captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc >> woodruff: good evening. i'm judy woodruff. on the newshour tonight, as the race for the white house moves toward the general election, we talk with bernie sanders about his ongoing battle with hillary clinton. >> if we do very, very well, and get 65% of the remaining votes, we will actually have a majority of delegates, as i understand it. >> woodruff: it's friday. mark shields and david brooks on that democratic race, and on donald trump as the presumption republican nominee. plus, an apocalyptic scene in canada's fort mcmurray. fires continue to rage, forcing some 80,000 from their homes. also ahead: ♪ ♪

pianist rob kapilow returns to celebrate johannes brahms's birthday by breaking down of one of the composer's most popular pieces. >> according to all contemporary accounts, he was sarcastic, prickly, abrupt, utterly self- guarded, almost impossible to get to know. and the same thing is actually true of this piece. >> woodruff: all that and more, on tonight's pbs newshour. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: ♪ ♪ moving our economy for 160 years.

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of these institutions: and friends of the newshour. >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> woodruff: donald trump faced more major defections today, as he tries to line up republicans behind his bid for the white house. and president obama weighed in for the first time on trump's rise to the top of the g.o.p. john yang begins our coverage. >> this is not entertainment. this is not a reality show.

>> reporter: with that, the president issued an appeal to voters and reporters alike. he called for much more focus on donald trump's record-- and much less on "the spectacle and the circus." >> this is a contest for the presidency of the united states, and what that means is that every candidate, every nominee, needs to be subject to exacting standards and genuine scrutiny. it means that you got to make sure that their budgets add up. >> reporter: the president said republicans will have to decide for themselves if they feel comfortable with trump as their nominee. but senator lindsey graham of south carolina tweeted that he is not. just yesterday, house speaker paul ryan said he's not ready to endorse trump either. >> i was really surprised by it. it's not a good thing. it's something the party should get solved quickly. >> reporter: ryan and other hill

republican leaders are to meet trump next thursday. and republican national chairman reince priebus told "politico" today, he expects the party to come around. at a rally in charleston, west virginia, last night, trump pledged to restore the coal industry-- and received the endorsement of the west virginia coal association, an industry group. west virginians vote next week, and polls show bernie sanders leading hillary clinton. on the democratic side, bernie sanders is looking to beat hillary clinton again. she has a nearly insurmountable lead in delegates, but in charleston, voters like john baker told us why he's backing the vermont senator anyway. >> it's all about people for me, and i liked his emphasis on things like healthcare and approaching drug addictions from a healthcare perspective, and things like college tuitions. >> reporter: so you feel perhaps by voting for senator sanders you're influencing secretary clinton? >> i would hope so. making a statement.

>> reporter: clinton supporter bernie deem says she isn't buying the sanders message. >> i believe that she has the ability to see the needs of every american. and i think she has insight-- no matter what generation you are in, no matter any the things that other people pull us apart, i think that she realizes that basically we all have the same needs. and that she'll find ways for those needs to be met. >> reporter: it's a divide here in west virginia that mirrors previous democratic primaries-- and sanders is insisting he'll campaign all the way to this summer's convention. for the pbs newshour, i'm john yang in west virginia. >> woodruff: later in the day, trump dismissed senator lindsey graham's opposition, saying he ran a "hapless" campaign and has "zero credibility." and, in omaha, nebraska, he took on another former rival-- jeb bush, who said today that he will not support trump, either. >> i will not criticize my

competition anymore. when somebody says something bad about me, even as recently as yesterday, i'm allowed to hit them on it, right? but i won't talk about jeb bush. i will not say he's low energy. i won't. i will not say it! i will not say it! >> woodruff: others lining up against trump include mitt romney, the party's 2012 presidential nominee. but former vice president dick cheney said he will be in the trump camp. we'll explore all of this, and have an interview with democratic hopeful bernie sanders, later in the program. in the day's other news, the latest jobs numbers are out, and they show u.s. employers reined in their hiring last month. the labor department reports 160,000 jobs were added in april-- far short of the 215,000 that many economists expected. the unemployment rate remained at 5%, about where it's been

since last fall. at his mini-news conference today, president obama said a new tax rule will boost the economy by curbing offshore tax evasion. >> they will allow us to continue to do a better job of tracking financial flows and making sure people are paying the taxes that they owe, rather than using shell corporations and offshore accounts to avoid doing the things that ordinary americans are doing every day, and that's making sure they're paying their fair share. >> woodruff: the president also called for a new focus on badly needed public works projects, like roads and water pipes, and for raising the federal minimum wage. wall street moved modestly higher on the jobs news. the dow jones industrial average gained nearly 80 points to close at 17,740. the nasdaq rose 19 points, and the s&p 500 added six. for the week, all three indexes

