>> rose: welcome to the program. we begin this evening with a conversation about food with the great alice waters, fanny singer and calvin trillin. >> it's just a matter of coming back to our senses. i mean this is the way that we've done it since the beginning of civilization. and somehow it's been lost in the fast food culture in this country. and we are doing really crazy things. we're feeding ourselves that isn't good for us. >> rose: we continue about talking about the new periscope with kayvon beykpour. >> we had this inkling what would become periscope and we built a stereotype. it was a reverse google map. we wanted to drop a pin in the

world and see what's happening. photography isn't effective as a medium as opposed to what's happening now. we didn't want to have a live video company and that was the means to the ends. >> rose: we conclude by talking to the actor peter sarsgaard about his new film experimenter. >> there are several realities going on in this specific experiment. you have the person who thinks they're electrocuting someone else. that's the reality of the valid reality. it's true to them. the actor in the room have another reality. stanley who is o the other side of a two-way mirror is another reality. this isn't a traditional biopick it's like a box of mirrors. >> rose: all about foods with alice waters, calvin trillin and fanny singer, periscope with kayvon beykpour and peter sarsgaard when we continue.

>> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: american express. >> rose: additional funding provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: alice waters has changed the way we think about ask the way we eat food in this country. she opened her renown restaurant over 40 years ago much its emphasis on local ingredients help galvanized the slow grow movement. she had the school yard in 2005, teaches children the importance of growing, cooking and sharing food. president barack obama awarded her the national humanities

medal. she returns to this table with her daughter fanny singer who collaborsated and her long time friend and fellow food lover calvin trillin. he's been a regular contributor to the new yorker magazine since 1963 and is of course a great friend of this program. i'm pleased to have all of them at this table. welcome. great to see you my dear. >> thank you. >> rose: and you sir. >> thank you. >> rose: this is a friendship here, isn't it? >> alice and fanny, yes. alice and fanny and me. >> rose: yes. >> yes. we've known each other for a long time. >> rose: born of a love for food or born out of how you two came together and we like each other. >> well i met alice a long time ago. and then she married the brother of a good friend of mine. and so we saw even more of her. and then fanny came along. and that improved the situation. >> rose: what's in my pantry,

my dear? >> all sorts of wonderful. >> rose: something new to say to us. >> i guess what i want to say is that the easiest way to cook something quickly and delicious is to have certain things in your pantry ready. and so i always have good olive oil and vinegar. >> rose: good olive oil. >> good olive oil and vinegar. i always spend money on good olive oil. but i also like spices and i like to have, you know, a really good pasta and i like to have something that i made myself. and so this book is about the things that really make my cooking my own. that's how i think about it. >> rose: do you know what's great about this book is the illustrations. where did you have dinner last

night, can you tell me? >> well, yes, i can tell you. we were on the 51st floor of the bank of america building and they were doing a benefit. for part of the food and wine festival. >> rose: right. and they provided the menu for the dinner. >> they asked us to do the menu and we brought chef's and david tanis from new york and we cooked for a hundred people. fanny and i had the pleasure of talking about the book. and i think they raised a lot of money. >> rose: you're close to a lot of bankers. were you there. >> no. i do have a theory on banking. that the melt down 2008 was caused by smart people going to wall street. in my era, the lower third of

the class, and they were pleasant people or not stupid or anything but they couldn't have done credit to false swaps. they didn't know the math. so that's pretty much my connection with wall street. >> rose: a lot of people invested wheels of power on wall street and all of a sudden we have derivatives nobody could imagine. >> -- things you couldn't start with exactly. >> rose: going crazy. >> but i don't know anything about wall street. >> rose: you do know something about food. >> well a little bit. i don't cook. well, i cook, i don't cook in new york. i cook in nova scotia in the summer. >> rose: is that true? >> yes. i have between three and eight dishes depending how you count. whether there is stove involvement to make it a dish. some of them don't.

