>> rose: welcome to the program. we begin this evening with ian bremmer and his analysis of the world today. >> i do think that we're going to see a breakthrough agreement between the americans and the chinese politically on cyber. i think they will announce, they have been talking back and forth. it's been acrimonious but there's been progress that they will pledge not to attack each other's critical infrastructure with cyber. we've never had an agreement like that before on a cyber issue. >> rose: we conclude with the great don henley of the eagles. >> the digitization of music and intellectual property in general is killing a lot of industries. it is certainly doing great harm to the music industry because it is making it possible for music to be so easily stolen.

there is a new generation with a new mind set that believes everything that's on the web is free for the taking. it's affecting journalism, film, anything that can be digitized. so there is really not much money to be made in selling records anymore. your record is just an advertisement for your tour. >> rose: bremmer and henley when we continue. 1>> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: american express. >> rose: additional funding provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide.

captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: pope francis arrived in washington today coming from cuba for his visit to the united states. also, president xi jinping of china came to the united states. his first stop is seattle, then washington and new york. cybersecurity and china's actions in the south china sea will be on the agenda during bilateral talks with president obama. in syria, russia stepped up logistical support for the assad regime. the russian military sent warplanes, helicopters, tanks, artillery and guns in what the president says is a campaign against i.s.i.s. more than 400,000 syrians have fled the country. a damageplan to relocate 120,000 refugees despite opposition by some member countries. the united states promised to accept 85 now 2016 and 100,000 in 2017. here to talk about all of this,

ian bremmer, he is the president and founder of the political risk analysis firm, eurasia group, and as always i am pleased to have him at this table. welcome. >> good to be back. >> rose: let's start with xi jinping since there is so much attention on this. clearly there are issues that need to be resolved and the top, i assume, is cybersecurity. >> it is and the first talk about that xi jinping makes is to talk to all technology c.e.o.s on the west coast and washington. >> rose: and other c.e.o.s, too. >> indeed. the chinese are the most important market in the world for some of these american c.e.o.s and the cheese made it very clear, they've twisted a bunch of arms that told these executives you're coming and we want you to pledge to chinese international concerns if you want to keep coming to this

country. >> rose: there was talk about sngses being imposed before he came and the chinese didn't like that and it did not happen. >> and the chinese privately said that they'd cut that summit and turn right back around if the sanctions were put on -- >> rose: if the sanctions are imposed, they said? >> they said privately they weren't going to attend the summit. but if -- but the sanctions hat been taken off the table and i think we'll see a breakthrough agreement between the americans and chinese particularly on cyber. they have been talking. it's been acrimonious but there is been progress that they will pledge to not attack each other's critical infrastructure with cyber. never had an agreement like that before on a cyber issue. at the same time, it doesn't address the chinese engaging in industrial espionage, so sanctions are still on the table. this relationship is getting more politicized on the

political front. the chinese feel we won't treat them as equal partners and the americans feel the chinese are getting away with reckless abandon, not having the rule of law and using their rules and lack of rules to benefit chinese corporations at the expense of the americans. we're really not coming to agreement here and we have a political pressure in the united states because of election season, many presidential candidates talking at great length about this, and the chinese are under more domestic pressure because they're had all this market volatility which has created some criticism of xi jinping in cheen. >> rose: whether their reaction was appropriate. >> whether they were reaction was adequate or sufficient and xi jinping feeling confident in terms of his position globally but not willing to take criticism domestically or give any corner to president obama. >> rose: and the president is

going to make a speech, in -- and the pope is going to make a speech. everybody wants to see, hear or touch the pope. some people don't want to hear his message, his pastoral message about what we need to do about refugees, about immigrants, about having a stronger sense of our brothers and sisters around the world. >> but congress is great, a sense of ceremony. a lot of people tinted want to see netanyahu come and address congress. but when he got there and rallied the crowd, everybody stood up and applauded. in case of the pope, everyone's going to go. congressmen are falling all over themselves to see who's more christian, believes in god more and is more willing to uphold values. >> rose: some of the things he says will be appealing to republicans and some democrat.

