>> rose: welcome to the program. we begin this evening with a report from dallas, from manny fernandez of the "new york times." >> go back to this morning with the chief, and near the top of that press conference, he gave one of the best summaries of what it's like to be a policeman in america today, and what he said, i've heard from other police officers, and essentially the chief was saying we put too much on our officers, we expect our officers to solve too much of society's problems. schools fail, give it to the cops. there's a loose dog problem in dallas, give it to the cops. he went through this whole litany and he said it's too much, he said we can't do it all. and i've heard that from -- worded differently from a lot of different people in law

enforcement. and i think that that's part of it. i think it's part of it, sort of thinking about what is it we want our officers to be doing? what is their role, you know, and sort of just acknowledging, like, what we ask of them when we put them on the front lines. >> rose: and we continue with comment and perspective from charles blow, a columnist for the "new york times." >> there are two things happening simultaneously here, i think. there is a focus, necessarily, on interpersonal racism, what you and i may share back and forth, whatever biases i may have, whether i'm aware of them or not aware of them, and that's a very real conflict when people come into contact with each other, particularly in heightened situations of kind of stress. there is another conversation being had about the systemic

forces of racism, the kind of racism that does not require any active participation by any particular person, and those are the sorts of structures that push these two populations of people into contact in the first place. >> rose: then we turn to john micklethwait, effort and chief of bloomberg for an analysis of the new prime minister to be in great britain. >> there are a lot of europeans who would argue they are not enthusiastic about george but are now extremely confident to keep him in that place but now aosborne is less toxic of those who want to leave. >> rose: derek pitts, lauren grus h and miriam cramer about what juno spacecraft is learning about jupiter. >> jupiter is probably the first planet to comecnto form after the sun was formed and probably

in a way jupiter represents sort of a museum of the early history of the solar system. the more we can understand about jupiter, the more we can understand about the formation of our solar system and how the plants formed. >> rose: tragedy in >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by the following: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: we begin this evening

with the aftermath of the shootings last thursday night in dallas. the city is in mourning after the five police officers were gunned down at the hands of a lone assassin, micah johnson. the attack marked the deadliest day for law enforcement since 9/11. thursday's massacre came on the heels of two caught on video police shootings of black men in minnesota and louisiana, president obama will speak tomorrow at an interfaith memorial service. president is expected to meet with families and local law enforcement officials. manny fernandez, chief of the bureau at the "new york times," thank you for being with us. >> thank you for having me on. >> rose: give us an expectation of the president and dallas police coming together, with vice president biden. >> dallas is in a very

interesting point now because, on the one hand, when you walk around downtown, it's a very relaxed, typical city. there's a bunch of school kids coming in my hotel as i was leaving, getting ready for some sort of event. yet, on the other hand, there is a hint of tension and there is just a lot of grief. i talked to one police officer yesterday, and he said that it took him 30 minutes to go from his car to go inside a store and buy a coke and then walk out because so many people stopped to shake his hand, to hug him, to interrupt him, to come up to him. and then as i talk to him for a uh few minutes, people came up to him out of the blue and shook his hand, asked him how he was doing. that really sort of kind of captures for me what the city is going through right now. >> rose: part of it, for me, too, is the chief of police seems to have done and

communicates both with the sense of calmness, integrity, and understanding. >> yeah, his role and his sort of performance today at this press conference in the morning really sets the tone, and you're right, he's been extraordinarily personal, he's been extraordinarily frank and honest, he hasn't shied away from talking about race and talking about how hard it is to be a police chief. this morning, he used a little bit of humor. he talked about -- i think i'm quoting verbatim -- he said, my brain is fried. you just don't hear a police chief on the national stage talk about that, use those phrases. he's projected calm.

