>> rose: welcome to the program. we begin with carpe with sandrad zoe kazan, their new movie is called brand bran. >> she's imperfect. she's not very pleasant and likable at first and you can pass judgment on why she is that way, and then you see deeper and deeper into this very flawed person and you have sympathy because you just see her struggling, and i think that represents everybody. we all want the brass ring but we're all struggling for it lled "room," starring brieson. larson and joan allen written by emma donoghue and directed by lenny abrahamson. >> what ma has to learn -- she helps him to escape and he helps

her to escape in a deeper way. she learns she can't go back to what she was. she has to accept that want she's had this life-changing and traumatizing experience and still decide that it's worth going on, and that's primarily in this world and primarily you have -- it has to do with how much her child loves her and how much she loves her child. >> rose: "our brand is crisis" and "room" when we continue. >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: american express. >> rose: additional funding provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide.

captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: "our brand is crisis" is the new film from director david gordon green. sandra bullock plays jane bodine who comes out of retirement to help elect a bolivian president. it's a character study of a cynic reaching her limit. here is the trailer for the film. >> she is the brightest and most innovative! >> the best campaign strategist in the game. >> responsible for the greatest political upset in history. >> you're a fighter, jane. i'm giving you another shot at the title. >> the presidential campaign in south america. >> a fragile democracy, a candidate in real trouble. our candidate considered arrogant and out of touch with people's lives. >> how far are you behind? 28 points. (laughter) >> jane bodine. pat. what are you doing here? i thought you retired or gave up

or something. >> what happened to your they m? you still have a great sense of humor. >> how many times have you gone against pat candy? >> three or four times. how many times has he beat you is this. >> three or four times. if security beats you up, you are doing your job right! get that beating on tape. wake up. this is war. only one wrong in this and that is losing. >> maybe check and see if anyone understood that. (speaking spanish) gracias. >> you should feel something in the interview like tears. could you just turn toward the camera. >> whoa, whoa, look at him. this is it! ♪ >> this actually kind of matters, jane. this country could go under.

we're talking about people's lives. you like to pretend you're not one of us. if you fight with monsters for too long, you become a monster. >> eddie, is this your neighborhood, where you live? >> what are we going to do? e are trying to save people's lives. these are at stake and i'm not going to stand by and watch as this nation falls apart. this is no longer an election. this is a crisis. >> we are going to shoot the commercial por favor. >> this leads to prosperity. no, no, marco! he killed himself rather than be in one of our commercials. (laughter) >> rose: > no animals were injured in the making of this film. no lamas, no dogs, no people.

(laable. debatable. >> rose: all right. here's the most interesting thing about this. as you know, i love poll the ticks and know the people this is kind of based on. this role was first thought of for george clooney. >> yeah, george developed it -- >> rose: george might have played the main character. >> yes, and it was going for about five years and nothing was happening when it crossed my cable and i thought, it would be better for me. >> rose: it would be better off for you. >> first you kill me then take my script. (laughter) but he had no problem, no issue. >> rose: the important thing is women looking for interesting roles, they don't necessarily have to be for men. >> no, absolutely not. men, women, everyone's looking for a role that isn't

conventional that i can till tell the story and move people. when i read it i didn't think of it as a male or female role. it had words and thoughts and complcomplications of a human bg that i thought, one day i would like to play something like this, this would be an amazing opportunity. >> rose: why is that? it's multi-dimensional. she's imperfect. she's not very pleasant and likable at first and you can pass judgment on why she's that way and then you see deeper and deeper into this very flawed person and you have sympathy because you just see her struggling and i think that represents everybody. you know, we all want the brass ring but we're all struggling for it probably for the wrong reason. >> rose: this is an act of revenge for her? >> yes. a combination of revenge, and i think an extreme addiction to the win and this person who was responsible for her demise played by billy bob thornton and he's used as the dangling carrot to pull her back into the world

that almost killed her the first time. >> rose: you can get back in. yes, they pull her back in. >> rose: who do you play? leblanc, i dig up dirt on the candidates. >> she's brilliant. she has the angelic demeanor. >> rose: i wouldn't do this, but she would -- (laughter) and this is based in part on kind of a real-life story because we have american political consultants who have gone out and in fact two of whom helped president obama get elected represented different parties in the most recent british election, as you well know. >> it's loosely based on a documentary called "our brand is crisis." they're hired to do a job. their hearts are in that job for that moment. the minute that job is complete, the clock is punched out and

