>> rose: welcome to the program. we begin this evening with the president of the united states in orlando. here's the cbs evening news with scott pelley and their coverage. >> the 49, ages 18 to 50 were killed sunday morning in the massacre at pulse, a gay nightclub. of the more than 50 others who were wounded, 28 are still in the hospital. tonight six of them are in critical condition. homeland security correspondent jeff peggest has the latest on the information. >> gun store own robert abel says in the weeks before the orlando shooting omar mateen tried to buy body armour at his gun shop. mateen was told the store didn't sell body armor. >> at this time he pulled away and got on to the cell phone. when he was on his cell phone, he had a conversation in a

foreign language that was of more concern. then he came back and he was requesting ammo. >> reporter: able says his employees were so concerned they called the fbi. authorities say the gun store was not able to provide them with a name. on the night of the shooting an official familiar with the time line tells cbs news that mateen was active on social media before and during the rampage. time records show that prior to the shoot magazineteen posted on facebook, alliance to isis leader abu al baghdadi. then after the shooting began, mateen paused and sources say he searched for pulse, orlando, and shooting. perhaps to see if a massacre was trendk online. he also made calls to 911 and to a television staitionz about the ongoing shooting. investigators are focusing on what role mateen's woif might have played in the attack. she has been cooperating. but officials believe she had some knowledge of an attack and will likely face some charges. school records show that omar

mateen was a troubled child and a disciplinary problem. he was suspended for 48 total days while in high school. most were for fighting and other rule-violations. in an application for a college criminal justice program, mateen wrote that he wanted a career in law enforcement as far back as 2004. he wrote that in 9th grade i got into a fight with a fellow student in class. i was expelled. he admitted he had been arrested and the subject of a criminal investigation. but did not elaborate. he also admitted to using marijuana and steroids. in 2007 mateen was dismissed from a job at the florida department of corrections. it is unclear why. the fbi is talking to other family members including mateen's father, scott, a former boss tells cbs news that pateen told her he could quote do nothing right in his father's eyes and that his father complained that he didn't have any direction in his life. she also said a fellow employee

told her mateen became quote crazy and violent when he drank. >> jeff pegu es in washington, thank you. cbs news has now obtained a video of the scene inside the nightclub, as people hid from the gunman. here's jamie yukas. >> this grainy cell phone video captures the horror from inside the bim's bathroom as omar pateen went on a shooting rampage nearby. it was recorded while more than a dodz people squeezed into one stall. some of them already shot, sharing a glass of water, trying to keep each other calm and quiet so they would not be heard by the gunman. migel filmed this video. >> we had to be quiet because everybody whose phone was ringing, any noise he heard he was going in that direction and shooting people and killing them. >> reporter: they huddled for three hours refusing pateen's orders to step out.

>> it was really hot in there. the smell of blood and just dead bodies everywhere. >> reporter: outside the building, swat commander captain mark canty planned a rescue. >> during that entire time period officers were rescuing ings to get people out.oing got a lot of people out before that last breach. those trapped in the bathroom had no escape route. and as they desperately texted their families and police, the hostages became the swat team's main focus. >> recording the video was in case, i didn't think i was going to make it, i thought i was going to die. i figured you know what, somebody has no to know what really happened. >> we knew they were in the bathroom, we knew, we thought there would be some in the bathroom. some in the bathroom across the hall am we were et going information there were people in other rooms inside the club. >> reporter: finally canty's team moved in, breaching a wall with a front end loader. there was a shootout. mateen was shot dead.

and those who were still alive were dragged to safety. angel colon had been shot five times and was one of the last people to get out. >> i'm one of the ones that helped you. >> reporter: today he met his hero, officer omar del gado. >> i just saw him, his glasses, help me, please. and when he was dragging me out, can i just look up in time, just hurry, please hurry, go, hurry. >> reporter: this public memorial as become so important to the city of orlando that with rain now coming down, they protected it with plastic. scott, grief counselors are not just making themselves available to family and friends of the victims and survivors but to anyone in this community who need help with this tragedy. >> rose: and here is more from president obama's speech. >> four days ago this community was shaken by an evil and hateful act. today we are reminded of what is

good. that there is compassion, and empathy, and de sensey. -- is he sensee and most of all there is love. that is the orlando that we've seen in recent days and that is the america that we have seen. we will continue to be relentless against terrorist groups like isil and al-qaeda. we are going to destroy them. we are going to disrupt their networks and their fansing, and the flow of fighters. in and out of-- we're going to disrupt their propaganda that poisons so many minds around the world. we're going to do all that. our resolve is clear. but given the act that-- fact