>> and he won't embarrass everybody, he'll deliver messages but his charisma is he's not trying to show the emperor has no clothes in front of the emperor directly. >> rose: but there is some pushback. i have to admire his pastoral role. you have to admire how he has used his own personality to be a towering figure as he shuns the the apartment and always insists on having the least attractive things for himself and, in fact, constantly says it's not about me, it's about jesus, and things like that. but at the same time, i mean, he is offering the world social critique about the way the world works. >> this is a country that is craving authenticity and in our own presidential elections, we're only getting it in people like trump and bernie sanders.

pope francis brings authenticity to an entirely different level. >> rose: he says what he thinks. >> and he acts the way he believes, and that's important, and that's problematic in the sense the catholic church represents a whole host of things that could not be implemented in an advanced industrial economy, some of the anti-science perspectives you see in response to climate change, some of the anti-can tallism perspectives would not only be dangerous, and the fund mendell message that refugees have to be taken care of, all of those -- yes. how can you not be excited? his first trip to the united states. yet no one is saying, oh, he went to cuba first, is from argentina, talks about the poor, he is pointing his finger at the .1%. most americans think that this is precisely what american has been lacking for a long time and we no longer know what america stands for and we want our values back.

>> rose: were we in any way as a country embarrassed by the fact europe and germany in the beginning were accepting many more refugees than we were? >> depends on which europeans. i think we were embarrassed by the headlines and the fact that we were nowhere on this, but i think the europeans are largely nowhere on this with the exception of germany, and germany is a wait and see case. >> rose: the pope took some families into the vatican. >> he did, i think two. some heads of state in europe, the finnish prime minister brought in one himself. this agreement in europe which is enormously contention is a tiny fraction of just the syrian refugees. 90% of the syrian refugees, the 4.2 million now, are not in the e.u. they're in turkey, iraq, jordan, lebanon, egypt, and the proposals coming from some of

the eastern european countries are close the borders and let's give some money to the turks and jordanians so we don't have to deal with the issue. i don't think the americans are feeling embarrassed by the europeans. i think the americans are feeling embarrass bid dead children washing up on shores and boats of migrants that have nowhere to go. >> rose: i'm embarrass bid that. >> i'm embarrassed. but i'm stunned that we still have -- that you had the republican debate, three hours of the republican debate just last week, and i watched all three, and we talked about immigration, we talked about the mexican wall. nobody asked about the syrians. that's kind of astonishing. it's a long way to swim to the united states, but we still don't really see or feel this is an issue. >> rose: within your realm of core competence, foreign policy and those kinds of issues, who on the republican side seems to be most savvy about understanding those conflicts?

>> well, the one that's -- the two that have been most impressive so far, marco rubio, his ability to display coherence and understanding of the big international issues out there has impressed me on international trade, certainly on terrorism, on russian-ukraine, just general fluency, more than just reading the "new york times" headlines. of course, lindsey graham, who has been well up to speed on this well before the presidential campaign actually started. while both of them have moved toward speaking points, wrapping themselves in the flag, talking about the need for leadership, i think going a little farther than they really believe in recent days, have to, giveton nature and tone of the debate right now, i think both are pretty credible generally on foreign policy. >> rose: what about trump? look, i mean, i have a hard time saying trump is credible on policy but he has no interest in talking about policy.

i think the only person people say who is going to destroy trump is trump. trump has become a phenomenon because he's interesting and captivating for the american media and the american voter. he is getting boring. that's what destroys trump. he has nothing new to say. >> rose: it's repetitive. it got repetitive after three hours. i will be stunned if the next time you and i sit down at this table he still has the numbers he has now. >> rose: let's turn to the president of russia who really commanded, over the last week or ten days, by announcing that they had begun to send new weapons, new planes, tanks, anti-defense systems and

questions were raised about why he was doing it, how far he wanted to go. he essentially said it was because he wanted to contribute to terrorist to stop i.s.i.s. and, at the same time, support the assad government. >> absolutely. >> rose: not because he likes assad that much but because he believes some kind of state is necessary, otherwise you have anarchy like libya. >> and if you're going to have a state, might as well have one you have control of. >> rose: he has control over it, you think? >> i think between he and the iranians. the iranians providing money and the russians providing the brute military force, i mean, assad was losing momentum, territory. >> rose: he's down to 25% -- 25% of the territory. that's when you start thinking of the potential of splits between the military, a palace coup, all the rest. and giving the willingness of

