>> rose: welcome to the program. tonight a conversation with megyn kelly of the kelly files on fox news. >> neither one of us wanted any sort of a war with donald trump, you know. and we didn't think that benefitted the channel am we didn't think it benefitted me. and we don't think it benefitted donald trump. and i think donald trump would say that now. so we just sort of wanted to move forward, you know. put a period at the end of it. he was obviously up set. that's fine. that's, you know, he's running for president. it's not a fun business and there are going to be ups and downs. nd i know he considered that a down so we just wanted to forge forward and try to put it behind us, not pour any more fuel on that fire. >> rose: you want him back on your show? >> i'm sure will come back on eventually. >> rose: sooner rather than later? >> well, it has to be just right. i think that will be a big momentment done you think that will be a big television moment, right? >> rose: of course. and then robert costa on donald trump.

>> he really does care about these polls. does not have a pollstar inside of his campaign. said to imhad, mr. trump, are you going to bring on a poll stferm he said i just read the public polls. he has them pile on his desk and goes through them line by line with a blue marker. he really cares about his standing in the race. he is going to remain done all trump. he's not going to have a second act in terms of style. what is changing for trump right now is the operation of his campaign. >> rose: megyn kelly and robert costa when we continue. funding for charlie rose is provided by american express. >> additional funding provided by: and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide.

from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: megyn kelly is here. she anchors the kelly file on fox news. it is currently the second most watched program in all of cable news. amy davidson of the new yorker has called her the brains of the fox news operation. in august she comoderated the first republican presidential primary debate it was viewed by a record 24 million people. her tough questioning of donald trump provoked a public feud that has lasted for months. the gop front-runner directed a series of personal insults at her, roger ailes had to come intervene. megyn celebrateses the second anniversary of her show this month as she continues to lead the network's 2016 election coverage. here's a look at some memorable moments of her at work. >> in your op ed you write as follows. rarely has a u.s. president been so wrong about so much at the expense of so many. but time and time again history has proven that you

got it wrong as well in iraq, sir. you said there was no doubt saddam hussein had weapons of mass destruction. >> do you appreciate the reckless of that. >> i don't say it wasn't eck -- reckless. >> who are you to say-- ness. >> i don't say it wasn't reckless or it wasn't illegal it was illegal. we crossed lines of legality. >> it's to the about legality. it is so much big are. you could have murdered somebody with those bombs. >> and we didn't. but actually, the people who were conducting the war in vietnam did actually murder people. >> and so the-- so you should make your self a murderer as well. >> on the subject of iraq, obviously very controversial, knowing what you know now, would you have authorized the invasion? >> i would have. and so would have hillary clinton, just to remind everyone. and so would have almost everybody that was confronted with the intelligence they got. >> you don't think it was a mistake. >> in retrospect, the intelligence that everybody saw, that the world saw, not just the unites states, was faulty. >> mr. trump, one of the things people love about you is you speak your mind.

and you don't use a politician's filter. however that is not without its downsides. in particular, when it comes to women. you have called women you don't like fat pigs, dogs, slobs, and disgusting animals. your twitter account -- >> only rosie o'donnell. >> no, it wasn't. >> you've heard your critics. they say, we covered it in the piece. your critics say you too are a sinner. that you were married four times, twice to the same man but divorced three times. that you had an affair while married. that you had children out of wed lock. and they look at you and say who are you to judge others? >> rose: wow. define the kelly style. >> i think fearless. i try to be fearless when i go out there on that set. i'm not necessarily so in my real life. i try to be fair and balanced. i try not to take any bull.

i don't allow talking points because i feel that i'm an advocate for no one except for my viewers so even if it is going to tick off the guest i will try to get through the talking points and get to the meat of the matter. but my number one goal when i go out there every night for me personally is, i call it the experience i want the viewers to have, it's like cool water over a hot brain. you know, we tackle very difficult subjects. and these are people who work or who spend the day looking after their kids. and they don't have a lot of time to read the news all day. so they have to digest complex subjects in record time. and they don't want to have to rewind on the tivo in order to understand the broadcast. so if i can take those complex matters, break them down into small digestible bits and be their advocate to try to keep people on point, not go off into the talking point, not spin, stay relevant, then i've done my job. >> rose: when you look at the preparation you do, what are you looking for? how do you prepare? >> well, i basically have a

team of people who help me now. so that when i got to prime time they gave me staff which is wonderful. in the day time they don't have to ask. i work with my executive prouder and editorial producer to come up with what we think is the news of the day. so we are, our editorial producer has scanned the ter in the afternoon weswe. have a conference call with everybody. we come up with our draft rundowns is probably what we're going to do. this sour lead, our guest, how do we pair up the stories with the guests. by the time i get in and start reading-- . >> rose: which is about. >> well, i arrive probably around 3:30 and 4:00. i start actually reading the packets that the producers have given me in the 5:00 hour. and they've done all that work prior to that. so i have it condensed into nice, you know, packets. and that's all i do. i mean really from 5 to 9 i just read read read as much as i possibly can. >> rose: and what time do you get home? >> i don't get home until

after midnight, usually. because once the show is over, i have a brief meeting with my team where we talk about what worked, what didn't work wa, do we think the big story follow is going to. then i go back to my desk and it's shangri-la. my team has left. my kids are asleep. my husband calls me every night around 10:47. we have a chat about the show, about the kids, about, you know, our eveninging because we don't get to spend our evenings together. and after that i can just answer all the e-mails i haven't answered and do some phone calls and read things that i want to read for pleasure. it's-- i love that time. >> rose: is this what you always wanted to do, even though you went to law school and became a trial lawyer? >> but was journalism-- i know it was an. was it what you thought might be perfect for me? >> originally, yes. when i was in 10th grade i took an aptitude test, one of those tests of what do you want to be when you grow up. you check this is what i am like and this is what interests me it said i should become a journalist. so i did a one-day

