>> rose: welcome to the program. alan gilbert is the music collector and conductor of the new york philharmonic. he talks about us about his leaving the new york philharmonic, his visions for the future and reflects on music and its role in our life. >> at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter how you play something. it's the fact that you give it your full measure of sincerity. and you bring something fresh and magical to the equation. there's so manyive ways to be a conductor, so many different ways to approach any given piece, what i mean by artistic magic is something that is fresh

and convincing. >> rose: alan gilbert for the hour, next. >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: alan gilbert is here. he has serves the as the director of the new york philharmonic since 1999. he has said he will step down in 2017. that's the focus of his tenure. has by angle and inspired music

festivals. anthony, check classical credit of the "new york times" wrote more than any ofs his predecessors since lynnered bernstein he has tried to explan the template for what a major american orchestra can be. here's a look at him conducting patruska. ♪

>> rose: there it is. the new york philharmonic celebrates its 175th anniversary this year. i am pleased to have alan gilbert at this table, welcome. >> thank you. >> rose: this is a valedictory conversation about your time here at the philharmonic. >> you know it cracks me up to see hat video of patruska because even now that we've done that and a number of other projects that i think have been out of the box in a way that hopefully has made it a bigger box. so it's sort of what we do. it's still amazing to me that we did that at the new york philharmonic. those are the musicians of the new york philharmonic.

they are inhabit iting the role of the ballet. he wrote this mad outdoor scene in winter russia. you saw my resplendent jacket. i played the part of the magician. ten years ago, even ten years ago and i know new york well and i have for a long time. i couldn't have imagined that the new york philharmonic could present something like this. i announced i'm leaving. i'm thinking about the future i'm looking back at the past. i'm allowing myself to be proud. things have really changed. this is not what the orchestra used to be and since the idea at the end of the day is to bring the great music in the orchestral repertoire to life as vividly as possible. this was a production of patruska that really told the story. the audience could really get into it and it broke down barriers and musicians were able to sort of get out of there traditional mythical role that they inhabit in the audience.

forgive me but i thought that was pretty cool. >> rose: so tell me, is that part of what you intended to do when you became. >> well the short answer is yes. >> rose: to change the new york philharmonic? >> yes. you know, it sounds really cheeky to think about changing a paradigm that has been in existence and has been successful and has been then iconic for all these years. >> rose: 175. >> not just the new york philharmonic but orchestra with a capital o. what i felt is that something needs to change and there are a number of reasons for that. the place that music and the arts inhabit in society today is different from what it was even 20 or 30 years ago.

in any case, a priori i wanted to keep the art form fresh. the way that orchestra interact with the public that we serve has needed to change. i couldn't talk about it when i started in the way that i think i can now because we have a track record. at the beginning, if i had come in and said do you know what, throw out the paradigm, it's all going to be different now, people understandably and rightfully would have said what's he talking about. this is the new york philharmonic. how do you improve something that is virtually perfect already. but the thing is that orchestras need to keep music alive. and you know, i find it interesting that so much has been made of the programming, the contemporary music. you referred to it in the intro. i actually haven't done more contemporary music than my predecessors. but we've tried not to slip

anything by. when we do something, we present it withju5& a full confidence ad with full support of the entire institution. thee put a new piece on the program but at the end of the approach it's you know what you don't have to worry about that, this will sent you home happy. the menial we don't quite believe in that. i think that means there's a kind of tokenism that's going on. we've done a lot of different repertoire but everything we've done we've tried to really fit into the big picture. inthe context. so that when we play music the audience conceals we're really behind it. i think that's changed the way people think of the new york

philharmonic. i want it to be the center of dialogue. >> rose: this is what you said in an important speech you made at the philharmonic society election when you were talking about orchestras in the 21st isn't tree. music defines what it is to be human and orchestras will continue to do what we have always done played up lifting thought provoking music. the challenges pacing people in today's world called to something new in the way that music and musicians can touch people's lives on all levels. emotionally and spiritually of course but also socially, psychologically. music has an internal power to move it and increasingly schools and professional music groups are embracing the new role that musicians can fill in touching people's lives. both in and out of the concert hall. >> it's not a new idea. i don't claim to be rethinking