other countries to step up bombing campaigns and engagement of support against i.s.i.s. was itself growing. that meant the ability for the international community suddenly takes serious seriously as opposed to focusing primarily on iraq. meaning if the russians wanted to engage, this is the time to do so. >> rose: why do you think they did it at the time they did? because assad was losing territory? >> he wasn't about to fall tomorrow but he was lose mog mental and territory. i think the second point was the iran deal was done so, suddenly, the russians and iranians together can play geopolitics in a way that was going to be difficult when we were still trying to get that over -- >> rose: what role do the iranians play. >> the iranians after the russians are the most important supporters of the assad regime and can providety financing. >> rose: that's what they're doing? >> glee an>> rose: and will thae

from the sanctions -- >> $100 billion is useful. i'm not following the checks, now question it will create more flexibility for iran. >> rose: the interesting thing in russia yesterday was benjamin netanyahu. they're concerned about what their intention might be and how it might conflict with what israel's intention was. >> i think more importantly it was that the israelis have historically been willing to attack the syrians on a dime. when they see a threat they go in and quickly and the last thing they want to do is hit a russian so they want to make sure they have communicationons that. those communications military-to-military was set up before netanyahu's trip and netanyahu is basically solidifying it. so they feel comfortable with -- >> rose: that communication is taking place between the united states and russia. >> more recently. it's tough for the americans

because here's what putin's done. putin understands the europeans are more concerned about syria and the refugee crisis than ukraine. >> rose: he's please bid that. very pleased by it and you've noticed that the cease fire in ukraine now has miracle of miracles actually held for the last four weeks. i don't think that is coincidental. i think putin has given the word on the ground to those fighting in favor of the separatists saying let's keep ukraine quiet, let's get rid of the sanctions, and we can push the americans on syria now. we have some space. i think putin has played this masterfully and the americans who said consistently that bashar al-assad must go are now saying bashar al-assad must go but we're flexible on timing. >> rose: that would be john kerry saying that? >> that would be john kerry but also the white house broadly and here's the point, with edon't have the willingness to put the force in place to remove assad

ourselves, and no one else is going to do it for us, so russia is going to be calling the tune. >> rose: putin fears what might happen if assad with you not there. he fears some kind of anarchy like you have in libya. a legitimate fear. >> of course it is. >> rose: the number of jihadist and terrorist forces you have there. >> sure. >> rose: and who would be in control and what kind of fight would you see in damascus. >> but do the russians fear it more than the germans fear it? more than the turks fear it? a lot of countries are worried, rightfully so, about syria falling apart. the russians are the ones

geopolitically. he doesn't want casualties and that wouldn't go well in russia, but his approval ratings are well over 80%, and the economy and the currency which has been all over the place last year has stabilized. >> rose: notwithstanding oil prices and sanctions? >> notwithstanding them because the russians have been able to take it. they have been cutting back on defense. putin is going to be able to do it. we should not be setting red lines on syria again to the russians like we haven't before with assad. >> rose: how do you think the u.s. policy is evolving in. >> i think so we are reel reluctantly coming to understand that we are not going to make much progress in wars where we ultimately don't care nearly as much about the outcomes of the people we're fighting. we learn that historically the hard way in vietnam, afghanistan, iraq, russia,

ukraine and syria. the willingness of the americans to -- >> rose: or, there's a flip side of that, if our enthusiasm for it is greater than the people we came to support -- >> right. >> rose: if. yeah. >> rose: that's what you had in iraq. >> no question. but still at the end of the day, if we had known the size of the i.s.i.s. threat, we never would have withdrawn as many troops as we did from that country. >> rose: from iraq? from iraq. >> rose: we would have negotiated harder for a better deal. >> yes. >> rose: there is also the question of the iran nuclear deal. >> sure. >> rose: is obviously going to be a reality. what impact do you think it will have? >> it's mixed. if you look at the media, it implies you either did this deal or it was war, you know. you and i both know that's very far from the truth. if we hadn't gotten the deal

done the reality is much more prosaiic, it would have been a continued interim deal and more negotiations and kerry had spent an awful long time trying to get this done, people were very tired and it was difficult to get the two sides in agreement so even though we had to back off on important issues we decided on balancing. >> rose: it was p5+1 and is said in that is of congress the difference came from the democrats persuaded to stay with the president from all the foreign ministers from the p5+1 countries who came in and said this is the best deal that could be received, we did the best we could, a good deal and that's what convinced him. >> at least difference between the p5+1 and the europeans and the chinese. the willingness to push for the end, the premature end of the arms embargo against iran, the ballistic missiles and the rest, that was basically thrown into

