>> rose: welcome to the program. tonight, germany's role in the world. we talk to ursula von der leyen, germany's minister of defense. >> we'll never forget what you did right after world war ii when you not only came with the marshall plan to stretch out your hand to take us back into the democratic countries, they did something which germany will never ever forget. ad we stand together for the[8sf democracy, of the right to have, you know, free speech, free press all these values common ground together. we are talking about it in the world. we really have to stick together because there's a lot of work

out there to tackle. >> rose: we conclude this evening with the continuation of our conversation of jony ive of apple about design. what does properfection mean to you. >> perfection to me establishes and describes a goal. it's something that long ago i resigned myself i will try and get closer and closer. but it's still's not too far away. >> rose: it's a bridge too far. >> it really is. it's one of those things, though, of perfection, it shapes you and it configures you and the establishes the things that you think are important. it's infuriates you when you think you're getting closer. >> rose: ursula von der leyen and jony ive when we continue.

>> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications is here. she is a defense minister for germany. she's in washington for important talks with american authorities. i'm pleased to have her on this program to talk not only about germany's role around the world but also the critical issues facing relationships with the united states, the european union, russia, iran and other countries. so i begin with this question, though. you entered politics in 2010. you're a doctor, gwen

psychologist, your husbands was a professional medicine, you have seven children who spent time in america. and in 15 years you are defense minister and people talk about you as a possible chancellor if an merkel steps down. how did you do it. >> good question. >> well, angela merkel gave me first appoint for family affairs. she gave me a lot of trust in advance that i'm going to manage this and that worked the way to enter politics. my father was a politician too. and i always had impression of fixing something where you can really change things which i still think is true and i came with a lot of enthusiasm.

a boss that trusts you and gives you a lot of responsibilities. >> rose: germany is either reassessing or being asked to ballet a more forceful role around the world. >> this is true. because out of our history for quite a long time was very habitant to get involved after the crises scenarios. but germany turned to be a relevant and economically strong country and i think it's necessary to take responsibility on those fields that are not the nice ones but difficult ones where conflict and crises and war occurs. and we have benefited over many

decades from our allies in nato who protected us. so it's kind of time to pay back. >> rose: tell me about your conversations here in america. you just came from meeting with ash carter, the secretary of defense, susan rice, the national security advisor. can you tell me what questions are being raised? >> well first of all both of them were very interested in what's going on in europe and the refugee crises. as you might know, yesterday was very important summit of the european government concerning the refugee crises. and they focused on how to tackle the problem of illegal migration triggered by smugglers and traffickers. mainly in the agency that is the area between turkey and greece. and yesterday, there was two things that happened. first of all, nato started an

activity on the agency to dismantel the patterns of the smugglers and the coast off turkey and greece so that we can stop them from pursuing their horrible business. >> rose: in respect to angela merkel, does she see how much germany can do, how many refugees germany can take. >> we took approximately one million last year. and you know, if you define asylum as the duty to give shelter or to protect people who are politically persecuted and who come from a war country. this is fine because the high value to do that. but of course we see a lot of migrants coming out of economic

reasons and those migrants cannot ask for asylum, they cannot stay in europe, they have to be sent back. so we have to work on a concept on the larger concept that looks at the asylum seekers that are genuine asylum seekers, send back those who are economic migrants coming. we have to make sure that we make, if we want in europe, you know borders between the states, we need to secure our external borders. that's a fact for example, and of course we have to care for the wounded for people having to flee their homeland. like isil. care for the refugees and refugee camps close to their home land for example, turkey,

lebanon children so they can stay close to the homeland. you see what i'm telling you. it's a complex story and wedecie who really need asylum because the top but clear for them. >> rose: to pay a political price. >> let's a lot of skepticism in germany whether this will work. at the beginning people were on one hand overwhelmingly helpful concerning the refugees. but on the other hand worried how many of them are going to come. now step boy -- step by step as the population are seeing we are trying to fill these domestic problems with immigration, trying to work on the external border of europe, working with

turkey to reduce the flow of migrants and fighting isil with others in the coalition against terror, that there is a difficult but a path that is worth to go. because it's -- >> rose: also led to the rise of parties in europe. are they on the increase including germany. >> to a certain extent, yes. because there's a lot of skepticism and people fear that too many things might change in their countries in germany now. our responsibility is as politicians to be convincing and stick to the concept we want to develop which is in my eyes the

right concept. so to convince people all the time that we will solve the problems. at the moment there's still a lot of skepticism and a lot of fuel. >> rose: ceurope? >> over time if we do it well, if we manage this crises, it will change europe for the better. because it will add another experience that even if there are huge problems if we're able to solve this problem, 500 europeans could solve that problem than any stingal state can do. >> rose: talking about isis. we're talking iraq and syria as well. there's much talk in iraq about an attackmosul.

