. >> rose: funding for charlie rose is provided by the following: and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: welcome to the program. we're at the democratic national convention in philadelphia, pennsylvania. monday night, day one was elizabeth warren, michelle obama and bernie sanders. tuesday night, day two was president clinton. tonight, day three, michael bloomberg, joe biden, tim kaine

and president obama. >> this election is not a choice between a democrat and a republican. it is a choice between who is better to lead our country right now. >> better for our economy, better for our security, better for our freedom, and better for our future. there is no doubt in my mind that hillary clinton is the right choice this november. (cheers and applause) >> so tonight as an independent, i am asking you to join with me, not out of party loyalty, but out of love of country. and together, and together let's select a sain, competent person with international experience-- (applause)

a unifier who is mature enough to reach out for advice, to build consensus, and to recognize that we all have something to contribute. so let's elect hillary clinton as the next president of the greatest country in the world, the united states of america. thank you. >> we simply cannot let that happen as americans. period. folks, i have no win ever-- no one ever doubts me what i say, but sometimes i say all that i mean, but folks let me tell you what i literally tell every world leader i met with, and i have met them all, it's never, never, never been a good bet to

bet against america. we have the finest fighting force in the world. not only-- u sa,u sa,u sa,u sa,u sa. >> not only do we have the largest economy in the world, we have the strongest economy in the world. we have the most productive workers in the world. and given a share shot, given a fair chance, americans have never, ever, ever, ever let their country down. never! never! ordinary people like us who do extraordinary things. we have this candidates before attempted to get elected by

appealing to our fears. but they have never succeeded because we do not scare easily. we never bow. we never bend. we never break when confronted with crisis. no, we endure. we overcome and we always, always, always move forward. that's why, that's why i can say with absolute conviction, i am more optimistic about our chances today than when i was elected as a 29 year old kid to the senate. the 21s century is going to be the american century. because, because we lead not only by the example of our power but by the power of our example. that is the history of the journey of america. and god willing, god willing hillary clinton will write the next chapter in that journey.

we are america! second to none and we own the finish line! don't forget it! god bless you all and may god protect our troops! come on! we're america! >> hillary clinton and i-- and we share this basic belief, it's simple. do all the good you can and serve one another. pretty simple. pretty simple. that's what i am about. that's what you're about. that's what bernie sanders is about. that's what joe and jill biden are about. that's what barack and michelle obama are about and that's what hillary clinton is about. now-- yes, we can.

yes, we can. yes, we can. sheses' ready because of her faith. she's ready because of her heart. she's ready because of her experience, and she's ready because she knows that in america we are stronger when we are oght. my fellow democrats, this week we start the next chapter in our great and proud story. thomas declared all men were equal and abigail remembered the women. woodrow brokered the peace, and eleanor broke down the barriers. jack told us what to ask and lyndon answered the call. martin had a dream and delores

said-- and harvey gave his life. bill, bill built a bridge into the 21s century and-- . >> rose: we continue this evening with our coverage of the democratic national convention in philadelphia. former president bill clinton spoke in support of his wife's candidacy on tuesday. headliners today were president obama, vice president joes biden and former new york city mayor mike bloomberg. republican presidential candidate donald trump created a new controversy earlier today, urging russia to hack into hillary clinton's missing e-mails. the comment sparked outrage from the clinton campaign which accused him of inciting russian espionage. joining me is jim messin blanca he servedz on president obama campaign manager in 2012 and was a central member of the team in 2008 as well. i'm pleased to have him here. welcome. >> thank you very much, great to be here tz i particularly left out tim kaine so we could start with him. >> right. >> rose: tell me about him and his election because we heard from him earlier. we're taping this at 8:00 before

he speaks. but what is he going to say? what is his mission? tell me first about him and the selection, and then about what he is going to say to this-- these democrats in this hall. >> well, as you know, kaine was a finalist in 08ee for obama and i spent a bunch of time with him, we appointed him dnc chair. he has been a leader at every level, state level, federal level, now united states senator. but that saul politics. the great thing i love about tim kaine is he is the singest-- single best human being i know. >> rose: the single best sph. >> he is a better human being than anyone except for my wife. >> rose: good. >> is he one of those guys that you leave your kids-- . >> rose: a better human being than bill clinton, than barack obama then hillary clinton. >> look, i love all those people. but i will tell you when tim kaine got named, i teared up. because the vice presidential pick shouldn't be about politics. it should be about the person who can step in in a moment and become president of the united states. and if that was tim kaine i

would feel great about the future of our country. >> rose: why do you say that? >> i dealt with tim kaine every single day when i was in the white house. and every time he has bonded his word, he asks about your family, your life. he has deep philosophical questions that most politicians don't. he's a former missionary, he speaks spanish. he has more depth to him than most players in the national political stage. and he's one of those guys who you just, every time you are with him, you are proud to be his friend. >> rose: was he the frontrunner from the beginning. >> i think so. i think he was the wise quhois for a variety of reasons. obviously virginia is one of the two most swing states in the country. he is one of those guys everyone, right, left, center likes him. he has done deals with republicans at every level, even moderates. i think he is a really wise pick for her. >> rose: talk about this campaign in 2012, in terms of technique, in terms of what you will be employing, your candidate first, or two candidates. but how campaigns are run in

