>> rose: welcome to the program. earlier tobt the republican presidential candidates squared off in bolder, colorado, for their third debate. as we tape this the debate is just beginning. we'll have full analysis and perspective tomorrow. >> you got to be patient. you got to be stick with it and all that. but also i can't fake anger am i believe this is still the most extraordinary country on the face of the earth. and it troubles me that people are rewarded for tearing down our country. it's never been that way in american politics before. >> i would begin by saying that i'm not sure it's a weakness. but i do believe i share a sense of optimism of today's-- america's future that i think is eroding. i think there is a sense in the country that our best days are behind us and that doesn't have to be true. our greatest days lie ahead. if we are willing to do what did takes now. >> i think maybe our greatdest weakness is i trust people too much. i'm too trusting.

an when they let me down, if they let me down, i never forgive. i find it very, very hard to forgive people that deceived me. >> probably in terms of applying for the job of president, the weakness would be not really seeing myself in that position, until hundreds of thousands poof begin to tell me that i needed to do it. i do, however, believe in reagan's 11th commandment and will not be engaging in awful things about my exait yots here. and recognizing that it is so important, this election, because we're talking about america for the people versus america for the government. >> rose: we continue this evening with ted koppel, a conversation not only about his new book "lights out: a cyberattack, a nation unprepared. surviving the aftermath "but a look at the challenges faisessing this country and a look back at his career as the anchor of nightline.

>> a little more than a week ago admire mike longers who is the director of the nsa, you probably read it in "the wall street journal," he addressed a "the wall street journal" conference. and he said, this is the head of the nsa, it is inevitable that there is going to be a cyberattack against our infrastructure. i talked to lloyd austin, general lloyd austin who is the commander of sentcom. general austin said to me it's not a question of if, it's a question of when. >> rose: we conclude this evening with steve martin and edie brickell playing the banjo and singing some good music. >> from the first time i heard it, i loved it. i loved it for several reasons. one, you know, it has this ability to be played at high speed, hard driving fast speed. but what i really was interested in it for was it its capacity

for mel an alcohollee. and it's a very american sound. >> i'm inspired by his banjo tract and the personality in the mel oddee of the banjo. images just throw in my consciousness when i listen to it and all i have to do is pay attention and nar rate them and the music obviously dictates how are you going to sing and what key. just to pay attention and be in the present moment. >> rose: ted koppel, steve martin and edie brickell when we continue. >> funding for charlie rose is provided by american express. >> additional funding provided >> rose: additional funding provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by

rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. ted koppel is here, he was the anchor and managing editor of abc's nightline for 25 years. this is embarrassing to read. he's received 42 emmys and eight peabody awards among many of the honors in a long and distinguished career. his new book is called lights out, a cyberattack, a nation unprepared, surviving the aftermath. it considers the possibility an impact of a cyberattack on the u.s. power grid. the senate passed its most significant cybersecurity bill yesterday. senator harry reid cited koppel's book in his remarks last week about the need for this legislation. >> three years ago this month then secretary of defense deon pannettea warranted the united states of a potential cyberpearl harbor. cyberpearl harbor, direct quote.

a cyberpearl harbor would be crippling, it would be a cyberattack on our nation's banks, power grid, government and communications networks. and it sounds scary. that's because it is scary. cyberterrorists could potentially bring united states to it's knees. this potential yality is upon us. a catastrophic cyberattack is not far fetched. ted koppel, the renowned journalist, has written another book. and the author reveals that our nation's power grid is extremely vulnerable to cyberterrorism. imagine the toll of these attacks. a massive power blackouts. no telephone. no internet capability, and that's on your cell phones or whatever phones exist. overwhelmed first responder, an infrastructure system reduced to

chaos. >> rose: i am pleased to have ted koppel back at this table. he is a great and dear friend. and i'm pleased a that he has written a book that calls the nation's attention to what is urgently required to do to avoid a cyberattack. and i start with that notion of what caused you to come to this book. >> essentially what harry reid was talking about there, i kept hearing smart, important, high-ranking people from the president on down, i mean the president has twice warned about the dang-- danger of a cyberattack on the power grid in his state of the union address. nothing in the press the next morning. the reference that harry reid made to then defense secretary relong bond panetta. here is the secretary of defense talking about the danger of a cyberpearl harbor. the next day-- . >> rose: meaning a surprise attack on america will not come as it has in the past.

