within welcome to the program, in politics we have seen a speech by hillary clinton about donald trump's economics. today a speech by donald trump about hillary clinton's economics. we are joined by dan senor, ed rollins, mark leibovich and katy tur. >> this certainly is going to be the lincoln douglas debates, more like the ali-frassier fights. we have two most unpopular candidates running for president, one called a liar, the other unfit for presidency. >> we conclude this evening with olivia wilde. she is a terrific actress who starred in vinyl which has been cancelled as of today of. she has many other vehicles which we will talk about as well as an amazing career and interesting parents from washington. >> audiences can immediately accept and celebrate these

female roles and say they love them. and i think these studios understand right away that this is a successful bet. whereas with film, even though there have been so many huge grossing films starring women, there still seems to be this myth, the stigma that women can't open films. whereas in television, it's not a question. >> rose: presidential politics and olivia wilde when we continue. >> funding for charlie rose is provided >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by the following: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose.

>> rose: we begin this evening with politics. donald trump attacked hillary clinton if a speech this morning. speaking from his trump soho hotel in new york city. he criticized her record and questioned her integrity. >> hillary clinton, and add as you know, most people know, she's a world-class liar. just look at her pathetic e-mail servant or her phoney landing. (applause) or her phoney landing in boss that where she said she was under attack and the attack turned out to be young girls handing her flowers, a total and-- look, this was-- this was one of the beau ts. a total and self-serving lie. >> rose: clinton responded to trump's attacks during her rally in raleigh, north carolina. >> now look, i know donald hates it when anyone points out how

hollow his sales pitch really is. and i guess my speech yesterday must have gotten under his skin because right away he lashed out on twitter with outlandish lies and conspiracy theories. and he did the same in his speech today. now think about it. he's going after me personally because he has no answers on the substance. >> rose: trump's campaign for the general election reportedly faces major financial issues. and earlier this week trump fired his campaign manager corey will you want do yousky-- lewandowski. joining me is dan senor, ed rollins,-- mark leibovich is the chief national correspondent for "the new york times" magazine. his cover story of the upcoming issue is titled "will trump swallow the gop hold" inside the gop crisis roiling the republican part.

katy tur is covering the trump campaign. we welcome you for the first time to this table. welcome. >> thank you. >> rose: let me start with the speech, katy, tell me about the speech today. >> the speech was supposed to be a broad side attack on hillary clinton, a full frontal assault on her character and also her record on trade, her record on the economy, her record overseas. he was trying to paint her as somebody who is going to be not only dangerous for american interests overseas but also dangerous for americans at home. and for donald trump this was a much more controlled version. it was him reading a tel prompter which we have seen a few times now. it was also the rescet as you know of this campaign after they fired the campaign manager coree lewandowski. who is in charge now. clearly that was paul manafort who is the more traditional campaign manager trying to get him to focus more on substance, on attacks that they believe will land on hillary clinton. >> rose: sounds like a mirror image of what she said about him, unfit to be president. >> absolutesly am you can almost see him take pleasure that she

doesn't have the temperment or the qualities to be president, because that's the attack leveled at him over and over again this entire cycle. they're trying to paint themselves as the chak candidate, hillary clinton is the status quo candidate, the worst of politic, the worst of washington, somebody that will only make things worse, not change anything. this is what they believe is going to be able to potentially turn over independence to their side, bernie sanders supporters, you heard him make an appeal to bernie sanders supporters. and also what they believe as soft democrats who may not like hillary clinton. >> rose: it is still up in the air with sanders supporters will go. >> 17% in the latest bloomberg say they could be going to trump, they say only half will stay with hillary clinton but then again bernie sanders has not yet handed over the race and we have to see how those numbers change when that happened. >> rose: ed in 1994 you ran a national campaign. have you ever seen anything like this. >> i wasn't around for the teddy

roosevelt rematch in 1912. it may have been that close. this certainly is going to be the lincoln-douglas debates. it will be more like the ali frassier fights by the time we are finished with. this the two most unpopular candidates to run for president in modern times. one calling the other a liar the other unfit for presidency. as far as she could to a certain extent it is the right theme for him. and obviously for her it is the right thing for her. >> does this simply come down to who can make it a referendum on the other. >> i think it is. i think the critical thing he has to worry about, and i'm sure we will get into this, does he have the resources for the next three or four weeks which is very critical. they will try and define him with 20, po million in negative advertising before we get to the convention. do what we did to john kerry with bush and do what they did last time to romney. >> rose: in both cases they did it before the convention.

>> it's a very important time. >> this is a key period. 2012, the obama campaign and the affiliated superpacs had a very to us canned campaign to complete plee undermine and drive romney's negative numbers up before the convention. the same thing is happening now, except romney had expo nengly more money than trump does now. so at least romney could be on the air and try to fight and it still didn't work. trump has something romney dispt. he has negative ratings in the range of 07%, about 70% of voters are already rejecting him before the clinton campaign and affiliated pacs start spending tens of millions of dollars which they will do in the next few weeks. i think he has no financial resources, he's got no organization. he doesn't clearly have the performance down, meaning every other-- every third or fourth day in his day to day performance he says something that sets the campaign back. it is hard for me-- if we were if january or february, it would be one thing. we are almost in july. the idea in the next few months

