>> rose: welcome to the program. tonight we take you to broadway. first eclipsed, a new play starring lup i hada nyong'o written by danai gurira. >> for me as a require it's always the goal to write characters that you might see the girl as a victim because that is what you see on the news but i will give you two hours to spend with her mind, her thoughts, experiences, in her fears an in her joys so you can't walk away and call her the other ever again. >> rose: and conclude with a eater with lin-manuel miranda, the creator and star of "hamilton." >> are you burr or hamilton. >> i'm both. we're all both. that's the whole thing. i think that there are moments in our life when we step up and

we take the risk when it's easier to stay home. you go sing 16 bars of hamilton at the white house when you could have sung a song you already know. that's the hamilton in me. it took me six years to get the show to broadway. rose: "eclipsed" and. "hamilton" when we continue. funding for charlie rose is provided by the following: and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: the second lie ger-- liberian civil war from 1-9d 99 to 2003 can claim

hundreds of thousands of lives, eclipsed now running at the john golden theater focuses on the lives of five lie ber yn women living through the struggle. "the new york times" says the play reminded of us important and too easily forgeten among our own country's racial troubles. eclipse made broadway history earlier thissier becoming the first production to feature an all-female cast, director and playwright. joining me is the star of t play, lupita nyong'o. its plea wright and its director liesl tommy. they are here to talk about not only the history of the play but the history of these great performers coming together in a history-making way. congratulations, first of all. >> thank you, charlie. >> rose: what's the connection to the play that was put on at yale in 2009? >> it is the same play. >> rose: it is the same play. >> yes. that was one of its first productions. and out of some sort of amazing

sin cronicity lupita was walking too the school as a first year graduate student. >> i was an understudy. and at the yale school of drama you get assigned to understudy the shows at the rep. and sos that was the very first show i got to understudy. >> rose: how different is the production on broadway today from that very first production that was created there in 2009? >> it is actually very similar because danai and i had been working on it for a number of years before it got to yale and done rigorous work with the script. and we were feeling very good about where we landed at yale. and the adjustments we made were really on two scenes. >> rose: really, just two scenes. >> for the current production, yeah. >> rose: what were you creating in your own mind? what's the story. >> the sort of big picture story

was the story about how human being survive under untenable situations. and we are-- . >> rose: within them to survive? >> and what is specific to each individual that makes their path different from someone else's path. so the circumstances are similar. you're living in war. you're living under oppression, but every single woman in the play chooses a different path. because we are all different. and when we are living under these kinds of circumstances, no one is going to make the same decision, no matter where you are from. >> rose: but it is about survival. >> it's about what human beings will do to survive. >> rose: you chose not to act in this play even though you have a highly publi sided acting career. rose: why didn't you put yourself in it? >> my artistic mandate from the beginning was really quite simple. it was about number one telling african women stories and putting them on the american

stage and in as many stages as would take them. number two it was giving women of african desent opportunities because i could see there was a dirt in that area and it was frustrating to myself and the amazing talent i saw around me all the time. my first play in the continueium i did coperform and i knew that the next thing, this was the next play i wrote. and i knew that it was very clear to me i wanted to be outside of it i wanted to have the outside eye and take care of a world of itself, if i'm performing, my brain is working in a whole other way because i'm focusing on the arc of a character. if i'm stepping out and being the creator, i'm allowing myself to simply focus on everything and every one and creating a coheesive world with several characters versus just myself and the cocreator of my last play. so it was very important to me, actually, that this play was where i step into being that other type of playwright, not the playwright who always performs but the playwright without doesn't perform and who hands it over to performers that you have worked with to allow

them to let it blossom and bloom. >> was it your decision to have only a female cast. >> of course it was. yeah, of course. >> rose: i thought you might be going to say no, we had a group discussion. no, we didn't. you created it and you just said. >> yeah, no. >> rose: you had the commander there but his presence is not seen. >> it was very important to me. what propelled me to create the play was the idea that i could not see the stories of women in war on the continent or anywhere, really. i knew tons of stories of men. there was no place i saw that story. i so you tons of war lords we all knee who charles taylor is, but i couldn't name the women i now name. i couldn't name those women until i went to liberia an said amy-- i'm going to learn your stories so i can tell them to the world. >> rose: ands story is as timely as today at this moment in wars. >> unfortunately, what is happening in syria is

devastating. >> rose: boko haram, and what they are doing. >> right, exactly. the boko haram issue, totally, we are coming up on the two year anniversary this week of those girls still being in a state of abduction and in a similar state to what you see in that stage. >> rose: who is the girl. >> the girl is new to this world of war. she's just newly been exposed to it. recently lost her parents and she comes to this compound to learn what it means to be a woman at war. she starts off with a lot of agency and goes on to immediately lose it and her journey is one of trying to get back her agency and trying to find herself again. >> rose: and she is different from the other women in the play. >> yes, she's different because she has come from a city. she is some what educated as well. and she, until recently knew exactly where her parents were.