internship, it was following a guy around at the albany times union. a print journalist and i loved it. it was so exciting to be in on the conversations he was having with the politicians and so on. so i said this is for me. so i applied to the syracuse newhouse school. i wanted to go to syracuse my whole life. my father had taught there when i was a kid. a plied and they promptly rejected me. >> why did they reject you. >> they did not believe i had any future in broadcast journalism and said no. so i went to the maxwell school at syracuse, got a polly sci degree, decide i might be a pretty good district attorney. >> rose: a prosecutor. >> prosecutor. and then when i graduated from college and went to law school, suddenly i realized now i'm in law skoochl i have $100,000 worth of debt. if i take a job with the manhattan da they will pay me $30 grande year and i will be below the federal poverty level because at that time you had to live in the borough for which you pros kulted. ayman mann rent, with $1 houn ho,000 in debt. did not work.

>> i have never been good at math but that math i got. >> rose: so you ended up at-- where you were a trial attorney. >> yeah. >> rose: at some point you worked yourself to near exhaustion. >> yes. >> rose: because of ambition, because of what? >> that is an interesting question. no one ever asked me that before, why, why did i do that. well,ed law say jealous mistress. and it demands much of those who practice it. but i do believe it is baked into my personality to be an overpreparer. and to throw myself into whatever project i'm doing. and in fact, when i was making the switch from journalism-- or from law to journalism, i said to myself, whatever profession you pick next, you better make sure it's something that can have an end to it at the end of the day. which law does not. there's always another brief to write, there's always another case you could read, always more research you could do. one of the things i love about journalism is this will literally yesterday's news tomorrow. and you can turn the page

and so-- . >> rose: every day it's refresh. >> it's very rare that you would do an all-nighter to prepare for tomorrow's news because it hasn't happened yet that is worked out well for someone like me who did many all-nighters when i practiced law because there was just always more to learn. >> rose: so to look at your life, it seems to me there are two significant events. one the law and leaving the law, and the other is the death of your father when you were 15. >> yeah. that was unexpected. he was not sick. he had a massive heart attack ten days before christmas in 1985. so he was 45 years old. i was 15. and he dropped dead in our home next to the christmas tree. >> rose: you and your moth her to -- did. >> my mother and pri both home, my sister was home. and we, you know, the ambulance came, they tried to revive him and they couldn't. we all went to the hospital. my brother was in college nearby so he came home. he came to the hospital.

and things would never be the same again. you know. it was in no way something we accepted-- anticipated. he hadn't had heart problems. we hadn't had anybody in our family except for elderly grandparents pass away. and my mother was 44 years old, which is my age now, and found herself a widow. and it did change-- . >> rose: with three kids, two of whom were in college and one was on her way. i was a sophomore in high school at the time some she used pie dad's insurance money to pay for our college education. and continued working as a nurse. but it was hard. it was-- it was life changing in many ways. and obviously the downsides are probably obvious. to your viewers. but there was a silver lining to that tragedy. and i thought a lot about it over the years. i believe that it's made me keenly aware of my own mortality. and it has lead me to make different and better choices for myself in the 30 years

going on 30 years now that i have had since his death. >> rose: for example? >> well, i don't think i would have made the switch out of my legal job had it not been for that awareness. that you know, time is passing me by. and it will end. and you really need to make the best choices for yourself while you're here. as hard as that may be. and what i had realized after eight years, nine years of practicing law was just because you're good at something, doesn't mean it makes you happy. and it was a tough realization because when you practice law or do any profession that you put a lot of time into, it becomes part of your identity. and your ego. it gets linked to it. but i understood i was not happy. and i needed to make a change. i also had a first husband who i was married to for four years. and he's a dear man. we're still friends to this day. but it was another area that i took an honest look at when i was changing my life to ask whether this is what

i wanted. forever more. and you know, we wound up divorcing. we're still friends. he remarried and has kids, i remarried and have kids. but i don't think i would have necessarily found the courage to do those things had i not had that experience with my father. >> rose: i read a story about you in which after you became first in reporting in washington, becoming anchor and then becoming prime time, on cable television, especially at fox with its viewers, that roger ailes said you've got to be more vulnerable. what was that about? >> well, he called me into his office not long after i had joined fox. i was maybe two years in. i was still reporting from the d.c. bureau as a general reporter. and i said love the whole package. love the look, love the voice, love the smarts, love the presentation. now who's the real you?

and i was completely taken aback. what do you mean. this is me. i-- i am fire on all cylinders this is who i am. you know, and typical roger, he didn't buy it he knew it was not exactly an act, but a defensive shield. and he said look, the viewers can smell a phoney from a mile away. so i encourage to you be more vulnerable. be your true self, and take more risks. and i know that you're afraid of failure. but failure is okay. if you make a mistake, just own up to it and it will not only will it not hurt your credibility with the viewers, it will gain you credibility with the viewers. and i think i was at a point in my life, charlie, where i was ready to hear that. i think you can hear that advice and not act on it. depending on where you are. but i was really coming into my own at that moment. and i was ready to hear it. and i did shed a lot of those layers. and you know, went forth