something that has not, creating something that has not existed before. yo-yo ma is a good friend of mine i know you know him well. he's been very inspiring to me incr this last period because hs spoken to me. he said do you know what, alan, you've been music director of the new york philharmonic. you've been there, done that. it's been amazing. it's great what you've done. but now think about what you can do foo use music as the platform others occupy to make the world a better place. he's actually pushed me to think about these things. again it's nothing new. music has always been the international language, the way for people to communicate without words. >> rose: what it means to be human. >> guess. it goes straight to the heart but in the world today which i think we agree facing unprecedented challenges. a shared humanity, some language

that can actually show that we are connected is more important than ever before. i've been talking with -- >> rose: because of conflict around the global world. because of the challenges. >> because this idea -- >> rose: sci7ú>> because of ths and them with the refugee crises, immigration. there's so much, there's so many divisions that are being arbitrarily written, drawn in the sand and music can truly cross these boundaries. i mean i'm not here to talk politics. but daniel baron with his orchestra is doing i think it's amazing. i've been speaking to a friend of mine deputy secretary-general at the u.n. and he of course is using words all the time for diplomatic ends. and interestingly we're talking about a project that will bring music into the diplomatic realm. the way of reinforcing the

message of communication and harmony and shared humanity with music. using essentially music as the peaceful version of the peacekeeping forces. for me this is very exciting. i'm going to continue conducting orchestras, i will continue conducting at the new york philharmonic. but very consciously to be/' thinking about ways we can bring musicians together from disparate backgrounds. >> rose: what podium are you going to do that. >> hopefully it won't only be a response to crises. there will be -- >> rose: ongoing. >> there will be reasons to come together to spread a message that contradicts the actions and the e haven't that have happened. but also when something great happens likewñ the climate accod to actually come together and play in a way that shows yes, do you know what we achieved something together as people. i'm hoping that from the crises standpoint there won't be many

opportunities for a group we are planning to put together to play. but there's a very strong message. we've talked about going outside of the concert hall in new york city. if we think on a global scale and get musicians together to play on maybe what was the battlefield. or where a bomb had gone off in november in paris. it would have been great to be able to do that, such things as that. i think taking this out of the concert hall and putting them in let's say real life. >> rose: you made me bring just a particular orchestra to a place or bringing a new orchestra in terms of bringing diversity of musicians around the world and making them part of the particular event. >> that is my rather lofty ambition and i would love to see musicians come together. and what i'm doing is it's driving my friends crazy because it's all i'm talking about now but when i go to conduct different orchestras around the

world i start talk big this. to say there would be interest is under stating the case. people want to be part of this. there is a feeling among my colleagues wanting to do something and feeling frustrated because we're not dwight sure how to do it. we're just musicians. >> rose: this is the idea this what come out of this is an indication where you want to be in the next five years. >> i would like to continue my life as a musician as a conductor but in a very focused and directed way. use the connections, the clout, the platform that i have to rally musicians from around the world. and not only from the classical world i should say, to be able to come together and spread a message of peace and harmony. and my favorite cartoon about the refugee crises is this little boat and looking up and he says where are you from.

and he looks up and said earth. that's where we're from. >> rose: why couldn't you do that as the conductor and music director ofphilharmonic? why do those two things, why couldn't they go together? >> they do go together. >> rose: of course. and for the new york philharmonic to throw more passion into this galvanizing idea. >> one step at a time. you choose your battles. the new york philharmonic famously played in north korea, okay. despite where we are now with that situation, i still think that that was an amazing statement and that was a door opening. >> rose: what was the statement? the statement was no matter what conflict exists between nations and what hostilities that exist, music is always a place we can come together. >> exactly. it was possible four the new york philharmonic to show up in

