>> rose: welcome to the program. we begin the evening with george osborne, britain's chancellor of the exchequer. >> i think for me what's significant about the decision the house of commons took last week is not just that we will provide military support for the effort to degrade i.s.i.s. on the battlefield of syria, as we're already doing so in iraq, but it also signals that britain not only has the means to defend itself from projected values but has the political will to do so, so it's a significant moment. >> rose: we continue this evening with richard powell, a new exhibit at the whitney museum called archibal archibal,

jazz age modernist. >> we thought it was important to look at archibald motley, given the art world, that african-american artists are more prominent than ever, that they're more interested in sat fire humor and prove violation, archibald motley fits in with that. >> rose: we conclude with andrea illy, the c.e.o. of i wilofillycaffeè. >> the dream of the world's best coffee is a freely challenge admission. >> rose: george osborne, richard powell and andrea illy, when we continue. >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by:

>> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: george osborne is here, he's britain's chancellor of exchequer. britain is the latest country to join the u.s.-led coalition against i.s.i.s. president obama addressed the nation from the oval office sunday following attack in san bernardino, california, which killed 14 people. he said the u.s. would draw on every aspect of american power to combat i.s.i.s. europe is facing threats as security is increased across the country. a man charged with murder after injuring two people in an underground london station

saturday. they are treating the attack as a terrorist incident. the prime minister is to put the leadership to a referendum in 2016, some of the things george osborne faces as the number two man to be prime minister, so pleased to have him back at this table. welcome. >> good to be back. >> rose: tell me how you see where we are at this time. you had san bernardino in california, you've had what happened in paris, you've had a series of reexaminations of policy by countries in europe and certainly by the united states. >> yeah. i mean, it's such a huge sympathy for all those caught up in the san bernardino attack, and it is part of a patent. we see this terrorist organization, i.s.i.s. or daesh, i don't know what you would call it, either orchestrating attacks as in paris, it seems, or

inspiring people to attack, as may be the case here in the united states. either way, it's a murderous cult, and it is a threat to our way of life and to our life, and i would say, you know, if you want to have some good news, because there is a lot of bad news around, i think the good news is there is now a concerted international coalition of people who range from the united states and britain and france, to frankly, other countries we don't always agree with like russia who are determined to prosecute a campaign against this organization and eliminate it and, so, we need to work together to do that both on the battlefields, in cyberspace and in our security forces and, of course, in our communities, our mosques and our schools to make sure that the poisonous ideology of which it feeds doesn't create a breeding ground for this kind of thing. >> rose: would you have had the vote had there been no paris

in your parliament to authorize airstrikes? >> well, we were building up to having that vote, so the answer is yes. would it have been as decisive as it turned out to be, i'm not sure. i mean, britain in 2013 took a decision on behalf of the governments to reject the advice, myself, david cameron and others and stay out of the syrian conflict. >> rose: this was at a time that the president was preparing to bomb syria because of gas. >> yes. we had drawn a red line that if assad used chemical weapons, there would be a military response. now, the house of commons voted against. that, for me, was a really terrible moment, actually. i thought it was a bad decision about the house of commons, not one i supported, was advocating or voted for. i think for me what's significant about the decision the house of commons took last week is not just that we will provide military support to the effort to degrade i.s.i.s. on

the battlefield of syria, as we are already doing so in iraq, but it also signals that britain not only has the means to defend itself from projectist values but has the political will to do so. so it's a significant moment. >> rose: how do you stop the radicalization process that clearly was evident on the part of the husband and wife in san bernardino? >> well, look, it's a massive task. i think you have to start by accepting that there is an ideology, an islamist ideology which creates a culture of grievance and talks about violence, and it needs to be tackled just as much as the actual acts of terror themselves. i think there is been, in too many quarters, a sort of willingness to turn a blind eye over this ideology, you know. we can tolerate it. we can't tolerate it in our mosques, we can't tolerate it in our schools or colleges or

universities, and defeating that ideology, i think, is a very important part of defeating actual acts of terror. and then i think there is something else we need to do and i know it's a lively debate in america as well, we've got to give our security forces and our police the powers to intercept communications between those who wish us ill. in this country, under the constitution, under the rule of law, has always given those who defend us the right to intercept mail and listen to people's telephone calls. you know, there is been proper protections and warrants and so on, but, ultimately, you've had the power to intercept those communications. >> rose: what would you say to silicon valley and these technology companies that say we can't even access it. >> these companies are some of the most exciting companies in the world, they've created thousands of jobs, created new industries that didn't exist before, and they've changed all

