>> rose: we can tom the program. it is the end of summary and we are looking back at some of the best moments on tonight, "z for zachariah," chiwetel all, i've always been interested in two-handed and rare but very interesting. it's always intrigued me to separate absolutely everything else out of the way and see how the interpersonal dramatic relationships with a small number of people can create all the tensions. >> rose: encore presentation of my conversations with al pacino and helen earhart. >> it's a form of speaking, acting. when i first started, i think what kept me an actor was when i realized i could speak through this venue and that i could

speak about things in life that i couldn't speak about before. i just didn't know how. i couldn't find the words. but the playwright allowed me to express something. >> maybe in the film, it's a different animal. on stage, i go backwards and forwards in age and that's a difficult challenge, but the essence of the queen may be harder on film. you've got to have that kind of working. >> rose: chiwetel ejofor, al pacino and helen earhart helen . >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> rose: additional funding provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider

of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: chiwetel ejofor is here, his role in "is it years a slave" earned him academy award in 20134 for best actor and is now playing in "z for zachariah." he is the trailer for the film.

>> i ain't seen one for over a year. a dead cobra. as long as we stay here, we'll be protected. (screaming) >> the swear to contaminated! erring >> got to be an explanation. this is crazy this is still here. i can't drive this. >> you can't get it to work. we'll get it to wor work manually. >> it works! this is between us. it's okay.

(barking) >> my name is caleb. (screaming) >> no, no, no. no, it's all right. >> it could be anybody. we have faith. what's your plan? if you need to figure it out, figure it out. >> i found out a lot of stuff about you. >> i have been on my own. you take the wager? >> rose: welcome. good to see you again.

>> and you. good to see you. >> rose: tell me who john lumas is. >> john lumas is a scientist and works in one of the bits in the trailer there. you see him in this hazmat suit. this suit is one of the things he's been working on as a prototype. he's been underground since last year ever since the nuclear event that killed everybody. he survived -- >> rose: the apocalypse. yes. he survived down there, he's come up, maybe out of food. he has a little wagon and he's moving around from place to place and comes across this valley that has been untouched, that everything has survived in. it's fertile, it's luscious and he can't believe it, and the reason why it's been untouched is because of its geographical components and just wind patterns have allowed it to be sort of free of the nuclear fallout. there, he meets ann burton, the

only survivor, and the two of them can't believe they're the only two people left. he's a very heady guy, so ling with his head, he decides he's not going to rush into a relationship with her, that he's going to try to establish this kind of friendship. the last thing he wants to do in a sense is get into a bad relationship with the last woman on earth. >> rose: yeah, exactly. and how else has the apocalypse changed him? >> i think he's been -- you know, there is this element of p.t.s.d. there are certainly issues that he had before, but this sort of intense loneliness, this intense -- the things that he's seen and perhaps done and that he carries with him is the kind of strong, inner life that we were working with. i think all three of us and the director were working for the strong areas of inner life so when these sort of interpersonal relationships started to sort of

dramatically escalate, all of these elements of character start to reveal themselves. >> rose: after all the success of "12 years a slave," did you sit back and say, i've got to be very careful about what i do now? or did you simply say, i'll look for good projects, and nothing had changed other than you were better known globally? >> i think that's what happened, that i was constantly in the search for interesting projects, you know, things i thought there was a lot to do with and a lot to bring. >> rose: and did you see exponentially more? >> well, yes and no. there were more projects around, but, you know, the specific -- >> rose: not necessarily that many more good projects. >> well, the specific requirements i have, you know, which kind of are a sort of complex, you know, they're sort of hard to explain. >> rose: the requirements you have. >> yeah. >> rose: why are they hard to explain? >> well, because they're slightly, in a sense, abstract.

