>> rose: welcome to the program. we begin this evening with a new film called "spotlight," a true story of a group of reports at the "boston globe" who investigated the catholic church in boston. we talked to the reporters and the actors who play them. >> these guys are not asking the catholic church to do anything more than what they did themselves which is to look at the truth, expose it and right the wrongs. that's one of the beauties of the film that isn't talked about very much is how much institutions had to be part of it. it takes a village to raise a child, it takes a village to abuse one, too. >> rose: we conclude with larry wilmore of comedy central, his program is the nightly "charlie rose" with larry nighte

nightly show with larry wilmore. >> every show has class, race or gender. >> rose: "spotlight," the movie and larry wilmore of comedy central when we continue. >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> rose: additional funding provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: we begin talking about journalism and religion

and politics and filmmaking. the revelation of systemic sexual abuse is one of the biggest scandals of the catholic church. the "boston globe" exposed the pedophilia and subsequent coverups in 2002. won pulitzer prize for public service and led to exposing similar scandals worldwide. leer ihere is the trailer for te film. >> i know there are things you can't tell me but i also know there is a story and i think everybody ought to hear about it. >> you think your paper has the resources to take that on? >> i do. do you? >> the boston priests molested kids in six different parishes over the last 30 years. the church found out and did nothing. >> we haven't committed long-term investigative resources to the case.

>> no, we haven't and that's the kind of thing your team would do. >> spotlight? everybody is going to be interested in this. >> obviously the church will fight us very hard. >> trying to get background information. >> i don't want you recording this in any way shape or form, nothing. u're a kid from a poor.ofettled family, when a priest pays attention to you, it's a big deal. how do you say no to god? >> spotlight. you think you've got something? >> we need to focus from the institution. >> show me the game from the top down. >> i'll silence anyone who speaks out. >> you won't hear me? 6% act out sexually. 90 priests. if there were 90, people would know. >> maybe they do. you're going to give me the names and the names of their victims. >> are you threatening me?

i was doing my job. yeah, you and everyone else. i am here because i care. we're going to tell this story, we're going to tell it right. >> i hope we can keep this between us till we all get on the same page. >> is that why we're here, to get on the same page? >> we have true stories here, a story about degenerate clergy and about a bunch of lawyers turning child abuse into a cottage industry. which story do you want us to write? because we're writing one of 'em. >> i'm not crazy. this is not just boston. it's the whole country! the whole world! >> they knew and they let it happen! it could have been you, me, any of us! >> rose: joining me director and co-screenwriter tom mccarthy, actors michael keaton and mark ruffalo and

"spotlight" editors sacha pfeiffer and michael rezendes. i am pleased to have them at this table. did they capture what happened? >> it's scary. they us. they nailed us. the story as we developed it is what appears on the film. the reporting, the stumbling around in the dark, wandering, arguments amongst us and the story we got to because it was so important. >> they got it? yeah. >> rose: what does it say about journalism, this story of "spotlight," at it's best? >> it's a reminder that the press is so important in our society that but for reporters already lots of victimized populations around who have no voice, and that press is slowly disappearing right in front of all of us, and there hasn't been a great public cry of alarm

about it. >> rose: about the disappearance of that kind of investigative reporting? >> that's correct. >> rose: yeah. your reaction to the film? >> i thought it was stunning the way they captured the stanc sube of what we did. >> rose: surprised? yeah, i was surprised. a couple of amazing things about this movie -- one is it actually got made and, two, it's really good. >> rose: captures the drama of the moment? >> it really does. it captures the importance of what we did, the way we felt about it, the way we lived our lives at that time, pretty remarkable. >> i've talked to michael and mark about this, the public sees glamorous things about being actors. they could have played us any way they want. they studied us so intently they did marionisms we didn't know we had. >> he has mannerisms --