is that imminent. >> it is on the awe -- agenda and proved to be the right on iraq which is train local forces. they have an interest to gain back that territory from isil. support them not only by information but also air strikes and reconnaissance. we worked in kurdistan we worked withwork here to. it will not only be a military fight but after having taken mosul we invest a lotx÷ of construction and so that potential piece will be sustainable in the area. isil destroyed not only a lot of

territory and killed people in a brutal way, but they also destroyed the ability to live peacefully together between shi'a and kurds and we have to reestablish that. >> rose: you have germany playing what role. >> germany for almost two years now is supporting the kurds with arms and with training. and these were able to give enough strength and courage and equipment and training that they not only stop isil, we're able to protect 1.5 million refugees. that's a lot in the refugee camps in kurdistan too, but also they were able to defeat isil and to fight back isil and to

regain territory which is enormously importantdestroyed tf invincibility of isil. >> rose: that image is gone. we lost territory and the taliban has diminished meaning visibility is gone. >> yes. this is to prove that you can fight back isil. >> rose: makes it much more difficult for isil. >> exactly because this open vincibility at the very beginning was attractive. >> rose: who else will participate? germany will provide arms and supplies. united states will provide some special forces on the ground and air from american military. are there others involved. >> there are many other countries in the so-called coalition again. >> rose: all involved in retaking mosul including the -- >> not all of them involved in

mosul but the coalitionterror cn iraq and syria. there are more than 60 countries involved in all different tasks that are necessary. for example the emirates are involved with germany in the top of reconstruction of cities like ramadi that have been taken back from isil just to name the top. >> rose: we find incredible carnage and brutality in places with the isil government in control. >> it is a disaster what is left over. not only a wounded soul and destroyed neighborhoods but also a lot of mines. so we have not only to reestablish a population and piece it together but also do a lot of counter, clean up the

cities, reconstruct and all that. >> rose: is part of theeffort against themy going to be shi'a militia. >> i think shi'a is involved within the troops of the central government of iraq. >> rose: how about militia, though, separate from the central government. >> well this is divisional central government. >> rose: how about iranians? >> well, in iraq, without any doubt iran is playing a role too. >> rose: what role are they playing. >> they are playing the role that they will support the shi'a as the sunni are supported by us, for example. but we tried not to divide this country between sunni and shi'a but to stick together. what we are telling the kurds is we expect them to stick to the central government as well as we

tell central government that we expect them to keep sunni and shi'a together. that's the condition to be supported by the coalition. >> rose: what's the plan for syria. you have hostilities, it's not working as far as you know. >> it is working. 10 to 11 or 12 days by now a short period which gives us hope. but we should knock on wood the same as it is. syria is distant from iraq because you can see what happens in those who are supposed to fight isil have immunity in the approach how to fight isil. what we saw is that russia had together with the regime different interests not only to fight isil but also to fight the

support positions that we support. >> rose: the united states and the coalition. >> we" as the coalition against. not talking of germany but talking about the coalition against terror. we've seen them saw that the turks were not only fighting isil but also having conflicts with the kurds, the syrian curred. kurds. the lack of unity of those who were opposed isil gave strength to isil. this has to be stopped and seems to be over since we have the syrian talks. now we're at a point where all of us agreed to have a cease-fire between those different groups. and accept isil and to focus on the fight against isil together. and of course within the syrian peace talks is the human adding

to the calculation suffering to bring human government aid. it has begun. at the moment when there's hope that we will turn to a better time what assembly forces to fight isil are concerned, and finding a solution how we could see the future of peaceful future, that is a transformation time towards a time past. >> rose: is nato involved. >> not at the moment >> it is not involved. >> rose: would you like to see it involved. >> many of those countries who are nato members are involved already. >> rose: i know what you're

saying. >> it's never good to speculatebefore t want to speculate at all. >> rose: would you say they play a positive role in syria. >> at the beginning they played a very very difficult role. >> rose: because of the assad regime. >> yes. they support the assad regime they looked to support isil but the it went to the opposition of civilians. it's atrocious to see that. at one time they were bombing where they were pretending to table negotiations, that had to be stopped. it stopped now. >> rose: it stopped now. >> it stopped now. >> rose: they're no longer bombing the forces that the coalition supports. moderate rebel forces are under attack from russia. >> there are difficulties but if

