>> rose: welcome to the program. we begin this evening with politics and talk to dan senor and al hunt. >> i think the nominee will be either donald trump or ted cruz. i think in the very unlikely event they were to turn to someone else, though, i think john kasich's case is much stronger than marco rubio's or in scott walker's. i mean, he has contested, though as dna says he hasn't won. i think the odds are 98 or 99% that it will be trump or cruz. i think if the nomination goes to ted cruz, i don't think donald trump is going to be a lofty loser. >> rose: we conclude this evening with anderson cooper of cnn and his mother gloria vanderbilt. they have written a remarkable book between mother and son called "the rainbow comes and

goes" and there is also a new document about them called nothing left unsaid. >> on her 91st birthday she sent me an email and it was funny and sharp and interesting. it got me thinking, when my dad died when he was 10, i had a fantasy that he left me a letter that would show up when i turned 20 and would tell me about everything i didn't know about him and his life and my mother had the same fantasy about her father who died when she was an infant. i didn't want that to happen with my mom and anything left unsaid between us. we did it over email because it was easier and i travel so much. i wanted to change the conversation between us and get to know each other as adults and in a whole new way and it really has changed not only our relationship but even my understanding of myself. >> rose: dan senor and al

hunt, anderson cooper and gloria vanderbilt when we continue. >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by the following: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: we begin this evening again with politics. house speaker paul ryan ruled out a 2016 presidential build at a press conference earlier today. the announcement comes after weeks of speculation that he would accept the nomination at a contested republican convention. addressing the republican national committee, speaker ryan said delegates should choose

someone who participated in the primaries. count me out. i simply believe that if you want to be the nominee for our party to be the president, you should actually run for it. i chose not to do this, therefore i should not be considered, period, end of story. >> rose: joining me from washington is al hunt of bloomberbloombergview, dan senor political advisor to mitt romney and co-founder of foreign policy initiative. he and paul ryan are friends. al, why did he said that today and does he mean it if, in fact, the republican party came to him and said you've got to do this for the sake of the party and for the sake of the country? >> charlie, he does mean it. he did it today not as news but as a confirmation of what he believes is reality, and he thought, as i understand it, that it was getting to the point where it was becoming the -- the

speculation was becoming injurious because here was this big shot in washington who was going to try to steal the convention away from someone and probably not helping him in his day job which is speaker of the house. i think paul ryan was absolutely right today, it is virtually impossible for someone who did not run to be nominated. i think it could go to four, five, six ballots, i don't know that it will, but i still think the nominee will be one of the three. more importantly, that's what paul ryan believes. i think he was quite sincere today and he thinks the chances to have convention turning to him are virtually nil. >> rose: and he would say no if they do. is that what i'm hearing him saying? >> i don't know. i sound like i'm evading the question. >> rose: you are. because i don't know the answer. >> rose: if nominated, i will not run.

if elected, i will not serve. it's that easy. >> can't get more sherman than that, can you? >> rose: you know this guy. you know where he is. he said he wasn't running to be speaker of the house. the party needed him and he took it. he's also a man of ambition, politics and policy, all of that. tell me what you know about how he approached this and what he means. >> well, first of all, if you look at his career, he's been a very successful player at the elite level of american politics and republican politics, but he came up the ranks, he's a grassroots guy. jamesville, wisconsin, that's very much who he is and where he's from, he's connected to that political committee. he has a network in jamesville. he believes the politics matter. ther17 candidates ran for presi.

think of the tens of thousands overvolunteers involved in those campaigns across the country, supporters, archivisterses, it's not right at the end of this year and a half, two-year process that we say all of your work, the candidates, donors, activists, volunteers, all of it is being muted and we're going to parachute a new candidate. he thought there was something fundamentally wrong with that. secondly, he thinks this political environment is incredibly volatile and is concerned house republicans could be collateral damage in this chaotic political environment we're living through depending on who the top of the ticket is and the last thing he wants to do is inject more volatility by leaving open the option someone could parachute in the eleventh hour. >> rose: we've talked to several republicans and several minds, one is the party must be saved and they're prepared to lose the election to save the

party. >> meaning let the whole thing burn down -- >> rose: no, let one of the two candidates most likely to be the nominee, ted cruz or donald trump, if they run the party will lose. >> if either trump or cruz is the nominee, i think we'll probably lose, definitely the case with trump. >> rose: if cruz is, likely to lose. >> likely to lose. i could make a case, depending on his runningmate and hillary, not as positive as if trump is the nominee. if trump is the nominee, we lose the senate, say goodbye to many republicans. i think of trump as the nominee. the map for the democrats could expand. john mccain could be in trouble in arizona and richard burk could be in trouble. we could lose a lot of seats. paul ryan said when he agreed to become the speaker, he was going