our lives for the bert. so, you know, these companies aren't villains, but there is technology and, in particular, this encryption, to my mind, causes problems in that you can't intercept communications between people who wish to dow 'do you harm -- who wish to do you harm. it can also be child abuse and organized crime. i don't think comiewntsz can accept there is channels of communication it can't access. we're at the stage that we don't want to have to go to the "or what." it's not an acceptable situation, so we'd much rather do it on the basis of cooperation. we have strong relationships with some of the top tech companies. i don't want to name names because it would imply they're somehow wrong doers, they're not. they've developed an amazing technology that's generally a powerful good in the world but

let's make sure it's not abused for evil. >> rose: you look at the ocean today. tell me what the strategy is -- the united states, britain, france. >> well -- >> rose: saudi arabia, they're all part of the coalition. >> it's to deny physical space to i.s.i.s. by making sure that their leadership is killed, that they are -- their forces are pushed back. to deny space of cooperation on the ground. much easier in iraq where we have an iraqi army, more difficult in syria but there are force wes work with in syria, to deny them spaces on the internet, to deny them financing. bill back in new york next week to meet with the united nations, first time financiers of the united nations, the council, to deny them terrorist financing and finally to deny them the country of this ideology which has gone unchallenge for too long. >> rose: how long before you

think there will be a move against mosul, the second largest city in iraq controlled by i.s.i.s.? >> the good news is the territory controlled by i.s.i.l in iraq has been reduced by 30%. >> rose: right. now, mosul -- i'm not a military commander on the ground. it's clearly an objective, but i wouldn't want us to make a false move on this. let's be ready when we do make a move. that's got to be a decision that lies with the iraqi commanders on the ground. >> rose: can you do this with airstrikes alone? >> as i say, i think the airstrikes can degrade both the leadership of i.s.i.s. let's not underestimate the u.s.-led drone strikes against al quaida and pakistan that have been extremely effective and there have been very successful recent strikes against the senior i.s.i.l leadership including that man who called himself "jihadi john" who executed on television -- >> rose: from your country.

-- from our country that executed american and british hostages on television and he is dead because of successful drones. airstrikes can also degrade things like the financial resources of i.s.i.s. you see the r.a.f. since the authorization of the house of commons take action against the oil fields that are in i.s.i.s. control. and then ultimately, most effectively, use see in iraq, in coordination with forces on the ground, but they don't have to be western forces, they can be the iraqi army in the case of iraq, coordinated airstrikes and ground action can push i.s.i.s. back. we need to find a resolution to this syrian civil war, we need to reconstruct that desperately damaged country. we need to remove, as i say, the poison of the ideology. but not a bad place to start is

killing the terrorist leadership taking the fight us to. >> rose: how about cooperation with russia? >> well, you know, russia is a country we obviously don't see eye to eye on lots of issues, not least the leadership of sir i can't but one thing we do agree on is i.s.i.l is a threat to us all. i would start with that. i would start with where we agree because there are plenty of areas we disagree. start with where we agree. we are already cooperating in this sense, every single day, american, british and russian pilots are flying in the same airspace, and there is a deconfliction taking place. >> rose: how do you do senate. well, look, you know, it's essentially handled by the military commanders and air traffic controllers of the coalition, the u.s. and britain and france and the russian military done informally, but it helps, you know, avoid altragic misunderstanding. >> rose: and respect to assad,

what's your position on that? >> well, i don't think assad can be part of a lasting solution because -- >> rose: no one does.ñi i'm going to try and be an optimist. you have lots of people who sit around this table and tell you why everything is going from bad to worse. i want to present a slightly more optimistic picture which is what do the russians say? the russian says we are not getting rid of assad today. >> rose: but they say we're not in favor of a transition. >> what do we say? we say assad should go, but we've accepted that that doesn't necessarily have to happen today. again, it needs to be part of -- >> rose: that's the u.s. position as well. >> right. so i would suggest that there is something to work with there because ultimately it's hard to imagine a situation of any kind of settlement in syria that doesn't ifnvolve just the

americans and the french but the russians. >> rose: can you defeat i.s.i.s. without a change of government in syria? >> you can potentially defeat the terrorist organization e you going to create conditions where other forms of extremism emerge or don't emerge? you need to deal with the fact there is a regime there that has brutalized its peoplend many people have fled that country. they're not going to come back if they think they will be brutalized again. i would say a lasting solution to extremism in that country and the threat that emanates from it is a change of leadership. at the top, you know, we are not proposing -- we're not saying the entire syrian government needs to go and all the people who have been doing jobs in the syrian government, you know, that's an example of learning from the lesson of iraq.