ended down by a fraction of a percent. the city of london is set tonight to elect its first muslim mayor. votes counted so far in thursday's election show labour party candidate sadiq khan is on track to win the race. khan's conservative opponent accused him of supporting islamist radicals. but he rejected the charge and said he'll "take the fight to the extremists." >> reporter: they cheer for a leader who today hailed an h-bomb test as his greatest achievement in office. kim jong un opening the first >> woodruff: apoligies for that. north korea's ruling "worker's party" has convened its first congress in 36 years. the country's young dictator, kim jong un, used the occasion to tout a nuclear program condemned by most of the world. debi edward of independent

television news reports from pyongyang. >> reporter: they cheer for a leader who today hailed an h-bomb test as his greatest achievement in office. kim jong un opening the first workers party congress in 36 years, with a speech celebrating the unprecedented results of his nuclear weapons program. >> the 33-year-old was clearly seeking to send a strong message to the world leaders who have the 33-year-old was clearly seeking to send a strong message to the world leaders who have condemned his actions. but we, together with over 100 foreign journalists invited here to report on the event, were not allowed in. the congress is taking place in the building behind me, which commemorates the foundation of the korean army, a fitting place

then for kim jong un to assert his control over the military and his party. kim oak yoo is a doctor in the city and told us she has pride in a nation that can defend itself against any enemy in the world. what this congress will likely lack in policy-making, it will make up for in political showmanship. >> woodruff: kim has held power for four years, succeeding his father and grandfather. major league baseball announced it's moving two of its scheduled games out of puerto rico over concerns about the zika virus. the games were scheduled for later in may between the pittsburgh pirates and miami marlins. players and staff of both clubs were briefed by the centers for disease control on the risks

associated with zika before the decision was made. the games will be relocated to miami. and thousands of fans of prince are paying tribute to the late pop star tonight in los angeles. the public memorial in front of city hall includes a free concert featuring singers faith evans and eric benet. prince was found dead last month at his home in a suburb of minneapolis. still to come on the newshour: fire destroys canada's fort mcmurray, leaving an apocalyptic wake; why puerto rican's are leaving the island in record numbers; my conversation with senator bernie sanders, plus much more. >> woodruff: evacuees from an enormous wildfire moved to safety today in alberta, canada. they were ferried out by an airlift-- and a land convoy--

from a large section of the province, the heart of the country's oil industry. hari sreenivasan reports. >> sreenivasan: they rolled down a deserted highway-- about 50 vehicles at a time-- taking evacuees south to safety. over the next four days, thousands will convoy from north of fort mcmurray, where they've been stranded, toward edmonton. they're driving through a fire zone that's roughly ten times the size of manhattan. chad morrison is alberta's manager of wildfire prevention. >> no firebreak here would have stopped this fire. because this fire is jumping kilometers at a time. we're seeing fire spreads where you know it's creating its own lightning fires out of this fire. this is an extreme, rare, rare fire event and that's something that's historic for us. >> sreenivasan: the big blaze has scorched some 1,600 homes and buildings, burning entire suburbs, but, alberta premier rachel notley says the fort mcmurray city center has survived, so far. >> as of this morning, the downtown is largely intact. the hospital is still standing. municipal buildings and the

airport also remain intact. firefighters have also been working to save as much of the residential areas as possible. >> sreenivasan: more than 1,100 firefighters are on the fire lines, backed by 145 helicopters and 22 air tankers. but, there's only so much they can do. the fire first broke out sunday, and by tuesday, towering walls of flames closed in on the city, with a blanket of thick smoke choking the sky. some 88,000 residents fled for their lives, many of them to evacuation centers to the south. evan dyer of the canadian broadcast corporation has been reporting from the scene. >> people have talked about escaping through 100 foot flames on both sides of the road. i mean, we have seen dash cam footage that we shot of people fleeing this fire where you find it hard to believe cars can even make it through this inferno. you could see flames hopping

both sides of highway 63, which is the only road of out fort mcmurray. >> sreenivasan: the city sits in the heart of canada's oil sands region, and the flames have shut down a number of facilities, pushing up global oil prices. meanwhile, the fire is still burning out of control, fueled by low humidity and high winds. >> right now, we really do need some rain. there's no question about it. and then even once we get rain, there's still going to be a lot of fire out there and a lot of work. we'll be here for weeks and weeks to put that fire out. >> sreenivasan: the cbc's evan dyer says, that means there's no timetable for when the evacuees will finally be able to return home. >> some know for a fact that their homes have been destroyed. others are still living with the uncertainty of not knowing, some know their homes are safe, but perhaps are in the path of fire. >> sreenivasan: but, melissa blake, the mayor of the regional municipality of wood buffalo, says they'll make it. >> we are a strong and resilient community. and friends and families and people who are worried about our