2016 differ from how they were run in 2012 which was different than 2008. >> you have seen an explosion of how people are talking to voters now. over 80% of swim votedders only get their information from social media. the average american swing voter thinks about politics four minutes a week. and when you think about how they make those decisions on what they're going to vote, what their friends and family say to them on social media, on a barbecue in the backyard, next door neighbor, that is incredibly important. and that's happening-- . >> rose: they listen people they know and trust. >> exactly. because you get over 2 million images a week beamed at you. all this stuff coming at you. and the way you process that is through the internet, through social media, through what your friends and family say. and that's why you see this light-years of evolution in the war between the two parties on social media. but the big advantage for democrats is we have better data than they do. >> rose: what does that mean, better data.

you have gone out and done what. >> built really sophisticated models of the elector wrath that tell you three of four things. are you going to vote for hillary clinton. are you an actual swing voter. people say they are swing voters but only 7 to 10% are available to both sides. >> rose: 7 to 10%. >> yep reasons right there in the middle swinging from one side to the other and determine the election. >> and we are now the most partisan country in the world. as you know i just elected david cameron to the u.k., we won an election in spain. in those races a third of voters swing back and forth. in the u.s. it's a now less than 10%. so that trying to figure out who those people are and turning your own vote out is a ver big deal. and it's why i think in the battleground states trump will have a real problem. if you look at the elections the republicans have won for the presidency in the past six cycles, they have had huge field operations. in ohio with karl rove and ken melman, trump has nothing on the ground. and that's a real problem.

>> rose: let's talk about swing states. clearly florida, clearly ohio, clearly pennsylvania. >> i don't think so. >> rose: no longer. >> i don't think so. pennsylvania we've now won six consecutive elections. we didn't spend a time there in 2012, obama. and we won by four and a half points. i think we'll have to spend some time here and i think it's great to have the convention here. she is using this as an organizing opportunity. i was out walking around and got asked to register to vote 17 times during my lunch walk, which i think is perfect field and i'm perfect of robbie mook for running a real field operation. >> rose: yeah. robbie mook was here, he is a chairman of what happens in terms of the operational aspects of the campaign. >> that's right. >> rose: that is his responsibility is, to deliver the vote on election day. >> that's right. >> rose: so swing states, florida, ohio, north carolina? >> i think so. we lost north carolina by 1.3% in 12, we won it by 2% in 08y.

demographically moving towards the democrats. interesting if you look at colorado, north carolina and virginia, those are states democrats had carried for 30 years until barack obama and now they are probably the three closest states in america. >> rose: virginia, tim kaine will play a role. >> absolutely. a big role. less so, we did a bunch of studies when they were picking paul ryan in 2012. the vp gives but 1% in their home state. we won in-- . >> rose: unless it's lyndon johnson. >> or sarah palin, exactly right. and not a big deal at the national ticket. but it's about energy. it's about people looking at the ticket saying can these people lead. and that's why i think kaine was such a brilliant choice. >> rose: what other state is a swing state. >> nevada. >> rose: nevada. >> we talked about colorado. republicans are going to try very hard, this mid western strategy in wisconsin, in iowa. i think iowa is a swing state in this election. we'll need to watch it very closely. wisconsin has gone democratic

six consecutive democratic elections but never by more than five points. so trump's theory is the mid western theory. you see him talking about trade in a way that no republican has done in a long time. >> rose: he thinks that will appeal in the rust belt. >> you got it. the problem with that theory is he's got to win states they haven't won in 25 years. and that is a really hard lesson to learn. and states, i was him i would go fight in virginia, colorado and other places but he staked this campaign in the midwest and i think it's a very narrow map for him and that is very hard. because there is no backup plan. >> rose: what does your polling say about how latinos view him, as the idea of being called immigrants, being classified and not all of them but using terms like racist and killers, all that he did at the beginning and has continued to do in terms of building a wall to keep people out. is that resonating with the latino community so that they are looking mainly at that

rather than economic issues that might concern them? >> well, if you look at just dem graphically the latino vote is probably the most important vote of the entire electorate for this reason. after the amazingly well run obama campaign both times, we still didn't get-- . >> rose: taking any credit. >> no, all him. we still didn't get a reasonable turnout of lats compared to african-americans, asians and whites. i think she request do better. george bush goes 44 and 46% of latino vote, four years later romney got 27%. donald trump is now in the mid teens. he has got to get that number of 40% of latino voters in florida, in november nevada, in colorado. >> rose: to do what bush did. >> to have a shot of winning, so he is nowhere even near that. that is why the pick of pence, governor of indiana is so weird. it didn't move anything with women. it didn't move with latino