north korea. this is my predecessor. they were able to do what they do at the new york philharmonic and it communicated with the people, with a select audience a completely different culture and different background and there's a moment of true human connection. >> rose: they used to have at the state department, u.s. state department ambassadors where people would go and they would sponsor all these kinds of cultural things. maybe it's a better idea it doesn't come from the u.s. government but comes from cultural institutions like the new york philharmonic. but it does seem like such a good idea because culture does have the capacity to transcend politics. at the same time politic is about culture. >> it's inextricably connected but i think it's a more powerful message if it's not connected with politics or political organizations that may have call it baggage. >> rose: go ahead. >> i was just going to say that the idea is a little bit

included in that lecture that i gave which talks about the new position that orchestras can occupy in the world today. orchestras, sorry to get kind of historical and boring on you, but orchestras give concerts. that's what they've always done. that's what they will continue to do. but now partly because it's become necessary totfuture of oy speaking, there's less public support. public schools are not providing classical education. it used to be every high school had an orchestra. now when you study an instrument you almost by definition have to go outside of the public -- >> rose: why did that happen. >> i don't know. it was a shifting of priorities. i mean, it's a deep rooted cultural shift. the arts have changed in their role. i think part is progress with the internet, the choice people

have and entertainment are much in a way broader, more readily available. there's an instant gratification that's possible. you don't have to go to the concert hall to hear a concert. i mean, there are a lot of things that have been going on. but in short, orchestras have i think appropriately picked up the slack and become so much more than simply organizations that present concerts. they are, the way i think about it is orchestras can be a true resource on so many levels. not only musical but educational and building bridges within the cities, the communities that they serve. that's one thing that's actually been fairly new at the new yorkó philharmonic. we've, you know, for a long time been a little bit of an island in the city and now very actively we've reached out to museums, to other schools, to other -- >> rose: saying what. >> saying that we want to work together. that we together can provide something for the city that will be stronger than anyone can do.

>> rose: opera over there at the new york philharmonic. >> we've done a lot of opera. i happen to love opera. that's going to be something that i really am focused in addition to whatever happens with this. >> rose: let me ask you this. why did you choose to leave now? you've said it before that there's going to be a renovation over there. avery fisher hall becoming david -- >> it's no longer avery fisher hall. the hall is going to be completely renovated and it's going to be a very interested time shall we say for the new york philharmonic. >> rose: they'll be on the road. >> -- for possibly more years. the orchestra very practically speaking is going to have to find places to play during this renovation period and we'll have to work on continuing to function as an orchestra but

also have it's connections to the audience. i'm very excited about the announcement and i think it's right for one person to see this process through from beginning to end. and so you know as much as i love the orchestra and powerful as i feel the connection still is with the orchestra, it seemed like the logical time. it sounds like clinical but it just felt like if i had, tended even a year or two longer, then it would have been inevitable. it would have been a much longer span of time. and i'm looking forward to, we were talking about opera, doing more opera. ry useful way for me to bring many elements together. which is kind of the same thing we're talking about with playing together with musicians from around the world. >> rose: where will you be

based. >> that, i asked my wife that question. we're kicking that around. we still have a lovely house just outside of stockholm. my wife is swedish, my kids are bilingual. what i do already is in europe. we may move back but our connections in new york are incredibly strong. the honest answer to that is i'm not yet sure. >> rose: world, the world of opw where they're going to be for the next five years. they know where they'll be performing in 2020. >> actually, i'm one of those people as well. my schedule is booked far into the future. but in terms of where i will be based, if i decide to take a position. >> rose: that's the question. what are you mulling and what kind of a position might you take in addition to this idea you have on having music play a significant role in a world of conflict. >> honestly? having worked at the new york philharmonic one of the iconic orchestras, it's been a joy,