to build the policy and communications program for the republicans and raise a lot of money. he raised far more money for house republicans than anyone expected and those numbers will come out soon, so he built an infrastructure for republicans to be competitive which is almost like an insurance policy depending on the top of the ticket, because it could be a terrible top of the ticket and he wants to make sure republicans hang on to the majority. >> rose: what was his specific language? >> he definitely would not do it, no way. here's the key point he had not made before as clearly as today. >> rose: that's why i'm asking. >> the key point he said today was a message to the delegates. he was not only saying i won't do this, he's saying you should not select someone who did not run. he's not only taking himself out of it, but he's being so sweeping and declarative he's taking all these white knight scenarios out of it. >> rose: so choices for republicans john kasich, ted cruz or donald trump.

>> or in a multi-balance situation, say donald trump wins -- can't get 1237 on first ballot and goes to the second. ted cruz can't. then you're on the fifth, sixth seventh ballot. you could see candidates who pulled out reemerging. scott walker. you could see someone liked by the grassroots and conservatives, who's had a good moment recently, scott walker is seen as key in helping ted cruz, it could be a reemergence of one of those candidates. ryan's key point is it can't be someone who had skin in the game. all the other candidates had skin in the game. >> rose: what do you think about that, albert? >> made another subtle key point which said if no candidate wins on the first ballot, it goes to someone who had run.

the donald trump view said if i finish ahead of everybody else, it ought to go to me. you talk about the future of the party and where paul ryan is, there is a schism that is so profound between the rank and file voters this year who have voted for donal trump and cruz d paul ryan's brand of conservatism. on issues like immigration, trade and budget. >> rose: the war on poverty. yan has more in common with obama than trump. >> rose: on poverty. he is specifically after the 2012 election, he expended an enormous amount of time and resources on developing a re-think, a real reform program for how we can turn around a lot of our war on poverty programs and he's dedicated enormous staff resources to this. he's very committed to it. that's what he wants to be talking about. he wants to talk about tissues he thinks should be about the future and the inclusiveness of the republican party. it has been a real struggle for

him watching the chaos of this primary process play out -- >> rose: when he thinks his party is being damaged. >> and watching the ideas he cares about being subordinated to madness. >> charlie, one challenge he has is, for two or three years now, paul ryan promised an alternative to obamacare. me has not delivered on it. the goalposts keep moving and if he really want to talk about an alternative republican agenda h he has to -- he has to at least start there. it's fine to talk about poverty and i give him credit for being sincere on that, but at some point you have to deliver on specifics. as smart as the speaker may be, he hasn't done that on issues like obamacare. >> rose: why is not? first of all, he's very committed to specifics on policy. his medicare proposal was very specific. critics would argue on the right specific to a fault. it opened him up to be such a

big target because he was so specific. on poverty, he's very specific. on obamacare, he is the leader in one house, mitch mcconnell is the leader in the senate. paul i think feels more strongly that republicans need to put forth an obamacare alternative than some running for reelection in the senate do because i think it exposes them. i think he also believes that you have to do it with the presidential candidate, with the republican candidate, really a comprehensive alternative. he's worked on it, got a lot of views of healthcare on it, he's worked with a lot of people on it and depending on who the nominee is you will see something. >> dan, obamacare passed six years ago. as someone said in a convention once, how long, oh, lord, how long? six years without an alternative is a long time. >> paul put forth many proposals on reform on healthcare.

your question is why isn't there a comprehensive republican alternative everyone's bought into? >> he ought to remalaysia it. has not been the leader of the house till a few months ago, so he could put forth proposals but he wasn't running the show and didn't have control of the senate. for the first time now i think he's in a position the advance some of the ideas he has been talking about. >> dan, he was the chairman of the house committee on ways and means which is where healthcare began. he's been in a position to do that for years, i like him but -- >> and he and others were in leadership positions, people i like and respect, were not as passionate about this issue as he was. it was difficult put forth a comprehensive republican alternative. >> rose: suppose going into this contested convention, donald trump has less than 1237 and somehow the nomination goes toll ted cruz or john kasich. does kasich have a chance?