we talked to a loft african-american residents who trust him and feel calm. >> rose: is there a sense that dallas believes in itself and can recover from this? >> definitely, without a doubt. you hear that not only in the public sort of statements and in the, you know, press releases and in sort of the official side of things, but you see it in the unofficial side, you see it in just talking to people, in just walking around. you know, dallas, everyone is talking about this sort of dallas strong sort of idea. >> rose: yes, yes. and, by the way, can i just say that, you know, dallas has been really sort of, you know, battered in the last couple of years. not only did you have the ebola crisis, but then you also had, last year, you had a gunman in an armoreds;n vehicle attack poe

headquarters downtown, and some of those very officers that were fired on last year were fired on this year, and i just think that that, you know, there is that little sense of a beleaguerment, of a what is happening, but there definitely is a resilience at the same time. >> dallas lived with the idea for a long time after the kennedy assassination that it was the city of hate. >> yes. >> rose: they had to over come that and had overcome that. >> yeah, and that phrase, that motto, that really stung the city, and it continues to sting the city, and one of the things that happened was that, on the anniversary of the j.f.k. assassination, the 50t 50th anniversary, dallas used that as a way to look at itself in the mirror and say, were with we a city of hate? -- were we a city of hate? what does it mean if we were?

what are we now? going through that process, i was there for some of those events, that helped dallas sort of deal with itself and its future and its past. >> rose: and the mayor? how's he doing? >> the same way. i think he's done great. a lot of people have praised what he's doing. you know, these are officials that are going through something extraordinary. they're dealing with the investigation, they're dealing with the grief, they're dealing with a little bit of the chaos, and they're able to not forget that they're human and to sort of talk in very human ways, and i think in a way that helps calm people. it helps calm the city in a lot of ways. >> rose: everybody is asking all kinds of questions about, you know, this unraveling of this relationship between a segment of the population and

the police you. hear eloquent voices within the police like the chief suggesting, you know, we're talking about where there have been awful acts by the police, there's a small minority of the police, that we have a lot of men and women risking their lives and this is a terrible reflexion on them to see these kinds of things and we hate them as much as anyone else does, yet they continue to happen, yet we seem to be a society in not knowing how to find a way to get on the journey to healing. >> you know, that's true. the only thing that comes to mind is i go back to this morning with the chief and near the top of that press conference, he gave one of the best summaries of what it's like to be a policeman in america today. i've heard from other police officers, and essentially the chief was saying we put too much

on our officers, we expect our officers to solve too much of society's problems. >> rose: right. schools fail, give it to the cops. there is a loose dog problem in drays, give to it in dallas, give it to the cops. he went through the litany and he said, it's too much. i've heard it worded differently from a lot of people in law enforcement. i think that's part of it, thinking about what is it we want our officers to be doing? what is their role? you know, and sort of just acknowledging, like, what we ask of them when we put them on the front lines. >> rose: da dan balz wrote in "the washington post," a presidential campaign that convulsed the country in more than a year suddenly seems small in the face in the shocks from dallas, louisiana, minnesota and the racial divisions they exposed again.

he has a point, doesn't he? >> he does. even for the reporters covering, this how are the kids doing, is everyone okay, it really puts things in perspective. there was a false alarm the other day at the dallas police headquarters. there was word of a suspicious person in a parking garage at the back of dallas p.d. headquarters, and that caused a scare downtown. the police shut the streets down. there were s.w.a.t. officers with their weapons, and there were some members of the public who happened to be caught up in this because they were at the memorial outside of the headquarters, and to be there and to talk to regular people and see how scared they are, it brought some of that home. there was this idea of everyone was sort of, like, what's

happening now? what is is this? you know, it struck home. >> rose: manny, thank you for coming. pleasure to have you on the program. hope we can do it again. >> appreciate it. thanks for having me on. >> rose: we'll be right back. stay with us. >> rose: we continue our conversation about police use of force, about force applied and violence applied against the police and the idea of the "black lives matter" movement. we talked to charles blow, a "new york times" op-ed columnist and contributor to cnn. i'm very pleads to have him at the table. welcome. >> thank you. >> rose: you have said this tears at the fabric of our nation. >> right. >> rose: give us a sense of how you -- i mean, whenever we see the one more story, one more story -- >> right. >> rose: -- of a minority person being shot by the police, we say, why?

