>> rose: welcome to the program. >> rose: welcome to the program. we begin this evening within' ian bremmer of eurasia group. >> i think president obama got ukraine wrong, i think he got russia on syria wrong. he clearly believed russians were getting sucked into a quagmire not realizing putin's ability to make decisions on a dime and reverse them are greater than anyone. >> rose: we continue with the life and music of hank williams, "i saw the light," actor tom hiddleston and director marc abraham. >> so many painters and writers are brave enough to acknowledge it, write about it, to create art about it, and by putting it

into the world, they bring people together. >> rose: and we conclude this evening talking to nicole hurd of the college ad college advis. >> we have a barrier endangering our democracy because the young people are not going to college and obtaining degrees and our global competitiveness and democracy depend on bright young people out there. so we are marrying the idea of kids finishing themselves, and the counselors and teachers trying hard but without capacity, and holding hands and saying i believe in you. >you. >you. >> rose: >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by the following:

>> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. with our continuing coverage of the brussels attacks and other issues. 31 people were killed and more than 300 wounded. belgian authorities have acknowledged their errors, among them the failure to detain one of the attackers. turkey said it had deported and warned belgian authorities about him. secretary of state john kerry addressed the attacks thursday during his visit to moscow. >> yesterday's events in brussels underscore to all of us the urgency of every country that has an ability to make a difference to end this evil

scourge that comes from daesh and violent extremism. >> rose: kerry's trip to russia comes after president putin said he would withdraw most of the russian force now sir. i can't peace talks in geneva are ongoing as russia and the united states said progress had been made. ian bremmer, founder and president of political risk consultancy eurasia group. pleased to have him back at the table. >> thank you, charlie. >> rose: tell me where to start. are we looking at a any i.s.i.s. strategy throughout europe? should we assume if there's one cell carrying out attacks in brussels and paris, there are probably other cells throughout europe prepared to carry out attacks? >> yes, and also the news that one of these bombers was actually researching nuclear work and trying to get his hands on material for a dirty bomb.

i mean, clearly, they want large, coordinated -- these are not lone wolves and it's not all about the refugee issue. we're talking about large muslim population living in slums, not integrated with the rest of society. in france, it's 8% of the population in. belgium it's 6. the economics aren't working well for the people and the politics are turning against them. >> rose: the attacks are coming from people who went to syria and learned some kind of craft of making bombs under those kind of circumstances and then come back. >> yes, a lot of them are. >> rose: they all came from somewhere. >> they came from somewhere, and it's very difficult for the authorities in these countries to get inside these communities. the united states, not only populations we're talking about much smaller as a percentage, but they're integrated in the community so it's much easier for a new york police department representative, officer or

someone else to know when there someone is thinking about getting radicalized and joining an organization. many times when we break up would-be plots, it's very early in the game, in fact sometimes it looks like entrapment. in belgium, france and across europe, you're not getting nuff information. >> rose: a failure of intelligence. >> of human intelligence, an ability to get inside the communities and, also, a failure of coordination. there is, of course, a european currency, but there is not a european intelligence agency, and these countries are not sharing information nearly as well as they need to be given the scale of he threat. >> rose: as someone pointed out today, it's even within different intelligence agencies within a nation, it's not that they're not sharing as much as simply so much is going on and different people learn different things. this is a problem that came out of 9/11, the recognition that

the c.i.a. and f.b.i. were not talking to each other as much as they should be here. >> that's true. and in belgium, also finding they just don't have the numbers of people that can engage. we saw that after the paris bombings they were able to collect and filter information, but they didn't have 11,000 people on the terror list, they didn't have the agents that could actually be doing the spade work to track these individuals. one of the bombers the turkish government said they warned the europeans about when the authorities basically said, yeah, we know he's a criminal but we can't find a connection to terrorism. so again, you're watching -- there are so many leads and the numbers of people you're talking about are overwhelming that you need to follow, and the european societies are very porous and moving from border to border and not being followed from border to border. >> rose: they have passports and it's a european union. >> it is for now, yes. >> rose: you think that vote's

going to be impact bid this. >> pretty much every political issue in europe is affected negatively by an event like the tragic ones we saw this week. the referendum is coming up june 23, so we have three months. >> rose: some cabinet members resigned due to supporting it. >> cameron lost his chancellor but didn't make it about i his port narrowly but was a dagger about staying in the union. boris johnson, very charismatic. >> rose: wants to be prime minister. >> wants to be prime minister and is putting his politics ahead of that of the betterment of the nation which i would complain about except that we see plenty of it in this part of the world. >> rose: british politics. indeed. but if you ask me do more brits