>> i don't see how he does. his whole rationale -- >> rose: electability? electability. it's hard to make the case for electability if you're not getting elected anywhere. >> rose: in your own party. he's won his own state but nowhere else. he's got no organization. he's got no real, you know, national media strategy. i just -- where is he? i mean, i like kasich. he's a very accomplished man, but it's hard to make the case that i'm the only guy who can beat hillary clinton. i can't win anything in my own party over a period of almost ten, eleven months. >> rose: i remind you also, but there are some cases historically, one is jack kennedy said if nelson rockefeller could have gotten the nomination, he could have beaten him, kennedy's assessment in 1960. somebody who can get the nomination for a lot of reasons but who may be a mod racing

force can win elections even though they're not the favorite of the party because party conventions and primaries are controlled by extremes within the party. >> i think his case for electability is weak. i think the case in jen for electability doesn't have much purchase. i think most parties who vote and parts paid penn state are motivated by issues, ideas, philosophical principals, not by strategy. they don't sit there with a chess board and say well i disagree with him on this, this and this but i think he could do this and in the general election that, they're motivated by ideas and leadership and you can't lay out the math and explain how to win if there is no excitement. >> rose: let's assume somebody has to have been in the race whether they're still in it or not. if the nomination goes to somebody else, what is donald trump likely to do? >> oh, create as much trouble as

he possibly can. donald trump doesn't care about the republican party. donald trump cares about one thing, donald trump, and i think he won't take it lying down, he'll just create all kinds of chaos. i think the nominee will be either donald trump or ted cruz. i think in the very unlikely event they were to turn to someone else, though, i think john kasicjohn kasich's case isr than marco rubio or scott walker's. he has contested though as dan says he hasn't won. but i think the odds are 98, 99% that it will be trump or cruz and if it goes to ted cruz, i don't think donald trump is going to be a lofty loser. >> yeah, i don't think marco rubio is going to get back in the race but i think he has more delegates than kasich and he's been out for several months. he's won more states than kasich. >> yeah, but that'll change.

it's taken a long time to change and, again, i'm not making the case for rubio. i'm simply saying kasich losing over a very long time and basically saying i'm going to hang around to emerge at the convention is probably not going to work, a. b, i think the growing frustration with kasich as a spoiler is a big problem for him. if you look at any congressional district or state that has a winner take all delegate allotment system, with kasich and cruz in the race splitting the anti-trump vote, it enables donald trump to win the states or districts with 39 to 40% to have the vote. if most of the anti-trump votes consolidate between one alternative, trump wouldn't win, but trump has the potential -- california, every congressional district in the state allots its delegates based on winner take all. so trump could win all the delegates in california with

30-plus percent. >> no, if john kasich dropped out, donald trump would get 95 votes in new york, sweep new york. right now what should happen, kasich and cruz should collude. they should divide up some. that's the only way they'll stop trump. the same thing is true in connecticut, maryland. those would be -- right now the goal of cruz and of kasich has to be to stop trump from gaining 1237. it's better to do that in a three-way field where they pick and choose their targets right now. at some point, cruz wants to go head to head in some states, maybe indiana, but not right now. >> rose: i agree increasing the denominator is important. if we get more people to vote, it increases the likelihood trump stays below 50% in new york so i'm all for that. i also believe and have seen polling to back this up that in

some cases by a two to one margin, kasich voters go to cruz if kasich is not in the race, because they are freaked out by donald trump, not excited by ted cruz. so i think cruz in a head to head for trump would be a good dynamic for the anti-trump forces if kasich -- >> new jersey on june 7, who would have a better chance to beat trump head to head, kasich or cruz? >> i think kasich probably has a better chance. >> i rest my case. but if kasich's not in the race, i think you have consolidation behind cruz that gives cruz a fighting shot or at least keeps trump in a position not to overperform. trump is basically underperformed his polling in just about everywhere. typically 5 to 8 points he underperformance the polling leading into these place. if a big chunk goes to cruz and temperature underperformance, he'll win in a lot of the

places. >> rose: to the democrats, al, if hillary -- and the margin has grown a bit -- beats bernie sanders in new york as expected, what does that do to the sanders campaign? >> well, it takes away any slim argument that they had that they had a shot at turning this around. the case wasn't very compelling to begin with. they hoped for a new york showdown. they could beat her on her home turf, in gettysburg in 1863 but the results will be the same, he's not going to be able to beat her on her home turf apparently. i don't think bernie sanders is going to go away and i think as people don't want him to, he's making a case, he's run a very strong campaign. he wants to have a platform at the convention. he wants to keep pushing her to the left. i don't think there's any question the way the contest will end, but i think that rather than decide it because it was decided for her in new york,