what's wrong? what do we need? and then when we see something like the rebellion against the police, we say, how could they do that when these are people who are trying to support us, for the vast majority of them? you know? >> right. i mean, there are two things happening simultaneously here, i think. there is a focus necessarily on interpersonal racism. what you and i may share back and forth, whatever biases i may have, whether i'm aware of them or not aware of them, and that's a very real conflict when people come into contact with each other, particularly in heightened situations of kind of stress. there is another conversation being had about the systemic forces of racism, the kind of racism that does not require any active participation by any particular person and those are the sorts of structures that

push these two populations of people into contact in the first place, and i think that having both those conversations simultaneously are really incredibly important is that some will draw the line back to slavery and say we have never dealt with the aftermath of slavery even though there has been huge amounts of racial progress and laws have been changed. >> absolutely, laws have been changed, sufficient dealing with slavery, you may actually argue that has not taken place. but in addition to that, we also have to talk about all the things that happened after slavery, all the structural inequities that we as a society put into place from federal, state and local municipalities that created the kind of continueconcentrated poverty wee that created the american ghetto, everything from housing policies, loan and banking

policies, these are infrastructure decisions about where we put our highways and streets and ways in and out of our cities, all of these are kind of systemic, structural things that we did as a society that created powder kegs, and then we then say, oh, these are personal choices that people have made to live in the toughest, most violent, poorest part of our cities, they simply made the choice to live there. in fact, they have not. we have designed a system that created those places. then we say, well, there is violence bubbling up out of these places and that's why our police are there. but, no, we have to take the responsibility that we as americans created these places and these are our chickens coming home to roost and we have to deal with often tangling all of -- with untangling all of that at the same time we with're dealing with the tip of the

spear, last interactions we're dealing with. all of that has to be dealt with simultaneously. >> rose: how do you do it? to deal with it means what? >> part of dealing with it is kind of legislative. there are, in fact, ways to deal with overpolicing. we make decisions about over-policing, whether or not it's stop and frisk in new york city or the colossal disaster that was the war on drugs, we made cultural decisions that this was how we were going to deal with particular problems, and dealing with those problems had incredible racial imbalances embedded in them. so we can take legislative steps to change our policies. that is really important. martin luther king once said, the law may not make you love me, but it can stop you from lynching me. the idea that we can do things

that will kind of limit the adverse impact on particular populations is a real the thing. separate from that, thi there ie moral argument that must be won that says that there are not populations that are genetically prone to this violence, that there are conditions under which human beings behave in certain ways and we have contributed to making those conditions ripe for certain populations in this country and that we have to, as a country, figure out ways to back off from that. >> rose: is that presidential leadership or is it grassroots leadership? >> i think it's all sorts of leadership, right, so that is this president and whoever the next one may be setting the proper tone for how to engage in

a conversation, but it is also people voicing their opinions in protest and what have you. >> rose: i mentioned this to manny fernandez and we talked about it, it clearly is the president who has the bully pulpit and the executive resources to say, you know, we need the full weight of the community behind this. this is urgent, this is demanding, this is necessary. >> i think that he can do that, but as you and i both know, policing is kind of a local. it's not federal. he can talk but it's very little federal government can do with local policing. we have to change hearts and minds so people who believe they are not part of this discussion, who look at it and say this is a conflict between the people who wear blue and people born into

brown and black skin and that rub is happening separate from me and you, that's actually not the case. you are complicit in whatever the police do in this country because police simply are articulations of our desires and mores and laws. >> rose: whenever there is an act of violence and over-excessive use of force, then everybody is complicit in that act? >> no, i'm saying we are complicit if all of the architecture that pushes more and more of these people together and increases the number of interactions and then, when you increase the number of interactions, invariably, some one person will do some one thing wrong and that will be the end result of what we have done as a society to push them together in the first place. >> rose: to puck the -- to

push the button. >> right. >> rose: this is a decade kind of endeavor we have to make? >> i do believe these sorts of changes are generational changes. if you look at the kind of civil rights movements of our times, they've all been generational. it looks like it happens within a couple of years but in fact there was a lot of groundwork that went into it, the civil rights movement, gay movement, women's libbing regulation movement -- women's liberation movement, all of them. >> rose: we always say this about gun control, these kinds of moments, that this one has been so troubling, the combination of baton rouge to dallas, that at long last we will wake up, or do you believe something else will come along and two weeks from now we'll be talking about something else?

