>> rose: welcome to the program. it is the end of summer and we're looking back at some of the best moments on this program. tonight, an encore presentation of my conversations with dancer misty copeland and musicians diplo and skrillex. >> i was the only black woman in a company of 80 dancers for a decade. i had to learn different ways of getting my voice heard, of -- i think i just had to take a different route. i couldn't just sit back and rely on my talent to get me there. i had to understand how to communicate with my artistic director, to say what i wanted, to express how much i valued my career and respected what i did, and i think that goes a long way when you're looking at how i've approached everything else in my

career. >> you have to be able to have one foot in the music, also in the creation of the media around the music and the way your show's put together. i'm not a musician, per se, but i've always been obsessed with music and i create music now and i've learned how to play music on my own, and i think it's bigger than just getting a guitar and putting something together. you have to create an atmosphere and something electronic, the music we make is more complex. >> rose: music and dance, next. >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> rose: additional funding provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose.

misty copeland is here. last month, she became the first african-american woman to be named a principal dancer in american ballet theater's 75-year history. the news came just a few days after her new york debut in swan lake. she began her ballet training at the unusually late age of 136789 in the two decades since, she overcame numerous obstacles to achieve the highest honors in dance and become a rare pop culture celebrity. here's a look at her recent profile on cbs 60 minutes. >> misty copeland will tell you she's never more alive than when on stage on her toes, her athleticism and grace on full display. she can leap through the air, she can spin on a dime. she can make you believe she's the swan.

you feel comfortable up there. >> yes, something happens when you feel that energy and excitement from the audience and you do four piro ets, you jump higher than you ever have and it's really this magical thing that happens in those moments. >> rose: i am pleased to have misty copeland at this table for the first time, welcome. >> thank you, nice to see you. >> rose: are you better because you took the arduous journey you took to be where you are? >> it's hard to say. i think because of all the obstacles and the way i grew up and all my life experiences, i think it's made me fight harder, it's pushed me to be better and not take things for granted. so maybe it has. >> rose: as lesson in will.

yes. >> rose: it's a lesson in support. it's a lesson in belief. what else made it happen? >> talent. >> rose: yes, talent. it's so rare to make it. >> rose: but was it talent you developed or began with? >> i think a combination. >> rose: always. always. i don't think that i could have made it with four years of training into american ballet theater, one of the top companies in the world. that's very unusual and that's because i had a lot of natural ability and talent. >> rose: and for a dancer, what does that mean? >> for a dancer, you spend all of those years of training as a child because it has to become so ingrained in your muscle memory and you have to mold your body to do these things because it has to be second nature when you're on stage and become an artist. i only had four years to do it. a lot of it was naturally there, the line of my muscles and the

flexibility i had naturally and even my musicality and my ability to pick up movement. >> rose: was it more likely you could do it with the body that you had than otherwise? >> yes. >> rose: somebody else might have wand and had but it wouldn't work because of something physically, the same way the great tennis star once said to me, there is something about the way my shoulder works that enables me to serve the way i do. >> absolutely, i think that is something that helped me get there quickly because my body was capable of supporting itself because of my muscle development i had naturally, because to have the flexibility i had, but it was also a mind connection to my body that you can have the ideal ballet body, but it doesn't mean you will have an understanding and be able to go on stage and perform. there are so many elements that come into play at this level. >> rose: i was going to ask you, as you were talking, what's the difference in skill and

artistry? >> artistry is something you have to have an innate ability to come alive on stage, and not every dancer has that, and then the ability to understand how to become a character and how to portray a character and for it to be able to read at the top tier at the metropolitan opera house. then there's the technique you learn from having good training, from understanding how it works, working clean and strong and being consistent. there are just so many elements. >> rose: i'm struck by, too, because it is -- it is, in many ways, about fundamentals. you talk about the audience, you talk about the art, you talk about the skill, you talk about the body, you talk about, you know, the will power and all the best instruction you could possibly get and teaching, a combination of all those kinds of things burk, but you almost e to approach it as a craft.