you look at those processes for such a complex process over the last few days it's going in the right direction. >> rose: angela merkel and -- have a relationship. it's a difficult but she's been very talkative and he considers to have a relationship with germany he has a certain kinship with germany because he curved there in the kgb, he speaks germany and they talk in german. >> and she speaks russian. >> rose: what does she understand about him? >> well, she does not under estimate him. does not under estimate. >> rose: does not. >> no, not at all. she knows he doesúwell calculat.

that you have to take very serious the way he sees the world which is different from the way you see the world. >> rose: how does he see it. >> well, he said that biggest catastrophe in the last century was the breaking up of the soviet union. i don't think this is our perception. so for example. >> rose: but he also sees the world in terms of his borders and worries about it because part of the russian history, the invasion from outside so they have a key sense of being able to protect their borders. which is the reason that he worried about the enroachment of nato. >> what we build up is the architecture of that is respectful of the sovereignty of each country. and countries that are at the borders of russia or europe have

the right to decide how, with whom they want to trade, with whom they want to associate. so the sovereignty of a country to decide how to live is somethingje9y which is very pres and within the international law, it's a right that has to be protected, that has to be clear for us in nato. it has to be cleared for russia too. so if you look at the ukraine for example, the ukraines have a right to decide how it wants to position itself. >> but is russia allowing them to do that because of the activities on the border and near ukraine. >> what we seen almost two years ago now that russia does not allow that ukraine.$we saw a hyn ukraine triggered by russia, we saw the annexation which is

unbearable. so that was a very very conflict, very difficult situation when russia did this kind of hybrid warfare which is kind of not open. in fact disguised. there was;rip a lot of propagana lot of cyber activity, a lot of activity on social media but had the arms and weapons. >> rose: shot down. >> exactly. i think one smart and wise decision was not to answer in the same way that russia was acting in the eastern european an extremely dangerous situation over there. but to answer to russia in a way that we said listen, if you do

not abide, we answer in a way where you are the most vulnerable and there is your economic side. of course industrial too. this puts a lot of pressure on russia that has weak economy, shrinking economy at the moment. so that we were able -- >> rose: at the height of those sanctions because of ukraine, president putin moved into syria. and some say have changed the dynamics and has put russia at the center of the conversation about the future of syria. russia's relevance as important as it has ever been and inaction by the west allowed him to do[ that. >> at the beginning ukraine before russia moved to syria, there was the new agreement made. so we got into a process also supported by the sanction and

the economic pressure on russia. that russia wanted to find a solution. and ukraine agreed to the new process. which is slow work in process but there is a diplomatic process now and they accept both sides have to fulfill. you are right that russia turned to syria and that russia put itself back into the game. that has to be admitted. but we are aware of the fact that we, we is the coalition against terror, all of us, will not find a solution for syria without russia. it is better to sit down at the table now and to work on the process in syria. >> rose: what do they want,

russia. >> what they want. well they wanted to keep their bases in syria which i think is important for them. they wanted that the assad regime will not fail, which they were successful in supporting or reestablishing the assad regime because the assad regime was about to fail. >> rose: it would have failed if they hadn't come in. >> it would have failed that's true. so this is a fact. but a fact that russia is talking about the possibility that over time long term there is a future without assad because ofy5 both sides. i think it's wise not to aim that destroying destruction in syria because we've seen too

many failing states, governmental fractures so it's wise to keep an eye on governmental structures not to be clear over time a long term future for syria cannot be with assad. >> rose: there's a need for some kind of structure there. the structure of the government would be gained by isis and libya. tell me what germany want to do not only in libya but in africa in terms of using its own capabilities. libya, central africa. >> one sentence can make one thing clear. germany is never acting on its own. it's always acting with partners and aliances. be it nato or be it the european union. this is somethingol3 which is absolutely clear out of our history but these indeed are alliances. for example they now

substantially the number we sent down to an important country. we worried about an increasing presence of isil in libya. therefore, at the moment we were working with others on establishing a full nation element in tunisia which is a neighbor of libya so that potentially the formation training between libyan soldiers. without an existing government in libya, we still have to wait for processcompeting parts of te government. forming the government of unity to invite the international community to help. this should be the way we go. >> rose: has the united states, better yet has germany

