captioning sponsored by wnet >> o'brien: on this edition for sunday, may 1: full court press in the hoosier state, as white house hopefuls compete for votes in indiana's primary this tuesday. in our signature segment, why louisiana has a waiting list for public defenders, with suspects spending more time in jail. and, the fight against isis. is the terrorist group losing ground? next on pbs newshour weekend. >> pbs newshour weekend is made possible by: lewis b. and louise hirschfeld cullman. bernard and irene schwartz. judy and josh weston. the cheryl and philip milstein family. the citi foundation. supporting innovation and enabling urban progress. the john and helen glessner family trust. supporting trustworthy

journalism that informs and inspires. sue and edgar wachenheim, iii. corporate funding is provided by mutual of america-- designing customized individual and group retirement products. that's why we are your retirement company. additional support has been provided by: and by the corporation for public broadcasting, and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. from the tisch wnet studios at lincoln center in new york, soledad o'brien. >> o'brien: hello and thanks for joining us. a pivotal presidential primary in the republican race for white house is two days away, in indiana. of 10 states left to vote, indiana is the largest delegate prize left until the last primary, in california, in june. in indiana, the republican winner will take most of the state's 57 republican delegates. new york businessman donald

trump is aiming to stretch his 430 delegate lead in the race for 1,237 delegates needed to be nominated. he's closing in on 1,000. texas senator ted cruz is trying to stop trump's momentum, and to help him win indiana, the third republican in the race, ohio governor john kasich, has ceded the state. cruz picked up ten national delegates this weekend at a republican state convention in virginia, where trump got three. on the democratic side, former secretary of state hillary clinton returned to indiana today to rally supporters who gave her a primary victory there in 2008 over barack obama. she leads vermont senator bernie sanders by around 300 pledged delegates won in primaries and caucuses and 800 overall. sanders said today catching clinton is "difficult but not impossible." for more on the indiana primary, i am joined from indianapolis by zach osowski, a political reporter with the "evansville

courier and press." see you zach thanks for talking with me. >> thanks for having me. >> we see in an nbc news wall street journal pom out, donald trump has a pretty good lead, give me a sense of confidence in a trump vicity. what would the implications of that be? >> obviously a victory here would pretty much pave the be way to locking up the nomination. ted cruz has been fighting hard in indiana because he knows if he wins here, getting the 1237 for trump a little more difficult. but right now, with the numbers we're seeing with that poll, it doesn't look like that hard work's paying off quite yet. >> what happened to the stop trump movement and the kasich-cruz alliance? has it fallen apart? >> it seems like it has. you know it was just last week

that john kasich said he was suspending his indiana campaign. but then just a couple of days later, john kasich said if voters want to vote for him they're more than welcome to vote for him and ted cruz said there's no alliance between him and kasich. there seems to be a bit of a backlash from the alliance that was announced last week. people said it made cruz look pretty desperate and it seems like he wanted to back away from that and there wasn't an alliance and he was trying to win indiana on his own. >> what is the power of endorsements been? >> it's hard to say. obviously the are endorsement of governor mike pence, he said he would be voting for trufs. it's hard to see the endorsement of pence, whether voting for

trump or cruz already. >> how do you see the democratic race shaping up? >> more and more unlikely that sanders is going to get the democrat nomination. this race is pretty much a tossup. i think if voter turnout is pretty big on tuesday, sanders has a chance to win, but it seems more and more likely that hillary clinton is going to lock up the democrat nomination pretty soon. >> it seems very unlikely indiana is the focus of everybody's attention in an election year. >> we haven't seen so much attention here since 2008 when barack obama and hillary clinton were still battling out for the democrat nomination and you could see the excitement level regardless of which rally you go to whether it's a trump really,

rally or hillary clinton, lines are long to see her. hooz years arhoosiers are are ps way. >> zach, thanks for being with me. >> have thank you have >> o'brien: in iraq, a large protest inside baghdad's heavily-fortified green zone ended has ended peacefully. after a 24-hour sit-in, hundreds of protesters agreed to disperse today and left the district where the parliament and foreign embassies are located. yesterday, the followers of shiite cleric muqtada al-sadr tore down a protective blast wall, stormed the green zone, and occupied parliament to demand political reforms. it was the first time the green zone had ever been breached. iraqi prime minister haider al- abadi has vowed to enact reforms. in continued sectarian violence, isis claimed responsibility for suicide car bombings today on a bus station and a government building in a mostly shiite city 140 miles south of baghdad.

