>> rose: welcome to the program. i'm charlie rose. the program is "charlie rose: the week." just ahead, donald trump surges to the top of the republican polls. polls. bryan stevenson takes on the disturbing? oh, them, ozzie and harriet? >> rose: we will have those stories and much more on what happened and what might happen.

captioning sponsored by rose communications >> and so you began how. >> purely for the love of it. >> rose: is it luck at all or something else? >> surviving, aging. >> rose: what's the object lesson here? >> we should be more sober than we are. >> rose: tell me the significance of the moment. >> rose: this was the week positions hardened in congress on the iran nuclear deal. donald trump topped republican presidential polls. and golfer jason day took the p.g.a. championship. here are the sights and sounds of the past seven days. julian bond dies at 75. the koreas exchange artillery fire. >> the first armed clash in five years. >> thai police say the pommer who killed 20 people in bangkok did not act alone.

>> rose: greece's prime minister resigned. >> greece is already in a big mess. >> fort bening, georgia, for the first time, women will graduate from ranger school. >> rose: another fatal police shooting sets off protests. >> unrest on the streets of st. louis following the fatal police shooting of a black 18-year-old. police say he was killed when he pointed a gun at him. >> didn't quite get the glove up. >> it hit mitchell in the head. >> the startling find in a new jersey yard. >> he took my floaty! >> she stopped breathing! please help me. >> seattle police officers ended up helping with the birth of a baby after a routine traffic stop. >> come on, baby ( crying ). >> there you go, there you go. ♪ it's my party and i'll cry if i want to ♪ >> rose: jason day's record-breaking title. >> jason day, the first player in history to finish a major at 20 under par. >> how does the visualization of this moment compare with the reality? >> i didn't expect i was going to cry. ♪ now we got problems

>> he was a democratic longer in the last decade than he was a republican. >> the war of word erupting between jeb bush and donald trump. >> all of that money that's going to hillary and jeb and scott and marco, it's like puppets. ♪ have an old gold chevy and a place of my own ♪ >> police are searching for a 1971 camaro owned by papa john's stolen from a detroit-area event. >> road trip! ♪ ♪ >> rose: we begin this week with politics. donald trump is not only leading the republican field in the polls. he has his first major magazine cover of the campaign. here with me is nancy gibbs. she is the editor of "time" magazine and as all of you know, if you're a big idea or person that people are talking about, soorp or later you will appear on the cover of "time" magazine. so my first question is why this photograph? >> you know, we're so used to almost seeing the cartoon

version of his face, whether he's, you know, telling you, "you're fired "and pointing at you or frowng that i actually wanted to see him when he was not mugging, when he was not doing any kind of exaggerated expression. everything about him feels so-- so extravagant that doing something that is much more straight. so martin schuler shot the portrait. he's an extraordinary portrait photographer. he's done any number of "time" covers so i thought it would be almost a different way of seeing him when it's just a little quieter than what we're used to. >> rose: and we can see over there an eagle? >> yes, we flew an eagle in from texas for that shoot and i give him credit for being game because the eagle pretty much trashed his office and left feathers everywhere and was pretty raucous. he was a good sport about it. >> rose: why trump? why is he doing so well? >> why is everyone talking about him? >> rose: yes. >> it's extraordinary to me-- and, charlie, you have covered a great many presidential

campaigns -- we are in august, 16 months out and you have 24 million people tuning into the first presidential debate, found of people coming out to see these candidacy-- not just trump but bernie sanders, too-- but trump especially. this is the thing at this stage of the race that i am really encouraged by, that we are seeing a lel of engagement and interest and you can see it's because everyone is waiting to see what outrageous thing he is going to say or do next. in a way, i don't know whether it matters whether we should be talking about what would trump be like as president? let's think about what it is like to have a campaign like this in which people are watching so closely. and we're having arguments about things that we probably need to be talking about, and so in this case, i think so it is fascinating that we have a character who almost came out of nowhere, i mean, came out of the world of real estate and reality tv who week after week was dismissed by all of the experts, whether the republican party or in the media, as, "oh, this is going to go away." >> rose: a phenomenon. >> it's a summer storm. and everything that was supposed

to kill him, as the cliche go -- >> makes him stronger. >> seems to make him stronger. the latest republican poll even has him leading among women when his encounters with megyn kelly were supposed to have dispatched him. before that it was john mccain. before that the comments about mexican imgrant. he keeps saying things that in the age of outrage should have been fatal and they weren't. so to me anything new and different, anything that upends the conventional wisdom is itself just fascinating when it it's a person who is doing it and keeps breaking the rules and is not being punished for it, it's good we're going to have a conversation about the rules. >> rose: is it more about us than him? >> yes, at this stage, actually-- obviously, it's both but i do believe he's tapped into something that is in in a way-- about people' people's der about the political system and what can be done to make it better, less phony. the idea again that someone hois