folks, i need to assure you, everybody has been out safe and sound. we've got more that we're moving and we will get them out. >> sreenivasan: an investigation is underway to determine how the fire started in the first place. >> woodruff: now, to the escalating debt crisis in puerto rico. the u.s. territory has for some years been in a prolonged financial descent and earlier this week, its government missed a significant loan payment. jeffrey brown filed our report, from the island's capital city. >> brown: the sights and sounds of old san juan leading back to the 16th century. this morning, locals and tourists enjoyed the charm of the caribbean island. but last night, about an hour away, we heard of another puerto rico.

coral jimenez lives with her 11-year-old son felix who suffers severe disabilities. several months ago, the fiscal crisis that now plagues this island territory trick ltd down to her son. >> the people that provide therapy for my son were not getting paid so we stopped getting the services for more than a month. he couldn't get his physical, occupational, speech, psychological therapies, he stopped getting them. >> brown: coral says caring for her son has taken a village overfriends and family but now the village needs help. >> i required therapy, i required his father to help me economically. my mom has to help me, but the economy has been affecting his father's business. he's doing the best he can, but he's warning me things are not going the way they used to be. some friends of mine who helped me a lot, they have to move to

the states, so i don't count on those friends anymore. >> brown: we heard other stories from victims of a slow economic moving crisis that's battered government coffers and sacked personal savings in san juan. the unemployment rate is here is dunld that of the mainland u.s. >> my kids are grown up, now. one is in university and i also have grandchildren. they are suffering, too, because i can't help them the way i normally would have. >> brown: one response, puerto ricans are leaving in record numbers, 230 a day. according to a recent study, puerto rico lost testimony 2% of its population in 2014 and the flight continues. enrique cuervas runs a bodega in san juan. >> hi sister in law moved to the u.s. she was struggling as a nurse in

puerto rico. now she lives in florida and has doubled her salary. they pay her $29 an hour. she was making $9 here. >> health professionals are leaving the island. you see an empty ward now. between frozen positions and layoffs, i had about one-fifth, about 100 positions that i have either frozen or laid off employees. >> brown: one hard-hit sector, health care, domingo cruz, head of children's hospital in san juan has had to make difficult choices as people slide into poverty, can't pay their bills and the government rolls back its support. no business can stay open if you cut 40% of your business. if congress doesn't assign resources to the american program, they hope the -- the whole healthcare system on the island will collapse.

>> brown: colonel lance. it will collapse. eventually, there will not be enough healthcare professionals to take care of the 3. a 5 million u.s. citizens in puerto rico. >> brown: the question of the moment is whether puerto rico itself can stay in business. some of the problems have gone on for more than a decade but this week came thelaseths twist as the government will default on a scheduled debt payment. the city for a new economy, an independent puerto rican based think tank said puerto rico failed time and again to adjust to economic realities. >> the two problems are the economic slow down and the debt crisis. puerto rico has been contracting since 2006, that's when the tax break for doing business in puerto rico ex fired. congress phased it out in 1996 over ten years. companies and jobs left and the government had to increase the debt to keep the economy going.

>> brown: today the overall debt stands at an astounding $72 billion. on monday, the government said it would not pay a piece of it, a $422 million payment owed by the government development bank. >> i haven't been able to afford one then you have the other. >> brown: puerto rico's governor had to make a choice between paying off creditors and providing basic services. >> i do not have the moneys. it's not that i do not want to pay. it's i just have the money. it's automatic. if today i have to pay to supply fuel to police cars, i will not pay the supplier of the medicines to the medical center. >> brown: you have to pick one or the other, you feel? >> every day. >> brown: the governor blames what he calls vulture hedge funds blocking puerto rico's request to restructure its debt and sees racial discrimination

and ads airing in the u.s. >> stop the washington bailout of puerto rico. >> why are they using actors, trying to represent that they are puerto ricans? why are they say we're asking for a bailout? it's not true. it's just because we are not a state, that we're a republican. >> brown: the government wants help from washington and key figures from jack lew to house speaker paul ryan are looking for possible solutions including new legislation that would allow puerto rico to file for a kind of municipal bankruptcy, as detroit did. for the moment, though, there's a political stalemate. if,gornor garcia padilla warned, a bailout by taxpayers is inevitable. >> we are optimistic entrepreneurship is the way forward. >> brown: for some, the picture is brighter, filled with