it will be over the internet. >> over the internet. and it will be infinitely more damaging, potentially, than pearl harbor was. no response, nothing. i mean i think there was a small item in "the wall street journal." it was a small item in the "new york times." and so i just sat down and said to myself, i wonder what plans if any have been made for this population. so i picked up the phone and i kawlted the red cross. and i picked up the phone and i called the department of homeland security. and i picked up the phone and i called fema. and i got stuck in one phone tree after another. and i mean my first reaction was nothing is going on right now. there is no crisis. if i can't get through to any one of these agencies in a time of absolute calm. >> rose: panic. >> no panic, in a time of no panic, how am i going to get through. >> rose: in a time of panic. >> exactly.

during a time of panic. so eventually you get through the phone tree, you find a human being. and the human being refers you to a website. and you go look at that website. and you can do it any one of your viewers can do it tomorrow. look at the website for fema. look at the website for department of homeland security, red cross. and they cite every possible disaster that could befall the human race. i mean an earthquake, a tornado, a hurricane, a blizzard. every thing but, you know, death of the first born. is there one word about the possibility of a cyberattack. there is not. nothing. and every one of these references they make talks about having preparations for two or three days of food, two or three days of water, two or three days of your medicine. the problem is, a cyberattack could knock out the power grid for months. affecting tens of millions of

people. we need a plan and this is not a partisan issue. i mean harry reid ought to be able to reach across the aisle there and talk to the folks. he and mitch mcconnell ought to be able to sit down and say we really ought to do something with. >> rose: if there is anything that would go onpart sonship, this would be it, a threat to the nation. >> and it is. >> rose: so you then, so you knew there was a question. why are we so unprepared for cyberattack. especially on the electric grid. >> well, at that point my question was i wonder if the federal government has a plan. and so began talking to people. and. >> rose: did you see no evidence of it so far. >> i see no evidence of it. >> so i started talking to folks, starting doing interviews. and i talked to every one of the secretaries of homeland security, beginning with tom ridge, and going through to jeh johnson. and the ones who have left office were actually quite frank

to admit, you know something, there is no plan. there is no plan. jeh johnson acted as though there might be a plan but he's been too busy to really figure it out. he sort of gestured to some folders up on the shelf of his office and said i'm sure there is something in there somewhere. but fundamentally when you say to him but what are you going to recommend to the american public, it was get some batteries for your battery powered radio. >> rose: walk through the process of how it might happen. and how would the attack come about, and what would be the consequences if one of the electric grids was compromised. >> well, let's start with, let's start with the end. if one of the electric power grids was compromised, there would be no light, no cooling, no heating, no flow of water, no functioning toilets, in the

cities, thousands of people would be stuck in elevators. but they would get them out of the elevators eventually. but it could potentially be, i mean, i don't knowment you live here in the city, right? >> yes. >> how much food do you have at home, how long do you. >> almost knock for me because i eat out a every night. >> a great many people in the city eat out, call out for food or have enough food in the house for two or three days. very few people have enough food to last them for months. so i spoke to the then secretary of homeland security for the state of new york. i said how many, you know, how much food do you have. oh, he said, well, we've got probably, i think he said, about 20 or 25 million mris, meals ready to eat. and i said that's for the state of new york, right. >> population. >> population-- yes, exactly. ed city of new york you're talking about 8 million people. let's assume that the folks upstate can take care of

themselves. 8 million people, 25 million meals. that's three meals per person, let's say they limit themselves to one meal a day. >> three days. >> three days. >> what happens after that? no plan. there is no plan. >> firs question though, is there anyway to stop it? or is it inevitable that this kind of attack will take place and we're going to have to deal with it? >> charlie, only a little more than a week ago admiral mike longers who is the director of the nsa, you probably read it in "the wall street journal," he addressed a "the wall street journal" conference. and he said, this is the head of the nsa, it is inevitable that there is going to be a cyberattack against our infrastructure. i talked to lloyd austin, general lloyd austin who is the commander of sentcom.

general austin said to me, it's not a question of if, it's a question of when. >> rose: let me make sure what you are saying here. it's not a question of if, it's a question of when, that there will be a successful attack. >> on our, one of our cybergrids. we only have three cybergrids in the united states. the eastern interconnect, texas has its own and then there is the west coast. >> do we know what people have tried to attack the grids of the united states? >> we know that they are already in the grid. >> we know, but they haven't pulled the trigger. >> they haven't pulled the trigger. and those that can do it, the good news, charlie, is that those that can do it, the chinese, the russians, already have what amount to sorlt of like cyberlands mines. >> right. >> rose: in the grid. and essentially by hitting a key on a computer, somewhere, like a desktop computer, and it could