most move on. my question and my thoughts were, like, is anyone affected by the consequences of that job? you know, and -- >> rose: the consequences of being a political -- >> not just in politics. >> rose: in any institution. in all big business, you know, you want to push a product, sell, convince the public and manipulate them so they do what you want and purchase what you're selling. we have so much of that anywhere in the world. you're pushing and pushing and say i must need that to make life better, but these consultants do it for a job, a position. they're hired to go down and make sure this man wins. >> rose: tell us what a challenge it was to help make this man win. >> well, we have a candidate who has previously done bad things for his country or caused civil unrest, so -- >> rose: terribly low poll ratings. >> very low poll ratings, and there's a line in the film about how, you know, they were in

desperate need of a change and we're feeding them the same thing that got them killed last time, and you see the brilliance of her character because she manages to turn that around. >> rose: how does she do that? by addressing what's in front of her. at the beginning before jane bodine comes in, they're trying to sell the candidate as something he's not. she comes in and says, no, you have to sell him for what he is. and she also says the line that gives us the title where she says we need to frame this election not as an election but a crisis, "our brand is crisis." >> rose: how do you do that? i think it's a scare tactic and that's what our characters employ in the film. you can see it being employed every day in the media. >> fear. it's a powerful thing. it can help you get results in a way that many things can't. >> rose: and you're saying that you know a hollywood executive just like this? >> well, yes, but i don't think they have that level of power.

the difference between hollywood and politics is that zoe said it really well in that hollywood is just for entertainment. it's for a job, to make money. you can choose whether to go see a movie or not. this is people's lives. this is people's futures. their children's futures. it's about someone vying for a job, a very high-powered, important job that, if not chosen well, there are grave consequences. >> rose: what is it that makes her good? >> what makes her good is that, unfortunately, her addiction is the win as well as other addictions. for her, the win -- the thrill of the win is one of her adictionaries, and they knew that by dangling the billy bob thornton character in front of her. they knew they were igniting the addict and she can't not go full-blown on the win. >> rose: if she goes

full-blown, she can win. >> she can, but she uses tactics that are incredibly unorthodox. there is a sad line in the film meaning she's disposable, meaning she has no family, no children, she has no value other than the fact she will go rogue, is unorthodox, will do things they won't do, because they have to keep their hands clean. if she does it and is successful, it's great and if not it's a shame and they can dispose of her. >> rose: are you like her in you're called in to do the dirty work. >> yeah, i thought about leblanc as being using her brain in a moral way. way. she thinks about the job as being just that, a job. part of it is how jane bodine stands apart from these

operatives in her donning for a consciousness. >> rose: who calls her calamity jane? >> everyone because of the degree of chaos she brings to whatever candidate she's backing. that's what makes her unorthodox and tricky and valuable and a liability. you know, a lot of risk in deploying her. >> rose: if she's on the campaign, she wants leblanc with her. >> yes, and that the what i love. she brings in this incredibly smart, understated woman who you go, so you need this person to help you do your job? and you see how smart she is in her recruitment of leblanc, on relying on leblanc to find out the information. she knows how smart she is. >> rose: and what's her attraction to candy? >> you wanted to say john. >> rose: there was a moment i quickly said. >> i know, i saw your eyes, but you can edit. (laughter) the attraction to candy is what you actually see as a viewer, as

a moviegoer when you watch him in this role and n that he's absolutely evil and sinister on one level and on the other level, you love him. and he respects her and she him. but i think he respects her in a little different way than she him because he can distance himself. he can do the job, pubch out the the clock and say let's get a drink, what you do is amazing, i want you on my team. for her, it's personal because he goes after her on a deeply, deeply personal level. and it's interesting because it does make you think of what people grow a conscience and have conscienceness and look at the consequences and what people can simply look at it as a job and move on. >> rose: is this rare, though, to see a leading female actor play a role written for a man? >> yeah. >> rose: it's rare? it is. >> rose: and you know it would

set a trend in the sense that roles should not necessarily be a gender or even age or even nationality. >> that would be a beautiful thought and thing to aspire to. angelyne was originally written for a man. emily blunt was getting ready to play something written for a plan, shelley cerron. some things are gender specific that have to be a woman or a man a, but it's kind of nice to think the mindset will be expanded and the opened mindedness will stay and it not be a trend and you go, wow, we have this and it wasn't really working. what if we thought of it as a male or female instead of a female-male and it will breathe new life into it and give it a different spark and perspective. knock on wood, i hope that happens. >> rose: with the academy award and everything else, are you pretty much where you want to be? >> i am so where i want to be. honestly, there is nothing i -- people say what next?