the mix by the russians at the last minute. the queens did not like that at all. >> rose: at the united nations. >> at the united nations. they did not like that at all, but the americans took it. >> rose: how upset is assad with the deal. >> enormously, but they realize they don't have allies on the deal except israel who they don't publicly talk to so they have to get over themselves. >> rose: let me talk about the two places, one brazil. what's going to happen to the president? >> i don't think she'll get impeached because i don't see the support in the brazilian congress to make that happen and i don't think the investigation process will turn up that she's done anything directly illegal, but her approval ratings are through the floor. >> rose: why? they blame here because, number one, you don't want to be running brazil when the economy is doing so badly and, number two, this investigation has hit everybody close to her in her party. just draining down more and more and more.

it's as if you were doing an investigation in illinois and saying we're taking out everyone who's corrupt who's left governing the place. near term, the scale of this corruption campaign is a mess. you see now the brazilian morale is his torque -- the brazilian rialis at his torque lows. she's not getting impeached. there's no end in sight for the investigation. another 12, 18 months the brazilian economy will look weak indeed. >> rose: what about the victory of alexis tsipras in greece? >> shouldn't with b a surprise. syriza has been consistent in supporting the downtrodden greeks. the problem is city pray has to march to merkel's own tune. people would have liked it more if he had done a deal with the new democracy or greek

opposition as opposed to the independent greeks who are much more populous, he has developed some experience in governing and got rid of kind of the left forces within syriza itself. so over time, this is the government that will have more flexibility in actually working with the europeans, but what's being asked or demanded of them is not easy. as we look at it over the last couple of years, there is a chance of a greek exit. the thing that worries me most is not greece or the refugee issue but britain. >> rose: what do you think of the labor leader. >> he can't win but what worries me is the fact labor has made itself politically irrelevant. jeremy corbin has won, hard left labor leaders, off0% of the labor vote, means suddenly david cameron's conservative party has nothing to worry about and means

all of the euro skeptic ventures among the tories don't have to align with cameron, they can say what they want. britain staying in the e.u. has become much harder because angela merkel, chancellor of germany, is forcing the leadership role with accepting all the refugees that's very unpopular in germany. so cameron will have a harder time getting his folks on his side, merkel will have a harder time getting her folks on her side, and suddenly the possibility that the brits leave the e.u. is more real. >> rose: what's the most important topic of the discussion other than the pope at the united nations general assembly meeting? >> it's got to be the refugees. it's got to be syria and the refugee issue. putin is coming, the syria environment is changing

dramatically. you've got merkel basically saying publicly, the west is going to have to work with russia on the ground in syria. so is russia in or out of working with the west, and what does that mean? they have been effectively a pariah over the last year or year and a half, does that change? and what does europe look like? how do we react to the refugee crisis? there are probably bigger crises in the world now long-term. >> rose: but none more visible. >> none more visible or immediate or hitting europe. here in the united states we don't see it or smell it. it's not in our political agenda, we're hosting the united nations. how do we feel about that? >> rose: attend of the week, do you think the united nations and china will reach some sense of being in a better place than when xi jinping arrived? will it exacerbate or find common ground. >> i think it will paper over the difficulties and the paper

will be thicker than usual. >> rose: great to have you. ian bremmer, eurasia group. back in a moment. >> rose: don henley is here. he has a combined eight grammy awards as both a solo artist and founding member of the eagles. his career redefined what it means to be a summer, hit ongs hotel california, desperado, dirty laundry and boys of summer. now he is set to release his first solo album in 15 years. here is the trailer for cass county. >> my first memory of music is lying in that crib and hearing my mother softly singing as she did her housework, and my grandmother singing hymns in her rocking chair, and my grand-dad listening to his big old radio. ♪ when i was a young boy ♪ on a railroad track ♪ copper penny on the rail