>> rose: he's copying you now. (laughter) tell us how you thought you could make this movie. >> i was immediately compelled when approached by the computers and at that point secured the rights of the people and "the globe" that the story depicts. it's the story, we all know boston. in comes an outsider and day one set sights on the catholic church, arguably the most irish catholic city in the country, and it's one thing about the hook. dug into the material with my co-writer josh singer, and we realized how rich the story was and we're especially connected to the investigation which is what the story portrays, and the tireless, at times tedious, sometimes dramatic and ultimately thrilling work -- >> rose: did you go watch any

of the movies like watergate and all the president's men -- >> i'm a director and i love movies and you cannot ignore all the president's men. i don't care if you care about journalism, it's great movies. preparing for this, the last thing i wanted to do was watch that movie or any other movie about journalism. our plan was to commit to the story in front of us. >> rose: and the story, your definition? >> you have marty, he read an article in "the globe" the first thing in boston, eileen mcnamara wrote an article saying a local attorney had knowledge of the crimes and the simple question is what do we do about that. >> you really kept us focused on not just fighting the story -- >> rose: marty did? he said what we're trying to do is show whether church

officials covered up for priests. >> the key for marty is the column discussed church documents that had been turned over and placed under a confidentiality order. the columnists eileen mcnamara used was "the truth may never be known." and that got to marty and said journalists should never settle for that statement statement, it's our job to find the truth. >> rose: it's how hard it is to find the truth and how many obstacles are put in your way. that's the sense of journalism that you car chiewrd. nobody walks in and says, here's the story, run with it. >> josh and i were committing to authenticity. we thought the investigation on its own is so compelling and the material and the stakes are so high, the welfare of children and survivors, we hear their stories. we committed to the details. we had the great luxury of their complete collaboration, the reporters themselves, along with

us every step of the way. >> rose: how did that work, mark? >> it was, to be honest, a luxury. tom had set the framing of the search for the truth, and i had the truth sitting there with me, i just had to -- >> rose: hello, truth! (laughter) >> i had to go and dig it up. i had to make sure that i could be honest and get as much information about what was happening inside the truth. >> rose: did you have to make any mid corrections here? >> well, you know, i just want to say the trust factor here was very big, and mark came to my home and he opened up a notebook and he turned on his iphone and he started asking me questions not just about how i did my job but why i did the job. >> rose: the motivation? exactly. i was really taken aback and thought this is kind of intrusive, actually. >> we're turning the tables on

people all the time. we experienced what it is to be grilled and ask intensely personal questions like how did the project affect your marriage and thought, whoa, is this going to be in the movie? >> they have to work for the information and they work really hard. we ultimately respected that. >> they did, i swear, some days, i think, as much or more research about what we did than we actually did back in 2001, between josh and tom, original documents, contemporaneous e-mails, all of our recollections on tape, and then they went and interviewed everybody else who had been involved in the story outside th"the globe." >> rose: michael, you once thought about being a journalist when we did an interview out in california. >> i did mention it. i've always liked it. when i was young, like a little kid, i liked it on some level. as i tell people, you know, i

was reading the sports section. so i always did. i took one course and i really, really enjoyed it. why i couldn't, i couldn't tell you. but i've always been interested. the thing about what mark and everyone said, mark, i think, was probably much more thorough than i was. the beauty was, you know, a lot of times when you create a character, you create something. we had it. i mean, i had it. just open up the book and there it is. >> rose: we have been talking about marty baron. here is a clip in which he is speaking to the papal's legal counsel. >> i'd like to challenge the protective order in the kagan case. >> you want to sue the catholic church? >> we're just filing a motion, but, yes. >> you think it's that

important? >> yes, i do. because, obviously, the church will fight us very hard on this, which won't go unnoticed by our subscriber base. 53% of them are catholic. >> mm-hmm. i think they'll be interested. >> rose: so the royal battle is on with the catholic church? >> one great institution in boston, the globe, pitted against the preeminent, in many people's mind, institution, the catholic church, yes. >> rose: what do we know about cardinal law during all of this? >> it's very hard to know because he seldom granted interviews. the globe used to get one interview a year with him. >> rose: like at christmas? like as christmas, but it was much anticipated and i don't recall very much was ever said but we published it nonetheless because he was the cardinal archbishop of boston and in many ways the most powerful figure in

massachusetts. if the church wanted something passed into law, it happened. if they wanted to block something, it didn't happen. >> rose: where is "spotlight" today? >> "spotlight" is still going strong. in fact, i'm still on the "spotlight" team and, thanks to marty baron, we have more reporters on the "spotlight" tell me than we did in 2001. >> rose: so at least hung tore do investigative reporting. >> a hunger and a commitment to do it. i think at "the globe," i mean, after this story we should know better than anyone how important it is and that commitment remained. the commitment toll investigative reporting has remained. >> this team is not only larger but is basically a companion s.w.a.t. team where they do quicker turnaround stories unlike the older version where people could be out of the paper a year. so it's really nimble and i think we all realize when you give time and resources to