>> strangely enough, i am kind of maybe ill logically optimistic always about this. >> rose: yeah, me, too. i actually believe that there is sort of an awakening of young people and being able to connect the dots, historical, cultural, present about what the system has done and how they operate and make choices in it. i believe that enlightenment is positive advance. whether or not it immediately leads to some sort of peace and harmony, i have no clue. i believe, however, strongly in the long-term effect that knowledge is, in fact, a transformative thing and that coming into knowledge of self, coming into knowledge of systems is a transformative thing and

that, in the long run, we will look back on this and see all of the ups and downs and all of the strife, that it was part of a positive. >> rose: i can hear people within reach of your voice thinking, i hope he's right. i want to talk about "black lives matter" and rudy giuliani, and in terms of i firmly believe he believes what he says, what do you say about that? >> you mean him saying it is inherently racist? >> rose: yeah, and black-on-black crime is a predominant crime in black neighborhoods and white-on-white in white neighborhoods, and white police are called into black neighborhoods to do whatever. >> yes, of course. it's a fascinating deflection to

say that people who point out that there are people who have been racially oppressed and want to lift those people out of that racial oppression by centering them in the conversation and elevate them to you are paying attention to what they have suffered are people whom are called racist. it's an incredible thing and an amazingly rhetorical slight of hand that you see all the time now. in terms of this idea that, you know, black communities are inherently violent and that white people are actually saving black people from killing themselves, that argument is inherently racist because it

says at its base that there is something deficient and defective about you that we just save you from -- that we must save you from yourselves, rather than turning the lens -- >> rose: that's deeply racist. absolutely. >> rose: "black lives matter," where did it start and what is its mission? >> i'm not part of "black lives matter." it gained steam after the mike brown killing in ferguson, right? >> rose: right. and it has grown incredibly as an idea. this is both the formal structure of it, which is there are actually chapters, you know, but there are also people who just sympathize with, and that actually makes it kind of tricky because people -- you know, we in media will say these are "black lives matter" protesters. we actually don't know. sometimes people just show up.

you don't have to get an admissions ticket to the march. you can just show up and say, i'm supporting this idea. >> rose: are they having an impact? >> i think they're having an incredible impact. >> rose: they have been given an idea of power. >> they have kind of grabbed the conversation. they are kind of directing part of the conversation. you have to think, three or four years ago, who was advocating for these ideas of police restraint, improvement of black communities on a national scale that could mobilize people and get them into the streets is this there were people who did work, of course, but they have been able to, you know, within a very short period of time move tremendous numbers of people into action. that should not go without notice. >> rose: thank you for coming. thank you. >> rose: pleasure to have you. thanks for having me.

>> rose: charles blow from the "new york times." back in a moment. stay with us. >> rose: we continue with british politics. the home secretary merged victorious. david cameron will hand in his resignation to the queen. announced he would step down after british voters opted to leave the european union. john micklethwait, pleased to have him on all things british .