♪ locomotive would come and squash 'em ♪ ♪ we would run to fetch 'em back ♪ >> so there was always music in my parents, grandparents house and my dad's car. so this album is a reflection of the sounds, textures and images i've carried with me for 67 years. it's rooted in the rural america that i knew, and it's tied to my native texas, the family, friends, the neighbors and the countryside. ♪ there's a picture of this ♪ this is me leaving ♪ there is a picture of this ♪ this is me walking away >> rose: going back to your roots, are you? >> i live and grew up in a very remote, rural county in

northeast texas. the entire population of the county is about 30,000 people. it was named after a senator from michigan named louis cass. in fact there are nine cass counties in the united states of america, all named after him. he was a prominent senator in michigan and then i believe he went to washington and became secretary of war for president jackson. so there are many states named after him but the one in texas is the one i come from. >> rose: i'll talk about that in a minute. why does it talk you 15 years? >> well, the eagles never stopped touring. since we regrouped in 1994, we have been on the road constantly, every year, all over the world, and i have been busy with that, and i also have three teenagers at home. >> rose: yes. and being their father is the most important job to me. >> rose: but you're on the road. >> i'm on the road, but when i'm

not on the road, i'm at home. i'm not -- i'm focused solely on those children and my home life. so it's not like i get up and go to the office every day. i'm right there at home. >> rose: would you do it if all the money wasn't there? >> yes. >> rose: you would? yeah, i like doing it. >> rose: it's what you do. it's what i do. it's what i do, and it keeps me -- it's therapeutic. >> rose: yeah. it keeps you sane. >> it keeps me sane. it's something -- i do it, as other artists have said, because i have to do it. >> rose: and you think of yourself as a vocalist, a song writer or a drummer? >> i'm all those things. probably a better singer and song writer than i am a drummer. but drumming was where i started, and i just happened to become the lead singer of the

group i was in at the time. >> rose: but that was because of the quality of your voice, i assume. >> i assume so, which is just an accident of -- >> rose: possessing a great voice got you to the vocals. >> which is just an accident of biology, i guess. >> rose: you knew this from a young age that you had perfect pitch, that you had a voice that -- >> well, i'm not sure i had perfect pitch. i had pretty good pitch most nights, but the structure of the vocal chords are something that we actually -- we have nothing to do with. it's odd. >> rose: i wonder if we know what structure it is that leads to great voices. >> i don't know. there are people i grew up emulating. i had the advantage of singing in a great many styles when i was growing up because we were a top 40 cover band when we used to play clubs and parties in texas. in my first band, they wanted a viefort tunes from a variety of

artists, so we did soul, country, rock music, and i tried to sing in the style of a great many people. eventually, if you do that long enough you find your own voice, which i did in the late '60s, even thecies. >even'70s. >> rose: you try everyone elss then find your own. >> i think so. >> rose: you are so busy writing and touring that you can't get it together? >> i've never been able to write on the road really. >> rose: you didn't have anything to say? >> i always have ideas. i wake up every day with some kind of music in my head and ideas in h in my head that i wod like to say. i'm disorganized with that. i wake up in the middle of the night with an idea and there's no pen and paper there. >> rose: at some point, you should learn that. >> there is another

singer-songwriter talking about the same thing. we write things down on napkins and match books and throw them in a cardboard box. when it comes time to do an album, you dig out all the peels of paper. >> rose: is the audience changing or just adding new ones? >> we are very delighted to see younger people in our audiences. obviously, most of our audiences are composed of baby boomers, but we are seeing younger people there all the time, some of them come with their parents, and some of them come, you know, with friends. the thing that's changing and the greatest thing that's changing is the addition of the cell phone and the texting that goes on and the distractions that go on. >> rose: you don't like that? no, a lot of artists don't like it. there's been a big backlash recently. we were one of the first groups to protest that and we got a lot

of flack for it but now there is a whole movement in the artist community that that needs to stop and that people need to be in the moment. because texting is distracting to people around you. >> rose: i think that's happening in the theater, too. >> it is. and holding your phone up to take a photograph, of course, blocks the view of the people behind you. we ask people as politely as we know how before each concert to please be with us in the moment. we all have trouble being in the present these days, we're always somewhere else, and we ask them to please forgo the phones and to just be there with us in the moment and to enjoy the concert with their eyeballs instead of through a view finder and it's working. people are starting to get on board and even applaud that policy now. >> rose: this looks like vinyl to me. >> probably is, yeah. my new album will also be in vinyl. >> rose: because people are realizing vinyl is a unique sown, a bettor sound? >> a warmer, more organic sound.