voters. i would have picked marco rubio. >> rose: because he would have influenced florida. >> absolutely, latino, young visionary. i don't think there is a chance in hell marco rubio would take that job. but my backup choice would have been suzanna martinez the governor of new mexico who he insawlted-- insulted. so she said she wouldn't be considered. but i didn't understand, this is the third election in a row where republicans have chosen as vice presidential candidate a right wing evangelical conservative because they keep getting told, you have got base problems, you have got base problems. the problem with that, charlie, is this is a fight about the 10% of swing voters out there. and in these states, barack obama won florida by .9%, right. we lost north carolina by one point. he's coalitions really matter in these states. i don't think trump moves that ball forward at all. >> rose: you know barack obama, he really wants to get into this fight. >> he really does. he think this is an incredibly

important moment for the country. and after all the look, i was in the white house, as you know on day one with him, walked into the worst economy in 50 years, walked into all these challenges. >> and now we're to a place where we just can't turn it over to the recklessness of donald trump. i think you're going to see a-- . >> rose: what does your polling on trump show you. >> a couple things. one that the electorate wants to know more about both candidates. >> rose: they are both unpopular at this point. >> right now you have the two most unpopular nominees of their parties in the history. >> rose: in the history. >> in the history. >> rose: of american politics, the two most unpopular nominees. >> yup. but that's about america. we are a partisan country. we do, we are split right down the middle. that's not surprising. what is i think more surprising is you didn't hear donald trump address those swing voters. cuz you know every ten days or two weeks when a ran president obama's campaign, bill clinton would call me at 2:00 in the morning and would say the wisest things. he would say jim, all

presidential elections are always about the future. they are referendum on the future. if you win that referendum you will win this election. and both candidates have got to explain their vision to where they want to take the country. >> rose: so last night bill clinton talked about change at every moment and he tried to show that she had been a change agent in a private way that many people didn't know. >> right. >> rose: not only to humanize her but also to say that not withstanding the fact that she's been around politics for a long time, she has done things that were on the change agenda. that was his goal. >> absolutely. i think he did really well. he had to humanize her and only a husband can do that, right. when your husband swufn the best or attars of his generation but i think his speech was really effective. let's remember, he is still with swing voters the economic gold standard. they still believe their economy-- . >> rose: gold standard for swing voters. >> absolutely. on the economy. they look at him and think god t was good then. and that guy did it. >> rose: do you think that republicans like paul ryan, like

mitt romney are going to go to bat for donald trump or not? >> i think it's a bigger question for them. i think there is serious risk to them. we have a close united states senate that could go one or two seats, a bunch of house seats, 29 house seats barack obama won in 2012 that republicans hold now. >> rose: but even hillary clinton told me a week ago that she thinks it's possible but unlikely that the democrats can retake the house but can lower the margin. >> but we can take the senate back and i think today we would take the sphat back. and it's that close. and you are not seeing any of those people campaign with donald trump. are you not seeing one of them appear at a rally. when he was in ohio you would have thought rob portman was going to move to mexico. >> rose: there is always this question, he is doing reasonably well. >> he is. >> rose: so despite all of this, nobody is campaigning for him. he's doing it on twitter. he's very competitive in the swing states. >> any republican on the very first day gets what%. any democrat gets 45%.

>> rose: start there. >> and then we fight over the other ten which is exactly what we talked about earlier. so of course i have always said this election is going to be three stages, the first where no one thought cowin, we're past that. the second stage of this race is going to be tied into the fall. and everyone of my democratic friends is going to lose their minds. and the third stage which i really believe, charlie, when you go back to the battleground states in these places where he can't get enough latino votes or women votes, i think hillary clinton is going to beat him substantially in all the battleground states. >> rose: what percentage of the women vote will he get in your judgement? >> women voters, depends on the battleground. which state are you talking about. but i think will have a historical low white woman number of republicans. >> rose: final question, for viewers at home, we're almost at the end of the democratic convention, we will have the campaign continues but then it really kicks off labor day and then you have the debates. >> yup. >> rose: what should viewers

be looking at in terms of big issues, in terms of significant moments in a campaign? i will give you one, the debate, that's easy. >> the debates are really a big moment. as you know in 2012 barack obama lost the first debate, worse than any president ever lost the firs debate. i remember flying to washington the next day and having members of congress say can we still win this election. and i was like we're ahead. what are you talking about. i do think very smart guy who is currently the president of the united states once said to me, presidential politics is an-- or full n the end these voters will get a sense of both of these candidates, who they are as people, who they are as leaders, can they answer the bill clinton question. and if that happens, hillary clinton will win the presidency. >> rose: thank you, jim. >> thanks very much. good to see you. >> rose: back in a moment. we begun with paul gigot, and