like i have pate. we go way back. >> rose: you cook the mackerel. >> and smoke it. i buy it smoked. since we go way back, charlie, i'll tell you the ingredients to smoked mackerel. >> rose: you can make smoked mackerel. >> exactly in a cuisinart. >> you can smoke it yourself. people who improvise on top of the stove. >> we could do that. and then on national holidays and birth days i might put a little mayonaise in it. >> there are some preserve dish recipes in this book which is something we can make. >> i want you to know, i did not contribute any recipes to this book. >> although he did contribute a recipe i will never forget in an intimate book my mom put together when i was going to

college. it was our friends recipe. our family friends added to this called fanny's survival book cook. his recipe was scrambled eggs that stick to the pan every time. >> that's what i used to feed my girls for breakfast, scramble eggs, split them. then one time they came downstairs and they were holding hands and they said we're never eating your scrambled eggs again. i said what is this bolsheviks, and they never have. >> rose: when you cook scrambled eggs what kind of oil do you use. >> i use olive oil. and i think it's too delicious. >> maybe you can get a job in food. >> rose: that's exactly what i do. i cook scrambled egg. >> i put a little bit of cumin salt on it. this is one of the really hard recipes in the book. >> rose: i don't know what cumin salt is. >> you know what cumin seed is.

>> rose: yes. >> you just put a pan on the fire and you toast the cumin seed and you pound them and you add salt to it. i pound them into mortar and pest sl. >> i love reading the book where alice comes home from a trip and she opens her pantry it gives her such comfort what's there. i have kind of the opposite feeling. i come home and i open my refrigerator and there's a bunch of beer and i think where am i, the sae house. i don't even recognize it as home. >> rose: before we talk more about food, the national humanities, that's the a big deal as you know. the president, she was celebrating the bond between the ethical and the edible. did you write this? >> i did not write this but i think it's very true because

alice, when -- could have built sort of an empire or a series of brand extensions. that's what people do and instead she put it back into things like the edible school yard and sustainable agriculture so i think it's a good model. i actually think she deserved the national -- >> rose: absolutely. the president said in closing remarks that she had promised to cook for him but nothing unethical that would violate rules such as gifts. have you cooked for the president yet. >> i have cooked for the president, not at -- for a number of benefits, i organized and was part of the team. >> rose: what are big benefits anyway. >> i never understood that. >> rose: to buy another yacht? what is it. >> i think it's kind of crazy the kind of money they need to

raise to become president. i think it's completely crazy. >> rose: it's in fact a money on politics. >> exactly. but i look forward to the time that he does come. >> i have to say one thing that when fanny stays with me in new york because she lives in england and she visits me and loves my pantry. it's at least a long time acquaintance but she puts stuff in there. >> rose: we talk about the humanities and all the beautiful thing that are cultural experiences for us and lift our spirits and yet we've never really talked about food that way. food has always been like fuel and that's considered to be something that really lifts our spirits. and when food and agriculture are put together and or the

ribbon of nature, it brings us back to the table where a cultural conversation can happen. i agree with you totally. >> i believe in that. >> rose: every great meal i ever had was matched by a great conversation. >> that's very sad statistic that 85% of the kids in this country don't have one meal. with their family at the table. so it means that they're just out there grazing. and the conversations where you learn to pass the peas isn't happening anymore. it's very important to us that we make that happen in the schools. yes, completely. it's to change the food in the schools and bring the children around the table. i want to make school lunch an academic subject.

that's what i want to do. so you're eating, eating a tortilla and you're speaking spanish. >> rose: very good. >> or you're discussing the history of food. >> rose: this is alice waters educational philosophy. >> yes. and i think she's been educating people about restaurants too. when i first started traveling around the country, if you asked somebody where to eat, they would tell you what's call the fine dining restaurant, which i call the la maison on the top floor of some spinning building. someone puts her purse down here it goes halfway across the room. and a menu that tells you a lot about the food except it's been frozen for a year and-a-half. i always thought the continental trail ways bus company or something like that. and the chef there and the head

waiter was a guy who was hired to make you feel uncomfortable and not quite deserving. you were lucky to be there. and i think what alice and some other people do in the 60's was take that fine dining away. and plus in that restaurant, if they wanted to charge a little extra for something they would import it. >> rose: fine dining for her became the quality of the food. >> quality of the food and the people. and the fact it was sort of an egalitarian place and also local as opposed to imported. >> rose: all the great chefs do that now don't they. >> they do. >> rose: they copied you in that. you go to oslo for example, you have stuff around oslo. >> exactly. and copenhagen. >> rose: yes. copenhagen.