even though its noisier than digital, not as quiet and pristine, but it has a warmth and a coziness and a personality to it that's just more fun to listen to, and people are going back to it in droves, and it's wonderful. i think it's a wonderful thing. >> rose: how else is the business changing? i asked you about the change in the audience, but the business is changing. we now have, you know, radio, clearly, but we have pandora and spottify and apple music. do you like all that? >> not really. you know, the digitization of music and intellectual property in general is killing a lot of industries. it is certainly doing great harm to the music industry because it is making it possible for music to be so easily stolen.

there's a new generation with a new mindset that believes everything on the web is free for the taking. it's affecting journalism, it's affecting film. anything that can be digitized. so there is really not much money to be made in selling records anymore. your record is just an ad advertisemented for the tour. >> rose: money is in the tour. money is in the tour. this is a promotional device for the tour. >> rose: i is this? pretty much. >> rose: this is a solo tour. i spent over a million dollars making that record and over five years and i very much doubt i'll see a profit from it. >> rose: not for five years? i doubt i'll see a profit from it at all. this is basically an advertisement for my tour. that is what it's come to. >> rose: because you're making the album and talking to people like me, people will want to go see you on tour?

>> i hope so. we have all the services, pandora and spotify, but they pay a fraction of percent to the artist. we don't get paid enough. i could do an hour on google and youtube because google owns youtube and how much of the content on youtube io stolen property and google takes no responsible for that. the burthat, the burden of proof is on the oner of the copyright. >> rose: backwards. and the government isn't interested. going is powerful, they spent between 11- and $13 million on lobbying every year and it's hard for the record industry to compete with that. >> rose: you're a sammy businessman. >> i became one over the years. >> rose: you have to be. i certainly wasn't when i started out.

i was completely naive. but we learned, over the years, and then we've had to learn since the digital revolution came along, we've had to learn about this whole new paradigm. the other thing about digital is we spend all this money making these records -- there used to be a thing called audio files. you would buy your big speakers and stereo system and you would sit in front of the speakers and listen. now people listen -- we spend all this money and listen on earbuds with a device this big with a band width that is almost nothing and you don't get all the sound that went into this record. >> rose: you can argue more people are hearing it than you ever dreamed of. >> that's the argument the digital companies made is it's about convenience, getting the

music to the consumer in any way, and it's about giving people their music whenever and wherever they want it, and those are -- >> rose: what are you going to do? are you going to fight it? >> we've tried. you can't really fight it. >> rose: so you accept it. you just sort of go with it. i don't accept it. for now -- the problem with this is the artist community is never organized. we've never been because we're artists. frank sinatra tried to organize the artist industry in his day but he failed in organizing the artist community into a cohesive, powerful voice in washington, and we tried several years ago. sheryl crow and i and some other people created something called the recording artists coalition and we went to washington and testified before senate committees and did this, that and the other, and it came to little, you know, because, you know, again, the internet companies are very big and very powerful. >> rose: when you hear

sinatra's voice, what do you hear? >> what do i hear? >> rose: is it phrasing, is it -- >> his phrasing is incredible, first of all. nobody could phrase like him. there might have been better singers tonality, you know, dean martin and sammy davis, jr. might have sung more in tune, but sinatra was the king of phrasing and delivering a certain sort of feeling you didn't get from any other singers. >> rose: i've had painters come to me and talk about the art of creating, and they are constantly going to museums or going to galleries or looking or going to wherever their artists friends are having things and they're looking and examining and they're saying what is this artist doing? how is color, how is texture, how is the stroke and examine it

clinically. do you do that? >> yes. i've done that for a long time now. glenn and i did that at the outset of the eagles. we were both students of music and of the history of music and the history of recording and the methods of production and the sounds of the instruments and what instruments were used and the people i work with now, my partner stan lynch, who was the original drummer in tom petty and the heart breakers, he and i and my former partner danny are all students of music and we listen to other people's records, especially older records, and we study those production techniques and we study song writing, and if you're going to be a good artist, you really have to learn about what tame before, and we do that. >> rose: did danny ever work with james taylor? >> oh, yes, in the early days. >> rose: they were really close. >> absolutely, yes you did. >> rose: james called him

cooch, didn't he? >> we called him cooch. very bright and talented man, cooch. >> rose: what do you think of the political season so far? >> oh, lord. >> rose: oh, lord. i think it's just -- >> rose: you have been politically active all your life. >> i wish they could elevate the debate instead of arguing like a bunch of school boys. to me, it's just shameful, and it's counterproductive, you know, name calling and, you know -- i don't like what i see. it disappoints me. it's hard for me to watch, actually. it's hard for me to get passionate about getting into the game. i used to be much more involved in politics than i am now but i've backed off in recent years simply because of the -- >> rose: what candidate were you most involved with? >> back in the day? >> rose: yeah, back in the