>> absolutely. >> rose: i've got to do this, this, this -- you know -- >> yes. i think we're so similar, we are athletes and we're so similar to athletes that compete and perform at the highest level, but, at the same time, our ability to become artists really separates us from that, the sensitivity that you have to have in becoming these characters on stage again. it's very detail-oriented, but you also have to allow yourself to be in the moment and take in whatever it is you're getting from the audience. >> rose: athletes compete with other people. who are you competing with? >> definitely with yourself. i think that every time, for me, when i step on to the stage, it's live. you have to be so focused in that moment, and it doesn't matter how many performances you

do in a two-month season, every single time you get on stage, it has to be like it's the first time because there are people in that audience who have never seen you before. >> rose: have you ever had the thought that if i didn't have to struggle so much, if it had been easier, if there weren't so many obstacles, i would have been better sooner? >> no. i think had i started sooner, i would have been better sooner. i think what really helped me from my background was my ability to use all of those experiences to become an artist. i think that having life experiences allowed me to have a better understanding of what it is to be a person at a young age. i think even a lot of athletes, a lot of dancers, you're in this very kind of secluded atmosphere, and you spend so much time in the studio that you don't really have the experiences that a lot of people

hav, you know -- dating and going to parties -- you're in the studio and then, all of a sudden you get into a professional company, and it's, like, here you go, you've become an adult and you've become an artist. >> rose: do you think you missed anything with that or has it been such a love affair that it doesn't matter? >> i don't regret one thing. >> rose: you don't regret one single minute in the studio? >> not at all. i don't think i could have become the woman that i am today without ballet and without all the experiences i've had because of this year. >> rose: the woman i am meaning the person you are, the values you have? >> the person i am, everything. to be as empathetic as i am, as sympathetic, to be as strong, to be as intelligent, to be as open and loving and caring, i don't think i could have become all of those things without classical ballet. >> rose: people also think you're savvy. does that fit comfortably on your shoulder? >> sure. >> rose: they think you're savvy because you understand the

world -- you understand the ballet world, the social media world, you understand the environment you live in, and you understand how to master it. >> mm-hmm. i think that's something that i developed because of my experiences of being alone in a ballet company, meaning i was the only black woman in a company of 80 dancers for a decade. i had to learn different ways of getting my voice heard, of -- i think i just had to take a different route. i couldn't just sit back and rely on my talent to get me there. i had to understand how to communicate with my artistic director, to say what i wanted, to express how much i valued my career and respected what i did, and i think that goes a long way when you're looking at how i've approached everything else in my career, and i think that's hard for a lot of dancers to do. we just don't ever develop those

skills when you're. when you're in a ballet company, everything is taken care of you. we're almost treated as students our entire career, south not an environment that really nurtures that type of -- >> rose: it's not a normal existence. >> no. >> rose: and you have to make sure that that aspect of your own humanity has a chance to grow. >> right. it just doesn't happen for a lot of people, and i felt, if i was going to succeed in the ballet world and in american ballet theater, i had to make a lot of these things happen for me. >> rose: you're now the principal dancer at the american ballet theater, as good as it gets, i mean, i assume. have you just begun to develop all that you can be as a dancer? >> absolutely. i think maybe it was last season that i really started to feel like i had a hold on what it was i was really doing.

again, so much came really naturally for me, but there are no short cuts in ballet. so as much as everything was sort of easy for me to do in terms of movement, there are a lot of holes, i think, in my training and in my understanding of what it was to really be a ballerina, and i feel like i'm just now kind of honing that, and it's exciting i have so much ahead of me. i have opportunities to do these roles that i am just now starting to do for, i don't know, five to ten more years. >> rose: who's had the most influence on you? >> raven wilkinson, i would say, african-american former ballerina, the monte carlo. she has just taught me what it is to have just pure heart and love for what she did for her ballet career, for ballet, for dance. she comes to all my

performances, and i've never once heard her complain about her career and the things that she didn't get to do because she was a black woman, but what she learned from it. her being in my life, she said to me when i was promoted, that she didn't think she would ever see that in her lifetime. >> rose: she didn't think she would see that in her lifetime. >> no. >> rose: a black woman... mm-hmm. so it means so much we're sharing in this together. >> rose: you would think, not just because we've made enormous strides and we have a long way to go, we see that every day in our society, but art is supposed to be a place that recognizes talent. >> right. >> rose: that's what art is about. >> right. >> rose: not color, not anything else. >> yeah. >> rose: how good are you? am i right?