unafraid. >> it's a special relationship between you and roger ailes. >> very much so. >> i mean he takes a lot of credit for giving the opportunity. he gives you more credit because you are the one who is out front. define the relationship. >> he's absolutely a mentor to me. he's also a friend. he is my boss. i mean we're not equals. but i depends on him for friendship and sane, honest advice. and he will give it to me. never with respect to the news coverage. and people think that roger ailes is the republican op rattive and he's back there giving the anchors gop talking points. >> no, that saul bs. never once in my 11 years there has he told me how to consider a story or what to ask or tried to get me to change coverage of a story. but he does give you advice on your personal life, on your, you know, who you are and how you are translate on television. like even down to little things when i first started. he would say it's too rapid

fire. you know, take some pauses, slow down from time to time. and he, of course, was right about that. he just has this sort of x-ray vision into your soul. and he has a way of knowing what you need. if you need to be build up, can do that. if you need to be, you know, checked on your ego, he can do that. and he had so many great stories, war stories of his years on this planet. so it's-- he delivers it with gentle aplommb. >> rose: can you pga going into his ochesz and saying roger, i have decided to leave. i have accepted an offer somewhere else? >> that would be a tough conversation to have. i mean i'm not saying i would never leave, right, obviously you would have to look at whatever opportunity to came your way. but i really care about fox. and i really care about roger. and he has been nothing but good to me. and he's been very loyal. and he's had my back. and he's looked out for me. and you know, those moments you show, the debate moment, why did i have that.

because he put me in that position. you know, he trusted me on that big night. >> rose: and how did he council you when donald said the things that he said. >> i actually spoke with rogers every day during that whole dust-up. there were some reporting that he had abandoned me or he had chosen somebody over me. >> rose: or he needed trump for ratings and all those things. >> but that wasn't true. roger and i spoke every day for over an hour at times. and he wanted to make sure i was okay. he wanted to, you know, touch base on what he was thinking and what was happen on his end. he was hearing from trump a lot. >> rose: almost every day. >> yeah, i'm sure they were talking a lot. and he just wanted to make sure that i was okay with what he was thinking about how to handle it. i mean we were-- we were eyeball to eyeball on it. because neither one of us wanted any sort of a war with donald trump. you know, and we didn't think that benefitted the channel. we didn't think it benefitted me. and we don't think it benefitted donald trump.

and i think donald trump would say that now. so we just sort of wanted to move forward, you know, put a period at the end of it. he was obviously up set. that's fine. that's, you know, he's running for president. it's not a fun business and there are going to be ups and downs. i know he considered that a down. so we just wanted to forge forward and try to put it behind us. not pour any more fuel on that fire. >> rose: dow want him back on your show? >> i'm sure will come back on eventually. >> rose: sooner rather than later? >> well, it has to be just right. i think that will be a big moment. don't you think that will be a big television moment, right? >> rose: of course it will. >> so i think we have to handle that just right. i can't just pop him up there any night like i would any other presidential candidate. because people will be anticipating that exchange. and i want to ask him all the things people want me to ask him, you know, like why did you get so up set. what do you think about how it went in the days after, any regrets on it. you know, i think we both know the answer to that. no. but that's fine. i mean i think it would be fascinating for he and i to

have that exchange. >> rose: well, what prevents you from having it now? >> nothing. i just-- i think i will know when the moment is right. >> rose: has it been tough for you? >> no, i've been okay. >> rose: i mean lots was said, or certainly some of fox viewers who have loved you, had mixed emotions about this. >> uh-huh. i understand that. i think that politics makes people feel so fired up. and they love the candidates they love. and it's very easy to hate and demonize the media. and that's okay by me. that's the job i'm in, right that is what i have chosen. so you have to be able to take some punches. >> rose: what was the toughest part for you? >> the most bizarre part was just being the news. as opposed to covering the news. >> rose: and the things that were being said by donald. >> i mean they were not pleasant. i'm not going to lie. that wasn't pleasant to read. but that, it's a tough business-- business, politics is a tough business and journalism has become a very tough business.

>> rose: tell me about it. >> an you have got to have a thick skin. you know, and i-- let me tell you. my mother told me early on and it was reinforced many times over the years. there was a time when i moved to new york city when i was young. and just out of law school and i wasn't liking it. and i was feeling sorry for myself. and i complained for a day and she let me. i complained for a second time and she let me. and i complained on the third day and she said hey, stop playing the victim. not attractive. >> rose: yes, exactlyness. >> i believe that, nobody wants to hear about-- are. >> rose: she has had a significant influence on you, your mother. >> very much so. she has had the greatest influence on me of anyone in my life. >> rose: you chose to not respond. >> right. >> rose: why? >> because we weren't in a war with donald trump. you know, he was up set with us. we weren't up set with him. i mean it was-- again, we just wanted to forge forward. and there was no reason to have a dust-up with a presidential candidate whom we needed to cover. i mean he's the subject of

our news coverage. so understanding those dynamics, there was no up side to saying anything more than i did. >> rose: and what is the status of this relationship with fox today? >> i think it's pretty good. >> rose: is's back. >> what is it, october 7th. i hi it is pretty good today. >> rose: but also there is the question of the debate itself. i'm told you guys really prepared hard. >> very much so. >> rose: that this was-- everybody knew and had shaped and redefined the questions that they were going to ask. you know the order of the questions. you knew who was going to ask what questions. >> yes. >> rose: this was a roger ailes organized debate. >> well, he was, you know, he is the chairman at fox news. but roger had nothing to do with the actual debate prep or the questions. nothing to do with that. >> rose: each of you prepared your own questions. >> absolutely. >> rose: . >> we did it out of a bucket. there were six buckets an each of us had two buckets, for example, immigration and terrorism, i had, and socialists i had. but then in addition to your two buckets we each had a few dan account-- candidates