will just take away any credibility bernie will have that i could be the nominee. >> do you agree? yeah, bernie should stay in this thing. >> rose: because? he is winning in many, many places. there is a segment in the democratic party who feels they have lost their voice. >> rose: a poll today said 20, 25%, 30 said they could not support hillary, bernie supporters. >> a lot will probably wind up voting for trump if he's the nominee. this reminds you how weak a candidate hillary clinton is, that she dojt a bullet with her primary opponent being bernie sanders and not someone else. several other democrats could have beaten hillary. >> rose: joe biden? joe biden, elizabeth warren. >> rose: beaten hillary. i think she has the energy of the left, something hillary doesn't v and the gender

enthusiasm and i think she's a dynamic, young, charismatic reformer. i don't agree with her on policy but i think she's the perfect contrast to hillary clinton. i think we ar are reminded now hillary is a fundamentally weak candidate. her unfavorable numbers are not much better than donald trump's in a general election. she would probably lose to just about any republican running who ran this cycle with the exception of the two -- >> rose: al? she's not a strong candidate. you know, it's rather strange to say she would lose to any republican who can't get the nomination. you know, i think the republican party has deep problems, and i think -- i don't think there is any magical candidate who could beat hillary clinton for all her weaknesses. i think the republican party now is in the worst shape in a national contest than it's been, you know, perhaps since barry goldwater. >> rose: 64 and 68.

yeah, it's ironic because in many cases at state level in congress the republicans are very strong. >> a number of democrats, i say as giddy as they are to watch the republican party fall apart, they think that the democratic party -- >> rose: i will come to his defense and suggest he's viewing this as an analyst. >> i thought the giddiness was only when you were talking about donald trump's debacle. >> but several democrats have said to me, professional democrats, the democratic party is just a few years behind, that obama is holding things together for the democratic party, he is a unifying figure in the democratic party and there is something about having control of the white house and the executive branch that gives you tremendous control over the party. but once obama is gone, this is coming attractions, what's happening, a, on our side with trump and on the democratic side with bernie sanders. once obama is not holding the thing together a few years from

now if the democrats are out of the white house, you can see the same kind of chaos and divisiveness ripping through the democratic party. we'll be right back. stay with us. >> rose: anderson cooper and gloria vanderbilt are here. although public figures, they have long kept much of their private lives quiet. they have now written a hi memor that xplorers their relationship "the rainbow comes and goes." the "new york times" calls the collaboration a frank and tender undertaking. they also star in a documentary on the same subject. trail for "nothing left unsaid." >> i remember my mom having this kind of look blind her eyes, almost like a far away look. i mean, it's very sad to me that of all the things that she sort of wanted are in some ways so

simple. growing up, it didn't have any reality for me the whole vanderbilt side of the family. my mom has lived many different lives and sort of inhabited many different skins. she's got this public face but the reality of her life is so different from what the public face is. >> these will be fascinating to read. all our secrets. >> is this what it looked like when you first read them? >> i knew it for a week and three weeks late. >> how owled were you? 20. did any of your friends think it was weird. >> i don't know. here's your dad and mom. and my mother. people were so fascinated with this family who apparently had everything. i never felt that i belonged. you know, i felt i was an imposter. you know, when he died, i went to bed for about three weeks, and all i did was cry.

i haven't cried since. it's like there's not a tear left. >> as a young kid, i didn't know the origins of, the sadness that permeated her life. at 91, she has this drive, and that drive makes it impossible to have a calm existence. >> it just makes me feel i've achieved something. so you see me totally as my inner person, okay? (laughter) >> she's the last person in my family alive, so i don't want there to be anything left unsaid between us. >> rose: i am pleased to have anderson cooper and gloria vanderbilt back at this table. welcome. but never together. >> never together. i didn't want people to know for a long time that she was my mom, when i first started. >> i always wanted people to know you were my son. >> rose: you didn't because? when i first started out in the business, the name vanderbilt has a lot of baggage

and comes with assumptions about, you know, what her life must be like, which are completely wrong and different than what it actually is. especially when i was first starting out i was glad to have the last time cooper or as you pronounced it, cupper, and that's how southerners pronounce it, my dad's from mississippi. but now i'm established in my career. my mom called up and said the most amazing thing happened, somebody referred me to as anderson cooper's mother. >> yes, mom. >> rose: the title "the rainbow comes and goes," where does that come from? >> a cross of a poem by wordsworth. anderson thinks the rainbow comes and goes and that's the end of it. my interpretation is the rainbow comes and goes but comes back again. >> my mom is an eternal optimist