reporters this is what can be accomplished. >> will it make kids want to do what you guys do? >> i hope more it makes people who consume news, buy your newspaper and get home delivery. >> rose: don't be cynical about journalism. >> right. without good reporting, i mean, democracy won't work. people have to have information to make basic decisions. so it's likely critically important. >> rose: michael, i think you said you considered yourself the coach of the team, is that right? >> i couldn't stand just to be the coach. i'd love to get in the trenches and do what we all do which is to find stuff out. we get out of bed and want to know what's happening. to be on a team like this where you can have months to take on a really important subject and particularly in this case come

up with something that really makes a difference in people's lives in a very positive way. >> rose: and clearly. take a look at. this this is where marty baron tells "spotlight" how to pursue the story again. here it is. >> that's why i had the reaction. i knew there were others. >> i think that's the bigger story. >> the numbers clearly indicate that there were senior clergy involved. >> that's all they do. if we start with 50 pedophile priests in boston -- >> you get into the same cat fight as porter which made a lot of noise by changed things not one bit. (sighing) we need to focus on the institution, not the individual priests. practice and policy. show me the church manipulated it so these guys wouldn't have to face charges. show me they put the same priests back into parishes time

and time again. show me it was systemic and came from the top-down. >> sounds like we're going after law. >> rose: >> rose: you guys knew that from the beginning, you were going after law? >> we were going after the system. we were looking at the hierarchy. for years many media outlets had written about priests to abused children. urch said it's a bad apple.he >> rose: always said it's about the coverup. >> that's very true in this case. we knew law was probably at the center. before we started our work, law made public statements saying all of the reassignments of this particular serial child abuser had been approved medically. so that polled us the law was going to be a central part of the story and turned out he was. >> rose: where is he today? he's in the vatican. he got a very nice -- after he

left boston, he got a very nice job, many people regard it as a promotion, he was the arch priest of one of the five most important churches in rome and held influential and powerful positions in the college of cardinals. >> rose: even today? now i think he's officially retired but he did play a role in the vatican's conduct of foreign affairs. some of that came out in the wikileaks state department records that were leaked. >> rose: has pope francis made inroads into this kind of -- has his personal mission affected what you think is what has been behavior within the church, not just the act of the priests but the coverup. >> one thing he's done is the church was very much a clerical coasociety under his predecessor that tended to protect the

priests and not the people in the pews. by getting people out of their limousines he started to change that and changed the focus to the people and the children. >> rose: what's the hardest thing about making the move? good actors? >> yeah, good material. not a lot of ways to screw this up. (laughter) >> rose: come on! one of the biggest challenges is transporting people back to a time where people knew nothing. these reporters didn't know what they were walking into. >> rose: creating the sense of blindness they had. >> right, and why was the church, such an iconic institution, how can they be such a part of this. there are so many amazing moments in the investigation and characters involved all the way around the investigation that we had to distill it to two hours and in doing so not only deal

with the amount of flow of information, the dissemination, but the spirit of that investigation which at one moment was exciting and incredibly tedious and then ultimately thrilling, how to combine those things because we're trying to tell an entertaining story. >> rose: but was it hard to do that? what was the -- go ahead, mark. >> i was going to say, what really works about the movie is how it walks and how youjtkw5as definitely walk away from the slaycious nature of the story and kept it in the dispassionate, constant unraveling of the facts, so that gives us a real way, by the end of this movie, to have such moral authority. we've gone through as an audience this investigation. so we're pulled out of just the emotionally wrenching aspect of seeing children raped and taken

out of that which has its own emotional ring. it hammers you in its own emotional way and we're lifted into the dialogue between the mind and the heart. the feelings and the discernment. and that's -- i think that's impossible to do almost. at's what you guys did so beautifully. >> rose: and i agree with you totally. the other thing is all those people that i've interviewed in 40 years doing this and all those i've seen portrayed on screen, you know, you understand here and in other places the impact it has on those people, on how they feel alone because it's like, as you said in the film, you know, you're accusing god. >> when we first heard they wanted a movie, i first thought why would anyone want to watch priests abusing children.