>> it's just a matter of coming back to our senses. i mean, this is the way that we've done it since the beginning of civilization. and somehow it's been lost in the fast food culture of this country. and we are doing really crazy things. we're feeding ourselves food that isn't good for us. >> rose: is your life today teacher rather than ... >> i think it is. >> i think cooking will always be but it's the kind of comfort, it's part of coming back in here, sort of routine at home, always learning to make something for yourself. it's certainly not the profession occupation that it used to be. but there's still, my mom is still present in terms of how the restaurant runs and the menus and the conversations that are happening with the cook. as far as what she's thinking about on a day-to-day basis it's sort of one track mind edible

education, edible school yard. i think it has become this kind of just passion that is all consuming. >> rose: was it hard for you to resist putting -- in las vegas. >> not hard to resist. >> as i say, those were all kind of brand extension restaurant and in a way it is very tempting. but alice went the other direction. and now the restaurant's in every city in american. or copy that stuff. the other thing that happen of course around the same time was society was shaken up enough so it was okay for a trust lawyer from denver if he was asked about his son saying he's great. he's a chef in san francisco. bull, -- well it used to be the was kind of a class problem

here. >> rose: it's a hard class to be a chef in san francisco than a trust lawyer in kansas city. >> not in kansas city. anything's better than kansas city. >> rose: do you cook off. >> i do. i cook all the time. that's why that was a natural process that i could imagine all of the thing, all of these rhesus -- recipes i've been working on this book. >> rose: who is samantha. >> she's my right arm. and we talk about food every morning and she's kind of an amazing cook herself. she collaborsated with me and she is in fact here in new york and organize the whole group that's cooking for this benefit. we did one last night and we're

doing one tonight. going from here to the benefit. >> rose: why don't you go to the benefit. >> you're invited. you're both invited. >> i'm not sure i want to eat in a bank. >> rose: what are you writing. >> putting together some pieces on race which i've done in the past which turns out to be more trouble than i thought. some of the piece has to be cut, i have to write an introduction. which one is going in. i thought it was like dipping into capital and just putting it in. i've done a book of children's poems that's going to come out in a year. >> rose: good you go out to eat every night. >> no. i somehow without cooking, of course i used to live in the village. my house has not moved but the

real estate people decide i live in the west village so i live in an area which is probably the capital of prepared food in the world. so i can always pick something up. i sometimes push the beer aside and find something in the back of the fridge. >> rose: i don't know the answer to this. >> i was trying to ask a question you didn't know the answer to. go ahead. >> rose: about food. i've forgotten now for a moment. >> i don't know the answer. >> rose: do you eat with the same passion. do you eat to live rather than live to eat. >> no, i do like to eat. but i'm, i never ate with as

much package as the book indicates because those are basically different experiences squeezed together so it looks like that's all i do is eat. and so i was never really that way. and also i have to admit, when i see like a review of a restaurant or something, i look at the bottom to see where it is. if it's on east 74th street or west 68th. >> rose: let me just tell. you live in midtown in manhattan, right near central park. isn't it getting better. >> certain things i have not experienced. i don't boycott. >> rose: what are they. >> what. >> rose: things you never experienced. >> there's a lot. you don't want to hear that. >> rose: no. it's great to have you here. the medal goes to you for the great love of this country for what you have made us understand and appreciate the food and

about its naturalness. it's the idea, this is what i really think. and i came from somewhere else and they were talking to me about a product. i'm like why, why do you spend so much. he said because the people who use this will know i cared. and the same thing is true about food. >> absolutely. >> rose: they will know you cared. >> they do know. >> rose: exactly. >> children, when they pick it and they book -- cook it, they all want to eat it. not just give it to somebody else. the other kids just appreciate that. very wonderful feeling that we all need to find together. connected to nature, connected to the table and really come

back to our senses. >> rose: people always comment about this table bonds it reminds them of a table in their own house. there are so many great memories of family come from around the table. >> in high school through the years, you have a couple high school kids it's like a soap opera. better than watching television. >> rose: great to see you, sir. >> great to you see, charlie. >> rose: we'll come back and talk about politics. i would love to know what you think about the big candidacy. >> it will take another big show for that. >> rose: thank you fanny. >> thank you so much. it's a pleasure. >> rose: the book is called my pantry. alice waters and fanny singer. making simple meals your own. we'll be right back. stay with us. >> rose: kayvon beykpour he is co-founder and ceo of periscope purchased by twitter. this app allows anyone to broadcast video in real time