>> yeah. >> rose: or am i one more naive -- >> you know, i think that you have to be extremely gifted to get into an elite international ballet company. >> rose: because that's a perception. >> yes. but once you get there, it doesn't matter how gifted you are, it's what you do with the opportunities that you have. it's just been a tough path because i was the only one, and there's never been an african-american woman to make it to this level at american ballet theater. >> rose: so, therefore, you feel what responsibility? >> you know, i feel like i've given myself this responsibility, and that is to be the voice of so many african-american dancers that didn't get the opportunities that i have, that didn't have a voice, to try and educate a prodder audience on what the classical ballet world is and all those african-american women that came before me and helped

create this path for me. >> rose: i can imagine it is a bit like for young african-american girls like it was for -- i mean, so many -- i saw so many tears in 2008 on the part of african-american men and women of age because they never thought they would see it. >> absolutely. >> rose: they saw a man at congress putting his hand on the bible as the next president of the united states. they never thought they'd see it. >> mm-hmm. >> rose: that's the way it is for you. they're going to see you dance across the stage and say, if misty can do it, i can do it. >> that's what i hope, and that's why i have been so outspoken, and i wanted to be that person for those people,

and i didn't want it to be about me. i wanted it to be about what i respect and what the future of ballet could hold for so many. ♪ >> it's like this contrast of being extremely wild and animalistic but at the same time having to have a sense of control. yvonne is there to capture me and entertain me.

♪ >> there's something about her, i've never seen anything like it before, and all i want to do is touch her. every time i try to do that, she tries to shy away. that's when you see those moments. >> the great thing about the choreography is it's a struggle. the choreography is a struggle and the story is a struggle. so it's, like, it has to be there, so you rehearse it till it's second nature. that's what we do as dancers. >> rose: that's by a document riby rick burns and it's firebird. what did you say at the end, do you remember? >> that what we strive for in the studio and work so hard for is to make it look effortless

and easy and something that was being created with the story firebird is that it should look like a struggle. so it was the challenge of not over rehearsing so that it became too effortless. >> rose: what's the visualization for you as a dancer? >> you mean -- >> rose: yeah, what are you thinking in your head as you execute the moves? are you seeing -- i mean, i can relate this to sports only. if you are shooting a basket -- >> right. >> rose: -- your friends can literally see it before it leaves its hands, can see it swishing through the net. >> it's similar but it doesn't happen in those moments. that's something that we almost do in preparation, to be able to prepare, you want to visualize what it is you want it to be. but in those moments, and the reason we rehearse over and over and over again is when you're in

those moments, you're not thinking about the steps. you are so -- you are that character, and you're living as that character. >> rose: in swan lake, do you think of yourself as a swan? >> yes, you have to. >> rose: the movements of the swan? >> you have to. for me, it's number one, being an artist and being those characters on stage. it's so much more to me than executing these steps. that's what makes people feel. that's what art is about. >> rose: it's art. yeah. it's not coming to see if someone's going to execute these steps that i'm sure thousands, millions of people could do -- >> rose: it's what they do that speaks to your heart. >> right. >> rose: and elevates your emotions. >> yes. >> rose: does body shape make a difference?