police say at least 32 people were killed and at least 75 others wounded. the airport in brussels, belgium, bombed by isis terrorists 40 days ago, has repaired and reopened its main departure hall. until today, passengers had been using a temporary check-in tent. belgian prime minister charles michel said, "we choose to resist. brussels is back in business." he unveiled a plaque commemorating the 16 people killed by suicide bombers there on march 22. the airport hopes to reach 100 percent capacity next month. following five to ten inches of rain over the past two days, the national weather service has issued a flash flood watch for parts of louisiana and of texas. the new orleans jazz fest wrapped up today under gray skies. severe thunderstorms yesterday caused the annual festival to cancel performances by stevie wonder, snoop dogg, buddy guy and beck. anti-war activist daniel berrigan has died. berrigan, a jesuit priest, and his late brother, philip, also a

priest became famous for burning vietnam draft cards. they were prosecuted, with seven other activists, for destroying government property, after seizing hundreds of records from a selective service office in catonsville, maryland, in 1968. the defendants became known as the "catonsville nine," and berrigan served two years in federal prison. in later years, berrigan protested nuclear weapons, the war in iraq, and took part in occupy wall street. he also wrote 50 books, including 15 volumes of poetry. daniel berrigan was 94-years- old. >> o'brien: watch any tv crime drama, and you're bound to hear a police officer tell someone being arrested, if you cannot afford an attorney, one will be provided for you. the right to counsel is a constitutional guarantee, and a necessity, as 80% of all state

criminal defendants qualify for a public defender. yet, government spending on public defenders has decreased across the country, leading 43 states to require their indigent clients to pay part of their legal fees. one of those states is louisiana, where budget and caseload cuts have created a backlog in the court system. in tonight's signature segment, newshour special correspondent john larson went down to new orleans to find out more. >> reporter: a public defender in new orleans, will snowden is on his way to jail to meet a client, a man charged with armed robbery and facing a potentially very long prison term. >> we as a public defender office take our responsibility of representing the poor folks of new orleans very seriously. and when that becomes in jeopardy because of our workload and our caseload, that's not something we're willing to sacrifice. >> reporter: in his third year on the job, snowden works six days a week. he's handling around 75 cases, but he used to juggle 120, until

his boss told attorneys in his office to refuse new cases, due to a shortage of funds. >> it's very contradictory to the reason why i came here in the first place. i came here to represent poor folks who are charged with crimes, to give them adequate, stellar, quality representation, and nobody in my office is able to do that when people get put on a wait list because we simply don't have the funds. >> reporter: 85% of the more than 20,000 cases that move through the new orleans criminal justice system every year require the help of a public defender. yet, since january, the public defenders office has refused 125 defendants requesting its help, and put them on an indefinite waiting list. why? because three streams of revenue the public defenders depends on have declined: traffic fines, court fees and its share of state revenues. in the past four years, the city's public defender's budget has dropped by a third, from nine million to just six million dollars per year.

chief public defender derwyn bunton says he been forced to reduce staff. he once had 15 investigators, he now has only eight. he had 78 attorneys, now reduced to just 42. >> the bottom line rule is we're refusing cases we don't have adequate resources to defend. >> reporter: toughest cases, complex cases? >> right now it's the tough, complex cases, because our restriction of services includes in it a hiring freeze, i can't replace people who leave. >> reporter: you mean lawyers who have left your office? >> that's correct, and so a lot of the lawyers who've left my office have been very experienced lawyers, lawyers who would normally take the rapes, armed robberies, murders. >> hundreds of people caught in a shootout tonight in the ninth ward, the chaotic scene left more than a dozen people wounded at the bunnyfriend playground. >> the turning point for me, as chief, was when we had a case, we had a playground shooting, it was bunnyfriend's playground

here in new orleans. >> reporter: one of the accused shooters claimed to have an alibi. and fortunately could afford to hire his own attorney. >> the family was able to get a private attorney, that private attorney was able to go to houston, find the video footage of them actually shopping in houston at the time of the crime and i looked at that case, and i said i'm not sure we would have made it to houston in time. it was terrifying to me, and i just, i didn't want our office complicit in that. i didn't want to pretend that everything was okay in telling our clients, that we had adequate resources. so we began to refuse cases. >> reporter: the united states constitution guarantees all americans the right to a speedy and public trial and the assistance of counsel. and the supreme court ruled in 1963, "any person who is too poor to hire a lawyer, cannot be assured a fair trial unless counsel is provided." all of which means anyone who

can't afford an attorney has a right to a public defender. but someone has to pay for that. >> the problem with our public defender system in the state is that it's fundamentally based on something that is doomed to fail. >> reporter: walt leger, a state representative from new orleans, says because traffic fines and court fees often didn't cover the full cost of public defenders, the state established a board a decade ago to subsidize them. and that budget has remained flat. >> and so a 10-year period with essentially no growth, and obviously additional costs necessary to provide these services, amounts to a fairly significant cut over time. >> reporter: leger believes it is also a mistake for public defenders to rely on fees from their mostly poor clients; a $40 application fee plus another $45 if they are convicted. >> the problem there being if you are in fact convicted, then the likelihood of you paying any of these fees is slim to none.