anywhere in the world. he says the mission is to create the closest thing to a teleportation machine. large training platform changing the way we communicate and share our experiences. periscope and its peers have also come under scrutiny in their role for enabling the piracy of extra right. i welcome kayvon beykpour even though we met at another table. tell those who might not appreciate what periscope is and does, the app. >> periscope, yes, the app. mayor scope is the sym plus way to watch or start a live video broadcast. if you have an android or ipad anyone can watch and hear. if you're in the midst of a protest in baltimore or ferguson you can go live and share that with the world. if you're running on the beach with your dock and you want your friends and family to see you can go live. >> rose: i don't know if you

can do it on a plane but if you're on a train and you're sitting next to a remarkably interesting person, you can pull out your smart phone, and have a conversation. >> yes. >> rose: someone you might not see again at the end of the trip. and share with whoever wants to watch it. >> absolutely. >> rose: that's rather interesting. i mentioned the sale to twitter. why did you choose to sale. >> one of the things we thought was really interesting is the vision for, the vision and mission for periscope is actually very similar to twitter's. twitter i think is it's a really time pulse of what's happening around the world. that's what we want periscope to do. >> rose: real time is a key word. >> yes, that's a key word. it's a key word and the key pardon about that is that it's about the world. twitter's way, mechanical way of pleasuring that is through 10 characters through pictures and

video. periscope's video has live videos focused. that's one of the reasons why the idea on the partnership of twitter whatever that meant. >> rose: it enables you to do things you might not have been able to do right now on your own. >> well absolutely. just the brand recognition that twitter has alone i think is one of the reasons why we are where we are from the brand pervasiveness perspective. people all around the know periscope and are using periscope. i don't think we would have quite gotten there as quickly if we would have done this without twitter. >> rose: in the beginning you used images rather than video. >> the initial idea, when joe and i and my co-founder had this inkling of what payment periscope we built a simple prototype and it was pictures. it was almost like a reverse gag map. we wanted to drop a pin somewhere in the world and see a picture but still photography isn't as effective as a medium what's happening now like a live video. we didn't want to have a live video company for the sake of having a live video company. that was a means to the end. >> rose: how fast are you

growing. >> we're growing very rapidly. we reached over 10 million accounts. every day roughly 40 years worth of live broadcasts are watched. if you added up all the time that people spend watching live broadcast every day it's 40 years. the fact we launched eight months ago, we're really happy about that. it keeps us up all night making sure our servers don't on go down. >> rose: how did you solve the problem of -- >> we had a fantastic team. one of the our engineers is in wales. we spent a lot of time with the infrastructure. you have something nice, not hd but something good about the quality. >> rose: it tells you what can be done. >> in the sense of. >> rose: they can figure out

ways they can use payer -- mayr scope you can't imagine. >> that's true for twitter and every other sort of consumer application. >> rose: if it's not twitter they weren't thinking about being part of revolutions. >> no they wanted to build a communication pod. but users dictate how these evolve and it's certainly been true with mayor scope. we had our sense how people might use it but within the first day we were sag where we've gone we never thought of that. >> rose: tell us something interesting. >> one of the favorite ones, there's a clot of collaborative broadcast. that's say there's a graffiti artist. the graffiti artist will go live. the mission of the broadcast will be to collaboratively paint something with the audience. so the audience will say draw me a wall, draw me a blue sky draw me a rose, draw me a turtle. you have an artist, a craftsman responding to you. this piece of art is evolving over time. i see so many of those

broadcasts it's really fascinating. this morning i was sitting in my hotel room and i got my twitter feed started blowing up because apparently someone was doing a live broadcast drawing my face. which is something i've got to check this out. she was asking the audience what color should i paint his pants and shirts. he never wears red, use a neutral color. that interactive broadcaster viewer experience. even on television, you reach minutes of people. rarely the audience sitting at home has a chance to interact with the creation process. that to me is the imagine call of the medium likeness where you're bridging this gap. >> rose: i'll give you a small exam public i thought about. when i went to st. petersberg i went to the hermitage, i knew the director and had been there for 20 years and his father had been there for 20, 30 years. so he walked with me. we have a television camera through the museum. we looked at the paintings. it was a day which there were thousands of people in the

