>> rose: welcome to the program. i'm charlie rose. the program is "charlie rose: the week." just ahead, the orlando shootings reignite the debate over terrorism and gun control. career diplomats level unusual criticism against president obama's policy in syria. and olivia wilde inhabits a new york music scene of the 1970s in "vinyl." >> you stand those kids up again, i will make a custody agreement that guarantees they forget you ever existed. >> don't even think about it. >> they waited for you. you will not break their heart like you did mine. >> rose: we will have those stories and more on what happened and what might happen. >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and

information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications >> this is really, really tough. >> rose: tell me the significance of the moment. >> rose: this was the week a man who described his allegiance to isis killed 49 people in an orlando nightclub in the country's deadliest maz shooting on record. here are the sights and sound of the past seven days. >> the shooting here has led to an outpouring of sympathy from around the world. >> all of our hearts are with orlando. >> we now have proposals from the presumptive republican nominee to bar all muslims from emigrating to america. >> political correctness is deadly.

and i watched president obama today, and he was more angry at me than he was at the shooter. >> what donald trump is saying is shameful. it is disrespectful to the people who were killed. >> president obama's strategy in syria is coming under fire this morning. >> the cable, signed by 51 mostly midlevel diplomats, urges airstrikes against the assad rejeeks. >> c.i.a. director john brennan saying we have not been able to stop isis from growing. >> our efforts have not reduced the group's terrorism capability and reach. >> jo cox, a member of parliament, was shot and killed wierk. >> we have lost a great star. >> in orlando police recovered the body of a two-year-old boy after he was attacked by an alligator. >> the family was distraught but also somewhat relieved he was located. >> egyptair officials say the wreckage of flight 804 has been

discovered. >> we represent millions of people around the world that believe in you. are you not alone. you are not alone. >> love makes us strong. love gives us courage to act. love gives us hope that change is possible, so love your country. love your family. love the families and the victims and the people of orlando. but let's remember that love say verb, and to love means to do something. >> rose: 49 people were killed when a self-described follower of isis, omar mateen, opened fire inside a gay club in orlando oned is night. the ramifications of that are still being felt. president obama has traveled to orlando to consociety families of the victims. donald trump said he will meet with the n.r.a. about curbing gun sales to suspected terrorists. and democratic senator chris murphy of connecticut led a 15-hour filibuster in the senate to force votes next week on gun control legislation.

joining me now, patrick he'll frewashington, david herzenhorn. they have been covering both the shooting and the political fallout for the "new york times." patrick, i'll begin with you. every time this happens, we say once again-- it has all the earmarks each time-- it's very different for the victims each time. somebody left them in the morning and didn't come back. but is this different? will this make a difference? is there somehow, some way because it's the largest mass murder, going to be different? >> it's really complicated, charlie. i still feel like the sandy hook elementary school shootings of those 20 children, which was, you know, a very clear act of gun violence aimed at some of the most innocent americans, that you can imagine, that created such a storm of reaction, and yet you did not see change happen. you didn't see real gun

legislation move through congress. this time, you have, yes, the greatest mass shooting in american history. but let's be frank-- it's complicated by several dimensions. one, an act of terrorism. this person apparently sworn allegiance to isis, at least in the last few minute. so he was being branded as a terrorist, not as an american who was taking advantage of gun loopholes and getting guns and amassing them and killing people. and then you have the victims-- yes, everyone is talked about the victims being part of the l.g.b.t. community. but you do have some republicans who aren't even sort of willing to kind of go there in terms of talking about this as a hate crime, as sort of a protected group. i bring that up only because it feels like the reactions to what happened in orlando have been