that the last two terrorist attacks on our soil, orlando and san bernardino were home grown, carried out t appears, not by external plotters, not by vast networks, or sophisticated cells, but by deranged individuals warped by the hateful propaganda that they had seen over the internet, that we're going to have to do more to prevent these kinds of events from occurring. it's going to take more than just our military. it's going to require more than just our intelligence. as good as they are, as dedicated as they are, as focused as they are, if you have lone wolf attacks like this, hatched in the minds of a

disturbed person, then we're going to have to take different kinds of steps in order to prevent something like this from happening. now those who were killed and injured here were gunned down by a single killer with a powerful assault weapon. the motives of this killer may have been different than the mass shooters in aurora or newtown. but the instruments of death were so similar. and now another 49 innocent people are dead. another 53 are injured. some are still fighting for their lives. some will have wounds that will last a lifetime we can't

anticipate or catch every single deranged person that may wish to do harm to his neighbors or friends or coworkers or strangers. but we can do something about the amount of damage that they do. unfortunately, our politics have con spired to make it as easy as possible for a terrorist or just a disturbed individual like those in aurora-- and newtown. to buy extraordinarily powerful weapons. and they can do so legally. >> rose: also this evening joshua cooper ramo, his book is called "the seventh sense, power, fortune and survival in

the age of networks." >> i wanted to try to understand the question i was interested in is, first of all, what's the scale of what we are going through now. having come particularly from the world of journalism where we have seen the incredible upheaval that happened in that space because of technology, and you look at so many different worlds and you see them being changed by connectivity, i wanted to understand what was going on inside these connected systems. why was it some people had to look at a connected system and see the dynamics. >> rose: we conclude with dag kittlaus, the founder of viv and also the man who created siri and then sold it to apple. >> now we're talking about our official intelligence in more of a wikipedia like following. where anyone can decide that they want to build something be it a large company, a bank can create a new way to interact with their own customers or any individual can go in and plug in johnie's soccer schedule. which field is the game on, on saturday. so the difference there is that this system is built from the

ground up to be able to handle the world of people and developers to teach and that of course allows for that explosion of capabilities. >> president o bma in orlando, joshua cooper ramo and dag kittlaus when we continue. >> funding for charlie rose is provided by the following: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose.

joshua cooper ramo is here, cochief executive officer and vice chairman of kissinger associates. he began his career as a journalist and was the youngest foreign editor in time magazine history. his new book "the seventh sense power fortune and survival in the age of networks qutionz. it explores the way a rapidly connected world will shape the future. i'm pleased to have joshua cooper ramo at this table again. welcome. >> pleasure to be here. >> rose: let me ask this. so why did leave journalism. what is wrong with you. >> exactly. i ask myself that many times. you know, i love being a journalist. i love being foreign editor of time, particularly for walter isaacson. i had the kind of personality that i wanted to go deep. i had a little bit of maybe an academic streeblg in my personality. as i looked around the world and saw what was going on, i said you know, it would be fascinating to know more about china. i moved there. what i could never have anticipated is i would fall in love with the country, that it would be as gripping as it is, that i would have the chance to do what i wanted to do. but everything i wanted when i

left journalism which was to really understand the complex-- why do you think that. >> i think when i looked around the world. hi been the tech editor of time, and i had seen what happens when you have a giant force that emerges in just totally changes the rules of the game. and i loved. >> as did you in technology. >> as i did in technology. i loved covering that. it was an incredible experience as a journalist. i looked around the world and said what stories are there like this. in 2 thousand and 2001 it seemed china was likely to be that. >> you about you went over there to do what? >> i went over there just knowing i wanted to leave journalism. >> you wanted to dig down. >> get into the commercial world. and so i also knew i needed to learn to speak the language. so i took a year sab at kal, studied chinese eight hours a day and didn't know what i would do at the end of it. i was luckily to get an advisory job working with john thornton, i spent a couple of years with john and henry. >> he had the commitment to china. >> very deep. an henry who i think is the iconic westerner in thinking

about china offered me a partnership in his firm and that was not anything i was going to say no to. since then it's just been an incredible information. >> how much of your time is spent there. >> i used to be there 70, 80% of the time, since i became coc.e.o., that is down to maybe 40% of the time. i still have that feeling. i never feel like i don't want to get on the plane to china it is the most interesting place in the world. >> and it has not changed. >> that level of interest. >> right, first of all, you know it's much more interesting as a story now. it just gets more complex and more interesting. before i moved to china, somebody gave this advice. they said as important as being by lingual is being by cultural. and that advice changed everything. i mean all of my friends that are chinese, i spend time with ex-pats. every time i go back there you feel are you reentering this incredible puzzle that is fascinating. the emergence of a new superpower is kind of a once every two or three hundred years phenomenon in the international system. it is not clear how this one