be anywhere, it could be some one sitting in ukraine. it could be someone sitting in brooklyn, you don't know where they're going to be. >> rose: and this is, in fact, the horrifying possibility of the internet. >> well, the horrifying possibility of two fold. one the internet was never designed to be defended. the internet was designed as one army intelligence officer told me, so that professors could exchange good ideas. right? and it's almost impossible to completely defengd something that was never designed to be defended in the first place. it was, in fact, designed to be. >> and everything that has been done so far in the short history was to expand its possibility rather than defend it. >> exactly. >> and you know, i mean, in the final analysis, charlie, when

you look around, and you say wait a second, there are thousands of hacking incidents every day. they tar get industry. they target banks, they target companies like target. they target the files of our intelligence agencies. they managed to get into the private e-mail account of the cia director, right? it is, i think, careless for anyone to assume that we can do all of those things. all of those things are happening every day. but don't worry about what is fundamentally a poorly protected piece of infrastructure like the-- like the-- . >> rose: so if it is inevitable, the question is why is there no sense of emergency and urgency? >> why? >> keith alexander who used to. >> former head of nsa. >> said you know, it's kind of

crude. >> we're up to our-- in alligators, we have the isis alligator, we have the syria alligator. we have iran all gaitder, iraq alligator, and you are coming saying i have this other alligator over here that hasn't happened yet. but it might. and he said in the army we have a special group and a special officer who is in charge of the future. what are the potentially issues that we need to worry about. i'm not all together sure, charlie, that we have someone in our political system who is tasked with doing the same thing. >> rose: here is what i would suggest to maybe, it is that it's more-- it has an increasing priority for them. i mean keith alexander was head of nsa and head of the cybercommand, and mike rogers has those two johns today. >> right. >> and it is a priority for them

now. >> they-- . >> rose: it is a subject of great dialogue between the chinese and the united states. >> they certainly do, charlie. but remember the nsa is in deep trouble in this country. >> rose: right. >> the nsa is perceived by bsh ---- . >> rose: courtesy of edward snoaden and much of what snoaden reported turns out to be accurate. >> right. the question we have to ask ourselves as patriotic american citizens is, are we more worried about having our privacy compromised by our own intelligence agencies or by the intelligence agencies of the chinese and the russians and the iraqians. >> rose: and what do they want to do with the information. >> exactly. and in the final analysis, i think we may have to come to the conclusion that we've got to give the nsa a little bit of space. now you spoke-- . >> rose: is this about between privacy and security. >> absolutely. and the irony is that groups like-- are out there saying wait

a second, don't try and control what we do with the information that we gather, from your laptops that you punched into your laptops because you don't really think about the fact that the information that you put into that lop top is then being used by a lot of these private companies to do what, to make money. they sell it then, to other merchandisers. >> rose: of course they do. but apple makes a big point about that, that is their argument. that they don't sell information. they sell products. that is apple's argument to try to separate themselve from goggle. on the overhand, the government and the fbi is very concerned about apple because they encrypt the products in which they cannot access them, there is no back door. >> no back door. >> rose: you know. >> and yet, i mean one of the interesting things is, you have heard of the black hat conference which usually takes place in las vegas, all the hackers go and delight in pointing out to the various big companies, seemens, for example,

has all these systems that they create. a skata system t stands for supervisedy control and data acquisition. essentially they run the computer system that keeps our energy grids in balance. you have to have a perfect balance between the production of energy and the consumption of energy. so siemens makes a lot of these scata systems. essentially the same scada system is sitting in california as is sitting in tehran. they are sold all over the world. so siemens says we have this absolutely hack-proof password that only siemens technicians can get into with these scada systems. and at one of these black hat conferences one young man gets up and explains this. and say this is what siemens says and here is that password.

and he proceeds it give it-- so that siemens had to send people all over the world to get into the back door and change the password. >> rose: yeah. so obviously have you heard a word about this in the political campaign so far. >> yes, i heard one word from jim webb. >> rose: no longer a candidate. >> no longer a candidate. he sort of made a passing reference to the danger of cyberattacks. and nobody paid any attention to him whatsoever. and of course he's not in the campaign any more. >> rose: one other question we always ask questions, potential presidents is the famous what if you got a call at 3:00 in the morning which was part of the democratic debate in 2008 when hillary and president obama. but you outlined before we began this program, a sense of what would a president do and how would he have to respond. and what would be, you know, the presentation to a president if there had been an attack.