put aside and passed the ideal that came out of the snowden revelations that your chancellor had been spied on. >> whether we put aside. >> rose: yes. in other words has the relationship gotten past that or do you still have great anger, reservation. >> well of course there was anger back. >> rose: but. >> we know how important our american friends are for us. and we know there are many many fields we work together. >> rose: you don't forget. >> on one one side things are t okay. we are good friends but you still know the foundation the basis is so good between friends that you work past that. >> rose: so you worked past

that. >> absolutely. >> rose: and you should not to have it now. >> for us it's important to have our american friends at our side. we'll never forget what you did right after 4ok' war ii when you not only came with the marshall plan to germany but you stretched out your hand to take us back into the democratic countries. this is something which germany will never ever forget. and we stand together for the same values of freedom, of democracy, of the right to have, you know, speech, freesr suppre, all these values come around with altogether. they are all talking about it in the world. we really have to stick together because there's a lot of work out there to tackle. >> rose: there's'ñ also this and you just made a true statement how important it is the relationship between germany and the united states. and it is clear on the american

side that chancellor merkel is someone that president obama trusts, respects and values her judgment. i have read a number of stories and am aware of a number of stories in which he wanted to know where she stood before he made his decision to go or not go. you are aware obviously of that. there's this respect between the two leaders as well. having said that, is there some sense that america through your eyes and her eyes is pulling back from its international commitments? is pulling back from a world of too many wars in too many places. >> well, america's leadership is needed. and we are grateful of a lot of

leadership america is showing in different places in the world. and to be honest, sometimes i think a few years ago there was a lot of criticism what america's concern because they were kind of leading right away. >> rose: back in the bush administration. >> not discussing too much with the allies. >> rose: there was not enough in the past. >> in the past. and therefore i think before europe started to criticize united states, you should think about what we criticized a few years ago. so to find the right balance is always the important thing is all of us are willing to take on the responsibility that we can carry and that we analyze together that we decide together and that we act on together. not just working on the coalition against terror and

syria. >> rose: is that mentioned here during our conversation on this program earlier. and you said to me the united states is really now all in with respect to what it can do to defeat isis. they understand the challenge and there is a renewed effort. is there a fair r what you see and hear when you're in washington. >> absolutely. i can confirm that. for example i see how much now the united states invests again in nato, in europe. so there is a lot we can do together. what i think also is europe always has to think about what is our share that we have to carry and that we have to put in the common context. >> rose: speaking to that your share, are the german people behind in terms of budget

and given the authority to do what the german leadership is necessary to play a greater role in world affairs. >> there is over the last two years you can see the polls of growing awareness it is necessary. people do not like these conflicts. that is understandable. but they accept by now that the situation is serious and if we want to have relevance in political and economic terms we have to take over responsibility. this is accepted. and you see that in the polls too that for example the appreciation of the force is rising because people see what we have to do, whether we like it or not. this is the answer to globalization. and 20 or 30 years ago we would

never have thought about syria about a country but so far globalization brings many opportunities but also brings us responsibilities to care for our neighborhood and our neighborhood now is syria. >> rose: a personal question. you are a remarkable representation of someone who has done so much as a doctor, as a wife, as a politician, as a minister of government, as a mother of seven children. it is to say, i assume, that women can have it all and do it all and then have to play eauz same kind of role that women are playing in terms of full sharing of the responsibilities of family. is that what you've learned, is that what your life is attesting to. >> oh, yes, definitely. i stand for that. my husband and me, we moved in

92. >> rose: he was a professor. >> at that time he was a medical doctor not a profession. he was a young medical doctor. we came with three children and i came out of an environment in germany that was very much not at all supporting what international work in family is concerned. there is a lot of support of child care there was the expectation that mothers and fathers take time with the children are concerned. and they put a lot of emphasis that the father plays a role. i never forgot that how much strength it gave us as a family young family when we moved back we had the five children so we have two american citizens. >> rose: two american citizens. >> yes. when i was in germany, i turned into the family policy i did. and what is necessary for

society in high industrialized country is that you need young man or young woman, if they are educated and if they want to earn a living which is great for the country. and if they want to waste children the best thing the government can do is support them with infrastructure which is child care and good food. but they put a lot of emphasis on the father's role because what my husband and mecthat if e the children and know what the job is like, you have a broader approach for the children the responsibility where both parents are concerned. a father's always a father. he's never ever a mother and the same goes for the mother. on the other hand you have a lot more security if both are able to earn a living.