he can pull this together, i'm highly sceptical. >> i thought stylisticically the speech he gave today was interesting, sort of a hybrid of like the big sort of hall rally but also a more quawsi-disciplined version. and it seemed a little clungy it was like it was improvisational in one second and the rest he was reading all of a sudden. he was a little is he dated. >> he's learning to use a tel prompter. >> and i don't think he likes it, he doesn't seem very comfortable with it. >> it was a speech that didn't seem to know what it wanted to be. i think some of the central points and central themes about change versus more of the same swi obviously not an unfamiliar tell plate to these things. >> rose: a winning tell plate. >> it's a winning tell plate. i'm not playing the game that hillary is playing. i'm-- yes, i'm getting criticized for not fundraising. but i don't have to do this. you know, he does have to do this. as far as the message goes he probably could turn that around smartly. >> rose: does he really believe he doesn't have to do that. >> he furmtly does not believe in politics as usual. he doesn't believe in the

campaigning as usual. he has laid this out. the campaign has laid out in his book the art of the deal. if you go back t is a tell plate for what he has been doing the entire time. he doesn't believe in a communications team which is why we have not seen it-- up. he doesn't believe he has to ask people for mown. he chafes at it. according to multiple sources he has had to be told by the party, by reince priebus that he has to ruly ask for hundred when he goes to these fundraisers. >> rose: if he starts raising money by asking money does he fall into the trap of all the things he accused the democrats and other politicians of doing. >> potentially. >> rose: kelling their own self to get somebody's money. >> part of the reason he has been so popular and successful is he is not beholden to special interests. it's what we hear over and over again on the campaign. we like him because he's an outsider and he's not going to go in there and just listen the lobbyists or listen his own interests or et cetera. he is somebody that will come in and change things because he doesn't need anybody else. he's a billionaire is what they say over an over again. >> rose: and every billionaire we know who has had anything to

do with politics says he doesn't have nearly enough money to do this. >> the truth of the matter is money people, the ordinary person, give 2700, to a election campaign in the primary and general, that is 5400. if you want more money than that which he desperately needs, your campaign was raising a million dollars a day at this point last time. he has a million 7. he needs in the incomes month to 25 million to staff up, to basically get his campaign so he can be on the defensive or offensive whichever the case may be, to run a convention. to run a convention is an expensive operation. the 70 people he has on the staff now, is what you would have for a convention operation. if he doesn't get those resources, the only way to get it now is write a check. >> rose: he has to believe it's necessary to have any passion to get it. >> he has never been through a campaign. is he not like the other can the das. he has never been elected to anything and has a disdain for it. >> i would add the donors i speak to, even the ones that signed up to support him, they follow two things. one,ed polls. so now there is a double digit low double digit gap between him and hillary clinton, that spooks

them out. because it is hard to twist arms for money when the people on the other end don't think your candidate will win. and two they have to see other money coming in. most of these donors are business people. they don't want to be the last round of capital into like a failing venture. so they watch the thing collapsing. they see no one else giving money. they see the 1.34 million headline, why do i want to chase, have my money be like the dumb money going in at the 119 hour. so the donors aren't motivated. if he is not motivated to get after the donors and the poll numbers are bad, he will not have the resources unless he writes his own check. >> especially when he has been running around the country for however many months saying i'm self-funding and i'm worth 10 billion. the logical response is write a check, that would end this discussion and every discussion. >> and he still only loaned his campaign the money, he hasn't actually given the money. >> which goes to the question is how badly does he want to win or does he have the money. >> i think he wants to win. again i go back to the fact, he is a guy that has done the same thing his entire life, he has

had political ambitions longer than most people ever dreamed he had themment but he has never been in the game. he has never been a donor so the donors don't want to give. even in new york city, amazing to me, here is he the frontrunner, the nominee, serious candidate, and he's not well-known in this town itself. >> it's amazing to me. you and i know the establishment in this community. and they don't really know him. >> they don't know him. >> rose: they come and ask you questions about him. >> right. >> rose: and they're surprised he is where he is. >> right. >> ss katy saidz before, that he is running this very unconventional campaign and he thinks it works for him. and did did work for him in the primary. it worked for him in the primary but keep in mind, everyone he was running against ran unconventional campaigns too. normally in a multicandidate primary there is someone who is ahead of everyone else, everyone just starts attacking that person. in this primary, no one wanted to spend money attacking the frontrunner so they all just, jeb bush and all the others started spending superpac money, campaign money attacking each other. so he thinks that worked just fine. i will replicate it.

hillary clinton is not going to withhold her resources. they are going to go after him double barreled with a massive amount of money. >> rose: they are really going for the kill right now to do what was done to mitt romney and do what was done to. >> absolutely. that is fair to say. i think they're trying to take advantage of this period where donald trump has been stumbling over and over again with the various controversies, the judge curiel, accusing the president of having sympathies to terrorists. they are trying to take this moment an run with it the way they did, the way president obama did during the run-up with mitt romney. it could certainly be successful. we've seen this in the past that people's minds are solidified in the summer and then it is a slow burn to convince them through november. the trump campaign knows this. the staffers behind the scenes know this. there is a problem relaying that message to donald trump himself. the family knows this. they have been trying to tell him this over and over again. part of the reason it took so long to get coree lewandowski out who is i am told part of the problem, literally stopping

