welcome to the program, day one at the democratic national convention in philadelphia. we begin with robbie mouk, hillary clinton's campaign manager. >> what we ask supporters, they care about the economy, they care about security. people can trust hillary clinton to deliver on these issues. and that is what this convention is going to be about. we are going to talk about those deep motivations, her faith, her belief in fighting for kids and families, breaking down barriers so that people can get ahead. we are actually going to spend time, unlike the republican convention talking about the things she has done, the things she has accomplished. >> we continue with matthew dowd and steve mcmahon. >> i think you, you are watching something significant that occurred in america in the last 150 years. i think we are headed toward it and headed towards a growth of something new, new parties, something new, a changed, a changed democratic party, changed republican party but we are headed there. >> also this evening, jd.

>> she needs to get her favorable rating up. it has at times been as high as the mid sixties, you will never get it back, there but i think that does suggest there is some give and i think the party has to put up a credible politics of hope against trump's politics of fear. and the key is credible, people who are hurting have to believe that what she wants to do will do something for them. >> and this from the democratic national convention. >> when she didn't win the nomination eight years ago, she didn't get angry or disillusioned. she -- hillary did not pack up and go home. because as a true public servant, hillary knows that this is so much bigger than her own

desires and disappointments. so she proudly stepped up to serve our country once again as secretary of state, traveling the ghoab to keep our kids safe. and look, there were plenty of moments when hillary could have decided that this work was too hard, that price of public service was too high, that she was tired of being picked apart for how she looks or how she talks or even how she laughs. but here is the thing. what i admire most about hillary is that she never buckled under pressure. she never takes easy way out. and hillary clinton has never quit on anything in her life.

and when i think about the kind of president that i want for my girls and all our children, that's what i want. i want someone with the proven strength to persevere, someone who knows this job and takes it seriously, someone who understands that the issues a president faces are not black and white and cannot be boiled down to 140 characters. because when you have the nuclear codes at your fingertips and the military in your command, you can't make snap decisions. you can't have a thin skin or a tendency to lash out. you need to be steady and measured and well informed.

i want a president with a record of public service, someone whose lifework shows our children that we don't chase game and fortune for ourselves. we fight to give everyone a chance to succeed. and we give back, even when we are struggling ourselves, because we know that there is always -- there but for grace of god go i. now, we are here tonight because america faces a choice, the choice of a new president. on one side, is a man who inherited a fortune from his father and kept it going by cheating people, by skipping out on debts, a man who has never sacrificed anything for anyone.

a man who cares only for planet. strong enough to win those fights. we are here today because our choice is hillary clinton. i am with hillary. i am with hillary. i am with hillary. you know, for me, this choice is personal. >> day one of the democratic national convention, next. >> funding for charlie rose is provided by the following.

>> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> welcome to the program. we are at the democratic national convention in philadelphia. we are talking to robbie music, the campaign manager for hillary clinton. she the man who along with her and dedicated professional staffers brought this campaign to the convention where their candidate will be nominated whether he talk this evening about strategy, about difficulties, about bernie sanders, about barack obama, and about what the campaign has to

do to win. >> first of all this is part of what you worked for. >> you were the campaign manager. you wanted to come to a convention see your candidate nominated. >> absolutely. >> accept the nomination and on to a general election. >> and make history. i mean this is a really historic moment and this is the first time in our history a woman is going to be nominated by a major party to be president. it is especially exciting too. >> but there are troubles. trouble one is e-mail business that erupted today. you are still going to allow her to speak? >> well, as chairman of the dnc. >> the chairman woman said today that she decided not to gavel in. i presumed that means also she won't be speaking. and -- but, you know, look, i don't think there is trouble at all. i think what we have actually had so far has been a really successful convention. the first section today was about getting the party business done. i am really proud to say we passed the most progressive agenda and platform in our history by acclamation and without any minority reports. we voted through the rules of

the convention. no "minority report"s. and we voted for a unity commission. >> so this is this the most liberal democratic party in history? >> i this think is the most progressive platform and to me that means that it is focused squarely on creating an economy that works for everyone, not just those at the top. >> but the party has this democratic party in this election year, perhaps because of bernie sanders has moved to the left? >> i think what is actually happening is the republicans and donald trump have moved so far to the right. i don't think anything of what is in our platform is particularly exotic or out of the mainstream. we are looking to do something about climate change. we are looking to do something to make college affordable. we are looking to raise the minimum wage where we want women to get to be paid the same amount as men. i don't think these are out of the mainstream ideas at all. >> let's talk about what you believe about how those e-mails were received. how did -- who stole them?

are and what was the motivation? >> well, look, i am not an it expert and i am not an international affairs expert but what the people who are experts are saying to us is first and foremost the russian state actors did break into the dnc system. they stole these e-mails. and that as a result they are likely the ones who leaked them for the purpose of disrupting this convention, disrupting the campaign. and hurting hillary clinton. i think the other thing we have seen in the last few weeks is that donald trump said that he doesn't think the united states should necessarily defend our eastern european allies against the russians. he also made the republican platform russian friendly. >> you think the russians are trying to influence the american elections and, therefore, they hacked the dnc? >> the experts have told us that russian state actors were the ones who took the e-mails and likely the ones who released them and probably did it for the purpose of helping donald trump. >> that's the interesting point.