complex, have been more complex than something like sandy hook. >> rose: david? >> i have to say i've been struck by how certain some of the officials i cover in washington have been to talk about this as strictly a terrorist incident, given that so many complex things were going on. as patrick said, this was an attack on the l.g.b.t. community. this was a troubled american who was clearly not in communication, as far as we know, directly with terrorist groups, who seemed to pledge allegiance to many different groups, some in opposition to each other. so it seems to be a very layered, complex situation, with, obviously, a deeply disturbed individual. and as patrick said, we have this intense political environment, sernl not as clear-cut a case as in sandy hook were the response was just so overwhelmingly emotional because of the school children involved. and even then the senate congress was unable to act. ve any impact on the n.r.a. in getting thoam make any changes, even if it's a connection between watch lists and gun

registration? >> this is a debate that's been going on for a while, and i frankly, don't think so. certainly, democrats are not looking to donald trump to be in any way apart from republicans or apart from the n.r.a. so the reaction of harry reid, the democratic leader, was to say, you know, go ahead. trump should spend more time with the n.r.a. he's quite content to see them in alliance. >> this is a really important moment for donald trump because republicans, as well as democrats, have been waiting for some kind of an opportunity for him to act, as we say, presidential. and a real crisis, a real crisis like what happened in orlando, is a moment when a lot of americans look at donald trump and hillary clinton, and say, okay, can i imagine what this guy would be like as president in this moment? what kind of leadership would he show? >> rose: but there is this, he had a chance to do that-- he met with him after the tragedy and didn't have that conversation. >> right it didn't happen-- >> i do think it's too late.

i think, you know, the congress is already moving. we have votes set up now for monday in washington on four different gun measures. these are two democratic proposals, two republican proposals. pport for one of thoseed its sponsored by senator correspondin of texas. democrats are adamantly against that. we expect all four of those will fail. and the leadership we're see, interestingly now, is coming from senator susan collins from maine, a moderate republican. she's work some on what maybe compromise measure. what's unclear is if in this hyperpartisan election year there's any room for negotiating there. they're trying. >> rose: president obama is facing unusual and sharp criticism of his foreign policy towards syria this week. 51 career diplomats from inside the state department have signed a classified memo calling for

increased military action in syria, something the president has long resisted if it means a significant expansion of american troops or boots on the ground. the president explained his thinking to me during an april interview at the white house. >> you know, probably the area where i've gotten the most criticism from some in foreign policy establishment here in washington is around the syria -- >> and the red line. >> situation, and there, what you have is people who i think instinctively feel that where something is going wrong, where we have a problem, the solution is for the united states to send the military in and impose order. and surely what we've learned not just from iraq but even the great challenges that we've had in places like afghanistan, where we've now been there for 13 years, devoted enormous resources, lives lost. so the notion that while we were still busy in afghanistan, still

trying to keep iraq together, that we would now then potentially involve ourselves in another military excursion in syria-- that's the kind of unwise decision making that i think leads us to make big mistakes and ultimately, also, miss out on opportunities elsewhere in the world. >> rose: let me focus on the red line discussion you made. >> sure. >> rose: many look at that and say because did you not, and you went over the opposition of some of your advisers, which is what a president is expected to do. >> right. >> rose: make the hard choices. that what we have today, in part because of that decision, we have a devastated state. we've had close to 500,000 people die. and we've had refugees of up to four million people. >> right, so -- >> and those. >> so let me respond. first of all, the state was devastated at the time we were thinkinthinking about making tht decision. >> rose: but much worse today.

>> hold on a second, charlie. at that point you already had a couple of hundred thousand dead. the state had already been shattered. and the question very narrowly, even among those who criticized me was do we take a one-off, a pinpoint strike to send a message to assad, so that he would no longer use chemical weapons because the red line i had set was that if you use chemical weapons, then we are going to make a different calculation in terms of how we view the conflict there. now, in in fact, as a consequence of the steps i took and the diplomacy that we engaged in, assad removed the vast majority of those chemical weapons from syria. there was never a claim that had i taken military action because of those chemical weapons that we would have then resolved the civil war -- >> the-- >> in syria. but i want to be clear.