opportunity. piloto 151 is part tech incubate around meetup space operating office space and training to would be entrepreneurs. sofia stolberg is the co-founder. >> when there is economic pain, there is economic opportunity. we believe entrepreneurship and high-growth entrepreneurship is what's going to help us out of this fiscal crisis we're in. >> how does that do that? it will eventually get to a critical mass where we'll be able to have at least one big home run that we'll be able to change the economic landscape forever. >> brown: it's a lot to hope for and maybe years away. the territory as a whole faces its next test when a huge debt payment of $2 billion comes due on july 1. but cora jimenez is focused on daily struggles. she wants to remain in her homeland with her son and is trying to hold out faith. >> i'm not like some other people that think the government is against us and the department

of education is against us and trying to take away our services. i think people are trying. people of the government, they're trying. but whatever they're doing is not working. it's not fair my son gets affected. hundreds of kids get affected because of decisions somebody else is making, and i don't think for a second that they're doing it with a bad intention, but it's affecting the population. >> brown: affecting this island of more than 3 million, one family at a time. from san juan, puerto rico, i'm jeffrey brown for the pbs "newshour". >> woodruff: and in a second report next week report next week, jeff will look at how the mosquito-borne zika virus threatens puerto rico, and what the territory is doing to fight back. >> woodruff: stay with us. coming up on the newshour: mark shields and david brooks examine this week with its political

turning point, and pianist rob kapilow breaks down a famous piece by johannes brahms just in time to celebrate the late composer's birthday. but first, we turn our focus to the fight to win the democratic nomination for president. even as the delegate math favors hillary clinton to become the party's nominee in november, bernie sanders is still working hard to defeat her. i spoke with the vermont senator this afternoon. seator sanders, welcome to the "newshour". let me start with a question about something that's happened in west virginia, a state you have been campaigning in. donald trump, yesterday, received the endorsement of the west virginia coal association. this is a group that represents 95% of the coal industry if that state -- in that state. they almost always endorse democrats. what does that say about the challenge that you or secretary clinton face this november?

>> well, i think that we stand a good chance to win the primary in west virginia on tuesday, and the reason is that we are talking to the issues that impact the people of west virginia and, in fact, this country, and that is the fact that people are working longer hours for lower wages and almost all new income and wealth is going to the top 1%. we're the only major country on earth who edsent guarantee paid healthcare to all people and paid leave. in west virginia, change is real caused by human activity, it is doing devastating harm all over the planet and we have to transform our energy system away from fossil fuel. but i have introduced change legislation which puts $41 billion into rebuilding those communities all over this

country that have been hurt by that transition, by making sure that if workers lose their jobs, they're going to get new jobs. they're going to get educational opportunities, they're going to get extended unemployment. >> woodruff: i hear you, but when the group that represents most of the coal industry hears your message and donald trump's, they're saying they like donald trump better. >> well, i think at the end of the day the people of west virginia and the people of america understand that we have a moral responsibility to leave this planet in a way that is healthy and habitable for your children and future generations. >> woodruff: senator, a question about what secretary clinton said to the los angeles times this week in an interview with the editorial board. she said, anytime you ask senator sanders a question about foreign policy, what's your plan, for example, to defeat i.s.i.s.? she said, his response is i voted against the iraq war authorization, meaning secretary clinton. she went on to say he has never had any experience or authority to make any hard decisions.

she said, i can't tell you what he would have done in the situation room about bin laden or listed other crises, she says a lot of what he says is problematic. >> yeah, well, you know, she may not know what i would have done with regard to bin laden and, obviously, what i would have done is everything we could to kill or capture him, but she does run away from this very important issue. look, she was in the senate, i was in the house in 2002. iraq is and has been the most important foreign policy issue that this country has faced in our modern history. she heard the same evidence that i did. she voted for the war, i voted against the war. she in a debate we had a couple of months ago, she said, henry kissinger thought i was doing a good job as secretary of state. kissinger was the worst, most destructive secretary of states this country has had. secretary clinton and i do look

at foreign policy in a very different way. >> woodruff: my question is, senator, is she's saying you don't have these experience making these decisions she does. >> yeah, well, that's right, i did not have the experience to overthrow gadhafi in libya and then create a destabilized area there that allowed i.s.i.s. to come into. look, she was secretary of state for four years, there's no argument. that is a lot of experience. i have been in the senate for nine years, in the house for 16 years. i voted against the first gulf war which i think history will conclude was the right vote. i believe that i.s.i.s. not only must be defeated, they must be destroyed, but they must be destroitd by muslim troops on the ground with our support and support of other superpowers, not with a perpetual warren gauged in by the united states military. >> senator, different subject. you sent a letter today to the chairman of the democratic national committee. debby wasserman schultz, you urged her in your words not to