you know. >> rose: yet they want to protect her. >> they do. they do want to protect her. while one in particular, number one, the mat ree arc of this compound-- matriach of this compound wants to protect her from what she knows the war can do to a woman and to her body. but unfortunately, very soon when the play starts she's unable to do this. >> rose: this is what you told "the new york times." what attracted me to both projects was the agency of those characters, at first glass they look like victims but the writing offers complexity, they are deep, they have likes, strong dislikes, needs, fears and as an actor i'm always looking for that. this is what you two have done. this is what you have brought. you have given humanity to people that we didn't know. you have given a sense that they are real and human and while they are suffering. >> well, yeah, the goal is, having grown up on the couldn't konlt nent as we all did, coming

to the united states for me, it was very, very frustrating. all three of us. it was a frustrating thing to see how africans are often depicted it is a very statistical depiction. having grown up there, we have seen very, very complex, interesting, driven fascinating human beings. >> rose: like everybody else. >> like everybody else. but they don't get that portrayal in the west. so that's always been the goal as each of us create in our different ways to, you know, for me as a writer, it's always the goal to create characters that you might see this girl as a victim because that's what you hear on the news. but i'm actually going to give you two hours to spend with her in her mind, thoughts and experiences, in her fears and in her joys so that you can't walk away and call her the other ever again. you have to realize that there is a very innate connection. >> an she has strength and potential. the title of being eclipsed means you are blocking light. but the light is still there it's just being blocked.

and the hope is that it's temporary. the blockage leaves and you see the light once again. >> rose: what is the exal eng for the director? >> there isn't a challenge for the director. it's just joy. >> rose: the challenge is-- for me it is, it was the relentless pursuit of specificity. >> rose: specificity. >> so never stopping the research. so that the actors when they step on to that stage, they are bringing a broken heart for this country, for this history, for the political history. they are inhabiting the lives of these women and this particular war in this particular place, not a general african story but the story of liberia in this window of time. and also creating a healthy environment for the women, for these actresses to go as far as i-- we wanted them to go

emotionally. and be able to walk away. >> rose: how did you get them there. >> torture. by, you know, by basically just constantly pushing. >> rose: rehearsal, rehearsal, rehearsal. >> were you tortured? >> i wouldn't call it that. but i would just say, liesl creates an environment of pursuing your best at all times. the bar is high. and so you have to show up. you show up in the rehearsal and because the bar is so high, you are challenged to meet that bar. and that was what was so rivetting about being in that rehearsal room. there was never a day when we were just like pacing it out. every moment of rehearsal was a chance to discover something new, to ask questions and to explore. and so it was very exciting. and also exhausting rehearsal process. >> the analysis of what she does is really the thing that is so crucial for this play. is that you have to find a space where you are vulnerable but you also have to be pushed to the

edge and become very, and allow this environment to become quite dangerous and alive. liesl creates an environment where she doesn't let people off the hook. where she does challenge them. but she also allowed them to feel extremely safe. >> rose: is the staging and production of it, those elements changed much since 2009? >> yeah, it has. because i've grown as a director. and my visualize has deened and become i think more sophisticated. and so it has changed. i think that the design elements are-- it's just everything is sharper. >> rose: in and more precise. >> yes, always precise. >> rose: in is what you said. and you said that i think both the walking dead and eclipsed ironically ask the same question. who would you be if the world got this dire. who would you be. >> right, right. >> because i mean what i really want people to walk away from also when they leave the theater

is the concept of not being able to judge. a lot of the time when you funk in the world as an african in the west you deal with people coming up to you and throwing horrible thoughts about what they are hearing in africa, what's happening. people are doing this. people do that am and you're like the context is not actually something they're really taking too account. they're just taking like threads of a headline or something sensationalized. so the idea of putting people in the context. if you were in this war, you would become someone different from who you are today. there's no way you're going to be who you are when things are stable and everything works right and you can dial 911. you're going to become someone different when those things go away. >> rose: what is different. what do you become? >> that's the question. that's why there are five different women on the stage who represent five very different types of responses. they all are coping differently. they're navigating differently. they're pursuing their power differently. so i always argue that. >> they're preserving

themselves. >> rose: what is their power. >> their power is their able to stay alive. >> rose: to survive. >> invasion. >> right. >> they're choosing their life. they're choosing to live. they're choosing to survive. that is another thing i find frustrating when i see how africans are depicted often, sometimes even in media but also sometimes in narrative where you don't see them make choices. you don't see them actually have any sort of inner drive or strength or perspective or idiosyncracy. you just see them kind of be one or two dimensional victims. so of course we're working against that by allowing these characters to have personality and to respond differently to the exact same circumstances. >> rose: do you believe that you are changing and other things are changing whether it's hamilton or other plays that are on broadway, changing the perception of africans an african-americans? and their role in history? >> well, i can't say yes, i'm doing that. but i can say i hope so.