i think that there are those who make the argument, charlie, that somehow we can change a civil war inside of syria. if they are being honest, what they have to argue is we would in fact deploy a large army to overthrow assad. the notion that by sending a few missile strikes into syria that we would have resolved the syrian conflict is simply not borne out by any of the subsequent facts. >> rose: for more on this we turn to the president on the council on foreign relations, and nicolas burns, a professor at the harvard kennedy school and former state department high-ranking official. >> this is a big story and it's a big deal, i think for a couple of reasons, charlie. number one, we've had this dissent channel since the vietnam war. we want to encourage our career diplomats to be creative and to speak up when they see something they disagree with. it's a very valuable channel. richard and i both worked on this over many decades. but what they're speaking about

is the enormous frustrationed in the u.s. government, and i think in many circles -- in new york, washington, other places -- over the president's policy in the middle east. i admire president obama. i think he's done a lot of good things in foreign policy. he's been entirely risk averse in the middle east. >> rose: are you arguing that while obama had-- the president has had foreign policy successes, the middle east has been a failure. >> i think his policy has failed in the middle east. and the fact that we advocated our normal diplomatic role and allowed the russians to play the lead role i think it was a big mistake. >> rose: am i wrong in believing that i heard you say before we have to be very careful about our commitments there in the middle east. we have to be very careful. and i see lot of risk in many of the things that critics of the syrian policy want us to do. >> absolutely. and i think one of the lessons is you don't want to go in there with a large military footprint, hundreds of thousands of people. you don't want to go in there to change the society. i don't think our policy should be to have people in syria

reading the federalist papers in arabic translation. that is not something the united states can or should commit itself to. but-- and as this dissent cable seems to have pointed out-- through the exwos to be a connect between what you try to do diplomatically and the situation on the ground. >> i way to do that is to have some weight on your side and to be physically present. that's one. two, we are fighting an air campaign against the islamic state in syria and iraq. the islamic state's a per nishes group. i support air campaign. we're doing nothing against another actor, the syrian government, that is at least as destructive and in places like aleppo, the major city in the country, more destructive. the idea that you're trying to arrive at a positive conclusion eventually in syria through airpower against the islamic state, but you refuse to act against an equally powerful and pernicious actor, it doesn't make a lot of sense. and that's where either this administration or the next one has to go.

>> rose: the shootin shooting in orlando has highlighted the distinctive threat poseed by lone wolf attacks and the fact that the gunman, omar mateen, was twice investigated by the f.b.i. raises new questions about the f.b.i.'s policies and resources. tim murphy is a former deputy director of the f.b.i. >> right now, they're still full steam ahead trying to figure this out, what motivated him, was there anybody else involved, who actually inspired him, and any other connection he may have. >> rose: what do we know about the frequency, the idea that you suggested that these things are happening with more frequency. we see the same patterns developing. we see the kinds of locations that are chosen-- clubs, theaters, whether it's paris or whether it's orlando, florida. >> yeah, i think, you know, what we're facing in this country, and we need to evolve quickly, and that is my concern that we're not evolving quick enough.

we're not agile enough to keep up with this threat. now, with encrypted communications. now with isil or isis, there's decentralized, there's not a command and control. un, harm those in the united states where you stand. you know, take up arms and hit soft targets. i mean, that has been the instructions over using their recruiting tools, over their messaging back and forth. so that's what we're seeing a shift on. now, there's a lot of criticism eye hear already-- about f.b.i. and this individual was under investigation. but there's a lot of reasons for that, why they investigated a certain period of time under the legal requirement thaifs. so the threat is different. we haven't evolved quickly enough to change those requirements that the f.b.i. is under when it comes to the attorney general guidelines and the domestic investigation operation guidelines. those need to be modified. and they need to be modified so they can take a longer look at some of these individuals that may be terrorists. >> rose: you know, i mean, it is the basic question of

