>> rose: welcome to the program. we begin this evening with politics and talked to glenn thrush of politico. >> trump is actually starting to sleep in motels and go to churches. so cruz obviously has, i think, a inherent advantage with evangelicals who make up a large percentage of the base there. but trump scored a major endorsement today with jerry falwell's son. this will go down to the end and both of these guys are getting bitter in their criticism of each other. >> rose: we talk with donald rumsfeld with a new app that let's you play church solitaire. >> you shouldn't have multiparty systems so if anybody runs for

independent probably what they ought to do is announce if and when they are elected, they will serve as a republican or a democrat. >> rose: in the interest of the two party. >> in the interest of the two party system. i think fracturing our party system would be un unquelt for . >> we end with chelsea chandler starring in a new series on netflix. >> what people do is issue license for me to really enjoy a different medium of what i do, to enjoy kind of being creative in a completely different format, pretty vulnerable for me. when you do a show for so long and showing one side of you people think that's one side of you. and i thought people know who i am i'm honest and open it's a one dimensional way for people to see you. >> rose: glenn thrush, donald rumsfeld and chelsea handler when we continue.

>> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> rose: additional funding provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: we begin with evening with politics, nine presidential candidates have six days to go until the iowa caucuses, a fox news surveys shows hillary clinton ahead bernie sanders by six points. donald trump is over the field. glenn thrush is the chief correspondent for politico. last week he sat down with president obama for an extensive

interview. plead to have him back on this program. welcome. >> great to be here charlie. >> rose: let's talk about the republicans in iowa. what's it look at this moment with a snapshot where we are. >> this looks like a two-man race. donald trump who is really within the margin of error with ted cruz. trump really seems to be working for it this time. you know, my former colleague maggie aberman who you knows wrote a story a couple days ago talking about how trump is starting to sleep in motels and go to churches. so cruz obviously has, i think, a inherent advantage with evangelicals who make up a large percentage of the base there. but trump scored a major endorsement today with jerry falwell's son. i think this is going to go down to the very very end. both of these guys are getting increasingly bitter in their criticism of one another. >> rose: is that sticking on either side. clearly trump races the issue of birth at every point and other

issues. >> well hebq=attack seems to bes picking up ironically on a jeb bush attack line which is that ted cruz is a jerk. you know, the man is not super popular among republicans especially on capitol hill which is kind of funny donald trump calling ted cruz a jerk. but i just think at this point in time, cruz has been on the ground longer, he has more conventional campaign. i just wonder if donald trump coming fairly late to the game in terms of organizing in iowa is going to be a real issue. you know, i still tend to think, a lot of my colleagues disagree with me, i still tend to give the even to ted cruz here. >> rose: ted himself has said trump could be unstoppable if he won iowa and then goes on to win new hampshire. >> yes. that's true enough but it behooves ted cruz to down play his own strength at this point. remember, he's trying to motivate people. just like hillary clinton, the folks on the democrat side, a

huge part of the motivation is to stop trump impulse arguing he is more electable. i think you're going to hear a lot more of ted cruz poor mouthing his own performance. >> rose: what about marco rubio who won the endorsement of the des moines register. >> he's not exactly getting big mo out of that. rubio, i call it a small mammal strategy that he had for most of the campaign. let the dinosaurs fight it out and he kind of stays alive. i think that has back fired. he doesn't really have a distinctive brand. he's picking up endorsements. he picked up a couple other endorsements today. rubio i think really has got to move beyond kind of this bland slip through the cracks kind of guy. sooner or later he's going to have to attack donald trump really directly the way cups did which raises cruz's profile yet to see if he's got that in him. >> rose: let's turn to the democrats in terms of sanders and the impact of the debate, the most recent debate. does it make a difference.

we see hillary clinton talking about brake obama. president obama. does his pronouncing make a difference in iowa. >> i think it does to some extent. look, you know, she in the last debate e hugged barack obama so hard he needs a new set of ribs. he's still money in iowa. it's the reason i interviewed him. iowa was a transcendent moment for him. he's interring the twilight of his presidency looking back on it as the greatest experience in his life. he thinks it's emblem matic. his coin still has great value. and one of i think one of the

more sneaky and effective attack of sanders by the clinton folks had to do with the healthcare argument. where she said sanders is undermining obama's legacy. we have known for a long long time that the obama folks, the staffers really got along very well. we've also known that obama for instance was very down on the joe biden candidacy. he didn't act out on that but he know his personal preference if biden did not run. one of the things i found really interesting in my conversation with him, i did not have to push him very hard for him to first say that he did not think that burn he sanders phenomena was like the barack obama phenomenon. i asked if he thought bernie sanders was a one issue candidate orwell rounded enough to do the job. he stood up and pointed to the desk and he said two weeks ago