a very successful salesman-- which by the nature requires a fairly high degree of phony-- is the one who is pulling back the curtain and tapping into that desire for authenticity. i think, you know, when he raised his hand at this first debate and said,"i'm not going to promise not to run as an independent "which was an incredibly impolitic thing to say, and you watched how he actually benefitted from that. oh, look, it's a politician saying something in politic. i think a lot of this is actually about the appetite in the american public to expose some of the phoniness and-- and somebody who when he says, "i can't be bought" is plausible when he says that, whether or not that's true, it's easier to have that coming from someone who is self-financing. i was surprised-- and shouldn't have been, i think, given his history-- but how everything was transactional. everything was a deal. and the obvious sheer pleasure

he gets in doing the deal and in getting a good deal. and no matter what we were talking about, whether it was building a wall with mexico or negotiating with china or anything political or anything about his own personal history, it always came back to getting a good deal. and it ended, talking about the next debate, whose audience is likely to be huge, and he's asking us, "well, could i-- could i tell them that the only way i'll show up for the debate is you have to give $10 million to charity because they're going to make a killing just by my being there, so we should get something for that." everything is a transaction. not necessarily smag that we're accustomed to in our politicians. >> rose: has this experience changed him in any way? my impression is when he began this he could not imagine that he would be where he is today. he may have thought he had a

chance, but today he remind us every day that he's leading in the polls. >> yes. >> rose: and he's getting stronger rather than weeker as he might not ever admit to being surprised and say, "i'm a winner. of course, i'm going to win." you can hear the trumpets blaring but i do think he's surprised. it's something of a challenge. i think he's hired and fired more senior staff in the last, you know, six weeks, and it's-- to actually mount a real campaign with all the logistics and the policy positions that that involves is going to be something of a challenge. but for now, you know, he's putting on an amazing show. >> rose: so when your repertoirial team talked to everybody, i mean, did they find a consensus that he could go all the way? was there a consensus that at some point all of this will come crashing down? >> when talk to the other republican campaigns they will say some version of, "we-- we can't do anything about this. we're just going to have to ride it out." >> rose: ride it out. >> and, of course, you've seen what happened. and he dliets pointing out what has happened to the other republican candidates who have

tried to take him on, really directly, what happened to rick perry. what happened to lindsey graham, that the harder they hit him, the faster they fall. >> rose: politicians are not the only ones divided over the iran nuclear deal. roger cohen's most recent column for the "new york times" is called "iran and american jews." >> this is the most divisive issue in the american jewish community for a long time. and you have, even within families, fiery disagreements as to whether this deal is overall good for israel, good for the united states, good for the middle east, or it's not. and on the one hand, you have apac lobbying heavily against the deal. on the other, you have the upstart j street with a much smaller budget, a more liberal organization that thinks on balance this deal is good. in diplomacy you never get

perfection. iran has mastered the nuclear fuel cycle. the question is what do you do about it? i think secretary kerry and the president have tried to come up with a deal reigns in this capacity and that in my opinion will be a good deal for israel. >> rose: why does the prime minister not see it that way and a significant parent of the israeli community, as well as the american jewish community? >> look, the islamic republic has said violent things about israel over many years. it is important to take seriously that kind of unconscionable language. on the other hand, iran, the islamic republic, has, i would argue, survived since the iranian revolution, since 1979, by showing itself in reality, despite this vile rhetoric, to be a fairly prudent power. people say iran will cheat. well, it may cheat.

who knows? but the fact is over the past two years it did not cheat. and in this agreement, charlie, there is nothing that says the united states or its allies cannot take any action that they deem appropriate, including military action, if iran reneges. >> rose: when you look at the president's argument for this, that there was no other way, other than military force, is the president right about that? is there no other way that you could have brought about an iranian rejection of weaponnized nuclear power? >> i don't think complete dismantlement, which is initially what prime minister netanyahu pushed for-- i don't think complete dismantlement was ever on the table. nuclear technology is a little like oil 60 years ago. it's something that iran feels that it has a right to develop, and, of course, it looks around,