and with that you got a lot more of perfection and security and mutual ways to raise children. >> rose: do you want to be chancellor. >> we have a wonderful chancellor. >> rose: each generation has its chance but the question always has to do with the next generation. >> she's a great chancellor. >> rose: she is. my question is a simple one. do you want to be chancellor. >> i don't have an answer to that question. >> rose: thank you for coming. >> you did that. >> rose: thank you for coming. it was a pleasure. i know there's a certain attention for america. >> thank you. >> rose: back in a moment. we'll talk to jony ive. about design. stay with us. from the defense minister of germany to the chief design

officer of apple, we talked to jony ive asking the question what makes apple and what role design plays in the company's identity, its products and its future. we just saw product that's been years in the making, products being refined, products being made better. they came off of the table at some point in iút don't remember design studio and you work and you shape and you modify and you agonize. and all of a sudden, there's a day like today where it's no longer disloyal if like a bird you've been holding and you let

it fly away. >> perhaps getting easier. but it's a fairly shocking process when you've been working on something quietly, not sure whether it's going to work out or not. you have tremendous dreams for it and a deep enthusiasm but you're working quietly and it's very much beyond. but it's absolutely yours and there's only a few of you that know that. then you get to this remarkably and rude and very abrupt in tie where suddenly it goes from a few people to hundreds of thousands of people at exactly the same time l about this.and that's shockinf course it's nerve racking because -- there's an odd

contradiction here. trying to do something new and there's a list of reasons why this won't work, there has to be a part of you that's unreasonable and resolute. and so i mean, without that sort of character attribute, you'd give up atzu the first obstacle. and so you're resolute and believe this can be done. but at the same time you're very concerned, is it going to be useful and is it going to improve people's lives. >> rose: is that what it is, whether they will see it as something that makes -- >> absolutely. >> rose: to communicate with others or whether it is to monitor their own life. >> it can be the smallest thing that you see somebody using a

product that you've worked on. >> rose: what's that like. >> and you think that was really worth it. because this costs materials. you make the decision that has huge takes a lot of time and being that focused and that resolute and deciding to ignore. very very smart people who have seven reasons why this is an ill conceived idea and probably won't work, to ignore really smart people i find personally very hurtful. and so with that sort of focus, when you then see somebody using it and you're seeing across the room and somebody smiles, that makes a difference. while we can't second guess people, you have to reference your several while you're

developing it. we're very clear that the goal of it is to make products for our customers. that's why we're doing this. and it's our customers don't like the product. and then i see that we failed. >> rose: you once said i think that people don't understand how$yçñr practical . >> i think one of the things i think characterizes the design process and i think many creative processes is that there's this wonderful flipping between broad philosophical discussions and okay that's go and try to make this. doesn't matter how much more, we can talk about this for another week. let's actually make it and see what happens. and so i think, and i think that's partly because we are both hard learners and we know that builting prototypes and

trying to represent or experience something that we're working on is unbelievably important. but i think we are practical. the design studio has a big studio where we can sit and draw. it also has a very big workshop. >> rose: do you create pressure for yourself because you know there's an iphone and you feel incumbent to make it!. better. >> i think people deserve developing something that's truly better. i know there are many products out there that really are, they're just different. and there's a danger designers because so much of what you're doing you're living in the future. and you are by definition creating something that doesn't exist yet, as in it's new. but the important thing to remember is that there isn't an

inherent value in you. i mean you and i could go and figure out something in half an hour that will be a new product. that would mean that it has any value and anybody would be interested in it but there's a danger, there are lots of products that surround us whose only virtue, some don't believe it's a virtue is that they are new. what's really hard is to try and do something that's better. and we try hard to resist that temptation when we're developing a product or refining a product at the end of the day you could say well really it's just different or it's just new. and because there is what appears to be sometimes an insatiable appetite for the new, other people can take care of that. >> rose: what does perfection

mean to you. >> perfection means to me something that describes the goal. long ago i resigned myself i will try to get closer and closer but it's still that hill is too far away. but it's -- >> rose: a bridge too far. >> it really is. it's one of those things, though, that perfection shapes you and it configures you and it establishes the things that you think are important. it infewer united states you when you think you're getting closer. and you realize that you're not. but i think there are many of us that are driven by trying to make something look perfect. somehow something perfect to me