james bennett, editor of "the new york times" editorial page, welcome. >> thanks. >> so just take a look for me as you see the democrats, this convention, and how it's going. >> i think it's going all right, i don't think there has been a lot of breakthrough momentses, michelle obama had the strongest speech by far. i thought bill clinton's speech was fascinating to try to rehabilitate his this image of hillary clinton. but it struck me as interesting that they felt they needed to devote that whole speech by this great speech maker to that task as opposed to reaching out to the voters that bill clinton did so well at getting which is the middle class working class white voters in some of the swing states that donald trump is going for. i thought that probably was a lost opportunity. >> rose: but did he accomplish his objective of humanizing her and trying to make the case that she had been about change all her life, which is what the two elements that they worry about, one trust and the other being on

the wrong side of change. >> i can understand why they tried but i think it is a difficult taskment because number one she has been in public life for 25 years. so as far as change goes, i don't know that somebody who has been in public life that long is really, you can make the case that you are the change agent. i don't think she can outbid trump as the change agent. i think their strategy has to be make trump change that is unacceptable. and her as the safe, experienced. >> rose: they have to make it a referendum on donald trump. >> that's right. if it's a referendum on her and the current state of the world and the united states, the country clearly says they don't much like her, don't like trump either but they don't like her and they don't like where things are. >> rose: what i don't understand is barack obama is reasonably popular now. he is over 50%. yet are you saying and polls show this, there is a huge wrong track poll. >> almost two thirds of the country. >> rose: so he's popular but the way the country is going is

not popular. >> and that is a par a docks. i don't know the answer. but one idea that i think is plausible is that as he is out of the frai now, politically because he is not running himself. and also the fact that if you look at what the public thinks of the two candidates,-- they don't like the two candidates. >> rose: in fact, the deputy campaign manager just said that. he said we got the two most unpopular candidates in the history of american politics, as pros peckive nominees of their parties. so you see it, and as you see it, yet bill clinton makes the point, as he was saying, and everybody agrees that michelle obama made one of the great convention speeches. >> i would say that speech was the high point of the convention so far. and i agree with paul's analysis. i feel like bill clinton was in a bit of a box. in some ways he was trying not to play the very restrained performance by bill clinton in

many ways. i think he felt like he couldn't play that traditional role and was trying to a practice a new role we've never seen. a man play before. much less even a former president play trying to figure out how to not steal the spotlight while serving as, you know, the endorser of the character and values of his spouse. >> and i do agree, even the term change maker felt a little strained to me. protesting a little bit too much. all that stuff was so transparently obviously staged. if we are going to be curious to see how it plays. she has a real challenge because obviously to the extent that she is arguing for radical change there is some implicit criticism there of the previous administration for not having accomplished enough. and how she walks that line i think will be really interesting to see. >> rose: what about bernie sanders and elizabeth warren.

>> i mean they very successfully containedi think the sanders insurgency. there was some drama around that on day one which has really already faded pretty substantially. it was interestk. there are so many interesting historical echoes here and so much stuff, the arc of the clinton's experience, i just find so compelling that the fact that jerry brown was up there just now. >> rose: yes. >> and you know, delivering his endorsement of hillary clinton. jerry brown was the bernie sanders in 1992. >> rose: against bill clinton. >> who came to the convention refusing to release his delegates and was denied a speaking spot because of that. >> rose: i'm old enough to remember that. >> i covered that convention. >> i was there too. >> rose: when you look at donald trump's candidacy today, considering all that has said, do you see a pathway for victory for him? >> i do. i do. >> rose: what is it? >> i don't think he's a favorite

even despite the bounce he has received in the polls. >> rose: the editorial page of the budget wawj has not always liked him. >> i think we're equally unthuk about both candidates. and i think we're covering it in that way. >> rose: what is the path to victory. >> i think his path is he has to hold enough of the suburban voters to get the states that romney got. >> rose: but his temperment and tone appeal to suburban voters. >> no, it doesn't. that is a real problem he has. and i think the where you have college educated men and women, he tiply vote republican, you have to get enough of those the way mitt romney did to win. then he can add to the working class white voters who are economicically hurting and he's got to break through in ohio, maybe pennsylvania, maybe wisconsin, probably not wisconsin but iowa, perhaps michigan.