>> it's exactly the right question to ask. if we go back into the 1960s when what we were worried about was the potential of a new clear attack, we would have known exactly where that new clear attack was coming from. the president wouldn't have had much time. someone would have called the president and said mr. president, we got 28 minutes. they just launched, the soviets have just launched however many new clear missiles and they'll be impacts here in the next 28 minutes. and within those 28 minutes, the president would have had to then make a decision as to whether he wanted to launch a retaliatory attack. but he would have known exactly who was attacking. and where the attack was coming from. >> rose: today? >> today somebody walks into the president and says mr. president, someone has just knocked out the texas power grid. houston, dallas, san antonio, they're all in the dark. it may be weeks or months before

we can get it up again. and the president says well, do you have any idea who did it. well, sir, we believe we have 57% certainty that it came out of the ukraine. and the president says wait a second, you are telling me you've got 57% certainty. what am i supposed to do with that? and who exactly in ukraine do you think did it? and are you absolutely confident that it originated in ukraine or when you start back channeling here are you going to find out that actually it didn't originate in ukraine, it was just passed through ukraine but it came from santiago chili. >> pakistan or whatever. >> an before chili it came from islamabad. and before islamabad, someone appears to have had some connection with this in brooklyn. and now the president says, and what exactly are you

recommending that i do and against whom. and his briefers sort of look at one another and say we'll get back to you, mr. president. just remember. >> rose: make sure you get back to me within. >> within how much time, you know. i mean just remember how much time it took when north korea hacked into sony pictures. it was months before the fbi could say with any certainty. >> rose: that it came from china. >> that it came from north korea. and even then when they realized that it had come from north korea, exactly what did we do? you know, we targeted a few individuals in the north korean hire aee but i don't think anything that the united states did at that point, i don't know what they said privately, is going to discourage north korea from doing it again. >> rose: in all the people that you talk to in writing this book, who had the best plan that

ought to be implemented today? >> well, the only people who really have a plan didn't form late it because of the danger of a cyberattack against the u.s. power grade. but the more monday church and many of the 6 million more mondays in this country are about as well prepared for any disaster as anyone could possibly be. >> rose: why is that? >> because they have been kked from pilar to post for the past 200 years. they were kicked out of new york and out of new york into ohio, and from ohio into. >> rose: ending up in utah. >> ending up in utah. and throughout their history, they have been told by their leaders by their prophet, you got to be ready for the worst. you've got to be prepared. it may be a natural disaster. it may be that your husband

dies. it may be that you and your-- and your husband both lose your jobs at the same time. get yourself a back log of food. and many if not most mormon families in this country have at least a three-month supply of food. >> rose: the president said in one of his statements, he said we don't want to wake up ten years from now saying why didn't we do something. it's one of the things the president has said. >> indeed he has. >> rose: it seems to me that the president ought to be the person responsible for doing it. >> in his state of the union address. >> rose: yes. should he be held accountable for not doing something, just talking about it? >> look, the poor man has got a lot on his plate. >> rose: stop that. >> no, no. >> rose: you sound like the people you went to talk to saying i'm busy, i don't have time. you are saying the president is busy, i'm going to give him a pass. >> i'm not giving him a pass. i'm giving you the answer you will get from the administration. the president has a lot on his plate. what is being done, for example,

there is a retired three-star general who is working together with the kol agency, i've got a few paragraphs on him in the book. and their theory is it's from the theory, they say look, the u.s. navy has been using these small new clear generators on navy ships for the past 50 years. and we have not had a single accident. where dojt we put these new clear generators on military bases around the country so that a, the military has a guaranteed supply of lech trissity. age-- electricity. and b the surplus electricity that they produce can then be used to support hospitals and all kinds of infrastructure in the local community. wonderful idea. if indeed it is approved, it will take ten years to implement it. it hasn't been approved yet.

>> rose: then they should start today. >> they should. they should have started yesterday. that's what i am hoping. i am hoping that we will get a national debailt-- debate started. not even a debate. a conversation. >> rose: so let me just talk about you. how do you view night line in your life? >> oh, in my life. >> rose: yeah. >> well,. >> rose: here you are, just let me do this. one, born in england. >> right. >> rose: went to stanford. >> right. >> rose: and ended up as a radio reporter for abc, was it. >> it was. >> rose: and then television, diplomatic correspondent. you know, you've said some wonderful things about henry kissinger because you covered him well, you and march vin and others when he was secretary of state. and then we have the hostage taking. -- comes to you.