probably did. there is no evidence they did it to influence the american election? >> well, i think it is awfully convenient timing that these e-mails were leaked on the eve of our convention. i think it is a highly suspicious coincidence but again we need to let the experts investigate this. we are told the fbi is now investigating which i think is probate and get the facts. >> has anybody told you the russians intended to do this in order to influence the election and see donald trump elected president? anybody? >> no one -- no one has made that direct connection yet. what with eno is the dnc was broken into. we do not have knowledge the rnc was broken into and no similar leaks to hurt donald trump. that's what we know. >> so what happens next in this story? >> well, the dnc is conducting a review, obviously, appropriate action will be taken, but, look, we are really proud of the campaign and the primary that we ran with bernie sandersers. we are working hand in hand with them here at this convention. we ran a primary on ideas.

those ideas are reflected in our platform, and we are going to be working together, senator sanders has said he will work on behalf of secretary clinton. >> rose: have you seen his speech? >> i have. >> rose: you have? >> yes, i have. >> rose: so what is the tone? what can you tell us about it? >> i think it is -- i think it is supportive, it is enthusiastically supportive and a call to action to all progressives, independents, republicans, democrats to come together and make sure hillary clinton is elected president. >> so a speech fully backing hillary? >> hillary clinton. >> yes. and ted cruz went to the republican convention and didn't endorse trump. bernie sanders is coming to the democratic convention having already endorsed hillary clinton and he is going to endorse her again today. >> but sheer the question. does his endorsement of her simply represent his personal endorsement or is he saying i want my delegates to do that? that's the first question. and are they listening to him? >> because throughout this crowd you will see people with tape

over their face and they have been boisterous. >> yes. >> they have been noisy. they have been protesting. >> well, look, it is boisterous. we have been conducting the party business. people have strong views about this platform but it passed by acclamation is what matters and unified and no minority reports let's look at the polling. the pew poll showed in 2008 somewhere in the high sixties supporters of secretary clinton were supporting obama over 80 percent today of sanders supporters are supporting secretary clinton. so the data reflects that the party is consolidating and coming together. >> there are a lot of dell bats together to make their choice heard. everybody's voice needs to be heard but we are unified. >> my sense is a deal hasn't been closed in terms of getting the sanders delegates on board. >> i think the first day of the convention you have got some work to do. >> well, i think, let's be clear. a lot of them today were holding up signs about the trans-pacific

trade deal. that is something that bernie sanders opposes that is something hillary clinton opposes so a lot of the views that are being expressed are not necessarily a reflection of hillary clinton. thethere are simply making their voices heard, especially in the context of passing a platform. >> you heard in an interview i did and what scott pelley did the question that has been raised and she talks about trust. how do you overcome that somehow do you want your candidate to overcome that? is it the speech she gives? is it the support of barack obama and bernie sanders? and michelle obama? >> well, first of all,. >> rose: for is it her words on thursday night? >> i think this is something that has to come from her. she has said and she is right, she needs to earn the voters trust and support and she is setting out to do that. but when we step back and think about what does this really mean? you know, what we asked supporters what do they care about, they care about the economy, they care about security. people can trust hillary clinton to deliver on

these issues. and that is what this convention is going to be about. we are going to talk about those deep motivations, her faith, her belief in fighting for kids and families. breaking down barriers so that people can get ahead. we are actually going to spend time unlike the republican convention talking about the things she has done, the things she has accomplished. you are going to have real people every day people on that stage talking about the things she has done for them and the difference she has made in their life. >> that's different than the republican convention. >> rose: are you surprised that having been in politics, as long as she has, first lady of arkansas to secretary of state, candidate and nominee of the democratic party that there are still questions about character and about trust and about who she is? >> well, look, hillary clinton has been a pine mere for women in this country, and she has fought hard for things like healthcare reform. she fought for healthcare reform in the nineties and failed. what did she do? she got back up and kept fighting and work worked with

newt gingrich republican cock and republicans until we got the health insurance program. what does that do? that puts a target on you. she has been the subject of relentless attacks from republicans for decades. why were the republicans investigating benghazi? they said themselves it was to suppress her poll numbers. so she has taken a lot of hits and a lot of scars to show for the fights she has had about what we are going to talk about tonight which doesn't get told enough b be because she is a workhorse not a show horse, the story we are going to fell is the amazing things she has accomplished and the real difference she has made in people's lives. >> rose: what do you mean she is a workhorse not a show horse? >>, you know, it is funny. you talk to people on the street, they don't know the hillary clinton got the children's health insurance passed. they don't know she got the biggest reduction in nuclear arms as decades a as secretary f state and a pioneer ending sex trafficking around the world as secretary of state. >> rose: do they know what she achieved as secretary of state? >> it is things i just said, reduction in nuclear arms. >> rose: that's achievement of the president as well. >> well, but let's be clear, it