and then get florida, hold north carolina, not going to be easy. but it's a narrow path. but i can see a path. >> rose: can you? >> it is mathematically possible. and i think his whole cam pain we should be humbled. not making any prediction of what could happen. >> that is for sure. >> rose: we're taping this at 8:00. we don't know what obama will say, mike bloomberg or tim kaine. if national security say big issue, does that favor donald trump or the democrats because hillary clinton has some sense of being within the councils of government, a stabilizing figure. although there is libya, which a lot of-- and one of the big critics of libya now is barack obama. but go ahead. >> we heard even last week, clearly over the top kind of criminal indictment that chris christie presented of foreign policy under hillary clinton.

but he painted a very devastating portrait of failure. and mr. trump effectively delivered that message he might be able to turn it against her. but obviously we have this extraordinary spectacle today of donald trump inviting russia to basically into the campaign to undermine hillary clinton. >> rose: can you imagine that? >> well, i-- . >> rose: inviting the russians to hack. >> it was a mistake, clearly. he got jumped on for it and i think the campaign recognizes, they sent out a statement by mike pence saying if the fbi will investigate this, this hacking and if it was the russians you can bet the u.s. government will come down very hard on them. so i think they understood that it was not right. but i think that trump probably felt in his own mind, this is the way he thinks, you know what, because he loves the new type, i will cut in on the democratic story and i'm going to reraise the e-mail point because he knows that doesn't help hillary clinton. >> rose: and he thought that

wrongly because it didn't play well for him. >> it hasn't played well. we'll see if it really matters at all to his supporters and his voters because after all, remember, he did expose those e-mails indexal hacking. >> rose: at the same time, there is no evidence that her server was hacked. >> that's correct. but jim comey says no evidence. but it is likely that and probable that somebody did have access to them. >> rose: did he say likely probable. >> i think that. >> rose: he said it's not bond. >> i don't think he said likely or probable. >> he said it is entirely possible that that was exposed but we have no evidence that it actually did. >> rose: it is amazing. it used to be up to the last cycle the rule that the other candidate would kind of go dark during the opponents convention. >> i think on your point on the question of how foreign policy and national security plays, i

think both candidates are a little-- there are more eventses that break out from here to november, i think that will play into the trump narrative that the world is out of control, growing disorder and isis and terrorism have expanded on their watch. is it calm between now and then, i think that will play more to mrs. clinton. >> well said, i agree. they are both hostage to it. >> rose: but isn't that, do you think, hostage events, terrorist events would play to trump's advantage in a political sense? >> i mean certainly, you know, we're in this interesting kind of mashup where the republicans are the party of darkness right now. and the democrats are basically the party of avoid and optimism. >> you don't want to be there. >> which party. >> well, if things go, continue their terrible attacks and

evidence that the world is falling apart, donald trump is poking himself as he put it in cleveland as the one person who can fix that. and as a law and order candidate. >> that whole theme law and order, law and order, law and order. >> right. the statistics-- . >> rose: remind us of nixon in 6 willy. >> right, the statistics may not bear out that argument. but perceptions may well support it. >> rose: does the notion of the unpredict ability of donald trump, does that play into the kind of commercials that lyndon johnson used, the kind of commercials of 39:00 in the morning phone call that you can't trust his finger on a nuclear button. >> i expect to see something very much like that, echoes of that in some. speeches, maybe this evening but also in, as the campaign unfolds. i think that is going to be one of the core arguments the clinton campaign makes am we'll see to what extent trump plays into that.

most of this convention so far has been repeating trump's statement after trump statement that is outrageous or a lot of people will think is outrage us. but the truth is it hasn't seemed to hurt so far. not that much. it has been human latif over the course of the primary. but it hasn't disqualified him yet which is interesting am but i think they will try to do that in the fall. >> rose: hillary clinton has acknowledged she has issues about truth, issues of popularity and at the same time donald trump has the issues we've been talking about. one of the questions for me is donald trump would like to believe that he is, has tapped into a movement that is not about the republican or the democrats. it's the movement that has to do with the establishment in america. he likes to make comparisons with brexit. my question is, is whatever it is that makes us economic insecurity, discontent about the direction of the country a

feeling that the country has left them behind, as a different country than they expected to be living in, is that large enough core to win the election for trump? or does hillary clinton have an equal possibility of tamping into it. >> i think again that there is a mathematical possibility of winning with that particularly alienated and angry group of voters that feels ignoredr feels its per og tiffs are slipping away. but hillary clinton has a much bigger opportunity probably to expand and i think the choice of tim kaine is evidence that they think they can begin making inroads with even some moderate republicans, or republican women. i think that's where they think, and i would say lightly that donald trump's temperment may well play into their hands. >> rose: go ahead. >> i don't think it's a movement

