captioning sponsored by wnet >> sreenivasan: on this edition, for sunday august 16: spying on americans emails and phone calls: the unique partnership between the national security agency and at&t. remembering civil rights pioneer julian bond. and, from hawaii, residents invest in solar power, will the local utility keep up? next on pbs newshour weekend. >> pbs newshour weekend is made possible by: corporate funding is provided by mutual of america-- designing customized individual and group retirement products. that's why we are your retirement company. additional support is provided by:

and by the corporation for public broadcasting and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. from the tisch wnet studios in lincoln center in new york, hari sreenivasan. >> sreenivasan: good evening and thanks for joining us. for two years, secret documents leaked by former national security contractor edward snowden have yielded a steady stream of news reports about u.s. government spying-- on terrorism suspects, foreign leaders, and american citizens. now, another chapter has been revealed: how telecommunications giant at&t demonstrated a," extreme willingness to help" the n.s.a. an article jointly published b"" the new york times" and the investigative non-profit pro- publica reports at&t forwarded one million emails a day to the n.s.a., handed over one billion cell phone records a day to the

n.s.a., and assisted the n.s.a. in wiretapping internet lines at the united nations headquarters. this is according to documents provided by snowden, who remains in russia, to avoid u.s. prosecution for espionage. joining me now to discuss this is reporter jeff larson from pro-publica. a you your colleagues at pro-public works publica and the times published this. how did you prove that this existed? >> it was a long time to prove that fairview was at&t. we went through the documents with a fine tooth comb looking for things like internal acronyms that at&t used, and sec lirches. >> their view was sort of a code name that you hadn't figured out that was at&t. >> exactly. it's been out before, there's been mentions on brazilian tv on fairview. no one had put two and two

together and put it together. so starting in february we looked through the documents and tried to show this, it's an extremely close partnership. at&t engineers came in hand with the nsa to enable spying and in some cases in many cases the at&t actually does the filtering on behalf of the nsa, in their own facility. sreenivasan: so they're not actually handing all the information they're sorting it out before it goes to the nsa? >> yes, but it's a large portion. the those cell phone records are pretty bilky and they -- bulky and they include domestic ones. it turned out in 2013 that verizon was handing out them but the u.s. government said it was only land line and not cell cele records. >> how do you sort through that and where do they get access to

that? just people using at&t.com e-mail? >> it's not at&t e-mail, it is the big pipes of the internet and they also provide those big pipes to corporate partners that at&t has. so you know places like level 3, or comcast, if you have home internet, it largely will go over at&t networks at some point when it transits the united states. largely with the nsa because it's a foreign intelligence agency they are interested in fortune e-mail so a large portion of that will be people outside the united states and that's not necessarily covered by united states law. it's fair game as far as the nsa is concerned. >> when you look through these powerpoints you actually see instructions from the nsa to behave nicely when they go into at&t offices. >> right they say this is a

collaborative relationship right? that there's this extreme willingness to help on at&t's behalf right? shortly after 9/11 there were two telecoms that went to the nsa and said how can we help right? one of them we know now is at&t. so this is you know at&t sees this as sort of a patriotic duty i think. sreenivasan: what does at&t say about this? >> at&t sort of gave us a surprising response, we don't comment on national security matters right? and later when we circle back to them they said, we comply with the law essentially right? so we don't willingly do this. we only comply with the law. which is sort of at odds with what's in the documents. sreenivasan: and does that mean essentially they are being compelled? >> we don't know because the documents are so old, or i mean two years old we don't know how things have changed after congress passed the u.s.a. freedom act, we also don't

necessarily know what happened in the two intervening years. we know verizon did try and challenge some things in court but we really have no idea if the program is exactly the same as it was in 2013 before the snowden revelations. >> jeff larson from pro-publica thank you very much. >> thank you. >> sreenivasan: see key documents detailing the extent of the information sharing between at&t and the n.s.a., and read at&t's statement to the newshour. visit pbs.org/newshour. president barack obama is calling civil rights leader julian bond a hero who helped change the country for the better. bond died saturday, in florida. grandson of a slave and son of a college president, bond attended atlanta's morehouse college, where he was a student in a philosophy class taught by martin luther king, jr. in the 1960s, bond help lead the student nonviolent coordinating committee, known as snick, planning nonviolent protests throughout the segregated south. at the age of 26, bond was