will work out. but the chance to sort of observe that from zero distance nge is really very special and historical experience. >> st an interesting point. it is going to be disruptive but we don't know what the-- all the ramifications are. >> that's right. and i think we don't have an intellectual model it is one thing to think about, people tend to an all giez to the emergence of germany and the position of britain a hundred years ago. but the industrial world rules a power very different from those from an informational world. we can't an all giez. there are things to learn from those examples but the background in which this is happening, is not an environment where nothing is changing. in fact possibly part of the largest revolution since the entity-- enlightment-- . >> rose: one of the this interesting things, you talked about the culture and the cultural differences, your closeness to henry kissinger, he's also emphasized in conversations with me, understanding the cultural

place. >> yeah. >> rose: that political leaders come from. >> absolutely. and the psychological. have i never found somebody who is a more acute student of psychology than henry. that was one of the things when i started working there which is most surprising to me. the amount of time i spent trying to understand what is the landscape he spends what is the historical landscape, the intellectual landscape, the cultural landscape in which somebody operateds. that is important from his diplomatic perspective because the stakes are so high when he is thinking about grands strategy questions. but it totally changes the way you look at a problem. you don't look at a commercial problem you because our firm is a commercial firm, you try to understand the context in which it is embedded. it turns out that happens to be the key to success for any likely to succeed commercial project in china is better informed if it has that background. >> rose: what is the product of your firm. >> the product of our fimple, i think, is helping people navigate, particularly i say in china, complex commercial transactions. so it is as you probably know-- . >> rose: to understand the dynamics.

>> and figure out structurally it is a dynamic, rapidly changing environment there. and to find ways to have commercial arrangements of scale that are long-term sustainable and benefit everybody, takes an understanding of the partners, takes an understanding of the environment, takes an understanding of sometimes tactical issues like what are going on in terms of tax structures and regulations am but if part of the process of the chinese evolution. i don't think there is any more interesting way to kind of take the pulse of the country than to be doing deal there and having watched a decade and a half of the evolution of what a transaction in china looks like today as opposed to 15 years ago. >> rose: they're much more open today? >> yeah, so it's less-- in certain areas much more open. i think you are seeing the emergence of chinese firms that are and chinese business executives. some of them you have had here who are much more capable as operators of businesses than when i moved there 15 years ago. so just the general maturity of the system is growing. having said that, it is in the

midst of the most complicated economic reform program in human history. having lifted 400 million people out of poverty that now have this problem of how do you get more and more people into the middle class. >> rose: but they bring with them demands which drives your economy. >> all of it. and that kind of feedback, this is what is really interesting. the minute you get out of beijing or shanghai in particular and see what is going on in other parts of the country and watch the kind of feeds of reform trying to kind of come out of the ground and grow, you really get a sense of both pot tension of the economy but also the incredible challenges that lie ahead. >> rose: tell me about the seventh sense. the subtitle, power, fortune and sur rival in-- survival in the age of networks. we have gone through an industrial revolution, the information revolution and it therefore has created new shaping institutions, alliances, and relationships which have more impact, you argue, than any other sort of element. >> yeah, i wanted to try to understand, the question i was

interested in is first of all what is the scale of what we are going through now? having come particularly from the world of journalism where we have seen incredible upheaval that happened in that space because of technology and you look at so many different worlds and you see them being changed by connectivity, i wanted to understand ba was going on inside these connected systems and why was it some people had to look at a connected system and see the dynamics. >> so connected systems, a network of any kind is any set of connected points so that can be people. it can be voters. it can be citizens of new york, it can be businesses that operate in bitcoin. we live in a world where you are seeing an explosion of these interconnected linked meshes. >> in some cases very different interests but the idea is that you have many systems that are now kind of operating together. and they often create surprising results. if we sat here a year ago and said who is most likely to be the republican nominee, would you have thought the guy with two presidents in the family and four decades of political

experience and connections to the republican party. >> exactly. as opposed to the guy with 5 million twitter followers and reality television show background. that represented a connection to a set of networks that were largely invisible to the way of thinking. >> so if you want to explain them, would you argue from that. if you want to explain donald trump's success in the republican primaries, you explain his reliance on twitter as a means of communication because it created its own trump network within twitterdom. >> that's right. not just that but the particular nature, we know networks crave certain things. for instance one thing is that constanceee. we are all now constantly checking our exmail or facebook, if we think about financial markets they move instantly. >> rose: we think about what is trending today. >> right what is the latest thing that happens. it is important when we talk about networks, it's not just the internet. one of the things the networks want is constant update. trump's ability to be always in the headlines, to use twitter to stay at the top of people's news

feeds. >> rose: it is interesting now, the polls out in the last couple of days as we taped this on wednesday afternoon, it is that there is a growing gap between secretary clinton and donald trump. >> this is what will make this election so interesting. as you start to see networks growing opposed to the trump network, it really is a battle of networks. one of the things people say about networks is it takes a network to defeat a network. and one way to understand this election, just almost understand anything these days is what are the various networks and how are they interacting. this is part of this idea. >> rose: i assume it's also about numbers. there is in a sense you could argue part of that network, the ascending, the attending-- ascending demographics. between latinos, women and young. >> she owned more than he does. >> right. and could you watch actually when the remarks about the judge cur yel came out. could you see this other network begins to grow and gain strength