is the secretary of state is in that room negotiating, but to your point you are going to hear president obama today or rather at this convention talking about the kind of leader she was as a secretary of state, and the things that she accomplished there. >> rose: she accepts the nomination on thursday night. you have done your job but your work is just beginning. >> yes. >> give us a sense of whether you worry this general electric is going to be a dive, general, this general elect is, election is going to be worse in terms of insults and character assassination we have ever seen and does that turn people off? >> i think -- i think the election could be that. i think the republican convention was that. you heard doom and gloom. you heard a lot of talk about hillary clinton. we barely heard anything about specific ideas that donald trump had to actually make a difference for people. he didn't talk about, you know, what his true business record was because he doesn't want to. but what you are going the to hear in our convention is an

uplifting, positive view of the future. hillary clinton is going to talk about how we can make our country stronger, by coming together, making the biggest investment in jocks in 70 years. making college affordable again, 2 the situation free college for working and middle class families. i think this can -- >> rose: is that your ideas or bernie sanders's ideas. >> it is a combination of both. her college plan is a marriage of both of their policies from the primary, i think it is stronger as a result of that. but my overall point is, this can be an uplifting election and the next presidential tenure can be one where we make great progress. but donald trump wants to seek to divide us, to convince us america has fallen behind and not great again. he has called, insupplemented our military, our armed forces which are the finest in the world. so, yes, it can be what you are talking about but it doesn't have to be. >> rose: mere is what is interesting. take all of that, a man has never run for president before, never run for elective october and, office and never held legislative office. you described him the way you did, she has had this remarkable

resume, the president calls it the most significant resume of anyones to run for president, if not the most experienced person to ever run for president, yes this seems like a very close race. why is that? >> well, every presidential contest in modern types has been competitive. that is just a fact. and that is going to remain the fact. and look, voters are very restless in this country. >> rose: what is that about? >> well, because the economy isn't working for everyone and the political process isn't doing anything about it. >> rose: but are they the people that voted for donald trump? the economy is not doing something for them, they are not college graduates, people who are hurt, income insecurity. >> yes. >> rose: economic discontent and frustrated by washington and wall street. >> here is why they don't won't end up voting for donald trump because at every point in his life he has done whatever it takes to become more famous or make more of a profit, when he manufactures those ties and shirts and suits, they are made overseas, yet when he is out on

the stump he talks about protecting jobs here in america. he built the taj mahal casino, you know,, a grand opening, when it started to fail, he pulled out, made off with a lot of money and left everybody else footing the bill, working people lost their jobs. voters need to hear this, an they need to know this, but when they understand that donald trump is fundamentally not on their side and when they realize he is the most divisive figure in our recent political history, they will realize, he will create more gridlock in washington and create more policies that hurt working class people. >> rose: in this convention -- >> that sat huge part of this convention, attack. >> rose: attack donald trump? >> no making the case that hillary clinton will be a fighter, every day for working people but also that donald trump would be a massive mistake for working people. >> rose: you have 800 people on the campaign staff? >> we have people i in all 50 states. >> rose: but that is is a far larger number that donald trump? >> that is a choice he made. >> rose: you have far more

money than donald trump. you just characterized donald trump. is it just simply because you think all elections for the president are essentially equal in the beginning that you think it looks the way it does right now? >> in modern times that has been the case. these elections are always very close. they come down to a certain set of battle frowned states. you mentioned donald trump doesn't have a very big campaign organization. >> rose: or much money. >> or much money. look, but that relates to organization. i think it is a mistake. he is taking votes for granted, he is not investing in resources to -- >> rose: you are so strong, have so much money that you are come play sent and no sense, complacent .. no sense of urgency and challenge in in election. >> oh that is -- that is not true. i think it would be a mistake to be that way. it would be a mistake to think anything about this election is easy. it is going to be incredibly hard and the hillary will have to earn every single vote. >> rose: thank you. >> thank you. >> rose: we will be right back. stay with us.

>> we continue with matthew dowd, se chief political analyst at abc news and steve mcmahon a democratic strategist and cofounder of purple strategies i am pleased to have both of them here. well here we are. >> bernie sanders in prime time. this was supposed to be a professional operation. >> yes. >> i think the only thing we went from is amateur dispunks to professional dysfunction. but they are both dysfunctional. >> i mean last week how could anybody not be organized and now we have got organization but big problems. >> yes. >> and rub aring their hands together, you can't wait to see a real convention and we have one. >> rose: is this a big deal or not? >> well, i mean, to the extent it dominates the coverage today and tomorrow, it is an unpleasant reality but i don't think it is a big deal. these things rise a little bit when the conventions occur, you saw that last week with donald trump and then they sort of fall back into their natural state which i think you will see next week. she should get a bump out of this convention if historical measures are sort of predictive

here. >> rose: depending on the polls, which they are even, cbs and a poll he is up two to three. >> right. which is pretty much the three, four, five-point bounce you normally if net a convention. what happens usually though is it is a little bit like a golf ball going through a garden hose, it works it its way through and the race returns where its natural state is and matthew and i were talking a little bit before i got on and seems like the natural state of this race is three, four points in hillary's advantage that doesn't mean she couldn't lose it and donald trump couldn't win it but that's where it should be, three, four, five points. >> i think it is an amazing thing we are going to hook on 0 to two conventions about $200 million is going to be spent and all of this fanfare and all is a little like the new york yankees buying players and what happened and they still finish third that is what is going to a happen, to the same place it was. the other thing -- >> not always. >> but the other thing about bernie sanders is this is what happens when you start a revolution. >> right. >> once you start a revolution it is very hard to stop it, i think it is akin to our kids when you basically feed them