you don't see it in the movie. it's still a journalistic story, but he conveys the impact without putting viewers through that. >> rose: how do they unravel this? >> every time i talk about this movie, i see this movie, i feel stupid because i thought why did i not see or think of some of these things then? it's constantly informative to me. the other thing that i talked about the other fight was you can just mention how small the target was that he and josh and especially tom because he's at the helm, that target is tiny to do what we're talking about here and making people want to see something that's procedural and it's hard in and of itself. then we have the burden of -- we talked about other movies that were about journalism, how could they work. they have the burden of what

this -- just children being abused, a, but then faith. we're talking about faith. that's the other thing that's deep, man. no matter what kind of faith, relieges faith or just somewhere down inside people, i think that really is in their gut and it resonates. and how do you -- i don't know how long the movie is, how many minutes it is, but you don't lose interest. you care, you laugh. i mean, this is a hard thing to pull off. it's extraordinary. i just wanted to do it because i feel fortunate that i get to do something like this. and then we see it's actually good, it gets extraordinarily rewarding. >> rose: do you think the pope will see the film? >> that's a great question. right now, i haven't anticipated a reaction from the church. that said, we heard the vatican radio that they had not endorsed the film but had nice things to say on it. i'm not an expert but talking to

organizations like snap who are an organization of survivors, their thing is they're just looking for more transparency in the church and more action, that they get into changing practice and policy and we're all excited about how pope francis is talking and speaking. he sounds inclusive and forward-thinking. >> rose: willing to take on some of the power in the church. >> absolutely, but i can't imagine a greater cause than taking observe the wellfare of children. i think this is something people on both sides are saying it happens. >> i think this keeps the focus on clergy sex abuse because the church needs to do more on the issue and all the attention that will come because of this movie will further spur the church. >> rose: the journalistic action first for winning the pulitzer prize did create waves around the world. >> it did, but -- and long overdue. but, you know, we believe in the power of the printed word. i mean, that's what we do. but all of a sudden, now we have

this film which has the potential to, in a much deeper way, affect public consciousness about this issue. i mean, that's an extraordinary thing. that film can do something as good as this, as good and as well-done and well-intentioned. >> rose: and at the same time be entertaining -- give you insight and all of that. >> what's interesting, what you've captured so beautifully is you have these two institutions that in some way are part of the same problem. within the globe, there was a looking away. >> rose: complicit. yes. not active, but it happened, right? but what is beautiful is you have an institution right itself on film. you see what itaa

okay, is there is a possibility for it. that opens up the possibility for the catholic church to do the same thing. these guys are not asking the catholic church to do anything more than what they did themselves which is to look at the truth, expose it and then right the wrong. and, i mean, that's one of the beauties, i think, of the film that isn't talked about very much is how many institutions had to be part of it. it takes a village to raise a child, it takes a village to abuse one, too. and that's a really powerful message. >> rose: for many of the institutions. >> many -- the legislative branch, the police, the patriarchy -- they're the patriarch where of boston. >> courts, pleerks everyone. i think it is more far-reaching than the catholic church. i think at some point exponentially it will invade other cultures. >> rose: makes the institution

reexamine themselves. >> yes, and simply look how long child abuse and any kind of abuse has gone on not only in the catholic church but other cultures. this case happened recently with the afghanistan police. you know, that's a cultural thing. going everything not to do air quotes here, but that's a cultural -- and i think it will spread wider than hopefully this. >> rose: who last questions. ning you didn't have, because there is a time limit on how long films can be, that you wanted to do you couldn't do? or did you have the opportunity to, in a sense, write the narrative, tell the story? >> i think we told the story. of course there were characters and story lines we certainly wanted to include. i think possibly the one thing we couldn't include is this story was in 2001. it's when the "boston globe" was at the height of its powers and taken a huge hit. now i think there is a little

disconnect in terms of public knowledge, where they think the industry of journalism is now and how dire that situation is, not just for that particular industry but for our country and reliance on it. good, strong, investigative local joulism. i think josh and i struggle on writing, could we include this idea, getting a sense of that is now and we're missing out on that. we couldn't, we thought it would hopefully come up in discussion once we made the film. >> rose: this is the "spotlight" team arguing over when to publish the story. roll tape. >> we have law. this is it. >> this is law covering for one priest. there is another 90 out there. >> we'll print that story when we get it but we have the go with this now. >> i'm not going to rush this story. >> we don't have a choice. if we don't rush the print, somebody else will find the story and bisher it. joe was at the freaking courthouse! why are we hesitating? he told us to get law! >> he said to get the system, we