that we had to ask a tough elect ability question, that was the opening round. we had to go through the ten guys up there and come up with the toughest question we could on why he was potentially unelectable. either in the primary contest or if he became the nominee, in the general election contest. that's how the question to trump was borne. i was thinking if he becomes the nominee and hillary clinton is likely to be the benj cratic nominee, what is she going to do. how is she going to come at him. and that's really why i asked what i asked. i think that's how is she going to come at him among other ways. but that is why i asked that question. it wasn't a statement about megyn kelly's believes, it was a statement about what hillary clinton is going to do. >> rose: does ben carson and donald trump and carly fee rana fiorina on the republican side say something about whether the country is in terms of so-called outsiders so, called nonpoliticians. >> certainly the republicans. >> rose: well, on the democratic side you have person-year sanders who was

not known as much as she is, and seems to be up in part a protest vote. >> but the numbers on the democratic side if you look at the polls don't support the desire for an outsider as much as they do on the gop side. i think it's two-thirds of the republican voters plus, i mean, it's in the mid of 0s say we want someone not only-- mid 60, someone who is not of washington but who has no political experience. they're fed up. i mean they really are. mad as hell and not wanting to take it anymore. >> rose: fed up with what has happened in washington. >> right. >> rose: from gridlock, both parties, the inability to solve the country's problems. >> i think it's one of the things people love about trump and carson. which is they don't use a politician's filter. as i said in that question. they talk more like people you know. they don't couch everything with five outclauses. they say things that get them into trouble, which, okay, that causes problems for them. but you get a feeling of sincerity or authenticity that you might not get with

a pottished politician. >> rose: and they're nod editing themselves, obviously. >> clearly. >> rose: are you in your own mind different than your fellow fox anchors? are you somehow a blend? are you somehow more independent? are you somehow in your mind different, you know there is o reilly, there is hannity, and there is kelly. >> well, i'm certainly different than o reilly and hannity in many ways. i mean they are opinion guys. so bill will go out there and call for kate's law and say this needs to be drafted in the wake of-- wafk the murder of kate shinely. and hannity is an open avowed conservative who stands for conservative principleses and has been talk about that for year, i'm not an idea log nor an opinion maker. i'm a news person, a journalist. >> rose: do we even know what party you belong to. >> i said you i am a independent. i have voted both democrat and republican. i just don't feel idea logically bound to either side. >> rose: but is that important to you.

you want the viewers to know that i'm different. >> it's not important to me that people know that i'm an independent. it's important to me that they see the program and they feel that. and they don't feel that i have ply thumb on the scale for either side. it's incidental what my party label is. but i do think not being an idealogue has helped me in my journalism career. take brit human, for example, one of my mentors. he is a conservative guide. >> rose: former white house correspondent during the peter jennings year. he is a conservative guy and always has been. but you could never tell any of his political leanings when he was reporting the news as a straight news journalist. my goal is to go out there and have people not know. i mean i've had many republicans say, yeah, we love your republican principleses. i say you assume too much. and many liberals pull me aside and say we know you are one of us. and i say, you assume too

much. so it helps me because i really-- i can call out either side. i feel no a leerjance to any of these politicians. t the difficulty thatsed hillary clinton is having? does that go to the demand today for some sense of making sure that the voter appreciates your authenticity, makes sure that the voters can see the real person in their own judgement? >> she is absolutely struggling with that. that's clear. has been. she's trying to turn it around right now. i think-- . >> rose: saturday night live. >> i think with some success, that was a great appearance. but she really hurt herself when she stayed quiet for so long on that e-mail scandal. and i think she really thought it was going to go away. and she made some attempts to dismiss it as right-wing conspiracy which was complete nonsense. and you know, "the new york times" was breaking a lot of the stories. and i think she hurt herself, those honesty numbers that she is suffering under right now, the low polling numbers on those i think are directly linked to that. i know a lot of people who

know her very well, who spent time with her weekly. and to a person they say she is very charming. she is funny, she has a big personality. she's sincere. she likes to have a cocktail. she likes to tell dirty jokes this is what people have told me. up until this recent, you know, stint of interviews, she doesn't show any of that. now it's not like you can go out there and crack dirt jokes and swing back the vodka martinies out on the campaign trail, although it might not hurt. >> rose: does she have a point when she takes on kevin mccarthy in saying in a new political ad look it, i was right. they were only doing this for political advantage. they are taking pride in the fact that they think she have drove my numbers down because of the benghazi investigation and all the knows-- noise about the e-mail. >> who would not have expected her to pounce on that statement of his. >> rose: but he said it. >> that's my point. he-- he sunk himself. i mean that -- >> what a thing to say. and we had tray gowdy on the

show, chairing up that benn gazee committee. and you can see the disappointment in his face. whatever your feelings are, i think trey gowdy generally believes what he is doing is fair an impartial and not a witch-hunt against her. and here you have this guy kevin mccarthy who openly suggests it was done for political reasons to bring her poll number downs, he has walked it back, apologized, but it doesn't change ma people heard. it sounded like an admission. >> rose: what was in his head at the time he said it. >> right. so i don't blame her for exploiting that comments by kevin mccarthy and i'm sure that's not the last we heard of it. >> rose: dow believe in fact that there was an effort by republicans to use benghazi simply to get at hillary clinton. >> i think so, yes, some have done that. but i also think benghazi is a legitimate issue. and i think they're right to probe it. >> rose: what is the legitimate issue. >> if they want to get to the bottom of exactly what was done that night and who

was where, and what commands were being given, and what decisions were being made, so they can figure out why four americans were murdered, then they should do that. and clearly these republicans do if the feel it's been done on a satz factry level. hillary clinton when she gives her testimony, i think that will be very eliminating and we'll hear more. i think out republicans did a terrible job the first time they had hillary. grandstanding and not asking questions as a lawyer, right. wasn't it just, it was a waste of time. no one wants to look at you puffing your chest out trying to prove how tough you are, you are irritating. ask a question. you have got hillary clinton sitting there. so they blew that. and now this next time maybe they will ask more probing -- probe difficult questions an finally put a period at the end of this. >> the love of tough questions comes from where. just the sense of being a prosecutor, from the sense of being a kid who always wanted to know answers? >> i just think they're more interesting than a bunch of softballs. and in part it is borne of necessity on my show.