i'm sitting there writing the state of the union speech and someone comes in and says a bunch of our sailors just got captured by the iranian. that's the nature of this job things you can't anticipate. i think it was pretty clearly aimed at sanders, what you perceives, obama perceives and hillary does too. >> rose: they say they like the race with republicans and democrats who they think could handle the job tomorrow. one they say is hillary clinton and one clearly is they say is john kasich because of his experience in government and the other one they say is jeb bush. those are three they say will be comfortable in the office. >> it's really interesting charlie. in the last republican debate, one of the features of it i think was really overlooked. i covered whitehouse for three and-a-half years with obama and jeb bush speaks the language of the american president z the real language of the presidency.

that's crummy campaign politics. that doesn't sell. no one wants to hear that but the truth of the matter is when you hear jeb bush talking about the presidency, for instance arguing with donald trump on trade and what for instance banning try cheez products to do in terms of the backlash against american manufacturers. those are the real things that a president has to consider. i think you're totally right. i think clinton has an advantage over sanders speaking in sometimes complicated, sometimes incredibly boring detail about what she would do as president but that really is the vocabulary of the american presidency. and bernie sanders for all of his inspiration and capacity to galvanize young people is not speaking that same language. >> rose: what happens when sanders makes the point she's come to positions he's long held. >> ipoint. you know, remember the issue, the biggest vulnerability clinton has in the polls is this trust question. and it's universal. it's on the republican side and

it's on the democratic side. the only difference is some progressives a lot of progressives in the democratic party are willing to kind of hold their nose and deal with that. undermining her trust, particularly in sanders case where he1.l%t threw away th5isse thought was a big mistake in the first debate he needs to undermine people safe. that under minds her competence. you can't argue you're competence if people can't trust you. that is core to his argument. but i really think in the last couple days, as people are getting a sense of whether or not they want to deliver a win to bernie sanders. this is by the way another thing obama said to me in the oval office i thought was fascinating. he talked about his own defeat in new hampshire after iowa as a correction as a proper response by the electorate in a democratic party. that he wasn't ready to get the nomination. that new hampshire was putting on the brakes and saying wait a second, we like this guy obama

but we need to give hillary, somebody more experienced a second look. to some extent that is the argument that the clinton folks are making that we need to take a look at sanders see if he's really up to the job. obama made it to me and we've seen some late movement at least in the fox poll over the last 8 hours she's getting some league. this is hillary's vulnerability and this is repeat of 08 which was a story line a week ago into a real question as to whether or not bernie sanders can be president of the united states. >> rose: finally michael bloomberg and the "new york times" story and all this speculation. can you imagine circumstances in which circumstances, likely circumstances that might suggest a pathway for an independent? with his qualifications. >> apart from like a post

apocalyptic mad max type scenario at which he is one of ten people standing. i'm being dismissive but i don't think there's a market out there for an extraordinarily wall street-connected centrist right now. i think what you are seeing in both parties, we are the time of extremes. we have a person in the case ofe bernie sanders didn't even identify as a democrat for a long time. really did it this year. he was a democratic socialist who is competing very fiercefully against hillary clinton for the nomination. you got a guy in donald trump who refused at the first debate to even say he's a republican nominee. i think bloomberg's a big problem apart from the fact he's a 74 year old billionaire made his money on wall street at a time when that is not a popular thing. i'm just saying in this political climate where you have the donald trump's in the world having such traction. to use his own terms, i don't think there's a tremendous market right now. >> rose: but donald trump

clearly is from the establishment if you look except his rhetoric this year because of immigration and other issues has cast him as someone against the establishment and someone against who wants to restore america in a variety of ways in his mind. >> yes. but i would point out that you ke bloomberg sought before the mayoralty. he ran unsuccessfully to run the central park conservancy, right. a few years before donald trump ran for president, he was going to wrestling matches and debating, having these shouting matches with vince mcmahon, the head of the world wrestling federation. so you're talking about guys who come from kind of the same place and have similar fortunes but they couldn't possibly be different. >> rose: let me talk about finally the notion of the republicans finally. with the republican establishment, is it sim