where is david cameron going? >> i expect he will stay in parliament for a bit. he as generally been a lucky politician. >> rose: does he consider himself a chosen child. >> i think he considers himself very unlucky. i think he thinks if boris johnson and michael gove had not rebelled against him, had not gone to the leave side, i think he thinks he probably would have won and he may well be right on that. >> rose: and can always come back to the second act. >> that's what you've seen in the tory leadership race has been a follow on to that. theresa may inherited george osborne's machine in what he imagined would be his attempt to be the next leader. o>> rose: what happens to

george osborne? >> the big question is does may keep osborne or say phillip hammond replaces him. a lot of the leaders were with not enthusiastic and osborne but now are confidence. may was a remainder. >> rose: whoo what happens to boris johnson? >> boris johnson is in an unusual position. all of his life, he's been loved, sometimes not always wholly, but he's plead the people laugh and been the court jester. he was funny and clever and and amusing and it seemed to be

going well. he was ambitious. he saw his chance when the referendum was called and a lot of friends of his would say that he expected the referendum to be won by remain and he would then be the person who led the leave campaign which would leave him wonderfully well positioned with the conservative, you know, the members of the conservative party. >> rose: he counted on remain winning. >> to some extent. he would deny that to the end of his days but there was an element of that. >> rose: created havoc in their country. >> that's a new world to him. he's living with something unexpected. david cameron is living with something with which he always knew was possible but i think the full ramifications of it is very, very new to him. what he does, i think he doesn't have an idea yet. theresa may is a solid, not necessarily flamboyant figure, daughter of a pastor, and i

think a large reason why the conservatives persuaded andrea letsen, who was a loose artillery barrage. she was someone from well outside the mainstream. >> rose: how does the new prime minister differ from david cameron? >> i think she differs from david cameron in the sense she comes from a slightly less posh background, she isn't hit with that particularly label. she's less flamboyant than him. he famously appeared by going to the arctic to follow huskies on a sled to show his concern there. she's a slight side tougher. >> rose: margaret thatcher in her? >> a tiny bit but less radical. she's a very conservative person with a small "c." she's a little bit ahead on some

things, on one thing that's quite liberal, she was an early supporter of same-sex marriage but on the other side tough on immigration. she's a little like angela merkel in that she has a reputation of being pragmatic, she gets things done. perhaps the single thing she did up till now a which stood out is she was home secretary. if you don't like another politician in british politics you make them home secretary. they never normally last more than two years. >> rose: at least a vast difference between constituency and the members of parliament. >> it's like you have bernie sanders activists choosing the head of it and all the people to the well to the right in the senate. they do not know what to do. all the m.p.s want jeremy

corbyn. andrea letson might have been popular with the grassroots of the tory party. on the other side of the fence, you have jeremy corbyn who is less popular with the labour m.p.s and andrea letson is less popular. the tory party as usual in some ways found somebody to rally around. there was talk of she walked into a room as the house of commons, everyone made a huge noise and thumped on something. they're happy and think they've survived. on the labour side, there's talk of splits. the left split. we have th the era of s.t.p.

>> rose: her primary challenge is to negotiate the departure from the e.u.? >> yes, the one thing she said is she will not start that till next year. the reason why that's canny is for the british to file their divorce proceedings, they need to launch article 50, which is effectively you hand the process over to the rest of the europeans, including ms. merkel, who at least on the face of the thing is saying get on with it and we can start chucking you out as soon as possible. that gives the british very little leverage. later they file, the easier it is to get a pre-deal. once they file it, you're on a two-year process and you're out. she's been relatively clever on that. her questions, one, the chancellor. >> rose: and a possibility she'll select george a osborne?

>> there is a possibility. they had various rows when she was chancellor. >> rose: the strategy contributed to the victory by lee? >> i think you can argue it both ways. if print had not been relatively tight in the way it was, i think britain would not have had that reputation of being an economy on the growth and there would be less growth. what's undoubtedly true is the british version of globalization is one where most rewards tended to go to the people at the top. i think there will be people who will jump up and down and say he shouldn't have been so austere. but he established a reputation for print as being a prudent ad efficient place. >> rose: will there be any

advantage for print not to be in the european union that you can see? >> yes. >> rose: a sense that we've regained our sovereignty? >> i think there is a potential way, two potential ways britain could do well outside the e.u. i argued for remain, i was on the other side, but there are two ways in which it can do well. number one, if it negotiators a very good deal with the e.u. which gives it some sort ofic a seases to the single -- access to the single market and moderating immigration. that's the sort of deal -- i saw the minister who said we could maybe get that. the scanne scandinavians, they'n the e.u. but not the euro, and traditionally have hidden behind the british. the british have been the ones to take the fight to french and germans and the scandinavians will feel lonely without them.