as a result of that. network science shows us a tremendous amount of how these function. >> rose: what is interesting to, we mentioned earlier, i was at the china development forum which you were as well. all we wanted to know, american politics. specifically donald trump. >> yeah. >> rose: they created a session tor for me to do just to talk about donald trump. it's amazing. so how do they see trump. >> there are a couple of things. the first question is also why does american politics matter so much in china or the rest of the world it turns out this is another network property which is one of the things that happened in networks is there are certain become essential for the operation of the network. and often really have a lot of concentrated power. if you look around the world today there are eight different connected systems that have more than a billion users, facebook, youtube, they have a very unusual property which is the more successful they get, the more of a monopoly they become in a sense. there is no second place to

facebook or youtube. so the centrality of these particular powers, turns out everybody thinks what the networks do is distribute power, he can with do more on our phones than ever before and that's true. >> it is a dem october advertising. >> and create this incredible concentration. all eight of those billion user platforms are american platforms and if you begin to analyze its world in network term, not just internet but currency, trade, all these other things, what happens in the united states turns out to be essential as we know for everywhere in the world, not industrial terms but it is this central network knowed. what the chinese understand is that issue which is the importance of how the united states operates. i think there are a couple of reasons they are fascinated by. i think one is, is this one which is that they know that so much of the international system depends on the healthy functioning of this centralized system. and the second is i think like everybody, they're trying to understand what is happening with u.s. politics. >> rose: because they think it influences them. >> it influences them and there is a deeper question running through all of that, which is the question i was trying to get at in the book when it comes to

foreign policy, which is what is the future of united states in the international future. >> an all aspects of it, currency, everything else w trade, currency. >> continue to be this superpower that has a dominant position in the system or, in fact, are we entering a period where there is a theory in international relations that every hundred years, power is handed off to one another so the dutch hand off to the spanish, to the french. >> you think the rising power always discusses. >> exactly it turns out that is an accurate description over the last 500 years-of-your mean history. the u.s. took over from the british. there are a lot of people wondering who takes over for the u.s a but if you look at all of human history particularly from a chinese perspective, what you find is there are countries and systems that dominate for hundreds of years, the roman empire, the syrians, the moguls. i core of the chinese philosophy is where is the u.s. on this scale. is this a declining power. >> the rising power against the

establishment. >> rose: the interesting thing about this too is in the last week as a commercial transaction, microsoft bought linkedin for 26.2 billion dollars. what does linkedin have? it has 320 million people. >> yeah. >> rose: who are part of a network. >> right. >> rose: that network. but these are people in business and enterprise. it's not like facebook which is every teenager and everybody else around. >> what it has, also what it has is data. and that in the future really turns out to be valuable. if you look at what slt next of these billion user platforms, facebook we know the more people use t the better it get, the more people use it. we'll see that happen in the world of artificial intelligence as well which is probably the next great platform. the more people using the smarter it gets, the more people use it. so linkedin in that world suddenly becomes just a wonderful data mine for how people interact, where they are going, how they think about things. >> rose: you also say any time you plug something into the

network, you forever alter its nature. >> yeah. are you what you are connected to. and i think the main example of this for all of us now, you know, we see this now with the horrible domestic activated terrorism. in orlando is that the minute you connected to the world, you have no idea where you are connected to, so it brings risks back at it, at you at the same time it brings opportunity. and just accept that is a feature. >> it creates influences you have no idea. >> rose: i was struck by the language of the gunman in orlando. i mean he had been inspired by, he had been influenced by. he was i think he said some of the term of he was-- connected to. >> right. >> rose: isil. >> no, connection, that is the ability to remotely, if you look at the history of-- my last book i began with spending time with the chief technology officer of hezbollah. and if you just think about the evolution of terrorism from

hezbollah to al-qaeda, to isis, you are mapping really the technological evolution. >> and we know this because of what's happened with in san bernardino that presented one of the questions but in paris, where they are using apps that are encrypted. >> right. >> rose: providing a huge new problem for law enforcement. >> right. and it just changes, all of this technology. >> rose: an bad guys use the technology the same way good guys do. >> we have issues issues with d, all these things, it changes the fundamental nature of what you face. having said that, if you think about the long-term position of the united states, the greatest threat we face is not terrorism, terrorism is not going to wipe out the united states. it's not like facing russia, it is not an existential threat. it is a psychological warfare. the only existential threat that faces the united states today is the emergence of these networks for trade, finance, dna, data. and as long as the u.s. can