late for them to stop either trump or cruz? >> well, if they do it, they can't do it under the banner of the republican establishment. my buddy jonathan martin at the time told a great story today talking about this real panic that set in among sort of the standard country club republicans and kind of the industry leaders that tended to dominate the party. i think that horse has left the barn. i mean i just think we're dealing with an electric that is now sort of on fire and wants to see a result puts the pots on all houses. i don't think the republican establishment in a conventional sense can stop this. the real interesting question here is if a trump or cruz becomes the nominee, will they put the force of their fortunes behind him. will we see the republican party unifying in any way to take on a candidate let's say if it's clinton. or will we see the kind of fracturing we have seen in the past that has doomed parties. >> rose: that was an interesting piece today i think

in the times where they talked about where is the democratic party today and is it moving left. thank you so much glenn. great to see you. great interview with the president. >> thanks charlie. >> rose: we'll be right back. stay with us. >> rose: donald rumsfeld is here. he served twice as secretary of defense and presided over the wars in afghanistan and iraq. he has now have into a new territory as an app developer. he has a game called solitaire played by the brittic prime minister during world war ii. here the trailer for the game. >> the landing grounds. which will never surrender. >> for decades churchill and stole his wits. solitaire ever devised has been booked to life in a new

generation. churchill solitaire willyou com. until victory is won. challenge your friends and family,;d compete against thousands worldwide and using skill coming advance losing the ranks to become prime minister. do you deserve victory. now for free in the app store. i give in. >> rose: i am pleased to have donald rumsfeld app developer at the table. who could believe this could be. >> i know at 83 years old i had to learn what an app was before we could do this. >> rose: take me to the story. you were a nato ambassador. >> i was u.s. ambassador to nato in brussels belgium in 1973 and 4. there was a very senior belgium diplomat there named andre stark. he had been the private

secretary to the king of belgians when they were in exile. >> rose: during world war ii. >> during world war ii and they occupied belgians. he became a confident kind of a port she. >> rose: 29 years old. >> very young. churchill took to him apparently and taught him this game of solitaire with two decks. and they had miniature cards because your eye span couldn't take big cards. and when we were in nato together, we traveled, go to turkey and various places in nato countries and he taught me this game.$#çó i played it ever since. since 1973. and enjoyed it. >> rose: how good are you. >> oh, who knows. my wife and i play every day or two.

>> rose: every day or two. >> in the morning after breakfast or something we'll be playing a game. i'm retired. would be ungracious of me toof even comment on who is ahead. >> rose: you're ahead. and you have commented. so what is it about the game that makes it so interesting for you? because you wrapped it around the idea that it is great to teach strategy. solitaire teaches strategy. >> well it is so complicated. as opposed to regular solitaire with two decks. instead of seven piles you have ten. and then you have six cards up above. and you have to get those cards on the ace's up above. you can't pull them down. you have to be thinking three, four, five plays ahead. you have to anticipate and think about whether it's better to turn over one of the cards ask know what that's going to be. or to take a card from up above.

and it's a delightful game. it's challenging, it's valuesly more complex than normal solitaire. >> rose: more complex than bridge? >> i am not a skillful bridge player. >> rose: but you've played. >> i played. >> rose: you know a lot of smart people think it's the game -- >> i would rank it up there with bridge. >> rose: the other thing you can do -- >> in the old days we didn't have ipads. you might not remember that a young fellow like you but they didn't exist. and now you can compete with someone else via the internet on this game. >> rose: yes. people like warren buffett play on the internet all the time. >> here you can e-mail a challenge and take the same deal and have someone else play that deal, see how many points they get up and how fast they can do it. >> rose: andre stark said something once i thought was rather interesting. what one needs in life are the

pez missal of intelligence and the optimism of will. >> he said that to me and i remembered it. and thought about it and he was quite right. he was the dean of the north atlantic council, the countries that were in it back in those days. was of enormous help to me as the u.s. ambassador. >> rose: there are levels in this game and you can, and it really traces churchill's career. so when you become prime minister, you're playing at the top level. >> well, in the back of my mind, i've got the thought that, you're right, you start out and then you proceed throughout all the rank to finally prime minister. however later he was made sir winston churchill. and maybe some day we ought to

have sir winston churchill even above the prime minister. >> rose: what would you think of a man who would oppose making winston churchill a citizen? >> i didn't oppose it. >> rose: you didn't. >> no. >> rose: what did you oppose. people are writing that. >> yeah and it's not true. i doubt that anyone can suggest that. i think i may have raised the question -- >> rose: when you start doingc j"it. and my recollection is that we now have three. one was the marquis day law yet which i understand. i don't know if there are any others. i remember being in congress at some point. >> rose: it's done rarely, it's okay with you. >> yes, it has to be something very special. >> rose: what was it about churchill you think that made him? because if you look at where he