and even at 92 she thinks the next great love and adventure is right around the corner. she believes the rainbow comes and goes, you may enter dark days but it will be bright again. my thought is it will go but how do you know you will be there when it comes back? i believe winter is always coming and i want to prepare for the long haul. (laughter) >> rose: whose idea is it to put this together? >> it started when my mom turned 91. on her birthday she sent me a funny, sharp, interesting email and got me thinking when my dad died when i was ten, i had a fainty he left me a letter that might show up when i was 18 or 20, 2 is, and would tell me everything about him that i didn't know and about his life. my mom had the same fantasy

about her father when he died when she was an infant. i didn't want anything left unsaid between us when she died. we started this email conversation because i travel so much and it was easier. i wanted to change the conversation between us and get to know each other as adults and in a new way. it changed not only our relationship but even my understanding of myself. it's something i hope the book encourages -- >> rose: what were the nature of the e-mails? what would you email him? >> really, i think it started off, i said something like, my aunt gertrude saying to me on my 17th birthday, she said, today you are 17 whole years old. and i wrote to anderson, today i am 91 whole years old. and that's how really we sort of

kind of started back and forth. >> rose: just anything that occurred to you, you would email back? >> i would email a question about, you know, when i was a kid we used to watch -- i remember watching robin hood with errol flynn. i said, did you know him? she would be, oh yes... and her voice would trail off, so i would ask her simple questions that i didn't know the answers to. you know, what happened to your mom? you know, house o how was your relationship? it was like putting a message in a bottle and sending it off and a bottle would return within sometimes minutes or sometimes hours or days later. >> rose: i have often said on this program and everywhere i go especially because, a, what you do and i do and the technology that exists today that every kid ought to interview their parents and talk about their life and understand what they've done.

i've often talked to my father but not in a deepened way or nearly as much as i wanted to about world war ii. he's in the worst of the war, the battle of the bulge. >> my mom never really had a real conversation with her mother, i mean, her entire life. >> or with aunt gertrude. >> rose: did you try, though? it just wasn't appropriate. i mean, it wasn't -- you know, and the same thing with aunt gertrude. i mean, i knew very, very little certainly about my mother. >> we all repeat the patterns of the past. we all repeat the things that our parents have done and the things we say we're not going to repeat we do end up repeating, so there is tremendous power in suddenly seeing the patterns that my mom lived through and what she has done, and, i mean, it's been a revelation to me that -- you know, even the fact that we both had the same fantasy of this letter that would come from our fathers is something i hadn't realized. >> rose: was there a letter? there was no letter, no.

i did receive a letter, though. >though, from my father. no, she's kidding. she said the same thing to it seems tme.i said, there was? she's, like, no, i'm kidding. >> rose: when he asked you about errol flynn, you said, oh, sure. when he asked you about howard hughes, you said? >> i said only the greatest thing about howard hughes. >> rose: you had a lot of lovers, didn't you? >> yes, i did. i went out the hollywood when i was 17, and i had been living with my aunt gertrude and very heavily chaperoned, and she sent me out for two weeks to be with my mather with a chaperone called constance who when constance arrived my mother said, there's no room for you here, you have to stay in a hotel. two days later, constance went

home. >> and the two week trip turned into -- >> oh, and my mother literally let me do everything i wanted. >> rose: what did you want? what i wanted was to be grown up and go out with movie stars. >> it was really howard hughes who you really had a real relationship with. >with. >> rose: did you ever think about marrying him? >> what happened was i went back to new york and he had sent pat dicico who was working for him in some sort of way so we could see each other because decico had a hold on me in a strange way. >> she ended updating this gopher for howard hughes who was a total thug who may have murdered his former life which my mom thought was oddly romantic -- >> and he was also associated with lucky louisiano.

>> but she married him instead of howard hughes. >> rose: because you loved him or -- >> well, my mother sort of -- i don't know, suddenly, she announced the engagement, you know, and it all kind of happened quickly, and we were in new york, and decico sort of followed me there and, i don't know, i was just terribly confused and it was a terrible mistake. >> it's just hard for me to understand these choices. in the book, she obviously goes into a lot more detail, and it's interesting to see kind of, you know, she describes in the book being this young, 17-year-old who had never been exposed to the world at all, essentially playing blind man's bluff in a forest and every road she wou go down, she was a completely different person. >> rose: stunningly beautiful, too. how old were you there?