after "gravity" i was, like, there is nothing else to do, unless there is something i really want to say. i don't do things for money, i don't do things because they're going to be wildly successful. no one thought "gravity" would be wildly successful. so when this came along -- >> rose: did you do them for what? >> this i did because i was thinking about the essence of this film, which to me was, you know, communities getting together for peaceful public protest for issues and change, and are we too complacent and do we feel too scared to step out of our comfort to do that nowadays? am i too scared? would i do it for my son? absolutely, but would i do it for the greater good for people i don't even know? you know, when you look back 40 or 50 years and you see people sacrificing for my freedom's now and my son's freedom. so that had been on my mind a lot. >> rose: really sort of closed the circle. >> i didn't realize there was

something missing till he entered my life and i realize i have a whole other life i have to explore. >> rose: what are you doing? i barrel forward and i am grateful for what i have and what i have i obviously don't need, and then you have something so full of life, and you make a sharp right and you see things in a different light. you see different routes. you see different opportunities, you know. things become more important and less important and, you know, i'm lucky. i don't -- i can stay home with my son and watch him grow. i know there is families out there who are, like, i would rather stay home with you than have to go work two jobs just so i can spend, you know, three hours with you at dinner, and i think about that and i grieve because i can't do that. i cannot stay -- just being gone from him these last three days is torture. i'm being long winded. >> rose: it's fine here.

what have you learned from her? i don't know of anybody i think is more fun and spontaneous than this lady. but as an actress, you understand much more about that than i do. >> yeah. i learn so much from watching sandy on set. the way she comes into a scene, even when it looks like nothing, two people entering the room before the scene starts, she finds some way to bring her creativity into that, in a way where it wasn't about trying to make herself look better but make the movie look better. she thinks so much like a storyteller at all times. little things you see in the movie, like her entering the room and her baguettes caught on the handle of the door or she goes to give a speech and her foot goes to the chair.

she brought this physical coldy. sitting in toronto and watching with the audience, every time one of those things happened, i could feel the audience lean toward her. it's a hard character to like and i thought it was smart to have her status drop at these moments and people would laugh with her and got on her side. everyone's had a moment where their foot goes through a chair metaphorically or literally. >> can i have your attention, please! everyone -- oh... we're going to do something to rivera that no politician wants to have done to him. we're going to define him. the attack line is he's a crook, corrupt, inexperienced and he lies. every day, we are going to ring the big bell -- (speaking spanish)

>> -- and spoon feed them the rivera story, we'll give him every quote, everyone he's ever met and look for ways to use it against him. if anyone has any qualms or think this is wrong in some way, talk to me, i will rent you a nice set of balls because there is only one wrong in this, only one, and that is losing! >> maybe check and see if anyone understood that... (speaking spanish) gracias. >> also, just the way sandy conducts herself on set, obviously everyone enjoys being in her company but the way she treats everyone is so equal, and i know from talking to her that she really thinks about the world that way. but a movie set that can be very stressful,ess special when you're the lead and the executive producer, it can be hard to keep your cool and feel

there is space for everyone as ewell as space for me to do that work. and the way she made the space for herself and everyone at home was inspiring. >> rose: do you want to be a filmmaker? >> she is a film director. >> rose: i mean the total package. >> i directed a short film just to educate myself because i love production, i love the producing side, i love working with a group, much more actually than i like being in front of the camera. i like the camaraderie that human beings can collaborate, argue, debate and offer a final end result. i love the time line, the clicking clock, the rush of all that. >> rose: there is nothing inside of you that needs to be a star? >> to, absolutely not. it's weird because i'm innocent and i try to look at it these days as such a blessing, but i feel uncomfortable in the light. i don't feel secure in the light. i feel empowered and excited in

the group, in production, and that's why i sort of tested the waters again to see if i could do producing again and still be the mom i wanted to be to louie. >> rose: did you find that? i did and i loved it. there were higher boundaries than when i was free, didn't have a ball and chain. (laughter) but life wasn't as good! >> rose: let me make sure i understood what ball and chain meant. >> my son. (laughter) but it's that little ball and chain, it's the greatest weight. it grounded me and made me say i can do this if these parameters were met and they were, and we were able to make a beautiful film on the budget that we were given in the time line we were given when no one's making these kinds of films anymore. i want to make a film like this and inspire people to feel and laugh so we can keep making

