these systems, the only usage of water comes through transpiration, what the plants actually utilize. comparing to soil agriculture plants can only take up water through the tips of their roots, so you need to soak the top layer of soil in order for the water to get down to where the plant can actually use it. that top layer of topsoil, all that water just evaporates. overhead spraying a lot of the >> reporter: the 60,000 gallons of water at ouroboros have been circulating for a year. weekly top-offs are needed, but the overall water savings for each plant grown is significant. for example, armstrong says a mature head of lettuce in his operation uses about a gallon of water over its six week growth cycle, far less than a similar head of lettuce grown in soil. but for all its benefits aquaponics does have its limitations. it doesn't make sense economically to grow certain staple foods like wheat and corn given the infrastructure of the system. and a big drawback is cost.

armstrong, who is independently wealthy, spent a quarter of a million dollars to build the system. in march, after three years in operation, he finally began to make a profit. but he thinks it will be another three years before hell make his money back. >> we are a long way off from aquaponics taking the place of traditional agriculture. >> reporter: fred conte from the university of california at davis, one of the country's top agricultural schools, studies aquaponics. he says the drought has piqued interest in the technique, but it remains a very small, niche way to grow produce. >> scaling up that system is the difficult part. once you get beyond about an acre of production, then it moves out from the family type operation. you're hiring more and more people and costs go up, and its right now, its a high-end business, all the way from the production of the operation into

the consumption of the vegetables as well. >> reporter: a high-end business with a tesla delivery vehicle, armstrong hand-delivers most of the farm's weekly orders to a small number of upscale bay area restaurants. >> hey chris, hey ken, how's it going buddy? >> reporter: one of his top customers is christopher aquino, executive chef of viognier restaurant in the city of san mateo. >> oh these are awesome. the smaller the better. like that's the size we want. >> reporter: aquino says the superior quality of the leafy greens he gets from ouroborus is only one reason he buys from them. >> the reason why we've gone with ken is his water usage is significantly less than most other farms. i can be conscious about my water usage, not so much about how much water is going down my drains, but how much water are my farmers using? >> reporter: armstrong says now that his farm is up and running, he intends to spread knowledge about aquaponics around the country. >> i honestly believe that this is the future of farming. you can do them anywhere, you

can do them indoors, outdoors, in warehouses, on rooftops empty alleyways, empty parking lots, so all the space that's being underutilized in urban areas could be transformed easily into an aquaponics system. >> reporter: later this summer, ouroboros farms will host a four-day workshop for those interested in starting commercial aquaponics operations. several hundred are expected attend. for the pbs newshour, im cat wise in half moon bay, california. >> woodruff: it was a painful horrifying and secret part of america's history during world war ii. the u.s. government conducted experiments with mustard gas and other chemicals on some u.s. troops at the time. that chapter of history was first revealed in the early nineties.

now, a new investigation by n.p.r. finds the military used race-based experiments as part of those tests. african american men, as well as japanese-american and puerto rican soldiers were singled out. these pictures show the forearms of men exposed to mustard gas and other agents. some, like rollins edwards, are living with the effects decades later, including injuries to their skin. caitlin dickerson led n.p.r.'s investigation. susan smith is a professor of history at the university of alberta, canada who has studied and written extensively about this. thank you both for being with us. caitlin dickerson, you first. how did you hear about all this? what led you to the story. >> so to explain that judy, i have to start by telling you that these tests were part of a much larger body of experiments that the u.s. military conducted during world war ii involving

around 60,000 enlisted men. i was looking into the veterans administration who in the 1990's when those tests were first exposed, promised to provide disability benefits to veterans who sustained permanent injure in those tests. that will air later this week we started to come across the names of studies that really stood out to us. like comparison of first generation japanese americans white soldier chairson the way negro to white soldier when exposed to mustard gas. those were the first threads of evidence of these experiments we found, started pulling on those and then we came across using the work submitting requests to federal government for original documents. that's where it all started. >> woodruff: susan smith, you had been doing work looking into this. how extensive were these tests using mustard gas and other chemical agents. >> certainly there was a lot of medical research on chemical weapons for world war ii.

and the mustard gas experiments in particular as caitlin mentioned, some 60,000 american soldiers were used in experiments. but i was quite struck by the nine race-based experiments that i located. there's at least nine. there could have been more, but in the published scientific records, i found experiments on japanese americans, african americans and port recanes. >> woodruff: what was the effect of these, periments. we should some of those photographs but what do these experiments do to these men. >> sure. mustard gas it reacts with human dna right away cannot seconds of making contact and causes irreversible damage. frequently you'll see things like chronic skin problems including skin conners that never goes away.