you know, we are saying assad cannot be part of a long-term solution. >> rose: his family and closest lieutenants. >> this is all part of the discussion, but he cannot be -- >> rose: are we making any progress? your government in vienna. >> the talks in vienna. you have russia, iran, saudi arabia, the western allies around the table, if you don't have all these players involved in at least the discussion, it's quite difficult to see how you would ever get to a solution. the areas where people agree are more numerous than you might imagine. >> rose: before i turn to economics and the european union, tell me about the speech that the labor foreign minister made in the house of commons. you were there? >> yes, sitting directly ope

opposite. >> rose: what did you think? he is the son of a very radical politician in britain and he is the foreign affairs spokesman of the labor party. the labor party leadership has gone far left and completely anti-war. >> rose: so far left, you're the center, your party. >> hillary ben is the foreign affairs spokesman, in the job before the labor leader turned up, and the labor leader hasn't gotten rid of him so he made the case for airstrikes and supporting david cameron my boss -- >> rose: and the british people having the approval of the house of comonls for airstrikes against -- >> yes, and he led with him 60 laborers through rebellion in their own party. through the speech, the most

remarkable of the speech -- you have drama in the house where someone's speaking against them even if the leader is sitting literally next to them, and he talks about the international history of the left, it's involvement in fighting franco in spain and confronting hitler in germany and actually how it's been labor prime ministers in britain who joined n.a.t.o. and the like. so, you know, it was a specifically center-left appeal and it's interesting because we would have won the vote without any labor support as it happens, but by having significant labor support, you know, we are able to say this is not just the view of the british government, this is a broader view of the british political spectrum and the british house of commons. in terms of the message it tends world it's been helpful. >> rose: here is the famous speech in the house of commonsest commons by hilary ben. >> it has been argued in the

debate airstrikes achieve nothing. not so. look at how daesh's forward march has been halted in iraq. look at how their military capacity and freedom of movement has been put under pressure. ask the kurds about sinjar and kobani. now, of course, airstrikes alone will not defeat daesh, but they make a difference because they are giving them a hard time and it is making it more difficult for them to expand their territory. >> rose: quickly on european union, where are we on that? you're already a member of the european union but asking to continue your membership, for certain things. >> yeah. britain is a member of the european union but the british people will decide next year whether we want to remain a member of the european union and what we want for the british government is a better deal for europe, partly so europe creates more jobs and it's a stronger economy and partly because

britain who is not in the euro or part of the common border arrangements is not discriminated against and is a very significant part of the european company has a fair deal. the the good news, speaking of today, is the european union have gotten back to us and proposed a number of the things we have put on the table as the way forward. so there is still lots of negotiation to be done but it's moving the right direction. we, david cameron and myself, will be resolute in fighting for britain's best national interest and putting that to the national people in the referendum. >> rose: the outcome will be what? >> let's start the negotiation first. i think if we can get a good deal and recommend that to the british people, they will want to remain in the european union, but we have to have a deal that works for britain and we're in the process of fighting for that. >> rose: here's a piece you had today in the "wall street journal," how britain got its mojo back, george osborne. and since you make the case that you have to have a strong

economy to have a strong functioning government that can pull its national security responsibilities and function the way it hopes to be in terms of its investment and people and investment in opportunity and providing the kind of quality of life opportunities, correct? >> i want to make a broader argument which is i'm part of the political generation that i voted for the iraq war as a member of parliament and have been through this great recession of seven or eight years ago and both in the united states and britain, that caused our countries to look in on themselves and be wary of foreign engagement, and we knew the cost of intervention but not necessarily the cost of not intervening. i would say if you take the case of britain, we now have a very strong economy. also risks we have to deal with, but we've put in place a plan to get rid of our deficit, have our budget set for us, meaning we pay our way in the world, reduce