day. >> well, i supported bill clinton, of course, who is a friend of mine. >> rose: fellow musician. u know, but i've backed off considerably just because -- what word should i use -- the tawdriness of the debate. >> rose: what about trump? (laughter) >> funny you should mention him. >> rose: why is it funny i should mention him? >> i was on the stoaf stephen ct show -- >> rose: you heard about that? yes, i did. >> rose: what did you say? i just interjected his name into a song. a song called "too much pride." (laughter) but, you know, the egotism and the self aggrandizement and, you know, we need to talk about the issues, and we're not even talking about the right issues. again, it's like a bunch of school boys arguing in the school yard. >> rose: but can you talk

about issues in your music? >> not so much. times have changed and people don't want to hear it. people do not want to be lectured or preached to. i did get issues into some songs on this new album. there is a song called praying for rain, which is a song about drought and climate change. >> rose: right. disguised -- it's sung about from the point of view from a poor, humble farmer, and he talks about how things have changed. there is also a song in there called "no thank you," which is sort of my tribute to the late, great buck owens who is my favorite country artist and born in texas. >> rose: why is he your favorite? >> i loved his music. i loved the way he sang and wrote, and that song, the tribute song to him in there is called "no thank you," which, at one point, states that -- talks about republicans and democrats and basically says, i'm sick of all of you.

none of the above, he says. (laughter) >> rose: glenn frey once said of the success of the eagles, we made it and it ate us. >> yes, which is his way of saying that fame can be -- when one is not prepared and mature enough for the spotlight, that it can be a destructive thing. i have a song on this album, the song i close with is called "where i am now," and it says there is no limit to the havoc he can wreak when a young man slips into his self-destructive streak. i have been east, west, north and south, but i made it through somehow and i like where i am now. >> rose: but the question is, did you have to go through being east, west, north and south, in order to get to where you are now? >> well, that's one of those

hypothetical questions. the road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom, it is said. >> rose: i'm glad you're a poet. >> sometimes. maybe i did and maybe i didn't. we are receiving the kennedy honors this year. >> rose: i wanted to say that, congratulations. >> thank you. >> rose: december 6, you will be in washington. >> i will. >> rose: and this is one remarkable pantheon of great americans. >> yes. >> rose: and you will be there. >> and we are proud and grateful to have been chosen to receive that honor. >> rose: does that mean a huge amount to you, considering you're a man who has received many honors, in terms of every hall of fame you can be in. >> it is. it means something, yeah. >> rose: it's american. it's a very american honor. it's a wonderful thing we don't have to perform which is a great

pressure. >> rose: it means there is a presentation. >> i did that for my billy joel this year before last. he's a good man. he's done a lot for working people. you know, his empty and his efforts on behalf of the baymen, the fishermen and his song about allentown, pennsylvania, he's very aware of the plight of the blue-collar worker in this country. i share with him in a different aspect. my passion lies with the farmers and the people who work on the land, because most of my ancestors were farmers. so i have songs on this album and -- >> rose: something you and willie share together. >> yeah. >> rose: are there other passions you and willie -- >> no, not really. i got through that one a long time ago. a long time ago. (laughter) >> rose: but you're a happy

man now. >> yeah. >> rose: you have been happy but you also went through all the temptations of fame. >> yeah. you know, i was reading the other day -- a friend of mine sent me an interesting article. there is a theory in the west that great art has to come from misery and suffering, but in the east, they don't believe that -- >> rose: east as in china. as in the eastern civilizations, they believe great art comes more from balance and enlightenment. they asked several artists that question about do you have to suffer to create great art. alice walker said an interesting thing. she said, i used to believe that. i was taught that by langston hughes who believed that. as i got older, she said i got happier, and i was still writing well. i knew painters and musicians and writers who thought they had

to suffer for their art. they asked the dalai lama the question and he didn't even answer the question. >> rose: because he clearly believed it was contentment. >> yeah. >> rose: most great artists have told me, the majority who have come to this table, many, many great artists, they said it's hard work. >> someone once said writing is 10% inspiration and 90% perspiration. that's true. to finish a great work, you might get an epiphany or a great idea may come to you in the middle of the night and you say, this is great and start writing, and you only have this much. then after that, you sit down and sweat it out, and it is hard work, which is why i get so, you know, exercised about people stealing songs because they have no idea the work that goes into the songs and that it's a real job. it's not a hobby. it's a calling. >> rose: it's a calling. it's a calling and a lot of people do it for a living that don't get to tour.