rollins edwards still has thick scrabz that he scratches until they bleeds. it affect the airways so you can get copd, asthma. all kinds of very serious and sometimes life threatening illnesses. >> woodruff: he's well into his 90's right. >> that's true. the veterans i was able to talk to for these stories are of course an exceptional group having far outlived their life expectancy and having gone through this. we can assume there are many more who aren't around to tell us their stories today. >> woodruff: professor smith why was the government doing this? what were they trying to find out? >> well, the first world war had been a chemical war and there was every expectation that this second world war would be one as well. so the allied governments, canada, the united states, great britain, australia, all prepared for a chemical war. this is also al true of the japanese and nazis.

so chemical was everyone's expectation and the scientists were involved in helping with that research. >> woodruff: but why did they choose a number of african american men japanese american men, puerto ricans and so forth? >> this is really an important question about how race matters in the world of science. the expectation was that racial differences would prove to play out not just for disease but for toxic exposures of mustard gas. so the scientists themselves had assumptions that racial groups might be variable. and the expectation was that white soldiers would have one kind of response, but african americans might be more resistent. japanese americans as well. and port puerto ricans too. that there are differences they could identify. >> woodruff: caitlin dickerson what did they find

out. >> there was reports that does sigz american scientists continued to think that african americans were more resistant. base. >> woodruff: based on what they found. >> based on what they found. we showed those results to medical experts but it's hard to say anything about the vastity of the numbers because we just weren't there and we know the standards about ex perimentations on humans were not at the level they are today. so they do suggest that at the time they thought african americans were more resistent. but right after that they sort of follow up and said that do you know what, there's a lot of variations among these groups maybe more so than between them. >> woodruff: again just to underline. these men went willingly, is that right? all of the people who participated. >> that's not necessarily the case and i'm glad you brought that up because it's important. when we look at all of the reports surrounding must turd gas it refers to volunteers. but we know even from a government study that was conducted back in the 1990's

when the first sets of experiments were exposed, we know the term volunteer isn't necessarily accurate. but in some cases men were asked to volunteer but they weren't told what they were volunteering for and they were offered incentives like a location or an award. the men that we interviewed for this story about race-base the experiments, they say they were not volunteers. the military did not ask them, they told them. >> woodruff: professor smith, are there other experiments that were done at that time that had yet to be made public? >> well certainly from the 1940's through the 1970's there were many types of scientific experiments on human beings. despite the number coming out in 1947, the role of human experimentation in medical and scientific research was very important as a tool for scientists. what is interesting here is that we know about radiation

experiments. we know about toxic exposures of agent orange later in the vietnam war. but this is the world war ii story that we don't know as much about. partly because we don't remember that it was preparation for a chemical war. >> woodruff: it's just a striking set of findings and remarkable research, professor smith and remarkable reporting. caitlin dickerson we thank you both. >> thank you very much. >> thank you so much. >> woodruff: a post scripted. the >> woodruff: the government acknowledged the experiments and the defense department told n.p.r. that it no longer tests chemical weapons on troops. a spokesman said the experiments were "unfathomable." some members of congress are calling for apologies and a settlement. >> woodruff: we have a news update late this evening.

the pentagon says an american air strike in iraq killed an islamic state operative linked to the 2012 benghazi, libya attack on a u.s. compound. ali aw'ni al-harzi was killed in an air strike conducted on june 15. he was a "person of interest" in the benghazi attack, which killed the u.s. ambassador to libya, and three other americans. >> woodruff: on the newshour online, even as more states are cutting their budgets for college aid, more of that aid is going to students from higher income families. see what's behind this shift, we have the story from our partners at the hechinger report, on our home page. that's at pbs.org/newshour. >> woodruff: and that's the newshour for tonight. on tuesday, we'll look at a different crisis in greece. how a flood of migrants have over taken an island. i'm judy woodruff >> ifill: and i'm gwen ifill, we'll see you on-line and again here tomorrow evening. for all of us here at the pbs newshour, thank you and good night. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by:

>> and by the alfred p. sloan foundation. supporting science, technology and improved economic performance and financial literacy in the 21st century. >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions and... >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

this is "nightly busine" with tyler mathison and sue herera. greece lightning, the indebted country offers a new plan to avert default, signaling a deal may be near sending stocks higher around the globe. home sweet home. existing home sales surge, some say prices will surpass the peak from the last housing boom. but is it a bubble. swift response the pop star that brought the biggest company to its knees. all that and more on "nightly for monday june 22nd. good evening, everyone. welcome, i am sue herera. my partner tyler mathison is on assignme tonight. we begin this evening with greece where a deal on that country's debt is closer than ever. at today