on balance recognize they should probably stay in the union than not, the answer is yes. but if you ask me how passionately do they feel about staying in the union and that's none at all. those who leave are feeling increasingly strong about it. >> rose: i was in china over the last weekend at a forum there and there were people from britain there and people from all over meeting with chinese ministers and lots of conversation. >> improved dramatically. >> rose: indeed, but at the same time everybody was saying if print leaves the european union it could be a disaster for the global economy. >> it's certainly going to be a disaster for brits. that will be clear. the best report from the confederation of british industry, they were looking at by 2020, 950,000 jobs lost and about 140 billion taken off the bridge economy and that's assuming the scots don't leave the u.k. after a british exit which itself is reasonably likely.

i also think it would take at least a year to do the unwind, an enormous distraction and a run on the pound in the british markets while that happened and the europeans would need to make it painful because they don't want other countries to say look how easy it was for the brits. we want our own referendum. when you take polls across europe, you get 50% more or less from most european nations that they want their own referendum. you put it on the borders that are porous, the feeling european governments are responsible for this, there is not a lot of pro-euro sentiment going on these days. >> rose: you said to me this evening, man, there is never been a time when so much is going on. >> yeah, that's true. >> rose: what's going on? every part of the world, some bad, some good, but the politics are really in flux. think about the dramatic opening with cuba, for example. >> rose: we talked about

terrorism. >> think about the incredible, the low price of energy and what that's doing to the saudis and all the major oil producers, venezuela probably going to lead to a collapse there relatively soon. >> rose: how about saudi arabia? >> of course, all the gulf producers, russia under less pressure but most of the other major energy producers. >> rose: and iran? iran going to be producing a lot more. and that deal is happening. you have the ostensible cease fire in syria, the russians saying they're not a part of it. north korea pushing and escalating significantly the americans exacerbating sanctions while the chinese are saying they don't want to. the number of moving pieces on the board. if you wanted to take a tour, the number of things you would likely want to hit today where things could move dramatically -- >> rose: the economy slowed down? >> yeah, we're in a world -- this year, you had everyone sit doing together and recognizing, you know what? it's not a 4% global environment anymore, it's 3%, and that's

given the level of uncertainty, that makes people a little more risk averse. >> rose: there was a piece in the atlantic magazine by jeffrey goldberg. >> the obama doctrine piece. >> rose: yes. what did you think of the philosophy laid out by the president as to how he sees syria and the middle east and his own imperatives and how he thinks it may as important what he didn't do as what he did in looking at his impact on foreign policy, that his legacy may be that. >> this is the first time on reading this that i recognize to myself, you know, here's a president that's kind of of my generation, someone whose mind, context, thought process, whether or not i agree with it, i actually understand and this article helped me do that. anyone out there that cares has to read this piece. >> rose: what's the reaction of people you know to see this president through these questions and through the gifted hand of jeffrey goldberg outline

his foreign policy? are the saudis saying, oh, my god? are our friends in europe saying, oh, my god, he thinks we're free riders? >> well, you and i have talked about that issue for a while and we've talked about the saudi issue for a while but, nonetheless, seeing it on print and obama say it, the machinations of what's going on analytically in there, i think it's interesting the way he has no time for the washington policy establishment and the way he treats members of his own team, not true inner circle, but everyone outside that, some very capable people with some very serious egos. it's, like, you know, you guys are causing trouble you. read that and you realize the way he felt liberated by taking the decision many people believe was the single worst decision of his administration, syria, i don't think it's the worst decision, but the fact that he's, like, i got pushed into

this red line and this position, there is automatically a desire to use force -- >> rose: on the part of the political foreign policy establishment. >> yes, and specifically the idea i'm going to lose credibility and that's important if i don't go and bomb and by the way when i bomb, i'm probably going to kill civilians, they will use human shields and it won't accomplish anything, but because i need to maintain credibility, not important to me, but it is to the washington establishment -- >> rose: and the council on foreign relations, perhaps eurasia. >> i wouldn't say that. i would like to believe washington is a part of the problem here because it's more of an echo chamber, a filter bubble. it's easier when you're outside to look in. >> rose: i think it's an establishment group thing. >> i think that's right. my point on all of this, whatever you think of any of these people is he believed that was the right decision, and --