them. they won't break box office records but it's a film we need to make. >> rose: did you film it in bolivia? >> primarily new orleans, puerto rico, which ended up being bolivia. he had three days in bolivia with the main cast. >> rose: did you talk to these guys, men and women who are political strategists and gurus and spin masters and all of that? >> no, we seem to be surrounded by them. we don't have to seek them out. >> rose: you know what they did. >> yeah. i've only seen the back of his head at family dinners in new orleans. >> rose: didn't do that. (laughter) >> no, because it was all right there for you in the script. it's all right for you. and george and grant, i know them personally, that's their whole world. but we know those people. again, it's not just politics. to me, this film wasn't about

politics, it was about the almighty win and how lost we've gotten in the acquisition of it. >> rose: would you like to work with george again? >> oh, yeah. >> rose: i hate the question but -- >> no, it's nice because we both knew each other when we had no jobs. >> rose: did you date. never ever dated. >> rose: what is wrong with him? >> he helped me date one of his friends. he's a great match maker. >> rose: why didn't he date you? >> he threatened the film saying if you don't take her i will. george and i are basically the same person, we would kill eachouter. >> rose: it's the same thing with julia. >> is it? >> rose: probably nobody like you. >> well, you don't have to date everyon to love them. we smartly stayed away from that pool. >> rose: can i quote you on that? >> if you want to make a t-shirt, you can. you don't have to date someone to love them. >> rose: that's pretty good.

that's a hallmark t-shirt. (laughter) >> rose: and then you can say, you know, believe me... my beloved so son is like a ball and chain. >> ball and chain, and points down to a child. >> rose: that will do it, too! (laughter) >> thank you. i now have a side business to allow me to support my son. >> and give him a cut of it. >> rose: maybe, maybe not. what do i have to do to get my 10%? a loss, you know, and for me it was, if you need to make that change, if you find that whatever rabbit hole you've gotten into in hyphis killing you physically or soulfully, you know, it's getting off that

carousel is hard, it's daunting, it's the unknown, but you just have to get off. >> rose: so this is a catharsis for her? >> big time, and that's what i loved about the quotes throughout the film. she's always quoting other people, keeping people at a distance. when we got to tend, we're shooting a scene that happens at the end and we need a quote, and i realized we had no quotes that were by a woman. so i said, female inspiring quotes that sort of really put a spotlight on the end scene without us having to really overtalk it, and i came across the quote, if you don't like the road you're on, start paving another one. >> rose: who said that? dolly parton. (laughter) >> rose: a song? no, it's dolly being wise. do we save dolly parton and have the humor or let it sit? we let it sit instead of bringing up her name and putting a smile on your face.

>> rose: have you ever been in a rabbit hole? >> daily. >> rose: i'm serious. to me, the rabbit hole is questioning your authenticity, allowing yourself to be swayed by public opinion or your neighbor's opinion or your own thoughts which mine can be very loud and then waking up and realizing i have completely gone off the road i'm supposed to be on because that's daily and i think if you're not honest about it it's become shameful. i'm easily swayed and i go, this is not where i'm supposed to be. i know where it is but i tend to look a lot. >> rose: why don't you write a book? >> because it would put people to sleep. all about me -- katharine hepburn, wasn't that it? no, i will never write a book, never. >> rose: but you have a lot to say. >> yeah, but it's empty words and fills airspace. >> rose: okay, then make a

movie. >> i just did! that's why i'm here with you! god you are just impossible! i need to leave. i need out of here. (laughter) >> rose: if you didn't have a movie to sell, you wouldn't be sitting at this table? >> exactly, you never invite me when i'm just home, doing the school thing. have you ever asked me to come enlighten you? >> rose: never. exactly, then why ask me to write a book? (laughter) you are the showman, the politician. you see? didn't i tell you he could be fun? he's a liar but he's fun. >> rose: go see the damn movie! (laughter) >> people at home are going, do i see it? i don't know if he meant that! >> rose: it's so great to see you. >> thank you. i appreciate it. this is the last one. you are the end! >> rose: well, thank you! saving the best for last! this is why --