tall financiers in europe would rather be in other places. print gets a decent deal from europe and ends up as an associate member or something close. the second one is ultimately -- there is, as long as the main part of europe remains a sche rottic inward looking economy, the second one in which liberal brexit argued and would be agree trading structures deals with america. >> rose: they pulled that off. they look good then. the problem with the second one is it would take a long time to achieve and the second problem sit might be an even less equal economy than it is now and that causes another set of problems. >> rose: thank you for coming. thank you, charlie. >> rose: back in a moment. > tuesday morning n.a.s.a.'s juno spacecraft made the

1.8 billion-mile journey to jupiter's atmosphere, took five years, cost $1.14 billion and will give us a view of the disdens clouds to have the plant. joining me are chief astronomer and plantarrian director for the franklin institute derek pitts, lauren grush of the verge and marian cramer of mashable. i am pleased to have everyone here. derek is in philadelphia. derek, so good to see you again and talk about this because it fascinates some of us. let me start with this, derek, why was this insertion into jupiter's atmosphere so complicated? >> well, what complicates it is first it's going to be a polar orbit situation and they're trying to set up an orbital path to allow the spacecraft to avoid the most damaging portions of the magnetic field and the

radiation fields of jupiter, jupiter being the gigantic plant et has the strongest magnetic and worst radiation field you can imagine and we're talking about sense tye electronics in the spacecraft so they want to not only get it there on time and at the right location so they can get it into the proper orbit but they can sure the proper orbit sets up the spacecraft so it cannot only do all the scientific examination it has to do but also aadvised the worst part of the magnetic field and the radiation ield as it makes the 37 orbits around the planet. >> rose: so you essentially have to construct this armor? >> well, there is a couple of things you have to do, really. there's two parts to this. one of them is you can try to do this avoidance maneuvering. setting up the orbit so you can miss the nasty belts of radiation and magnetism but the other thing is you can physically do something with the electronics on the spacecraft. the word typically used is hardening. when you harden a circuit, you

set it up in a way to protect it as best you can from excess radiation and magnetic fields in. this particular case, they've gone a giant step further and created a 400-pound vault made of half-inch thick titanium into which they've put the main computers and most of the electronics for the experiments that are going to be used as the planet exams jupiter, and the hope is that they can reduce the amount of radiation that this gets in every pass. this is called the flux, and they want to see what they can do to drive down the total dose, which is the total amount of radiation that the spacecraft will receive during the time it's there. now, they know that the amount of radiation that will be received is going to be degrading the electronics, but, over time, they hope that they will be able to get enough work done before the electronics are really damaged beyond repair, if you will, in these 37 orbits that the vault that they're in,

that electronics are in, will do quite a bit to protect them from so much damage. >> miriam, you were at the jet propulsion laboratory when this was put into orbit. can you talk about that experience a little bit? >> yeah, it was very exciting, even for the sort of hardened reporters who are there to follow along with us and report on it to our readers. it was this kind of electric feeling because we had a press conference in the morning and then there was basically a whole bunch of time when we were sitting around and able to talk to scientists and all of them were so nervous about making sure that juno got into orbit. because it's a very dangerous maneuver for the spacecraft even as hardened as it is. actually, putting something into orbit around jupiter is difficult. >> lauren, this is a small group of dedicated scientists and journalists who are emeshed in

this issue so it's been fascinating to talk to you about this and see the energy. in terms of the difficult jobs accomplished in the past, where does is this ranked. >> scott bolton said this is the hardest thing n.a.s.a.'s ever done and i think a lot of people will take issue with that statement but just talking about the insane orbit it had to do. there was a lot of unknowns. they knew a little bit about the radiation environment around jupiter but really didn't know how it was going to affect the spacecraft when it first inserted itself and also they had a press conference right before it happened talking about there is actually this debris field that is kind of similar to the astroid belt that we had. there are micrometeorites and debris around jupiter, and juno is one of the fastest ever