so much as a mood, a moment. if the country wants change, okay, they don't like the status of the economy. they don't think it's working for them. they don't like the what they see as a growing disorder. the question i think is, if a again erich republican were running, and i think most of the republicans would be ahead now if they had gotten the nomination. i think the question for trump is can he tap into that change and make him moment and make himself acceptable enough. >> he has to be seen to be president. and he hasn't reached that point yet. >> i don't think he has. remember 1980 when ronald reagan was caricatured by a lot of people. and democrats and said he's going to blow up the world. he's crazy. dr. strangelove. >> right. and by the time he gave that debate he reassured everybody that you know what, this guy can handle it. >> the debates were really pivotal for him. >> that's the moment for donald

trump. come, to reassure america that standing next to a woman of this experience, barack obama has saidz earlier is the most qualified person to run for president. >> he's got to reassure enough of those voters. he's got his followers, core followers, the people are persuaded that they want to have an assault on washington. i think to win he has to win enough republicans to get up from 80% to 90, 95% of republicans and that means college educated voters who are worried about him and his temperment. and that's going to be tested across the next three months and especially in the debates. >> rose: thank you, paul. >> it seems unlikely will change his mo though. this has come up again and again that he was going to make some sort of pivot to a different kind of more presidential seeming behavior. we don't see that happening. >> rose: at the same time they say he would never stick to a prompter. he essentially did that in his speech. >> that's true. >> rose: he didn't go way off. >> no predictions from here, charlie.

>> rose: must drive you crazy, the fact that the two primary candidates are against trade. >> it is. it's really disappointing. it is a bad moment i think economicically. a dangerous moment because we have-- we have to gets this economy back moving again, and trade is a vital part of that. so it's concerning to me, it's concerning. i can't tell you the number of c.e.o.st who come through and look at this and say you know what, if we do what they're saying they do, we don't have to make things in the united states any more. they can move just as easily. and so they would lose jobs to protectionism rather than gain them. >> i do think this will be one of most interesting questions to watch with hillary clinton, where she really is on this question. which was so core to clintonism as we understood it under bill clinton. the idea of enabling fear. trade was really core, i think, to his idea of foreign policy and domestic policy,. >> rose: thank you for coming.

>> thanks for having me. >> rose: we'll be right back. stay with us. we continue this evening with congresswoman adam schiff of california, the ranking member of the house intelligence committee. he addressed the convention today. and madeleine albright served as secretary of state under president clinton. she addressed the convention yesterday. i'm pleased to have both of them. let me begin congressman schiff with a letter you sent to the president. and basically you said the recent hack into the servers of the democratic national committee and the subsequent release via wikileaks of a cache of 20,000 internal e-mails demonstrated yet again of the vulnerability of our institutions to cyberintrusion and exploitation t is timing, content and manner of release, the e-mail dissemination was clearly intended to undermine the democratic party and, and the presidential campaign of secretary hillary clinton. and disrupt the democratic party's convention in philadelphia.

i think a lot of people are asking, what is the evidence of that? that it's intended was to disrupt? the campaign of hillary clinton. >> i can't discuss nis of the confidential information but we know publicly about russian capabilities, russian motivations, and russia's interfering in the political affairs of other countries, russia has to be the leading suspect here. >> rose: i just want to clear this up. the two questions, aren't there. one the question is, did they do it. and that seems to be a con sen shus that they did it. but not, there hasn't been completely-- they deny it. but we know they have done these kinds of things as has the chinese government. the second question is, what was their motive and was it to disrupt the political process so hillary clinton would lose the election and donald trump would be elected. >> well, you would have to believe that it was a complete coins dense that they dumped these e-mails right on the eve the democratic convention.

you have to believe that they would have had no understanding of what the consequences of that would be, i don't think those are reasonable assumptions at all. i think you have to expect that the actor responsible was quite deliberate in what they did am and i also think that motivations are so pappably clear in terms of a candidate in donald trump who says he may back away from sanctions against russia over its invasion of a neighbor, someone who is undermining the security guarantees of nato, someone who talks admiringly of putin, the case is pretty clear about the motivation, and the affect was also very clear. >> rose: and allow countries to acquire nuclear weapons as well. >> yes. >> rose: what do you think? >> i think it's outrage us, frankly. >> rose: that there was hacking too the dnc. >> absolutely. and i think it is interference in our electoral system. and generally i think as i said yesterday, trump's behavior is a gift to putin. because while putin wants to do is to disrupt europe and to make more and more problems for nato.