jolt cola and chocolate and tell them a scary story you can't put them to sleep quietly. >> it is a different thing with donald trump who said i alone will fix things, in bernie is not totally in control of what the delegates do, it is in fact a movement of a kind. >> yes, it is and what happens with a movement is, of course, people get enthusiastic and get their adrenaline going and the movement really didn't end, a lot of times in primaries, they are over relatively quickly and the party that loses or the candidate that loses has quite a bit of time to adjust their supporters do too, in this one it was over about a month and a half ago, bernie sanders took his time to come around to the conclusion that he has lost and hillary has won and when he endorsed her it was. the full throated endorsement you hope so, i hope to see it tonight. >> we saw that from him in the last couple of taiz. >> rose: but that doesn't speak for the supervisor povertiers. >> it does not, i saw some of them marching in the streets today but they will, you know, donald trump is going to be the best antidote to that because if

they are going to vote and i presume most of them will, almost all of them will, they won't vote for donald trump especially after bernie sanders gives them 100 reasons not to. >> it does to me and we talked about this charlie, it does point to the fact that the two dominant parties no longer can control events like they used to be able to. we are in a total disruptive ople are not hinged anymore to the political parties in the same way they were before and the leadership of the parties can't manage it like they have like a college campus they can't manage it anymore and you saw that unfold with the republicans, where the elites opposed him and i think you see that with bernie sanders. we are headed toward a time where the two political parties won't be able to keep doing what they are doing. >> rose: so this is watching significant in this election, think you are watchingical something significant that occurred this america in the last 150 years, i think we are headed toward it and headed towards a growth of something new, new parties, something new, a changed democratic party, a changed republican party but we are headed there. >> multiple parties? >> multiple parties.

>> it is possible that there could be. i mean if you think about the common strain of the donald trump and bernie sanders campaign they are basically campaigns of aggrieve. and an argument to middle class voters .. you are not getting what you deserve, you are working hard and making less, they have different villains, person would say it is trade deals and wall street, but you can say it is trade deals. >> trump says it is trade deals and immigration, you could conceivably have a working class party, not a socialist party but a time to get what we deserve kind of thing. >> rose: how much of this election will depend on how large the group of economic people who basically have income insecurity, they feel like the best in life has passed them by and are frustrated, angry? how large is that group and is that group, if it is large, can they determine the election? >> well, i think what you are seeing is the real fundamental pivot in this election which has not happened before. this is

not a geographic election. this is a demographic election, and the pivot is on working class -- without college and working chas with college. she is over performing among white sox, with college degrees, she is underperforming, he is over performing with white sox without college degrees and i think that is the kind of but collar versus white-collar, the whole dynamic, the question is, are there enough voters in that group to do submit donald trump could win in election primarily because he turns out to be the change they wanted even though it is slightly risky. >> rose: how does she get past not being the change agent, when she says she is a change agent and what she wants to do is change, but she has a history and she is viewed as part of the establishment? >> well, i think. >> rose: and she is. >> that's one of the difficulties of this convention they are going to, have they have to figure in my mind, figure out -- they are going to have a whole bunch of political leaders here and a whole bunch of political leaders that are the past and the status quo so bill clinton, barack obama, whoever else that is, it is a lineup of people that is very good, but basically say, oh, it

is -- you are going go backwards or stick with the status quo and she has to be careful about that. >> rose: how crucial is her speech on thursday night? >> it will define who she is and is a good person and she knows that she is not popular and not trusted, how does she make the case? >> well, i think the way you make the case, a there are a lot of people out there who have reservations about secretary clinton for a lot of different reasons, one of which is, of course she has been around for a very long time and she is asthma knew suggests, you know, the establishment. on the other hand, and may even have a sense of the position she has held and some of the accomplishments that she is responsible for. but i don't think that they have a very good sense of hillary clinton the person. and one of the things that, you know, that you see in political campaigns all the time is white candidates start with a bio is a sense of shared values and a shared understands and shared vision of the world and i am not sure people have that with her. >> rose: isn't that amazing, one of the best known people in the world, people don't feel like they really know her or

parts of her that her friends know are not known. >> well, it is interesting to me is that you have two of -- two of the. >> rose: best known, not popular. >> voters really don't know what never like in private, in, what they are like in private, they are mammoth figures but who are they really, it is what ivanka tried to speak to, think think is a bit of hillary in this in the course, one of the things in the election, which is the importance of this convention there are a group that don't like either one of these folks, who don't trust either one of these folks but looking for a signal of what should they do? they want change but worry about donald trump and looking for little smalls to do it signals to do it. >> i think the fact michael bloomberg will endorse her, while not a huge thing is a signal to folks, maybe that's the direction i should go and i think there are going to be some republicans in the next two or three weeks that are going to come out and basically endorse her and say i can't vote for donald trump. >> rose: security republicans have already done that. >> i this state an essential