>> it's definitely one of the requirements when it comes to this art form that you're supposed to look a certain way, and i think skin color goes along with that, but my belief is that, and with my own experience, i had the ideal body when i started ballet but then i went through puberty and my body completely changed and i wasn't seen as the ideal ballerina anymore, but i think we have the ability to eat in a certain way and do cross training, and with all that we know about how to take care of our bodies these days, that you can get it to be the shape that you want it to be, and i think that's something that i've done with my body. >> rose: do you know anybody, anybody that you believe has more will power than you? >> i don't know (laughter) >> rose: you can't imagine. you can't imagine anybody who's willing to work harder to mold her body, to practice more, to

be the best? >> you know, i think that dancers are rare people, and what we sacrifice and commit to do what we do with our bodies, we give our lives to be a part of this. there are no days that you can take off. what i have to say about my personally is that, beyond my career at american ballet theater and i think what makes me even more of a harder worker is what i'm doing outside of my career at a.b.t., and it doesn't mean i'm taking off time to do these things, like help create a diversity initiative, to be a part of the boys and girls club and be an ambassador and speak to children and write a memoir because i know what my story can do for people, that's all overtime. that's because i'm passionate about changing the world of

ballet. >> rose: changing ballet. yes. >> rose: so that it's open to more one african-american girls or -- >> minority dancers in general. >> rose: minorities in general. >> yes, and i think just educating the broader world on what classical ballet is, the beauty in it, what it can do for so many. i think just in america people just don't know about it. that's why for so many years they used to say the art form is dying. >> rose: i assume you're enormously popular because of the commercials for under armour. hugely popular. you probably reach a lot more people than the rest of your dancing life, probably. does it give you power? does it give you, misty copeland, you're more than a principal dancer, your name,

your image, that po power? >> i think the power it gives me is for people to see and hear me. >> rose: and going to see you and hear you. >> right. i've wanted my voice to be heard for so long, and this is a platform, those opportunities to be seen, that's a platform for people to know what it is i'm saying and hear it. >> rose: and what you have been through. >> and what i have been through. >> rose: i mean, you've said almost with your voice cracking, i want them to know -- you know, right? >> yeah, you know, i think that -- >> rose: i want them to know what i have been through. i want them to know what i can represent. >> yes. i think it's so important for people to understand that racism still exists and it exists in the ballet world, and it's very

difficult and it's as simple as looking at these top ballet companies and how rare it is to see minority dancers. i think that a.b.t., at this point, is really setting the new standard, not just with me but with the promotion of another filipino woman, stella obrerra promoted the same day as me. she was the first philippine to woman to ever be a principal dancer and i think a.b.t. is really standing up and saying this is the direction classical ballet should be going. >> rose: knowing how you feel so strongly, deeply, passionately and eloquently about this, does anybody just say, just dance? >> yes, absolutely. you know, and i have my days where it's, like, i don't want to talk. i was trained to be a dancer, and i never liked talking, which is probably why i was drawn to dance. but i think that part of my purpose is not just to be a

ballet dancer but it's to speak about these issues in the classical ballet world, and not everyone is going to agree with me, not everyone is going to understand it, and it's not for everyone, but for those that are -- it's reaching and that its affecting and that it's maybe changing their lives, those are the people that it's for. >> rose: take a look at. this this is again from rick burns great documentary, "american ballet theater history," here is misty copeland. >> wow... ♪ it's amazing to be involved and celebrating the history of this company. i came to a.b.t. for the first time when i was 16. i was training with the company when i was about 19. it's been my dream from the time i knew what ballet was to be a part of this company.

because i knew the difference and the fact that we have theater sets us apart from so many other classical companies. a.b.t. is all of these things and always has been. i think the roles we're given are so diverse. i think to be a black woman and to be a part of it is even more special, and the fact that this is a company that has had african-american women be on the court of ballet kind of definitely sets the road for me and made it seem more tangible, and i'm just so proud to be a part of this company's history, because it's american and represents what america is. >> rose: wow. does part of you think you can fly? >> i think you have to believe that you have to have an imagination. you have to believe all those

things when you're on the stage and performing. >> rose: back to the question of the pioneer that you are, do you think -- and i'm asking this almost naively but i'm generally asking this, when people see you dancing with all the extraordinary gifts you have, do you think they see a black woman or simply see a brilliant ballerina? >> i would like to think that they see me as a ballerina, as a dancer, but my experiences and the reality of this world is that there are some people that sea me as a black woman up there or that have thought or think i don't fit in. but i try and be the best dancer and best artist that i can be because, when it comes down to it, that's what i'm working so hard for day in and day out. >> rose: to be the best dancer? >> yes. >> rose: take a look at this. this is the under armour commercial which has been viewed

more than 8 million times. here it is. >> dear candidate -- thank you for your application to our ballet academy. unfortunately, you have not been accepted. you don't have the right feet, ac killlies tendon, turnout, torso length and bust. you have the wrong body for ballet, and at 13, you are too old to be considered. ♪