>> rose: you can express what you really meant in. >> words i don't understand. finale. >> finale, what does that mean? (laughter) >> rose: is that something from the movie? tell me one more time? >> no, but it should have been. a beautiful writer, this one. >> rose: this yon 1:00? really? >> extraordinary writer. why is your hand up. this is not that kind of movie. >> as a producer i applaud your vision. >> thank you very much! >> rose: as your friend, i would advise against it. >> she's a writer. >> rose: what did you write. i've had three plays produced and i wrote a movie that got produced a couple of years ago called ruby sparks i also acted

in. >> rose: do you love writing more than anything? >> no. >> rose: producing? no, no, i don't think so. they feel like complimentary things in my head to me. i like to collaborate, what sandy was saying about being on set, i think i would feel very lonely if it was just me in my room all the time, and i like the physical of the actor, having to go in and embody something instead of using your words and letting emotion speak for you instead. i just learn a lot from doing it. there is a weird high when everything clicks when you're acting. feels like chasing that moment like you're chasing the dragon all the time, and that high, i think, keeps me going, like i want to feel that again, and that high comes much more rarely when you're writing. like you can have a great day writing but it's only you and your brain.

it keeps me sane between acting jobs and allows me to use the part of my brine i don't get to use as an actor. >> rose: do parts help you understand yourself? >> yeah. i think it helps you take ownership of yourself because, i mean, at least for me, you spend a lot of time hiding what you see as a flaw or weakness, then you read it on the page and go i understand this, and then youj3 can spend three months to six months using that, and it becomes an asset. and i think by putting it out there and not shying away or hiding it, you're neutralizing it and it no longer has the weight it had before. >> rose: what characteristic of jane would you like to inherit in your own life? >> well, her brain for one. being able to be that conniving -- being able to think on her feet the way she does, know human nature enough that she can see what's happening over here and react and have an opposing reaction happen with her candidate. i think that's an amazing trait.

i don't have that strength. and that's not a great trait, but i secretly would love to have that. >> rose: you would love to be tougher? >> a little bit. >> rose: i'm not sure it's toughness. >> manipulative. the way she can manipulate without apology, i think is really cool. and to be able to use it for good and not for evil. but to be able to have it without conscience, i think just for a day would be really nice. >> yeah. >> rose: thank you for finally getting around to me. >> well, you're hard to get ahold of. >> rose: great to meet you. nice to meet you. so nice to meet you. >> rose: after you heard such terrible things. (laughter) >> yeah, exactly. >> rose: thank you for coming. thank you for having us again. >> rose: back in a moment. stay with us. >> two years ago, the office purchased 27 ford explorers purposely used for the district, sale priced 35k each, photocopies of the actual

receipt, they claimed 40,000 each, that is $135,000 of taxpayers' money going into someone's pockets. >> bad boy! you actually are a crook! it would be great if we got shot or people driving these things and picking up hookers or something. >> where did you get these receipts? >> black box, buckley. >> rose: "room" is the new film by director lenny abrahamson. brie larson and jacob tremblay star as a mother and son who have been held captive in a shed for ten years. variety calls the film a suspenseful and heart-wrendle drama that finds perhaps the most extreme metaphor for how time, regret and the end of childhood can make unknowing captives of us all. here is the trailer for "room."

♪ one evening when the sun was down and the jungle fire was burning ♪ ♪ down the tracks came a hobo hiking ♪ ♪ and he was turning ♪ >> i guess they still can't hear us. do you remember how alice is always in wonder land. >> she fell down down deep in a hole. >> i wasn't always in a room. i'm like alice. >> i'm scared! know. tuck, wiggle out, jump, run. ♪ the big rock candy mountain

♪ >> thanks for saving my little boy! >> you're gonna love it. >> rose: joining me are two of the film's stars, brie larson and joan allen, director lenny abrahamson and writer emma donoghue. i'm enormously pleased to have them. this is a remarkable achievement. congratulations to all of you. >> thank you. >> rose: and there is so much to read into it. is this the movie -- is this what your imagination saw as you were writing this, the screenplay, and thinking about writing the book in the first place? >> i didn't see all this, no. the film adds so much to a book. it does things that a book can't do. cinema's got other powers, so when i read the book again, i'll see them, you know. >> rose: but this is the story as you imagined the story. >> absolutely. it's the cinematic equivalent of, and i'm so happy with it,

especially as the book is so much in jack's head. the book is an exercise in point of view of a 5-year-old, but the film is about him and ma equally, so i think we added something that wasn't there in the book. >> rose: what's the lesson of this? just elaborate on what you feel like you were creating. >> i do think it's, in a sense, about everybody's childhood in that we all have a small-scale childhood and we all move out into the bigger world, but we do it gradually. jack does it overnight, so i did want this very peculiar, specific story to have a much more universal feel about, you know, the love between parent and child and about how it can seem like a claustrophobic bond at times but also a magical bond and about the way the child is always, in a sense, moving past their parents and out into the bigger world. >> rose: the relationship between child and parent.