need the full scope, the only thing that will put an end to this. >> let's take it to ben and let him decide. >> we will when i say it's time. it's time! they knew and let it happen to kids! okay? it could have been you! it could have been me! it could have been any of us! we've got to nail these scum bags! we've got to show people that nobody can get away with this! not a priest or a cardinal or a freaking pope! >> that's how h he is a lot of the time. (laughter) >> rose: okay, just tell me -- was that dramatic license or was hat the way that meeting came down or some variation of that meeting? >> as the supervisor, i would have to say that there were occasions where it's great to have passionate reporters working for you but occasionally you need restraints. you need to say, wait a minute,

let's hold up and turn that energy outward and get more information. >> damn right! (laughter) >> i can tell you most editors don't like it when you yell at them. mostly it's a tactic that doesn't work. >> how do you know that? (laughter) >> fortunately, i was working with this guy. >> rose: thank you. thank you very much. >> rose: "spotlight" opens in limited release november 6. go see it and you will understand more about the collision between institutions and the press and some lessons about both. back in a moment. stay with us. >> rose: larry wilmore is here. since january of this year he has been the host of the "the nightly show" on comedy central. he took over the coveted spot in the "late show" lineup vacated by stephen colbert. colbert. "the nightly show" is meant to give a platform to voices that

don't always get heard. jon stewart calls him the grownup in the room that can take a panel of comedy to something deeper. a look at the show with larry wilmore. >> stop it! stop it! (laughter) okay. how are you shooting machine guns in front of a government building without getting arrested? >> well, we're white... (laughter) >> he got clocked and got arrested for it? they handcuffed him in his n.a.s.a. t-shirt. look at the poor brother in the back, he can't even believe it. look at that, man, the last little piece of my soul just died. (laughter) >> i get pulled over and police say, i'm just czeching on you. you good? i'm, like, yeah, good!

they say, you feel safe? yeah, i feel pretty good! i don't have a license. >> you don't need a license! get out of here! >> everybody may attack him but he can't shoot us all. >> he can't shoot you all! he probably can due to your position on not wanting to limit high capacity magazines. donald trump's tax plan would mostly benefit donald trump. this is like if barack obama slashed taxes on mom jeans. the catholic church is true. this is exactly who the pope is! >> i think there is a big part of the story that was missed. he met with her because she asked to confess that she had sinned by completely misapplying her public duties and not understanding what her public duty was. >> really! i think you just made that up. (laughter) >> rose: larry wilmore previously appeared as the

senior black correspondent on the daily show with jon stewart. he won an em y and peabody award for the bernie mac show. pleased to have him at the table. >> thank you, an honor to be here. >> rose: who would imagine in iowa we would see ben carson overtaking donald trump, and the two of them would be the leaders in the republican party at this stage. >> charlie, those are my early picks. >> rose: you lie, man, you lie. >> they call me crazy. i said the troll and black droopy dog will be the frontrunners. you may pick your jeb bush, but those are my picks. >> rose: how do you have such insight? >> it's like picking horses, you know. sometimes a lot of people pick them by their records, but i pick them by their names. >> rose: doesn't matter about

gender or anything. >> no, go superficial or nothing at all. >> rose: so is the show that i see -- last week, you're off this week -- the show you set out to create? >> that's a good question. it's an evolution of the show we start out to create. you always start with something and you want to start with a strong idea for something. for us, jon pitched this show to me, jon stewart. he wanted to give a platform to voices that don't necessarily get a chance to be heard, and he wanted to do a show from the point of view of the underdog, and he said, larry, i'll be honest with you, every important story in america has race, class or gender hiding underneath there somewhere, and we took that and thought, okay, that's a good point of view. we'll make that a show. and it's evolved into what it is now. but we started off pretty strong from the central point of view. it's working out the kinks and that sort of thing. >> rose: was it race, gender and politics? >> race, gender, class, we feel, is under those.

>> rose: is that what it is today? >> we feel most of the major issues have a patina of that in there somewhere. it's interesting how much those issues keep coming up again and again. >> rose: whether it's in a shooting or in some -- >> it's amazing how much class has to do with so many of the things, too. even the pope talked about that when he talked about, you know, capitalism being the dung of the devil, he was speaking to have class and the importance of classer and cal tallism and income inequality. gender is the center of the issues like race used to be. there is 100 gender classifications. your head swims with how fast the times are changing. five years ago, even marriage inequality would have been unheard of as a popular opinion and now it's a popular opinion. it's moving at lightning speed. >> rose: it is.