is more than that there's nothing wrong. i think we want to be more ambitious in making something that isn't wrong. butmekou)ñ it drives us. >> rose: i wonder if we'll even know perfection. >> i don't know. sometimes i think we get the faintest glimpse of an attribute that you think i don't know how that could be better. and then this is the problem with learning, isn't it. the problem with learning more and the problem with being inquisitive and wanting to explore is that your views, your view of the world is constantly changing. >> rose: do you look at the

item and say that's as good as it can be. i if you there's nothing i can do to make it better. i mean later but i don't now. >> i think right now we look at these products and we do see things immediately we want to make better. but we clearly stand together s an extended group and this is as good asreally tried. we really really tried. >> rose: it's hard for you to release it if you know you're not there to say i don't know how to get from here to there but i know that everything i know to do has gotten here and there's nothing i know to get. i'd like to be somewhere beyond i don't know how to get there. and therefore i'm going to -- >> we have in the past i'm sure

we will in the future decide that, i mean there is a threshold that we have to make. and we have and we will decide you know, like sometimes when i catch myself talking a bit too loud i realize i'm trying to convince myself. we know that it's not good enough. and this is some of the things that i just feel so grateful to be part of that because if our goal is to make money, i couldn't entertain things like that. it would have to be whether they're scheduled to be made and we have to ship there. fortunately that's not our goal. >> rose: you have deadlines don't you. >> we havekí dead lines but we

also have a sense of pursuit for excellence. when we don't meet that, we will delay the product. >> rose: can you say that you stayed at apple and a you had this phenomenal relationship with steve jobs and other colleagues. but that somehow you knew that this place here, that this culture here was different. >> absolutely. >> rose: and that the imperative could create something was driven by something different. i'm saying this to a person who is part of a creation of a product that has made you, this company, the most valuable company in the world and lots of people very rich because you created a product everybody

never had or what anybody could ever image. >> there's business to this, there's commerce to this. there is a desire for everybody to feel, love, buy. we're very clear about the hierarchy. and so we've been very clear that we expect those concerns to be consequences of not doing our job right. our job isn't to make money for apple. our job is to try and make the very best products that we can. now we trust to say how good and we trust if we're competent or we do our jobs in trying to describe them. and if we're competent in making them, they will be attractive. they will be bought in volume and we will eventually make money. now i'm aware of course that can

sound incredibly simplistic. i'm aware that can sound like an easy to say given our vantage pointed right now. but that's actually what we said in 98 when the company was struggling. you see we didn't say that the goal was turn around because if we had set the goal back in the late 90's we'd turn the company around, that's all about money. you can turn a company around but spending less and trying to make a bit more money, what we said back in the 90's was the goal was to stop making products that weren't great. and the goal was to focus on trying to make a great consumer product. >> rose: that happened when steve jobs came back. >> when he came back that's how he articulated what the goal would be.

this wasn't an exercise into the clever workszu of things, this s describing profoundly different attitudes and approaches to what the problem was at hand. it fakes a tremendous courage when you're losing fabulously large amounts of money to say our goal isn't turn around, our goal is to make a great product. that's sort of a natural reflex to that situation. the reflex is well let's not spend this money let's try to get a little bit more. >> rose: save the company. >> i think that one of the things that we've worked hard on is the way we describe the problem and this is where i think language is so interesting because these ideas generally start as there's a thought. but if you come quite quickly words and discussions and arguments, even if they were

yourself, it's very easy to make i think dramatic assumptions that if you make these assupnq%=9m and they are often language base, it's easy to make those and then miss huge opportunity. and so i think this was something that was very thoughtful about and very, there was a lost for intention behind the words to use. it wasn't like this, it was exactly these words to describe exactly this goal. and there's a whole other difference between this goal and the rather sloppy way perhaps that we would -- >> rose: did you know him before he came to take over the company. >> i never met him. that was what was so curious to me. because to see this product and reaction to who made this not what does it do.

who made this. where did they do. in california. and so i saw an!)úó immediate se of what he thought was important. and i think that was one of the reasons when we first met we clicked in the way we did. >> rose: more of this problem and other episodes visit us at pbs.org and charlierose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

protecting pay outs. chevron increases dividends for the 28th straight year while other energy companies slash they're theirs. >> hunt from yields. where you can find income now without taking on a lot of risks. from first to worst. unhappy shareholders are fed up with unite's poor performance and they're pushing for a shake up. all that and more on "nightly business report" for tuesday, march 8th. >> good evening. welcome. the dow and the s&p 500 snap their five-day win streaks. more on that in a moment. we begin with