>> 15. >> rose: two years before you headed out. >> yeah. >> rose: what was the hardest thing to write about? to talk about? was it death? was it -- >> no, you know, i think we both experienced losses throughout our lives. my dad died when i was 10, my brother committed suicide when i was 21 in front of my mom and loss is something i believe we both speak the language of loss. it's something we're both comfortable talking about. i probably have a harder time talking about it than my mom does, but i don't think there was anything that was particularly hard -- >> well, you know, after carter died, people came, you know, to see us and were there a lot, and all i wanted to do was talk about it and go over it again and again. and i remember once a whole group of his friends and your friends from school came in and were sitting and i was in bed, and you were there and suddenly you left. i thought, why did you go, you

know? and i realized it was because you were sort of hearing this thing over and over and over again, and you didn't talk about it really at all. >> yeah, i deal with grief and tragedy in a different way. i become quiet and introspective and work it out in my head more. but there was something about doing this on email that really made it easy to put a aside the old, you know, embarrassments or awkwardness or whatever the emotions were and have this new conversation. >> but there is also a thing about email is that, you know, you do it and it's quick and then you press that button and it's gone and you can't get it back, you know. so it's sort of freeing in a way because you know you can't get it back. >> it sounds maybe like a line, but we really hope this encourages people to sit down, and whether it's an aging parent or child or whatever it is to start a new conversation with

someone else. >> and to really be able to talk without getting side tracked with things that are so painful and so difficult to, you know, go into. >> rose: you have been through so much yet have this enduring optimism. >> i think it's in my nature. i really do. i mean, i just can't not, you know. i just can't not. >> rose: so you don't accept any of the alternative other than optimism. >> i just -- i don't know. i just think it's going to turn out all right, you know. it's going to turn out the way it was meant to be and therefore it would be all right. >> rose: when you look at your life, has it been that way? it turned out okay. >> oh, yes. i failed that -- i feel that, yes. >> rose: and you have been able to survive because she's tough. >> not tough at all. i write in the book she tees least tough person i know.

she is a survive burr that term often implies a brass toughness. >> rose: no, i didn't mean that. >> she's strong. i think what's amazing about what you've done is you've decided to survive and make it through things but to remain vulnerable, and you're also the most vulnerable person i know. >> well, you know, when the custody trial happened when i was ten years old -- >> she was taken away from her mother and given to her aunt. >> who i had no idea even existed until then or the vanderbilt family, really, in that way. you know, the publicity was kept from me as much as could be -- >> there were 100 reporters in the courtroom. >> -- but part of it leaked through. of course, when it came out, we're talking about 1933, that my mother had had a lesbian relationship with alfred milford

haven, the court was closed because it was something that was so terrible, allegedly, that it was like some kind of a crime, and that really, i had no idea what it meant, you know, but it was something i thought, well, maybe i've inherited, maybe i, too, am a lesbian and it would be something terrible. and, so, i kind of put a shield around myself, and i really still to this day -- i rarely still to this day read anything about myself. if i see my name in a news paper, i turn quickly. if it's a nice photograph, i look at it, but -- (laughter) vanity, vanity, vanity. >> rose: anderson, you said to vogue in 2016, when you lose a parent at 10 years old, the world seems like a much scarier place. it makes complete sense that i took survival courses as a teenager and went to war zones as a reporter. i didn't ever want to take advantage of and eu79d to be able to take care of those

around me. >> yeah, certainly, there's a quote from mary gordon the writer and my mom quotes a lot and it's about girls and i think true about boys as well. a fatherless girl and all things possibly and nothing safe. >> girl thinks all things are possible. >> when you lose a parent early on, the world of possibilities open up. terrible things can open up, but also extraordinary things, and nothing feels safe and that's the case for me. my reaction has been sort of rational and nothing feels safe, i want to prepare for living in a place where there isn't any why, living in a world where there isn't my why, where some questions don't have answers and i want to know i can survive in any situation, and my mom has chosen not to be so organized but to sort of embrace the chaos, and she's comfortable with that chaos. so we're very different in that way, but we both have this sort of relentless drive, this rage

that has -- that propels us forward and makes kind of the fantasy of having a house with a white picket fence difficult to sustain when we actually have it. >> rose: but the rage that drives you forward is the rage over loss? >> we have different rage, actually. i never knew she had any rage at all and i never told anybody about the rage i felt. so that's one of the other things that came out in this conversation. my mom had what john o'hara calls the rage to live and mine is sort of a pure rage of the unfairness of losing a parent early on and my brother and the unfairness of becoming a different person at the age of ten and feel like i needed to take care of myself. i think that sense of unfairness, even as a reporter, fills me with rage, you know, when i see people's voices being silenced, when i see people in

situation not of their making suffering, i feel that rage. >> rose: have you become more of a risk taker because of life experiences? >> i was a risk taker early on. i started going to wars myself with a fake press pass and a borrowed camera and how i bam a reporter. snuck into burma, went to so mallia wound up in bosnia and rwanda. as i got older, you see how easy it is to get killed. we've all lost friends in the field. i don't take risks in my own life, i don't go sky diving on week ends, but for a story there is very few places i wouldn't go and i take calculated risks but don't view myself as a risk-taker. >> rose: do you see yourself in your son? >> do i think i am aeries -- i do think i am a risk-taker.