>> rose: misty, thank you, pleasure to have you. congratulations on all you have done. >> thank you very much. >> rose: we'll be right back. stay with us. >> rose: wesley "diplo" pentz and sonny "skrillex" moore are here. the "new york times" called them purvey yore's of an american strain of electronic dance music. here's a look at their single "take you there" from their new album. ♪

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> rose: i am pleased to have diplo and skrillex at this table for the first time. welcome. here's why i'm happy about this is because i didn't know that much about either of you. the more i read and learned the more excited i was to have you here. let me just begin with this. do you think of yourself as musicians or something else? >> i think it's a combination of being musicians. i came from singing and dance and playing guitar and piano and other instruments, but it's a combination of being an artist and someone who creates things and brings people together and produces it. >> you have to be able to have one foot and create the music

and the media around the music and the way your show's put together. i'm not a musician but i create music now and i've learned to play music on my own. i think it's bigger than just getting a by tar and playing something together. you have to create an atmosphere. when you create something electronic, it's more electronics than just laying down some chords. >> rose: absolutely is. what made it so popular. it's huge, $6.9 billion a year. >> yeah. i think it was timing, the internet, being able to share media, happened at the same time when computers and music programs are accessible, people are younger coming into music. me coming through a band, i found myself easier to express myself through a computer. it's a one-shop-stop. you can express your is. music videos are made by us and pictures. >> the distribution chain is

broken. used to be you had to get your band together, find friends that like to make music, write songs together, rehearse for weeks and weeks, get a recorder, shop your demo to a label, find a label, do another year to create a record that they want to promote, it's, like, a two-year process. now it's do it yourself. i literally can go to my laptop, make a song, put it on youtube or sound cloud and reach you in a couple of hours and can be cat pulled to the radio. the labels still create bands and records, but we're in a different world and are very grassroots. we make it ourselves and are distributing ourselves. >> it has become digitized with computers and cell phones. people that edit on instagram, it gives normal people an outlet to be creative and that can go deeper into music and editing

and people who are making art in general. >> rose: but it also has huge energy. >> yeah. , i think it comes from being such a youthful movement. you know, like every year goes by, the producers that are getting -- not even getting signed but becoming popular and are making a living are becoming younger and younger. >> as producers, like i say, we don't have bands. our job is inside the computer, inside the speakers to make the loudest and craziest, the next, the biggest, something you haven't heard before. it's, like, our goal to always be progressive and make something brand-new and fresh. >> and also bring people together, too. you know, especially with what we do with jackie, it's taking things and making them make sense, whether getting justin bieber on the record and dance music you traditionally wouldn't have, things like that.

>> rose: let's talk about forming jack hugh. whose idea? >> we moved to l.a. five or six years ago and he was just starting out as well and we became good friends. we've always been outsiders in the dance world and the producer world that we decided to create stuff together, and it was real special because we have a real strong quality control. it's not good enough until it's good enough for both of us, and that takes a lot of work. >> rose: is it a long time or does it happen over -- >> the record you played the video of, we recorded that record in three hours one night in a hotel room with a girl who is a great singer and took us another month after the two hours of recording vocal to make the song sound like it did. but a song with a major label, it might take it a year even though it takes a night to write the record. >> rose: but it takes two

people who are extraordinarily good to come together. >> right. >> rose: often what happens is two people who are really good come together and split. and you guys came together as competitors, almost. >> when you have two people, we respect each other that we have quality control. >> rose: do you complement each other. >> in what way? like hey you're good, you look nice today, or with sound. >> rose: with sound. yeah, i think individual projects, they're so forward thinking, that what we both try to do is push ten lope of sound. with jack you it takes it to a different level. >> electronic music is collaborative. i'm mixing my music with things you wouldn't expect like a rapper, rock singer, country artist, pop. but me and him are always working with different people, different voices. he's saying on our new album, we're always looking to