>> rose: and you don't. you know, i have to say that reading it from his position gave me more empathy for what he was going through. i think it caused a lot of damage and i think it hurt a lot of alliances. >> rose: hurt rappings and -- ht relationships and alliances. >> yes. and if you want to ask has obama been successful, you want to look at when you came into office and leave office, is our position in the world better or worse. >> rose: and the answer to that, is our position better or worse? >> it's clearly worse, but it's clearly better in latin america and, in part, that was strategic patience, and it's clearly at least a little better with america's asian allies. >> rose: and how much better was it because -- of the cuba decision? >> that's a part of it. >> rose: a big part of it, isn't it? >> it's a part of it. >> rose: latin america would raise that with the president

every time he would try to get them to do something. >> true. but the fact is when he was getting whacked around by maduro, he didn't bite back. he said i know this guy is eventually on the way out and i'm not going to raise the bait. he did the same in argentina and now he's in argentina and he has a much better relationship as a consequence with the regime, would have much tougher if he had taken all that. it's interesting and the strategic patience which is not a doctrine, it's a tool, but the tools have actually served him reasonably well. in the case of syria, they've served him badly, i would argue not because he decided not to bomb, but because he allows himself to continue to get sucked in, in spite of himself. >> rose: what's amazing, when he was questioned on "60 minutes," whenever the last interview was, and he basically said, he argued that, look, the

russians are in a quagmire. they're going to go over there, get sucked into this, and you think it's wise but not wise. putin goes there, does a certain amount of time doing what he said he would, which is prop up the government, said he was going to take on i.s.i.s., didn't do that as well. took on people opposed to assad. assad is propped up, he's in a more difficult position, a better negotiating position, and says we're going to leave. even though he leaves with two-third, he says we're leaving and some says that gives him some kind of influence to be a player as obviously kerry is paying attention to because he's there trying to negotiate some future of syria. >> obama i have must have less empathy for obama's decision-making process on russia. i think he got ukraine wrong. i think he got russia on syria wrong. he clearly believed the russians were getting sucked into a quagmire not recognizing putin's ability to make and implement

decisions on a dime and then reverse them are vastly greater than that of any president of the united states. doesn't have to deal with the bureaucratic restraints. so he's in and out. i think the big problem i have with obama coming out of this piece as well as what i've seen for seven years is he does have a hard time. he's extremely thoughtful and analytical, he thinks a few moves ahead but doesn't put hemself in other people's views easily. the thing he has in common with president bush is in their own ways they're both exceptionallists. >> rose: that comes out clearly. he believes this is an exceptional nation and bleefsz and clearly says it that in the end america has to lead, everybody wants america to come up with the leadership and that's what he says happens at the g-20 and other meetings coming up in september. >> the other thing that's interesting, it was very clear to me that obama would much rather be remembered as an

extraordinarily intelligent president than as a great president but only moderate capabilities, i really believe that, and that's a problem. ultimately, he needs to be right, even if he's not successful and even if he doesn't lead. >> rose: you see a bit of that in how strong his emphasis is on the rightness of his decision on syria. he's never given an inch on that decision. >> or any of the decisions. >> rose: what is going on in brazil? >> well, i think he will be impeached in the next couple of months and that is new. the level of information against her including tapes she and her chief of staff had with lula, the popular opinion is enormous, she likely will lose all coalition partners in terms of the parties and probably means she can't get the votes in congress. >> rose: what does his

presence do, protects him or her? >> no, his presents protects him from being arrested by a lower-level judge. it has to go to the supreme court of the land and that takes time. the facts that the tapes came out and the fact that the head of the most important construction firm in brazil at the head of the corruption is talking and involved in what looks like a plea bargain. i think it's past the tipping point. i think there are 591 members of congress in brazil and i think something like 270 of them are presently being charged with major crimes. not quite half. so it could be worse, but not by much. i've seen this with my

interactions for everyone in brazil, the olympics will be the most interesting since 1998 in seoul which brought down their military regime, this regime is gone. but i tell you, the strategic patience for obama, if i were advising the next big opportunity for the u.s. is brazil. once this president goes and the vice president comes in and becomes president and we go through that, it's going to be a clean slate. the same thing will happen as in argentina they'll see in venezuela, the entire western hemisphere in some ways by default and economic malfeasance but is turning back to the united states. once they default and maduro goes, absolutely. >> rose: china, i just returned. they've announced a five-year plan. >> went pretty well. >> rose: all say the same thing. went well. they say they will grow 6.5% to