it's a feeling or a term or something that might appeal to -- something that might appeal to me that seems like a strange choice, perhaps. >> rose: or from an agent's standpoint. >> yeah. >> rose: why do you want to do this. >> any combination of those. >> rose: and you can't necessarily explain it because it's a feeling. >> yeah, it's what you're pulled towards. it's what you feel you have something to say in that you're intrigued by, that you feel is a color or a tone, that you personally haven't explored and, in the end, that's something that i think is very important. >> rose: i would think that easy in "is it years a slave," easy that you could see and feel that instantly, something you might want to do. what was it here? >> well, it was a number of things. first of all, i had always been interested in two-handed and three-handed, you know, just in cinema. they're quite rare, but they're very interesting. it's always been something that's intrigued me to separate

everything else away and see thousand interpersonal, dramatic relationships with all the same people can create tall tensions and dramatic tensions in much bigger pieces just because to have the type of people they are. and there is no sort of bad guy or incredibly good guy. they're all in between, normal people. >> rose: qualities like jealousy and the like are as prevalent with three as it is with, you know, 6 million. >> well, exactly, yeah, but actually with two. and that was the real distinction for me and something i found really important and interesting in this film, that the distinction between two people and three is massive, you know, because with two people, everything else falls apart, everything else falls away, not apart. it's sort of like they have differences in the terms of their faith, for example. lumas is atheist, and ann is not. but it becomes irrelevant.

it's something that they can have a difference of opinion on but it has no political weight in their relationship. >> rose: but does he see her from the beginning as someone he falls in love with, or does he see her as someone he's obligated to have a relationship with because of the commitment to the rest of -- >> yeah, i mean, he sees, obviously, she's a beautiful girl and she's here, you know, but i think that he is -- it's not possible for him to take away in the scenes of fear, of moving into a relationship sort of head-long and front-footed, you know, that can have serious implications and problems. if it goes wrong. i think he thinks her attractiveness is irrelevant and he needs to find a way of really communicating and understanding her in the capacity of a friend before taking that into any kind of romance and to any kind of

other realm. >> rose: is this fill am kind of modern-day biblical tale? >> well, it's kind of the adam and eve but for real, you could look at it like that. it's somebody who's looking at what the underlying complications are in this construct, this eden in which they are, the beautiful countryside in new zealand is where we shot it, and you are trying to organize a relationship that has all of that external pressure. if you don't get it right, it has serious ramifications. >> rose: every decision has weight. >> yes, every thought process. every word out of your mouth has to be weighed because you don't want to send the wrong signals and get off into the wrong kind of area. so there are all of these choices, and they're pressured, and she's much younger, and he is a scientist, and he's introducing technological things

back into the universe and their kind of construct and, so, there's something paternalistic as well about their relationship and, for all those reasons, he is taking it very easy and taking it very slow, all of which turns out to be a terrible idea because he's not the last man on earth. >> rose: as we saw in the trailer. >> he's the second-to-last man on earth. when caleb arrives, who is front-footed, the first of life, an alpha man, it completely destroyed all of these best-laid plans lumas has been after. >> rose: which makes an interesting film. >> absolutely, because then it becomes a question of jealousies and, you know, how do you silently fight this kind of situation? you do it through manipulation, you know. if you k you do it through trying to outmaneuver the other guy. you do it through every sort of means that you have at your

disposal, you know. he finds himself equally a minority, you know, which is, of course, irrelevant is there is just the two of them. but racially and in terms of religion, he's suddenly -- he's minorityized, which then creates its own system of subconsciousness. >> rose: how does it change by the end of the film? >> through the film, the distinction between who lumas believes he is and who he actually is gets increasingly wider as he's having to justify all these decisions and actions and behaviors that lead him down a path that, if you were to talk to him at the beginning of the film or even at the beginning of the event at a nuclear event, where he ends up in this film is not a place you would think is conceivable for him. he's a moral human being, an

ethical man, a scientist, a man of reason, but within a certain sequence of circumstances, he's forcing himself to justify more and more sort of unethical, immoral acts. >> rose: in preparing for this kind of film in which these are fictional characters, how do you prepare? is it all in the text? or do you look for something else to hang this kind of her forms on? >> it was, i suppose -- >> rose: a model of someone you knew? >> it's an internal thing. i mean, there is obviously the sort of wider ideas you can look at. you can look at the technology -- we did a lot of that myself and the director, the technology of looking at the suits, what they may have been designing, what that might have meant, but because it's because

of interpersonal relationshippings and accessing whatever intelligence you have as a person and trying to play with other actors, you are just relying on your own personal structures, belief systems, ethics. >> rose: a screen scene where they discovered there is another living person. (shouting) >> okay! who are you? are there any others? (gunshot) who are you? are there any others? >> no others. it's just me. will you get out of the water, please? the water comes from outside the valley. you need to get out of the water, please.