was when he went from the admiralty to prime minister. >> he had a marginal career. >> rose: exactly. and had been in the wilderness. >> exactly. >> rose: he said when he entered 10 downing i think in 41, everything i have done has prepared me for this moment. everything i have done. >> and he was right. and he did a superb job and of course i was alive during that period. i remember the voices of churchill and the voices of franklin roosevelt. my father was out on a ship in the pacific during world war ii and i was living in san diego. it was a navy town and those figures were important. >> rose: people say that in the end, he instilled in first

britain, later the world never never -- >> yes. that's part of our trailer in this. it's good, it's a good thing for people to be linked to history and to hear its voice and to have those connections. >> rose: left me talk about two things about it. one is about solitaire and its app. one is the notion that there was devil six, right. that's part of the game and part of the challenge. two, there's something you have called one$4(a a hint and redo. >> and in life a hint would be if i picked up the phone and called andre du stark and asked him something isúz coming up in mail what do you know about this. talk to someone that's got more experience done things you haven't done and can give you some advice. on the other hand undoes, there's very few undos in life. >> rose: you can't rewrite it. >> so the undos are there and the hints are there. i think they should be used very

sparingly. >> rose: suppose michael bloomberg called you up and said people want me to run as an independent for president. you've had experience at national government at different levels. congress and chief of staff at the whitehouse. you served as ambassador to nato. what should i do. >> oh, my goodness that's something only he can figure out. he has to go with his stomach. what he feels good about. >> rose: is it doable. >> i thought about that. and it seems to me that our country, one of the things great about our country is we're a two party system. we're not a multiparty system. and smaller countries can be multiparty. i think our country, a small party can pull governments down in certain nations in europe. in our country, that wouldn't be a healthy thing to have permanently multiparty system. so i think if anyone ever runs

as an independent, that probably what they ought to do is announce that if and when they are elected,os they will serve s a republican or a democrat. >> rose: in the interest of the two party. >> in the interest of the two party system. because i think fracturing our party system would be unhealthy for us. >> rose: can you imagine that if it's thrown to the house of representatives where they select a president, the senate selects the vice president, that necessarily republicans as a majority wouldn't necessarily vote for their candidate but mike bloomberg is a successful businessman and successful politician as mayor. someone in their conscious look for whatever reason they didn't think the republican candidate had enough experience, had enough temperament or enough judgment. >> it seems to me what will happen there will be discussions and debates and there will be a lot of maneuvering and that process is designed to be

political in nature. and people will talk and deal and make remarkments and discuss things and find out what will happen if this happens and what will happen if that happens. and it's unpredictable. >> rose: this split co-magazine reported this weekend about a now declassified report that you send to general richard meyers but which had been put together by someone as i understand it on the joint chiefs of staff. so someone working for general meyers, good man, created a document about what the intelligence taught them about weapons of mass destruction in iraq. >> right. my direction is i think i asked for information. >> rose: he could do that so he had somebody prepare and hemú sent it to you. >> well the joint of chiefs participate in all of the interagency intelligence

meetings. with the central intelligence agency director of central intelligence the state department intelligence, the national security council. and they share all of that. and that information had undoubtedly been part of the original process. i mean, they weren't going, there were no secrets as to what was going on. everyonmfwand the person responr pulling all those threads to a needle end was george -- central intelligence and he did that process and then presented it to the national security council -- oh sure. >> rose: from richard meyers. if george is going to put it altogether. >> that was his responsibility but each agency was asked what they knew, how they knew it. you see that information and all of that information came in to the director of central intelligence staff, and they then presented it to the president taking account of all of that. >> rose: two questions come

out of that and it's recent news. one is quote our knowledge in the report, our knowledge of the iraqi nuclear weapons program, iraqi nuclear weapons program is based largely, perhaps 90% on analysis of imprecise intelligence. >> well one thing to keep in mind is if something is intelligence, it's not a fact. if something's a fact, it's a fact. >> rose: right. >> if something's intelligence, it mean there's judgment involved. it means that a lot of conflicting facts and information are brought together. that is not a surprise at all because we new that saddam hussein had used chemical weapons against its own people. knew he had used chemical weapons against his enables the iranians. >> rose: i think most people and i can be wrong about this would suggest that the fear wasm saddam had nuclear weapons. >> i don't think there was fear -- >> rose: then why -- >> they had chemical -- >> rose: why did we go to war