collaborate and make things you haven't heard before, things that are unexpected. sometimes a justin bieber record -- >> rose: how did that collaboration take place? >> we met him at a club and we said we have a project, we'll make it crazy. so give us the record. we spent about two months at his house, headphones on a table like this playing around with it, until we had ideas and we just had a spark and took it to the finish line. >> yeah. >> rose: roll tape. take a look. here it is. (singing) ♪ ♪

>> it was cool because we just shot justin bieber dancing and performing this a very simple background, but then took all of the stills from the video and opened an art gallery in l.a. and invited fans, haters and artists to draw whatever they wanted on justin bieber. if you go on youtube and hit the stills, you can see a lot of stuff, everything from compliments to false god, illuminati, anything anyone wanted to say.

>> political messages. yeah. we had the idea to create something -- because our album is so collaborative that we wanted a video in a way that we used justin bieber's voice into something that personified what it is to be like justin bieber as a piece of art himself. doing graffiti on him that might portray him or us. >> rose: you two are what, 300 shows a year? >> about that. this weekend, me and him both collectively probably did 15 shows between thursday and sunday. >> rose: all in new york. i did four in new york. no, i did three in new york, three in philly. he did las vegas, new york, philly, vancouver, somewhere else. >> rose: sometimes the audiences are as big as 100,000 people? >> yeah. >> rose: 100,000. we've played for 100,000 people a couple of times. quebec city, we played once for 100,000 people. at heartfest i think we played

for about 60,000 people on stage in l.a. >> rose: how is what you're doing changing other than the size of it? i think the driving force behind change. >> when we first started, like he was saying, like, there was kind of a deejay scene. i didn't come in as a deejay. we were outsiders and weren't trying to go with how things were going. in the beginning no one considered us as musicians. we've just gained more respect and rapport from artists and easier to collaborate. a lot of people, even four or five years ago when we first started breaking into the scene, a lot of credible musicians considered us musicians but the media and the outside world didn't. people trust us more. we never set out to make radio records but we're starting to cross over. >> we never aimed for radio. a lot of producers in the places

where we are is just to get on the radio. we're making music for our fans. we think about how the kids who come to our shows will like this. we never think about is radio going to plug this. >> rose: how do you measure success? just in your head or some other way? >> for me, it's personal. i just want to make great music. i don't care. i want music to give me goosebumps when i listen to the record i made. >> rose: does it happen often? it happened with the bieber record. when we finished this we were, like, whoa, this is really special. >> it's like when you make a record and play it the first time for an audience and you connect, it's a special feeling. deejaying, we are creating a sound track to an amazing live experience for people and even at these festivals that are mixed, we play a lot of festivals that are rock bands, rap artists, whatever it is,

and, you know, what we do is so maximal, so that's that peak moment where, you know, it's all about the live energy of everyone together, you know, and that's what we're curating at that moment. so that's more important than something on the radio. if i hear a song on the radio but doesn't connect live, i'd rather have it connect live. that's where it comes from the beginning. >beginning. the taste of america has changed. you used to put records ton radio. i have a record of major laser also on the the radio that's been released independently, we have no help from any major labels, so it's possible to put a great song on the radio with the right team. >> rose: take me through the process of creating something. >> i'll give you an example. we are recently on tour together in canada. we went to montreal and had a day off with r.k. fire. >> rose: sure. a friend of mine was there

and we said let's meet up. we went to his garage and literally played for 20 minutes, just everybody on an instrument. i got the files from them and edited down the loops in little pieces, and i'll probably go back to montreal sunday and maybe record vocals on it. i texted him and said, are you in town. >> we'll start with three chords and a vocal. "take you there," we recorded his song, the vocal and melody, then it took a month to figure out the process. >> rose: for sonny, there's no precedent to what he could do. >> sonny is great in the deejay world because his mixes are above what i've heard on the radio. he has a high standard to make