>> no! >> rose: where are your stage ambitions now? >> well, i'm on stage in repertory theater for the national theater doing "every man," so i have a brief break while another show goes into that theater, then i come back and finish my show. so i'm almost at the end of it and it's been an extraordinary time, a brilliant summer, doing "every man," a 15th century morality play directed by the new artistic director of the national theater, so it's been an incredible process and for me an intentional show. >> rose: how are you growing as an actor other than simply you're growing as a human being? >> well, i mean, i feel like it happens concurrently, but i

definitely feel like, say doing a play like "every man," and trying to get into the moral complexity of our time, this time, and what morality plays now given our environmental concerns and ourself centeredness of mind as well is something that i feel that, by the end of this time, was rehearsing, i had a very strong sense it has made me in some ways a better person, and that's a great gift. >> rose: the influence of humanity of you. >> of me. it's not something i look for plays to do, but it's something that happened in this complex that's deeply gratifying. i think when doing theater and films, making films like "z for zachariah" and "every man," the detail in which you need to look at the pieces to flush out the nuances of it i think makes me a better actor and that's always

going to be a goal to keep on improving my work to a point i'm satisfied with. >> rose: who's had the most influence on you as a director? >> in theater, i would say i had the extraordinary opportunity to work with michael a few times, and we did "a fellow" in 2007 or 2008. i've always had a remarkable time working with him because he is -- he just has a great -- for me, a great way of speaking to actors and of guiding a piece. >> do you know what that is or just what happens? >> i think it starts with a great overview of the piece and, you know, a very watchful eye, and he's able to -- and the skill is to be able to nudge a production, nudge a performance

very gently along a certain way, which opens up, reactive for the aweddence, a whole room and i think he's somebody who understands what an audience is looking for, from the experience. >> rose: how long did you rehearse for "every man"? >> "every man," for me, was just over five weeks. the company was rehearsing longer. i was making a film in los angeles when i got into it. >> rose: what film? secrets. >> rose: when does that come out? >> november. >> rose: what's the satisfaction of acting for you? >> i think there is something about it, for me, as around form -- and this is what i was always trying to get to -- ever since i first performed, it was always a form of self-expression for me but a form of

self-expression that had distinct advantages. one was i was never naked. i could express myself artistically, i could express thoughts that maybe i had or had some variant of, but never having to do it as myself was a great advantage. i think in other art forms, if you're painting, singing, if you're dancing even, you know, you're so much more exposed. musicians are so exposed, poets are exposed, writers, obviously, but acting has that special thing, you know, that you can kind of be concealed. >> rose: if you hadn't found acting, what would it have been? >> i would imagine it would have been writing. i had a very deep connection to literature when i was growing up, and it is something i think, in some form, i have moved into some part of that. the thing about the reading plays is i decided, having been

reading plays, that i wanted to see what the structure and the form of how they're a meant to be shown, you know, so i went down to the theater at my school to see what was going on and then, of course, got the bug. >> rose: i've often said, if you had acting lessons -- i've thought this, not necessarily said it -- instruction, the more you understand the construct of a play, the more you understand what goes into it in terms of, i think, the more you appreciate it, like most things. the more you know about art, the more you appreciate the artist, for me. doesn't mean you can't and shouldn't enjoy it on a level of instant spontaneity, just simply how does it affect me, but the more -- and you can find a whole lot from simply connecting with how it affects your life or finding parallels between whatever the artist is saying, whether it's a character or whoever it might be. but, at the same time, the more you know about what goes into and how difficult it is to make