then. >> well the president looked at all the intelligence from a the central intelligence agency and made a judgment that the threat from saddam hussein and his opposition to the u.n. resolutions were sufficient. that that was the appropriate thing to do. he briefed the congress, he briefed the u.n. colin -- colin powell took all of that information. >> rose: and took it through the course. >> seasoned person dealing with bell gent products and concluded what he said at the u.n. now after the war, a man named charles delford said they had to do biological weapons they had the precursor and they had the cadre of people who had the know how and it would be a better of some weeks not years for them to reconstitute their chemical and

biological program. i don't remember them saying what you said. >> rose: let me say this point. and have you, because it says interesting thing about how government operates. you said this is big. when you saw the report, you said this is big. >> well anything that was like that seemed to me ought to be a part of the process. and it was. >> rose: okay. but then it was but you didn't call up colin powell and say -- >> i wasn't in charge of intelligence. >> rose: you saw something that big. wouldn't you want to share it immediately. >> we did, they did, you can be sure of that. >> rose: you didn't feel a responsibility to pass it on to anybody because you assumed that what. >> i didn't assume anything. i knew that the central intelligence agency was having meeting after meeting after meeting with people from defense, the civilians, military staff from the c.i.a. and the

state department and all those people were doing that. that was their job to do. that was the statutory responsibility of the director of central intelligence. >> rose: how concerned arenm you about how iraq has turned out. >> oh my goodness. you know, repression works. a dictator can impose his will and kill people and imprison people. and once that's gone, free people are free to do good things and they're also free to do perfectly horrible things. and disorder in libya and syria, in iraq and many countries in that part of the world is serious problem for the world. i mean we're facing a long struggle against radical islamists. and it's going to be years. >> rose: al-qaeda. >> well they're going to change their names and there will be off-shoots and it doesn't make an awful lot of difference. what you're talking about is people who are perfectly willing to die and kill themselves, killing other people. there are people who are fundamentally against the concept of a nation state.

they want to impose a caliphate. >> rose: they started to because they now have territory. >> there are people who are skillful at using social media and organizing, recruiting -- >> rose: what is the rule -- rumsfeld plan with all of your time at the state department what would you have america do. >> the first thing to recognize this is not one with bullets over time. you're going to have to, the basic principle of economics is if you want more of something you reward it. if you want less of it you penalize it. what has to be done is the united states is going toto proe non-muslim world and in the muslim world to get a coalition of people who are willing to find ways to squeeze off the money that it's going to them. find the financiers. >> rose: where is that coming from. >> from most basically in that region. >> rose: in other words you think governments are

providing -- >> not government, people. >> rose: people. not governments but people from that region from saudi arabia and from other countries. >> largely. >> rose: largely. are providing the financial support. >> you've got to squeeze off their rekrafting skills. and one of the ways to do that is to find out where the people are flowing there. but the second way to do it is to make sure that it becomes increasingly clear that it's painful to be recruited. >> rose: they pay a price. >> yes. they're not going to win. a lot of people want to be on the winning side. >> rose: that's why the people say the caliphate and the territory they hold recruiting symbol for them. >> exactly. it's a victory. it's we're the winners. we're on a role. >> rose: here's interesting. donald rumsfeld from the secretary of defense steps forward and says we have to do a lot of things in terms of using other assets like social media,

like economics, like intelligence. rather than beating them on the battle fields. >> exactly. >> rose: we have to stop technique and it's physically impossible to defend every place at every moment of the day or night against every conceivable terrorist technique. you can't do it. therefore, you have to find ways to dissuade them. normal deterrents don't work.14 if you're dealing with people who want to die. >> rose: prepared to die. >> prepared to die and if they can be seen as having a crusade, if you use the wrong word, a

movement that's exciting and it's worthwhile and has value, then they're going to be able to recruit people. not just in that part of the world they'll recruit them right out of the country. >> rose: an act of being a member of isis romantic. >> exactly. >> rose: you got to stop that by showing it's not romantic. >> you have to see it's not going to be rewarded. going to be penalize. >> rose: ted cruz says we need to -- headquarters of isis and syria. is that helpful? >> well, i don't know what he meant. i know what i think and what i think is what i've said you have to do. we've got to, let me give you an example. in egypt the leader stood up and talked to the eman in the most important country in the world

in the most important arab city in the world. >> rose: cairo. >> he said this is bad you got to see that your people don't do this. it was barely reported. no one stood up and said good for you, that's exactly right. and there must have been leaders all over the world who agreed with him who said my gosh, he'sall alone. instead of showing support for him, instead of praising that leadership. it wasn't carried, it wasn't discussed. and other people must have said i'm not so sure i'm going to stand up and put a target on my back. >> rose: he's pretty safe, he's got the army backing him in egypt. >> they're not safe. they came sadat it's dangerous what they did. it's dangerous what he did. >> rose: i accept that. he's also controversy for some of the tactics he used.