and i thought all the good/bad race stuff happened when i did the show. >> rose: what happened? yeah, did we overcome what happened? we shall overcome, that's right. >> rose: we shall overcome. right. you get up in the morning with your producers and look for what? >> well, usually, we talk about it the day before the first thing we're trying to do is answer to the headlines, what's going on, what's breaking now, what's happening in the news and do we have an answer for that or a comment about it, and we're also looking for the underdog story, who's the underdog in the story, what's the underrepresented voice. we call it what is your nightly take on the story. >> rose: you're looking for a story that involves an underdog or somebody who doesn't have a voice? >> sometimes i call it top dog/underdog. the underdog is more interesting

for us to take the point of view than the top dog. >> rose: give me your best example of that or an example. >> sure. if you look at many of the -- i'll give a very simple example. there is this kid who wanted to give a valedictorian speech for his high school and he was going to come out of the closet and the principal told him he couldn't do it and he called his parents and out him to his parents. >> rose: the principal did? yes, a horrible thing. the kid is clearly an underdog in this story and his story needed to be told. >> rose: how did you tell that story? that's not at first glance a funny story. >> no, it's not. so in that situation, we made his -- i i don't even remember the jokes we did -- but we made that story available to the audience and brought him out and had him do his speech and i gave him a little crap as he was doing his speech. but the emotions of him coming out was so interesting and kind

of liberating to see a kid come out and give a speech he wanted to give in the first place. but that was one small example. but sometimes we'll take a tough story like the charleston shooting. we didn't know how to do at that story. jon stewart didn't even do comedy that night. there is nothing funny about that. he clearly said his agenda was a racist agenda. he was out to kill and the reason he killed them was because they were black. >> rose: he went into a black church. >> yes. to me the church is the secondary part, the primary part is the racial story. i wasn't old enough at the time, but the girls killed in the church, that's where my mind went. and in those days -- and there was no confusion back in those days that it might have been a religious shooting or racial killing. everyone coz clear that was a racial killing and incident. but it took fox news to make it seem they can it was a religious

incident, they were killed because they were christian, and we thought it was a disservice to the story, that was not the story. and we find the iran irony in t. >> rose: jon would have had a field day with that. >> that's right. some of the stories we do are inherently sad. but part of what we're doing is finding the humanity in the stories and within that the comedy. >> rose: was this simply a nice, easy, natural transition for you? you had a varied experience as a writer, yes. >> rose: on camera. it's funny. >> rose: a runner. yes (laughter) i've come a long way in this business. it was my evil plan years ago to be doing this sort of thing. >> rose: are you serious? it was. back in the early '90s, the reason i started writing and producing is hollywood couldn't peg me as a performer.

i did political assumer, ironics, improvisational, but they were putting us all into one box at that time and called it "urban." if you didn't sound like you were from the ghetto, you probably weren't going to get hired for something. so i thought i need to carve my own direction and make my own route so i don't have to wait for hollywood to find me. so i started writing and producing. >> reporter: smart move. turned out to be to try to make your own way. it's tough as a performer being at the mercy of the business for so much. and i have kind of an entrepreneurial spirit and i like to start my own thing and that sort of thing. that was my evil plan, before i did this a couple of years ago, i did a couple of elections called race election and sex in utah. (laughter) >> rose: a great title.

thank you very much. it was patented after the cold charles coral when he would go on the road. >> rose: on the road is when it would come out. >> yeah, and he would find these stories across america. i wanted to go around america and talk to people in the towns instead of just on the coast and do my lefty liberal show. i said, no, let's find out what happened with the people. i thought utah would be great because romney was running at the and wand to find out what was going on with mormonism. so the show almost turned out to be what "the nightly show" is now. i started with a monolog, did a short interview and a panel discussion. my goal was people from the town to be on the show along with a celebrity. >> rose: great having your own show in. >> it's really fun. it's everything you expected and everything no one ever tells you

about at the same time. >> rose: what did they tell you? >> i have to work every day. what's up with that? (laughter) >> rose: that's right! and if you don't have a guest, you don't have a show most of the time. >> yeah, or i have to talk to myself. for me, charlie, i'm hosting it by myself, i get the other co-hosts where i can call in and say, cast a bad light on someone in the room. >> rose: if i don't show up, the ladies take over. >> yeah, the moment you do it, it's fun. >> rose: it's one of the great things you can do and have fun. you get up in the morning and you say, what's happening? that's what you say, what's happening? >> yep. >> rose: and then you figure out how you can connect to it. >> that's right. >> rose: you connect to it in a different way than i do. >> that's exactly right.