>> yeah. >> rose: so the challenge for you? one room. >> yeah. that was one of the big challenges. half the film takes place in a 10x10 box which presents a lot of challenges. we think cinema is about wide open spaces and fast camera movement, but what we set up for ourselves is could we turn this small space into a whole world also for the audience, because we're trying to capture something of the little boy's sense of the place and, therefore, the task is not to make it feel small and contained but to make it feel rich and full and store idea and a place where a complete childhood can be acted out. >> rose: and that depends on the mother to a large extent? >> sure, because ma in the novel, the mother in the novel is so resourceful, creative and cranes and she, in a more intensified context, does what all parents do, which is try to

construct something safe, warm, enriching and stimulating for her child. so i think as emma said, there are universal patterns that we're looking at and that one, the way in which a parent is the sort of constructer of a set of safe stories and myths and also just a giver of love, this is that story but it's in a very high-stakes and very pressurized environment. >> rose: so you know what you were getting when you had brie and joan. how about jacob? >> well, jake is the single greatest stroke of luck in the whole history of this project, i think. >> rose: he plays jack? he plays jack. he was seven when i met him. he plays 5 which he thought was a little demeaning (laughter) >> it was very hard for him because he would improvise and

act he didn't know certain timetables and we would yell cut and he would turn to me and say, i really need the answer to that. >> so when i met him, you know, we went through a long casting process and there were fairs at -- fears at various points we might not find a child young enough but able to do this, and jake came along and has all the equipment of a great actor. he's just learning to use it in this very small package. i think even into rehearsal and the first week, we all knew we were taking a huge leap and gamble, what if it's too much for him? just even the demands of a shoot and the length of hours he has to work, but he loves it and he rose to it and i think he's, you know, given us something pretty extraordinary in the film. >> rose: what was your challenge in terms of this one room with this one young boy?

>> well, it was the creating of it. once we were in room, it was actually quite easy and comforting to be in there, because we sort of knew what we were doing when we went in to there and it became this portal that we had created for ourselves. so lenny and i spent about eight month prior building this character, building ma, because, in emma's book, she's anyone's mom and she is told through the eyes of a 5-year-old, so she is a god-like figure in the movie. so you don't really get a true sense of what she looks like. you don't get a sense of her own struggle through it. so first we had to speak with a lot of specialists and try to understand how this trauma would affect this woman, how the lack of sunlight and the poor nutrition and the sexual abuse, how all of that would create this person that we would see that you can see right on her face the second that first frame opens up. and then we built all of those toys, and every single piece that was in the room had to have

justification and a story behind it. it had to be real and known to us. everything down to the rags that i used to clean the floor were jacks old baby clothes that we cut up. >> rose: and you're playing the role of a kidnapped parent? >> mm-hmm. yes. >> rose: how do you see it? think it's one of the worst things that can happen to a parent is to lose your child and not know where they are. it was interesting because when i came and did some rehearsal before the film was shot sequentially, i met with brie and lenny and jake a little bit because we didn't want jake to get too familiar with me which i think was really wise. the room was being built on stage and i made a choice not to look at it. joan really wanted to look at it. but i was, like, the mother, she would never know where her daughter was and what a horrible thing that is.

so that was a very -- you know -- >> rose: because it would somehow make the fear different, wouldn't it, if you knew what it was like. >> it would because of just the imaginings of what it could be. she's probably imagining it being a lot worse than it even was, and i didn't want to see that either, you know. i just wanted to have that, you know, sort of blank slate. >> rose: let's take a look at this. this is a -- where -- trying to explain to jack that there is more in life than the world that he sees. here it is. >> do you remember how alice wasn't always in wonderland? >> she fell down, down, down deep in a hole. >> okay, well i wasn't always in a room. i was like alice. i was a little girl named joy. >> yeah. and i lived in a house with my mom and dad, you would call

them grandma and grandpa. >> what house? a house! we had a backyard and a hammock. we would swing in the hammock and eat ice cream. >> a tv house? no, jack, a rile house, not tv. are you listening to me? when i was a little older, when i was 17, i was walking home from school. >> where was i? you were still up in heaven. but there was a guy, he pretended his dog. >> what guy? we called him old nick, i don't know what his real name. but he pretended his doggish. >> what's the dog's name? there wasn't a dog, jack! mefs trying to trick me -- he was trying to trick me! >> ain't different story! no, this is the story you get! he put me in his garden shed here! room is the shed. >> rose: hard to watch? yeah. it makes me feel emotional still every time i watch the clip.