museum and we walked through and talked about the museum. it had an interesting quality of being real not packaged and sterile. i could have done that with a periscope. >> it would have been better on periscope. >> rose: y and people will understand it's not going to be perfect and you don't have time to edit and make the right cuts. it's going to be real. here we are at a museum and here's a man who can tell us everything we might want to know about the history of the place. >> he's the authentic source. we like to think when we think about what we're doing, we like to think that periscope has the potential of being a platform for truth. we say truth because in that it's live, you know it's happening right now. it's not edited or filtered, it's authentically happening right now. there's something really powerful about that, other tools i don't think can express literally as a periscope can. >> rose: here's an idea you believe i think and so do i. time watched. explain it from your stand point. >> we think of the most relevant

way of understanding whether people are engaged in using this tool we built is to understand how much time they spend watching the broadcast. if everyone opens the app but is never going in and watching a broadcast they are probably not get ag valuable experience. the metric we focused on is how much time are they watching and specifically how much are they watching live. sure you can go back and watch the archive of this broadcast later but we think that live experience is we really want to optimize. how we measure our own success. >> rose: it depends on compelling content and the circumstances. >> the circumstances we find often times it's the broadcaster themselves. you could be doing a mundane broadcast but if you're a compelling narrator people want to listen to you. >> rose: passion, scriptive power. >> knowing how to be a performer and engaging your audience. part of that is activity. if you're responding to questions you don't need to be doing the most exhilarating

thing. you could be a -- people want to watch you because you're you. >> rose: this thing with roger federer, just watching him work out and practice and then have him come over and talk to you for 15 minutes about the work out. >> the best one is roger federer at wimbledon. he was walking from the practice courts through the royal box on to center court. mind you this is before the tournament started. so roger is asking the president, do you mind if i go step on the grass. the guy's won the tournament seven sometimes. of course you can go. being able to be in the palm of his hand, people are saying hey roger, he was holdingate. someone in the audience said hey roger do you mind come to my wedding. no, i'm busy this year. you don't see that on tv or any other platforms. >> rose: how will it be used by news. >> it's already being used by news. some of our most powerful

examples are either citizen journals or journalists in the fields. the refugee crises in the middle east some of the most powerful broadcasts is this journalist who works for built in germany. he was literally crossing into serbia with hundreds of syrian refugees. he was crossing live. crossing the beertd -- border and he was talking to the refugees, how long have you been walking, what do you hope to do once you get to serbia. the rawness of following that stowr was really powerful. baltimore and following the black lives matter protest. the aftermath of the earthquake in nepal. i think periscope had a really interesting perspective on that, that felt true.

>> rose: is he going to continue to be ceo for twitter. do you think that means anything different for twitter. >> i think it's an incredible thing for twitter. >> rose: that the founder will be there. >> that's a symbolic moment as well but the fact it's him specifically. he has a spiritual understanding of twitter in a sense of what it is now and what it can be that no one else in the world does. i think combine that with the fact that, the moral authority of a founder, and also the fact he's such a good leader. he's now built two incredible, two incredible companies in the world in your own right i think it's just a great combination. >> rose: and then there's this. the fight. >> we spoke about that. >> rose: an extensive part of three minutes. what's the rule coming out of that and what is the danger this

will be an issue for you, so-called copyrighted material. >> i think with any new technology -- >> rose: somebody at periscope the parts of the fight did they not. >> i guess the way i would describe it any time there's a new technology plat form that gets mass adoption, there will be moments of disruption that are contention. in the context of live streaming, anyone with a mobile event can live stream one of the complications is copyrighted protection. someone taking the film out of on tv stream. it's something we think about it frankly and the reason we think about it is because we don't believe that content is compelling. i don't think it's tectly interesting to have someone holding their phone and pointing at a tv stream and rebroading a bunch of content. it's the internet it happens and it's always happened ever since people started. >> rose: i think it's more compelling than you do because i