the sound. he can handle stuff on stage. a lot of deejays are pretty boring. you need to have that rock star -- >> rose: is that natural or does that come from being a musician on stage. you understand movement, presence, how to relate to an audience? >> i guess relating to an audience is not about relating to an audience or trying to relate to an audience, it's about being true to yourself in the moment and not thinking. >> it's like you're socially stronger in a big audience than one on one to people? >> yeah. at least, like, 30 people, like i'm deejaying in front of -- like the more people that's easier -- >> he's better when 30 people are watching him on a laptop than by himself, the ideas don't flow as much. >> rose: you're better with people around. >> yeah. >> rose: and with more people, the better you are. >> yeah, especially when the energy is awesome. when you're playing the show, the energy you get from the stage is undescribable and it's like this constant feedback, you know, like a cycle.

and when you have good energy and people are having fun feeling the music, it inspires you to continue to go down the right path. people stop moving when you're not making the right sounds. >> rose: what was it like taking over the garden, madison square garden? >> it was like a big bucket list. >> check that thing. >> rose: what else is on the bucket list? >> do charlie rose show, of course. >> rose: what about musically? musically, you know what -- it's strange people are paying attention to in project. we went to the radio today and people are expecting another one from us. we have a strange leverage over artistest to give us some of the best records they've done and they respect us. for five years, we've struggled for people to respect what we do. >> rose: when you say levering, what are you saying? >> when you're working with the artist it's always a sense of negotiating.

with madonna or pop star you find what the comfort level is and how far you can take them in one direction or the other. a lot of times a big star will take up most the space and you only have a little say in the work. but with this bieber record, we did 95% of it the direction it went. a lot of people were, like, wow. >> rose: having bieber trusting you. >> yeah. once the artist gives us the trust and we take the record to another level, it gives people confidence in us to do it again. >> i think a lot of times people do music for a long time, they have families and kids and all this, but we're just so inspired and hungry to make great songs and great ta tracks that sound e nothing else and push the boundaries. even the justin bieber single isn't a pop format the way it's written, and it's sort of changing, instead of verse

chorus, bridge, outtrailer, we're changing to sort of pop format. >> rose: you also have a reputation of being able to spot trends. what does that mean? >> that means you know,, i think we're both kids inside. i'm in my late 20s. how old are you? >> my mid 30s. yeah, we're like kids. we listen to music all the time just like kids do and we're just into that and, you know, i think it's weird because i talk to a lot of people that are a couple of years young than me, and they're talking about, i'm old, i'm getting old. the minute you start saying that, you become old. >> we have been living on the road about a decade, both of us. because this is the way we have been touring and i have been moving all the over the place to -- it's inspiring to me. but i think that, when i say we spot trends, we're part -- it's strange we're on the show and on your radio, because two nights

ago we're still hanging out with kids who make music like we make. it's underground stuff. >> rose: how old are they? between 20 and 30 still. young kids even, like, in hip-hop are, you know, just like music you can't really put, like, a genre on will make it in our rooms with our friends. you know, nothing's fancy, we don't need all these, like, suit people around, like, checking up on us. we, like, make it in our own environment and make it in our own good time, you know. >> rose: talking about molly and ecstasy. molly's assent to the main stream has correlated with the music to the top to have the dance music charts. >> yeah, i think every generation with music -- >> rose: you're responsible for the assent of molly? >> well, no, i'm not because i

make music and don't sell drugs. you know, i don't condone drugs and i don't use drugs. i do it for music. but the thing is, if you look at the the patterns of any era that had music that exploded in youth culture, just because to have the ratio of how big it is, that creates a bigger ratio of drugs that are used. drugs have always been used from the disco era, like cocaine and, like, you know, obviously, you know, l.s.d. and, like, you know marijuana, there is always been drugs and this year happened to be molly. you know, that just happened. i mean, before skrillex, ecstasy has been in the underground club scene from the beginning. it got bigger and inevitably that culture came along with it.