>> rose: literally feeling what she was feeling and trying to explain to the kid. >> i guess just jacob's face kills me every time. >> rose: what gets me is the insistence of the kid. >> what's important about this is it speaks to everybody's experience is this is actually a good -- for jake, this is a good place, not due to the fact his mother is protecting him, he's never seen any abuse, we never see any abuse in the film, it's implied. so she has created a pretty good world for him, and then when she tries to break him out of it, it's like the way kids don't want to learn there is father christmas, or whatever. sometimes they suspect it but -- i've had that conversation with my little boy. so he doesn't want this thing to be -- he doesn't want to discover that things are not right. he wants to believe that the story that she tells him is true. and that's what i think is remarkable about emma's book is

because she has created an analog for childhood. she put it in this place which we show -- i think we can be truth. it's not a fairytale but, yes, it's still kind of manages to capture something of the magic of childhood. >> rose: interesting is you shot it chronologically. >> yes. >> rose: why? well, the justification i gave when i was making the case for -- with ed the producer, is it would help jake because it's tough enough to do these things yourself but it's harder if they're jumbled up when you're seven. it allowed us to work organically so things that we found worked well in the room section, we were able to echo these in the second half and make adjustments in the end. it's a wonderful luxury i may never have again but i think it

helped us in this case. >> rose: is it lucky to have the person who not only wrote the screenplay but created the characters? >> gets in the way sometimes! (laughter) >> we got on, and it apparently is not always that way. >> rose: did you call her and say, what were you doing here or we're going to do this direction even though it's not faithful? >> yeah, but we had those conversations all the way through. how long did we work together? >> two years. and we never used the word "faithful." we were looking for an equivalent. >> rose: not to the book? no, we said what happens in the book, let's try to find an equivalent that's cinematic, but were never comparing like accounts, no. >> rose: this is a scene in which brie is breaking down to joan. you will like this one. >> you need to play with something real. i'm worried about him being on

the phone. i'd appreciate it if you didn't give him your phone. >> okay, well, great. i just want him to connect with something. >> joy, joy... he's really doing fine. >> i don't know what's i don't g with me! i'm supposed to be happy! >> you need to rest, okay? no, i don't! i don't need to rest! >> that's what the doctor said. is not what the doctor said! you don't know what he said because it was a confidential conversation! you don't know what he said! >> all right! all right! you're impossible to talk to right now! >> i'm sorry. you're not sorry! no, i'm not sorry! you have no idea what's going on in my head! >> tell me!

i've asked you! >> when you look at me that's all you will see! >> when i look at you, i will see my daughter! >> rose: first of all, congratulations. and toiyou -- look at that... it's interesting, i assume you shot that with one camera, different angles. >> yeah, we may have used one on jake when we were shooting the adults because sometimes he just did things so good to capture. >> rose: because they were so real and authentic. >> yeah, he would do something and you nay not be able to get him to do it again. >> rose: it's so different from what we do in terms of filming something like that because we would have, like, five cameras and you would sit in an editing room and choose what you wanted. >> this is sequential and repetition and -- >> rose: and would you get better performances and, therefore, you would take a different angle than you might have expected because the performance from that side view was even better -- >> in that very scene, the first

couple of takes which we shot the wide master shot first, and i don't always do that because sometimes you get these -- in this case, actually, the first two takes were really spectacular. brie, i remember you were just -- it was full on and we used that angle a lot. and, in fact, it works -- >> it's true. i remember i scared myself by how much anger was coming out of me straight out of the gate. >> so sometimes you just go, well, you choose the performance over the angle or, in this case, i think it kind of works to hang back a little bit, it stops it from becoming too overdramatized by just sitting back a little bit. >> rose: how does the relationship change outside the room? >> well, a lot. i think there is a lot in that second half, it's a lot about expectation and how beautiful it is to not have one. so jack comes into this world not knowing what anything is, and so he gets to come at it from a place of curiosity. at times feeling a little

disoriented by everything but he's still getting to know it all. it's a new strange world he can explore, and you sort to see how adaptable a child, is vs. joy is coming to terms with this very bizarre situation where she was a 17-year-old girl in this bedroom, kept completely in tact and it's this dream of hers for seven years to go back to it and to be who she was, but when she returns home, she realizes there isn't anything there for her anymore as who she was. she can't put on the same clothes she wore before and traipse about and go about with the same goals she had before. she's matured in a way. she has grown, and she's outgrown even the confinements of this childhood home. but she's trying to find a way to bridge the gap between the two and, so, you're watching almost two different people. you get to know ma so well in the room that she's this person that you love and you know and