think there are certain thing that people, they have the need for instant gratification, they want to see it even if the quality of distribution isn't perfect. >> that certain was true in the music industry and that pushed for evolution of the technology and accessibility of that content legitimately. i think that trend will hopefully continue in the context of video as well. getting the content immediately, that will push -- >> rose: what's going to happen. >> from our standpoint we need to do a few things and we've already done them. one is to have a policy saying you're not allowed to rebroadcast something that someone has copyrighted. we need teams of people to address this. which is why every night there's an event someone may potential want to broadcast but these have not become rampant issues. we have teams and processes. >> rose: this is also one of

the problems that youtube has. >> youtube definitely had their own growing pains in this regard and they've spent a lot of time and money on this world as well. frankly this is one of the great things about being part of a company like twitter we're not starting from scratch. we have teams of people that can help us with content moderation and process and reaching out to broadcast partners to make sure we're working well with them. >> rose: i know you've thought about this. there are always interesting evolutions in terms of technology. often it's directed to a consumer market but at some point it expands into a business market where there's a lot more money being spent. i can imagine certain instances in which periscope could be used by business people looking for an early start, and a message that they could all share at the same time. and it's ease of access which is appealing to people. >> it's ease of access. it's the ability to reach a large audience and tell your

story. if you're a business, i just mentioned john before we started this. he is the ceo of a public company. he's one of my favorite users on periscope. what does he do. he'll take you into board meetings, he'll take you on a jog through central park, he'll talk about a new t-mobile announcement. he's engaging with his customers. this isn't the first time using a pla form he uses twitter and other. as ceo of a public company he reaches customers and say listen here's what i'm working on, here's what important for t-mobile to do give me your feedback. we're already seeing an incredible array of cases from businesses and brands not just individuals using periscope. >> rose: thank you for coming. >> thanks for having me. >> rose: pleasure having you. >> appreciate it. >> rose: back in a moment. stay with us. >> rose: stanley milgram was the most famous and controversial figures in psychology. he conducted experiments on obedience at yale university 50 years ago. it was indicated that most people will not refrain from

inflicting pain on others if ordered to do so. peter sarsgaard plays stanley milgram. here is the trailer for the experimenter. >> rug, pillow, hair, grass. incorrect. 165 volts. strong shock. >> let me out of here. i will not be part of the experiment anymore. >> please continue. >> he says he doesn't want to go on. >> we must continue. >> in every case the essential are results are the same. they hesitate, sigh, tremble and groan but they switch to 450 volts because they plightly told him. >> stanley milgram is an experiment. >> the person in the other room isn't being shocked. >> let me out of here. >> want to get true reactions from people.

>> the experiment's about obeying orders. >> he could be dead in there. >> please continue. >> social relations. >> everything from the way people talk in elevators to the study of authority. >> human beings participate in destructive inhumane act. >> why is defiance the anomaly instead of the norm. >> why didn't i stop. he told me to continue. >> have you done it. >> i never did that. >> that really hurt. >> i don't like hurting anyone. >> let me out. >> this is really big. >> your father's turning into a fictional character. >> critics insist you're callous. >> no one was forced. >> you're invested. you have authority and you love lording it over all of us. >> a person has a choice.

if she chooses obedience. awareness. liberation. life. >> rose: experimenter. explain to everybody to understand what we've just seen. the idea was the person, the people who are being shocked knew they were not being shocked. >> right. the person in the room the doctor is the actor. the person who knows is the person behind the machine and if the person gives the wrong answer you give them a shock. >> rose: and the person receiving the shock is the most painful thing they've ever seen. >> it goes from mild to excess and danger. actually, even before the experiment begins the teacher, the person who is not in on the experiment would get a sample shock. a mild shock. he would say guess how much that

was. and they would guess. >> rose: this was controversial. >> it became more and more controversialal from the 50's to the 60's. to me if we had this experiment today it would be less controversial than it was then. this idea of a candid reality. the idea that even in the photography of like freedlander and stuff like that, the acting came later, the idea the camera is capturing something inside of us that we're not intending is a style of acting that happened then. so i think it's something from candid camera to punked we've come to accept it. >> rose: you come out of this you knowing what you know about it believing what? people will do whatever they're told to do. >> 65% of people will not obey their own in instints about whas