it good, the more you appreciate it. >> i think that's very true. i went to see, recently, a play at the r.f.c. for "a fellow," and having such an intimate knowledge of the play, word-for-word knowledge, it's always great for me to see that play and to see what choices people are making, to see what they're doing, how they're doing it, how it affects the rest of the play, how it affects the audience, you know, where they've lifted the humor, where they've lost id, and that's always the kind of fascinating, engaging thing to do, and part of it is wholly because i'm so within it, and i know it so well. >> rose: for me, you and i both talk about being in london and seeing benedict cumberbatch in hamlet, but the number of

years i have been on this program, 25 years, we've had a number of actors who have been hamlet and it's been a defining experience for them, all the way back to olivier, to take those different performances, and you understand a bit about the craft of acting and play writing if you can take a play and see it done in different ways, all true to the text, but, at the same time, understanding the creative imagination that goes into it. >> well, especially with hamlet. >> rose: with most of all of hamlet. >> i think most of all, yeah. it is a very difficult one. that is so well known at this point, that it's sort of hard to kind of -- and also, you know, it's surprising. i saw hamlet once, just outdoor hamlet, a very amateur production in oxford. in fact, the production got rained off and couldn't do the last fight scenes because it was

too rainy and slippery and dangerous. but i remember about halfway through for the first time, i caught the emotional wind of hamlet, and it really shocked me. i have been so familiar with it for so many years. >> rose: how many times have you done it? >> i've never done it. >> rose: never once? not once. >> rose: not even -- i have been asked to do it, you know, on different occasions. >> rose: and why have you said no? >> because i don't know that i have ever fully understood hamlet and ophelia, is my admission. >> rose: are you serious? yeah, and because of that, i've never found myself totally capable of being inside the play. >> rose: what is it you don't understand? >> their dynamic, their relationship. >> rose: why don't you think you could enter hamlet? >> it's hard for me to understand their dynamics. you know, her suicide, their relationship, you know, how he

treats her and what matters ultimately about her. you know, i've read extensively and i still don't quite, so i haven't ever been able to sit within it the way i can sit within other -- >> rose: obviously, there have been people here who really don't do shakespeare who are good actors. bill nye has no interest in shakespeare. >> yeah. >> rose: but i can't imagine you won't do hamlet. >> maybe i'll figure that out. >> rose: you can do this if you had to or be fulfilled in another way. but you're so good -- >> i would love to find a way to have completely connecting with him. i have picked it up many times and read it through and been really happy and feeling like i'm going wit and then reaching a certain point and thinking, what is this?

you know. >> rose: let's take the film role in "z for zachariah." >> sure. >> rose: did you have to understand him before you would accept the role? did you have to see and understand the relationship he had? >> yeah. i think you have to understand the kind of -- >> rose: or could imagine yourself there? >> and understanding psychologically all the basic points. there is a lot of work to do once that happens and there is a lot of dynamics and nuances and performances, you know, to flush out and understand, but if all the basic dynamics are in place, if i get it, then i can get on the train, at least. >> rose: what's the worst career decision you've ever made? >> uh... um... the worst career decision i ever made... >> rose: either by omission or commission? >> well, i don't know. i suppose in the end there are a number of different pathways, you know, that one could take. >> rose: and you can't tell if

you took this you might not have seen this, but by taking this, you saw this. >> yeah, and the clearest indication for me -- which wasn't a bad decision, it's just it didn't seem like a decision that could likely have a good end, and that was after i did amistad when i was young, lived in los angeles the first time, and i decided not to stay in hollywood and decided to go back to london and continue the theater career, which is because at that point i assumed that i would be doing theater -- >> rose: you didn't think about a film career? >> yeah, i didn't envisage having a film career. so later on it struck me that was possibly a mistake and maybe i should have, at that point, started to invest more into trying to do films and trying to do films in los angeles. but, you know, i don't know.