7. >> they give a band, usually. >> rose: and they say, we'll open up our markets more than we ever v we'll allow more competition than we ever have. we understand the volatility of the market. we understand that people, because of reforming the economic picture of china, there are going to be some people that are displaced and we have $15 billion fund to take care of them. they seem to be asking the hard questions of their economy and are prepared to try to find the best answer they can within some context of who they are. >> there are very few leaders in the world today that are doing that, that are able and willing to think strategically about the changes that need to be made in their economy. in china, those changes are immense. xi jinping so far has proven himself to be willing to take that on with congress and the five-year plan. in addition to what you said, two things, one, the

anti-corruption efforts are not slowing down, they're picking up steam and actually moving up. they start in the provinces with some of the s.o.e.s, is the state enterprises, now hit the ministry. they're not facing opposition. >> rose: because xi jinping supports it. >> that's great. if you had said four years ago that could be possible at this level, a million members of the communist party through an investigation process, it's never happening and it's happening. second point, their growth, 6.5 to 7, no economist believes it's that number, they all say 4 or 5. but what's good is whatever it is, the stimulus and not just that $15 million billion-dollar fund, the stimulus is going toward consumption, healthcare, pensions, changing tax, it's not going to the fat cats who have

been inefficient in strategic sectors they don't need to spend more money on so they actually are rebalancing. but you're so right, there are still huge problems. and i do worry. they clearly do not know how to manage a transition towards an open and liquid stock market. >> rose: not only that, an open and liquid society. >> and a currency. so the question on society is if you can give the people economically what they want, are they going to be satisfied with not having political liberties? >> rose: i understand the whole idea. >> for me the question is not are they going to have liberal elections? for me is will they be capable. they're all really strong, more than anyone since mao. when you move the economy toward consumption and making parts to have the chinese economy emboldened, can you decentralize the power so those parts to have the country can be governed

differently? so far they've shown no inclination to do that. in the next five years i think they will need to show an inclination but they do have time. as much as it worries a lot of countries that they're going to build their military and so they're going to build the islands and take more and we'll have a conflict, the fact is we desperately need china to succeed. if there's a good news story out there right now in the world, it's coming out of asia and china. >> rose: brings us back to the obama doctrine and jeffrey goldberg's piece, talked about the pivot in asia and latin america to where those kinds of -- you know, he sees those countries as the future. >> he does. >> rose: and he sees the the extraction from mille middle eas essential. >> that's what surprised me because you don't want to tell these guys you're marginally a part of the past. >> rose: and when they get nervous he flies over to their

capital and the talks to them. >> and even kowtows like with the saudis on that big trip and we talked about that. except for the fact obama believes asia is the future and i think that's right, and yet the trans-pacific partnership, he kind of let it go a couple of years and pushed against the clock, i think he's going to get it done but it's not a complete slam dunk. his second term team he lost his top asia people and didn't seem interested in replenishing the asia piece. you can't do it yourself. you get the sense he thinks if i have the answer, i don't need these people. when i see asia pivot, i think hillary, tim geithner, those kind of people, then i think obama. while obama has had success, i was at that apec summit in manila and i was sitting next to obama when he did the oprah winfrey thing h he did well in

south asia. but for some time, america's asian allies look to the u.s. and say we don't feel you're exphitd to us. how do you have a president who views this as america's future, so gets it and yet the allies don't feel it and it's because he doesn't put hemself in their position. >> rose: they also talk about the difference between rhetoric and deed. >> that's right. >> rose: and -- and he talks and writes a good game, but i think in terms of whether he can really get it done in asia, that's a little more challenging for him. >> rose: thanks for coming. glad to have you here. >> you, too. >> rose: back in a moment. stay with us. >> rose: hank williams was one of the most influential songwriters in history earning him the name the hillbilly shakespeare. chart topping hits, hey good looking, your cheating heart, and i'm so lonesome i could cry. the talented and troubled singer died at age 29.