maintain that central potionz, these are the things that will matter. >> rose: any guarantee we can do that? >> a lot of it depends on basic architectural questions. >> rose: but it also depends on the quality of educational institutions. >> exactly. >> rose: united states has 18 of the best 20. >> educational institution, value of society that encourage innovation, all these other things. it's not an accident that the 8 billion user platforms are all american platforms. if you ask to say, if you had to have a picture in your head of the international system, 15 or to years time, and we know it's going to be different because the one thing we know as we look around the system today is the legitimacy of every existing institution is just collapsing whether it is the-- or congress, something has to be builtment a not bad picture is a set of the interconnected communities, these gate-kept worlds that run on certain values. and they will all have this property that the more people esident obama long ago.ewedet. and i am askk this question that you believe the united states has the best military, the best technology, the biggest and best

economy. down the line. and say what could go wrong. and he said our politics could go wrong. >> yeah. >> rose: we have to fix our politics or we cannot, because if your politics are frozen, and you are even not withstanding networks and everything else, there is the limit in your capacity to apply all the networks. >> yeah. very hen rekissinger, the great line of henry, the acid test of any foreign policy is its ability to withstand domestic politics. that is 100 percent right in this case. the networks are doing to politics and economics thing that are in the helpful to this cause. that is why we have to learn to design them in a better way, to avoid these problems. >> rose: congratulations. the seventh sense say book, joshua cooper ramo. he was the author of another book which was an international best seller called the ages age-of-its unthinkable, subtitle here, power, fortune and survival in the age of networks, thank you. >> thanks, a pleasure, always. >> rose: back in a moment, stay with us. dag kittlaus is

here, c.e.o. and cofounder of viv, a new generation virtual assistant powered by artificial intelligence. its goal is to open ai, artificial intelligence to the world and quote enable everyone to talk to everything. writing for medium john pattale said what viv is triking to create is a platform shift on the scale of goggle search over apple's app store. a new way to interact with the internet itself. kittlaus previously cofounded siri, the groundbreaking voice assistant technology purchased by apple in 2010. i am pleased to have him at this table for the first time. welcome. >> thanks so much, charlie. >> rose: ai assistance. lay out the landscape for me. >> well, so actually the vision for this type of par dime has

been-- paradigm has been inspired by hollywood. since the days of hall 9,000, only nicer is the goal this time around. and then apple came out with something called the knowledge navigator which has been an inspiration for a lot of people in this as well. which is kind of a scenario that they visualized, talked about, had this person come into a room and was essentially the virtual assistant that we are all shooting to build today. but now we've got-- we launched this independently in 2010. and soon after apple acquired us and really brought this to the world. so ever since then, now every one of the top tech companies is spending billions of dollars from what i call the race to the single interface. >> rose: what does that mean sth. >> that means that when you can talk to something, a computer, a device, it knows you. it is such a natural interaction. it's just a simpler way to do

things. because of that, more and more, more and more devices, more and more services want to be a part of being that simple to use. and that sort of becomes a paradigm in and of itself. so talking to things becomes the future way to interact with almost any kind of device and any kind of service. it's just simpler. >> rose: five years and then we'll be doing what. >> all sorts of things. you are already talking to some-- everyone starts and thinks about the phone. because of siri. but you'll be talking to your car. you will be-- there is a billion hours of wasted commute time just sitting in traffic in the united states every year. so why not christmas shop while you are in there, talking to your assistant and telling what to do and who to send it to and what to put on the card am or ordering food that will be ready to be-- that's going to ten minutes behind you when you get home in the car. so that would be like an in-car scenario for what the systems might do. >> rose: you have said the

goal for viv is ubiquity. >> yes. so he with want to enable all the device-makers. we've had people like toy companies come to us and say i want to have a teddy bear that helps us teach our children how to do math. to really cool idea. i just don't know how to do the talking to part. so this is sort of a scares resource that we want to unleash and let anyone who wants to apply it to any kind of device do that. and they build a market place of services around it, so developers can come in and plug in, essentially, to viv and becomes thousands of times more powerful than anything. >> rose: did you develop siri outside of apple and then it was purchased by apple? >> correct. actually, the technology for siri was originally sri which is-- sru international, a stanford research. and we spun that out in 2008 and

we started a company, startup, and worked down and perfected that to the first real consumer product which we then launched in 2010. and about three weeks later, i was going out to lunch and plie business guy came in and said you know scott forstall from apple would like to talk to you. and i said great. and my phone rang and i saw it was from coopertino. if you have an iphone, you know how you have to swipe it, well, it kept bouncing back t wouldn't answer the phone it was like on the seventh swipe. i picked it up and it was a gentleman that said this is steve jobs. and-- . >> rose: what did he say? >> he said in a nutshell we love what you are doing. can you come over to my house tomorrow. love to talk to you about it. >> rose: and what did you do? >> i grabbed my two founders and went and spent three hours with steve in front of his fireplace talking about the future. he made the case for how