i think my decision to go back to london also influenced my -- and go back into the theater is the reason i met orange and stephen and -- so there's no part of it where you kind of -- there are so many different little avenues one could take but i could drive myself mad, i think. >> rose: good to have you. my pleasure. >> rose: "z for zachariah" premieres friday august 28 in theaters and v.o.d. thank you again. >> pleasure. thank you. >> rose: we'll be right back. stay with us. >> rose: al pacino is here. he is an oscar, tony and emmy-award winning actor. lee strasburg, long time director of the actor studio, says some actors play characters. al pacino becomes them. here's a look at just some of

his work. >> you stole my work. >> rose: i needed it. i love you. i'm going back to school. >> you are in trouble. i don't care. i don't care who gets it, including myself. if i have to go to outside agencies, where am i going to go! >> i know it was you, fredo. you broke my heart. you broke my heart. >> get over there, will ya! he wants to kill me so bad, he can taste it! (shouting) >> okay.

you want to play? i'll play. [ gunfire ] >> you want to learn the first rule, you would know if you ever spent a day in your life, you never open your mouth till you know what the shot is. there was a time i could see, and i have seen boys like these, younger than these, their arms torn out, their legs ripped off! but there is nothing like the sight of an amputated spirit. there is no prosthetic for that. >> if it's between you and some poor bastard whose wife you're going to turn into a widow, brother, you are going down. >> this guy is the top scientist in the number three tobacco company in america.

he's a corporate officer. you never get whistleblowers in fortune 500 companies. this guy is the ultimate insider. he's got something to say, i want it on "60 minutes." >> rose: what do you think about this career in acting that you've had? >> it baffles me. you know, you spend your life just moving on, you know. it's one of the perks but also one of the issues you have when you're with a group of people and you're with them and you're in a company and you know you all sort of feel that way. actors are transient, you know. >> rose: somebody once said actors are gypsies. >> they are. they have that in their spirit. so when i look at things i've done before, there is, mercifully, a distance you have and you look at it and say, that's all part of, if you want to call it development, or you

want to call it -- i remember kaz, m, they had a special evening for kazam, and he got up on the stage and said, wow, how am i still walking around! they had one for me, actually, and i went up there and i thought, there is no rehab in this. where is the time i was in rehab? i never was in rehab, you know. >> rose: but the question posed in john lennon's letter, stay true to yourself. you've stayed true to yourself, for the most part, haven't you? >> well, i don't know. i guess to. here and there i veered off. i don't know make those kind of -- i don't think of myself as that at all, that i'm being true to myself. i can feel when i'm not. i can feel when i've gone off the track. >> rose: in your life or in

the performance? >> more performance than personal life. personal life is a little too random for me and how -- i mean, i'm playing characters who've lived these lives all over the world and stuff and gone through, you know, the accessibility of things in our lives and our world, you know, that you travel. >> rose: a bit like people who say you shouldn't read tolstoy till you're 30, you won't fully understand it. >> they say you shouldn't do hamlet until you're at least 40, except you've got to do hamlet earlier because you won't do it if you wait till 40. you will learn too much, you will know it's impossible. so the best thing is to get in there -- i love when the young actors do it. i didn't do it. i never felt i was right for hamlet. i loved the play. it's probably my favorite play of all shakespeare. >> rose: you never did it. i never did it.

i did scenes from it. i just didn't feel i could exist in that play, in a way. i thought, like other people have that, when i get older, i'll understand it more. there's a question of understanding it as an audience and understanding it as an artist, and that's the separation for me. >> rose: was it kazam that wanted you to do a reading of hamlet. >> that was strasburg. >> rose: what was it? i was afraid to do anything. i was very young. i got to the actor's studio at a very young age. i sat around, watched them, and then i would go home. throughout my life, i would learn, i committed to memory certain monologues that i liked. >> rose: you were almost a teenager then. >> early 20s. i thought, gee, i've got these monologues in me, these great eugene o'neil monologues, and i had the wonderful robe from what

a slave am i, shakespeare and hamlet, and i had them committed to mind. i went up for the first time, and finally i got up the nerve to sign up and lee strasburg looks at the paper and say -- i loved that he was able to pronounce my name. i grew up with that in school. he said, al pacino? yes? what's this, hamlet and the iseman cometh? okay. let's see them. he said, you know, we take all kinds in here. (laughter) so i got up there and i did a ferocious rogue peasant, and then i went wild with the eugene o'neil, and i was really giving it the old gung-ho, stepping on the gas, really wasn't that