>> reporter: new orleans has approved regular annual funding increases for the city's police and prosecutors. so, why is it that the indigent defense, as they call public defenders, always seems to be on the short end of the stick? >> well you know, i think the politics of it is very obvious. it's easy for legislators, it's easy for city council people, it's easy for mayors and it's easy for governors to support the funding of things like law enforcement, police, prosecutors offices, d.a.'s, attorney generals. it becomes less popular with the public to fund things like public defenders, it's kind of the same old concept of-- and you hear people say this sometimes-- "well if the person's been arrested, they must be guilty of something, right?" >> reporter: the american civil liberties union has sued the new orleans public defender's office in federal court, saying its refusal to take cases has doomed the accused to "languish

indefinitely in jail without counsel" and the growing wait list "violates their constitutional rights." henry campbell is among the accused caught in limbo. in march 2013, the 18-year-old high school student was charged with rape. he's remained in jail without trial, as his case was handed off from one public defender to another. >> it's just astounding that someone can sit there, that they can really just fall through the cracks. >> reporter: greg carter is a private lawyer who accepted the court's request to represent campbell for free. >> this is amazing, but the public defender's office has-- i don't want to say lost-- but they can't find his file currently. and so i went over there, i requested it from them. first they couldn't find his name in the computer systems they have over there. then they just don't know where to go to pick up his file. >> reporter: carter says justice delayed, due to the public defenders budget crisis, is not only justice denied, but adds to the challenge of mounting an effective defense.

you really haven't had the time to sit down and talk to him about the case. >> right. >> reporter: you don't even have the case. >> exactly. >> reporter: and there he sits. >> there he sits. day by day, sitting in, i keep calling it a cage but i mean that's really what it is. he's locked in a cage with no recourse, no way out, no way of preparing for trial. every day that goes by, there's a potential piece of evidence that's being lost or being forgotten that could be that one key that frees him. that evidence never comes back. if someone forgets something that could be the one key to freeing him. that doesn't come back. >> reporter: three full years after henry campbell was arraigned in this courtroom a court-appointed attorney filed a motion involving henry and six other defendants. it said that louisiana's justice system was so broken, allowing prisoners to languish in jail for years, allowing others to go months without any kind of legal representation, that it violated

the u.s. constitution. last month, a judge agreed, ordering campbell and six other defendants, all charged with serious crimes, including murder and assault with a deadly weapon, to be released. the state is now appealing the release order, so campbell and the other men remain behind bars. the head of the state's district attorneys association is baton rouge d.a. hillar moore. from a prosecutor's point of view, this is a worst case scenario. >> it's very scary. >> reporter: these are people that you and your other d.a.'s have specifically put in prison. arrested, done the work. >> we believe they are very dangerous individuals. i think that if you asked the lawyers that represent them, they will tell you that they believe that they're dangerous individuals that are now being required to be bonded out of jail, because they don't have a lawyer. and look, it's basic to our system that these people are, regardless of what i think, regardless of what the allegations are, they're required to have adequate, a good defense. and so i think the judge is in a position where he had no other choice but to do what he did. >> reporter: besides the

politics, a public defender bailout from the state is unlikely, due to a massive budget crunch in louisiana. a 2008 tax cut followed by a steep drop in revenues from the state's oil and gas industry has left legislators like walt leger scrambling to cut spending on everything, from schools to hospitals. how often do you allow yourself to just sit back and think, "what a mess." >> the thought crosses my mind every day. at this point in the state of louisiana, in my mind, providing high quality access to healthcare for all of our citizens is a priority, beyond that, there are things like funding our colleges and universities at an appropriate level to make sure that we have the opportunity to expand and grow our economy here. >> reporter: but i notice even in that list, the public defender's office doesn't really come up to the top. >> it doesn't with me, and for me, i'm someone who really understands the importance of it because i've been involved in

dealing with it. but certainly i think you can ask every legislator in the body, i don't think it would make the top ten list. >> reporter: public defender will snowden believes his smaller caseload now allows him to do a better a job, but at a steep cost to society. >> it's at the price of people sitting in jail for three months, two months, four months, whatever it may be, without a lawyer. and i hate for that to be the cost of doing better work for the clients that i have, but then there are clients who nobody is doing any work for. and that's where the injustice lies, that these people, case, their defense is literally just passing away with the passing of time. >> o'brien: learn about new technologies being developed to make firearms safer. read our report online at pbs.org/newshour. >> o'brien: the islamic state in iraq and syria, or isis, has drawn recruits from all over the world, so-called foreign fighters.