part of her strategy because donald trump comes to the table with a very, very thin sort of issue portfolio, nobody really knows where he stands on an issue and frankly where he stands today may not be where he stands tomorrow because it is all part of the deal, right. what they kind of understand about donald trump is he is strength and he is change a, and what hillary clinton needs to do is make the strength risky and she needs to make the change the very risky. and by having guys like reince priebus and other establishment republicans come out and say i am a republican but this is a bridge too far for me, i can't do it. she helps to make that a change that donald trump is pushing. >> but she has two chance, you both talked about, one she has to make him, you don't want to trust him as president, on the one hand, on the other hand, she has to convince them you should like me, you know. >> because all those things they say if you knew me, if you look at my record, you might not believe me, but they constantly do things that reinforce. that issue. like the e-mail scandal, not the most recent but the one she

endured with the -- investigation. >> i think she continues to have a problem that every time something happens, the voters think she is playing hide the ball, right? and they automatically go in can i really trust her? can i really trust her and all of these explanations that happen even in the last 24 hours, the things she says it is like they don't feel like he is transparent on what is going on. they always feel like something is going on they are unaware of. >> rose: two questions that are not the same but are really one. tom -- tim kaine, i am sorry, he adds to the ticket, he makes a difference? he it has been a great rollout? >> i think it is a really good pick for a couple of reasons. i mean, take out the political dire need in this country ofre a debate about faith. and these are two vice presidential nominees who are both deeply -- >> rose: you are at the front of the parade. >> who are deeply faith people, one from the evangelical cast, the other one from a social justice catholic having a discussion about faith in

entirely different ways, one about openness and tolerance, the other about rules and judgment and i think too often in this country, faith in one has been coopted and i think tim kaine can make that argument very well. >> rose: that will be the vice presidential deact, programs? >> well, if we are allowed to get into it, i think the vice presidential debate could be the most substantive debate we have seen in a long time. >> i think it is time for a conversation in this country, about faith and how it fits and what is the role of faith in public life, and in the lives of elected officials. and i think that, you know, it could be a very interesting conversation. i am not sure the campaign is necessarily, i don't know if the campaign necessarily wants the deendz do go there but it could be an enlightening and a interesting conversation than the one we are headed for. >> rose: he has become very likable and responded to the rollout of him like him. >> yes. >> and also it is her reaction to it, watch her body motions. she is actually looks more comfortable in that piece and in

the moment and joyful than she is when she appears with her husband. i mean she has that sort of calmness to her i haven't seen unless, unless he showed upton stage. >> rose: i assume that was the critical thing for her. she felt comfortable with him and step into the job, if necessary. >> and if you talked to people who have been through these decisions before and been around what matthew has, the most important thing you want from a vice presidential nominee is comfort, if you are a young, think back to 1992, you are a young relatively inexperienced governor from arkansas, never really spent any time in washington, why would you double down on inexperience by going with al gore and the answer is because he felt akin ship and comfort with al gore that hillary seems to feel with tim kaine, you see it and i think many people did on the stage that day, she was delighted, it was like, you know, the person that you want to see all the time. and i think she is becoming a better candidate, i think tim kaine is going to make her more comfortable on the stump. >> and every vice presidential pick, to pick on what steve said, every vice presidential pick is a mistake when they go against that and they go for the

sarah palin pick, it was not someone john mccain was interlocked with. >> hardly knew him. >> it didn't fit right and it showed. >> mccain wanted lieberman and if mccain went with lieberman it would have been a different race and a far better candidate. >> >> rose: but the party told him you can't -- >> he should have fought the party. joe biden has been a very good choice for barack obama. >> yes. it is the same thing. i think it is exactly the same thing. >> they were comfortable together, they were friends in barack obama a foreign policy -- by service on the foreign affairs committee. >> but at the end of the day it was based on comfort and trust and it made obama a better candidate too. >> rose: what happens between the end of the conventions, the end of july, and labor day when the campaign really kicks off? what can happen in that period? >> well, a lot of people assume it is just going to go dark and everything would go behind, i think it is not, i think it is going to be an intense period

and the biggest vetting period of the whole campaign, on labor day you get on the role and debates and all, haug is a vetting period and still a vetting that needs to be done on the republican side of donald trump and mike pence and it has not been fully done and some vetting on tim kaine and hillary clinton in the course of that, to me, august is going to be nasty but a serious vetting of these candidates. >> here is what i think? interesting about this cycle, different than any other cycle we witness sod far, one of the reasons that it usually goes dead or dormant between the conventions in september is because that is when the campaigns reload the money, it used to be they would get their federal matching funds and didn't want to spend anything until labor day, donald trump is a $50 million campaign run on twitter every single day based on whatever he sort of sees and he is in the going to stop that or slow that down. >> rose: but he is not -- but does he need the party? does he need a lot more party in individual sites get tout vote all the things a party does for you? >> he does, he needs it desperately and there is no

evidence the party is raising the money they raised before for mitt romney or they will need to raise to be competitive, it will be interesting to see the effect of these polls, because, you know,, a national poll is sort of a leading indicator, it floats up, if he holds that i think you will see him raise some money, if he doesn't he falls back down, i don't think you will see him raise much. >> i don't think we have seen the goldilocks campaign in this, i think hillary clinton's campaign is way too bureaucratic and way too big, campaign in 2004 and 2000 with about 220 people and fine, it was a perfect amount of people. donald trump i think right now is at 80, he needs a bigger effort than that and more organized effort than that, more professionalled effort than that but not 800 paid statue paid staff, with sean huge tapinger ship and the other is a so mali pirate with a few guys on the boats and both are problematic. >> rose: great to have you, thank you, matthew. >> thank you. >> rose: we will be right back. stay with us.