good. and it was over and he was looking at me and the audience got kind of teary about it because i had a lot of commitment and energy and i was young. he said, listen, al, here's what i would like you to do -- immediately, this was the genius of him -- he said i want you to do hamlet as hickey from the ice man cometh and hickey as hamlet. i immediately went into it, and he was very happy about that. i didn't pause and say, what do you mean? i just switched it. >> rose: so you had the character of hamlet in the text of hickey? >> yes. and then the text of hamlet in hickey. i learned more that day than i have my entire life. (laughter) >> rose: how have you managed to be a star to this day, and not playing character roles as much as you're playing stars? you're at the center of these two films. >> well, again, i'm going by

the -- >> rose: is it box office. -- what i'm feeling. >> rose: you tell me. i think it's always been -- you know, some movies i've made that aren't character driven, different characters i play, i don't know, i find it's always a mystery to me, it really is. a mystery that i'm actually here talking to you, and that i'm still doing this thing. but i started early, too, as an actor, and i was seen in new york in a play called the indian wants the bronx, in which i got a movie award for that that year, and it was faye dunne dunnaway who saw me in this play and i made movies with the producer. but that play, there was something in that play, and john

kasal was in it, too. and i had been acting maybe ten years before that. so i was quite young, my mid 20s, and it just started to sail along. i did feel, when i talked about it, tha that i went from being n explorer in my work in a way and trying to learn more about the classics and myself in connection with doing things. i got a lot of joy out of that. i was in a place called the actor's gallery, which nobody could even find in those days. but, as i said, the continuing, in the village and all, and then to finally be lauded, in a way, and suddenly, everything up to the stakes. and the start thing came in and the name above the title came

in, and somehow i was sort of trying to preserve something i thought i had understood earlier on because i then found myself in another world, which i liked. i thought it was a good thing. i still think it was a good thing. it was a lucky thing. things happen that way sometimes. but maybe something happened that was somewhat new. a new kind of person that wasn't comparable to other things people were seeing, came out of the '60s, came out of this time in america where people like me were, you know, being given an opportunity, whatever. owned. it was a combination of -- i don't know. it was a combination of things. i did a scene one time.

charlie, i saw him on his death bed night and i sawed to him, charlie, remember the time when they were doing this big thing, and i was one of the scenes in the school, and every teacher brought their student in that they wanted to show their work, how they were doing, and i went in to this thing, and i did this scene. i said -- and remember when i came to see you? charlie just grabbed me and said, good stuff, al, good stuff. and then the teacher got up and went crazy against me, thought it was the worst, said, who do you think you are, luther adler? you come up and do this! and i was sitting there thinking, what is this about? and i said to charlie in the hospital, remember that time? why was he doing that? why did he get so upset? he said, he saw a new time, a

new era. and i thought that that, in some way -- i think it's very dramatic to hear that, but charlie said, i don't know that it's true, but i do know that it was interesting because that was happening. you know, it happens today, too. something new comes along, and it's either, you know, we're getting used to it. in the old days, actors had to pronounce things a certain way and be a certain height so they would be seen in the audience. so i don't mean to compare myself with people like edmond team, but i was always reading books about actors, and edmond king came at a time where, you know, he came from a whole other climate, a whole other world, and when he went on the stage,

it was new, and i think there was something about the roles i played, in the situation and the times we were in that connected, and i got lucky, really. and then it's been this thing all my life. so i have to say, i know you've heard it a lot, everybody says it but it's true, it's luck and timing. i remember saying once to someone who said to me, al, because we were all together, actors, i'm no better than anybody else in that way, because i've seen people do such great stuff i wish i could do, but, at the same time, you know, this guy's saying, al, you know, you're doing so well -- a few years into it, right -- but says, what is it? why you? i mean, why not me? i've always wanted this. i want this stuff that you have. i says, yeah, i said, you wanted