the u.s. director of national intelligence has put the number at 38,000, including an estimated 250 recruits from the u.s. but this week, the pentagon said the pace of isis recruiting has dropped 75%, from 2,000 fighters a month to 500. one reason, according to the military: consistent u.s.-led air strikes on isis positions. joining me now from washington to discuss this is doug ollivant, a retired u.s. army lieutenant colonel and now a partner at the global management consulting firm mantid international. >> nice to see you thanks for talking with me. how be be accurate do you think these numbers are? >> a good estimate, there may be a 10% tolerance either way but we have a pretty good feel for how large the flow is and certainly we can see it's down. so it may not be down 25% but it is significantly fewer than a year or two ago. >> o'brien: does this give

you any insight into exactly what is happening inside i.s.i.s? >> several things are happening. first as the military points out they are killing a whole bunch of them but i.s.i.s. has lost significant amounts of territory inside iraq and syria and perhaps just as importantly they have lost a lot of their money. we have actually physically blown up large stocks they had in banks and houses in mosul and as we know we have also cut off their ability to smug out the -- smuggle out the oil. they have no locker the appearance of winning in iraq and syria, they have lost major cities and can't pay large salaries. >> o'brien: do you think there will be a movement from creating a caliphate in iraq and syria to lone wolves staying where they are? >> talking to on social media, don't come here, stay home, that's making lemonade out of

lemons, they can't pay them so they tell them to stay home. that's something we're just as concerned about if not more so, are the radical jihadists doing these lone wolf or very small group attacks. >> o'brien: ultimately does this see people outside of i.s.i.s. feel safer. if you have a number of lone wolves operating, if these attacks relatively low cost and maybe not even organized, does the end goal makes us feel safer? >> no. this is bad news particularly for europe where a much larger percentage of these foreign fighters come from and for that matter, the other countries in the region. the saudis, the tunisians, the largest countries providing

fighters. >> doug ollivant thank you for joining us. >> my pleasure, so >> this is pbs newshour weekend, sunday. >> o'brien: the commander-in- chief turned comedian-in-chief last night, entertaining the white house correspondents association dinner for the eighth and final time. mr. obama dished some one-liners about himself and those who hope to replace him. >> if this material works well, i'm going to use it at goldman sachs next year. earn me some serious tubmans. bernie, you look like a million bucks. or, to put in terms you'll understand, you look like 37,000 donations of $27 each. hillary trying to appeal to young voters is a little bit like your relative who just signed up for facebook. "dear america, did you get my poke? is it appearing on your wall?

i'm not sure i'm using this right. love, aunt hillary." you got a room full of reporters, cameras, celebrities, and he says no. is this dinner too tacky for the donald? what could he possibly be doing instead? is he at home eating a trump steak, tweeting out insults to angela merkel? what's he doing? ted had a tough week. he went to indiana. hoosier country. stood on a basketball court and called the hoop a basketball ring. what else is in his lexicon? baseball sticks? football hats? but sure, i'm the foreign one.

>> o'brien: and finally, the obama's older daughter is going oharvard. but not right away. 17-year-old malea obama who graduates next month will enroll in harvard in the fall of 2017, taking a year off. be the president and first lady both attend harvard loom. storm, is judy woodrough rks be be visits warren buffett.. that's all for newshour, i'm soledad o'brien, good night.

captioning sponsored by wnet captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org >> pbs newshour weekend is made possible by: lewis b. and louise hirschfeld cullman. bernard and irene schwartz. judy and josh weston. the cheryl and philip milstein family. the citi foundation. supporting innovation and enabling urban progress. the john and helen glessner family trust. supporting trustworthy journalism that informs and inspires. sue and edgar wachenheim, iii. corporate funding is provided by mutual of america-- designing customized individual and group retirement products. that's why we are your retirement company. additional support has been provided by: and by the corporation for public broadcasting, and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you.

the following kqed production was produced in high definition. this time on "spark" -- first, the women of "kitka" preserve and celebrate the rich vocal traditions of eastern europe. next, the mixed-media work of santa cruz artist victoria may is inspired by the intricate process of custom dressmaking. then, a look at how local artists are surviving the recession, and what we might be able learn from the historic wpa programs of the '30s. next on "spark." major support for "spark" is provided by --