it's been a challenge, it's been unbelievably intense and i dare say perhaps more all consuming and difficult than i hopefully made it look. i'm very interested to do something else as far as the position goes. and it may be opera because that would be a totally different thing. i haven't really gotten my hands on that, the whole opera. >> rose: you're entertaining operas too. >> yes, i am. >> rose: opera. the offers are about opera. >> both. but the opera ones are the ones i'm intrigued by because that's a different thing. >> rose: the president of the new york philharmonic says i think alan has fundamentally changed the dna of the new york philharmonic. if he's right, how have you done that? >> you know, the style with which i've sort of worked at the orchestra i think has been with a kind of soft touch. i've not been prone to histrionic fits and call it

typical maestro behavior. so in that house it's been hopefully calm and maybe deceptively calm. i have worked on changing the expectation that the musicians have about what their job means. you saw the patruska video. it literally would have been inconceivable if=q in my first year said do you know what, guys, for this patruska you have to memorize this passage of music, stand up and dance around and you'll be wearing silly hats by the way as part of a costume. it would have been a flat out no. we had to build up to it. we had to do a production my first year. and very gently that was a conscious progression i had in mind. very simply suggested to the musicians do you know what, at this point you're going to crumple up pieces of paper and throw them at me the conductor. i knew that would be something they would be happyaway as theif foray out of the role of playing

their instruments. little by little, they have shifted their idea of what is normal. the role of a musician, breaking down the fourth wall on the stage. how we interact with our audience off stage. the expectation that musicians have to do more than play music and also advocate for music itself. all of these things have little by little and it's interesting to me now after almost eight years to look back because there has been a progression, things have changed. if i say to the musicians okay we're going to do a wrong and you're going to have to wear a costume that's completely par for the course now. that's something we've had to build all to. from the the audience perspective they're not shocked to see that. they understand within the walls of david geffen hall, arts and music they've known as a certain way will be redefined.

people have known and loved matruska without knowing the story, without knowing what it's about. it's perfectly fine it's a great piece. not only is it a ballet, we had a national dancers, we had puppeteers. but the musicians themselves went out of themselves and created something that was utterly new and literally had never been seen before. >> rose: just to go off in a tangent for a second. when you're asked to conduct the great orchestras of the world as a guest conductor. what do they want you to do. do they want you to bring these ideas to them or do they want you to come in and conduct the great. >> that's a very good question. it's a little bit of both. it depends kind of on the nature of the relationship that exists. so for example, if i go to a new orchestra, it would be very surprising to me if they ask me to bring this production of

patruska. because it's still out there. not at the new york philharmonic but in the world at large. it's an unusual project. but like the berlin philharmonc where i have a long relationship, a friend of mine specifically asked me do you know i saw you do this one production. would you do that with us. croft is a piece that is very, it's gnarlly, written in berlin. >>bz rose: 1980's. >> 198 0's. it's a reaction to the heavy metal rock group. it has lots of loud music, people have to go around the room and lay from descrawments found in junk yards. it's super cutting edge. to do that anywhere is pretty radical. >> rose: they wanted you to do it. >> they were celebrating the

anniversary of the hall so he wanted to do pieces that celebrate space. the space in which music is made. i said i'll do it but you have to promise me that not only the musician but the intair stage crew, the publicity department, everybody has to buy into this because this is something that either you're in or you're out. it won't work if it's a halfway project. so i actually, that was very -- >> rose: how can you promise without knowing the musicians. >> well i do know his musicians. that's why in a place like berlin it was possible to do that. i was happy to do that. he asked me about two pieces that he just announced he's doing. i'm hoping it's not a coincidence. they didn't say anything about us. but anyway there are other people who are trying to do this. when i go as a guest conductor, if it's appropriate, of course i would love to bring these new ideas. but you have to build up to it and that's something it's taken me seven or eight years at the new york philharmonic. >> rose: help me with this.