iphone was going to win the smartphone wars. and how we could work together to change the way people interact with them. >> rose: and then when did they say we want to buy your company. >> we had some back and forth negotiation stuff but it was a few months later that we decided to go ahead and move forward with it. >> rose: and what role do you think it has played in the iphone? >> well, i think it was a crucial part of the 4s launch it was also introducing this new paradigm on the world in a way only apple knows how to do properly. it was very exciting to watch our baby get taken on such an international stage. and i think they did a wonderful job with it. >> rose: why did you leave to start another company? >> actually i left for over reasons. and eventually came around to talk to some other entrepreneurs, a couple of years later. we just were brain storming what was going on. we ultimately decided siri is and all of the other assistants

are really just chapter one of a much bigger, more important story. we started thinking about what would we need to do to really scale this up. how do you make this ubiquityus, what are the key aspects. >> do we question what technology we need or some other thing we need? >> well, we start with what is missing. and it's analagous to. >> what end product? >> what market. >> rose: or what ability. >> what market function would have to come, be involved with this. what technology would enable that. >> rose: right. >> so what i liken it to is the launch of the iphone in 2007 where they launched with only apple apps. there were about eight apps, the stock, clock, watch but they opened up the app store and that changed the world, unleashing third partieds, that is sort of where artificial intelligence is in the virtual assistance base. if you look at all the players out there, they all do a few dozen things and they are very

similar to each other. what we want to do is make it-- . >> rose: did i read that five apps occupy 85% of the app business. >> yeah, facebook and a few others, messaging is really big. and so yeah, there is a few apps that sort of dominate people's attention and downloads an time. >> rose: i mean is this the next paradigm? >> we believe so. and apparently every other one of the top tech companies believes so as well. >> rose: because they back it up with money and huge investments. >> i think everybody sees where this is headed. it's sort of a world that starts to move beyond the app itself. because if you think about the internet of things you are hearing about, talking to different devices in a international way -- natural way, that doesn't work in sort of an app world where you have to shall-- you are not downloading apps to your refrigerator or to your mirror in your bathroom. you need something in the cloud.

so. >> rose: on a scale of zero to a hundred, where were-- where are we in voice recognition? >> so are you family with merry makers internet. >> sure. >> she's talking about as a source, she's great. she says we're between 90 and 95% in voice recognition accuracy. i'm not sure what the parameters and where she gets the number. but as we approach 99%, quality and suddenly it becomes much more mass market phenomenon. so that's one of the keys. you have to get past a certain threshhold of quality. and then suddenly it becomes a natural thing to do because it just works. >> rose: and we have done that or are we 95% close. >> we're not there yet. we're not there yet but we're getting close enough where most people if they speak rel live-- relatively clearly it, withouts very well for. and that's evidenced by the fact that siri gets a hundred billion queeries a year, 22 billion.

>> rose: siri, tell me where. >> yeah. and-- . >> rose: what will viv do that siri can't? >> well, viv is designed as a-- we talked a little bit about to allow any third party to come in and build something new to it. so the difference today is that most of these folks decide what their road map is going to be. some product manager will lay out a road map. and they will build it. but now we're talking about our official intelligence in more of a wikipedia like model where anyone can decide that they want to build something to it. be it a large company, a bank can create a new way to interact with their own customers or any individual can go in and plug in johnny's soccer schedule and which field is the game on on saturday. so the difference there is that this system is built from the ground up to be able to handle the world of people and developers to teach, and that allows for this cam breean explosion of capabilities.

>> i saw you do a thing, a demonstration on cbs this morning which will be on tomorrow. and basically you were able to say, you know, viv, show me the flights leaving in the next half hour for. >> san francisco. >> right. the thing about it was instant it was almost like instant. >> yeah. >> so far you can do what with viv? >> so we are have a set waf we call showcase domains. so things like travel, so hotels and flights and car rentals and things associated with travel like where should i go, decision making stuff. rides like uber and events, what should do i this weekend. get me tickets through ticket master who are great partners, and buying flowers. so what we call conversational commerce. >> right. >> we find out that speaking in and of itself seven times faster than typing it. so that makes it more efficient. but when you can stream line

that whole process where just a few words and you get something done, believe me, you don't go back to the old way once you have tried it you want to get a hotel room, get me a room at this place on friday night. >> these are the specifics of the room that i like. >> yeah. and you can-- in the front, on the waterfront. >> yeah. now are you hitting on-- i suite, a junior suite. >> exactly. once you have shown some pattern towards preference on one of those t will start to learn or ask you, or you can tell it. it will just start takek care of those details. >> rose: is the technology for echo which is alexa which is amazon, whatever google is doing, whatever apple will do with siri, is the technology all the same? >> no. definitely not all the same. >> rose: the underlying technology is not the same. >> no, i mean-- . >> rose: is that what will determine who wins and loses in the end game?