i hope i'm contributing to tha. >> rose: one of your actors said they call it chocolate bloc. >> nice. yeah, why not. but yeah, i mean why not. it is time-- . >> rose: why did you say that. >> because pass kal raymond, if you see the show, all of-- there is so much humor, so much life. >> rose: it to be her. >> she is the source of a lot of shenanigans. >> rose: yeah. >> i would say it is an exciting moment. you see, you look at lupita what she has accomplished in such a short amount of time and how her voice carries. it is a beautiful thing it is unprecedented and slg that i believe will keep happening. and that is really exciting. >> rose: you have been we seiged with all kinds of offers, i assume. you are everywhere, there is a huge amount of attention to you in fashion, in commercials, and i assume in all the films that you are offered. what did this mean to you? why this role? >> well. >> rose: even though you had a connection to it way back at

yale in 2009. >> it's a role that just never left me. i saw liesl and danai bring this show to life at yale. and i was so pleasantly surprised that first of all i would have the opportunity to see such a production happen at yale. one of the things that i had been washed about coming to drama school in the united states and specifically yale is how your centric my program would be. and the first thing that gets offered to me is a play set in africa. you know. and so for me that danai exists at the same time as i do, and she's telling these stories that are complex, that are compelling, that open up this liberian country to the world, i didn't know anything about liberia myself. so how much i learned from the emotional experience of seeing her play. i just thought it was a blessing. and i wanted to share it with a larger world. and i remember promising myself

that i would show, some day do it. and so when 12 years a slave happened and my life went into-- like, accelerated, i sat with myself and thought what do i want to do next. what do i want to do next. and "eclipsed" just kept coming back. something about telling a story on stage that is so powerful that i just needed to get back there, to remind myself what is this thing that i do. and how is it that i have gotten to this place. and what can i do to get this story out there. and so yeah, that's how. >> rose: what is different between the public and broadway? >> i actually think that because the public was a smaller space. and the golden is a much bigger house. in a way, we opened up the story, it's funnier. i think that we worked with the actresses to just make it more accessible in some ways to the not downtown audience.

but i also think in terms of dt see-- design, you have a chance to kind of experience the story in a more epic way because we have more physical space. >> rose: and more epic way. >> yeah. so it's not just about these four men in a compound. it's also you get a sense of breathed. so it's also about war. >> i will say for my perspective that the show feels more dangerous. because there is more room for you to fill as an actor. and so there's just, and because there's more people in the room, you have to work that a much harder to get them all on the same page with you. so it felt like for me, my performance had to like break open. it was no longer the intimacy of hearing the little sigh on the side from the audience. now i have to work to reach them. and get them to reach me. >> rose: so what happens on

june 20th? doesn't it close on june 19th. >> the actors go on a long vacation, yes. cuz they do work extraordinarily hard. >> will you do a movie right after that. >> no, please. vacation. i think i will need, i will require some time off. >> rose: a vacation. >> yes. >> they are-- . >> rose: and you? >> well, i-- i wouldn't know. i will probably be in zombieland. i will probably be in atlanta. but you know-- . >> rose: as good as that is and as popular as that is, my sefns you is you would not be satisfied with that as your primary total creative endeavor. >> well, i mean, at the end of the day i am a story teller. and i love telling story in whatever way i can. and the walking dead is something that i didn't take randomly. i looked at the story. i looked at the character.

i looked at the world. i watched what they had already done on the screen and i was deeply interested and deeply desirous of becoming a part of it. id a few times is that thereve was this interesting parallel between that character and one of the characters that i had created in this play. who had not lupita's character but another character, who is really a woman soldier, who makes herself her own weapon to combat this war zone, this hostile environment. and that's who this character in the walking dead was. so when i came across her, this is after i had written it, i said what is this. this looks like mama. and so the connection i feel in the sense where i said it's the same premise, i do feel it's a very rich story that i get to tell every week on television. so it is something deeply, deeply, deeply dear to me, as is-- as are the plays i write which of course are all my children. >> rose: and where are you going? >> well, i am working on a project for disney right now in

california. and. >> rose: a movie? >> no, it's an adaptation of the movie frozen. >> rose: oh, yes, i heard about that. >> and-- . >> rose: no about frozen but that disney was doing this and you were doing it. >> yes, so that's the next big project, current project. >> rose: i vn seen he clipszed yet but i look forward to coming before june. >> you must. you must see lupita do what she does because it's deeply, deeply, deeply special. >> rose: congratulations. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> thanks for having us. >> rose: eclipsed, june 19th at the goldwin theater, until june 19th go see it back in a moment. stay with us. >> you know to sit here on this stage, richard rogers theater. >> what does it mean to you? >> they are hallowed places, these broadway house, guys & dolls premiered here, 1776