tell me this from the "new york times." how much of gilbert's tenure is assessed is tied to one's conception of what a music director of a major american orchestra should be. of course the core work involves maintaining the skills of the players and giving excellent performances. but a music director should also be a visionary like a curator. the person who determines that one repertoire needs development or that a particular collection should be placed in storage for a bit. this person must take charge of outreach and education, foster 4dqelationships and be willing t life. i mean it sounds to me like you would say that's everything i was doing. >> that's actually, i think, a very apt description of an

elusive subject. what a music director is and can be. the new york philharmonic is an orchestra that doesn't need musical development in a way. the players are unparalleled. they play so beautifully together. they know how to listen. it's always fun when i see guest conductors. even guest conductor who are accustomed to creating great orchestras. they come to the new york philharmonic. the first rehearsal is frightening because they think what am i going to sing now it sounds so incredible. probably sounds better than most concerts they've ever given at the first rehearsal. having been said, orchestras do need constant care. despite all the philosophical approach matic things i've tried to bring, at the end of the day how the orchestra plays is the most important thing. >>rr rose: how it plays. >> and that requires constant -- >> rose: how it plays rather than what it plays. >> at the end of the day and this may be surprising to some people is how it plays.

because it doesn't matter what you play, if the audience can feel a hundred percent engagement from the musicians, really commitment. and i don't mean just playing the parts correctly and -- >> rose: come out perfectly. >> i mean life and death, completely empty your heart commitment. and if that can happen, then it's not that it doesn't matter what you play but anything will communicate. >> rose: but you found that when you got there? >> i think that's something that we've really, i'm very happy that the orchestra is more and more moving when they play. they love music. i mean they always have but it's a hard job. i grew up around the new york philharmonic. t i know how it was when they

came home. they were tired and they were very, they were never honestly, they were never bitching about work but it's a slog. it's a hard job. every week a different program. to have a kind of once in a lifetime inspiration and excitement in a week that is just one of three in a row. in a week that may also have another special program and another benefit this and outside and you have to take your kids to school. it is hard. it is a job. so to really get that kind of performance where it's just life and death and nothing else matters. it's not so easy. and i think the new york philharmonic also doesn't, is not helped in a way by the fact it's in a new york. because it's being compared implicitly maybe not even consciously against the other great orchestras of the world. the other orchestras that are maybe not quite as great in the world but playing at their very

very best. or a touring orchestra they do this work. they play the next program, come hell or high water are judged in the same standard -- >> rose: would you change any of this. >> i actually think there are tooit's a tricky question becaue there's a question of revenues and ticket sales. i think there's so many programsment i think the philharmonic plays too many in a season. >> rose: you said the musicians are -- >> i would like to see a schedule that is not as heavily packed for the new york philharmonic. they might kill me saying this in management because you need a certain amount of revenue and you have to play but it's difficult. it's not impossible to completely invest what you feel

a piece with your full energy if you've gone through too much music. >> rose: i've read a lot what you said and i'm quoting you a lot. you said outstanding musicians in today's orchestras are not only doing their job fully when they understand and invest in their expanded portfolios demanded by what an orchestra is. >> that's what i'm talking about. >> rose: invest in a new portfolio. >> yes. >> rose: to do that you have to lessen the load. >> practically speaking i think that's the only way. >> rose: does the music we know and love from the composers we know and love suffer at all from this? >> what>> rose: meaning playint as much focus or concentration because you want to make room for this. >> actually, that would be a complete misunderstanding where

i'm coming from. because the music that is part of the orchestra, bethoven symphonies, it's hard to imagine anything. that's what orchestras can and should be played. also to only play that music would be the death of it. even somebody who thinks i only want to hear bethoven all the time will have his or her appreciation of bethoven improved by having a context that is more connected to today. >> rose: is it a challenge for a great conductor today to make that case consistently because their demands to go by themselves, to go beyond. >> i don't think so. i actually think that the challenge is more on the other side. i think it's difficult to make the case that new music and music today has a rightful place

in the repertoire of orchestras. i think it's actually the other way around. i think that bethoven will be stronger if the composers of today are celebrated. people are expecting masterpieces every time we play a piece of music. there's a lot more to presenting new music than identifying masterpieces. part of the reason we play new music is to keep the field of composition alive and fresh. if you play one contemporary come poser's music, you are struggling with the act of composition which is the hardest and noble thing that most musicians does. >> rose: the quality you have today is. >> mixed. it has been throughout history.