stack the committees that will draft the rules at the convention and lay out the party platform. you went on to say that if committee assignments aren't fairly allotted, you said one result could be floor fights, and you talked about being prepared that you are prepared to mobilize your delegates to force as many votes as necessary. this sounds like a threat? >> a threat? no. it's using the rules and the process of the democratic convention. nothing threatening about it. what is the threat is that chairwoman wasserman schultz is creating a process right now in terms of the selection of delegates for the major committees which are totally stacked. as of now, we have won 45% of the pledge delegates, the the real delegates people vote for. i have the feeling that in the next nine primaries and caucuses we'll see that number go up.

hopefully, actually, to a majority. so i think that our people deserve a fair shake on the important committees. we have been fighting for medicare for our healthcare program. we're fighting to end the go desk level of income and wealth inequality. we're fighting for free public health and education at colleges and universities and people who support me on these committees. the chairwoman stacked the deck complete completely with the more conservative members of the democratic party when the people all over the country are saying we're tired of establishment politics and economics. so all that that letter says is we think our people, where we are right now at 45%, i think that number will go higher, maybe to 50%, we deserve a fair shake. what is wrong with that proposal? >> woodruff: now, senator, i wasn't suggesting there was anything wrong. i was saying when you say the result could be floor fights, mobilizing the delegates, sounds

like -- >> that's part of the rules. judy, that is what the rules are. you have the right to have minority reports. you have the right to have vigorous discussion on the issues. all that that letter says is treat us fairly. don't stack the deck and give us committees that are lopsided in terms of clinton delegates. we want a fair shake. nothing more than that. if we don't get a fair shake, we will do what is natural. we will use the rules of the democratic convention to fight for what we believe in. >> woodruff: okay. senator, you've looked very closely, of course, at this context coming up there, nine more states coming, i should say nine more primaries, four more caucuses coming up. what do you believe is the most number of pledge del combats you could have -- delegates you could have going into this convention? >> woodruff: judy, we are fighting an uphill battle to get a majority. for us, i think, for example, we

stand a pretty good chance to win in west virginia, maybe kentucky and i think we're favored in oregon. i think we have a good chance to win in california which obviously is the largest number of delegates of any state. if we get -- and i understand this is uphill, i'm not predicting that we will, but if we do very, very well and get 65% of the remaining votes, we actually will have a majority of pledge delegates as i understand it. if not, we may have 47%, 48% of pledge delegates going into the convention. and the case that i want to make to the superdelegates, over 400 superdelegates came on board secretary clinton's campaign well over a year ago before i even got into the race, and the case that i want to make to those parts of the democratic establishment is what is most important is we defeat donald trump, that somebody like trump never should get into the white house, and if you look at all of the national polls, virtually

all of the statewide polls, bernie sanders is the stronger candidate against donald trump than is hillary clinton, around the reason for that is we are appealing not only to democrats, we are appealing to independents as well. >> woodruff: senator, final quick question -- what do you say to your supporters that are telling my colleagues at the "newshour", other journalists that if you don't get the form nation, they're not going to vote for hillary clinton and they may vote for donald trump? >> well, what i am going to be doing now, judy, in the next five weeks is fighting for every delegate we can get. we have a narrow path to victory, but i'm going to fight to see that we can win, and then we're going to take our fight to the democratic caucus. if we do not one the nomination, we will sit down with secretary clinton and see where we go from here, but it is incumbent on secretary clinton, who by the way, as i understand it, is now reaching out to jeb bush's

fundraisers in order to raise money from them, and that really casts a doubt on the parts of millions of americans, are you really going to stand up for the working and middle class while you're collecting millions from jeb bush supporters? those are the kinds of things that i think make not only my supporters but ordinary americans nervous. but the bottom line is, a, we're going to fight to win the democratic nomination. b, we're going to make sure if we don't win that the platform at the convention is a platform that speaks to the needs of working families. c, if we do not win the nomination, we're looking forward to sitting down with secretary clinton and seeing where we go from there. >> woodruff: senator bernie sanders, we thank you very much. >> thank you. welcome, gentlemen. so we just >> woodruff: that interview from this afternoon. we take a close look now at this stunner of a week in american politics with shields and brooks.