you feel her struggle and when she gets outside of it she becomes at times a teenager. ning that last clip was the moment we were all really excited about is showing this, like, sudden, like, she's talking in this way that that's a teenager, that's not ma, that's not this compassionate, patient, understanding person. she's completely reverted back and in a funny way part of that came from the concept of, you know, it doesn't matter how old you get or how much time you have to do charity work, you could be meditating 24 hours a day in the himalayas, the second you come home from the holidays you immediately become an 18-year-old again. so it was all about trying to find the truth to this situation but also the universal nature of it, that it's something that we could always -- it never seemed like the spectacle as you're watching it. it always felt as it was going, it was getting closer and closer

to you. >> rose: the kidnapping in the room was a dramatic means for you to tell a story you want to tell. but what do you know about people who want to imprison other people? >> we eliberately kept the role of the captor not big or dominant in the movie because we've all seen so many movie and tv shows that focus on the fascinating psyc psychopath and killer. i'm sick of it. i find the survivors so much more interesting. so we didn't want to write about another anonymous girl. we wanted to start the story seven years in so the point is not about the kidnapping, knot is about anything sexy, it's about a mother and a child who is about old enough to be enlisted as pa partner in the escape. so we don't tell about the captor, don't give him flashbacks or explanations. woe show him getting arrested but don't show the court case because we don't want to let him set the terms. >> rose: i is the escape the

dramatic moment? >> the most obvious dramatic climax is in the middle. but we start the story again to ask what is freedom in a fuller sense, not just the open door. >door. brie's character has anticipated this escape for seven years, but i think the point we always talked about was that it is an escape story, but the escape doesn't happen in the middle when the physical escape occurs. the real escape doesn't happen till the end. so what we do is it's like a full climax. you want it to be fully resolved after they come out because it's very exciting and emotional and i think as an audience you want it to be resolved. so you're in a way somewhat in a position of brie's character, you think this is it, and then the film holds that and says, you know what? have a think about this because if you came back into the world after an experience like this, there is a whole other journey to go on.

>> rose: what's the journey? i think the journey is -- i think what ma has to learn and jack has to -- ma helps jack escape and he in a way in the second half helps her to escape in that other deeper way. and i think what she learns is that she can't go back to what she was. she has to sort of accept she's had this life-changing and traumatizing experience. and still decide it's worth going on, and that's primarily in this world and primarily has to do with how much her child loves her and how much she loves her child, and that's why i think the ending of the film is very emotional for audiences because there is a tremendously hopeful note after the journey that they've gone on, and you feel -- i think it earns it as well. it's not just saying glibly, you know, love is all that matters and life goes on. it show you how a person has to

fight for that and can still reach that point. >> rose: can we ask the question where is joy at the end of the film without giving away the end of the film? >> you mean mentally? >> rose: yes. um, i think that there is a first breath of relief, a first breath of letting go of one story, and it's coming to terms with -- it's speaking of what lenny said, that no matter how hard she tries to get away from this thing that happened to her, her son will forever be for the rest of her life this living, growing, delightful representation of that period of time, and she can't run away from it. it's inescapable. he is here. so instead of spending -- and we watch her for 40 minutes of the movie do everything she possibly can to remove herself from that situation and move on and get away from it, she realizes, as

we do, as we grow, that we can't escape our pain, we can't ignore it, but what we can do is learn how to hold hands with it and love it and grow with it and walk into whatever that horizon is with it. >> rose: thank you, brie. great to have you here. thank you, joan. thank you, lenny, emma. "room." congratulations again. thank you for joining us. see you next time. for more about this program and earlier episodes, visit us online at pbs.org and charlierose.com.

♪ >> announcer: this is "nightly business report," with tyler mathisen and sue herera. no trick but a treat. october turned out not to be scary at all for investors as stocks logged their best month in four years. so what does that mean for the rest of 2015? mega madness. this week's market monitor says you should capitalize on mega trend stocks and he has three names for you. and madoff rebound. what bernie madoff has to do with this year's world series. all that and more for friday october 30th. good evening, everybody, and welcome. october is usually a month associated with fright and ghouls and goblins. and the month typically is approached with a wary eye from investors as well. but this october was anything but