debt and create jobs, and print has been growing more strongly than any of the other major western economies, first, that enables us to have national security and we have just in the last couple of weeks signed up to a whole new set of defense commitments, new aircraft carriers, submarines, aircraft and so on. and through the vote in the house of commons which you just showed the outstanding speech of, we have shown the political will to go and protect ourselves and project our values. that is why i'm saying britain has its mojo back, we are back on the world stage and the only country currently in the world meeting the 2% n.a.t.o. commitment on defense expenditure, but also .7% of our national income on international development. so britain has the hard power to support our allies and, you know, of which the outstanding

power is the united states, and also the soft power saying we're not going to leave these problems to others, you know, we are going to help solve the problems of the world and make sure our values, the western values are heard and projected. >> rose: so it's the end of austerity for the british -- >> well, we still have some difficult decisions to take. i've announced what they are. if you look at what's happened in britain, when i became the chancellor, the finance minister five years ago, the state was consuming 45% of the national income, it's now consuming just under 40%. it will be 36% by the time the plans are complete. it's the biggest consolidation in 100 years of british history outside of demobilization after the wars. it's also the biggest consolidation of any g-7 country for 50 years, including here in the u.s., and we've done it, i think, in a way that shoals you should not have to choose and do not have to choose between having good public services and strong defense and having sound

public finances. indeed, my whole argument is national security and great public services are the flip side, the other side of the coin of sound public finances and economic security. if you don't have one, you can't have the other. >> rose: you think you can make the argument all the austerity and budget cuts and all the certain welfare kinds of programs has not in any way diminished the ability for a government to take care of its poor and for a government to make sure that there are not people who were receiving certain benefits are no longer severing those benefits? >> i believe the opposite which is when the public finances fail and the economy fails, the people who suffer are the poorest in the country. sound economics are most -- >> rose: poor are better off because of austerity. >> the least advantaged in the country are better off when you have an economy that creates

jobs, that is able to sustain itself, public finances that can be funded and don't go through periods of feast and famine, and if you look at what british conservatives have done, talking about how we now own the center ground of british politics, we are undertaking radical education reform similar to the chancellor movement here. we've announced in the last couple of weeks radical prison reform. >> rose: how are you doing that? >> we are taking old 19t 19th century prisons in the middle of our cities that are totally unsuitable for rehabilitating prisoners in the modern age and are not really fit for purpose. we are suring those prisons down. just closed the largest women's prison in europe in the last week or two, and we are closing these vick torn prisons down and building new ones. i'm putting on the line over a billion pounds of public expenditure to build those prisons. we are a conservative government and there are plenty of

conservative movements around the world that would think building new prisons is priority for public policy, but i think whether prisons or welfare, conservatives can be progressives. >> rose: in the "new york times," "mr. osborne's points remain unchanging. he thinks they should run a surplus, not borrow to invest. it's impossible to stand why such a rule makes sense. particularly hard at presence that the government can borrow at such favorable terms ." >> the problem with not running a surplus is you're basically saying you should borrow forever. the british company would have been -- if you can't run a surplus after eight or nine years of economic growth, when will you? i don't know what the next shock, is maybe the debt problems of the emerging markets will overwhelm us.

maybe shocks will come through the oil prices. i don't know what they are. what i do know is there will be some shock somewhere, and britain's national debt has increased because of the impact of the great recession and the poor management of the public finances before. now, we're putting our house in order, we're fixing the roof when the sun is shining to use an old john f. kennedy phrase, and that means we're ready for whatever the world throws at us. >> rose: what the world is also witnessing is the closer relationship between your government and the chinese government. what does that suggest? >> well, look, we have the same political system as china. we're a democracy. they're not. we have concerns about human rights abuses in china and we raise them, but this chinese government is the second largest economy in the world representing over a billion people and it is overwhelmingly in our interest that this strong emerging power is brought into and feels comfortable with the international system that britain and america helped

create. so i want to make sure they have got their rightful seats at the i.m.f. >> rose: that their currency has the proper designation around the world. >> if the outlet for china's ambition and mission is it wants its currency the part of the i.m.f. basket of currency i think that's a great place for its ambition to be channeled. >> rose: some have suggested it's the end of the special relationship between the united states and britain. >> that's nonsense. we have a hugely deep, rich relationship with the united states, not just at a military and security level, but culturally, economically and so on. >> rose: not to be replaced by china. >> not to be replaced by china. with china, what we want to be is a partner for them is they've become this new strong any and, let's be clear, in my lifetime, the single biggest force of elimination of poverty in the world has been the growth of