that's syndicated columnist mark shields, and "new york times" columnist david brooks. heard from a feisty bernie sanders. we're going to talk about him in a minute, but i first want to ask you about, i guess, kind of an earth quake that happened this week that many people thought wouldn't come, the presumptive nominee of the republican party, david, is donald trump. i won't say if anybody in this room predicted he might not make this -- reach this point, but what does it say that here he is against all odds? >> i'd like to assure you that he will not get the nomination. (laughter) you know, it says a lot of things. it says the republican establishment has been coasting on the fumes of reaganite philosophy which are not relevant to the day. america is longing for a country that is never coming back where a white male ideal is the top of society and that's never coming back and they're looking for a white male to remind them of those days. it says a lot of people hurt for

legitimate reasons. they've seen their jobs go, families go, drug addiction, unemployment, and pessimistic about the future and are willing to take a flyer on the guy. there are a lot of reasons he's here. i don't think he's a legitimate candidate or would be a legitimate president but what he's done has to be respected to some degree. >> judy, i think we missed the story, in the sense that we never examined the program sees that the republican party has been organized around -- aggressive foreign policy and muscular defense policy, interventionists, a commitment to smaller government, and not open immigration but certainly, considerably welcoming immigration policy, and tax cuts. and donald trump went right by this argument. he basically did. he repealed the republican interventionist defense foreign

policy and, you know, emphasized his own opposition to the war in iraq, and echoed some of the sentiments that the president himself has. i mean, our allies have to do more. they have to contribute more to their own defense, and the responsibilities. but i would say beyond that, what he did was he put government -- this is henry olson the conservative scholar's analysis, i think it's a good one, he advocates a government that is on the side of the people who are hurting, the people david described. he's not going to change social security, he's going to strengthen associate and make sure it's there and medicare is there and at the same time he's going to use it to getta aggressive opposition to trade policies, where these people in many cases as david mentioned have been the collateral damage. the big picture has been good. there are communities and families and individuals all over this country, and he spoke to them in a way that really

neither party has and, you know, i think that has to be acknowledged, and just remarked upon. it's an amazing achievement what he's done. he's transformed the republican electorate nominating the president. >> well, david, based on what mark is saying and you touched on this a minute ago, i mean, what is the organizing principle for the republican party or people who vote republican? >> well, i happen to figure the republican party is in a moment of cataclysmic darkness. but it's in a moment of pre-revolutionary moment that we'll probably have a cat clissum in the fall for the party and a moment of ferment where all different kinds of people speak for the party and we'll have a scientific revolution and a new party will emerge in five years but i suspect it won't be donald trump because there is no policy there. there is trump the personality but when he goes away, that's gone. what interests me about what he presents to the party that could

last is a weird mixture of pessimism -- build a wall, pull in american roles abroad -- and optimism. trump supporters like the optimism, make america great again, you can't believe how great we're going to be. there's a weird mixture of fear and hope he embodies as a person. the other thing i'm thinking about is the next six months. we've seen in the last day him training fire on lindsey graham and jeb bush. that's going to be focused on hillary clinton for six months. what's that did going to do to our politics, the way she reacts, to the american psyche to have probably a level of personal viciousness that we actually haven't seen before because he does erase all the rules. that's going to have some permanent effect on the divisions in this country and probably at least in the short term not for the better. >> woodruff: what about that, mark? does it make any difference that the leading likes in the republican party are clearly not

with him, the two former living republican presidents, both presidents bush, mitt romney, john mccain are not going to the convention, they're not getting involved. does that matter? >> yes, it speaks volumes. these are privileged observers who know the man. it's unthinkable that george w. bush the most recent republican president could support him. this is a man, donald trump, who on the eve to have the the south carolina primary in the debate accused george w. bush of simply not having been negligent in the invasion of iraq, but of deliberately and consciously knowing there were no weapons wf mass destruction and sending americans into combat and death. that is such a charge of such magnitude and such seriousness there is no way you could even stand in the same room with such a person which george w. bush understandably does not want to do. but to david's point, what

you're going to get i think from trump is it's the reality tv, sort of the wives of jersey shore, no thought goes, no matter how shallow, goes unexpressed. lindsey graham said he couldn't vote for him today. fine, let it go. but he has to respond in kind. this is a man who's going to need, in our current political climate, 90%-plus of republicans to have any kind of a chance to be competitive, and he doesn't have them now, and, you know, i just don't think if you're going to continue to snipe and gripe and just denigrate and demean other republicans that you're ever going to get him. >> do you think there will be a third-party move on the part of conservatives, david? >> no, there is not enough self-confidence to do that. there is not enough organizational structure. right now the republicans who