>> no. >> it goes to dan rather and says dan, we tbt this late night show that we're going to put on. we're going to make it a permanent show. and i would really like you to come over from cbs. come to abc and do that show. and dan says thank you, but no thanks. then he goes to shall-- . >> rose: was he anchoring the cbs news at that time. >> yes, yes. >> i think what he was doing, he was being mischief yus because roger mud was sort of next in line to replace walter cronkite. and by taking dan away, you know, he wanted, ru ne wanted to create trouble for cbs. so cbs had to offer dan the evening job and they did. he offered it to my old friend tom bro kaw. tom said thanks but no thanks. he offered it to roger mud, and roger said thanks but no thanks. and so-- force ma jeur, ted,

okay, ted. >> rose: but was it to do a week of shows or two shows. >> no, no. >> rose: it was a commitment to do what? >> it was a commitment. at that point, remember t had been america held hostage. day 326. whatever it was at that point. and abc was losing money hand over fist because it was a special. it wasn't a regularly scheduled permanent program. so they couldn't put advertising on it. and as each month or two goes by, they're losing another million dollars. and so finally, you know, the folks over at abc headquarters say you got to do something about this. and they say well, let us, let's turn it into a permanent program. and that's how night line was born. >> rose: when was that? >> that was in march of 1980. >> right. >> rose: and it lasted for 25 years? >> well. >> in terms of you. >> in terms of me, it lasted almost 26 years. >> rose: 26 years.

>> why did you leave? >> look, i left. >> look, it's like i'm exasperated to have to tell you this. >> i'm not exasperated. it's one of the-- two of the sad realities about our business. sad reality number one is night line at one point had been making a ton of money for abc. i mean really a ton of money. but as cable television came along, satellite television came along, the number of competing programs on the air becomes greater and greater and greater. the cost of paying all the salaries, my salary, the salaries of all the people who are very loyal to the program and to me who stayed with the program, and when folks in network television stay somewhere for ten years, 12 years, 15 years. >> 25 yearses. >> they don't expect their salaries to go down at the end of each contract.

they expect them to go up. so we are costing more and more money. we are earning less and less money. and there are folks who are very gently coming to me and saying ted, you know these programs you do on foreign policy and the programs that you do on all these serious issues at night line, they're awfully good, they really are. we can't deny it. but have you thought about, they didn't quite say, the kardashians but the implication was if we could just get a little more show business into tho thing. if we could just lighten it up a little bit. if you could just appeal to a younger audience. and at that point i was, i was 65. and i thought you know something, it's time to go. >> rose: at some point they didn't offer you what you wanted or. >> no, no, it wasn't that. >> rose: at some point they got tired of three days a week. >> i think they were tired of three days a week. i think they were tired of paying for an exorbitant amount

of money for paying me three days a weekment and they were very, very nice about it my old friend david westin who is now one of your clegs here. >> was president of the news division. >> anchoring a. >> brilliant job of an anchor, looks better than you and me and smarter than both of us. >> there you go. >> he's doing a good job. he said you know how would you like to do this week. and. >> i know. >> don't think so. don't think so. rdz why not, the argue is, this is a perceived conventional wisdom, and maybe just that. you weren't that frommed in the american politics. >> that's true. that is true. >> rose: so you were not a perfect fit for you and you knew it. >> well, wait a second. at that point, at that point in time i think it was still feasible to say you don't have to do these sunday morning programs on domestic politics

every single week of the year. you just don't have to. there are, after all, really important things going on in other parts of the world. there are really important things going on that have nothing to do with politics. and my feeling has always been that that should have been what these sunday morning programs do. but i get it. they have-- they have been very successful at doing politics and nothing but politics. but i must tell you, i don't watch those shows. is listen to them. they are rebroadcast on c opinion span and sunday afternoons i go for a long walk and i put on my headset and i listen to all the programs one after another. and they're all the same. they're all the same. there's nothing, there's nothing really new on them. >> rose: okay, so whatever happened, all right, happened as you described, obviously. you and abc came to a parting of the ways. >> and it was an amicable

parting. >> and you had a lot of money. you had this big place out on the chesapeake bay and kids and great families, now happy to have her teddy back home. >> i hope so. yes. >> rose: so what did you do? did you get bored. >> no. >> rose: did you write books. >> no. >> rose: did you become a fisherman, did you develop new talents, did you do what george bush did, did you go and learn how to paint? what did you do? >> no, no, no. i worked as a-- i worked as a an analyst on bbc america. >> rose: bbc america, but. >> i was an analyst. i did-- i did the same thing for npr radio. >> yeah. >> at the same time. i ended up spending a couple of years working for my friends over at nbc news when brian williams had a brief fling with

a magazine program. >> right. >> that's right, you were one of his. >> you were part of that. >> i was a special correspondent. >> why didn't that work? >> i don't know. yes, i do. i think it-- i think it didn't work because nbc kept moving it. it would be on whenever the hell it was on, monday night. and they would say we're moving it to wednesday. it would be on wednesday and now we're going to move it to thursday. you can't build a loyal following. and you can't build a loyal following in two years. it takes awhile. if cbs had lost patience with of 0 mince after two years, which they might have done. it would have been gone. >> they found a place on sunday night and then all of a sudden everything worked. >> what is interesting to me is that i think you were night line. night line was you.