donald trump from taking advice and allowing him to be himself, let trump by trump be trump. he was winning during the primaries. an he needs off these large rallies that he has. so when he goes and sees five, ten, 12,000 people show up, he assumes that he is doing well. the recent drop in polls was a real wake-up call for him that things did need to change. is he going to be able to clang? that is the million dollar question. so far we have seen from his past actions, it hasn't worked. >> however you can look at the firing of lewandowski and say therefore he had begun to change? i mean this was the guy that helped him get to where he was. he was willing to kick him off. does that say he finally realizes. >> i think it says yes, he is starting to realizement i wouldn't go so far as to say that everything is going to be hunky-dory now. it is not going to be a traditional candidate. >> i'm outside the campaign but i think it is the influence of the family. >> rose: he sat with nora o'donnell yesterday, no, it

wasn't them, they were not involved. >> i don't care what he told. the enof the day, i do thinklls there is one thing we can never underestimate. this say very unique year. he's a very powerful communicator. there is a certain segment of the electorate that definitely wants change. she is 30 years of experience that is not a good thing to have in this environment. so my sense even though they may try and take him out early, he may survive and will definitely survive if he will write a check for $25 million. >> rose: does he have a winning path to victory? >> if he wins everything that you guys won last time and takes florida, ohio, which he is-- he is tied. >> rose: down in floor darks tied in ohio. >> in pennsylvania he has 276 electoral votes. those aren't easy. floor will-- florida will be very hard, ohio is always hard. and pennsylvania he hasn't won since 1964. >> it is hard but there say formt la. i did think she was a great candidate eight years years agoic don't think she is a great candidate todayness. >> rose: has she gotten better.

>> my sense is they have an extraordinary team. what we used to do as a party after a primary, we took the best team we had all across-the-board and put them together. this is not-- democrats have done that you have the best of the obama, best of the clinton people, they're not fighting each other any more. and they have a very strong team and are ready to go and know how to run a modern day campaign. >> i can think of romney states that hillary clinton can win. pick off states the republicans won in 20126789 i can't think of a single obama state that donald trump could win. >> unless you go to the ohio, pennsylvania. >> i think it's fantasy. on the flip side, even if he does compete in one or two of those places, there are states like arizona where 30% of the general electorate are latino. if mitt romney got 20% nationally. what do you think donald trump will get, 15%, 10%. suddenly you take states that romney won off the map. it's a net negative it is true he could pick-- politics is about net additions, not about addition and much more subtraction traction.

i think he could lose more republican states than pick up. >> it's possible. but it's also possible, and again, no disrespect to you. have i been around this business for 50 years. >> beyond, teddy roosevelt. >> beyond that. >> rose: hell of a campaign. >> and i have seen changes. the reagan campaign in 1908 was right in this position, in public finance. we were out of money. we were stunling. we had to change the top management totally. we got back in the game and we won-- . >> rose: new hampshire in the primary with john seers or some other time. >> we had trouble all the way through. once we got to the convention, we didn't win until the losing-- closing weeks of the campaign. you had this group of voters who stood up and crashed on and won a landslide. and we had john landerson who was a liberal. it can happen. he is the change agent. she can't be the change agent. >> rose: here is what i am trying to understand. he is a change agent even if in fact his story, his narrative is wrong. >> i mean hillary clinton will have to make the case or is going to make the case that america is not in the terrible

shape my opponent keeps saying it is over, and over which is a precarious thing to be doing. she does have to do it like the obama story will be an important story to tell. the president himself will be t yeah, i mean, there is a lot of fear that you can sort of engender into the electorate over what a donald trump change could look like. i think they will do that. >> what he has done so far is he has inoculated himself from the criticism in the press by going out and panning the press on a day to day basis calling them scum, calling them dishonest, calling them liars. and that is effective to a certain portion of this electorate on both sides. both sides don't have a strong trust in the media right now. so when they come out and fact-check something or say here is the actual record, there is not a lot of reason to believe that that is the whole story. >> rose: go ahead. >> he does that to the press. but he does that to everybody who challenges him. so he does that to the judge in this case. he does-- i mean-- . >> rose: the fellow republican. >> he does that to everyone. so whenever we hear he's going to reign it in, a couple of weeks ago after the judge thing

got very hot, and everyone told him to reign it in, he gave a speech, similar, is he dated, tel prompter, everyone said this is the new trump. and then within days he was on this rant after the orlando attacks saying a lot of things that were really reprehensible. and so he got back in it today everybody says new speech, new day, going to be a new campaign. we'll say. every time we get the quote unquote resets, reboots, about 72 hours later his performance is what undermines him. >> rose: are there stories within the campaign that he is saying to people look, it's going to be different. it's not only going to be different in terms of what i say, the wall is not going to be what i am saying the wall is. so many things that i am using look, are up for negotiation. it's not written in stone. i'm a negotiator. >> there is no word from anybody in the campaign that he is going around and telling people that. but i can tell you from talking to campaign aides and from talking to people who are extraordinarily close to him, that they believe that this is the stuff that is not necessarily going to be central to his presidency.