were non-trump are deeply immobilized. i think they will sit and avoid and hope to survive. >> woodruff: but there are tough decisions republicans will be making in the weeks ahead. >> it's especially tough if you're a republican running for congress. we now have nationalized our elections to the point where people vote the same way for president they vote for congress, and there is very little overlap, and if donald trump is going to be in trouble in your district, you know, that's a problem for republicans. >> woodruff: so let's talk about the democrats, david. we just heard from bernie sanders. he didn't show any signs of slowing down. he's going to fight to the last dog dies, i guess, as somebody would put it. what do we have happening here in the democratic race for president? >> well, hillary clinton's pretty weak. i:fess, i was surprised by her loss in indiana. usually, once it sort of gets settled, the party coalesces, but that is not happening, in

part because he has his issues, his following, and in part because she just hasn't been able to rally and inspire. and her base, her supporters, it's almost demographically defined, not intellectually or emotionally defined. she gave a speech in west virginia this week which in some levels was a fine speech but sounded like every other people you've heard and the political proposals in there were fine, you know, expand community college, let's look at job training programs, they were fine, but they did not inspire an interest, they did not seem new or fresh, and this is a year where freshness is really called for because of the mood of the country, and, so, i think imaginatively, se has not risen to the moment and still has not risen to this moment. she's now training fire on trump and that will probably be enough, but in terms of inspiring people for an agenda when and if she becomes president is not really there. >> what do you see happening? i disagree in the sense that what have been her liabilities

in the primaries, and bernie sanders has a remarkable story, in that he has 18 primary and caucus victories when people had written him off before. >> woodruff: and more. est virginia and arlington, according to poll information. so, you know, 20 heading into california. it's remarkably impressive, 2.4 million contributors and all the rest of it. but in a strange way, hillary clinton's likabilities, the lack of incitement, the long resume, the predict and stability could become great assets in a general election running against this material, flamboyant figure. it's going to look like, wow, that's bedrock i think to a lot of american voters, even ones right now who don't like her, don't intend to vote for her, she is going to look like the beacon, the island in a contest if it is a trump-clinton race,

and i think it is a strength of hers, her stability and predictability and stole id commitment to policy and facts and background. i think that in a strange way what has been a liability could be a great asset. >> woodruff: could that work to her benefit? she still has to deal with sanders. >> candidates generally vote for the candidate of order, the one who seems safest, and next to mr. thermonuclear, self-implosion donald trump, yes, she does seem safe. so she's likely to win, obviously. but as a president, being the status quo, being sitting on the course is probably still not watt the country wants and, so, i do think, if i were her, i would think where can i be more daring than i have been, and who can i hire that's more daring than i have been if because sanders has big ideas, trump has ideas that are big but hollow,

but all the sensible people have really small ideas, and i think she's included in that, and, frankly, paul ryan is, too, right, now. i think his instincts are right. people have been constrained in the last twenty years of what we can think about. the ideas coming out of people that are respectable are not big and daring. >> woodruff: speaker ryan, at this point he said he's not ready to support trump. >> no, bernie has a big idea, tree tuition at colleges, that's an idea sponsored by another member of congress, justin morrow, in 1862 in the middle of the civil war, and we built the university of california, one of the great university systems that's produced 81 nobel prize winners. but we're a time of small, timid ideas and have been. i mean, barack obama had big ideas in 2009 and 2010, and the voters spoke rather resoundingly

in 2010, and he has not had anywhere near a working majority in the congress since. >> woodruff: well, i covered 2010. i didn't cover the vermont politician in the 1800s. >> that was free tuition. that was abraham lincoln signing. the gross domestic product then was $7 billion and we did it. isn't that remarkable? and we can't do it now? >> how does he know all this? >> woodruff: he was there! (laughter) david brooks, mark shields, thank you. >> woodruff: finally tonight, pianist and composer rob kapilow returns, this time to discuss 19th century german pianist and composer johannes brahms, who would have celebrated a birthday tomorrow. first, here is noted pianist emanuel ax playing brahms'

intermezzo in a major, opus 118 number 2. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> brown: at the signature theater in arlington, virginia, rob kapilow talked with jeffrey brown about what makes brahms' music so beautiful-- and enduring. >> brown: rob kapilow, welcome back. >> thanks so much for having me. >> brown: johannes brahms, a man and his music, right. you picked one of his famous piano pieces. >> i did. but you know, the thing is, to get at the heart of brahms' music is difficult because to get at the heart of who brahms was as a person is difficult. >> brown: brahms the man. >> brahms the man.