china. i want to make sure that continues in a way that doesn't cause us great problems, that can be accommodated within the international system that our two countries helped create. let's be their partners, let's help them on their journey of becoming a stronger economy of richer citizens and addressing their issues. let's not be blind to all the differences and the disagreements we're going to have and the issues we have over things like human rights, but to not have a conversation with and to not try and partner this incredibly important force in our world will be a huge mistake. >> rose: great to see you. thank you for coming. george osborne, britain's chancellor of the exchequer and also the first secretary of state. back in a moment. stay with us. >> rose: archibald motley is considered one of the great american modernists of the 20th century. he was born in new orleans, moved to chicago as a child. he first came of prominence in the '20s during the early days

of the harlem renaissance. she known as a master colorist and radical interpreter of urban culture. often captured life on chicago's south side and jazz age, paris and mexico. "archibald motley: jazz age modernist" is the first scale survey of motley in two decades. on display at the whitney museum of modern art. richard powell is the curator. i am pleased to have him at this table. welcome. >> thank you. >> rose: great to have you back. we had a show how many years ago? >> 25 years ago. >> rose: before this show even existed. >> yeah. >> rose: put him in the context, archibald motley, 20th century art. >> archibald motley is a colorist and modernist who is inspired by the urban scene and

african-american life. to contextualize him, one could place him in the category of american scene painting or one could put in a category of portraiture or the harlem renaissance or one could use all those categories to place him -- >> rose: and he stood tall in each of those. >> i'd say so, yes. >> rose: there hasn't been a retrospective on him for some 20 years. >> the last big show was at the chicago historical society, now called the chicag chicago histoy museum. it was in the '90s. our idea was in the 21s 21st century, this was a good time to look at motley again. we thought this was an important moment to think at archibald motley and his work, given the changes in the art world, given the fact african-american artists are more prominent than they've ever been, give that a lot of artists are interested in

satire, humor, provocation, motley fits into that. >> rose: what do you mean by jazz age modernist? is that just a chronological reference? >> it's also a culture reference. the 1920s and the 1930s was a moment when not just americans but the world was inspired and moved by jazz, by urban black expression, whether louie armstrong or duke ellington or josephine baker or ellie smith. this is where they took people's imaginations and archibald motley's artwork fit into that. >> rose: how was he influenced by chicago? he was born in new orleans and moved to chicago. >> chicago was one of the most exciting places in the early to century. i'm not just saying that because i was born there, but it was a place that, unlike new york, had this incredible infusion of

folks from the mississippi delta. it also had infusions of folks from eastern europe and southern europe. so there was this huge, huge migration of peoples from all over the world, and it was a place where you had meat packing and industrial activity and business was full steam, and african-americans were quite entrepreneurial during that time period as well. so this was kind of a hot bed of modernist ideas and innovation and art as well. >> rose: tell me about the harlem renaissance and his place in it. >> well, when people think of the harlem renaissance, they automatically zoom in on 125t 125th and lexington and that neighborhood. but, in fact, the harlem renaissance was a mood, a spirit that infected people all over the, not just in new york but in chicago, washington, d.c., kingston, jamaica, paris, france.

again, african-american culture was seen as kind of an anecdote for the ills of the previous generation. people felt like they just couldn't -- they needed an infusion of energy and newness and black culture provided that. >> rose: his use of color is extraordinary. >> it's amazing. when you look at these works, you wonder, could they have been painted in the 20s and 30s because they have such a modern, contemporary feel. he has this particular quality when he's trying to invoke neon, or he creates this kind of orange glow tt encircles the figures. and i don't know any artist who does that. >> rose: you say what he painted was frequently a reflection on urban culture. >> yes. and that's urban culture both in its celebratory kind of way but also when it's got a challenge aspect. he was not afraid to tap deeply

into all the things that make up the city, both -- again both the celebratory and problematic. >> rose: he was a portrait artist, also. >> an amazing portrait artist. they capture not just a likeness but an inner spirit of the subject. >> rose: take a look at some of these images and based on what we've talked about before, talk about them. the first one 1933, a self-portrait called "myself at work." >> yes, motley has just come back from paris and you can tell from the beret and smock. he was a good catholic born in new orleans. a lot of new orleans catholics came to chicago, so you see the crews fix on the wall. he has his pallet in his hand and all his colors are laid out very elegantly along with his brushes. this is a work that is a highly-constructed composition