elected to the georgia state legislature and served 20 years. he made a run for congress but lost an epic race to fellow civil rights activist john lewis, in 1986. bond was the first president of the southern poverty law center, which advocates for justice and equality, and later, chairman of the n.a.a.c.p., and served more than a decade in that post. two years ago, bond spoke at the 50th anniversary of the 1963 march on washington for jobs and freedom. >> we are still being tested by hardships and adversity. from the elevation of stand your ground laws to the evisceration of the voting rights act. but today we commit ourselves as we did 50 years ago to greater efforts and grander victories. >> sreenivasan: julian bond was 75. to discuss his legacy, i am joined via skype from martha's vineyard by congresswoman eleanor holmes norton, a civil rights pioneer in her own right, whose relationship with bond went back to their days at snick.

when you heard the news what went through your mind? >> well i wasn't even a little bit ready to lose my good friend and constituent. because -- because julian has lived in washington now, for more than 25 years and been a champion among other things for the district of columbia. i saw him only a few months ago when he came right after ferguson when i had a forum at howard university, to discuss racial profiling. i wanted to have julian come because i wanted to have this conversation, julian and me with the students in order to let them know we were in touch with their movement and we understood their movement at a distance, than our movement and as their movement showed that our movement needed to be updated. because for all the achievements of our movement we had not touched racial profiling. what julian managed to do was something that most of us who

were in sncc, the student nonviolent coordinating committee, did not do. he managed to spend his entire life in civil rights. not the sentimental civil rights of our sncc days but the sniffle rights of our time. and that's why he was so respected and such a sought-after speaker. sreenivasan: can you give us an idea of the contributions that he has made that most of us of this generation now might not recognize? >> well, if you think about it, from the generation of sncc people, those of us who were in the student movement, there were two or three that achieved some kinds of prominence afterwards. marion berry became the mayor of the district of columbia. john ward who still is the icon of the civil rights movement.

julian bond and i'm running out of names. the fact is not everybody survived those sncc days, it took a lot of people out of people. it almost destroyed some people. so julian was not only a survivor of sncc. he went on to grow the civil rights movement. sreenivasan: what are you going to miss most about him? >> i'm going to miss having a national spokesman, when something happened on our rights, to speak out for the country. there are really very few leaders like that who are nationally known, who are nationally prominent and who are nationally appreciated, across the generation. and somehow he managed not to stop serving until the end of his life. that is quite a life to have lived. >> congresswoman eleanor holmes norton. thanks for joining us. >> always a pleasure.

>> sreenivasan: after two decades in business, amazon.com is the world's largest internet retailer, with a stock value that has increased ten-fold since 2008. that success is driven by a workforce motivated by data- driven managers who enforce principles laid down by company founder jeff bezos. that's part of the takeaway from today's "new york times" story"" inside amazon: wrestling big ideas in a bruising workplace." based on more than 100 interviews, the story depicts a corporate culture where employees are pushed to the limit. david streitfeld is one of the authors. he joins me now from san francisco. >> what is the culture that you found? >> it is a very intense culture, a very hard-working culture, a culture where people feel they want to push themselves, as far as they can, and they do. sreenivasan: so far none of that what you just said sounds like a bad thing for a company.