in working together on this book, eng you discovered things that you thought were similar. >> i had no idea how much i'm like my mom. i thought i was like my dad. i look like my dad. >> he looks the spitting image. but we are this drive, this relentlessness, the lack of contentment, this inability to enjoy the present. my mom, i'm completely focused on the future and completely thinking about what's coming down the pike, preparing for it, getting ready for it, what's coming next. my mom is very much focused on the past and reliving and reediting scenes from her past, but the end result is kind of a lack of ability to kind of really enjoy what we currently have. >> rose: i'm like him. you. i mean, i think about this all the time, when i think i'm working hard, i'm, like, charlie rose is doing like five shows

today. >> rose: it's this relentless thrust forward is what it is. and people think sometimes well, he just wants to be on television. no, you don't, you just want to do the stuff that's really interesting and explore the future and be a guide to the future. >> we're both blessed in that what we're doing is fascinating. we're both talking to incredible people and learning new stuff every single day. much better than vacation. i would much rather go to a country and shoot a story. >> rose: it enables you to go anywhere in the world, if, in fact, you do it, there's often the possibility to do things in every country that yo that you t otherwise do. >> right, you see the country. i don't know even know how to describe it. you're smelling the smells. it's more vibrant. it's going to the place and getting the essence of the place as opposed to just staying in a

hotel and, you know, dabbling. >> rose: you say you see a lot of yourself in your mother. what else? >> you know, i think we are very different in that her total comfort in chaos. dorothy parker said those born to the storm find the calm very boring. >> i feel much more comfortable and able to cope. >> when i call her, i steel myself for what sort of chaotic thing has just occurred. >> oh, darling, it's not like that (laughter) >> or she says, there is something i need to talk to you about, and i think i have to get ready, what's coming down the pike. i like stability and sort of calm as much as possible, but i do create chaos. >> walter matthau said to his wife carol about me, not as a compliment, she's never satisfied! but it's the wrong word. >> rose: but that's where you're similar.

you're never satisfied. his sense is always the thrill of the next exploration. >> yeah, and it's also exhausting. i sawed to my mom, it's sort of exhausting to be around her because she's constantly redecorating. she's constantly changing her environment. this table would not have lasted 20 years in my mom's apartment. she would have painted this table ten different colors over the end of the years. >> rose: do you at the end feel very proud to be a vanderbilt? >> i don't know, it has no reality for me. >> rose: because it's too rich, too social, too what? >> it has no impact. it doesn't help me in any way. >> rose: it's in your blood? i guess. i started collecting -- i feel much more cooper. i go to the cooper family reunions. you know, that feels like a family to me, and i know that history. i started to read about the vanderbilt history, but my parents sat me down early on and said, look, there is not some

vanderbilt trust. you're going to be on your own after college. thought, that's the way it should be, i'm fine with that. i started working when i was 11 to earn my own money because i wanted to take care of myself. i never felt connected. >> i never felt connected at all. i knew my name was vanderbilt but we were living in paris and my mother never spoke about my father or the vanderbilt family, for that matter. >> it wasn't a family in that, even when she was living with her aunt gertrude, she felt like an imposter. >> because i was really treated like one. i was not welcomed. so i never felt i belonged, you know. >> it's one of the reasons i wanted the book and the hbo film is the reality in my mom's life is so much more interesting than the name implies.