launched, and fit had hit juno it would have been blown. everyone was on pins and needles and made it more sweet when it turned out to be a success. >> i bet. i heard someone say jupiter could hold the key to everything. is that hyperbole? why is jupiter being taken so seriously now? >> when you look a at the h history of the solar system, jef, jupiter is probably the first planet to come into the solar system after the the sun was formed and represents a museum of the early history of the solar system. the more we can understand about jupiter, the more we can understand about the solar system and thousand planets formed. there are several models in existence now of how solar systems form, and we're looking at information to identify which one of the models best fits what we have now. without the information about jupiter and the other gas

planets, we're left wanting as to pick which one best fits our model best. so by examining jupiter and particularly the atmosphere and deepest interior to identify what kind of core there is at the center of this mass of gas, these factors will help us understand how our solar system came into existence. now this also becomes incredibly important now that we are identifying sorely systems this other parts of the glaks y. it's in the biggest news in astronomy over the last five years or so that there are so many other stars with planets and it's now beginning to look like almost every star in our galaxy has a planet and the question comes up how are the solar systems forming. when we look around the galaxy, we see snapshots of the development of solar systems. we can't see the entire process. it takes too long. we haven't developed the

equipment to allow us to see it well. we need models and confirmation of models and that's how jupiter will help us not only with our solar systems but identifying how other solar systems come into formation. >> we talked about how journalists cover these topics and historically that has not been replete with women. you both represent -- and it's fascinating to talk to you, but what has been an unusual situation, i wonder is that changing and what was it about this field that interested you so much? >> i think it's absolutely change. i looked around in the news room at j.p.l. when the whole orbit insertion was happening and it was mostly women. >> your parents are both n.a.s.a. engineers? >> correct. i love space so much because i've grown up with people who

have been very enthusiastic about it and my mother is such a great example of a woman who is a damn good engineer. so, yeah, it's kind of been in my blood for a while. >> miriam, where did you get it from? >> i've always been interested in science and kind of came into space and space flight through that. so i have been a science journalist for a while and my beat has always been space, and i love it. there's always so much fascinating stuff. >> it's such a great field. granted, with all of the other things going on in the world, i mean, yeah, there are some things to criticize about space and space policy but most often it's a very upbeat and optimistic field to cover and there's always something new and innovative going on and it just shows how capable we are as a species and how far we've come. i think that's much more fun to report on. >> i'd like to say it's aspirational. no matter what, at the end of the day, we're going for things

we've never gone for before. this juno orbit insertion, we've never done something like that and being able to cover it and be there for it, it feels like the best humanity has to you ever. >> and even -- the best humanity has to offer. >> even fairly is a great even failure is a great thing because because, even if juno hadn't gone into orbit, we've sent a spacecraft to another solar system. there is much to be had in reporting on space. >> derek, i never knew how you came to this field. >> well, when i was a kid, i was the one kid on my block who was always interested in science, always interested in place exploration. so when i was probably, you know, 10, 11, 12 years old, this is about the time that the missions to the moon are

starting in earnest, and it was my thing to do to learn everything about the technology of the saturn 5 launch vehicles and the apollo spacecraft, everything i could get my hands on, i ate that stuff for breakfast. >> can i ask you about the moon, because there was this comment lauren mentioned about this being the most difficult thing n.a.s.a.'s ever done. n.a.s.a.'s done pretty difficult things in the past. not to be too skeptical of the juno mission, but is that too much? >> we can look at a whole different range of different kind of missions and look how difficult these migs are. for example -- how difficult these missions are. the lunar missions, now we have humans involved, another level of difficult and concern, we want to make sure the astronauts come back every chance we can make that happen, that's one level.