now a new biopic tells his story to rise to country stardom and battle with addiction. it's called "i saw the light." his granddaughter calls it haunting. >> a rousing welcome to mr. hank williams. ♪ hey goodlookin' ♪ >> came to see me to play songs he'd written and i offered him a contract right then and there. >> do you love me? most the time i do. congratulations. yeah, mr. williams. he's going to have a real dad, not like it was for me. >> saning sing like his daddy tonight. >> what are you writing, hank? a poem. why don't you write me a poem? >> i might need to get to know you a little better. >> there is speculation about

the hard lives of folks. >> you go out on the road and sleep with a different woman every night. >> i need you with me. you think you could treat me right, then? >> i can try. business is tough on marriage. >> marriage is tough on marriage. >> you're barely even here. you're barely even a father to him. >> hank! boy, i'm a professional at making a mess at things. ♪ praise the lord, i saw the light ♪ >> everybody has darkness in them. talking about things like anger, sorrow, shame. i show it to 'em, and they hear it, and they'll have to take it home. ♪ now i'm so happy, to sorry in sight ♪ >> country music is sincere. a man sings a sad song, he knows

it's sad. ♪ i saw the light ♪ >> rose: joining me is film star tom hiddleston and director marc abraham. i'm pleased to have them to talk about a remarkable being, hank williams. he said everybody has a little darkness in them. >> that's right. >> rose: what did he mean? that's a good question, charlie. i think -- well, for us i think we -- the way i see hank is that every artist exposes something about human nature and has the courage to express it in their work. >> rose: right. and i think really great artists like hank williams and so many musicians, painters, writers are brave enough to acknowledge it within themselves, to write about it, to make and create art about it and by putting it into the world

they bring people together. >> rose: and at the same time he said people don't write music, it's given to them, meaning the life experiences give them the music, i guess. >> that's right, yeah. i mean, it all comes from his heart, i think. i think -- i don't know where it came from with hank. i thought about it so much as i played the part. i wanted to know how -- you know, he was one of those guys who opened his mouth and the truth fell out. i don't know how he had access to that, but it happened some way. >> rose: this is not a biopic in the traditional way. >> no, i certainly attempted it not to be because i didn't find it was an interesting to start in the cradle and take him to the grave. i was always influenced by films that didn't do that, which actually went in to find the core of who somebody was, not necessarily the various beats of their lives. so i tried to avoid that. we just decided it told the story much more in relationships

and how -- you know, impressive and intense relationships between men and women often influence what comes out in your work. >> rose: i don't think there's a bigger legend in country western music, is there? >> i think he's the top. he's zeus in country. they all tip their hat, whether george jones, merle haggard, lefty frassell or kris kristofferson, all the way up, in the end, it's hank. >> rose: what was it, the poetry? the way he could seek what everybody's pain was and express it in a way that they felt but couldn't express? >> i think everybody -- and i mean this -- every single person, if you and i walked around on the street and stopped the most random person and asked them if somebody in their life was addicted, somebody has an alcohol problem, somebody's grandmother just died, somebody's child's in trouble, they would have that. they wouldn't have the ability to put that into poetry.

i think this is a man and i don't know how to explain it and why i didn't go into traditional biography about it, we never came to the understanding of why he was who he was. i can't tell you why bob zimmerman whose father ran a furniture store is bob dylan. >> rose: but bob dylan very much admired hank williams, his song writing. >> many times he's spoken of hank's influence on him as a songwriter and how much he admired him. >> that's what i found extraordinary is that the more i researched the man, the more i discovered that hank is a cornerstone in american music. everybody tips their hat to him and i think there is a tension in his lyrics and poetry which is between his external charisma, he was clearly electrifying on stage, a real star, and his internal

vulnerability is that he was so macho and, you know, his music came out in 1947, 1948, 1949, in the wake of the second world war, a and for a man so charismatic and masculine as he was to be able to say, i'm so lonesome i could cry, was a big thing at the time. >> rose: to say it. so there was strength in vulnerability. >> right, and there is the sincerity of it that people like dylan acknowledge. the fact it was so authentic. he felt it, knew it, he sang it from the bottom of his soul and everybody after that, whether bob dylan or bruce springsteen or johnny cash or, you know, where i come from the rolling stones, you know, they remixed hank's sound and made it british rock and roll. >> rose: speaking of where you come from, the idea. >> some hue brings, i think.

and you chose to sing the songs. >> yeah. i felt like -- marc and i agreed nobody would be interested in a movie where i lip synced. the fascinating part of acting, i find, is bridging the gap between myself and the character and trying to find in that gap the common ground that i can express. so, you know, i love what i do, and i feel -- the greatest pleasure i get is from the connection that you can make with audiences. you tell a story and you connect and you move people, one hopes. and i know hank felt the same. he felt the same connection with his audience and he loved being up on that stage. i trained in theater, and there were aspects of that experience that i could transfer, but the new thing, the new territory for me was singing and playing and playing these songs.