that really speaks to all aspects of his identity. of particular note for me are the book ends of this painting. on the right we have this greco roman statue in the lower righthand corner. that's his muse. this classical figure, a woman who speaks of industry and innovation and imagination. on the left is this portrait that he's painting, this beautiful nude of mixed racial ancestry, who, it's hard to tell whether it's a painting or she's actually crawling out of the canvass to be a part. >> rose: what do you make of the cross? >> he was catholic. he was born an raised catholics. there are a lot of black catholics in chicago, present company included. >> rose: the next for traitd of ms. a.j. motley, painted in 1930. >> he married his childhood

sweetheart. they had a stormy relationship. it was not easy being interracial couple in the '20s and '30s. her family was pretty much estranged from motley and his family. this portrait i like is a portrait that shows her at the height of his talent and career. she's wearing the wonderful fur bofox boa, gloves in her hand, painting on the wall behind her, a woman of success connected to an important and prominent artist. >> rose: next a nude portrait of my wife, 1930. >> same woman but a very different image. this was painted in paris and speaks to the nude as kind of a radical, expressive statement. i've often described his work in conjunction with the movement in germany that was about photographic accuracy but also a strange kind of undercurrent of disease, and one really feels

that in this portrait of edith. in fact, in the lower righthand corner where motley signs his name, you can see paris and he really kind of underscores that this is a continental image. >> rose: the next is figurine and dutch seascape 1920. >> motley was color-struck, as we say in the vernacular. he was preoccupied with interracial mixtures. this is a legacy of louisiana, a culture where you have mixed race people in variations of hair and color, and he's really kind of continuing that fascination in this portrait. but i would also add this is a mixed-race woman who is inigmatic and a se duc seductre. to coupleture to the left, the headless, armless, male nude, there is a subliminal message

about the power of her fell then wiles -- feminine wiles. >> rose: and then tongues. he feels fascinated by the sanctified church, the church of people who came from the mississippi delta who were not connected to an organized religion, they opened up churches in little store fronts and garages and this painting really reflects that, this new pop-up religious, expressive, ecstatic experience. >> rose: still part of us in fundamental christianity. >> and what makes this work stand out for me is the prominence of women in the sanctified church. unlike organized religion in the pentecostal churches women play prominent roles and we see them throughout this composition, particularly the woman in white. >> rose: next is blues from 1929. >> yeah, yeah. if you google the harlem renaissance, you will see this

painting, most iconic for the area. the irani is it was painted in paris, not harlem or chicago. we think it was a club in the 14th or 15th that was patronized by everybody. >> rose: how long was he in paris? >> about a year. he got a guggenheim, one of the first african-american artists to get a guggenheim, and it took him to paris and he loved it. he had a diary which we have access to, talks about working by day and party big night. >> rose: cafe paris 1929. this year was 1929 that he spent there. >> exactly, yeah. what's really great is we have been able to identified a lot of these locations. we think this might be a cafe called "the dream." it shows, again, people in the cabarets and the cafes drinking, the characters both outdoors and

indoors. motley, again, really made his home for that brief year in paris, although by the end of that year, when the guggenheim foundation said do you want to extend your stay, he said, no, i've got to come back to chicago. >> rose: getting religion is 1948, a later period. >> it is. what's particularly fascinating for this work for me is the address on the house on the back is 350. his address was 350 west 60t 60th street in chicago, so this might be an autobiographical painting. there's a little boy sitting on the porch, and he's looking at all the activity going on, the old men, the young women, the street singers, the bands of church people. motley was incredibly talented at capturing bronzeville, this african-american community in chicago that at length he described, when you we want there at night, it was like daytime because the neon lights

and street lamps and the people were just filling the streets. >> rose: the next is hot rhythm, 1961. >> this is one of the latest works in the show, and you can see that motley, by this point, is in his '70s, still have the artistic chops. and this is not the jazz age as much as it is -- well, it is, but not the louie armstrong jazz age. this is the jazz age of jamal in chicago. we see the big band, chorus girls, yet it has the same set of using the urban energy and the energies of jazz and cinco o pays and people that will speak of that energy. >> rose: congratulations. "archibald motley: jazz age