it. i think i had to have it. >> rose: oh, wow, had to have it. >> had to have it. in a way, that's an interesting distinction. one doesn't know. i'm just mouthing now because i don't know. i think there was just a period -- >> rose: that you had to have it. >> -- i had to have it. and believe it or not, i knew at some point this was my time. i never thought it would turn into this, naturally, but i knew it was my time that i would be seen in some way, that enough had happened and that this part in the "israel harvest" play -- i went to boston, did two or three plays, repertory, and i went to do a part in a play, there was no way. they all wanted me, said you will be great for this, and i thought, maybe i will be. and i got up and did it and it was not good at all. as a matter of fact, i remember that i was in the dressing room

and somebody came down and i heard it on the speaker, my entrance was coming up, and this guy in the dressing room was really excited of this review he was reading of the play we were doing. and i said, what's that? he tried to cover it. i thought, why is he covering it? i said, can i see that, john? he said, yeah, okay, here. he pushed it to me and i looked at it, and i saw this great review, and it was about this person, that person, how great -- with the one exception -- (laughter) -- al pacino in the role of so and so was terrible! as i was reading it, my cue came and i had to act in the play he was criticizing me in. but i laughed. a certain period of time, the ability to look at something like that and laugh helped me a

bit. it hurt. but another part that i didn't want to do, i was okay in. so it's always the question of what do we do? i mean, you know, you're walking along the street and you see a certain tree, you either take the picture, or you get the canvass out and paint it. you never know when it's going to happen, you read a script. and with actors, if you don't try it, you're not going to know. and what happens is, if you start to censor yourself, i think when you start to censor yourself, it gets a little -- because we don't know. >> rose: thank you for coming. oh, my pleasure. great talking to you, charlie. >> rose: thank you. >> rose: helen mirren is here. she is an academy award winning actor. in 2003 she became a dame of the british empire. she currently stars on broadway, guess who, about the queen "the

audience." the associated press calls ate touching pertrade of power and majesty. >> you never thought you would be prime minister, did you? >> oh, goodness! no, no! there's a photograph of me taken outside downing street age 8, which people interpreted as such, but, no, there was any scheme or plan! (laughter) children in mill drij where i grew up never had boots or shoes for their feet, they wore clubs because clubs lasted longer. as children we never had dreams or hopes beyond survival. i nearly died of typhoid eight days, and now i'm here drinking tea with the queen of england! >> mrs. wilson must be very proud. >> oh, no, she's furious! no, she much liked our wives in oxford as a young wife. doesn't care for the limelight

of westminster life, certainly doesn't care for our home. >> downing street. calls it living in the office. >> my husband feels the same about this place. he absolutely loathes it. we all do, actually. >> no! yes! no! yes! what a scoop! >> rose: when peter morgan calls you up, peter who you know -- >> no, he e-mailed me. he said, i've written a play and i would like you to look at this. it's about the queen and her audiences. i e-mailed back a two-word email -- "you bastard!" (laughter) i knew he knew that, in the end, i would have to do it. i was to cross. >> rose: you said, no then yes. basically, you say them in a

room, the writer and the director -- >> i saw stephen doldri, one of the greatest directors in european theater, i saw bob croley, one of the top five designers in european theater, i saw robert fox, one of greatest producers, and i looked at the three and thought, don't be ridiculous! you're going to walk away from this? you will never get to do this again. >> rose: is it easy to play her? >> i knew all four of them. >> rose: you knew peter previously. >> of course. >> rose: is it easier to play her on film or stage or does it matter? >> it does matter. this is very different. >> rose: how is it different? doing the movie, the film, the first time i had done it or anybody had done it on that scale. so, you know, the implications of it were sort of terrifying, how it might be received and what flack we might receive. the second time, we know, you

know, now those things are accepted and known about. but maybe in a way, in the film, it's a very different animal, anyway, because on the stage, i go backwards and forwards in age, and ats stuff, you know, that's a difficult challenge. but the essence of the queen may be harder on film because it's close up and you've got to have that kind of working. >> rose: the interesting thing about the play -- let's tell them what the play is about. every week, is it tuesday? >> every tuesday, the queen meets with the prime minister for 20 minutes or longer, just so the prime minister lets her know what's going on politically, you know. >> rose: yeah. but neither the queen nor the prime minister ever talk about what they talked about. >> rose: and no one else is in the room. >> no one else is in the room, and it is not bugged. >> rose: we think. we hope.