but the sort of events we play and audiences are so much more vast than what this article talked about. >> rose: so where do you think you and the music will be in five years? >> everything we're doing is growing. i think that we're both real humble. we feel lucky to be doing this. i never had a job i was able to keep so i started making music. i'm just happy people are paying attention. i want to make as much as i can. >> rose: of all the good things they say, what do you appreciate most? >> about what? >> rose: about the music, the fame, the attention. >> you know, at the end of the day, you know, there are so many shows and when you talk about something like drug use and the negative side of things, it's still the minority. the fact is, like, we are -- i believe we are truly, you know, artistest and artists in our peer groups are a renaissance of how to create art in music through technology and what's happening right now and that's awesome and that can lead to

anything. that can lead to anything. >> it can change the way people think about music. a lot of young kids, there used to be barriers in genre about where the limits are. if we can change ideas of the limits of music and change people's ideas of music, that would really be important. >> and to make music. we're enable ago lot of obviously, since jordan -- >> rose: when was that. '70s. yeah, and french music from the 60s. but electronic music got us doing only electronic music and it evolved into hip-hop, disco, pop, new wave, industrial music all the way up to us and we're like a culmination of everything

that happened before us. we're just like another filter that comes out. >out. when you think about the internet, the internet is not just audio. it's audio and it's interactive. what's the future of music going to be in that format that isn't just about the actual sound itself anymore? it is about the sound, the visual and perhaps maybe even the interactive part. >> rose: you agree with him? yes, for sure. i think inevitably it's all coming together. >> for us the one thing i think me and him would help us to be successful this year is a lot of artists, other guys older that battle streaming services that battle distribution systems, we embrace it 100%. we would rather people listen to our music than to make every cent we can make off it. eth more important to have get our music heard than grab every

penny you can get. >> it's like what a market is. you have different aisles. you have the girl section, the socks section. maybe some person is going to buy socks. if you're going to take your music away from an area, there is a whole demographic of people who only go to that aisle. there are a whole demographic of people that only buy c.d.s. but this is my philosophy, i'm not telling anybody else to do it that way, but people go and subscribe and that's how they get their music and that's a whole group. if you take it away, you're alienating a whole group of people who see your music. they won't change and buy a c.d. because you took your self off spotfy. >> technology has always benefited the audience not the artist. >> rose: is that true today? yes, when i had a cassette

tape, i was recording stuff off the radio. it's always been easier for the audience. the more you fight it, the more you waste your time because audience will find it zero and d easier ways to get it. >> rose: the easier you can make it for the audience the better. >> that's what we're doing here today, we've always road that wave, you know, and if we had fought it, we would be still in our studio complaining. >> the one thing i am kind of bummed about is recently all the major labels redistribute to majors, because, you know, they all, you know, took -- made it so all the full songs on the sound byte would be taken down and limited to clips and shorter previews. those kids on sound cloud -- you know, we're some of the biggest people on sound cloud with the most followers, and that's the huge asset to the overall business of how people listen to

music and there are kids that only go to sound club that will never buy music and only go to spotfy and listen to music and it limits the big asset to cutting off music to an audience that will potentially come to your shows and be fans. so there's definitely a lot of controversy in all these things, but i almost wish it was just up to the person that owns the art at the end of the day, the way they want it to be heard. >> rose: are you happiest in front of a large crowd and you're at one with them and the music? >> both large and small, we're happiest connecting with people. you know, you make a song and it gives you the chills and you feel it and you get to experience it being heard in a different way in front of people and see how it creates an energy in the room is a special feeling i think just for audience almost as much as for us. >> i'm just lucky to make a living creating. i'm just happy to do that and share with people. i feel like, you know, my family

never could believe i would be able to make a living off creating something. >> rose: my father wouldn't believe i could make a living sitting at a table talking either. not a bad living, is it? >> no. >> rose: thank you. thank you. >> rose: great to have you. pleasure. , appreciate it. >> rose: pleasure. thank you for joining us. see you next time. >> rose: for more about this program and earlier episodes, visit us online at pbs.org and charlierose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

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