>> no, it's a great thing for a company. if you have a company of type-a performers and they're always performing at the limits of what they can do, you can do amazing things. which amazon indeed has. >> what do you find unique about what's happening inside amazon's work culture? >> the unique was just how well they maintained that culture of endurance and excellence. startups do that sort of thing. they work all the time. and people are completely devoted to the company and the rest of their life falls away. the unique thing with amazon is, they had preserved to a large extent that start-up culture, to a company that was employing tens of thousands of people. and that's a remarkable thing to do, and i don't know of many other companies, if any, that have managed to do it. >> some of the anecdotes you

write about are almost in direct opposition to the other stories of tech life that's that we hear, that net flex have a year long maternity or paternity leave, and google has a great policy, and amazon is not like that. >> it's much more severe. has a lot of technology but its self image is not as a tech company, it is of a retailer. in the retail business margins are very thin and benefits are comparatively less. sreenivasan: and you describe the situation at the end of every year where they cut back their employees or their lowest performers? >> amazon uses a technique which was relatively widespread in corporate america maybe ten years ago. and some companies, other companies still use it now,

called the crudest name for it which companies do not use is rank and yank. you decide where everyone fits, and those at the bottom, those that rank the lowest, you either encourage to leave, or you could just release them. sreenivasan: what did amazon say to this as you were reporting? >> amazon has always prided itself on being a very tough place to work. they've said this from the very beginning. as jeff bezos said early on to new employees, it's not easy to work here. and without it being -- without those high standards, you probably never would have heard of amazon. it would not exist now. the question is for employees who are diverted by crises, what happens to them?

sreenivasan: david streitfeld, one of the co-authors on the new york times, thanks very much. >> thank you. >> sreenivasan: our signature segment tonight takes us to hawaii, a state that sees sunshine three out of every four days, and has used that sunshine to become one of the top ten states for developing renewable solar energy. converting that solar energy into electricity hasn't been so simple. in this updated story we first broadcast in the spring, newshour special correspondent mike taibbi reports that homeowners in honolulu and their utility company find themselves at a crossroads. >> reporter: they're everywhere on oahu: on the roofs of businesses, libraries, and one house after another. the amount of rooftop solar now accounts for 12% of the electric utility's users. that's more than 20 times the national average. it's by far the highest penetration of individual rooftop solar in the country. but in this tropical state,

where the combination of sky- high energy prices, abundant sunshine, and federal and state tax credits makes going solar a no-brainer, the very popularity of these panels has become a problem... >> so we drive up, and you have these lovely solar panels on your roof. how's that working out for you? >> it's not. >> reporter: not working out because by the time aircraft mechanic carlton ho joined the rooftop solar parade in september 2013, there were so many people in his area that had installed panels that the local utility company told him, "don't turn on that switch yet." so, it's just a question of turning the switch on and you have juice. >> yeah. >> reporter: from your own roof. >> and everything's awesome! [laughs] >> reporter: but it's not that simple. when you install solar panels, you're still reliant on the local utility. when it's dark or when the sun isn't shining, you need the grid to provide electricity. even so, solar customers have a fundamentally different relationship with the utility. because when the sun is shining,

any extra energy their panels generate is supplied back to the grid. that earns a credit, further reducing their electric bill. in some sections of oahu, with so many homeowners going solar, the utility said the safety and reliability of the grid could be threatened and it slowed to a crawl the approval of new systems. >> we know there is still more to do. >> reporter: colton ching is vice president for energy delivery at hawaiian electric company, or heco, as the utility is known. >> what was happening was that power, which normally flows from the grid to our customers, were now beginning to flow back into those substations. substations which were not 30, 40 years ago designed to operate in that manner. >> reporter: in addition, heco had a hard time measuring all that solar. >> right now, we don't know exactly how much power rooftop solar is producing, at any given moment. >> reporter: so you can't see at all what 10-12% of your customer base is producing? >> we cannot. we cannot see that. >> reporter: but while heco studied the problem, homeowners

like carlton ho were left waiting. it had been a year-and-a-half that his system had sat unused. ho was left paying his regular electric bill: about $150 a month. plus another $240 a month in payments for the $23,000 solar panels he'd bought but couldn't use. >> hawaiian electric needs to and has taken steps to work with our customers to find solutions that works for them and works for the grid. it's been learning moments, for us within the utility. >> reporter: and for the solar industry which took a big hit when the utility slowed new approvals: there were hundreds of layoffs and stockpiles of solar equipment. but those solar customers waiting to turn on their systems or even get permission to start construction knew that going solar would still be a good deal: a system up and running would reduce their energy bills dramatically. in the meantime, non-solar customers, still the majority, were paying much more to