so i will have most of my segments are five minutes long, if i'm lucky. most of the time i have-- . >> rose: five minutes. >> yeah, five minutes with any given guest. >> rose: so you have to go to one point. >> and nine times out of ten you done do that, nine times out of ten you try to get three items of news this there. you cannot go in depth. so what you try to do is just go right to the place that hurts. if there is anything controversial, you can't build up to it. they there can be no wining and dining and drinks at the cocktail table. you go for it. >> having said that, let's do this. the one question you would like to ask of these people, ben carson. >> well, i just had him on the show last night, we talked about his-- . >> rose: i read the transkrimentd. >> we talked about his comments on advising people in a shooting situation what they should do, how they could handle it better. >> rose: he basically will says that he was thought talking about those victims. he was basically suggest and attitude for the future. >> yes. i understand that. >> rose: and dow believe him or not. do you think he was trying to say these victims would

have been better off if-- that's a hard thing to say of families of victims. i think you pointed that out. >> to me ben carson seems like an earnest man, i take him at his word. >> rose: the question you were trying to ask was -- >> that he was trying to plant a seed for people. >> rose: that is seg his explanation. >> you askinging me, not long after i asked the question i really wanted to ask him, which is why should the nation trust you to be its commander in chief when you yourself have made so lot it study up on. have don't we need a leader who can hit the ground running, especially on foreign policy from day one. that was my opening question to him during the debate. which people forgot about because they were thinking about the other one. >> rose: that's right. >> and i still think that is a question a lot of people want him to answer. >> rose: is that a question you want to ask of donald trump as well? >> yes, i mean that is a legitimate area of inquirery for him too. one thing trump has over-- . >> rose: on the other hand when you look at some the political disasters and some of the foreign policy disasters of this country, whether it was vietnam, as

many perceive it to be or whether it was iraq, and all these cases, they are a difference of opinion but the pas jort opinion seems to be, they were in many cases, some of the most seasoned politicians around. >> uh-huh. he says i'm going to get people to advice me. >> rose: does he have a point? >> he may. i mean i can't tell you. i do think that the world right now is very complex. and look at the situation in syria, and those who were aligned and who are not aligned in trying to figure out that moreas. i do think-- more ass to have a working knowledge of the var yours parties d that is not to say he can't learn it, and carson's answer, i'm a very smart man, that is righter than you, kelly. he didn't say that but he said it with his eye, and i know. he was suggesting i can figure this out. >> rose: one question for hillary clinton. >> you issued a memo directing your employees not to use personal e-mail for state department business. why didn't you follow your own mandate.

>> rose: good. jeb bush. >> i mean, you know, as you showed in that clip, we made news with jeb bush on the iraq question. and i think that is still saddled around him. i would have to think about that one. >> rose: he said he misunderstood the question, do you think he misunderstood the question. >> i thought he did in the moment. and i will tell you that we want back to the campaign after the interview and said dow want to you ever a a clarification. we're going to air it this evening. dow want to-- it may have been he misunderstood and if you want us to clarify that on the air and say we went back to you, we'll do that, and we chose not to. and then what we saw was he floundered with it for four days after that interview. not able to really answer it clearly. >> rose: is one of the surprises of this campaign season that jeb bush has not been as good as many people expected him to be. >> i think so. i think so i don't think-- jeb bush does not present as some gifted politician. and he doesn't have the way of speaking that immediately connects with people. but you know, his message

has been i am a conservative person. and governor. and i have a record that will prove that to you. you don't need somebody who can dazzle you with fancy rhetoric. just look at what i did in the state of florida. so i understand that message. but in today's day an age, you need more than that. you do need a little razzle-dazzle am you have to connection. >> rose: carly fiorina. >> i think that carly's probably going to v you know, a lot more trouble when it comes to her time at hp. >> rose: there is an increasing-- about that. >> because less's moving up on the polls am i will tell you, that will take some homework the best question to her. because if you are like me and you don't play that much attention to economic news and the stock market and so on. she can-- she can dazzle you with her answer on hewlett

packer about what happened with the growth and we tripled this, and doubled that. and i think the average person would say you got fired. like i know you said all that great stuff but they fired you. so how great could you have been. that is kind of my way of presenting-- but i think it's worth a deep dive. >> rose: you nope the people who fired her said he supports her. >> but not all. i think it's worth a deep dive into those claims that she is making. and then presenting her way challenge on those. >> rose: then there's joe biden. >> vice president joe biden. >> rose: do you think he's in. >> i'm going to say yes but i base that on nothing other than-- . >> rose: that's exactly my answer. i have no reporting on this, but i hear from enough people that thinks he will do it in the end because as someone said to me yesterday, he's been thinking about the presidency, because it was the top rung of the game that he was in. >> right. >> rose: for 40 years. >> he's run many times. >> rose: and he's seen it up