the people in los angeles and nashville who are just songwriters for a living, they don't get to tour, so they make their money solely from the song. then we have the interactive crowd who think they can do and take a song and change it up. >> rose: like deejays? and the people who sample and mostly sungar people, yo -- youe who think they can take somebody's finished work and actually tamper with it and they don't understand copyright laws. you know, it's like walking into a museum and paint -- pain paina mustache on somebody's painting. it's just not right. the internet is slowly but surely killing the idea of copyright. there was a law that, bless his heart, president clinton signed it into the law, the 1994 millennium copyright act and has a loophole called the safe

harbor clause that is abused daily, and that law needs to be -- that millennium copyright act needs to be either done away with or rewritten because it is allowing theft in the billions. you know, again, we don't get much response from government because the big boys are there with their lobbyists. but song writing is a difficult task. it is not easy to write a song, and you spend a lot of time and money and effort recording a sopping properly and then performing it, and people need to have a little more respect, i think, for the job. >> rose: great ed bradley. yes, i knew ed. >> rose: i know you did. he told me a story and told others the story, he imagined dying, and he tragically died too young, and going to heaven and whoever meets you in

heaven -- >> right. >> rose: -- would say, what makes you believe, mr. bradley, that you belong to be here? and ed would say, have you seen my lena horne interview? (laughter) >> that's a good one. >> rose: you know where i'm going. >> yeah. >> rose: so if it's you, you're going to say -- >> did you know the astronauts took "hotel california" up into the space capsule? (laughter) >> rose: "hotel california"? well, that's our best-known song all over the world, even in china. you know, in the remote regions of china. i have a great story about that. i went one year in the '80s with the c.a.r.e. organization into the jungle of honduras. we landed in one of the major cities and drove for hours in

jeeps up the mountainsides on roads that were so narrow i was afraid the right tire was actually off the edge. and we drove for what seemed like hours up to the top of a mountain where there was a wildlife preserve. but there was some woman up there who was sort of a cult leader. she had taken her tribe of people and moved them up to that mountaintop to get them away from the, i don't know, the difficulties of civilization down below, and they lived up there without electricity and without plumbing and running water and literally in grass huts, and we had been there in that little -- tiny little village with a few people for about ten minutes, and a young man disappeared into one of those grass huts and came out holding an old cassette player boom box with a cassette in it

and pointed to it and he pointed to me and he said, "you," and i looked at it, and it was "hotel california." these people didn't even have electricity. i guess the thing ran on batteries. they wound it up. >> rose: there's no place on the planet i can go to escape. what does that mean to you? >> i don't know. being on the inside looking out, it's very difficult. it means that music is a very powerful thing that transcends cultural and political boundaries and international and geographic boundaries. music is i think one of america's most important exports because it still brings people together who have very different lifestyles and very different beliefs, and i think that that's something we should never forget in our culture is what a

powerful bonding force. the fact we were able to play in moscow for example, and we played in cape town, we played in do yo dubai, and the fact wee able to do that and got permission from the chinese government. we had two guys following us. we laughed and we said, we're not sure if they're hear to protect us or to protect the chinese from us. (laughter) >> rose: that's great. so music is a very powerful thing, and i'm just grateful that i could be a part of creating part of the sound track of my time. i just feel very grateful for that. >> rose: it's a great place to end. thank you. >> thank you. >> rose: always great to see you. >> you, too, charlie. >> rose: don henley, the eagles. the new solo album, "cass county." thank you for joining us. see you next time.

>> rose: for more on this program and earlier episodes, visit us online at pbs.org and charlierose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

kacyra: it kind of was like the bang that set off the night. rogers: that is the funkiest restaurant. man: the honey walnut prawns will make your insides smile. klugman: more tortillas, please. khazar: what is comfort food if it isn't gluten and grease? man #3: i love crème brûlée. woman: the octopus should've been, like, quadropus, because it was really small. sbrocco: and you know that when you split something, all the calories evaporate, and then there's none. man: that's right, yeah.