and i health to bring this up again, but the art of the deal trk is the art of the deal, you start an extreme position and negotiate towards the middle. he has denied that publicly but that certainly is his reputation. >> rose: so that is his mindset am we start with extreme positions and negotiate during this general election, as i explain myself, i will become more moderate. >> i think that is fair to saivment you about i done think he has explicitly told anybody that. >> you have to be careful when you start switching around like that. there say base out there that believes he's going to build a wall and they like that. the base out there that believes you and i may disagree, we're going to keep muslims out of the country. the moment you start moving off some of those motions there is an issue. >> rose: he seems to worry about that. he is always worried about losing his base. my question about all of this, is what slt impact of all of this beyond his base. kus does anybody believe his base can provide a majority in this general election? >> no, absolutely not, neither side has a base that can provide a majority. >> rose: so they have to get independence. >> independence of the plur allity of voters, whoever wins the independence basically wins

the presidency. when you look at the plur allity of voters who are independent, there say pattern nine out of ten times they vote one way or the other. 10% that basically swing back and forth. i luke him, i don't like hum. i like her, i don't like her in this case everybody doesn't like either one of them so it will be an interesting app analysis. >> st remarkable, we see this on the campaign trail s that when you talk to the more extreme base of supporters who really like the idea of a wall or a muslim ban, and you ask them, do you believe he's going to enact this, some of them do say i don't think he'll necessarily be able to do it. but i hope that he will. and i'm not going to hold him accountable for it. then others say i don't believe anything he's saying but i'm supporting him because i like him. and he's able to live in both of those worlds in a way that no other candidate has been able to do. >> rose: so this is a very different election. is a transform tiff election so that the political candidates of the future will have to be different. >> well, i always said when a young person came to me and said i want to be president, i said go run for governor, create a record, whatever. now i say marry a kardashian,

get a talk show, do whatever, go win survivor. i mean i think that part of it has changed. i can never recommend to a candidate again basically you have to do all the traditional things have i done over my 50 years. but i think to a certain extent we will go back-- if he wins he's president. if he loses i think the party goes to where it was before. >> you have been with the party. >> i do think it is a transform tiff election if he wins. i think we will see a generation of very pale and offensive and horrible imitators of donald trump that will not be able to be as trump-like as trump has been am but i do think that clearly i think his success at this point has been a victory for a kind of authenticity which you sort of look at the fact checking, it's not truthful. >> rose: so here we have during this entire 22 minute conversation, essential talked about donald trump. is that what this campaign is going to be about? essentially talking about donald trump? >> it has been so far. >> i know. >> i think hillary will be a big factor. i really think he will try an make, as did he today, try and

make her a factor. wrap her around obama as much as he can and try and make that the issue. that obviously maybe-- i think the speech today is a road map that he has, limited though it may be, to being victory. >> rose: because it has what element. >> because the elements are about fighting terrorism, about leadership, about getting the economy moving again. you have to convince people is he the economist, he is the guy that can do that he's got the experience there. that is what the country says they want. they want jobs. they want basically someone to fight terrorism. she has a hard time getting to that legitimacy because she's been around so long. >> past presidential debates-- . >> rose: the record of secretary of state so bad? that was the obama record, she didn't have such a bad reputation as a united states senator. republicans said that she was very. >> wait, wait until you are done with this campaign. you know, it's just-- whatever money trump and his people have are going to be spent taking those issues today. >> rose: i thought i could marry a kardashian and go to north carolina and become governor. >> you could have married anybody. could you have been governor a

long time ago. so in past presidential debates you have had a television audience of 60, 70 million people. this year, a hundred million, it is going to be, people will be watching this-- by multiples of kardashian. people will be watching from all over the world. all over the world. this will be-- and it's not because of hillary clinton. >> people will be watching all over the world because of donald trump. >> that is what people talk about. even when they don't realize, you hear them talking about it at dinners and cafes in france and london and portugal. >> rose: and beijing, i was in beijing, that saul they wanted to talk about, donald trump. >> it's like the nfl. a lot of people tune in to watch the super bowl because of the violence. it's not-- i don't think the audience here for these debates will be the high-minded people who are very curious about the policies. >> rose: therefore my question, is it really the great x factor here how well donald trump or how well hillary clinton does in the debate sphs because ronald reagan with jimmy

carter changed the impression of him. >> of him, right, of him. >> rose: he was dr. strangelove going in, he was. >> the it doesn't have to be three debates them can blow the commission aside. as the two candidates they can say thank you very much. i will debate him one time. >> do you think that would be-- do you think the clinton campaign would want more debates, less debates. >> i think there is a chance he won't debate all together. i have heard that from people on the campaign that he might not do it. >> rose: why. >> this is the prelewandowski era, so i mean-- . >> rose: tell us about lewandowski. the family waded in and that was the straw that broke the camel's back. >> they have been frustrated with him for months. they hadn't liked his manner of management. people in the campaign who since had no more role in the campaign after they left states had told me and other nbc reporters about how he would get on conference calls and berate them with

expletives. he was a very hands-on and very aggressive type of manager. the family didn't like that. they also didn't like that he wasn't able to spin messaging with reporters. he had an antagonistic relationship with the press. so they had been trying to convince their father for months. i'm told that ivanka was extraordinarily frustrated with lewandowski to the point she was not really interacting with him much. he was trying to take her on, the party on it all came to a head this week when his poll numbers started to dip. and that is what donald trump pay as tension to. >> rose: there was one report that she said it is either him or me. >> there is one report that said that. i'm also toll that the michelle fields incident was a devastating incident for many people in the family saying that why are we having somebody on board our campaign who is this much of a liability. >> it is amazing he lasted as long as did he. >> i think we tend to overanalyze, you know, politics, personnel changes and the reality is trump is a 70% unfavourable number not because of coree lewandowski, because of