close now as vice president. >> that doesn't generally make you want it less. >> rose: exactly. makes you want it more. >> right. >> rose: and secondly, it's never been more opportune for him. >> right. this movement is being born right now to get him in. they think he's the-- . >> rose: run joe run. >> the answer, right. but having said that, i understand, you know, the death of a child, i cannot imagine. and i am shall did --. >> rose: the death of three quarters. >> i know. >> rose: . >> i can believe that he's not through that. and his struck sell sincere with whether he can give a run for the presidency all that it would require of him. given the mental state he must be in. >> rose: i promise you i would ask this of a man as well as a woman. but do you wish you had more time with your kids? >> yes, hely. i have no hesitation in

answering that. >> rose: because putting them to dead is a great thing, i'm told. >> it depends, it depends on the night, trust me. yes. >> rose: having the last voice before they go to sleep. >> yes, but i get them up in the morning and i get the first voice. and i get a lot of time with them during the day, at least pie little one now, my problem is my kids are aging now so they are in school full-time, may older ones. >> rose: what do they come home saying about mother, do they come home saying guess what they say about you in the schoolyard. >> they have no idea. they are not immersed in this world, they just mow me as mom and want to tell me about their days and that is what i want to talk to with them. they came out with me. inwith one sdam with me to an interview with mitt romney. and my daughter is coming with me to the fortune most powerful women. >> rose: to be interviewed. >> naturally,she is is the star of her preschool. yeah, i am going to be interviewed. but it's fun. i take them with me when i can. so we have a train ride together and get to go out to lunch and we just get exthat time. but i will tell you, i like any other working parent

have wrestled with the balance issue. i am just now getting to the point where i am releasing myself from the guilt i felt early on, in part because someone very wise just phrased in a way that i thought yes, that's exactly right, where he said, he spoke of working very hard and knowing that glorious feeling of accomplishment. and i think so often in our society we guilt parents, in particular moms, we guilt them for wanting that. and we suggest to them that they shouldn't and all they should want to do is be mothers. and my truth is i want to do both. i love plottering my children. i love being with them. they're the greatest source of enjoyment and happiness in my life. but i also love doing my job. and i go and i do my job and i bring that job home in a way that energizes me and in the home and my children and they know mom is out there in the world doing a job she does, not just for money to pay the bills, but because it excites her, invigorates

her an stimulates her intellectually. and that they too can get a job like this when they get older. >> rose: you are seen as a strong woman, a woman whose very good at her craft. do you like that idea that young women are looking at megyn kelly and saying that's who i would like to be? she's respected. she's strong. she has a remarkable presence? she loves what she does. >> yes. >> rose: but it does not transcend, i mean, a sense when i have lots of friends who are also strong women, and they want to be constantly making them, and helping us remember how much we need to do with respect to women and equal pay. and you saw what happened at the academy awards. >> right, right. >> rose: why are you on that frontier. >> i am not really an issues advocate when it comes to women or anything else. >> rose: even pay. >> no, no, it's not appropriate given my roll. it's really notment i don't speak out on those things.

i'll let other people take those positions. >> rose: because i have to cover those stories, i have to cover them objectively and fairly and i shouldn't weigh in on that on a personal matter. but having said that i'm all for female empowerment. and not at the expense of men. i don't-- i don't like the women who stand up for the empowerment of women at the expense of men. they try to demonize men and try to suggest men all want to keep us down. which is one of the reasons why i don't like that label feminist. so my friend sheryl sandberg tells me i am a feminist and ri eject the label because i have had a bad experience with it. but i-- . >> rose: what was the bad experience? >> just in covering the news, i see somebody like dollar-- gloria steinham, you're only a feminist had inn her world if you believe what she believes f you are against abortion, you are not a feminist. if you don't stand for all of her principleses, look at what she did and what many on the far left did in the

feminist cause to somebody like sarah palin. and i understand sarah palin, right, i get t okay. but, but, here is-- . >> rose: i get it. >> i'm just saying, right, i do. but she's running for president. and where were they when they were asking sarah palin whether she could be both-- she was running for vice president, whether she could be both vice president and a mother to her children. no one asked that of barack obama. that was a sexist question f that had ever been asked of hillary when she was younger and raising chelsea, now would have been up and arms, steinham would have been march on washington saying this has got to stopment crickets when it happened to a conservative woman. and steinham actually came out and said she's less of a woman than some men i know. i mean, they tried to take your womanhood away from you if you are -- if you don't walk in lock step with their beliefs. that is what i mean by the feminism that i reject. and i think those feminists

would be well served to be a little more open minded when it comes to left and right in this country so they could get more women into the fold. >> rose: what is it you-- what influential -- influences your life most today? >> family. >> my family, my husband. >> rose: religion. >> some, i'm not a particularly religious person. i was raised catholic and still am. right now we go to the methodist church which is right by ourselve. >> rose: an efficiency question. >> exactly. it's very hard. i have three young children which has been an experience, very unlike the catholic church which is very regimented and the-- i mean my own life moodo, charlie has been, to settle for more. and that was borne of a dr. phil saying where he said the only difference between you and someone you envy su settled for less. and i try to apply that to everything i do and stand for. you know, my two-year-old