the jupiter orbit insertion is another level of that. the new horizons commission, for example, last -- mission last summer, that was a seriously critical issue of making sure not only were the calculations correct for when the close approach was to occur, but we have to realize hat the engineers are modifying all the way along toward that close approach to make sure that the window is hit at exactly the right time so all the science can be done because the spacecraft is traveling at incredible speeds an and the fly will go by quickly, so there is another instance you can say that's probably the most difficult thing n.a.s.a.'s ever had to do. so you look at them in different classes and you find these engineers are just incredible at being able to put all these different factors together to make these missions work.

it's staggering. >> they produce pretty good journalists, those engineers, as well. lauren, i want to talk about more of the specifics of the juno mission. you have these 3-d printed parts, right? >> yes, and they were the first 3-d printed parts to fly on a spacecraft n.a.s.a.'s built, i believe. >> extraordinary, and something we'll see more in the future. >> 3-d printing is becoming an integral part of what n.a.s.a. does. they have a couple of printers on the international space station and it's great for creating parts you need on the fly. like with the i.s.s., a lot tas to be launched on the ground, but if something breaks a 3-d printing can be a real good stopgap in the main time. >> a game changer? yeah, i think so, and even private companies are catching on. spacex are using 3-d printing to build their engines and using

things to launch in space. >> how is spacex doing? there have been failures and successes. >> i'd say far more successes than failures as far as spacex goes. their track record sib credible. >> they're changing the game now because people aren't flocking to spacex launches for their launches actually, they're flocking to them because they do the crazy landings. the last one didn't work out so well, but they learned from that. they have been able to land four rockets, at this point, and that's insane. that is really incredible. >> it's amazing to think how critical we are, derek, right, that we're no longer judging the takeoffs but the actual landings when it comes back down? >> and that's a whole new field spacex is pursuing the idea of the vertical landing bringing back the booster so it can be reusable.

we find this is something that all of the other technologies are using, the other companies in the commercial line are beginning to look at making use of this so that the booster systems are reusable. but, you know, spacex really has been remarkable. but it's those technologies or the development of those technologies that will help drive that side of the space business and make it more viable and a usable part of everything n.a.s.a. is doing. sometimes i think about how spacex is doing what it's doing is thinking of it as outsourcing some of the easiest tasks that n.a.s.a. could perform. juno at jupiter. as these special entities take on this work, they have the ability to do things, the latitude to do things that perhaps n.a.s.a. can't do as easily. but what they're doing is adding to our capability to access low earth orbit, to be able to put

up different kinds of pay loads, to create different systems that can work together and get far more done than one system itself. so it's great to see what spacex is doing along with orthocompanies expanding in that direction, too. >> as we talk about the union, after juno is finished, derek, we're not going to have a spacecraft looking closely at one of the planets for the first time in a long time, right? >> that's true. actually, there will still be spacecraft looking at planets up close, particularly mars. the mars reconnaissance orbiter has been orbiting mars for i don't know how long now, it's been a while, and the mission on that has been extended. the issue is we don't have anything in the pipeline for further exploration in the solar system for major planets coming up. another way to look at this,

actually, jeff, is that, over the last 40 years, n.a.s.a.'s done a really tremendous job of looking at all the planets of our solar system either in fly-by or in close-up orbital missions, like -- just like we've seen at jupiter with galileo and now with juno, it's not to say that there isn't more work that needs to be done, but when we look at what n.a.s.a. is given for resources to use for space exploration and how that funding has to be divvied up among the different kinds of things n.a.s.a. wants to achieve, somewhere along the line something will break down in terms of being able to fund ever thing. so as n.a.s.a. turns more toward developing the infrastructure and capability to go look at mars with manned missions, there's a lot of that money is going to be going in that direction and there will be less money available for space science, for kinds of mission wes see this week -- missions we

see this week. >> we'll have to leave it there. a fascinating discussion. derek pitts joining us from philadelphia, thank you so much. lauren from the verge and miriam, thank you all very much. >> thank you. >> rose: for more about this program and earlier episodes, visit us online at pbs.org and charlierose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

>> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. >> rose: on the next charlie rose, president obama in dallas with former president george bush and vice president joe biden. join us.

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