we remember mozart symphonies. there are great pieces being reign today. we've had wonderful luck with our composers. >> rose: i'm asking you becausevt as a layman are those composers, you're saying they make because you recognize them, they make the work of all those from the past they gave it something they need. a more complete broader repertoire. >> absolutely. and it also creates a context in which it's possible to appreciate older masterpieces in a different way. i think reminding audiences today that composition as a process is very important because it's possible to think of these old iconic masterpieces somehow having always been there, has somehow they just hang out in space and they're just masterpieces. >> rose: so they are composers composing music today which is every bit as good as some of the business music that

has ever been composed. but it takes time to be recognized as that. >> i think there will be pieces today that will gain their rightful place in the cannon of masterpieces. i do think that appreciation of new music takes time. the right of spring was a famous failure when it was premier. now no one questions its place. >> rose: what changed? i think many masterpieces in4&j. i think anything that is great by definition is changing people's expectations. and since there's such a wonderful repertoire of masterpieces that's pleasant to listen to, it's possible to go for a long long time only

listening to those pieces. it's a challenge, a new language. the way music is today it's hard to listen a new music today. if you heard mozart's symphony in mozart's time it was mozart. you could start into it without any ramp up time. today you hear a piece that might be orchestra it may be forecrazy instruments in orchestra, it might be very rich and tonal. getting into new pieces is daunting and difficult sometimeñ i like to play things twice because the second you inevitably get more because you sort of accustomed your ear to the new language. almost by deaf anything that's great has an element of newness to it. newness is harder to approach now than ever before in music because of the wide range of styles and approaches that people have. it was never that way the last 50 years. >> rose: the musical

conductor and director of the new york philharmonic. you conduct around the world. you have a mission to see that music has an expanded role in touching the human condition and at the same time serving as a kind of kneeling ground at times of conflict and tragedy. you are conducting orchestral studies at julliard. what else did you want to do that you're not doing? >> sounds like a lot. >> rose: it does sound like a lot. do you want to compose? >> i've always thought i should try my hand at composing. i've done it now and then and it just doesn't turn out very well. >> rose: you don't think you have that gene. >> unfortunately not. i wish i could. it would be so nice to create something because that's the last thing that's meaningful. i haven't found it yet and it takes work.04 probably not together to happen. >> rose: is it something to

anguish over at all. >> anguish, no. >> rose: how would you characterize it? >> it's annoying kind of irritant in my side that makes me think mm-mm maybe i should try it. it's like you know the same thing that makes me think i should paint or write that book. >> rose: i would suggest an order is more likely you could write a book, secondly compose. >> yes. you can't do everything. >> rose: how does one, i think this is an interesting question. how does one fully test because so many people before they found their genius or their capacity to do something well, struggle struggle struggle. how do you know when you have done everything you can to find if you can do it. >> i've composed enough that i play something that's not that interesting. the standards i would hold for myself would be probably higher than i can achieve. i talked to my kids about that all the time. you have to persevere and you

have to struggle. you stick with it. but for the time being i'm trying to do my job at the philharmonic. i'm also playing the violin. i love to play the violin. that's the tactile sense of being in touch with sound is incredibly gratifying. and i wish i had more time for that. there must be things you wish -- >> rose: don'tn't start. here's what you said. musical quality, charisma and artistic magic are among the desirable qualities for a conductor. what is artistic magic? >> there was a period about 20 years ago when i was studying in school in which it was a strong sense that there was a right way to approach music. the early, the original