>> rose: is this your passion for authenticity here? >> yeah, in terms of him singing the songs -- >> rose: and being able to actually see the fingers creating the music. >> yeah, for me -- i don't knock anybody who makes a movie where they have lip syncing, but for me it takes me out of the picture because i have to go from the real person -- away from the real person and back to the character. i told tom, you will never sound exactly like hank williams. i know hank williams like my mother knows her kitchen. the minute i hear a note, i'll know it's you. the point is to create a visceral emotion. >> rose: the relationship with his first wife was a fire. >> yeah. >> rose: that burned deeply in him. >> yes. she was a very, very fierce woman. a lot of people had a lot to say

about audrey williams and, you know, i, obviously, didn't know. but she was very ambitious and she really saw herself to be side by side with him, and she didn't have the talent to do that. she did a lot of things and gave him support. but they had a fiery relationship. up and down. divorced once, got back together, divorced again. it was really rugged and there was a lot of pain in it. we know, you can go back, relationships love pain. that's where this stuff comes out of and she fired a lot and that's how i really wanted to tell the story. >> rose: you cast elizabeth olson. >> yes. >> rose: tell me about spina bifida. >> it's a degenerative disease of the spine. spina bifida occulta, and it's hidden and very difficult to detect or was at the time and it registers as a chronic problem

later in life and now, of course, i think they can diagnose it in children and catch things early. but hank had this disease from birth but he didn't know about it till his late 20s, very shortly before he died, and i think it was part of why -- why he was so vulnerable. he was physically vulnerable. i remember watching documentaries and seeing family members and cousins and bandmates saying he never worked in the field, he never served as a soldier, and part of the reason he picked up a guitar is it was something he knew he could do. but it also formed his very unique physical. when he's on stage, his knees start to sway and his hips were so tight because to have the back pain that he couldn't swing his hips like elvis ended up doing but the rhythm went into his knees which i found fascinating. >> he was famous for his hats.

this is a very authentic hat made by a couple of guys in tennessee and they knocked it off perfectly. they also had one that had a horseshoe shape up here, too. we try to stay as awe they wantic as possible. >> rose: there wassa special way he tipped it. >> yeah, if you want a demonstration. >> rose: yeah, i want a demonstration. >> all right, folks, this one bought us quite a few beans and business kits, it's called good looking thing cooking, how about cooking it up with me. there you go. >> rose: this is where you're recording the first major hit, move it on over. reached number 4 on the billboard list. ♪ came in last night half past ten ♪ ♪ that baby of mine wouldn't let me in ♪ ♪ so move it on over ♪ move it on over ♪ move over little dog 'cause the big dog's movin' in ♪

♪ she changed the lock on our front door ♪ ♪ and my door key don't fit no more ♪ ♪ so get it on over ♪ scoot it on over ♪ move over skinny dog 'cause the fat dog's movin' in ♪ ♪ . >> rose: yours was not the first idea to make a film about hank williams? >> no, there was one made in 1964 where george hamilton starred and hank williams, jr. sang the music and they lip synced it. that was shepherded it by audrey. >> rose: honky tonking.

♪ . ♪ . ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ when you were sad and lonely ♪ and have no place to go ♪ come to see me baby ♪ and bring along some dough ♪ and we'll go honky tonkin' ♪ honky tonkin' ♪ honky tonkin' honey baby ♪ we'll go honky tonkin' around this town ♪ >> i'm under no obligation to you. >> well that goes both ways, huh? he's dranking like a fish tonight. >> you think so?

♪ honky tonkin' honey baby ♪ we'll go honky tonkin' around the town ♪ >> rose: he had an addiction. well, he -- rose: and how powerful was that? >> had him by the throat. >> rose: really. apparently he couldn't go out and have just one cocktail. even if he had two or three, he didn't have the system that could handle it. later, because of his spina bifida and the pain he was in, he ended up having a quack doctor who got his degree at a gas station in chicago and started shooting him up with painkillers. so everything that could have gone wrong went wrong in this young man's life, 27, 28 years old. >> rose: he was obsessed with the grand ole opry. >> obsessed with it. i think it was something -- you know, i found it fascinating to imagine now because it was so inundated with stimulation and opportunities for entertainment, but back in the day on the saturday night, to be on that stage with those stars, people