joining me now, sr. amy, a political reporter for "the new york times", also ej difficult on, a columnist for the "washington post" and pleased to have both of them, first day of the democratic convention. coming off the republican convention, we thought this was going to be boring and all possess a sudden we have a scandal of a kind. >> are you surprised that this happened so quick and are you surprised still she gets to speak at the convention? you know, i am surprised, because -- >> people worried about party unity, you had the governor of the state where john kay simple wasn't attending, all of these high profile republican operatives and elected officials were not attending so you already had a vision of, you know, disunity. >> rose: right. >> but here, hillary clinton has barack obama, michelle obama, the joe biden, bernie sanders, elizabeth warren, every democratic operative you could line up. >> with enthusiasm. >> yet the disquiet here, the unrest among the bernie sanders

supporters is amazing. >> rose: who is it expressed? >> it is expressed on the street, downstairs, some people a real push against establishment politics they see right now which they see hillary clinton taj embodiment. >> and some in the choice of tim kaine. >> right. >> rose: because of trade votes and things like that. >> certainly hillary clinton's doesn't do anything to appease the left, but angered, wall street regulation and tried reignited this distrust of her. >> rose: how do you get to speak at the convention when there are e-mails she favored hillary clinton and angering the supporters of bernie sanders? >> i think, it is a rick risky move and see how it plays in the hall. >> rose: what does this convention need to do for hillary clinton? >> well, i think that at some point the sanders people on the floor have to show their support, they support clinton, one of the most striking things here, as a colleague of mine at "washington post", bernie

started a revolution and can't control it. >> rose: yes. >> bernie has been begging his delegates to united around clinton and cheer clinton, saying stopping trump should be the priority of his party but a lot of the people who were slated as bernie delegates, who chose to be bernie delegates are not party regulars, to say the least. >> some of them are on the left and don't trust clinton and so they have got to get that under some kind of control. i think there are a couple of other things she needs to do and they are very aware of fit, the second night of the convention is going to be a lot of testimonials to clinton. she needs to get her favorable rating up. it has at times been as high as the mid sixties. you will never, you will never get it back there but i think it does suggest there is some give and i think the party has to put up a credible politics of hope against trump's politics of fear, and the key is, credible, people who are hurting have to believe that what she wants to do will do something for them. >> but not only should she be

able to speak to their pain but do something about that pain? >> right. and i think her argument is going to be, trump appeals to you, he says the country is in worse condition that it in fact is but doesn't have anything on his list that will do anything for you. you know, this is almost a policy free campaign, particularly you saw that at the republican convention, other than building walls, that was main infrastructure project, even though trump mentioned infrastructure, and so i think she has got to find a way to get policy back in, but not in a wonky way, in a practical way sayingly do things for you this other guy won't and he is dangerous and i think that is the theme that is going to underlie this all the way through, that trump is actually a threat to democracy, and i think it is going to get that deep before we are out of here. >> right. i mean she certainly has -- >> rose: a threat to democracy and in fact a little bit indicated by the fact he said i will take care of you, i can fix the problem, not that we can fix

them together, not a democratic society can fix them, i can fix them. >> they are going to payment him as a national -- he embrace it is i and they need to make people mistrust that, that seems so far to work better with college educated voters, where trump is running way behind, where republicans are, the, than working voters, white working class voters who are angry and responding to some of this. >> right. and i think she has the policy solutions. that has never been her problem. it is empathy and the speaking to that anger that she had trouble. >> rose: can a seven speech change that? >> i don't think a speech can change it. i think going to conventions, nobody trusted bill clinton in 1992 and then they had the man from hope video, they introduced him to the country and voters, you know, felt like he felt their pain, hillary clinton is already so well-known, tomorrow night when they they unroll a video about her life and explain her motivations to viewers i think it is met with just sort

of an inherent cynicism by people think they already know her and know her motives, that's a big hurdle to get an. >> i think the person i think is her model is george h.w. bush. >> yes. >> and if we think back to the 1988 republican convention, you know, there were a coverage about the win factor, he was running way behind. >> if he was down at one point by 17 points, an he used a really finally crafted convention speech, peg guy noonan was the main author. >> peggy noonan. >> read, read my lips which came back to haunt him. right. >> and he like .. hillary clinton was succeeding the year of a republican president and that's the other thing hillary clinton has going for her, that we cannot underestimate, we can't underestimates its power and president obama, president obama ass approval rating went back up in the fifties. he still has a lot of affection