i multi-task in the morning. i watch about three shows that i watch all the time. >> rose: pbs this morning. pbs this morning is one of them, morning show, cnn. i go back and forth between those. i love your recap. it's fantastic. i love that thing. >> rose: the 90 seconds? yeah,ettes great. you get to see what's going on so quick. i think it's a great idea. cnn usually has some guest that's interesting that time of the day. morning joe has politics and i love hearing politics early on. at the same time i'm on my ipad and seeing things that are trending. >> rose: and you're looking at tweets or you're not? >> not so much social media. i do more facebook because i want to see what stories people are talking about. i'll do a little bit of that. >> rose: what do you do on facebook? >> i'll go through the news feed, check the "new york times" and if i'm interested i'll read that, too. i'm doing that simultaneously.

>> rose: you're multi-tasking like crazy. >> i'm scattered brained, the only way to calm my brain is to do multiple things. >> rose: you just resigned or re-upped? >> they picked us up for a second season and we'll get to cover the election next year. it's the most entertaining thing ever. >> rose: i would love to have ben carson and donald trump here tonight. >> why is that not happening while i'm here? can i please with be your co-host? i'll bring you in if we get them. will you be here? >> i'll drop everything! i'd love to do that! >> rose: you can't make this up. >> donald trump is -- i don't know if fading is the right word, i don't know if the patina is kind of -- >> rose: i think something's happening at both ends. one end is the repetition of some of the things begins to

catch up. first time it's amusing, the second time is less than abusing. then what do you talk about. >> exactly. >> rose: that's within your calling card. my calling card is mine is bigger than yours. (laughter) and this is true. >> oh, absolutely. i mean, i'm not sure if that's a fact, but anybody wants to build a wall that big, usually means the opposite. (laughter) >> rose: so where do you want to take it this year? >> we're sharping the show, always trying to make it better. i'll probably do more field pieces where i'll get out and do more fun tape pieces. we did some things with some presidential candidates called larry wilmore soul food sit down. i just did one with rand paul. >> rose: like what? ibs, chicken, whatever they order, greens, mac and cheese.

>> rose: all the stuff i grew up on. >> i had big gay ice cream with nancy pelosi. for people who don't know, in new york, there's a place called big gay ice cream. so we have plans to get out and do more interviews. i did a lot of that stuff on the daily show. we'll be incorporating more one-on-one interviews. there is a more laser listening and answering that is a lot of fun. it took a lot of work to handle that panel every night. >> rose: the dynamic of the panel? that's harder than the one-on-one? >> very difficult. it requires a different type of preparation. you're two questions ahead sometimes. sometimes or don't worry, i'll get to you. >> rose: or this person hasn't

spoken for the last five minutes so you want them to -- it's symphonic. >> yeah. >> rose: it makes it interesting. also in this kind of thing, you have some video you want to add to the conversation, and that will produce a reaction from everybody. >> right. and as i'm doing it, i have a certain amount of time to get entertainment, information, provocation depending on the topic, involving everyone, hopefully coming to some point they're satisfied, hopefully will get something out of it. i don't want pre-fab jokes. i love active listening where i'm inventing on the spot. that's been the most fun, really listening to saying what's behind that. >> rose: i call it living in the moment. >> it really is. >> rose: and sometimes you will see people are not paying attention and they'll repeat something. >> yes.

>> rose: but the idea of living in the moment, so you really do hear what somebody is saying. >> correct. >> rose: it will just give you five questions automatically if you're tuned? >> that's exactly right. what's interesting, when we first started the show, there was a lot of preparation spent on questions. i realized i don't need a lot of questions, you know, because then you're so interested in the question, i want to put my interest in the person. you know, and in the conversation. so rather than think of clever questions for any topic, i think of the direction of the conversation i want to have. >> rose: i do, too. and how am i going to provoke that conversation. if it changes, that's fine. because i need to stay in the t it happen and not try to and force it to where i think it should go. >> rose: if you can create that spontaneity, it will go somewhere and be much more pleasing. >> always. it's so much fun. >> rose: i've seen the people