and it sees a nuclear armed israel, it sees a nuclear armed pakistan, it sees a nuclear armed russia, a nuclear armed india. it's not in a neighborhood where everybody is without nuclear weapons. much to the contrary. >> rose: could the united states have negotiated a better deal? is there any reason, any argument that suggests, you know, that somehow we had more leverage than we exercised and we should have exercised it? do you see any merit in any of those arguments, that this administration was too quick to make a deal? >> look, in diplomacy, it's a question of what do you want, what do they want, and what can we agree that we both want? i wasn't in there, neither of us was in there sitting at the table. i think on iran's missile program, maybe we could have wished for more. but i really believe that over two years of negotiation with

very, very serious diplomats in the room, this is about-- this is a compromise that gets us a lot. >> rose: whether it is in ferguson, missouri, or baltimore, maryland, issues of race and criminal justice have dominated the room. one of the voices calling for reform is streef. he is an attorney and the founder of the equal justice initiative. his memoir, "just mercy: a story of justice and redemption," has just been released in paperback. >> there is a presumption of dangerousness and guilt that gets assigned to black and brown people, particularly black and brown boys, but black and brown people that we've never really freed ourselves from because it's been sustained and reinforced. we lynched people during the first half of the 20th century because of the presumption of dangerous and guilt. we segregated people during the

civil rights era because of the presumption of dangerous and guilt. we separated ourselves, and we still do. and now on the streets, when people see young men of color there is this presumption that they are drug drus and guilty. in the courtroom we see this all the time. i think we need truth and reconciliation in america and we've never had that. >> rose: how should we talk about it? >> i think we should reflect on the damage that was done. i hear people talk about the civil rights movement, and it was a three-day carnival. rosa parks gave up her seat on the bus, marti martin luther kid a march in washington. we had people celebrating the march from selma to montgomery, many congressional delegates who went back to d.c. and refused to vote for a reinforcement of the voting right act because they don't see the connection. the truth is, during that era we

humiliated black people on a daily basis. we told black people that they weren't smart enough to go to school, they weren't good enough to vote. we did that for decades and it left us not as morally evolved as we need to be. it made us to believeerating lynching and segregation and tolerating a criminal justice system where we now project one in three plaque male babies are going to go to jail and prison. >> rose: you are an eloquent voice for theses. consider you have done enough? >> i don't think any of us have done enough. there is tremendous suffering in this country. there has never opinion a time in america where there are more innocent people in jails and prisons as they are right now and as a lawyer trying to help -- >> where there has never been a time in which there have been more innocent people in jails than 2015? >> that's right correct. we went from 300,000 people in jails and prisons in 1972 to 2.3 million people in jails and prisons today. >> rose: there are those who will argue that it's not about

race. it's about economics. >> it is -- >> poverty, lack of opportunity. >> yeah. >> rose: it's those things. >> uh-huh. those are very powerful forces. you cannot deny that poverty is the element that agvates all of these issues. we have a criminal justice system, i make this point all the time, that treats you better if you're rich and guilty than if you're poor and innocent. wealth, not culpability, shapes outcomes. there's no question poverty is a big part of it. but we are kidding ourselveses if we think that race is not also an issue. if we think that our conscience about race is simply irrelevant in dealing with these social problems. it's not honest to say it's all about poverty and not about race. of course, it's about poverty, but it's also about race. >> rose: who pushes back against what you say? >> it's not direct. it's kind of indirect.

it's this habit of just never doing uncomfortable things that we've all inherited. you know, trying to own up to our history of slavery, that's uncomfortable. so nobody's going to take that on. nobody's going to exercise a lot of leadership for that. dealing with the fact that we have marginalized people and treated people unfairly, that's hard. so we're not going to do that. look, i represent people hospent-- i just got a man off the death row-- anthony ray hinton spent 30 years on death row for a crime he didn't commit, locked in a 5 x 7 cell. >> rose: solitary confinement. >> solitary confinement. witnessed 53 executions while he was on the row. complained about smelling flesh burning when they were electrocuting people in the electric chair. we got him released in april of 2013, and not a single person in the prosecutor's office or responsible for his wrongful conviction has said, "i'm sorry." they're just silent.

>> rose: comedian lily tomlin is having a great year. she was a kennedy center honoree. her netflix series "grace and frankie" has been renewed for a second season. and now she has the title role in "grandma," the paul weitz comedy opening this weekend. >> this movie has certainly been a satisfying experience. >> rose: because of the director? because of the cast of characters? because of-- >> because of the director to begin with. i mean-- and then the people that he was able to draw to the film, they're just wonderful, everyone. >> rose: how did you do that? lily is a magnet in part. >> yeah, lily is a magnet. what i felt was it was so important for this one to be done properly and how lucky i was to have months to work with lilo it. we sat down with the script months ahead time. >> rose: and she helped you with the script? >> oh, yeah. >> minimally. >> from analyzing -- >> she's so honest i toned believe her it was minimally. >> not from my perspective.