you know that. >> everybody's controversial. you're not going to get a hundred percent out of any leader in other country. you have different languages, you have different cultures. >> rose: whatever he's doing you're saying it's okay with me because it's necessary to achieve his objectives. >> i wouldn't say that it's okay with me. what i would say is we live in a big world. there are countries that that are different. there are different cultures, there are different languages, there's different histories, they have different neighborhoods. and the idea that everyone has to be exactly like us is unrealistic and nonsense cull. >> rose: having to do even with democracy. >> yes. when we say that word, you wanted to impose a template on them and it doesn't fit them necessarily. in fact we're still evolving. my goodness -- >> rose: the argument is look it took you a while -- >> until the 1800's. women didn't vote until the 1900's. >> rose: so you say we should

give them some slack regarding other countries including iraq. >> you can't expect others to be like us. because we're not like we were 50 years ago, a hundred years years ago and we're not like we're going to be in 50 years. >> rose: you're÷>> and i'm a g. >> rose: you have good genes and you're going to lead a long life. how do you want america to remember donald rumsfeld. >> i don't think about that. people who spend their time worrying about their legacy, they should worry about doing the right thing for the country. >> rose: that's a misconception about you that doesn't bother you at all. >> what good can you do. all you can do is get up in the morning and do your best. >> rose: so from the position of observing and a party you have served, who best reflects donald rumsfeld out of the candidates.

>> i don't have any idea. i don't even know half of them. >> rose: they've been debating for a year. >> and i've watched every one f them. >> rose: what conclusion have you come to. >> my conclusion is we don't need four more years of the last eight years. that a change in administrations would be a good thing for the country. >> rose: whether it's a democratic own republican administration that would be a change in administration. >> one would represented a greater change than the other. >> rose: what change do you want to see. >> i want to see someone in there who can provide this country and the world leadership. if we create a vacuum in the world, and i believe we have, i think the result of that is that the vacuum gets filled and it gets filled by people who don't have our values and don't have our interests. >> rose: and do you believe that's exactly what vladimir putin has done in syria. he stepped in a vacuum and now

he's a player and at the table. >> sure he's a player and one of the best things that happened iv the soviet union stopped existing and they were no longer an influence in the middle east until recently. >> rose: what is your central indictment of the past four years that you think is so dramatically in need of a change? is it america. >> let me give you an answer real quick. what's the greatest threat facing our country? people say well it's cyber attacks or it's nuclear weapons in china. >> rose: that's what most people think it is. >> terrorism. i worry about all the millions of decisions being made all across the globe that we don't know about. it's the policeman's wife or spouse in baltimore who sidals up to him and say gee isn't it time notjñ to be a policeman. it's the philippines who see what's going on by the chinese

and the boat comes up to the philippine parliament and he says be dammed, it's okay, the chinese can do anything they want in our part of the world. maybe i'll vote with them instead of the united states or japan or the west or the republican of korea. it's the political leader in indonesia who listances to also see's speech. nobody sees him and puts a target right on his forehead and he's thinking maybe i should say the same thing and he said maybe i won't, maybe i won't do that. there are millions of decisions being made by human beings all across the globe that reflect what's happening in the globe in the world, their world. >> rose: does it surprise you that president of iran has been vocal about attacking and very vocal about the danger of isis?

>> well, i was asked a question what happens if they are taking off and i said iran will continue and probably have more resources to support terrorism. they're the principal supporter of terrorists organizations. >> rose: you mean hezbollah. >> and hamas. they used their proxy in syria for it. so sure, anyone with any sense is concerned about terrorism particularly home grown terrorism. and the fact that he's worried about some of that might not be saying his model is fine but they are supporting activity terrorist organizations. >> rose: take a look at this photograph. that's you on the right in your business suit. that's a diplomatic suit. in the middle is. >> that's russell train. >> rose: right. >> on the left is andre. >> rose: that's andre. i should say one last thing about this app which we started