journalism that everybody is looking here-- who, what, when, how, and when?" >> most definitelily. the f.b.i. can do three types of investigations, and it's about not violating u.s. citizens' civil liberties in this country. if they work this investigation, if they don't find this individual is an immediate threat and what they say, someone that is going to commit an act, do harm, or material support, and they don't have enough evidence in a period of time, and that period of time varies on what level of investigation it is-- it can go from 30 days to six months to a year. and if you don't find anything in that period of time, under the requirements and under the guidelines set down, the f.b.i. agents have to close the case. >> rose: eric repair is the

executive chef of a highly regarded restaurant here in new york city. he also found time to get out of the kitchen and has a new memoir out. it is called, "32 yolks, from my mother's table to working the line." and beginning in september on pbs stations, a new season of his show "avek eric." >> being at the table with your parents or with friends and having food on the table is very conducive to discussion. it brings peace, basically. and it creates relationships. >> rose: you and your mother literally communicated through food. >> yes. because she was working hard. she was challenged. she was a young mother. she was challenged with me. i was a very difficult child. and to show our emotions-- because i wouldn't let her show her emotions too much because my parents were divorced. i blamed her a little bit for not having my fawct next to me.

and for her to put the food and the love in the food and bring it to me was an act of showing love to her son. and i will understand that, even at a very young age, i will understand that she was doing that. >> rose: finally, your mother talk you to a restaurant, jacques. >> yes. >> rose: and that wa what was t. >> honduras was a small country, and jacques was the celebrated chef of the country. famous for his great food and famous for being eccentric and for his temper. and, therefore, people will go and will say, "i'm mr. so-and-so, can i have a table?" and he would say, "who sent you?" "the minister of the economy." "get out of my economy." and a friend would come and welcome them and treat them like kings. the tawbl had only 20 seats. and jacques allowed me not only to eat in his restaurant but to

observe him every afternoon after school. >> rose: as he was cook, you would come after school and watch him prepare? >> yes, i would. and we would talk about food and about-- he was previously a legionnaire. and he would explain to me -- >> being a foreign legionnaire. >> yes, the stories of being in vietnam and so on. but for me it was all about the dance in the kitchen and him cooking and the smell, and feeding me, too, because i was really-- i loved the chocolate mousse, and apple tart. >> rose: i think you suggest his mousse as somehow being analogous to proust biting into-- >> the mother land. >> rose: what did you walk away from that experience with? >> well here, showed me what a professional kitchen was. and i sort of love, in myself,

for the craftsmanship, for the artistry. i knew at a very young age, like nine, 10, 11, that i will become a chef. >> rose: the actress olivia wilde is currently starring opposite bobby carnevale in the hbo series "vinyl." she plays a former model and actress who has left the city to raise a family in suburban connecticut. why did you come back to television now that you have all these things that you can spend your time doing? >> well, because of the material and because martin sor saysy asked me to. and because bobby carnevale is such a talent. and i had been wanting to work with him on something. and so this combination of marty, of boab, of mick jagger, who is our other producer, and

terrance winter was just too good. >> rose: plus there's a lot of good stuff on television today. >> so much good stuff, and particularly for women, of course. >> rose: exactly. are you seeing more and more of that on television where you can find roles that you can inhabit that have power and complexity? >> yes, i think so. and i think it's because the audiences can immediately accept and celebrate these female roles and say they love them. and i think the studios understand right away that this is a successful bet. whereas with film evening, though there have been so many huge-grossing films starring women, there still seems to be this myth, this stigma, that women can't open films. whereas in television, it's not a question. >> rose: exactly. so you can and you will and you do. >> yes. >> rose: as you know, as we said, we hope you come home, you come back to journalism. it's never too late. >> no. >> rose: after doing all these movies and all this stuff you might come back and start