>> in part. ople are really, really good at speech recognition, google is the best in the world. and newance is right there and microsoft is getting up there. i think apple is getting up there. >> rose: why did you call it viv. >> viv actually means life in several languages. so the idea is to sort of-- viv is going to breathe life into the inanimate objects and devices of your life through conversation. >> rose: your choice? >> yeah. we chose as a founding group but i. >> rose: you said it's about taking the way humans have naturally interacted with each other for thousands of years and applying that to the way they interact with surfaces. >> that's right. >> rose: that is the key. you took the way we talk to each other and said that will be the model for how we talk. >> it is the simplest way. you don't need a dreks on how to use. this it's just comes naturally to us. so you move to a place when there is enough scale here,

half and it gets to know you.re the whole thing just become this natural flow. you don't have to-- i mean compare it to what we take for granted today. so in an app world, someone has ld you about it.app, someone do then you had to go download it. then you had to sign up for it. >> rose: right. >> then you had to learn that particular user experience. so there are all these things. but there is a future where you will just essentially talk to the devices in your life and ask it to do something that you want it to be done without even knowing who might be able to help you do it. that helps discover new capabilities. >> rose: how much of this will be mobile? >> oh, i think a lot, practically speaking, a large percentage of people will use their mobile phone tor it but you will also start talking to your house through things like alex blanca i think will you see light bull bees, it will be an easy thing. >> the first thing i do when i get up, i must be like no one or everything, the first thing i do

is say alexa what is the temperature in new york city today. >> yeah. exactly. why do you do that? >> rose: because i want to know instantly. >> and it's the easiest way to do it. >> rose: and their genius was the alexa voice is pleasant. >> it is a fabulous piece of technology. so they spent a lot of time building what they call far field microphones so you can speak, you can understand you from across the room am you can talk over the top of music with the eco, it is playing. i can hear you on top of music is playing. and again, like you said, the text to speech, it just feels like a human almost. >> rose: sure. >> and those little details getting close-- . >> rose: it's everything. if i get up and say i would like to hear over the next 15 minutes just this music, it is there. >> yeah. >> rose: all of that. i believe and i know nothing about marketing and these kinds of things but the success of

echo by amazon will simply make life much better for everybody else. because it shows the possibilities. >> that's right. >> rose: you know, an as steve used to say, how many people, i will give people what they don't even know what they want. they now because of echo know they want it. >> that's right. >> rose: and those who have not yet experienced it, i know of no one who has experienced it who doesn't say it is an addition to my life that i appreciate. >> that's right, that's right. >> rose: and that is the rollout of the future. >> yeah. you're scratching the surface of what the future is going to look like. so they have come up with a great piece of technology. imagine when that can do thousands of more things without having to think about. just imagine. >> that follows you around. when you leave the house, that is in your car. >> rose: right. >> and everywhere you go, it's in your pocket. so this is the world that we're seeing and i think everyone is starting to-- . >> rose: this is elizabeth-- in "the washington post." quote over the next five years

that transition will turn smartphones and perhaps smart homes and cars and other devices into virtual assistants with supercharged conversational capabilities. powered by artificial intelligence and unprecedented volumes of data. they could become the portal through which billions of people connect to every service and every business on the internet. this is the way we're going to connect to everything else. >> right. >> rose: on the internet. >> so the rise of the assistants changes several fundamental things. it changes how you interact with the digital world in general. d of course the byproduct of that will be how it changes how revenue flows on the internet. so you know, we're going to move from what i call this discovery economy which is let me give you some examples. travel deals, so the biggest customers of the search engines are travel companies because people still go to search engines first to find deals.

but when they can stalk to an assistant, some of the largest travel companies will have a travel agent that we can enable for them. you're going to say, you know, find me a place to take my three kids and last week in march in the caribbean. and you will start a conversation and it will know your kid's ages. it will know the last five trips that you took and what your budget is. >> this is because of the increasing capacity of data mining. >> yeah, and personalization and how you apply that to getting to know you. and the ability to do more and more. so it becomes this entity and this partner in your life, this digital side kick. >> was this so important. i mean isn't it going to be hard for you to resist the billions of dollars they will throw at you because the five big company, amazon, apple, google, facebook, microsoft, i mean they all are looking for an advantage

and they have the money to afford to pay for an advantage. >> well, as you said earlier, our goal is ubiquity. and we're not going to sort of figure out exactly what road is going to take us there. i mean we feel that it was a really good decision to go with apple, with siri because apple brought this entire paradigm. they had a smartphone and they are incredible marketers and they did it in a very compelling way. so you know, i don't know exactly how this is going to pan out yet, charlie. but we are going to go for it and finish the job that we started. >> rose: beyond this, beyond this, now broadening out to a larger canvas, where is artificial intelligence going to take us? >> that's a broad question. well, i don't think we can start to comprehend all of the different applications that will come out of this. but you're going to start to see

