>> rose: welcome to the program. i'm charlie rose. the program is "charlie rose: the week." just ahead, surprising turns in the 2016 campaign. a revealing look at the "the obama doctrine," and diplo brings his electronic dance music to cuba. >> it's important to play places like this where the music is brand new. these are the guys who are going to change it, the ones who are going to bring it to a new level. >> rose: we will have those stories and more on what happened and what might happen. >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications

>> rose: and so you began how? >> protect people. >> rose: is it luck at all or is it something else? >> we need to take a fresh look at that. gnificance of the moment.t >> rose: this was the week coalition airstrikes targeted isis chemical weapons stockpiles. bernie sanders pulled off a surprising win in the michigan presidential primary, and tennis star maria sharapova revealed she had failed a drug test at the australian open. here are the sights and sounds of the past seven days. nancy reaganidize at 94. >> it was an authentic love story. >> oh, complete, total. you see it on cam camera and it was real. >> rose: george martin dies at 90. >> the great thing about getting old is that everybody does it, if they're lucky. >> u.s. forces in iraq have captured an isis chemical

engineer who was producing mustard gas. >> rose: president obama hosts and toasted canada's first couple. >> canada's new prime minister justin prudough will visit the white house. >> >> the first canadian leader in nearly 20 years to be the honored guest. >> trump sweeps in sanders upsets clinton in michigan. >> and i'm talking about a huge voter turnout. >> bernie sanders stunned the prognosticators by taking michigan. hillary clinton took it graciously. here's her official statement after the results came in. >> what's happening! ( cheers and applause ) ♪ take it easy >> rose: pate an onmanning retires. >> he played the game with passion and went out in style. >> there's something about 18 years, 18 is a good number. ♪ ♪ >> electronic music group lead by producer diplo played for a big crowd in havana. >> it's preserved in time.

>> rose: it's like a time caps ul ♪ is it too late now to say sorry ♪ >> reporter: maria sharapova failed a drug test. >> it became a prohibited substance, which i had not known. >> rose: we begin the week with the 2016 elects. tuesday marks the next round of big primarys. that includes florida, missouri, north carolina, and ohio. republican marco rubio and john kasich are hoping wins in their home states will keep them viable. meanwhile, democrat bernie sanders will be looking to repeat his stunning upset of hillary clinton in this week's michigan primary. president obama is in austin, texas, for the south by southwest festival. and so is mike allen, politico's chief white house correspondent. also joining us bob costa from the "washington post" from

boynton beach, florida. bob, tell me what you thought of the debate and what you think of how far close donald trump is to wrapping up this nomination? >> the debate was a subdued performance from the republican front-runner. trump did not have his usual bravado. in fact, it was a performance from all the candidates on stage that was policy centered. and there's a sense that ahead of these major march 15 primaries, especially in ohio and florida, everything's on the line. >> rose: does he expect to win in ohio? >> it's up for grabs, ohio. ohio governor kasich is doing very well there. he has an operation there that's surpassed trump on the ground. but trump has a lot of early vote support, based on my reporting. he also has a lot of this populist appeal. and this is a rust belt state. trump has done well there in the primaries so far. his message, especially on trade, is connecting. we saw trump's victory in michigan.

i think forshadowed perhaps what could happen in ohio. >> rose: how cowy see this right now, mike, because of the things bob just reminded us, plus the endorsement today of dr. ben carson for crump? how close is he to locking it up. >> the ultimate odd couple there with that endorsement. charlie, i know bob is hearing the same thing, and that is that the other campaigns think that trump could well win both ohio and florida, and politico did the math, and if trump wins ohio and florida, he then is on path to a mathematical clinch. if trump goes ahead and sweeps on tuesday, if he gets ohio and florida, he's on path to have 100 delegates to spare, to be around the 1350 neighborhood. now, he still has to keep winning. he has to win about 54% of the delegates that are left, but if you get that kind of a result on tuesday, ted cruz, who we keep talking about as the most plausible alternative, he would have to win 70% of all the

delegates that are left. so suddenly, math is very much on trump's side. >> rose: all the republican establishment wants to do now, bob, is simply lead to an open convention, isn't it? they just want to to deny trump. they don't have a strategy that they can come together behind one candidate, cothey? >> i think there's a divide within the republican establishment. some certainly within that circle would like to deny trump the nomination, but others now, seeing the math mike has laid out, understand trump could be the nominee and they're warming to him both publicly and behind the scenes. >> rose: are you hearing, that mike? >> yeah, charlie, there are so many republicans, including people who are the epitome of the establishment saying, "we ey're even saying, "trumprump. could push really goose turnout, which could help republicans down ballot," the first time we've heard people saying that.