modernist," on view at the whitney museum till january 17th. if you're in europe, go see it. back in a moment. stay with us. >> rose: andrea illy is here, chairman and c.e.o. of illycaffeè, the global coffee icon, grandfather founded in 1933. served in 100,000 of the world's top cafe's, restaurant and hotels. expanded to include stores with espresso machines and items. the coffee world is groaded to climate change and growing sites that pose new challenges to the industry. i am pleased to have andrea illy at this table for the first time, welcome. >> thank you for having me. >> rose: tell me about your grandfather. >> my grandfather was hungarian, very courageous. he left home very young and went from hungary and vienna and from

there, he fell in love with coffee, supposedly -- he didn't tell me. then he was a soldier after the first world war. he came to trieste and decided to stay. he met his wife and after a few years decided to found the illycaffeè, pursuing the dream o offer testify greatest coffee to the world. he did it already with two big innovations in hand. one was the pressure espresso which didn't exist at that time, and the pressurization in order to preserve and enhance the aroma of coffee. so he really started with a completely innovative technology in coffee. >> rose: he pioneered the espresso machine? >> yes, it was already existing before but with no pressure. he did introduce pressure for the sake of, you know, lowering the temperature for better aroma because too high temperature makes the coffee bitter.

he wanted to lower the temperature, no pressure, so he added extended pressure and how pressure espresso was born with the creama and the mouth feel that you can enjoy with a cup of espresso. >> rose: a private or public company? >> 100% family owned and operated. >> rose: how many family members work in the firm? >> well, in the governance, we are all of us. eight are in the holding or directly in the operation of the company illycaffeè, and in the management we are myself as the c.e.o. and then two representatives of the next generation. so my nephew and my niece. >> rose: you have said that the three virtues of coffee are pleasure, health and sustainability. >> absolutely. well, we drink coffee for pleasure, right? >> rose: yes. because caffeine could be a reason to drink coffee, but there are many other ways to get caffeine.

so if you choose coffee, it's because it's pleasure. so in the last 20 years, and particularly starting from this country from the united states, a positive revolution made coffee much more aesthetically experiential. this has been inspired by italy, the italian espresso, barist, the culture of italian coffee came to this country. then this positive revolution made not only coffee to become more popular, more accessible, but thanks to quality, much better quality, coffee was able to develop the goodness -- pleasure, much better quality in the cup, better beans, better preparations call the and consistency and better places to envoy coughy, more variety, different recipes, very much

like wine. >> rose: coffee beans are grown in how many different countries? >> coffee is grown in 70 countries all in the south of the world, most still developing countries, by 25 million families. this is something that is part, let's say, of things that are positive that occurred during these 20 years. >> rose: beyond pleasure, what is the evidence that it's good for you, that it's good for health? >> health. you know, there are 25,000 scientific studies about coffee and health which, particularly in the last 15 years, confirm coffee is not bad for health. >> rose: talking about good he'll, not the absence of bad. >> many studies say coffee prolong your life. seven of those studies only last year. so in the slogan, we say if you drink coffee, you live better and longer. >> rose: how is it this prolongs your life?

>> this is unnorthern, but very probably because it's the most effective preventative fuel against the elder aged diseases. >> rose: then i'm going to live forever. >> the degenerative diseases like alzheimer's and parkinson's are prevented or postponed by coffee. >> rose: there is medical evidence? >> neurological, statistical evidence. no clinical studies because this is a little bit more difficult to get. >> rose: why is it difficult to get clinical studies? >> they're typically very long, they require a lot of budget and too many people, of course, and there are many, you know, compounding factors. so this is why clinical studies are a little bit difficult to make. >> rose: but some people talk about coffee beans as having kind of an antioxidant factor. >> it is. this might be one of the reasons why coffee is so good for health, because it's -- in the american diet, in particular,

it's the number one contributor of antioxidants. all the substances which are responsible for the brown color of coffee, so-called melanadines, are antioxidants. there are antioxidants in coffee combined with this to make a strong antioxidant effect. >> rose: take me from the beans to the cup. >> well, the bean is grown on a rubiache plant. two species are grown. one is the best quality which two-thirds is produced in latin america, and brazilian being far the leader. the other one is a robusta, a lower grade. the crop is one time per year. each time you make the crop, you can process the crop either by letting the cherry in which you