has a much more efficient way of saying it which is i want more! >> rose: or where's mine. >> i want more. but i mean it in terms of everything. i want more-- i want to do better as a pefernlt i want to do better as a professional. i want to do better as a mom. i want to do better as a citizen. i want to keep challenging myself to just do better and be better. and the same goes for our country. an that's one of the reasons why i love the microphone i've been given. you know, by my boss because it gives you that opportunity. on all those fronts it gives you that opportunity. >> rose: how much dow miss jon stewart. >> not at all. not at all, no. i always said i enjoyed him when he was making fun of other people. but when he was making fun of me, not so much. >> rose: was it like a scalpel? >> sometimes. when i was yoirning, in particular. because i didn't know whether he was damaging me, you know. was this going to hurt my career. >> rose: go ahead. >> i was just wondering like wow, how much power does he have. is this shall did -- i felt

those bits we do were very unfair and were taken out of context and sliced and diced in a way that posed a false message. but that's fine. that is what he does. but then you know that some people are taking it seriously. and even as gospel. but over time i came to see that the answer to my question was, no, it's to the going to hurt you, no, it's to the going to do any damage. you'll be just fine. and as it turns out i think the fox news channel won that war. >> rose: why dow say that? >> because he spent ten years on the air trying to bring us down and he failed. >> rose: and what's the evidence of that. >> he has spoken about how-- . >> rose: his goal was to bring fox news down. >> about how he was sick and tired of having to watch tapes and try to find the light in the darkness and he never felt codo it. and-- . >> rose: he felt sick because he failed to take fox down. >> yes. in so many words. and i mean if you just watch his program, it was clear. but in any event. >> rose: he's gone. >> i'm fine. he's fine. and fox is fine. >> rose: it's great to you have here.

>> thank you. >> rose: congratulations on two years. >> great to be here, thank you. >> rose: back in a moment. stay with us. >> rose: we turn now to politics and the republican party, new polls from quinnipiac university have done all trump leading in ohio, pennsylvania, ben carson secretary place in all three states, news comes as house republicans are in the process of choosing a new speaker, kevin mccarthy is widely considered the front-runner. he faces challenge from jason chaffetz of utah and daniel webster of florida. republicans plan to set on a nominee on thursday. a final vote is set for the end of october. joining me is robert costa, a national political reporter for "the washington post". earlier this week esad sat down with done all trump for an expense-- extensive interview. it ran under the headline donald trump plopped his secretary act. i'm pleased to have him back at this table, welcome. >> thank you, charlie. >> at one time colleague of mine on this show. >> 2006 intern. >> tell me where done all

trump is today, both in terms of his campaign and in terms of his mind and finally in terms of his plan. >> well, we wanted to trump tower, my colleagues, and he really does care about these polls. does not have a pollster inside of his campaign. and i said to him, mr. trump are going to bring on a pollster. he said i just read the public polls, he has them piled on his desk, goes through line by line with a you blue marker. he really cares about his standing in the race. he will remain donald trump. he's to the going to have a second act in terms of his style. what's changing for trump right now is the operation of his campaign. hiring more in will the early states, moving beyond the early states for ballot access and delegates. and the biggest change he is will start to bye television ads, he has been reluctant to do so up to this point. >> rose: this is a self-fpbsd campaign. >> almost entirely. >> rose: he is almost, it would be for him a bit wrong for him to go raise money now because he's made such a point that people who pay

and raise money for candidates are in some way corrupting. >> even if he wanted to build a national financial network, that is the core of his appeal. he makes this case, i've seen him do it many, many times on the campaign trail that he can't be bought. and that was a core appeal for ross perrott when he ran in 1992. there is a sense of a billionaire without can't be bought t has a blue collar populist appeal across the country. i've seen that resonate with voters beyond the usual conservative spirit. trump, he has some super pac that are supporting him but doesn't have a financial network. will probably put 20 million into the campaign am we'll see how much he actually spends but he's willing to put his own money in. >> rose: is he going to change in any way in terms of style, in terms of how he criticizes other candidates, in terms of his bombast on the campaign trail and during the debates. >> he still wants to be the essential rit. so he will be on twitter. he wants to be accessible to the media. but what was so interesting for me to sit down with trump, i sat down with him muiple times in this campaign. this was the most contemplative i've seen him,

the most thoughtful, in this post summer period. when the cameras are off, trump is different. trump tones down the act. he's not acting out. and he said, he actually sees the nomination within sight that is srk he really didn't think would be possible when he entered the race in the early summer. >> rose: he didn't ent tore win? >> he entered it to inw i think he also wanted to make a point. he wanted to be in the arena. he thought about it in 2011, 2012, didn't do it he is at a stage in his life he wanted to do it i think he's also a realist. he was a long shot coming in. he said it took him awhile to get to yes. but it moved at such a rapid pace. >> rose: and what do you think? and what do those people that you talk to the political proceeds, the real smart strategists think about his chances of getting the nomination? and what does very to do to to insurance that. >> the rival campaign have changed their perspective on him almost 360 degrees there is a sense that trump is a pure political talent when it comes to instinct. when it comes to connecting with the republican base.

knowing that trade would be a key issue, when he saw immigration become an issue in the summer to ride that wave, and to keep perpetuating that issue, that showed political talent. that is what the washington insiders say to me all the time. that trump is better than they thought he is but they still believe he doesn't have the commitment to put in millions of dollars to sustain himself january to february. and when the early caw suses and primaries start. >> rose: do you believe that? >> i think we have to see. i think trump wants to be in it. he sees the nomination there. his campaign manager says they will go all the way to cleveland, all the way to the convention, but he's not building anything like hillary-- hillary clinton's campaign. if you go to brooklyn there are 250 people working for secretary clinton, trump has a dozen people in trump tower and a note sent for the apprentice. that is his headquarters, so he has a large grass roots network but that's about it. >> will he lay out position papers as part of a quote secretary act? >> he will. and he said one core thing is veterans affairs for him which is interesting because the mccain episode in the summer when he went after