he loved so much and respected like roy acuff and ernest tubb, for him, that was everything he wanted. that was the end of his dream. what was fascinating as i was looking into it, i remember in a document rii watched one of his touring band members said all his life, hank williams wanted to get up there and -- on that stage and be somebody, but when he got up there, he found there was nothing there. it was all back down where he'd come from, which to me is such a beautiful kind of illustration of the double-edged sword of a drive for that kind of success. >> rose: johnny cash's eldest daughter helped you? >> rodney crowell who was married to roseanne cash once

upon a time was my mentor. he was with incredible. he is based in nashville, and he's been making music for 40 years. he's been touring with emmy lou harris, and he himself saw hank williams on his father's shoulders at age two, one of his earliest memories. he's been such a keeper of the flame of hank's legacy and was such a patient tutor for me in the ways of the blues. i had a huge distance to travel, and he was with me every step of the way. because i'm a natural baratone, and hank was a tenor, so i had to change my pitch and also alter my sense of rhythm and then also commit myself to the sincerity of the songs, and rodney was my coach. it was a fun time. >> rose: among other things people said, what pleases you the most?

>> i think it's that they love listening to the music because that was -- for me, that was the biggest challenge. i felt such a responsibility to his family, to his legacy -- >> rose: and when they said it was haunting. >> yeah, holly williams, his granddaughter, the daughter of hank, jr., saw the film and she wrote me a letter and it's one of the let, you keep forever because she found it so touching, and she was so tickled by the fact that a british actor had played her grandfather and, in her mind, from certain angles and in certain lights, it was like looking at a ghost. i think also there's a scene in the film where elizabeth olsen and i as hank and audrey sang a duet of "i saw the light" as a

lullaby to hank, jr. and she was watch ago seen that could have happened to her father and was touched by that. >> rose: the theme "i saw the light"? >> because it's so ironic. he saw it but for such a brief, brief, brief time, and that always struck me. i mean, there are so many great titles to a song. but that one touched me to profoundly, you know. >> rose: "i saw the light" briefly. >> yeah, i saw it briefly. >> rose: thank you, congratulations. >> thank you, charlie. >> rose: good to have you. great to be here. >> rose: we'll be right back. stay with us. >> rose: nicole hurd is here, c.e.o. and founder of the college advising corps. the organization helps to increase the number of low-income first-generation college students who enter and complete higher education, sent more than 500 recent college

graduates on two-year stints as college advisors to more than 160,000 students in underserved high schools around the country. advisors work to create a college-centric culture in the schools they serve. the model compare to teach for america or the peace corps but with a focus on college advising. pleased to have nicole hurd at this table for the first time. welcome. >> glad to be here, charlie, thank you. >> rose: congratulations. you're doing great stuff. tell me how this came into being. >> came into being realizing there are great recent college graduates, many who are the first in the family themselves, so service oriented and wanting to change the world and airnessing that with a problem that's really a crisis in our country. our counselor to student ratio is 480 to 1. we have a process way too complicated in terms of financial aid and filling out applications so we have a barrier that's endangering our

democracy because young people are not going to college or obtaining degrees and our global competitiveness and democracy depend on having bright, educated young people out there. we're marrying the idea of people who just finished themselves with people who are counselors and teachers but don't have the capacity and saying "i believe in you" which is what all the kids need. we all have mentors. to say i can show you how to get to the finish line, too, is incredible. i was at the university of virginia, great public institution that believes in public imrens and i saw all these great kids applying to teach for america and they take about 11% of their graduates and peace corps take about 15 and it was, like, where's another outlet to take the great, diverse talent. because the young people have gone to the finishline, to be

able to go back to a student and say, i have your story and you can do this. so many of our students don't think they can go to a duke, a&m, carolina, whatever the school is, and the idea is only 3% of the students in the top 137 colleges in this country are from the bottom economic corridor. >> rose: how many? 3%. where's the opportunity? these schools -- >> rose: education is your future. >> absolutely. and these universities need to be ladders of opportunity. so we need to make sure we push great young students into these schools and the universities admit them and give the financial aid to make that happen. >> rose: you got a huge grant. from the jack kent cook foundation to start. we started uva, $10 million to go national, spent six years at carolina incubating this. >> rose: six years at unc incubating this? >> yes. >> rose: why? belief in public excellence.