but it's completely and utterly private, and it's one of the few places that either of them can feel utterly secure in the fact that, no matter what they say in this space, it will not go any further. >> rose: so peter had to imagine. >> so peter, of course, imagines everything. but the only thing that prime ministers have said is they felt they could say things to the queen that they couldn't say to anyone else because she's in a position of knowledge but, at the same time, she's got to keep her mouth shut. so they felt free to with her and in a way, for some of them, it became kind of a shrink. >> rose: and you see her going from churchill to cameron. >> yes. >> rose: and churchill, she was, what, 26? >> yes. >> rose: and churchill was a friend of the royal family. >> absolutely, and through the war and the rest of it. he must have been very present.

>> rose: and her attitude had to be a certain sense of awe, but she was the queen. >> yes. yes, she was the queen. yes. yes, of course. you know, that early scene where she's young, she doesn't quite know what she's doing and he's training her up, if you like, i love that scene. >> rose: but when you look at the career you have had, would you have had it any different? would you have liked more earlier? >> yes, i would have loved to have done more movies earlier. i, unfortunately, hit -- if you really want to talk about my, charlie -- >> rose: yes, i do, very much so. >> do you? >> rose: yes. oh, god! (laughter) anyway, when i was in my sort of golden era, if you like, between 27 and 37, the great era in anyone's life, male or female -- you know, you're at the top of

your game, you're getting to be wiser -- it was a very bad time for british film, it was a terrible time. confessions of the window cleaner, it was awful. so there was no british film industry at that time. so it wasn't until, actually, really, until i came to -- i mean, prime suspect was great. >> rose: i got 14 million viewers for "prime suspect." >> yes, it was very successful. but i had done a lot of very good tv at that point as well. >> rose: you would have liked to have had more film earlier. >> at that time, british film was alive and living on television. >> rose: but essentially, notwithstanding however old you are, i mean, you work all the time. >> yes, i do. >> rose: you're in the prime of your career, so to speak. >> it's been great for quite a long time. i've always gone between film and tv and theater. >> rose: you could be prime for a long time, but it's as good as it's been, isn't it? >> oh, absolutely. definitely. definitely.

i have to say, to be starring on broadway is fabulous! >> rose: what's good about it? it's that thing of seeing your name up in lights. it's pathetic but it's great! >> rose: you walk on the marquee. >> all the people and it's amazing! my sister and i look and -- >> rose: even know you get excited about things like that. >> oh, yes, fantastic. >> rose: did you say your greatest guru was francis bacon? >> artistically, yes. >> rose: how did he influence you? >> well, a great painter, obviously. there is a book called interviews with francis bacon, and he put forth the concept, which, at that time, i had just not thought of the tension between inspiration and technique, and the way accident

is very important in art, but you can only achieve accident in a full way after you've fully mastered technique. in other words, he said, you know, it's true, children under the age of 7, they're all, every single one of them, genius painters. they're genius because it's totally instinctive. but you can't be painting as a 7-year-old when you're 14. so, you know, you have to move forward. then you go through this painful process of learning technique, when you've lost all your instinct, you've lost all your inspiration, you're just learning how to draw a foot, you know. and then you get through that and now you can allow accident to happen. you're open to accident. you've got all the technique, you've got all that so deep within you, you don't even have to think about it. it's got to become thoughtless,

the technique, and then you can allow inspiration to come back. >> rose: thank you for coming. thank you, charlie, as usual. >> rose: for more about this program a earlier episodes, visit us online at pbs.org and charlierose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

good evening. my name is tj lubinsky, the executive producer of our my music presents series here on public television. recently i had the occasion to witness an extraordinary film on the life and story of karen and richard carpenter. so compelling is this film that i felt the need to share it with you immediately on your public television station. it's the story of the carpenters-- their rise to success, their fame, and all we cherish and celebrate about this amazing duo. music that has impacted and changed our lives forever, as tonight a special edition of my music presents brings you the carpenters: close to you. ♪ man: these were two innocent kids from downey