more and more applications like the applications, when you saw things like the deep mind winning. that was supposed to be-- . >> rose: against go. >> alpha go beating-- . >> rose: am i right about that. >> yeah, that was supposed to be ten years from now, when a computer figured out how to beat-- . >> rose: because go is that complex. >> you can't compute out all the possibilities like you can in chess. how do you do it, is t is a combination of deep learning, some other classical ai techniques to do that. but that was a surprise it was a surprise that that happened so soon. so. >> rose: why did it happen so soon? >> well, because you've got some very smart people at deep mind that have applied these new techniques to this problem that dpsh-- and the exu taition power that brings along-- the-- the power it brings with it, let's

not get too out of control. i don't think that ai-- that we're doomed. >> rose: that is another subject that we talked about. show that we will teach machines to be smarter than we are and therefore it will put us at risk. >> i think broadly, though, what you can see today are things like if you're in a flight on a relatively new model plane, if both of the pilots drop dead in their seats, moses of those planes will literally fly themselves to the destination and safely land, on their own with no help whatsoever. >> rose: now or soon. >> now. >> rose: is that right. >> yeah, because. >> rose: because essentially some variation of artificial intelligence. >> that's right. this he have figured out how to fly a plane on its own to its destination, land. the only thing these programs don't do is put the reverse thrusters in after they land. because they haven't figured out how to do that safely. >> rose: so how do they land the plane. >> well, they land it but they land on longer runways and things like that, self-driving cars, that will be one of the

biggest disrupting forces that will change. >> rose: i read where larry who will not talk about this, but spent a hundred million dollars on a car that can fly, larry page. >> i have been waiting for the flying car for awhile. >> rose: have you really sphr. >> i love that idea. and i love flying. >> rose: does anybody else identify with that except larry page, the former c.e.o. or head of now alphabet. >> well, i think the current -- of drones in the early version, so delivery and all these types of things is kind of the closest thing to flying everything. i think that will create some pretty serious disruption also. you might be get aring your pizzas from a drone one of these days. >> rose: do you think they will go to the pizza place and go up and come down. >> why not, it's perfect, if something happens to a pizza, that falls on your head, are you not going to have that big-- that bad of a day, but if a car does, i think that's a different issue. >> rose: what really roadblocks, the impediments to

the forward propulsion of all of this? >> in viv's case we have to build a market. we have to build networks, competing gengs people that have billions of users. but probably you could argue not as much of a platform. so that's our particular challenge is getting the critical mass on both sides of the market so it takes off. >> rose: you have a platform and not that many users, you have users but not that platform. >> in most cases, that is where we are at today. in general i think people will get more and more-- who knows but i think people will just get more comfortable talking to their phones. so actually i have seen some conflicting studies about that. the millenials are getting more and more. >> we are not talking about it but i'm doing pieces about this for "60 minutes." >> true. >> rose: you are going to have people walk in and talk to a machine, talk to a machine about

their health and a machine will know so much and be able to refer to so many different kinds of cases and analyze them and speak back to you that it's going to blow your mind. >> yeah. >> rose: to someone who has that kind of medical information, it can tell you a range of things going on because of its capacity to compute. and because of all the data mining that it can do. >> wouldn't you use that. i will use tks i think we will all use it. >> rose: i would use anything, the idea of-- the idea much technology enabling you to live a more efficient life so that you can combine that with time freed up to do a range of other things. >> right. >> rose: whatever it is. >> and that is the large scale impact of success and what we have been talking about all day, is efficiency, del gating the things you really don't want to have to do pan allly, freeing up

time to do the things you do want to do. i think that's-- ultimately where we are going. >> rose: when do you launch viv? >> end of the year, early next year will be the first what we call a showcase. and then we'll bring developers in to start going to town and building things that we can't even imagine today like the app store. >> rose: so you are really depending on being open to developers to show all the possibilities. mbine what they do or no withn and we have charlie since some of the articles about what we are doing are coming out and showing the demo, so much more inbound interest than we could ever possibly handle that we really want to get this idea and open so people can do this in a self-service way and really start building it out. but there is an incredible, every car company, travel companies, e-commerce, consumer electronic companies see that this is the future and want to be a part of it. >> rose: thank you. great to see you. >> thanks for having me.

>> rose: can't wait to see this, back in a moment, stay with us. >> for more about this program and earlier episodes visit us online at pbs.org and charlie rose.com.

>> fujing for charlie rose is provided by the following: j by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news rand information services world i would. >> on the next charlry rose a fascinating conversation one with the olivia wilde. join us.

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