right and wrong and follow a benevolent leader. >> rose: how do you explain that. >> i think a lot has to do with abdicating the experiment. he filmed the experiment so i think this is one thing that made them quite interesting to people and probably quite popular, right because you could watch them. one of the things i find hopeful is that there's no one who does it without a lot of pain. these people some of them are weeping. all of them are protesting. of them are laughing uncomfortably but all of them say things like well it's your responsibility. you know because it was yale, right. it wasn't hitler, it was yale. and so this felt this is yale, this is a yale experiment, they must know what's going on. when it seems like the other person was being injured they thought well this is on you. >> rose: lots of people look at this and they ask themselves

do we understand how people followed orders, as you suggested. among the nazis. >> absolutely. it's no accident that stanley milgram was a jew in the bronx, grew up in the 40's in the strongs and went to the same high school who did the stanford experiments. they were the same year, i believe. so this idea of trying to understand this thing that was not understandable, was certainly in the air. >> rose: what did you do about playing him. >> for me as an actor, i'm always, i'm questioning the nature of reality. what is the truth of what's going on in any given moment. something i've always been interested in as a kid what's the reality of this moment, you know. it's like whenever you walk out on stage and you're scared any good acting teacher says look at the reality, look at the room, look at the people, look at your hands, feel everything that's

reality and it will ground you. there are several realities going on in this specific experiment. you have the person who thinks they're electrocuting someone else. that's their reality true to them. the other actor in the room is another realitiment stanley milgram on the other side of a two way mirror is another reality. it's look a box of mirrors. you play with what's fake. certainly there are elements in the film that are less convincing than others in terms of the candid reality we're used to in other kinds of film making. when my beard is first introduced into the film, there was a particular kind of beard like abraham lincoln without the must stash. you see an impurse narrator with that beard. i'm doing a pretend accent.

so we're playing with this idea of what is true, what is the reality if it's not candid reality, is it still valid. >> rose: it sales to me in art, not only about somehow finding truth but what is truth. >> what is truth. and is candid truth the truth? i mean that's certainly the order of the day and most acting that we consider good acting. we think like does it feel like it's actually happening in the way we all know, that kind of familiar painting. but to me it's not the only one. >> rose: how did you prepare for this. >> well, for about -- >> rose: you read everything. >> yeah. i never consider it that important to sort of learn every nook and cranny of the real person's life when i'm going to play them because there's some idea that we have a common truth that my experiences and my life are going to overlap with the

characters' real experiences and it's hopeless to try to be them. that said for about two years before we started making this michael just gave me too much information. you know but it's interesting, i don't all get interested. sometimes like with the film i have out now black mass where i play a small role in it, a real guy. with that i just took a picture of him and i looked at the picture and i day dreamed about him. i really didn't get into the specifics of the real person. >> rose: you needed to know as well. >> yes. i mean actually with this, stanley had -- sasha his wife who was really helpful in term of doing this and we met with her a number of time. she gave me a self portrait he had done. and he's wearing mirrored sunglasses and he's got the beard. you don't actually learn anything deep about the person from looking at this picture. but that says something interesting about him. >> rose: take a look at this. this is a clip showing stanley

meeting his wife alexandria played by wynona rider. here it is. >> are we going to the party. >> probably. should we continue talking. >> rose: what a writer. >> yes. it's like someone who is so difficult to play someone who is

so dispassionate. one of the things i really gleaned in a lot of research talking to his brother and talking to sasha is playing this idea of someone who is always watching, everything is about other people. as an actor you're used to playing people everything is about them. to be a scientist to not judge the results or become emotionally involved in them. >> rose: that's being enormously -- >> absolutely put the attention out. >> rose: there's a relationship between what milgram did and what happened at the stanford project. >> yes, definitely. well in that experiment, you start acting like the jailer, pretending you're a jailer and assume all the qualities of one who is jailed. but you know, i think one of the reasons these things are particularly cinematic is they have a lot to do with acting to me. you know, i used to say to

people that you know do you bring your work hemowith -- hoe with you, and i'm set and if i do this all day long, eventually i'll be upset. it's the way the body goes with the emotions. you me tend to do something, even if you're doing it from an outside end place to me it doesn't matter. the body teaches the heart sometimes. the outside will affect the inside. >> rose: you just completed, what are you doing with hamlet. >> with can hamlet in the beginning of june and then magnificent seven. >> rose: magnificent seven. >> yes. i'm in the magnificent seven remake. >> rose: who else in is in it. >> deny sult washington, ethan pratt. >> rose: is that one of the characters we got to know. >> i'm the bad guy.