premiered here when it was called the 46th street theater. and i am very aware of the ghosts. i'm very aware of the history that we, like this earth, we only get to borrow it for a little while. and you know, my broadway debut was on this stage with "in the heights." so to-- it was amazing to do the show for the first time here. and say oh wait, i know this house. i've been here before. but to be here with, you know, the latest story i've spebt my life working on, was really both disorienting and intimate. you know, the relationship with the crowd as you can see, it's a steep rake. it's the steepest rake on broadway. i can look people in the eye here, 14 rows back and paradoxically even though the theater at the public was smaller, this feels more intimate to me. >> rose: wow. >> and you had a chance to choose. >> yeah. >> rose: where you would go.

>> this was our dream theater and it luckily opened up sort of right before we came in. >> rose: has it sunk in, what's happening to you, what's happening to theater? what's happening to hamilton? >> i'm talking to charlie rose in the middle of the richard rogers theater, so it's starting to sink in. it's really surreal. but you know, we really haven't stopped. the moment we opened, we started recording the cast album. and atlantic has been very generous in terms of, we're taking two weeks to record it. most cast albums get recorded in a day. and we took our time to really get it right. my colleagues are mastering it as we speak. and so we have been going full boar-- there's always been something to occupy our time. so i haven't really had a break since we opened. >> rose: and really haven't had time to reflect. >> no, not really. that's also a part of what

twitter is. it's as close to a diary as can you believe this happened. and catching it while-- while it happens. because i will be-- . >> rose: or guess who was in the audience today. >> yeah, yeah. >> rose: the president of the united states. >> at our sixth preview,. >> rose: the vice president of the united states. >> yes. it's amazing it is amazing. you know, you have the dream version of what will happen if you write something well. and this has-- it's put my dreams to shame. >> rose: exactly. >> if you dream too small. >> rose: it's huge, beyond dream. >> it is so humbling. >> rose: beyond. >> it's super, superhumbling. and when you list those bold faced names that have come to see the show, i see those as an opportunity to see the show with fresh eyes while i'm doing it. i think when dick cheney is sitting in the audience, i think what is he thinking when he hears the lyric history has its eyes on me. when the president is here what

is he thinking as he sees george washington say, i have to step down so the country can move on. as he faces the end of his term. it is-- it gives me a new chance at a new res onance with the show. and that's-- you know, the challenge of doing-- . >> rose: do you look them in the eye. do you let them know i see you. >> if i can spot them. if i can spot them, i sure do. you know, we had oh gosh, who did we have? we had common here, common one of my favorite rappers. >> rose: oh boy. >> and when we started ten dual commandments a looked right him. i said someone's going to get this reference. it's going to be common. this thing is such a love letter in hip-hop when there is musical theater references, you know, we do a reference to a musical called the last five years by jason robert brown. at the end of the reynolds affair, he goes nobody needs to know. which is the hook of the

infidelity song in last five years and when jason robert brown came to the show, i looked right at him. you know, he kindly gave me his permission to use that song, that reference in the show. so it's a treat when the people who will appreciate it are in the audience. >> rose: but it's not only good acting. it is not only good music, people are saying it's transform tiff. >> well, that's interesting to me. it's certainly changes my life. but i think it's because when great people cross our path, and i'm talking about hamilton here, it forces us to reckon with what we are doing with our lives, you know? at my age hall-- hall il ton, treasury secretary creating our financial system from scratch. >> rose: and building a country. >> i wrote two plays. i am not doing anything. >> rose: it makes you feel. >> and we ask the question a lot in the show.

who lives, who dies, who tells your story. and what are we going to leave behind. and i think people leave the show thinking about that. with their own lives. you can't help but let it into your own life. >> rose: it also makes people think about their history. >> yeah. >> rose: their history. >> absolutely. >> rose: their country. >> yeah. >> rose: you know. and it gives them a new sense of what, an awareness of the dine mism-- dynamism, the genius that came to build a nation. >> the genius, but also i think we take great pains to knock all these guys off their pedestals. >> rose: yeah, you do. >> this is washington, impatient and yelling, are these the men with which i amo defend america. which he did as he was-- that is a quote. this jefferson and hamilton squabbling. and i think we're heartened by that, because these guys didn't get tablets of stone on a mountain top. they compromised, they made mistakes. their fights led to press dense and i think it's an important

reminder that they were as human as us and as plawed as-- flawed as us. >> rose: and they had no play book. >> they had models they were looking to. >> rose: jefferson particularly. >> inspired by the french. and hamilton, inspired by the british financial system. and so, and that turned into fights, that turned into you're trying to bring back the monday arcky. you are obsessed with blood shed and revolution. but it's nice to know they're flawed because our country is flawed and we're flawed. and we take steps forward and we take steps back to that more perfect union which is, what a beautiful phrase that is. >> rose: and like writing great songs it doesn't happen overnight. >> no, we're still struggling with it. and i think it's-- i think the audience takes away a sense of oh, we've always been making it up as we go along. and i think for them to see themselves in the founding fathers is both empowering and dawnting. are you empowered because you're like oh, this guy is just like me.