until now they've been saying they'd run away from him. so now they're facing up to reality. >> rose: after more than seven years in office, perhaps the most controversial piece of president obama's legacy is in foreign policy, is his reluctance to use large-scale military power a sign of weakness or wisdom? jeffrey goldberg of "the atlantic "has spent hours interviewing the president, his allies and critics and presents a nuanced view. his cover story this month is titled, "the obama doctrine: how he shaped the world." did you find him different. >> yeah, yeah. i think-- i mean, i've been interacting with him from time to time for the last i guess eight or 10 years, even when he was in the senate, and i think, yeah, this president, at the end

of his presidency, has a more tragic view of certain issues than he did at the beginning, the arab world, most particularly, the middle east. >> rose: and the limitations of american power there. >> he was always sensitive to the limitations of american power. he is a retrenchment president. he was following george w. bush who, one could argue, over-extended. so obama was always in the category of people who were thinking about limitations. but i would say that he was-- when it comes to certain issues and certain problems he's not hope and change, right. he's moved into a more fatalistic pose. he goes back to this, i can pay attention to things that ultimately matter to america or i can pay attention to things that i deem to be of less consequence to america. i can't do everything. >> rose: the critical question is a red line early on in syria. >> right. >> rose: he still-- he still defends that nondecision. >> no, it's not that he defends it. it's that he's proud of it. >> rose: exactly. >> that was one of the

interesting moments for me. when we talked about that. because i saw that as a hinge moment. i think he sees it as a hinge moment his presidency. >> rose: it's also a hinge moment in appraisal of him, too. >> he sees that, too, and people look at that as a kind of a moment when he flinched. and he argues, you know-- he argues that it's a proud moment because he didn't follow what he calls the washington playbook-- country "x" does something, america has to do something other than advised. >> rose: he was sales ared not to use the term "red line." >> the problem was not 2013 when we walked up to the line and he didn't do the thing, the problem was 1220 when he issued the statement. he issued the statement about the red line because he was upset about the possible use of chemical weapons and he wanted to throw a brush-back pitch. once he made the red line speech, the die the cast. >> rose: and the deal in part

with the russians to get the chemical weapons out there gave him an opportunity to say look what happened. we got the chemical weapons out of there. if in fact they hadn't gotten the chemical weapons, would he still have been hesitant, and my impression why your piece is yes? >> yes, but we're going down the rabbit hole of counter-factuals and what he argues or what people around him argue, and i think this argument has a lot of merit, and it's been endorsed by benjamin netherlands, of all people. he says i went without going to war in syria, i got the chemical weapons out. my predecessor-- he wouldn't frame it this way, but this is the way his supporters do-- my predecessor went to war in iraq and there weren't even chemical weapons anymore. all this criticism of my red line debacle, i ended up creating a situation in which the chemical weapons are out. so what are people complaining about?

>> rose: turning now to events overseas. ursula von der leyen is germany's defense minister. he was? washington this week for high-level talks over germany's role in the fight against isis, the civil war in syria, and the flood of refugees streaming into europe from the war zones. >> we have benefitted over many, many decades from our allies in nato who protected us, so it's kind of time to pay back. >> rose: with respect to chancellor merkel, does she see limits on how much germany can do? how many refugees germany can take? >> we took approximately 1 million last year. and if you define asylum as the duty to give shelter or to protect people who are politically persecuted, and who

come from a war country or zone, this is fine. this is a high-value to do that. >> rose: has chancellor merkel paid a political price? >> of course. there's a lot of skepticism in germany whether this will work. and at the beginning, people were, on one hand, overwhelmingly helpful concerning the refugees. but on the other hand, worried how many are going to come? >> rose: is it changing europe? >> over time, if we do it well, if we manage this crisis, it will change europe for the better. none of the 28 member states would be awbl to tackle this migrant crisis on its own. but 28 together are able to really make a difference. and that's what europe wants to prove at the moment. >> rose: let me turn to the war against isis. you'll have germany playing what role? >> germany, since almost two years now, is supporting the

kurds, the peshmerga. >> rose: with? >> with arms. >> rose: training? >> and with training. and we were able to give enough strength and courage and equipment and training to the kurds, that they did not only stop isil, were able to protect 1.5 million refugees. we invest a lot in the refugee camps in kurdistan, too. but, also, they were able to defeat ice and i will to fight back isil and to regain territory, which is enormously important, because it destroyed the image of invincibility of isil. >> rose: what's the plan for syria? you've got the secession of hostilities. the question is, is that working, as far as you know? >> it is working. since 10 to 11, 12 days by now, so a short period, which gives