with. all the money. >> i think you are sufficiently educatable that you could plan. >> rose: maybe, maybe. >> you'll like it. it's challenging. >> rose: you think i have the capacity to learn. >> i have no doubt about it. >> rose: i should make this point that you are giving all the profits to whatever it may be. you and i think someone else. >> well the churchill profits go to the churchill foundation in the support of their activities and mine will be going, if they exist, will be going to military charity. >> rose: good for you. thank you for coming. >> you bet. >> rose: good to see you. >> good to see you. >> rose: back in a moment. stay with us. >> rose: chelsea handler is here. she began her careersi wanting o be an actor but quickly made the transition to stand up comedy. her ultimate goal was simple. she says i just wanted to be famous and she certainly achieved that ambition with a debut of her e network talk show chelsea lately in 2007.

for seven seasons the show featured her brutally honest brand of humor and earned you are the distinctionion as the only female host in late night television. vanity fair anointed her the queen of comedy and said quote even while working as a stand up headliner or the host of her own show, she gives the impression of a kid cracking dirty jokes in the back of the classroom. netflix documentary series chelsea does. the project marks a significant turning point in her perspective and her career. each episode explores a different topic ranking from love and marriage to race blending element of humor and humanity. the series offers a more nuance view and serve as a bridge to her up coming netflix talk show premiering in may. here's a look at chelsea does.

>> this is happening. you want to get married when you get older because i'm not married. and how old do you all think that i am. >> 28. >> that's right. have you ever smoked -- >> i like sex so much better than others but it's all good. >> when i got in trouble at the mission league it was because should we dress up as hitler. >> it was hanukkah in my defense. >> i think it is so important to be able to make fun of store oh types. >> tell me the last time you visited an american indian reservation. >> probably the last time -- >> there you go. i would love to see what that life is like. she's leading the charge live on the internet. very interesting comedian among netflix. what is it. i'm not really sure. i'm just trying to understand why people do this. i didn't know you guys were married and you don't cheat. >> not yet.2í

>> hey girl. >> you think i'm a robot. what makes you say that. >> wait, sorry. >> are you trying to annoy me. >> the only way we break down barriers is you got to break them down in that individual. >> what do you think about sobriety. >> i'm sore judgment. >> the reason i'm doing a documentary is i'm questioning things i never did before. >> and telling the world this is how i feel. >> i want to live in a place where a person of every color is able to hit on me. >> i would like to be spiritual. i don't want to talk about god a lot. >> not opposed to that. >> i don't mean to be judgmental. wow that's so stupid. >> but i am, on me. >> she looks like she just climaxed. >> rose: i'm pleased to have

chelsea handler at this table for the first time. so tell me how you define who you are. give me a sense of how your sense of self. >> my sense of self. i would say that i am falsely self assured and i like -- >> rose: falsely? why falsely. you don't really have any deep confidence that you're going to make it big? >> no. i have a confidence in my ability to like get something. i have confidence in my ability to take a lot of chances. that's what i'm really good at. >> rose: so you't are -- >> right. >> rose: you gave up a show that was successful to go do something else. >> i was bored and i wanted to be brighter than that. i wanted to burn brighter. i didn't want to look back and go why did you do that for so long. i didn't want to be disappointed on that. >> rose: what is that about. >> this is one dimensional. it's a show about a celebrity. it would bore anybody. even if you love celebrities and that's all you wanted to talk about. after seven years of doing it

you wanted to slit your wrists and of course i didn't want to slit my wrists but i wanted to get out of their quickly every day. >> rose: so you went into doing documentaries. >> i went in there to ted. i said ted listen up. >> rose: i'm here. >> i need you to finance my college education because i didn't go and you guys need to foot the bill. >> rose: i'd have done the same thing. >> i want to do these four documentaries go get me great documenttairntz. i didn't know anything about that arena and i wanted to use the muscles and not be autonomous. in my show i controlled everything, i was in charge of everything. >> rose: are you still. >> no. are you listening? >> rose: yes. it's your show you can still control them. so the fact you needed out of that does not man you still don't want to control everything. >> okay pipe down you're right you're not wrong. but i did want them to steer me. steer me in a direction, steer me in a way you're challenging me and pushing me.