but you also think wow, look at what they got done. what am i getting done? >> rose: why does it resonate, for all the reasons we talked about, but sitting out there, what are you feeling? what are you-- why does it touch you so much more than anything anybody else can think, not just critics. not just famous people. >> yeah. >> rose: real people. >> yeah. most of that is the work of tommee cale. these are words on a page. >> rose: you put the words on the page. >> i put the words on the page but there are a lot of steps between the words on the page and a production like this. and tommy, you know, he has kept his eye on everything. and created an unbelievably unified production where everyone is marching in the same direction. and created those moments that we talked about, where you are chasing that moment where you are both watching something and

can't believe you're watching it. and tommy created a bunch of those moments in this show. and he gets the credit for that because it's a lot of elements coming together to make that happen. and i think the force of hamilton's life which is this whirlwind through the life of everyone that he touched, now extends to the aid yens. now he's touched your life too. and he's touched my life. >> rose: that's true. >> and we see where he started and where he got and where he fell. and that's impossible not to be moved by that kind of a story. we all aspire to do great things. >> rose: did you ever imagine what might have been if he hadn't taken that bullet? >> yeah, well-- you know, you study the brain with world renowned experts. you talk to scientists so you know there is this theory of the multiversz, right? and there are an infinite number of universes sitting side-by-side. so there is a universe in which hamilton lived to his the

0-- 90st and our country looked very different. >> rose: why did you go on a vacation and stop and see a book that changes your life? >> pretty lucky. and luck is a big part of this too. >> rose: always is. >> but i was at a book store. >> rose: luck and timing. >> i wanted a big long book. i knew that hamilton, this is what i knew from high scoosm i knew hamilton died in a dual with the vice president. i knew he was on the $10 bill. i knew his son had died in a dual. i learned, i wrote a school paper about it. for 7th, 11th grade social studies. so i knew that he was-- i kind of wanted to know his mindset going into the dual. that's all i knew when i picked up the book. and i also read the incredible reviews for ron's book on the back, and inside. and i said okay, this is going to be a good version of this story. but really, i just was browsing the biography section it could have been trueman-- truman.

>> rose: and as you read it, what happened? >> i was thunder struck. i had the notion-- i got to the part where you know, a hurricane destroys st. croix where hamilton is living. he's an orphan at this point and working as a clerk. and he writes a poem about the carnage that this hurricane had left on this island and this poem gets him off the island. >> rose: it's his ticket. >> people say this is a talented young man. and he shouldn't be a clerk, he should be going to get his degree in medicine, actually. they said go get your degree in medicine, come back and be a doctor. and took up a collection to send him to the mainland. and the world was never the same. >> rose: so he had even then a sense after that, people believed in him. >> yeah. >> rose: he had captured the confidence of people. >> yes. >> rose: at a very young age. >> the first letter we have from hamilton is a letter to a friend named ned stevens.

and he says i know it may be said that i am building castles in the air. he is ashamed of his own ambition and i pray you'll conceal it. but we have seen such schemes successful when the projector is constant. i shall conclude by saying that i wish there was a war. so we get all of his ambition in two sentences, right? i know it's crazy that i want to get out of here and i want to build a better life. but it's worked for people before. and it could work for me if i don't stop, if the projector is done stant-- con stafnlt i shall conclude by saying i wish there was a war, which means i'm broke. i need to fight in a war in order to make my bones an gain myself a reputation. >> rose: and have the life i want to have. >> and have the life i want to have. >> rose: the idea of hip-hop came as what moment? >> when he wrote that poem and got himself off the island. >> rose: that's when. >> yeah. >> you saw that in him.

>> yeah. >> rose: you saw a rap artist in him. >> i drew a direct line between hamilton writing his way out of his circumstances, and the rapper's i had grown up adoring. >> rose: they wrote themselves out of circumstances. >> yes, but they also wrote about their circumstances. which is what hamilton did. you know, it's a little writing katrina and the government not doing enough. big-e and jay z writing about grouching up in the projects, it's eminem growing up white in detroit. writing about that struggle and paradoxically, your writing being so good it gets you out. >> rose: so when you read that and you learned about hamilton, you just. >> yeah. you know. >> rose: deep inside of me is the form that he would have. >> right. and also, you know, in that introduction of the book you realize hamilton wrote his way to everything. his writing was the key to everything.