maintain the public grid than those with their own panels on the roof, a disparity heco suggested could be unfair. >> it makes sense that everyone who uses the grid should pay their share. >> reporter: heco says that non- solar customers have in a sense been subsidizing those with rooftop solar when it comes to keeping the grid humming. a cost shift estimated at more than $50 million. all these problems-- delays, questions about grid reliability, and fairness-- could soon be seen all across the country as the penetration of rooftop solar continues to increase. solar panels are no longer just for sunbelt states, even the white house had panels installed last year. >> reporter: dr. marco mangelsdorf is a solar contractor who also teaches energy politics. >> we are on the new frontier in hawaii as far as trying to come up with a practical, safe answer to an-- a very, very difficult question which does not have a definitive answer.

>> reporter: namely, how much rooftop solar can the grid accommodate. and while delays for rooftop solar customers have angered many in hawaii, mangelsdorf argues that the caution shown by the utility is understandable. >> you cannot allow a free-for- all, anybody and everybody to connect to a utility grid without any type of requirements or monitoring. i mean the utility grid is a public good, public infrastructure that must be maintained. >> reporter: but some say delays in approving rooftop solar are less about prudence and more about profit, and about preserving the utility's century old business model as a monopoly. >> the problem is, is that they inherently don't want to see more of this rooftop solar, and yet they're also arbiters of what power can come on or what's reliable and what's safe. >> reporter: robert harris is director of public policy for sunrun, another solar contractor. >> the comparison would be, for example, the typewriter industry trying to stop computers, because they want to preserve their own business model.

and here argue that there's a better model out there that's going to be cheaper and cleaner. >> reporter: did heco fail in some fundamental way to see the future? >> i don't think we failed, i do, in hindsight, believe that we could have seen it sooner. this change in relationship, the change in the compact between the utility and its customers. >> reporter: the number of solar panel permits in hawaii is up, compared to a year ago, and heco says it hopes to triple rooftop solar capacity in 15 years. but heco may not be in a position to decide that. it is being sold to next era, a florida based utility giant. if the deal with next era does go through, hawaii's electricity consumers will be serviced by a company that says it is committed to renewable energy sources. but that commitment has come under scrutiny from hawaii's governor, energy organizations, and the state's consumer advocate. they say next era has not yet shown how it plans to fulfill

the state's initiative to move toward 100% renewable energy by the year 2045. to hit that target, state regulators have approved construction of four new utility-scale solar farms on oahu, with three more farms proposed. it says off here and on here. >> once we get this thing powered, yeah. a-year-and-a-half of frustration, we'll get over it. >> reporter: for carlton ho and his family, that day finally arrived after a year and a half of waiting, this spring, he received permission to turn that switch on and his solar system is now up and running. >> ifill: major candidates for president descended on the iowa state fair this weekend including the two polar opposites, bernie sanders and donald trump. my report, tomorrow night on the pbs newshour.

sreenivasan: finally tonight, celebrating 70 years of peace. fireworks lit the car above pearl harbor tonight, to mark the end of world war ii. sister city in japan supplied the fireworks. earlier, mayors from cities laid the wreath at the naval base. the architecture who drew the u.s. into the war was from nagaoka. that is it for this week'sing pbs news hour weekend, thanks for watching. i'm hari sreenivasan. >> pbs newshour weekend is made possible by: corporate funding is provided by mutual of america-- designing customized individual and group retirement products. that's why we are your retirement company. additional support is provided by: and by the corporation for

public broadcasting and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> announcer: explors

and new ideas through programs like this, made available for everyone through contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> season 5 of "downton abbey" left us with so many unanswered questions. will lady mary finally find true love with her new suitor? >> maybe we'll meet again. are you ever in yorkshire? >> what will become of downton after branson and sybbie leave for america? >> always remember you have a home to come back to. >> will marigold take her rightful place at the downton table? >> i can't give her up. >> of course not. >> and what will become of anna and bates? there's still a dark cloud hanging over them. >> we'll worry about everything else later. but for now, let's just have a very happy christmas.