this was a case, as famously church il said about entering ten downing to begin in world war ii, everything i have ever done prepared me for this. you were the perfect person to do that show. and this is a perfect fit. >> while it was that show. >> while it was that show. >> but if it was to become something different, which clearly it has. >> it has. >> i wasn't the right guy for that. >> it is true. you tried to expand it to an hour. >> i didn't try to expand it. abc was packing so much money off it at that point that they said do it for an hour. i really think that's a bad idea. and it was a terrible idea. and we almost killed night line in its second year. and finally after about nine, ten months of doing that, the powers that be conceded that this was not a good idea and we went back to half an hour. >> so here you are, you-- you have gone this other thing, gone with brian, that didn't quite work out, and you no he what it was. they moved it around or it wasn't a perfect fit for brian,

whatever it might have been. and npr is always good. >> always good. >> and are you great on radio. i am just wondering, why it is that we don't see ted koppel doing something that he is uniquely capable of doing except for ted koppel has no am biks to do that. ted koppel has no curiosity to do that. ted koppel, you know, is show tired. >> no, i'm-- tired is the wrong word. i'm at a stage in my life where the idea of actually spending quality time with my wife, i don't ever want to disappear totally. but getting to work on this book, worked for me. because it meant that i could just, you know, walk a hundred yards away from my house where we have a barn and where i have my office. and i could work there for four, five, six hours a day. i could walk back and have lunch

with my wife. i would be there for dinner every night, i would be there for breakfast every day. >> rose: here you are, 75 nowness with right. ok that everybody is talking about. what else do you want to do? other than spend time with your wife. >> i might do he koition-- occasional pieces for a good, i mean i'm-- i am fascinated by sunday morning cbs programming. >> good program. >> it's a wonderful program. they do great pieces. >> they do. >> and they have been nice enough to say they might want me to do a couple of pieces. and doing a piece every couple of mops would be lovely. >> you don't need much money, it is not an issue. >> that's not an issue. >> it better not be an issue because they're not going to pay it anyway. >> exactly. i know cbs. >> but the idea is that it has to be a compelling story that you wanted to tell. >> it has to be imelling-- compelling to me. >> yeah. >> i will give you an example of

a story i would love to do. in mumbai india, they are now arresting restaurant owners who are serving beef. now mumbai, the former bomb bay, is a very cosmopolitan city. but it is a largely muslim drk dsh i mean largely hindu city. an even though there are muslims in mumbai who had restaurants which were attended by people like you and me who come from overseas, people are getting five year prison terms for serving hamed burg certificate. that's a hell of a story. >> rose: that really is a story. >> yeah. i would love to do that story. >> rose: and india has the second largest muslim population in the world. >> yes. even though most of india's muslims are now in pakistan. >> rose: it's great to you have here. >> charlie, it's always a delight, it really is. >> rose: thank you. >> you make-- you make

subjecting one self to an interview such a pleasure. >> rose: lights out, a cyberattack, a nation unprepared surviving the aftermath. ted koppel. my thanks. back in a moment, stay with us. steve martin and edie brickell. steve martin and edie brickell are here. steve calls their musical partnership a giant accident. this accident has lead to two highly acclaimed albums, a grammy and a new broadway musical. conan o'brien said of martin he is the first man in history to inspire the phrase hey, everyone, quiet down, i'm trying to hear the banjo. follow up to their grammy award-winning debutt at bum released on friday. here is the trailer for so familiar. ♪ ♪ ♪ come my four wheels on the pavement ♪ if you look you'll find me gone ♪ got the pedal to the metal ♪