instrument movement, performance practice. there was a very dogmatichas kie reasonable approach. i actually think that you can learn a lot from the scholarly approaches to music making, phrasing, bowing, the right way to do it. but at the end of the day it doesn't really matter how you play something. it's the fact that you give it your full measure of sincerity. and you bring something fresh and magical to the equation. there's so many different ways to be a musician. there's so many different ways to be a conductor, so many different ways to approach any given piece. what i mean by artistic magic is something that is fresh and convincing whatever that means. it's different for each person. >> rose: people call that the

x factor in other lives. that's exactly what they call it. >> exactly what i'm talking about. >> rose: and musical quality is simply what musicians chip. >> there is a technique involved. a certain competence that one needs to achieve. it's great to have ideas but if you can't execute in a way that doesn't take away the focus from call it the artistic message you're not quite good enough. there is an absolute level we can talk about in terms of technical competence but-l beyod that it's about the x factor. >> rose: it's about the heart. >> absolutely, absolutely. >> rose: you said one mark of a great composer is how the sound is recognizable even through short snippets of music. you can listen to short snippets of music and know what it is with your ear. >> teaching at julliard is one

of my favorite thing to do. i love to work with students because sometimes you can get the most positive and the most enthusiastic energy from student musicians. i teach conducting. we've been doing repertoire, unusual repertoire -- the last piece he wrote. but strangely you hear one note of that and you think repertoire, oh, that's -- and the other piece one of the great composers, he was our composer winner our first one died a couple years ago. one of the great composers of certainly of the 20th century. you hear one measure of his music. that's good to you, to me that's already the measure of a great composer. >> rose: talking of sound can you take the same piece and hear it by five great orchestras in the world and tell me which

orchestra is playing. >> not necessarily because there are more ingredients in the mix, who is conducting,í;uar where ty are playing. >> rose: conducting changes to sound. >> yes. you'd be amazed. i think you'd probably be fascinated if you went to a conducting class in which three or four or five student conductors stand in front of the orchestra, same musicians in the orchestra, same repertoire. within one note of a new conductor standing on the podium, the sound is inkroobl changed. >> rose: explain that. >> it's uncanny. that's what conducting is.uii= it's really -- it's unexplainable because the conductor can have ditch weights. >> rose: in terms of its size and speed. >> and the intensity of the arm. >> rose: communicates directly to the musicians. >> yes.

and it's unavoidable. even if they said i'm not going to play differently i'm going to play it exactly the same way for every conductor even if they tried as hard as they could, they couldn't do it. if you go like this you make a certain kind of sound or if you go like this. the constitution of your hand and everybody's different. there's a different kind of also emotional space. >> rose: is it also different in terms of you can see, in terms of you being assumed that you're doing the same thing you think in your mind conducting a piece. and the orchestra's the same piece, same orchestra same conductor but it will be different on one night than it is on another night. >> absolutely it changes every w york philharmonic i'mith the circling back around to pieces. you know, i did bethoven 7th in my first year and nowwli did it again this year. i try not to repeat pieces too often bun when we did bethoven 7th it sounded completely different. without consciously thinking i'm

going to change my approach to bay torture 7th, i did. another thing in terms of the scientific approach to this question, if you do the same piece, sometimes it happens. i'll do a piece, the very next week i'll do it with another orchestra. the interpretation changes because what the musicians brings creates a different chemistry. so even if i'm essentially bringing the same approach and the same attitude. we talked about it as being a river. always the same river, always different. >> rose: i saw the other day in print in the "new york times" in the last ten days a recognition of the fact that leonard bernstein, whatever he did for young people, those concerts he did for young people explaining music, you can get all of that on youtube. do we need more of that to somehow heighten the experience and the appetite for classical music? >> i think that at the end of

the day the long story of building up audiences over extended period of time is the time frame that we're going to have to be talking about. getting them when they're young. >> rose: yes, exactly. who is the motivatorhñ to do th. >> we're all trying. you know, in different ways to different degrees. one of the questions that i'm very concerned by and interested in is the question of minorities participation in classical music. there are very few black musicians in orchestras. we see not so many black people in the audience. >> rose: let me ask you. >> it's not representative of our society. >> rose: is it because people like you have not paid as much attention to it, have not viewed it with the same urgency that it would need. >> i think that's probably part of it. i think that it's a question, it's a cultural question of