writing and start reporting. are you making documentaries, which is a start? >> that's a form of it. i think it's kind of the perfect marriage of journalism and film making and storytaling, of course, and speak truth to power. and i try to make documents that i really think people need to see. and sometimes they're quite difficult to watch. but i think that we've been quite successful with them. we had an oscar nomination this year. >> rose: you did. >> and was a film about ebola. and because i think it was a short documentary, somehow people are less terfired to watch those. >> rose: devon seems far, far away from who you are? >> yes. >> rose: and that requires a larger sense of acting because she goes to connecticut. >> yes. the decision she made-- she is an amalgamation of many real women. and she made the decision to leave when, you know, people in real life, like edie sedgwick, would have left at one point,

decided to stay, and maybe that's what ended up killing her because the environment, of course, was not very healthy. devon decide to leave for the so-called healthier life and we seaport effects of that. she's completely lost her identity as an artist. i know were i in that situation, i couldn't have left that-- that lifestyle of the city, of being a part of this cultural -- >> you could not have made the choice she made. >> no. but i had to completely understand her decision in order to play her. >> rose: and how quick does she regret it? >> i think there's a slow burn. i think there is the glory of the beginning of making a family. they have these two very young children. and i think now these kids have just become old enough to go to school and take care of themselves and so she's left with several hours in the day to wonder who she is. >> rose: here is a look at the week ahead. sunday is the final day of one of golf's biggest prizes, the

u.s. open. monday is the summer solstice, and the longest day of the year. tuesday is the 34th birthday of britain's prince william. wednesday is the day items from joan rivers' estate are auctioned for charity at christie's. thursday is the 2016 n.b.a. draft. friday is the day of the 28th annual world's ugliest dog contest is held in petaluma, california. saturday is the first day of pride weekend in san francisco. and here is what's new for your weekend: jeff goldblum, bill pulled man, and liam hemsworth star in the sci-fi thriller "independence day: resurgence." >> that is definitely bigger than the last one. >> rose: death cab for flutie,

florence and the machine, and mumford and sons headline the fire fly music festival in dover, delaware. and the red hot chili peppers have a new album out, "the getaway." that's "charlie rose: the week" for this week. on behalf of all of us here, thank you for watching. i'm charlie rose. we'll see you next time. funding for charlie rose was funding for charlie rose was provided by the following

steves: westminster abbey. this most-historic church in the english-speaking world is where kings and queens have been crowned and buried since 1066. while it was first built in the 11th century, much of what we see today is 14th century. when there's a royal wedding, the world looks on as, amid all this splendor, thousands of britain's glitterati gather under these graceful gothic arches.

the centerpiece is the tomb of edward the confessor, who founded the abbey. and surrounding edward are the tombs of 29 other kings and queens. this is the tomb of queen elizabeth i. her royal orb symbolizes she was queen of the entire globe. the abbey is filled with the remains of people who put the "great" in britain -- saints, musicians, scientists, and soldiers. for lovers of english literature, strolling through poets' corner can be a pilgrimage in itself. king henry vii's lady chapel, with its colorful windows and fanciful banners, has the festive air of a medieval pageant. the elaborate ceilings is a fine example of fan vaulting, a style that capped the gothic age. at the far end, a wall of modern stained glass marks the royal air force chapel.

it honors the fighter pilots of all nations who died defending britain in 1944. with saints in stained glass, heroes in carved stone, and the remains of england's greatest citizens under the floor stones, westminster abbey is the national church and the religious heart of england.

>> rose: welcome to the program. we begin this evening with the lead story in the "new york times" today. it is the story about 51 american diplomats who have protested the obama administration's policy in syria and urge more aggressive action. talking about this story, richard haass and nicholas burns, both formerly of the state department. >> this is a big story and it's a big deal i think for a couple of reasons, charlie. number one, we've had this dissent channel since the vietnam war. we want to encourage our career diplomats to be encouraged to speak up when they feel they need to. what they're speaking about is the enormous frustration inside the u.s. government. i think in many circles in new york, washington, other places, over the president's policy in the middle east. >> rose: and the story of