♪ my radio ♪ my radio on ♪ got you in my rearview mirror ♪ ♪ i am here to keep you there ♪ never once ♪ never going down that dark road ♪ the road you're on ♪ i've been there ♪ ♪ i've done that ♪ i will go anywhere ♪ but i won't go back ♪ >> rose: i'm please todz have steve martin and edie brickell at this table. welcome. congratulations. >> thank you. >> thank you very much. >> rose: you said this was a gienlt disintd, this partnership. >> uh-huh. >> what did you mean? >> well, i meant that it was-- it wag not by design. it was kind of a koins dense. and then we've had such great fortune come from it. i mean i'm not talking financially, i'm talking artistically. and it was just a couple of bits

of certificate endippity that edie ran into me at a party. and she said i would like to write a song with you. and i didn't, i have never written a song with anybody, so i'm kind of nodding, oh, yeah, sure. this is edie brickell, i have to call her. i said i would. so we got together. >> rose: but before you got together did you send her something? >> yes, well, actually-- the first time we didn't. i just came over to your house. and i said i've got this song. >> he played what became sun going to shine. but we were both so shy. i actually couldn't believe that he was showing me a tune. i thought that would just, the suggestion would just float away like feathers, you know, in the wind. and here he was. >> we didn't really know how to work together. or how it was done. so i would play the song and just record it and i will spend some time. so i recorded it and she sent me

this beautiful tune which is in our musical by the way, sun is going to shine. >> rose: tell us about the meuses kal. >> it's hard to discuss. it's going to open at the kennedy center. in december. and then it's coming to broadway in march. and it's-- the music is based around the type of music that we write. we agreed that we both love mus kales and we both grew up on them. and one of the great assets of those musicals were very strong mel oddees. and that is kind of the way we think we write or try to write. and we found this story. and the story, am i talking too much? >> rose: what were you surprised about with steve? >> his heart. his heart. i knew that he was a really smart guy. everybody knows how funny he is. but he sent me a version of the script, very early on. and he has written the most beautiful scene. and i wept because it had so much heart. and love in it that i was moved.

>> rose: you wept. >> i did. i actually sobbed. then i went to pick up the phone. i said i cannot bleefer you have written this, the most gorgeous thing. i was so moved. >> rose: you are much better than i thought you would be. >> i think edie and i work alike in that we are-- i don't think either of us is crazy. you know, we get along. and don't make demands. we collaborate and work together. >> rose: what was your training i don't have any training. singing around the house. >> rose: was that it. >> my mom singing around the house. she-- allowed for a house that was not shy. >> rose: the music was in the house. >> so much music. it was, there was always-- it's like sound track to life going on. we were encouraged to sing along. >> rose: and what is the process for writing a song? >> well, with steve, i'm inspired by his banjo track and the personality in the mel oddee of the banjo. images just settle in my

consciousness when i listen to it and all i have to do is pay attention and nar rate them. and in the music, obviously dictates how you are going to sing and what key and just to pay attention and to be in the present moment. >> rose: you also have. >> you also have many ways of writing songs. because the way we define it is one thing but i know you can improvise a new song. >> i love to improvise, that is my favorite thing to do. just pay attention with what is going through your consciousness. >> rose: so he brings out the best in you. >> and by the way, likewise. >> thank you. >> rose: and how does that work? i mean just because she under stands what you are capable of. >> here is what is great. , is where the other person is doing something you cannot do. or not do as well. and so edie's lyrics, she has written the lyrics for our show and i think they're stunning. because first of all, i didn't know, you know, when you write a meuses kal, you have to shall--s

when you write a regular song one person is sing. when you write a musical song you have several people singing in their various characters and edie excelled at that, giving opinions, coming back and forth, you know, in the scenes. and you have a extra challenge in a musical that the song doesn't just simply reiterate the theme that came before it. so otherwise you have to, go yeah, we know that. so in the song, the song has to reveal new information too, or new story or new thoughts. >> you have said he doesn't write-- stock banjo parts. his music. >> i mean they aren't banjo parts like i've ever really heard before. they're very mol odjick and they're not just that really fast, it's not what i would expect. he plays it in an original way, i think.

or that's how i hear it. >> rose: you say this is not blue grass, it's americana. >> well, blue grass ask a very well defined genre and it generally means violin, mand lynn,-base, and sometimes dobro but our music is, not broader, but using more instruments and it swings a different way, away from blue grass. not always. there are blue grass songs in the showment but i don't define this as a blue grass musical at all. i just think of it as music. >> rose: take a look at this. this is you and edie performing the grammy award-winning song love has come for you. here it is. >> he had a job of a man from the banks ♪ he was married ♪

with a song ♪ all of her family said give that child away ♪ try to erase what you done ♪ ♪ but that sweet boy in her arms ♪ none of their words meant a thing ♪ and when she held that seat boy in her arms ♪ she heard the quiet angel sing ♪ love, love snoalt ♪ love ♪ is come for you ♪ love ♪ love ♪ ♪ love has come for you ♪ >> rose: is performing in front of an audience, singing and playing the banjo, is it the same sensation as standup comedy?