donald trump. he operates at one speed, at one style. he's done it at every stage whether it was the art of the deal, or real estate, whether in reality tv. >> rose: and at 07 he is not going to change. >> that is exactly how he operated for the numerous decades. >> why lewandowski lasted is because he allowed him to do it without saying no. >> donald tramp managed his own campaign. he limited the recourses-- resources where i give corey credit is he got him through this process under the best of circumstances and he had probably less experience of anyone that managed a national campaign. >> rose: did he get him through because he encouraged him to be trump, let trump be trump. >> i wasn't there, i can't tell you. but i can tell you holding a campaign together when you only have 70 people and winning as many states as they did with a candidate like that, it is a very tough task. >> more about the republican party, where are they in terms of helping him and what is restraining them and what in fact is encouraging them. >> well, what sen couraging him is he is the only choice at this

point. is he going to be the nominee. you hear increased discussion about something that could happen at the convention. the fact is there is not a candidate. if you don't have a candidate you can't really fight against anyone. >> rose: destroy the party. >> that is not going to happen. >> i'm not sure it's not going to happen. >> rose: because? >> because look, full disclosure, have i been involved with several efforts to try and recruit a republican independent to run which none of those-- . >> rose: if you had been able to, doesn't that suggest something. >> it suggests that i don't vay very good track record because there is something going on right now among the delegates that i and no one i know has been involved with. and i actually am struck that it's real am i don't know if it will be successful. the odds are low. >> hundreds of delegate-- delegates. hundreds of delegates are in communication with none another about trying to figure out how to unbound their votes for him on the first ballot to prevent from getting the nomination to create a pathway for another republican to take him on on the floor. i don't know if this is going to

happen. i'm simply saying it is extraordinary that this say real grass-roots bottom up, not top down effort, it's not being orchestrated by mitch mcconel and paul ryan, it's real. >> what they are trying to do is use what they are calling a conscience clause in the rules. when paul ryan was on "meet the press" on the weekend, he talks about he want everyone to vote their conscience. that was a very keyword. it was almost an underground signal to these delegates that they might have-- they might have a stance, a leg to stand on. but it is very low likelihood that they will be able to get enough delegates to do that also there are conflicting rules in the-- on the books that say that you can't necessarily do that. >> the rules are biz an teen and have never been tested like this. one could arc that there are legal routes which is one option being considered to challenge the rules. look, again, i don't know if it will happen. the mere fact that we are talking about this three weeks out. i know the trump campaign i have heard from others, the one thing they are worried about is a real

messy delegate revolt. >> as well as their story. it starts in the rules committee which you have obviously two people that are were key in your campaign last time as chairman and vice chairman. they have to have a majority there, a majority on the floor. even to have that kind of a vote will create chaos. >> those people are anti-trump people which is interesting. >> yes. >> rose: let me talk about demographics. with respect to latinos, women, young. >> donald trump campaign says they will be able to win them over. i mean that's their strategy at this point. >> rose: they say a lot of things. how do they shall. >> how do they plan on doing that? i don't know. >> they love him. trust them. >> i have asked multiple times, how do you plan on doing this? what is the strategy behind behind the scenes. i have never gotten a concrete answer other than we don't necessarily need to bridge the female gap. we just need to drive hillary clinton's unfavourables up. >> rose: anything that reporters, anything reporters could have done in this campaign season through the primaries now

where we are, that would have forced him to be more-- he has spoken to the press a lot more than she has. but to his credit, but to have been and delivered much more of what his plans were, his intent and all of that, other than simply saying they love me, i'm the greatest negotiator have i ever seen. >> i think the press gets a bad rap. >> rose: that is why why i am asking. >> being every day at these press conferences that he was holding more often and frequently early in the campaign there were policy questions, every other question, he just didn't answer them. >> rose: he doesn't answer them. so i'm saying-- anything the press could have done, and anybody drns. >> if we decided to ask one yes and stay on that one question until he answered it. >> i think the most effective media treatment of him has been in interviews when you have say jake tapper with the judge curiel thing. he just sort of played, or the david duke thing. stay on one question, played dumb. explain that to me. and then he kind of-- and that

is i think, that i mean look, there is a whole-- to interviewing, no one does it better than charlie. but i think that that is, those are very effective moments for the media. >> katy, i agree. you all were asking tough questions but those interviews, unfortunately, were not the things that, the content being broadcast nufer. what was being broadcast most of the time was him doing like standup night. him at a rally live, like open mic night for 30 minutes or an hour. no questions from reporters, no questions from the audience. and him just getting an hour of free media every night in prime time. they're not broadcasting katy and others, the tough questions. >> but, and that helped him then. but i think if you look at it now, i think if he is trying to drive a message today and people are still talking about him challenging hillary clinton's religious faith yesterday. as they were, it was a topic that kept coming up. >> he kept answering that by saying i didn't really chal ingvar her faith. i said i didn't know. >> clationic trump. >> he said people are talking about it, people are saying, i'm

hearing. >> don't underestimate the skill of this man. that's what i am-- i didn't started as a trump supporter. >> rose: as an entertainer. >> as a communicator. obviously the whole reality television and what have you today is a different entertainment than what you and i grew up with. but don't think he doesn't communicate with people out there. >> he knows how to read a room like nobody else. is he a camille on. he goings-- becomes the main person in that room and knows how to message him. >> he lives off that. he won't go anywhere in he can't have a big audience. >> rose: thank you, dan, ed, katy, great to you have, thank you, mark, good article. we'll be right back. stay with us. olivia wilde is here. she has starred in such hit films as cowboys & aliens, rush and her. she currently stars opposite bobby canaval in the hbo drama "vinyl." she plays defon, a former model and actress who settled down to raise a family in suburban

connecticut. "the washington post" calls her performance fabulous and calculatingly cool. so here's a look at the series. >> it's okay. i know. our life isn't enough for you. >> no. >> no, it's not, love, you need this. >> no. >> yeah, here you go. take that. >> no, no. >> our life isn't enough for you, this is what you need. >> no, no. >> come here, come on, take it. >> no. >> have some. come on. here you go. >> hmmmm?