and they're on the same wavelength. i'm just stunned. i think the kind of thing especially the part to do with lifting sanctions and then really making clear that nato shouldn't exist and that the russians should hack the e-mails, is basically, i think, sed i shus. i think it is illegal, it is something that needs to be really examined. i have heard him call the siberian candidate. >> rose: at the same time, i mean it's pretty wide knowledge, of a government's hack. >> well,. >> rose: we have made, president obama has talked about the chinese. >> but we have complained about the chinese. the chinese have done a number of different things but this is directly interfering in our electoral process. and i think even as awful as what happened with the dnc hacks, i think calling upon the russian government to get involved in hacking the former

secretary of state's e-mails is stunning. i mean and frankly, cyberattacks are really a very threatening thing to our security system. >> rose: that is the latest twist, basically. and then you saw vice president nominee try to pull back from that. >> his vice presidential nominee. >> rose: yes. >> well, i don't know when he has authority to speak for trump. and i think it's outrage us. and the fact that it is even being considered when we talk about what it is like for foreigners to interfere in our electoral process, i think this is the most direct kind of interference that i have ever read about. >> rose: do you agree with that? >> absolutely. it really is staggering that you would have a candidate for president, one of the major party nominees inviting an adversarial government-- . >> rose: to engage in cyberespionage. >> on behalf of his political campaign and against his adversary. it would be disqualifying for any other candidate t ought to

be disqualifying for him. >> rose: meaning you are suggesting he should step down as a nominee of the republican part. >> i think it is too late by that, i think he ought to be disqualified by the voters. wait shall he has already affirmatively doing damage to our alliances, is he involving our enemies. he is undermining our counterterrorism fight by saying that we should ban muslims and alienate the muslim community at home and alienate our muslim ally as broad who we need in that fight against isis. so he is doing damage now. and this is i think what you get when you make a reality tv performer your national candidate. and it's an unmitigated disaster. >> the question is whether he even recognizes how serious his actions are. i have just been in europe. i was in warsaw during the nato summit. and then in england. i spent more time trying to explain what trump was talking about, why he was doing it, who was he damaging, was he kidding, did he understand the seriousness of what he was doing. and i think people feel in a

campaign that you are only talking to the american people. he's talking to the world. and he's scaring everybody and making our security situation much, much more dangerous. i think that he is unqualified. and-- . >> rose: not fit to be president. >> not fit to be president. >> rose: all right, secretary of state clinton said to me a week ago, a dangerous man. >> i think is he a dangerous man. and he proves it in a weird way every single day. and when i woke up this morning and i heard about this business of trying to get the russians to help in terms of the sanctions lifting and that's totally fits into putin's campaign as well as trumps. i wonder what it is that they are thinking about doing. and the fact that trump so admires an authoritarian figure like putin and would give him an a in leadership. i have said if trump were in my class i would fail him on decision making. >> rose: do you think putin is prepared to move on the baltic

states. >> i think we don't know. he is playing kind of games there. and part of the thing with the baltic states, especially estonia is a fully e government. and there was an incident several years ago, people were concerned and i think we don't know what putin's motive are. >> rose: and if he did-- if he did what would the obama administration do. >> they are nato members. we are obligated under article five and the question is whether you can actually trace where it came from. but i think that the president has made quite clear. and he did at the nato summit in terms of our only baitions to our member states. >> rose: well, many people have observed that nato is not now prepared to defend those states in terms of its own military prowess at this moment. >> they are deploying troops there. >> rose: increasing the level. >> and i think actually the summit in warsaw was quite remark nbl terms of the cooperation, the decisions to

have bat all ons in all the baltic states and in poland. american troops and have equipment in various areas. so i think that nato is living up to its expectation. >> rose: turkey is a member of nato. >> it is, yes. >> rose: i think that the situation in turkey is also very complicated. but they are a nato member. >> rose: this is national security night. we're taping this at-- so we don't know what the plt say, we don't know what the vice president will say. we don't know what tim kaine will say. but what is the democratic party, what is it they want to say about national security? >> well, i think what we want to say is that we confront some real threats to the united states from terrorist groups like isis and al qaeda, from increasingly blij rate countries

like bashar and a will madman in yong yang. we need a commandser in chief ho has the experience and the judgement and the toughness who understands the consequences of what she says, of what he would say. and the power in that office. and is prepared to walk in and be commander and chief in day one. there is only one person who fits that bill. and that's secretary clinton. i think for the national security needs of our country right now, we have probably the supremely best qualified candidate we possibly could ask for. and i think that's where we try to-- . >> rose: what worries you the most as a ranking minority member of the house intelligence committee,. what worries you the most? >> well wa, worries me the most. >> rose: is it terrorism, north korea, is it an aggressive china? is it russia feeling like

it's-- part of the move. >> in the near term, it's the terrorism threat that concerns me the most. it's the continuing pernicious conduct of isis. it's al-qaeda that we really have as much of a focus on in the public discussion but who very much wants to re-create what they did on 9/11 in the near term, i think we have our greatest risk of home grown radicalism. >> longer term, isis and al-qaeda are trying to get people here to attack us and that's of grave concern. over the longer term i really worried about nations like russia. i worry about kleina's dlij rance in the south china sea and i worry about the new clear aspirations of ron-- and the unpredict able of a regime like kim jung-un. >> rose: and increasing staict to incrementally gain in their capacity to do something. >> absolutely. >> rose: what worries you.