us hope. but we should knock on wood that stays as it is. >> rose: moderate rebel forces are no longer under attack from russia. >> from russia. basically the cease-fire does work. here and there there are difficulties, but if you look at those processes, for such a complex, the last few days, it's going in the right direction, and we should support that by all means. >> rose: the fight against isis has moved into cyber space. this month, the pentagon cyber warriors began attacking the communications capabilities of jihadists defending the city of mosul. admiral mike rogers is the commander of cyber command and also the director of the national security agency. >> we have publicly acknowledged that we are adding cyber as another tool in the broad set of

capabilitiecapabilities that weg to bring together, both as department of defense, and as a nation, in the fight against isil. >> rose: how would you characterize not just social media but cyber? >> they clearly nnd understand the power of information. they clearly have applied that knowledge and insight as part of a broader strategy. there are a whole lot more than activities we see on the battle field, so to speak, in terms of the physical domain. we pay great attention watching to see how does their capability with respect to how they employ cyber capabilities, how does that change over time? that has not been a significant issue to date. but oftentimes, i'm asked what are some of the things that concern you? one of the things that i've said very publicly that concerns me is what happens when nonstate actors who generally have no interest in the status quo, whose vision of the future is tearing down much of those structures that have created stability and progress over time

-- >> they deent even believe in the future. >> nope. they want to destroy them. so you look at that kind of thought process, and you say what happens if they decide they want to use cyber as a weapon, to turn it against the west, our aexpliez-- allies and ourselves. >> rose: that's a big fear. how do you combat that? >> we try to make it more difficult for an opponent to achieve success, things we do to hardep our networks, make sure our defensive capabilities are there. we look at concepts of deterrence, try to articulate to nations, to actors out there. hey, there is a price to pay if you insist on engaging in those behaviors. and if this fails to achieve the desired effect, we are prepared to take additional measures, if necessary, at the time and place and the manner of our choosing. >> rose: what concerns you most? and what makes you most optimistic? >> i am always concerned about the potential of another 9/11. that's as much an emotional

scale. i can still see the image of the twin towers coming down, and it just physically agitates me. how could someone have done that to us. >> rose: how could we not have recognized it was coming? >> right. it's my job, along with a whole lot of other people, to ensure it doesn't happen again. so that's an important visceral thing for me. oishz the things i tend to look at in the cyber arena, i with about destructive acts against critical infrastructure, we've talked about. i worry about data and software manipulation, and then i look at what happens when nonstate actors decide that cyber is now-- take isil as an example-- it's not just a tool for the promulgation of ideology, the generation of revenue, the recruitment of followers or the coordination of activities across a wide geographic span. >> rose: it's more than that. >> my concern there is what happens if they decide it's a destructive weapons system?

>> rose: too big to fail-- it is a phrase that brings back the unpleasant memories of the reckless behavior by wall street that almost crashed the economy. neel kashkari says it is a problem that is still with us. he oversaw the $700 billion wall street bailout, and he's making headlines again as the president of the federal reserve bank of minneapolis. >> so we have these giant banks at the center of our financial system, and the problem is if one of them collapses, there are all these linkages to the whole economy. it's like the heart and our arteries and our vains. if you have a heart attack, it can kill the whole body, not just the heart that gets damaged. that's what we saw in 2008. >> rose: when you say too big to fail today. how many are too big to fail? >> 20 that have been designated as financially significant. >> rose: meaning they cannot be allowed to fail. >> basically, that's what it means. >> rose: what do you say to

the idea that people that have been package of penalized have been banks and not people people in the banks that made the decisions. >> it frustrates me -- >> people don't pay accountability. >> the managers don't pay. it's the shareholders who end up paying. that isn't fair. >> rose: what would you have done? >> i'm not a lawyer and this is really an issue for the department of justice. it's hard for me to know what ould go back and hold people accountable. >> at least on a go-forward basis. a legal framework where people are on the hook for their fraudulent decisions. >> rose: a bank like jp morgan, wells fargo, i would d they'll say we didn't failil, >> they didn't fail in 2008 because the american people stepped in, and they're kidding themselveses . >> rose: jamie diamond would say we didn't need the money you

gave us. we didn't want it, and you made us. you know it's true. hank paulson made him take it because he thought the crisis was so deep that everybody had to be part-- >> of the solution. >> rose: am i right? >> that is true. however-- and i like jamie diamond personally and i'm not here to demonize anybody-- but if all of jp morgan's trading partners inspector bankruptcy, they would be in bankruptcy, too. so the notion that they were strong at that moment was only true because the american people stepped in to save all of their friends around the table is there could it happen again? >> sure, it could. these things repeat themselves and the problem is, and why i feel some urgency now, if we don't take action now while we still remember highway devastating the crisis was, we're going to forget. and then 20 or 50 years from now it's going to happen again. we repeated the same mistakes that led to the great depression, we repeated them going into this crisis. let's learn the lesson.