>> rose: season one of vinyl is available on blu-ray and dvd. i'm so pleased to have olivia wilde at this table for the first time. welcome. >> thank you so much for having me. >> rose: i was thinking for a moment, this is the best example of enabling as i have ever seen. it doesn't end up that which. >> no, it doesn't. she switches it up on him. she's quite good like that. >> rose: so why did you come back to television? now that you have all these things that you can spend your time doing? >> well, because of the material and because martin scorsese asked me to. and because bobby canaval is such a talent. hi been wanting to work with him

on something. so this combination of marty, of bobby, of mick jagger who was our other producer and terence winter was just too good not to-- . >> rose: a lot of good stuff on television today. >> so much good stuff, particularly for women, of course. >> rose: exactly. i mean are you say seeing more and more of that on television where you can find roles that really you can inhabit that have power and complexity. >> yeah. >> i think so. and i think it's because the audiences-- audiences can immediately accept and celebrate these female roles and say they love them. and i think these studios understand right away that this is a successful bet. whereas with film, even though there have been so many huge grossing films starring women there still seems to be this myth, this stigma that women can't open films. whereas in television, it's not a question. >> rose: exactly. so you can and you will and you do. >> yeah. >> rose: as you know, as i said to you, we hope you come home. you will come back to journalism where you belong in the beginning. you said it's never too late.

>> never too late, no. >> rose: so after doing all these movies and all this stuff, you might come back and start writing and start reporting. and start. >> you are making documentaries which is a start. >> that is a form of it. i think it is the perfect marriage of journalism and film making. and story telling, of course. and speaking truth to power. and i try to help make documentaries that i really think people need to see. and sometimes they are quite difficult to watch. but i think that we've been quite successful with them. we had an oscar nomination this year. and you know, that was a film about ebola. and yet becausei think it was a short documentary, show people are lesterified to watch those. >> rose: and because how deep is your involvement in those. >> pretty deep. i try to support the filmmakers, facilitate their vision. have i worked with the same directors a few times now, and two films in haiti, one in new york and one in liberia. but i try to give guidance without being, you know, too oppressive. >> rose: so how did acting

happen. >> acting happened without-- gosh, i can't remember the decision. because it was just always what i wanted. >> rose: there was never a decision, just simply you what wanted. >> it was what i wanted. i think it was probably because i was a pretty dramatic, precocious child. >> rose: really? >> i have a memory-- . >> rose: probably from your parents, that's so hard to imagine. dramatic, precocious. >> i remember someone saying we have an actress on our hands and i said oh, that sounds good, let's do that. >> rose: is there a role model because. >> many. >> rose: go ahead, who. >> well, from guilda radner to katherine helpburn and i really was supported by my parents to explore this passion. and they wanted me to get an education but they were really very supportive. they never treated it like a pipe dream. >> rose: or wasting your time. >> no and considering what they do, that they spent their life, their lives as journalists, that they have really made a difference in the world, they never minimized the impact of an

actor's career. and i think that's because they appreciated the art form. my mother actually studied acting and yale and she probably could have done that and been brilliant at it. so maybe a bit of that went into her support. >> rose: it must have been great growing up in washington. there you were, chris hitchins is your babysitter. >> all the-- . >> rose: from the dinner parties and you can snoop around and see who he is talking to whom and which secrets. >> it was really inspiring. i used to crawl under the dining room table and sit there, and can i still see everyone's shoes. and all their kind of mismatched socks, you know. can i see it, and i can hear the mur mur. >> rose: an imagine which shoes belonged to which face. >> exactly that is richard holbrook, can i tell. but i definitely think that growing newspaper that environment encouraged me to remain curious and to feel a certain responsibility to the world to ask questions, to be an active citizen. and to stick to my passion. because all these people were extraordinary people. and for all different reasons.

but i think it encouraged me to be bold. >> rose: how did vinyl happened. >> vinyl happened because i got a call when i was about six months pregnant, that scorsese was making this show that i had heard muttering of. they were trying to get it made for awhile as a film. then a show. it was finally happening. and he was offering me the part of defon and i did want to do. i said when is the start date. and they said my actual due dated for the baby. >> rose: do you think they knew. >> i said have i one slight conflict. but i will take it. because i knew it was going to be special. and i knew that i would then collaborate with marty, with terry winter, with bobby to make the character slightly more nuanced and slightly more powerful. that scene we just saw is an example of it. because originally that was written to have my character walk in the room, see that bobby's character was drunk, and being destructive, and say i can't. and walk out. and it just didn't-- . >> rose: it was too easy. >> it felt too easy.