what's important and what's interesting. building up audiencuright now, e where something has to break into the cycle. if you go to a concert hall and, you know, we talk about minorities. there's not a lack of minority representation when it comes to asians. lots of chinese musicians, lots of japanese musicians, lots of korean musicians. if you go to a concert hall you see that. you think okay that's something i can connect to. but in terms on the superficial level there are not many black musicians. there's something we talk about a lot but again you're going to have to look at a long time frame. we're doing what we can.if you e famous program, now and only now you're starting to see musicians in the orchestras around the

world who are products of that system in venezuela. there are actually musicians base players and your popular orchestras. >> rose: they do something in venezuela at the time they're not doing in the u.s. today. >> absolutely. it was a wide, it was a very wide, thousands and thousands of participants but it's taken 20 years for these musicians to end up in orchestras around the world but they're there. it shows that if you're patient and if you are dedicated and are willing to plant the seed and not see the first sprout for some years and finally okay it's growing there under the ground and will start to grow. but something we should be thinking about and that's the next frontier for us i think. and a lot of people are talking about it and hopefully more and more people will do something about it. >> rose: what do you think of

mozart in the jungle. >> we kind of look at the music world, some we recognize and some of us thought mm-mm, after seeing that, now it's striking a chord and i'm happy that it's doing so well. >> rose: it's around the world. >> i know people love it. and it's somehow a very real situation. orchestras are, can function as a microcosm of the society. it's a very specific limited field in a way but the interactions are human and i think a lot of people go with it. >> rose: i'm going to call this. take a look at this. this is bethoven's symphony

number 7, september 20. tell us what you think and saw when you conducted this music. here it is. ♪ >> still a great piece. >> rose: it was at the -- >> there's a reason why these pieces are forever. the last piece i conducted in concert, i was in tokyo last week and as many times as you do a piece like bethoven's 7th, you find things that sound so trite in a way but it never feels old.

i did a project with our artisan association in london. we're not completely finished with it but we're recording all the bethoven concertos together. and we spent an intense weak four out of the five, we will eventually do the triple and maybe even a piano version. sorry this is not a shameless plug but to talk about pay bethoven, to spend that many hours in a week with one composer is almost unimaginable except with someone like bethoven. we've all done those pieces dozens of times. we know how they go and we think okay we somehow mastered the meese. but never. it always feeds you and you always feel that if you don't give a hundred percent you're not going to be adequate. you hear a piece that you know

and love, it can move you in such an incredibly powerful way every time even if it's the same bethoven 7th symphony. i mentioned earlier to do bethoven 7th in that time period and bringing it close to my time it looks different to me. the way i interact with the orchestra, there's a lot of trust and somehow we've lived through something together. you asked me how i felt. i felt quite moved in a way to see this becausepjqit's really . we try to give sincere and committed performances of everything we do. and we're lucky to be able to touch this great music. >> rose: here's my best career advice for you. >> let me get my pen. >> rose: it is finally don't worry about composing or not composing. should always try to do things which look difficult and

challenging like climbing mt. everest but to take advantage of all the tools we have today. i'm thinking about making a film or i'm thinking about the capacity to talk and explain and communicate music as you did in that speech is a magical gift too. the ability to communicate about music as well as communicate with music is a rare and important quality. you should make damn sure that you engage and employ and do all that you can with that. you can go a long way with that advice. >> that's important to hear. i must say, i'm allowing myself to step outside of myself in a way and consciously or even self consciously think about what i want to do with the gifts that

i've been given. >> rose: and you're very young. >> iin the end. it's been a great run and i'm happy that there are a lot of people who are seemingly intero take the same journey. >> rose: thank you. >> thank you charlie. >> rose: alan gilbert for the hour. thank you for joining us. see you next time. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

>> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and of multimedia news and information services worldwide.

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