>> well, actually, in that show that you saw that we taped, i'm so glad we taped with because we toured that show for several years. and you know, it was constantly changing. and so i am glad we have some kind of record of the way it was at that time. but it has a lot of comedy in that show. so it's actually kind of ideal because i don't have to do an hour and a half of stand up which is really, really hard. i get to, you know, break it up with a song, make some jokes with the band. make a joke with edie, then start another song, it's a nice relaxing way to work. >> rose: this is a clip from the music video for won't go back, off their new album. here we go. am ♪ i been there snoatd ♪ i've done that ♪ i'll go anywhere ♪ but i won't go back ♪ i've been there ♪

i've done that ♪ i've i'll go anywhere ♪ but i won't go back ♪ never, never ♪ never, never ♪ going back ♪ never, never, never going back ♪ never, never never going back ♪ ♪ never going back ♪ >> rose: here's what you once said about playing the ban jovment you said it's like if you were sitding at home and your spouse says to you oh, look, i see that jerry seinfeld is doing an evening of original songs he wrote for the bassoon. >> i forgot about that line. >> rose: it's great.

>> yeah. >> rose: steve martin playing the banjo tonight, oh my god. but you have passed that point. >> you know, i've been playing for over 50 years. but i say i have just started playing with a band, about eight years ago now. and so that is another thing to do. >> rose: but why is banjo your instrument of preference. >> from the first time i heard it, i loved it. i loved it for several reasons. one, did had this-- it has this ability to be played at lie speed, hard driving, fast speed. but what i really was interested in it for was it capacity for mel an alcoholy. and it's a very american sound. you know, like copeland never used it but he sort of didn't need to, you know. but i really love the idea much ban swro with strings like we do on our show and it's the moddive

instrument. it's gone through a huge complex history. >> rose: how did the musical come about. did you decide, do you have a narrative and a story you wanted to tell. >> well, we had discussed that we both loved musicals. and its with a little bit of a challenge in our mind. like yeah, that seems like a really good challenging thingment but then we thought about it for probably six months before we started because i had to find the right idea. >> rose: you said every time you get a new banjo there is a song waiting to come out. >> i found that to be true. if i ever bought a new banjo, you pick it up and you start playing and you go where did that come from. but you only get that one song per banjo that is spontaneous. >> rose: is it fair to say you didn't take the banjo seriously until later? >> well, i took it seriously but i had another life going on. i was, you know, doing movies. and i would practice in the trailer. that is how you pass hours. >> it was always a part of your life. >> always was.

less present then as it is now. now it's really, really present. >> rose: and why is that? bawz you're not doing those other things. >> well, i-- you know, we have something to do. we've made two records. we've done a musical. you're always thinking and you have to write new songs for the new album. you know, it's-- it's really a nice process. and also, you know, you develop friends, new friends, new people in your life that r i found that people in blue grass to be so wonderful and kind and again royce. and talented. and really smart. >> rose: much success, great to see you. >> thank you very much. >> we really enjoyed it. >> rose: thank you for bringing out the best in him. >> we're going to keep talking, just roll the tape. we'll keep talking. >> rose: we'll have a long long tape. but did you perform for us. and i'm thrilled to have you here. take a look at this as we go away. ♪ you're supposed to be

together i know ♪ i feel it way down deep in my soul ♪ we'll never meant to be apart ♪ ♪ i keep you here ♪ inside of my heart ♪ i always have ♪ always will ♪ always always, always will ♪ i always have ♪ ♪ always will ♪ always, always, always will ♪ we're supposed to be together it's true ♪ i've had my doubts ♪ but not about you ♪ we'll never is meant to be apart ♪ i love you now ♪ i have from the

start ♪ i always have ♪ always will ♪ always always always will ♪ i always have ♪ ♪ always will ♪ always, always, always will ♪ i always have ♪ always will ♪ always, always will ♪ i always have ♪ ♪ always will ♪ always, always always will ♪ .

>> for more about this program and earlier episodes visit us online at pbs.org and charlie rose.quom. funding for charlie rose is provided by american express: additional funding provided by: and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news an information services worldwide. on the next newshour making sense of a tax break done all trump and bern ye sanders agrees ha

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ every single bite needed to be -- ♪ ♪ >> there are twinkies in there. >> wow! it's like a great, big hug in the cold city. >> it's about as spicy as i can handle and my parents put chili powder in my baby food. >> french fries all over the table and just a lot of