do the following -- you anticipate and you say, i want to go hoar and here and here and you've worked it out in your mind that b follows a and somehow what that persons says in a means you should go right to s. and you're thinking, well, first, i've got to get this in, and then you end up losing the best part of a real conversation. >> and sometimes b goes to 12. >> rose: exactly! (laughter) >> wait a second! how do we do that? we're not even letters now. >> rose: you went from letters to numbers and nobody told me. >> we were talking about women's issues, and holly walker started talking about how women have a period and she said, i'm having one right now. >> rose: she said that? and these three women in front of me started talking about women and their periods and i'm a guy here having this conversation and it was so interesting. we were all, like, now, what

is -- so, tell us, ladies -- >> rose: tell us something we didn't know. >> yes, and i had no idea this was going to happen. it happened in a moment. the audience was interested and much better than anything i could have prepared. >> rose: do you have any time to do standup, to produce other specials, to -- >> not as much time as i had, but i'm still involved with other things. before i did this, i was involved in launching blackish. the hbo we still did the pilot for and i'm still involved as a creative consultant on the show which i can do in my spare time. but i'm always interested in mentoring writers and doing projects. i'm sure at some point i'll have a bigger production company and that sort of thing. >> rose: did john mentor you? i'm going to say jon and i were more peers. i was already an established

show runner. >> rose: i know that. not where you were on some spectrum, but he brought you in? >> yes. >> rose: he came to you and said, i want you to do a show. >> let me be clear, jon is a master in this area. he is the yoda in this particular brand of comedy, and it's an editorial style comedy where you're sympathizing an idea and your point of view and you have passionate and conviction and there is intent and clarity about all those things. and jon is amazing about that. and he really -- yes, he was a complete mentor in that area. >> rose: and he also seems to have a really remarkable insight in terms of what the potential of somebody is. >> yes. he has a great eye for talent in a way johnny carson did also and a generosity carson did. >> rose: did both. exactly. >> rose: i'm constantly amazed at stories in which people will

say two things. i mean, jon had a great eye for talent. secondly, he wanted you to look good. >> yeah. >> rose: so whatever he did was to make you look good. obviously wanted a laugh. >> yes. >> rose: and it's his show. yes, his ego is not attached to who is getting the laugh. >> rose: his ego is attached to the laugh. >> to the integrity of the jog, that'jog -- the integrity of the joke. that's where his ego was attached and where his fight was all the time. >> rose: how do you measure the success of the show? >> that's a great question. there is the empirical evidence of who's watching it which most people measure it, and then there is the quality that you think you're bringing to a show. sometimes that's measured with the acclaim it gets, sometimes just word of mouth. you always try to measure it with how you all feel as a group. i think it's probably a combination of those things at the end of the day. i think you have to feel satisfied with your product at the end of each work day and know you got the best out of it

you could. >> rose: and to know why? exactly, and to always push yourself. i've always tried to push myself in my career to put myself in dangerous areas i don't feel comfortable in. believe nee, charlie, if i didn't have show business, i would be laying around watching golf all day. people will say, larry, why are you writing? i need a deadline. so thank god for that. >> rose: the clock doesn't lie. >> it doesn't. i love pushing myself and having the challenges and they're very scary and i pull it off. i think it's the tight rope act i like. >> rose: we often ask people what is their essential talent. is yours comedy or writing or wherever they merge? >> it's funny. i think if i were to say if i have a gift, i would say i love human behavior and i really like

to examine what motivates us to do things. >> rose: but that's comedy, isn't it? >> and it comes out in the form of comedy. that's the thing that god gave me, you know. but i love doing comedy in many forms. i love performing it, writing it, producing it. i love doing all the ways to make it a little comedy thing that we get to eat. >> rose: is this the best time of your life? >> absolutely, up there with the birth of my kids. (laughter) but i'm having so much fun. the fact i get to talk to and meet so many people and we get to tell these stories. i know how rare it is to have this opportunity. i have been in television long enough. you know, so, i have the required amount of humility one needs to enjoy this, you know. >> rose: it's great to have you part of the late night. >> it is an honor. >> rose: thank you for coming here. >> thank you for having me. >> rose: larry wilmore with "the nightly show," comedy

central. thank you for joining us. see you next time. for more about the program and earlier episodes, visit us online at pbs.org and charlierose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

the following production was produced in high definition. and their buns are something i've yet to find anywhere else. >> cause i'm not inviting you to my house for dinner -- >> -- breaded and fried and gooey and lovely. >> in the words of arnold schwarzenegger - i'll be back! >> you've heard of connoisseur -- i'm a common-sewer! >> they knew i had to ward off some vampires or something. >> let's talk desserts gentlemen, cause i see you