i said i know there is something more there. marty said just try something. and so we improvised that. and i said i want to do something a bit bold, i think it might mess up bobby's wardrobe but-- can i go for it and they said go for it and after i did that. >> rose: he did not know it was coming. >> he did not know. and after i did it, there was this interminable silence. i thought i'm fired it is easy to replace me t is just the pilot. 15 seconds went by and marty came and said now she's somebody. she became someone in that moment. and then the writers subsequently when they were writing the series said they would refer back to that moment whenever they couldn't figure her out, they would say this is a woman who spits in her husband's face. there is a kind of fierce nature to her. >> rose: do you have time to sort of peel off from this and make films at the same time? >> yes. and have i been able to direct things. i directed a reading in new york recently. i directed two music videos.

i have been producing films. >> rose: i love this. >> the great thing about this show is it is a limited series. we did ten episodes in the season and it was just enough to feel that we completed the arc. but not to make it so exhausting that you have done 22 episodes of something. which i have done before on house. and by the end, you know, poor hugh laurie was a puddle. >> rose: do you have any sense of limits? none? >> no. and i think one thing-- . >> rose: i mean by that, the number of things you do at the same time, not it terms of gender limits, clearly not. but just some sense of there is nothing that i can't do if i can show find the time. >> yeah. >> rose: and find the coordinates for it within my busy life. >> yeah, i don't have a sefns limits. and one thing i'm very grateful for within this industry which gets a lot of flak s that you are able to move around in different roles. you are able to be an actor, director, writer, producer. it's actually encouraged if you

have the energy for it and the will to do it. >> rose: at the end of that, what you become is you become a filmmaker. >> exactly. >> rose: the ultimate accolade, she is a filmmaker. >> i think more and more actors are producing their own films. and i think it makes them better actors because then they understand the process. >> rose: exactly. and they are deeply involved in the material. >> yeah. >> rose: and they don't expect quite as many perks. in fact they are pretty conservative about perks. >> rose: exactly. >> did you have projects like that, you are looking to film? >> yes, absolutely. there are a few that i feel very passionate about that i am just trying to find the right place for. because if i have learned one thing, it's that the beginning stage of finding the right finance year for a film could really affect its life throughout distribution. so now i've learned to be very careful at the beginning stage of development. >> rose: and selective. >> and selective. because you want to find the right partner who will understand the point of making this material. >> rose: what is the hardest thing for you to adjust to and

learn? >>. >> well, gosh, i mean-- . >> rose: it doesn't seem complex to you, does it? >> it doesn't seem complex to me. i mean i guess the hardest thing is just physically juggling it. but then that just seems like a problem that is sur mountable. >> everything it's called scheduling. >> now it is mother hood and work which is something that so many people and fathers do, of course, deal with it. but that-- . >> rose: we hope more and more. >> w hope more and more. but we-- but we do find a way. you end up feeling you failed at both things. but that's my biggest challenge in life is how to be the best mother i can be and the best partner i can be and the best producer, actor, writer, director. >> rose: defon seems far, far away from you and who you are. >> yes. >> rose: so in fact that requires an even larger sense of acting because she goes to con con. >> yeah, the decision she made, she wasn't in the factory, news of andy warhol, an amalgamation

of many women. and she made the decision to leave when people in real life could have left at one point, decided to stay and maybe that's what ended up killing her, because the environment was not very healthy. defon decided to leave for the so called healthier life and we see the effects of that. she has completely lost her identify as an artist. i know where i am in that situation, i couldn't have left that lifestyle of the city, of being a part of cultural revolution. >> rose: could you not have made the choice she made. >> no, but i had to completely understand her decision in order to play her. >> rose: how quick does she regret it? >> i think it is a slow burn. i think there is the glory of the beginning of making a family. they have these two very young dhirn. and-- children. and i think now the kids have just become old enough to go to school and take care of themselves so she is left with several hours in the day to wonder who she is. >> rose: this say clip of where she is retreating from family life, here st.

>> you have fallen out of love-- . >> day after day in that house, i hear this creeking back and forth. it's the sound of me, hanging myself from the rafters. >> i don't want you going back there. i mean it. go to the-- inn keeper, convince him you are an artist. will give you a place. >> i'm not an artist. >> here we go again. >> rose: so at this time what is the status of the marriage? >> it is falling part. >> rose: right. >> he's completely fallen off the wagon. they made the decision to be sober together because of a very traumatizing thing that happened to them. they were in a car accident. she was pregnant at the time.

she lost that baby, as well as a friend of theirs that was in the car. after that event, they became sober. and that lasted for a few years. and now he's completely fallen off the wagon. she sorlt of has too. she remains a biltmore in control. but she doesn't believe that she is kanl of leaving the marriage. and this is obviously the experience sov many women. particularly in the early '70s. and. >> rose: and it's because they are loyal to the idea of marriage, a committed to children or none of the above. >> i think it's mostly guilts. i think it's mostly the guilt of the children and how could i leave them or how could i bring them into this-- this world. >> rose: it is my responsibility for the fact that it is not working. >> exactly. and the desire to make it work on their behalf even though you are so miserable. what she is dealing with is two completely opposite worlds from gren itch, connecticut, to the chelsea hotel. and children were raised in the

chelsea hotel. >> rose: sure. >> but it's debatable how healthy that environment was for them. i think it sounds kind of great. but then again i wasn't there. >> living in a hot sell a good idea. but these are also anti-hero men. >> oh yes, yes, and in a very intense way. i think that was a very brave choice on behalf of terence winter to write bobby's character as an incredibly unlikeable character at times. that was necessary to show why his world collapsed around him. and why his life left him. but he's a brutal monster at times. >> rose: what is the role of mick and marty. >> they are both producers. >> rose: i know that, but how. >> in terms of how hands on producers. >> very hands on. i didn't exept to see mick jagger on set as much as i did and it was always quite jagger. because i couldn't really get over it. it was very-- trying to play it really cool but never really succeeding. >> rose: i assume mick jagger had been a dinner guest at your house in washington.