>> rose: you finished the book during vacation. >> yup. >> rose: an you had to meet the author. >> i did. i did i wanted to talk about this with him. i wanted to-- i felt like hi such a clear picture of who hamilton was when i finished reading that book that i wanted to talk to the author, talk to ron and say, hey, we're seeing the same guy here, right? >> rose: yeah. was this whole thing that we see every night, six nights a week, on this stage, what was already germ naturing when you went to talk to ron? >> yes. it was starting to. i was thinking of it as an album first. but even that was a musical theater precedent because i was think being jesus christ superstar and how it began as a concept album. >> right. >> and andrew lloyd webber wrote these amazing songs about the last days of jesus' life. and they were so good, you have to turn this into a show. that is what i was hoping to do with hamilton. i was going to make the album

first. and it turned into a show. >> rose: all of this is going on in your head. all these pobtds. i mean these characters. the characters, time. >> the hard part was i needed to do enough research to really be able to write about it well. and that's what historians learn. you can't just go with the stories that's in front of you. you've got to check your sources and you've got to go-- . >> rose: so you dived into research. >> i did. not just about hamilton, you know, ron's book was a great guide for that but research into bur, research into jefferson. and finding little things that was our insight. so i'm looking for the historical versions of those moments for my characters as i'm writing them. so for me, unlocking burr, there's a great biography by h-w brand called the heartbreak of aaron burr, about his relationship with his wife and daughter. slim volume. the other thing i learned was when he met his wife, she was married to a british officer. she was helping the

revolutionaries, they were staying in her house and he kind of stayed in touch with her. and their coresponse was like a year before her husband died in georgia, and then as soon as he died, like they were together. >> rose: burr was there. >> yeah, so this was a guy who waited for this officer to die before he could properly-- i was like okay, this guy is comfortable waiting for his moment. that was the key insight for me. i was like earnings, wow, even in matters of love. i understood he was politically cautious but even when it came to matters of his own heart, he said okay, this woman is the woman for me. i will wait to see what happened. circumstances will work out. >> rose: the kind of patience many people don't have. >> yeah. and in our show hamilton calls him out. if you love this woman, go get her, go fight for her. that is what i would do. and burr says no, i am going to wait. it will come to me. >> rose: and burr becomes your narrator. >> yes. >> rose: because you need what? >> i need several things.

i need-- for one i need balance. hamilton would be happy to nar rate his own story but he goes on too long. >> rose: in pars and paragraphs and brur has license to be succinct. and also burr is the mirror image of hamilton. he's also orphaned at a young age. he's also speeds through college, speeds through princeton at two years, starts at age 13. and. >> rose: just as smarted as hamilton. >> just as smart as hamilton. but every time hamilton says go, burr says stop. he's just cautious. the only difference between them is legacy. burr came from money. burr's feafer was the president of princeton. burr's grandfather was the famous preparer jonathan edwards and he's got all of his legacy and doesn't know what to do with it, in my version of him. and so he's very cautious. he's got money he's in the early

american arist october crassee. >> rose: when you got excited about hamilton, did you not necessarily know that much more about burr. is he everything that you need for dramatic tension. >> that's right, yes. it's tough because it's not linear, you know. hamilton's public scwawb el is with jefferson. most people would say jefferson is a bad guy, and jefferson should nar rate because those are the political fights. the fight with burr is one of temperment. so how do you dram advertise a difference in temperment, you know? i have a friend who gets mad about everything but our lives-- so i had to find that very certainly thing to figure out how to dram advertise it inalways show burr pausing, that was tricky. >> first of all, they're latino. >> they're everything.

>> sue who plays my wife, chinese american on that's on purpose. >> that that they're everything. >> yeah it's-- tommee said it so well that i just quote him, this is the story of american then told by america now. >> that's a great line. >> the story of america then, told by america now. >> that's right. >> we're america now. and this is what this country looks like. this is what our country looks like. simple as that. so we're allowed to tell the story. because it's the story of our country too. >> rose: what do you think it means to your actors. >> i have been told what it means to our actors. >> rose: you know your actors. >> i am with them every day. it's very moving. some of these actors i have known my entire adulthood some i just met when they auditioned for the show. and chris jackson and i, chris plays gorge washington, he's as much a history buff as i am, if

not more. so we're both west wing fanatics. so he, was dawnted by stepping too george washington's shoes because he knew everything that meant, and it represented. he had done his homework. he had read the biography of washington three or four times, big book. it was interesting to talked to daf ed who said i never felt like any of those stories were relevant to my life and my yup bringing. we grew up the story of the creation of this dri is our story too. >> what were you looking for in casting all this, you and tommy. >> people who could do it. that sounds simple but it's hard. >> why? >> because it's a ton of language. it's easier for to you do this show if you maybe have done a little shakespeare, maybe done a

little chekhov, than if you have done three musicals. >> because of the sheer abundance of language, and the piece. and so. >> it is shakespeare in terms of how much you can get. >> not in terms of quality n terms of-- in terms of quantity. >> quantity. >> within time. >> yeah, an density. these are packed sentenced. >> so you had to have somebody that could deliver. >> deliver and make it feel real and to a beat. >> that's hard. >> that's musical talents. >> thaws' musical talent and it also requires a degree of expertise in terms of acting craft to make this feel spon tanious because it is such heightened language. >> rose: costumes is another thing. >> absolutely. >> rose: how did you conceive that? >> i didn't. >> rose: okay. >> our genius paul did. >> rose: how did he conceive it. >> he had a lot of conversations with tommy.