because if i were left to my own devices i wouldn't say go out and meet with my exboyfriend 20 years ago in one of my documentaries or go on a blind date to explore the notion of marriage and dating services. i want to put myself in situations that i find to be cheesier embarrassing. i actually did rely on them to force me to kind of flex my muscles where i had no muscles to flex. >> rose: you found your muscles. >> i did. at are really good at whatfound they do was a huge license for me to be really enjoy a differ medium of what i do, to enjoy kind of being creative in a completely different format, making, being pretty vulnerable for me. when you do a and you're just showing one side of you people just think that's all of you. i assumed everybody knows who i am because i'm honest and open and it's a very one dimensional way for people to see you. obviously everyone is

multidimensional that you mentioned earlier while we were off the air or on the air whatever. >> rose: i don't remember either. they mesh into one. >> it's a great exercise for me, a great interesting thing and i got to explore subjects i don't know anything about and subjects i do and i'm really proud of it. it's the first thing i've been proud of in a while. >> rose: really. >> yes. really. >> rose: is the first definition of you comedian. >> i don't identify as that. i mean, i did stand up for many years that's what gave me my career. it was entree into the world of what i did for a long time. i don't see myself ever doing stand up again. i kind ofi# put that hat down. for me that went with the show and it was two things that kind of work together. i don't see myself doing stand up anymore. i'm not interested. i feel like i did that. i got great at it and now i want to get great at something else. >> rose: that something else is film making. >> i'm doing the document documentaries, it will be a bridge to my new show in may and i wanted to do

something to intrusion my audience where i was going and direction i was headed in. and that direction is over there by the way. it's not a net late show because it's on netflix. the beauty of netflix is you can watch it whenever you like. that's the direction i'm going in so i could have a broader scope of conversation and i could talk about politics. i think the thing i hear the most that i find that i'm a white jewish woman. i don't know if it's offensive. when people talk about how jewish people kind of recovered from their holocaust, you know. jewish people are successful, they're all doctors and lawyers and dentists or whatever u you know, working on wall street. whereas black people, the argument is or the point that people make is that it's harder for them to recover. i can talk about news and sexism and racism and all the stuff -- >> rose: i don't know why you couldn't talk about them in your

previous show. >> because i was before the kardashians. when you're singularly defined, you kind of stuck, they always say to me i need to do other stuff. talk about politics, this is such a specific platform i didn't want to be ever one of those people acting out of school. i was already acting out of school. to talk about this. it just wasn't the right environment for that and i knew that and i thought i have to get a way to do what i want to do. >> rose: here's my impression of you. >> oh, can't wait. >> rose: you sam to me to be someone, you pursued netflix. >> yes. i like to be the pursuer. >> rose: exactly. you are the pursuer. right. >> rose: you found netflix to be a kindred spirit. >> they're smarter than me.

it's great to not be the smartest person in the room. >> rose: or never to think of yourself as the smartest person in the room. >> do you think of yourself as the smartest person in the room. >> rose: no because i know what i know and i want to know what other people know. >> you have been in an environment where you feel you know more than the people around you because you're running the show. >> rose: i don't feel i know more than anybody around me.ol i feel the a people around me have specific talents that far exceed mine. i have a broader experience and talent but they come to this table and this program with specific experiences, from different countries, specific educational experiences. social talents. >> right. yeah. >> rose: you want all that. what you want to do is bring that together that diversity to inform and infuse what you're trying to do. >> whatoc/j do you think is yor

strongest talent in what you do? >> rose: everything i do is based on that. whether it's reporting or anchoring cbs this morning or this program which is eventually interviewing. >> when do you find your curiosity is waning? like what do you do when you're supposed tush curious and you're not. >> rose: i think you have a real sense of, you have a sense of risk and a sense of willing to dive into the deep end of the pool. >> yes. >> rose: right. >> yes, always. >> rose: that brashness is also seen and that's part of your persona. >> that's also a tricky word. persona's a tricky word. if it's you, it's not your persona. and i think that's when you are -- >> rose: your person. >> yes, my person. a persona is something you're putting on and you're not putting it on. >> rose: it's a pleasure to have you here. >> thank you, thankup you for

having me. pleasure was all mine. >> rose: chelsea chandler. watch her, watch her show. see you next time. captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

on tomorrow's pbs newshour miles o'brien unpack the new research on the potential of artificial intell

apple reports the slowest growth in i phone sales since they went on sale in 2007. what does that mean for shares of the world's most valuable company? curb appeal. plan on shopping for a home this spring? you may be in for sticker shock. : new way to save. the white house has plans to tackle the biggest issue sanding in the way of your retirement. all that and more "nightly business report" for tuesday, january 26th. i'm sue herera. tyler mathisen will join us later in the program for morning star where he interviewed one of 2015 top fund managers today on wall street stocks as they