have the coffee beans drying under the sun or by washing and fermenting, very much like wine. once the coffee is processed, you have to take a lot of care in the ergonomickicle processes because you can damage the quality on the plant by mismanaging the ergonomicle practices. this is why we create the universe of coffee to teach the growergrowers about their practs for the coffee. the coffee is bagged and exported. we import from 208 countries. >> rose: for a pe a perfect ble? illy has one blend. the best can only be one. the only brand in the world offering only one blend. it's a blend of nine beans

exclusively made for illy by these growers which have been trained in brazil, costa rica, got mall lou, india -- guatemala and india and other countries. so we receive all the beans. we store them because we have to buy these beans immediately after the crop in order to make sure all of the best possible has been made for us exclusively. so we must buy immediately. we store the coffee, blend and roast. roasting is one of the exclusive knowledge, really, in order to really -- because you know that all of the 1,000 aromas of coffee are generated during roasting. people don't know that. the flavors which are present in the green coffee have nothing to do with the final flavor of roasted coffee. so actually quality is originated in the bean and then during roasting, this is a

critical phase i. >> rose: america is a coffee-drinking country. >> yes. >> rose: even more so than tea, i think. >> america is the number one coffee market in the world by far, and not only is also dynamically growing, also in value, let's say increase in the value per cup consumed, which is really an interesting thing. >> rose: i'm asking that because when you took over the company as c.e.o., it was you and 29 countries, correct? >> yes, we were in 29 countries and now we are in 144. it became global. >> rose: and that was under your initiative. >> it was. you know, no personal initiative. we are a family and we are a team, so we operate all together. so, yes, it was something i

executed along with my team. >> rose: what has starbucks done for coffee? >> yes, they changed the culture. they brought quality coffee to the americans. as a matter of fact, before their a arrival, their development, it was nearly impossible to get a decent cup of coffee out of home. so they kind of filled the gap because there were no places to drink coffee. so this idea of the italian cafe, the italian bars in the united states was good for success of getting quality. and also for the consumer discovering the coffee culture. >> rose: in your market you talk about high end but not luxury? >> high end, not luxury because coffee is inclusive, so everybody should be able to afford a good cup of coffee. so it's something that you cannot make exclusively for the point that you exclude consumers from coffee. >> rose: has your mission changed since your grandfather

founded the company? >> well, we are still pursuing the dream. the dream of offering the greatest coffee is constantly, let's sea, implemented by -- it's constantly, let's say, implemented by adding new technologies, and initiatives. it's a challenge mission that we have. it's about the best coffee nature can provide enhanced with the best technology and beautiy. technology besides processing, we need the coffee equipment, as we spoke. we develop and produce our own coffee machines. >> rose: and how much has that contributed to your overall revenue? >> well, whichever coffee is produced that's consumed daily which is about 7 million cups per day should be brewed or prepared with an illy machine. >> rose: but are they? nos they not all 100%.

i would say 20% of these coffees are made with our machines, but it's progress. >> rose: and how do you expect to grow in the next decade? >> well, the hospitality is a very interesting market worldwide. more and more coffee is drawn out of home, cafes, hotels, restaurants. this is a great market. it's our core market, as a matter of fact. we are extremely specialized in these markets since 80 years. we have a business model in which we literally can offer our customer all the services they need including education, training for their employees, consultancy for the shop design, whatever is need, equipment, whatever is needed they get. >> rose: thank you for coming. my pleasure. >> rose: your home is still tieste? >> yes, the capital of coffee. >> rose: because of your grandfather? >> no, my grandfather founded the company there where the

coffee already is. we finished the expo in milan in 2013 which for the first time in history was about food, feeding the plant, energy for life, and created the great opportunity for the largest celebration of coffee in all times. we were the coffee par partner. we had a chance to manage the coffee cluster with ten producing countries. we had 30 million visitors, only the coffee clusters, and we took the opportunity to celebrate tireste as the capital of coffee. >> rose: thank you for coming. pleasure to have you here. >> my pleasure. >> rose: thank you for joining us. see you next time. >> rose: for more about this program and earlier episodes, visit us online at pbs.org and charlierose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications

captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. >> rose: on tomorrow's pbs "newshour", making sense of who is cashing in on a loophole in immigration law.

this is "nightly business report" with tyler mathisen. >> seven year low where oil prices settled after tumble 6% sending stocks sliding and investors questioning. warning sign. a part of the bond market could be entd sending a message. >> global coffee empire. does the buyout of keurig green mountain make sense. >> we begin with the intengsifying energy sector, a decline taking the stock market