and other people i just had their phone number. ( laughter ) this is the tenth film i've directed. >> rose: phone numbers and a big budget. >> yeah, not such a big budget. the funny thing is i think at some point people actually have a better time doing lower budget stuff because it's more connected to who drove them to the film in the first place. so they're really excited to do something that's purely for the love of it. >> rose: let me talk a bit about "grace and frankie." whofs idea. >> that was martha's idea. she came to me and jane both and they presented the idea to us. jane and i wanted to do something about older women anyway that was-- that would be sort of meaningful. >> rose: going back to the movie? >> no, going back to the fact that we're both of a certain age. and -- >> and magnificent, as you know. everybody tells you that. >> i'm so delighted.

yeah, i'm very happy. >> rose: but you are handling it, and so is jane, and speaks about it with great candor. >> yeah. well, we wanted it to be about how dismissed women of our age are, how negligible we are. we're not sexual creatures anymore. we're not-- we're not viable in the workforce. we're not. >> rose: except the two of you have such talent that you are viable in the workforce. >> yeah, but we're not supposed to be hourses. >> rose: in other words, if you're 70-plus-- >> even us, jane and i, prior to this project of "grace and frankie" and by the way, jane loves "grandma," too. we went to sundance and saw it together. >> rose: are you great friends you and jane? >> yeah, i think so. i think if nothing else in terms of the years. the years have bound us as really, good, close friends. and by the nature of our natures. >> rose: have you done everything you wanted to do?

you have made the films you wanted to make? you've done drama. you've done comedy. you've done one-woman performances. you've done television. >> i guess what i would like is, i would like not to have been given so much credit for jane's work, jane wagner. >> rose: but you would like for her to have gotten as much credit as she deserves -- >> exactly, right. >> rose: well, you can do something about that. >> i've tried. i mean, we've tried, really. it's ingrained in people that they see me. they want to believe that the words come out of my mouth and my brain immediately. they think i make it up as i do it sometimes. ( laughter ) which is hardly true. >> rose: here is a look at the week ahead. sunday is the day the obama family returns from vacation. monday is independence day in ukraine. tuesday is the 99th anniversary of the national parking service. wednesday is the day the u.s.

tennis open play in round for the mixed doubles. thursday is the first day of the annual state fairs in alaska, minnesota, and new york. fridays is the day the b.m.i. r&b hip-hop awards are presented in beverly hills. saturday is senger shania twain's 50th birthday. and here is what's new for your weekend: lily tomlin, julie garner, marcia gay harden, and judy greer star in the new indy comedy, "grandma." >> what is your involvement? >> i am her grandmother and i'm your mother. >> yes, but what are you doing here? >> i'm going to be there because this is my granddaughter. >> rose: bon jovi has a new album out, "burning bridges." ♪ you know it's true >> rose: and meghan trainor has tour dates in louisville,

kentucky and des moines, iowa. ♪ ♪ i know you lie, your lips are moving ♪ >> rose: before we leave you tonight, this story. former president jimmy carter held a remarkable press conference on thursday. it was his first since his cancer revelation. in it he revealed that doctors had now found cancer in his brain and would begin treatments immediately. he has been a frequent guest on this program, and we wish him well. that's "charlie rose: the week" for this week. we'll see you next time. >> i've had a wonderful life. i've had thousands of friends, and i've had an exciting and adventurous, gratifying existence. so i was surprisingly at ease, much more so than my wife was. but now i feel-- you know, i'll

be prepare for anything that comes. i never have doubted that i would carry out the recommendations of the emery doctors, so when they said that they wanted to go ahead and find out other places that might show cancer and treat them, i'm perfectly at ease with that. and i'm perfectly at ease with whatever comes. i do have deep religious faith, which i'm very grateful for, and i was pleasantly surprised that i didn't go into an attitude of despair or anger or anything like that. i was just completely at ease, as rosalyn would testify. but i've just been very grateful for that part of it. i'm ready for anything. and looking forward to a new adventure.

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>> rose: welcome to the program. we begin this evening with donald trump. again, there is a provocative new piece about him and his supporters in the "new yorker" magazine. we talked to evan osnos, the reporter who are spent four months writing this piece. >> how did the donald trump phenomenon happen? and we spent time -- i went to half a dozen states either chasing the trump campaign or staying behind with his fans, seeking them out and having longer conversations than we usually get a chance to have on a typical campaign trail experience, saying what is really driving this fee mom non? >> rose: also cbs news colleague and foreign correspondent clarissa ward on