ely wallach's part. >> rose: every actor approaches it with great trepidation, with great willingness and everybody believes it's something that has to be part of their own acting. most of them do. some avoid it. they don't want to do any shakespeare. tell me how you approached it because people also tell me, i've had lots of actors come to this table, that they don't, it never leaves them. >> that's true. >> rose: you're almost processive and protective. >> you are definitely possessive of it and it's difficult to watch other hamlets i think after you've done it. don rickman as he would play claudius. it's like i played him but i don't know if i want to sit there and watch you do it every night. >> rose: why is that? >> it's because it's a daply

personal part. i think the thing that keeps people thinking about it is because it's impact to stick the landing. you're never going to do it until, i did it. i approach that part by i guess a year and-a-half out i decided to do it. i asked someone that i've worked with a number of times. my mentor penny alan who is the best acting coach in cinema today and probably worked with half the guests you've had on here. a real hidden talent. had not acted in many years on stage. and she wanted to play gertrude and she played gertrude opposite my hamlet and that was a large part why i initially got involved. i read the play every day for a year. a little piece of it for about an hour and-a-half. kind of moved through it sequentially. >> rose: it didn't take a year and-a-half to do that did

it. >> no but what i would do is take a little piece of it. for an hour and-a-half each day i would go through that little piece, think about it. then i would move on to a little piece and maybe every month i'd read through the whole thing. just to become because it's all about the word, you know. it's all in the language. and so that's what you're minding the entire time. and i think i'm going to do it again. >> rose: this was a modern adaptation. >> it was, yeah. i mean, it's hard to say. it felt like it was in the mind. felt like to me the play felt like it takes place in the unconscious mind. you know, when i look at the plight i look at someone who is being gas lighted, this is somebody who people are going like charlie, are you okay? are you sure you're okay? and then he reacts by going does that cloud look like a camel? oh yeah. does it look like a weasel. oh yeah. if you have the whole world not reflecting the truth back to you

end up being one of the people. you can't see what reality is. and that's very interesting as an actor. >> rose: speaking of that, does it change your view of anything other than what shakespeare had in mind. >> you mean the relationship in the nature of the play. >> rose: the character. >> yeah. i actually finished the play wanting to play horatio. when i finished the may i went like right i'm getting a beat on hamlet but what is up with this friend who doesn't say hey look, you killed your girlfriend's father, your two childhood friends, maybe we shouldn't go back home quite yet. and all of this stuff at the cemetery, i'm worried about you. he doesn't say that. to me a lot of the time i'm attracted to characters because i don't have an answer. if i feel stumped, i will want to do the part.

and i think that's the way a lot of people feel doing hamlet. it's like i don't understand. i have to try to understand by doing it. >> rose: you mentioned an acting coach. what's her name. >> penny alan. the thing is the way that she works is never like this is what the scene's about. all the ideas feel like they come from you. sometime it's music. sometimes it's a poem. a lot of time as an actor because you work by yourself before a project starts you're kind of by yourself. it's difficult to be one, be disciplined about doing it because we're an undisciplined life people. the other thing is to have someone like i was telling you like bounce back mirror mirror. and i feel like that's a lot of what she does is just have that conversation with you. >> rose: thank you peter. great to see you. >> absolutely. >> rose: the film is experimenter. it opens on friday, october 16th. thank you for joining us. see you next time.

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♪ >> announcer: this is "nightly business report," with tyler mathisen and sue herera. strong quarter. what shares of general electric did today that they haven't done in years. move or improve. why homeowners are choosing to put a lot more money into their current home. and buy and hold. the stocks our market monitor says should be in your portfolio for a year or more. all that and more tonight on "nightly business report" for friday october 16th. good evening, everyone, and welcome. a seven-year high. that's where general electric shares finished the day after reporting strong third quarter results. the conglomerate said its earnings improved as it continues a massive restructuring and a return to its industrial roots. the stock that's widely held in mutual funds rose more t