>> rose: this past weekend, i was in havana to witness a sure sign of the change in relations between the united states and cuba. i was there with electronic music star diplo. he made history when he performed with the group major lazer, in front of an estimated 400,000 fans. ( cheers ) on havana's main concourse outside the reopened u.s. embassy, three d.j.s put on a show-- >> havana, cuba! >> rose:-- that made history. ♪ ♪ it seemed like every young person in havana was there. this wasn't the music of their parents. it was theirs. >> the music speaks for itself. they don't know who we are.

it's just the sound, the music. >> rose: "they" are major lazer, a trio of d.j.s known by their stage names. you have said this is the most important show you have ever done. >> i think the pressure is on us to do something, you know, it's kind of an amazing opportunity. >> rose: you had to do this. >> i think it's important. i also think it's very important to create something new. that's why i first started make music. when we first started to rent old vfw halls ihalls in philadea and played our music. i think it's important to keep those dialogues happening, those parties happening. that's what we're doing here in havana. >> rose: is there a playlist or is it spontaneous? >> sometimes. it depends. our show, when we have the lighting cues we have to keep it formatted to a set list. but lots of times we go off on a tangent. if the crowd wants this, i'll go that way. they want this --

>> and you can feel them? >> that's the whole job of a d.j., you have to feel the rhythm. >> rose: feel where the crowd is. >> exactly. >> rose: does it differ when you go from country to country? >> >> yes. >> rose: there was rhythm on hand in havana, with little talk of politics. it was, after all, a free, government-approved concert. but in place of diplomacy, there was melody. everyone says they want to see cuba before it changes but if this weekend was any indication, the change is under way. ♪ all we need is somebody to lean on ♪ >> rose: i mean, there is a sense that somehow this is an important time for these young cubans. >> right. >> rose: for them to feel connected to the world. >> it is. >> rose: less isolated. >> for the first time they're

getting connected. i was surprised at how much they knew, how culturally aware the kids are, considering there's such a sort of blockade of culture reaching cuba. and i think it's going to change a lot. because you can't stop-- when information starts to come, you can't stop that flow. >> havana, cuba! >> rose: here is a look at the week ahead. sunday marks the start of daylight saving time. monday is pi day. tuesday is the day of the florida presidential primary. wednesday is the 90th birthday of comedian jerry lewis. thursday is st. patrick's day. friday is the beginning of the senate's easter recess. saturday is the first day of the women's world curling championships in swift current,

saskatchewan. and here is what's new for your weekend. ariana grande hosts nbc's "is the night live." the dropkick murphies and vanilla ice headline the annual shamrock-fest in washington, d.c. and bonnie raitt launches her "dig deep" tour saturday in richmond, virginia. ♪ i don't know why but like the women i just keep blowing free ♪ must be gypsy in me >> rose: that's "charlie rose: the week" for this week. before we go, we want to note the death of the celebrated author pat conroy. he was buried tuesday in the carolina low country he idolized in his novels. they include "the great santini"

and "the prince of tides," "beach music" and "the lords of discipline." we end this week with pat conroy at the table. on behalf of all of us here, thank you for watch. i'm charlie rose. we'll see you next time. >> when i write, i want my readers to be moved a great deal. i want them to be moved passionately, like i'm moved. these subjects all move me. i don't write down a story that does not move me significantly. i don't create characters that i'm not interested in, fascinated by. i want the characters to live on the page. i want when they speak, i want when they say good-bye to those character they feel like they know those characters, they're part of them. >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by:

>> rose: welcome to the program. tonight, admiral mike rogers, director of the national security agency. >> there has been a conscious set of efforts, not just at n.s.a. and particularly more broadly across the government, to try to get to the point that i think you've raised which is valid. we can't just sit here and say to ourselves, well, why don't they seem to like us or why don't they understand what we do is in their defense? that is not a healthy position for us to take and i hope it's not one that is coming across because i don't believe that. >> rose: how much attention do you pay to artificial intelligence? >> you mean machine learning? >> rose: machine learning. is incredibly foundational to the future to me. >> rose: admiral rogers for the hour next.