>> all the things that he just stated but i also worry about an accident. we were talking about the south china sea, that there would be some kind of an accident. >> rose: we have seen as provocative. >> and then we have seen an accident in the arctic in something that the russians are doing or the baltics. i think part of the reason to have somebody with a steady hand and experience is to be able to assess whether something is deliberate or an accident and the thing that worries me is that you have somebody running in the republican party that has not a clue how the decision making process works or how to deconflict in a crisis. and in fact, who has s trigger happy. so i think that is a problem. and then i think also what secretary clinton is so good at is understanding the various sources of our power and understanding that forces, one of them, but so is diplomacy, so are economic measures. so is the people. >> rose: you have been a friend of hers for a long time.

some say she is, there is some gap between where she is and where president obama is. that she has certain things that he did not do. she wanted him to do more in terms of supporting the moderate arab forces at the beginning. she was more in favor of and lead the charge with respect to libya. she is said to be more hawkish than is he. does any of that resonate with you? >> i think that there have been an evolving situation. president obama was elected to end the wars in iraq and afghanistan. i think that he and, the thing i admire both about president obama and secretary clinton and what you have to have in decision making is the capability to state your views and also if are you making the decision, to respect diverse views. and then make a decision. and i think they, as i have read, they weren't on the same wavelength on everything. but eliseened to her. she listened to him.

and i think the important part is that hillary understands that she wants people around that will present different perspectives. the situation has evolved a lot in terms of when they both took office. age i think that they will, hillary will make the considered judgements. and have people around her who she respects. and in fact be able to assess what tool to use. >> rose: when you look at the middle east and when you look at what happened with ice is and now you see isis claiming credit for lots of things, one way or the other, and we discover that some of the people who we thought were lone wolves have signed some dined of access and talk about some kind of allegiance to isis, have they changed their strategy in your judgement as to what their-- how they want to continue the attack on the west? >> they have a very different strategy than what we were used to whether in the sense that they weren't so determined to engage in the very highest

profile mass casualty attacks. they were more quantity over the quality of the attack. and they have urged their followers to engage in whatever viel ak they can using whatever instrumentalities they can and that makes it very hard to defend against. and of course they have had it in terms of wanting a caliphate now. >> rose: in fact john brennan has said we have not done very well in stopping that. >> well, we've done a better job in stopping the caliphate. >> rose: they acknowledge that but we haven't done as good a job as they would hope to do in terms of stopping the lone wfl and this penetration in terms of what we just saw. >> sthas' absolutely true. and part of that is because the idea logical fight is such a difficult one to do. and we are not very good at pushing back in the communication devices. the social media campaign. our government is lousy at

social media. >> rose: why is that true after. >> well,. >> rose: after an understanding of what social i think part of it is we havew discovered and maybe this should have been apparent earlier, we are not a credible messenger on this. we are not able to speak to what islam is or isn't. we have moved to where we're trying to empower other was do have scred ability thravment say far better way to go. but still we have seen there are people on the fringes of society both here, certainly around the world, alienated communities in europe that are very amenable to isis' message. some of those have serious mental health problems, on the fringes of the criminal justice system. and rooting that appeal out is a very tall order. so it's a challenge. >> i think one of the things that we have to do is to do intel sharing with our allies, which is why alliances are pornts. >> rose: on a bilateral basis, not with respect to the european union. >> really, by laterally i would say but i think also through nato, that there has to be more is intel sharing. we also have to recognize the

fact that we are dealing with a long-term problem that didn't start yesterdays. >> rose: you wouldn't have a problem with turkey knowing everything we would share with nato. >> i think it depends on the issue. and to the people. but we need to know more about what things are being thought about. i do think the europeans have to do better in terms of their own intel. and their policing. but i do think the other part, charlie, i think it is hart, is we want an instantaneous answer to this. this say problem that has been. >> generational. >> it is, we need to get muslims to help us because it is-- it is something that has to be done and we have to work very hard on the situation that is created the issue out of it. there are i think a very eye cron-- ironic issue taking place is we do better in controlling the size of the caliphate, they go somewhere else. >> rose: indeed. do you think calling them islamic extremists, the

president does not do that. do you think that those who do that in a sense aid the islamic call. >> i mean i know that it has become a is he man particular thing. i think they are extremists who have hijacked a religion am and i think we have to be careful not to blame all muslims for all the terrorists. >> rose: nobody is sayk that, they are saying these are extremists. >> there is what people indicate when they say-- why aren't you using the word. i think that we need to understand these are extremists who have hijacked a religion. and they are killers. >> rose: thank you for joining us. see you next time. >> for more about this program and earlier episodes visit us online at pbs.org and charlie rose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

within funding for charlie rose has been provided by the following: tom pbs news hour npr coverage of the democratic national convention continues as hillary clinton takes the

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