>> you know, he had when i was very young. but i didn't dare remind him of that because i felt embarrassed. >> rose: because it was 30 years ago. >> yeah, and it aged both of us, you know. but i did-- i did appreciate how ak sebles he was. because of course is he quite an authority on this time period. ang same goes for marty. he leved it, i mean he lived it, died and lived again. and marty could tell these incredibly detailed anecdotes. i feel like i can't remember something that happened five years ago. my memory is swiss cheese, marty scorsese can remember ten years old on mot street. >> rose: i know he can. people like that. >> it's really extraordinary. >> rose: and they start remembering not only just i did this, but this is the richness of the detail of what i did. >> exactly. exactly. and i really leaned on marty in the beginning to build defon and to make sure that we had really come up with a dense back story to mine and to continue mining. and he was committed to it. and this' pretty rare.

>> rose: did divorce in your own life change your sense of self-and. >> absolutely. it changed my sense of how you learn to understand who you are and how important it is to be really in touch with that. and how no major life decision should be made without really understanding who you are. but then again it taught me that regret is a completely useless emotion. and that it's a waste of time. >> rose: like guilt. >> like guilt, exactly. but no, it has lead me to a place of greater empathy and hummity-- hum il i had. >> rose: as i often say to people all the time with whatever wisdom i learned t is this notion of first understand yourself and then understand something larger than yourself. >> yes. >> and then you can go off to the races. >> and the same reason i think becoming a parent makes you better. >> which is exactly the kind of thing when you think of someone beyond yourself, all of a sudden it is not about me, it's about

him. >> completely. and having another one now, it's like wow l that increase that feeling t is such an intense feeling. i think as an artist it is so valuable. i encourage people who have just had inchildren to create something, work very quickly even though are you encouraged to take it easy, don't do anything for a couple of months. but i felt this incredible rush of inspiration, so i told people paint, write, do something because there is something else flowing through you. >> rose: find a purpose. >> yes. >> rose: one thing that i do-- speaking of somebody that your patients have written a lot about, george bush. the idea that he left the white house and has made a serious commitment to painting is a very interesting. >> in the bathtub, so luxurious. >> rose: that is a role model example. that san idea of what people ought to be able to doment find something after you left whatever it was you were doing that you can think about. and so therefore are you not living in the past for better or worse. >> exactly. i think it's what he was always wanting to do the whole time. >> rose: he wanted to be a

painter. he didn't want to be seeting, he wanted to be picasso. >> exactly. i this i so. >> rose: you have tested this theory? >> i haven't. i just like to keep it a romantic fantasy. >> rose: pi case-- picasso. do you want to paint? >> oh gosh, no, my sister say brilliant patienter. >> rose: so one goods painter in the house is enough. >> there is no room for two. >> rose: and she doesn't want to act. >> she's a great actress. but she dnt want to do it professionally, thank god. base-- there is something so inspiring about my sis per because she say painter, she is also a criminal justice lawyer. and she's very committed to changing. >> rose: she's a great actress in terms of talent. >> yes. >> rose: a great painter. >> yes. >> rose: and a great criminal justice lawyer. is there sibling rivalry here at all? >> no. there is not. we have five year as part which i think sort of helps that. but-- . >> rose: that's not long. >> we are so different and yet

we share something that must have been given to us by our parents which is a commitment to something. to something greater than ourselves. and we really fire each other up about things. she will tell me about things she is working on in terms of overhauling mass incarceration and i will get so fired up and realize that what she accomplishes in a single day is so much greater than what i could do in years. envelopes i request really focus my creative efforts on worthwhile projects. >> rose: any other siblings. >> a little brother, charlie. >> rose: oh, that's right yvment did they name him charlie, charlie chap lynn or charlie what? >> i think they just loved the name. we had a few charlies in our lives. but they just loved the name. and he is a perfect charlie. is he much younger than me. >> rose: what is i a perfect charlie, i want to know. >> he is really handsome. and very tall. he actually looks-- . >> rose: command of the language is extraordinary.

>> yes, he's really brilliant. my brother is 23, and he's part of this other generation. >> rose: yeah. >> it's fascinating. >> rose: the generation from. >> the millenials. >> rose: sure. >> you know, but he's also very old fashioned in certain ways. he went to oxford. he is very brilliant. and so different from-- three of us are very different. >> rose: what does he do? he doesn't have to do anything, but what does he do. >> he doesn't do anything yet. he's just enjoying life. >> rose: but he's 23. that's way too young about what. >> i don't think he can escaped i believe stink of journalist. >> rose: he has writing instinct. >> he is a great writer and great reader an just a very curious perchl i think the most interesting people are the most interested people. and that is just-- that's how is he. >> rose: i can just see. can i see one of these reality television stories, it would be great or just one, thank giving at the coburns. >> just thank giving. about 16 hours of charades so that might get old after a few

episodes. >> rose: thank you, it's a pleasure to meet you. >> that you so much for having me. >> rose: back in a moment. stay with us. >> for more about this program and earlier episodes visit us online at pbs.org and charlie rose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

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