i mean, according to all contemporary accounts, he was sarcastic, prickly, abrupt, utterly self-guarded, almost impossible to get to know. and the same thing is actually true of this piece. this is the second piece in a set of six pieces, but the first piece is, like brahms himself, dense, filled with swirling energy, complicated, dark, and he has to sort of wrestle it into submission to end the piece like this: ♪ ♪ and then one long chord. ♪ ♪ >> brown: that's the end of part one. >> end of part one. but in a way it's also the beginning of part two, because that last chord is actually the first chord of our song. but it's not just a shared chord, it's as if somehow brahms had to work through the complexity, turbulence and struggle of this first piece-- in order to sing from the heart in the second. just like brahms himself. in fact there's this fantastic quote that he himself acknowledges. he says, "have i not often told you how seldom i succeed in getting my thoughts out of my heart and onto paper. it is exactly the same with my composing. it simply won't flow from my heart."

>> brown: this is to clara schumann. >> this is to clara schumann, the closest person in his life, but though he may have felt that the music wouldn't flow from his heart, when you hear the first phrase of this second piece, nothing could sound more straight from the heart than this exquisite music. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> brown: so what's going on there? >> the thing that's so amazing is, when you just hear it, it sounds like simple, spontaneous melody, couldn't be more-- sounds like simple, spontaneous melody, straight from the heart. >> brown: the passion, the emotion. >> all there. but like always with brahms, even his most lyrical melodies tend to be almost mathematically constructed out of these tiny, microscopic, developable ideas. this one is based on two tiny, anti-romantic ideas. what i'll call "1, 2, up"-- it's important for you to learn these technical vocabulary-- "1, 2, up" and then same two notes, last one changed, "1, 2, leap."

so just "1, 2, up" and then "1, 2, leap." now you won't know it until the last incredible measure of this song, but "1, 2, up" really wants to resolve to "1, 2, down." but the first time he puts that note up an octave, so instead of "1, 2, down" and resolution, we get yearning. and not only that, there's this leap in the right hand that really exaggerates it, "1, 2, up," all brahms' yearning is in that one thing. >> brown: maybe to clara, oh what i want to say to you. >> it's all the stuff he could never say in his real life, is right there in that leap. it's the desire for intimate communication, wanting to say more, but then all filtered through this supremely accomplished, almost mathematically precise technique. i mean, take the climax of this piece. it sounds utterly heartfelt. ♪ ♪ everything he always wanted to say to clara right here. then he marks, "singing, singing."

but though it sounds straight from the heart, it's constructed with mathematical precision. so we come back to "1 2 up" at the very end of the piece, down here in the middle now. "1 2 up." every other time it's gone "1 2 leap," but it wants to go "1 2 down." and we get both at the same time in one rolled chord. we get "1 2," first we get down, and then we get leap. and you have heart and mind perfectly combined, emotion and technique. we resolve and we yearn at the same time. >> brown: johannes brahms, through rob kapilow. thank you. >> thank you. >> woodruff: on the newshour online right now, you may want to take another look in your freezer: the centers for disease control has warned that frozen vegetables and fruits may be the cause of a listeria outbreak,

prompting a recall of 350 products sold under 42 different brands. you can find four things you should know about the bacteria, on our web site, www.pbs.org/newshour. and a reminder about some upcoming programs from our pbs colleagues. later tonight on "washington week" with gwen ifill: will some republicans rally behind hillary clinton? and can donald trump win over democratic voters? answers and analysis tonight on "washington week." on tomorrow's edition of pbs newshour weekend, "operation peacemaker," a program in richmond, california that pays at-risk young men to stay out of trouble. >> try to imagine growing up in a war zone. bullets flying. >> reporter: richmond police believed that most of the shootings could be blamed on just a couple dozen young men. when you pay them this stipend, are you just, in a sense, rewarding bad behavior? >> every bit of the stipend that they receive is tied to an

accomplishment. now, if the question is, "why should these young men get that?" >> reporter: why should they? i mean, there's a lot of guys out there who haven't committed crimes. >> because they need it more than that guy. >> woodruff: that's tomorrow night on pbs newshour weekend. and we'll be back, right here, on monday. come along as we follow the trail of our electronic-waste. discover how your old computer and printer, that you dropped off to be recycled, may not end up where it's supposed to. that's the newshour for tonight. i'm judy woodruff. have a great weekend. thank you, and good night. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> fathom travel-- carnival corporation's small ship line. offering seven-day cruises to three cities in cuba. more at fathom.org.

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