cale and he said my nightmare version of this, and will speak to this, my nightmare version of this is sideways baseball caps and side tops and saying yo with the president. that's an outdated version of hip-hop that the mass market still likes to circulate as hip to it's much more interesting to create the tension between a period costume and contemporary language. and so they went-- . >> rose: the tension between a period costume and contemporary language. >> contemporary language. >> rose: the tension. >> the tension is compelling. and it's exciting. it's exciting to see someone dressed in a period-specific revolutionary war outfit, rapping faster than anybody. we're asking you to hold a lot of ideas in your head at the same time. and we're hopefully creating a unified aesthetic that allows you to get it all, and just let it all hang together as a piece. >> rose: but there are also in this piece references to south pacific. >> uh-huh, south pacific,

pirates of pen glans. >> what is that about, other than your brain. >> there's a lot of on-ramps in the show that is tommy's line too. there are a lot of on-ramps there are a lot of ways in, right. if you are scared of hip-hop or thought hip-hop cass not music for you, we're going to quote 1776 at you. we're going to quote south pacific at you. we're going to give you king george who sings a british invasion-style song from the '60s. >> rose: that is a show stopper too. >> it's a show stopper. and it is a breathe. it's a breathe where the lyrics slow down and we take our time. and it's to show we know how to write that kind of song. we're writing this kind of song. >> rose: is st written with comedy in mind. >> absolutely. yeah. you know, with king george i was thinking of king her odd in jesus christ superstarks i was thinking of the ther nardier who

provide much needed comedy relief in les miserables, without them it is a tough piece. what is interesting, and i didn't anticipate it when i was writing it, the king becomes the audience sur gate. as they watch this country being formed in front of their eyes and the king goes wait, you're really going to keep changing leaders? what are you going to do now that the war is over. >> rose: are you going to come back. >> you'll be back. he speaks to the country as if it was a girlfriend he didn't treat well. and it's really fun to watch the odd yengs take his-- . >> rose: what is your creative process. where are you when you write all this? what are you doing? >> what am i doing? >> rose: are you just sitting in an empty room. >> no, i'm never sitting in an empty room. >> rose: where are you? >> i'm sitting in a room, usually a cluttered desk, with a keyboard hooked up to my computer, and often what i did

with this show is i would write just enough music to get a loop. >> rose: i would get a loop of a beat that i like or you know, a four chord progression that i like. if i like it enough, i take it up to my ipod, take my dawk out for a walk. >> rose: and listen. >> and i listen to that on a loop and talk to myself in the park and my dog is superpatient. doesn't care that i am talking to myself in the parkment people think i'm crazy, fine by me. and i talk to myself. in the character, in the form of the character. this is after i have done the research and i know what the song needs to accomplish. i just talk to myself until it starts starts to fit. >> central question, alexander hamilton, what you knew about was dualing. >> yeah. >> tell me about hamilton though. and going into this. >> yeah. >> i mean he had a lunch date. >> yeah. >> it's early in the morning. >> from dawn they roll across to we hawkin at dawn.

>> why do you think he threw away his shot. why do you think. and do you believe that or is it simply something that makes your play. >> what i came to was i'm less interested in the who did what, as i am what will hamilton's final thoughts. what was going through his head face wdz his once friend, now enemy. on the field. the sun is rising over manhattan. >> rose: in new jersey. >> yeah, the sun is rising over manhattan and we've got guns in our hands. and we're facing each other in a field. what does he think about in those final moments. i think he's probably thinking about the steps that got him here and his disagreements with burr. he writes in the letter before the deul, he said there was no way this could have been avoided. we've been circling each other for awhile. it was always going to come to this. and that was a big clue, was oh, his disagreements with burr are not the choice of words at a dinner party.