i think a lot of people think she is a lady who has lunch and goes to social events all the time and is painting every day. >> i'm just happy people are seeing her as she is. >> rose: what do you wish for him? anything that you don't see clearly that he has or will have? and i mean by that values as well as -- >> well, i want you to have a family. >> thank you, charlie, for bringing this up, as if this is not an ongoing discussion. (laughter) >> and i want to be alive when you do. >> rose: it's a least a mother -- it's the least a mother could ask, come on... (laughter) >> and i want to -- i just, you know -- >> s called me up a couple of years ago, she had a conversation with some doctor and he was telling her all about, you know, fertility clinics. i said, mom, i know about all this. it's not a lack of information i

have. i got it. i'm working three jobs. i've got to -- >> rose: come on, you must want a family. >> i think about it a lot. >> rose: you're how old now? i'm 48. you would make the most wonderful father. >> i really move kids. at the risk of sounding -- you know, i am good with kids. i just -- i don't know, i do love what i do and i would have to change it radically. >> rose: no, you wouldn't. i totally would. because i would want to be the kind of father my father was to me. >> rose: often what they say, it is that, you know, having children, i just talked to richard engle. he doesn't take the same kind of assignments because he's got children. it affected his sense of -- you know, he has to think about someone else other than himself. >> i take the same sort of risks. i wouldn't go to some of the places i go. >> rose: you think he's looking for a reason not to do this or what is it, gloria? >> you used to be more --

i used to be very convinced. >> rose: very convinced what? veryonvinced i would have kids. >> rose: you're not convinced now? >> well, even in writing this book, i do think we're alike in that, you know, i think that drive that we both have makes it difficult to sort of have a family and to -- i don't know, i just think it's -- i don't know. i would want to make a big change in my career, and, i don't know, we'll see. we'll see, you know, i've got to -- you know -- >> rose: but, gloria, he wants you to have another great love affair. >> well, i absolutely believe that the phone can ring and your life can change. >> rose: yeah. this is a fact. it's not a fantasy. >> i said to my mom the other day, you think there's a guy in a boat off the coast of france waiting to whisk you away. she's, like, a boat? a yacht! (laughter) >> rose: it's much more

appropriate to be a yacht. >> i'd rather work hard, earn enough money and build a little boat of my own and take care of myself. i don't want to wait around for -- >> rose: he seems to like nice things, to me, gloria, doesn't he to you? >> he does. that word taste is only what a person likes. something can be terrible, you would think, or it would have terrible taste but it really, you know -- >> my mom was always encawrnlging of any expenditure of, you know, money on things and i would go clothes shopping when i was 12 and she would be, like, well, it's something you will have forever. i'm going to be, like, i'll grow out of this in a year, i don't think forever. it was her way of getting me to get things. >> rose: did you council with her in terms of when you would decide to make pu public your

own -- >> no, this tells you about our relationship. i told my friends. i didn't tell her i was going to make a public announcement. i spent three days in a remote camp in botswana because i wanted to be away when the story came out. i wrote this letter to a web site and that's how i did it. i planned to call my mom the day before and have the conversation with her just to give her the heads up, you know, i wrote the letter and may get pickup in other media ours. >> may. turns out the camp i bent to was so remote, there was no phone, internet or any service to get out. >> rose: to anybody. i would have had to travel 24 hours to another area. so, anyway, i didn't have time to tell her. i got back two days later. i finally got to a cell service. i was, like, you should have

mentioned this was going to pop up in the "new york times." she was very sweet about it. she said, i saw you meant to tell me something. >> joyful. >> rose: seems to be the nature of the relationship. >> love is love. i mean, i had a huge problem with my mother's being a lesbian and thinking that i would be and then it was considered something that was evil and terrible, and so it took me a long time to kind of, in my intelligence, work it out and came to the conclusion that love between a woman and a woman is love, and between a man and a man is love, and between a man and a woman is love, and there isn't any difference at all, it's exactly the same. and when i figured that out, and

anderson found someone that he loves, meech i mean, i'm thrill. and i like him a lot, too. i approve. mom approves. >> rose: the book is called "the rainbow comes and goes: a mother and son on life, love and loss." there is also a document film. >> on hbo and cnn on april 29th. >> rose: thank you. thank you, always good to see you. >> rose: thank you, gloria. thank you. >> rose: thank you for joining us. see you next time. for more about this program and earlier episodes, visit us online at pbs.org and charlierose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh

access.wgbh.org

>> rose: on tomorrow's pbs "newshour", goody wood rough talked to sean foster about his

this is "nightly business report" with tyler mathisen and sue herera. >> price spike. oil surges to its highest level this year. a meeting this weekend could determine whether the climb continues. top rated. the one pickup truck that earned high marks in a tough crash test and the other one that didn't. tax survival good. still haven't filed? we have list minute tips to get your return in on time. all that and more on "nightly business report" for tuesday, april 12th. good evening, everybody. welcome. i'm sue herera. tyler mathisen is off tonight. a rumor and a rally. oil prices touch new 2016 highs on reports that saudi arabia and ss