with significant parts of the democratic party are and the electorate, his speech here is going to be very important to her. >> in other words, he could make the case for her, perhaps the case she couldn't even make? >> right. >> rose: the same way bill clinton did it for him four years ago. >> that's precisely right, clinton gave the best speech i think at the last convention, he gave her a better speech on obama's half that obama did or could and i think at this convention, because she had opposed him, they were adder have says an and then she went o work with, he has a lot to play with in the speech that can make his witness sound credible, not to republicans, obviously, but to a lot of other people. >> and to the disgruntled wing of the party right now that we are hearing in th in the hall. >> rose: he can speak to that wing? >> i think so. i think some of that wing is against both cain and her. i think some of that wing is to the left of both -- >> rose: elizabeth warren -- >> yes. >> rose: and how far will she go to do that? >> i think warren emerged in an interesting way it is a ultimate

trump share, she really knows how to get under his skin, she obviously is getting under his skin and she does it, talk about economic populism tonight she is speaking and just going to absolutely unload on him. you, you know, what giuliani did to hillary clinton, warren will do on the economic front, the wealthy will take advantage of everyone else, you know, at the expense of everyone else. >> rose: i am sure she wouldn't do this, but i had this thing when you talk about elizabeth warren, suppose hillary clinton is elected and suppose she chose elizabeth warren as secretary of the treasury, wall street would be in total fear. >> i think they would move to the cayman islands a lot of them. but she is absolutely right about elizabeth warren, i mean she can reach everybody in this room, the clinton delegates, including moderate democrats, who might not have been big warren fans have loved the way she has gotten under trump's skin, the fact that he has to refer to her all the time as pocahontas. >> rose: yes. >> i don't think that makes him look particularly good, and then

the bernie-ites know she is on their side on economic issues. >> right. >> so again obama is a validator in one way, elizabeth warren is a validator in another. >> rose: and hillary clinton has quoting her like crazy and even putting her on the vice presidential list. >> which i don't think a was that serious but they certainly wanted the world to think it was serious. >> rose: we. >> including the warren people, i think warren was kind of happy with the way it turned out. >> rose: exactly right because it puts her on the list for national office. >> and they actually look gooding to, i mean there are a couple of times -- >> i was surprised with the chemistry they had when i saw them together in ohio. >> rose: and how about the chemistry with tim kaine? >> i have seen hillary around a lot of people and seeps genuinely happy around tim kaine, i was thinking about in terms of demographic and battle frowned but i realize it is about likability, it is hard not to like tim kaine, even his, you know, political opponents have said that a. >> rose: right over and when she was on stage with him, she seemed relaxed and happy and she was very likable, switching easily between english and spanish and i thought, okay, this ticket, if anything it

could boost her likability a little. >> yes, i think that is right, it was amazing to watch them together. and tim kaine is somebody who a lot of republicans in the congress like jeff flake and i am going to miss remember, i am loosely paraphrasing i know i am supposed to say bad things about tim kaine but i can't. this guy who has a lot of friendships and he gave, perhaps the best rollingout i think i have ever seen of a vice presidential candidate, which contrasted so sharply with the pence rollout. >> rose: respectful and enthusiastic and -- >> yes. and the whole thing about his biography and his republican father-in-law, who duces gated the schools in, duces gated the schools, de-sees gated. >> he didn't make rules he didn't follow himself and of course tim kaine is married to ann hotel ten who went to the schools. >> the ultimate buying graphical

detail his son was in the audience and today he is deployed in nato forces, he is a marine and going to help nato forces in europe so when tim kaine told the crowd that it was another dig at donald trump's to separate us from our allies in europe. >> mike pence is also a marine. >> rose: yes. >> our friend mark shields once wrote a piece that shows sho showed how few public officials had kids in the active duty military and to make one nonpartisan point tonight i think it is kind of cool that both vice presidential candidates once one in each wing has somebody in the -- >> rose: where do you think the candidates stand on national security issues. >> one has been wants to project a sense of strength and tell you what he would do, hillary clinton has the kind of experience that inspires even republicans on the national security level, like brent scowcroft and others dick memory

standing and others. >> they have always viewed her as too much of a hawk. she advocated. >> which she is. >> she advocated for a no-fly zone in syria, obviously the vote in the iraq intervention. >> rose: more support for rebels in -- >> i think she sort of woos republicans, it exacerbates the discomfort the left feels with her, not just on domestic issues but foreign policy. >> i think there is some of that, but i think that the long-term effect of this e-mail scandal could be very interesting. you noticed. >> rose: the e-mail scandal she experienced not -- >> oh, yes, exactly. >> rose: the dnc -- >> talk about a bad luck for hillary clinton, exactly, the e-mail she didn't need. but the wikileaks. >> rose: right. >> where the clawn people went immediately too the issue of did the russians leak this? >> rose: right. >> and i think that opens up the issue of paul manafort's relationship with the russians and with the pro putin ukrainians, i think this opens

up exploration of donald trump's own relationship with putin. it is a very weird inversion of the cold war that the old soafient union the democrats were too soft and now you have trump and a lot of the european far right who are very close to putin. so i think that we are not done with exploring this issue. in is only the beginning. >> he was a supporter of covirtue, who fled ukraine to go to russia. >> has been pushing the narrative trump is cozy with putin from the beginning. >> one of the hillary clinton lines is it would be like christmas for russia if donald trump wins the presidency. >> so he is sympathetic to the enemies of america. >> rose: and nato and the rest of it in terms of who could have nuclear weapons and it wouldn't bother him that kind of thing which is the scare factor -- >> and hillary has an interesting line out where the tag line was something like a