the other person who's a hero is president friday. >> rose: my great friend. who i miss dealer. i remember one of the first group of carolina advisors sitting around a table and president friday came in and were talking about why they were doing this. they're saying i'm from this, that part of north carolina, same schools, all saying why they were going to do this work. bill friday afterwards smiled and said you know what you are? you're messengers of hope. it's just the most beautiful moment. they're messengers of hope. >> rose: so you're there, got the grant, inc. baiting at unc. what's the next step? >> we're spreading across the country. in california, michigan, rhode island, massachusetts, new york, we've had great success in new york. n.y.u. has been our flagship in new york. we have kids going to college

20, 30% of the rate when we got there. >> rose: how do you measure success. >> how many people are going to college and are they finishing. are we giving them the financial aid and social and emotional support they need so they have a meaningful credential. so we're okay whether a credential, volkswagonle school, community college, four-year institution, we want everyone to have the best match and fit so they will have the best opportunity that's the american dream. if we don't do this, the american dream is in jeopardy. >> rose: you can't say that enough. >> absolutely. >> rose: and in a sense of our leadership. >> right. these are our future leaders. think about it, you know, the story of so many of us. so i think about, you know, the current chair of the board of duke is a first generation graduate, the current board of stanford, one of our great champions, men any hobson, first generation, low-income, underrepresented student herself

and came to talk to the advisors. she has a very similar story to the advisors and students and she told them all to be brave. we all need to tell each other to be brave. she motivates me when i think about i have to raise dollars and do something when i think about what do i do. i think of the democracy we need to protect and, two, i need to be brave. >> rose: i'm a first generation graduate. >> we're trying to find the next charlie rose and melanie hobson to step up. it's a privilege. >> rose: you say it's data driven and evidence based. >> yes. i'm a nerd at heart. i have a ph.d. in studies. evaluations at stanford, amazingly academic eric bedinger. we look at are we bringing in financial aid? we bring $76 million in financial aid to the students last year. we try to measure, is this going to help our economy? if someone has a college education, it changes the

trajectory of their own family because their brothers and sisters and children will go to college. it increases the tax base, access to healthcare, participation, so all sorts of things to measure to give a return on investment. we're cost effective, about $154 per student to serve them. so why not invest in our kids this way. >> rose: when you look at all that you have done, what haven't you done? >> what haven't we done is put a microphone on this issue. it's great to be in 532 schools this year, serve 160,000 students, but there are 1.4 low-income students that immediate the advice. we're thinking about technology. we have great innovation with the college board to reach the young people through texts and video chats and others. the thing i love about my job is whether i'm going to high school and what i see is a spark between advisors and students.

you see that over and over again and it's our job to make sure it becomes fireworks. >> rose: and doesn't dim. back to the four words we talk to and. >> rose: how did you know peter grauer. >> he is' one of my champions. >> rose: he champions you, by the way. >> i can remember yesterday sitting with erskine boles. he said to me, nicole, you have a great idea, there is somebody you need to meet. i said, who is that? he said, peter grauer, everything he touches, it's better. the best part about him is humility. the most important thing is grace and humility. nobody wants to see a 23 year old go in and say i want to change the school. it's about changing the story and empathy and love. peter walks this way through life. back to the mentors, saying i

believe in you, peter not only believes in our students, he believes in me, he makes me bring hi a game every day and that's invaluable. >> rose: your favorite course to instruct at u.v.a. was the history of female saints. because we need role models? because -- >> because i think sometimes -- >> rose: -- their stories confront issues that are vital to us? >> that's right. a lot of time people think about male saints and the dominance of male saints. i used to show beautiful writings to mydent by women saints. we work hard to make sure women have more seats in board rooms and classes and other places and i want people to know that women have a beauty and a voice and that's not new. >> rose: and you're doing that. thank you for coming.

>> thank you, charlie. >> rose: wonderful. if you want to connect with you, how do you connect with you? >> happy to connect. web site is advising corps.org. >> rose: thank you. thank you. >> rose: thank you for joining us. we'll see you next time. for more about this program and earlier episodes, visit us online at pbs.org and charlierose.com.

>> rose: funding for "charlie >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide.

this is "nightly business report." with tyler mathisen and sue herera. battle in the board room. an activist investor is going to extremes moving to overthrow yahoo!'s entire board. gross domestic problems. persistent errors plague one of the most important measures of economic growth. and behind the hack. the justice department charges several iranians for a series of cyber attacks on our financial system and infrastructure. all that and more tonight on "nightly business report" for thursday, good evening and welcome. not holding back. activist investors usually don't, of course. but today we learn that the hedge fund that's been agitating for change at yahoo! wants to do something extreme.