senator mccain deterred him for a bit. now he wants to get back in a positive standing with veterans. but he really wants to come back to what he think is his core issue, china currency manipulation, trade. he thinks that is actually the core theme of his campaign, not imgrapes. erode immigration, now he wants to pivot back. >> that is what is interesting is he rides these issuesness. >> he does. >> rose: he picks them because he knows that they have the deep political appeal to certain sectors an certain sectors of the republican party. the birthing issue, immigration as he expresses it. >> that's right. >> rose: he knows they are inflammatory and political dynamite and yet they can give you a start to build some sustainability. >> he seeks the dynamite. and that's what makes him cover it different than almost anyone. most campaigns have a policy rollout. they want to have this thing for september. this other thing for october. trump has his a tena up constantly. if he saw something tomorrow that was a different issue, he would go with it. and that's just how he is. he's not a normal politician.

he's operating to go with the crowd in a sense. and to be trump. >> but he also seems to suggest and i'm asking, that he lives by the polls and he will die by the polls. it's a poll show him sinking, he will get out. >> that is true. and i think when chulk todd asked the question on "meet the press" a few days ago, there was an interpretation that trump was maybe thinking about getting out of the race. he said if the follow goes down, i will get out. when i pressed trump on this he said he's just trying to honest but he is obsessed with the polls. i have never seen a politician, i know they read the polls but trump has them presented to him every day, piled up on his desk. and he sees it in a way, he compared it, he pointed to the wall. he said look up to the variety cover i'm on. he said those are the television ratings for the apprentice. he said i watched the ratings when i was doing the a presentician the same as the polls. if you are not at the top, you are not doing well and you have to a juchlts he sees it is the same as ratings. >> rose: ego. >> huge ego but there is a confidence there that i think has propelled him

forward. i think his ego rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. >> rose: it is we musement. >> he is very bemused. trump, when i flew on the plane with him a couple of times, when you follow him on the campaign trail he almost sometimes steps outside of himself. i remember the home in mobilee, alabama. he tack if the crowd and was amazed himself at what this has become. this was someone with a very small operation has become this movement, a phenomenon. >> rose: so today he's leading in the states. what-- i mean is there a trend line though? i have had people say to me, you know, it's more like a tube, an inner tube in which the air is binning to seep out. do you buy that idea at all? >> i buy the idea that the polls are narrowing and trump sees that as well as anyone. when you look at the latest polls you just exammed, he's still leading so this is a phenomenon that maybe is having some air come out of the balloon. but trump does have a strategy. he believes the outsider, whether carly fiorina, ben carson or himself will win iowa, not an evangelical candidate. if an outsider get pros

pelled out of there. they will go to new hampshire. he thinks because he is libertarian on social issues, he is antiabortion but he thinks new hampshire could be a safe state for him. he looks ahead to the southern states that is why he keeps going to alabama, florida, georgia, those march 1st primaries, if he could om out of the first three, iowa, new hampshire, south carolina in the top tier, that southern primaries. >> rose: he is likely to do that. >> he is. >> rose: in the top tier. >> he is. >> rose: so with that he could roll into the south. >> that's right. >> rose: and if you roll into the south and win those nine to 12 southern states and go into supertuesday in a very strong position. >> rose: what is his vulnerability? >> plane. i think the biggest vulnerability for him is temperment. as much as his personality and police call a tena are his strength, he can become easily distracted. i have seen him become tired on the campaign trail. he is not a politician who knows about how to ride it in the sense of energy. he has had some low moments where he has burst out on cable news.

he does a lot of press and when dow a lot of press you put yourself out there. we're fine with it at the "washington post" in the press. but i think trump, he's struggling right now to realize, okay, i've had an amazing summer this is what he talked about for an hour. this summer is unbelievable in his mind. >> rose: it was his -- >> trump summer. but there is a lot of time between now and january, february. it's a lot of time in politics. a lot of time generally. >> rose: how about women? >> carly fiorina, has done a lot for the party. i know the chairman reince priebus and other party officials are happy she was on that debate stage in simi, valley. i was at a trump focus group recently, women have real concerns about trump an his message and if he is the nominee he will have to close that empathy back. that is why he told me will take his wife and daughter out on the trail. >> rose: to create a sense him as a family man, respect for women, have them speak on his behalf. >> rose: and where will he take stands that will go against party orthodoxy. >> he is not a wall street republican even though he is of the business community. he is against corporate

inversions on trade. he's really not a traditional supply side conservative. his tax plan is very different than a traditional republican tax plan am you see from a nominee. it cuts corporation rates and individual rates but in a more populist fashion. on immigration, he's not what the chamber of commerce crowd. he's running as an outsider, as a populist. and he's not really running an idea logical campaign. >> rose: you have done so well since you left this program as an intern. thank you for coming. >> thank you, charlie. >> rose: thank you for joining us, see you next time. >> for more about this program and earlier episodes, visit us yen line at pbs.org and charlie rose.com captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

funding for charlie rose is provided by american express. additional funding provided by: the and by bloomberg, a procedure of of multimed why news and information services worldwide. >> rose: tomorrow gwyn iverel city sits down with attorney genera

- this couch is for people who want to feel better and improve the quality of their lives. asking for help is a sign of strength, not weakness. you are not stuck with the brain you have. you can make it better, and we can prove it. [cheers and applause] female announcer: "the washington post" wrote that by almost any measure, dr. daniel amen is the most popular psychiatrist in america. he is a double board-certified psychiatrist who's written ten "new york times" best-selling books including the mega best-seller,