steady hand in an unsteady time and i think you will see this very interesting -- it is an argument about feelings, not an argument about ideas, do you want somebody who sounds tough and strong or brash or whatever, trump is, versus somebody who is steady and in control? she can win that argument with trump. but i think he is counting on this sort of appearance of strength, but i think steadiness gets a lot of votes. >> but to which trump says you have to make steady decisions you authorized force in iraq and you supported intervention in libya. >> and supported iraq, too he just doesn't admit it but -- >> yes. make those points of her foreign policy back to this bad judgment. >> rose: interesting you mention of bush 41, barack obama was on "face the nation" on sunday and said one of the presidents he most admired was bush 41, admired many things about him and i once heard him say his foreign policy was a lot like bush 41. >> utterly right. i mean, brent

scowcroft was a guide to barack obama, this -- barack obama was much more of a realist than a moralist, in foreign policy. and when you looked at, you know, obama's succeeding george w. bush, i think obama was much closer to george w's father than george w was in his approach, that's worth remembering that george w department invade iraq after kuwait. so i think the feeling, it is not just a personal feeling, i think it is a real intellectual connection that obama and the people around obama have to the h w. bush foreign policy -- >> rose: is it possible that this is an election that none of us quite understand and because of social media and because of donald trump being a celeb and a television reality star those are dynamics that we can't quite figure out and may very well be, you know, a determinative factor iin this elections? >> i think a lot of people

including hillary clinton didn't understand, the age never the electorate, the feeling of income inequality and we are looking at data and seeing jobs are better, the economy picked up and i think just -- i think we have learned a lot about the feeling that only hose at the top can succeed, our recent poll showed 70 participant believe only the people at the top can succeed. that's a basic shift in the american psyche and see it rise in the rise of donald trump and the bernie, anger that the bernie sandersers supporters felt. >> how many people outside of the big and prosperous metropolitan areas were really upset about 30 years of .. declining incomes. >> rose: and had a right to be? >> yes. exactly. >> rose: because of a range of factors, including a sense that their stake was diminished but also including a sense that technology and globalization had changed their future. >> correct. and they weren't crazy about this. although it was funny and i think you will hear it here that

at trump's convention, at the republican convention, they were talking about declining income since 1999 or 2000, there was a guy who was president in those years and his name was bill clinton. >> right. >> and i do think we are going to hear about the clinton -- >> probably from bill clinton. >> yes. i bet we will. >> rose: and talking about clinton for prosperity and barack obama will talk about obama prosperity and how he saved the economy. >> or maybe the other way around. but i think we do understand a couple of things. one is, that donald trump is very weak among women. my gut about this election is still that women won't allow donald trump to become president, and latinos won't allow donald trump to be president. that he can -- there are only so many white votes he can win, basically. when you push away the entire minority community, the way h he has, you are settig yourself up for a very hard rise and then when you alienate a lot of women on top of that it becomes really tough for him. >> rose: indeed it does.

the interesting thing about her is that -- my impression and either of you a week ago and we had a 0 long conversation about about the historical rolling she is playing a and i think she has embraced it more and talked about it more than she has over the last year or so, a real sense she has a chance to make history and this means something to women. she has not made that point as much during the campaign. as i think she is prepared to make in a general election. >> at the same time there have been debates within her operation over how much she should emphasize. >> rose: what is the -- what is the debate? >> i think. >> ultimately because vote for me because i am a qualified person and not just because i am a woman. >> absolutely and one thing that surprised the campaign is young women, millennial women have no reflective gender allegiance and the whole first woman president thing was turning them off. that wasn't resonating. it really doesn't resonate with men, who i agree that she, you know, is not relying on for a victory da. >> rose: the historic narrative won't work for her as barack obama. >> barack obama did not accept the nomination as the first

black president. there was not a lot of a breaking of civil right barrier, so the debate is inherent she is a woman on the stage, how much should we show the suffragettes it could turn off some voters. >> >> rose: my point is, i sense her internally feeling strongly about it. >> absolutely, she does and she talks about, we talk about authenticity, one of the real authentic aspects of her is her mother's inspiration on her and how she wishes her mother could see this. and i think she does really feel a sense of history. i felt that when i interviewed her right after a she got the delegates needed to catch the nomination last month. and i also think that, i agree with you, there are limits on the women thing, i still think it works with a significant number of voters, women over 50. >> absolutely. >> a certain number of younger women that i have talked to who still think it would be cool to have a woman president. and the night she won the whole thing, she clinched it, she was very powerful in talking about that she wore white the way the

sufficient practice jets wore white. i still think it is not going to elect her or defeat her. but i think it can be an asset and i think you are also going to hear arguments that some of these attacks on her are in one way or another sexist attacks. you know, do you talk about trump shouting 0 no, you talk about hillary shouting a and to what extent is that -- >> the chance of lock her up, is venom you hadn't seen against other candidates, there are there were gender underpin punnings. >> >> rose: thank you. >> thank you. >> rose:. >> great to be with you. >> rose: thank you for joining us. see you next time. >> for more about this program and early episodes, visit us online at pbs.org. and charlierose.com.

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