>> rose: this was going to happen. >> this was going to happen. they're fundamentally different men. >> rose: does he sing that? >> yeah. and what-- . >> rose: does he ever say, this was going to happen. i was coming to this moment. >> and i have him say it when he's 19 and gets to new york and in his final moments am i imagine death so much it feels more like a memory. this is where it gets me, on my feet, several feet ahead of me. if i see it coming, do i run or fire my gun or let it be. there is no beat, no melody. you know, i have think think being what those final moments are, because es aware of it as a young child. and so when it finally comes, it is actually quiet it is our only moment of quiet in the show. the only time we don't have a beat going. the only time we don't have any instruments. all you hearsay little wind and it's hamilton alone with his thoughts, as this bullet is coming towards him. and it's the last thing i wrote for the show. i had been writing song moment,

song moment after song moment like what does it sound like, what is the song. i had written a draft called in the time it takes a bull tot leave the gun, and it was very exciting and then i said it was actually earned silence. >> rose: i like it better. >> yeah, i like it better too. >> rose: because it is the moment. >> yeah, that's the moment. and i think that's what we hear in those final moments. we hear silence. >> rose: in his last words were? >> i done remember his last words. ron will know. but he died with his whole family by his side. it took him a day to die. and angelica was there. she was in new york at the time. he liza was there, his children were there, wailing. >> rose: wailing. >> yeah. he died at a friend's house on madeen lane. >> rose: how long after the bullet entered. >> about 24 hours after. he suffered and died slow. >> rose: can i just talk about, i mean, it is powerful.

the song, do you have favorites? >> are those that, if i just have to say, i just wrote this. >> i will tell you the creation of one of-- you know sometimes a line enters your head and you're so grateful for it, you go online to see if anybody wrote it before you. you must have stolen it. that was true of burr's song wait for it. which the hook came to me of a piece-- i was on my way to a friend's birthday party in brooklyn and i was listening to my loop on the train. and it came to me death doesn't discriminate between the sinners and the saints, it takes, it takes and it takes. we keep living anyway, we rise and we fall and we break and we make our mistakes. and if there's a reason i'm still alive, and everyone who loves me has died, i'm willing to wait for it.

that came in one giant lump on the train to brooklyn. and i went to my friend's party and i said happy birthday, have i to go home and finish writing this song. and i got back on the train and wrote it on the way home. couldn't wait. couldn't wait. >> rose: how about room where it happened. >> room where it happens was the toughest jig saw puzzle have i ever done. it was i'm both trying to explain, it was very complicated exriemsz that happened behind closed doors, and what makes it exciting in the context of our story is we're telling it from the per spisk of the one guy who wasn't there. aaron burr. he says these guys traded away the capitol of our country in exchange for anus unprecedented financial plan t all happened over a dinner that none of us were at. none of us had any say in the decision. >> rose: the room where it happened. >> the room where it happened. and so it is jefferson's side of the story. it's madison's side of the story. madison is in congress an everyone is like the capitol

should be here, the capitol should be here. and he is saying oh, well, he says to jefferson in our song, maybe we can solve one problem with another. and when the victory for the-- in other words, oh ho, jefferson wouldn't you like to work a little closer to home. so it's two virnlgians plotting on how to get the capitol closer to where they are. >> rose: to washington rather than new york. >> yeah. wash done doesn't exist yet, potomac. >> rose: virginia. other songs there, i mean what is it you want to-- what is it that you think will be most remembered. >> i can't begin to pretend to know. i know that-- . >> rose:ed opening number. >> the opening number i was very proud of having written that song. and what it captured rrs satisfaction. >> satisfied, we said. >> rose: satisfied. >> wait for it, wait for it was a big one for me.

because that hook is burr's but that's how i feel. that looks pretty-- you know, we don't know why some of us live and some of us die. and why some of us are born but you know, are lucky enough to be born where we are and have access to health care and incredible life and some of us are born in parts of the world where none of that is guaranteed. and if there's a reason, is there a reason why we are born where we are. or grow up where we are. and if there is a reason, burr says i'm going to wait for what that reason is to prevent it and hamilton says nothing's promised. i'm going to grab everything i can while i can. >> rose: are you burr or are you hamilton? >> i'm both. we're all both. that's the whole thing. i think that there are moments in our life when we step up and we take the risk when it's easier to stay home.

you know, you go sing 16 bars of hamilton at the white house when you could have sung a song you already know. that is the hamilton in me. took me six years to get the show to broadway. that's the burr in me. that's the-- . >> rose: it took you that long to get it right. >> yait, yeah. >> rose: and we could have moved to broadway last season. but we disn. we knew we had another chance to make the show better. and that's what we were aiming for, to make the best show possible. and so that's the wait for it that's the burr. >> rose: in a moment of self-definition, are you writer. >> yes. you don't have to finish that. i'm a writer. i am an act tore get my writing done. i see writing and acting as the same thing. have i to inhabit those characters and play them as fully as i can. then i write down what they say. that's as simple as it is and as complicated as it is.

>> rose: and the genius is writing. >> here's the thing. if you write about geniuses, they confuse you with one. that's how i feel about hamilton. i'm writing about a genius. don't get it twisted. i'm no genius but i'm writing and have i to write from his perspective so it looks close to the same thing. >> rose: for more about this program and earlier episodes visit us online at pbs.org and charlie rose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

>> funding for charlie rose is provided by the following: am by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services world wide.

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