>> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by the following: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: we're in philadelphia for the fourth and final day of the democratic national convention. it is the night hillary clinton accepted the democratic nomination for president of the united states. and in so doing, she made history, we're taping this program shortly before chelsea

clinton introduces her mother in what will be for her mother the most significant speech of her life. >> there's something else that my mother taught me. public service is about service. (applause) and as her daughter, i have had a special window into how she serves. i've seen her holding the hands of mothers worried about how they'll feed their kids, worried about how they will get them the health care they need. i have seen my mother promising to do everything she could to help. i've seen her right after those conversations getting straight to work, figuring out what she could do, who she could call, how fast she could get results. she always feels like there isn't a moment to lose.

because she knows that for that mother, for that family, there isn't. people ask me all the time how does she do it? how does she keeping amid the sounds and the fury of politics? here's how. it's because she never, ever forgets who she's fighting for. (applause) she's worked to make it easier for foster kids to be adopted. for our 9/11 first responders to get the health care they deserve. for women around the world to be safe, to be treated with

dignity, and to have more opportunities. fights like these, they're what keep my mother going. they grab her heart and her conscience and they never, ever let go. >> rose: last night president obama gave a powerful speech which signaled a passing of the torch. joining me now is eric holder. he was attorney general under president obama from 2009 to 2015. i'm pleased to have him here, welcome. >> good to be here. >> you are doing what at the convention? >> i'm a person who give a speech a couple of nights ago. not on the same level of michelle's speech and the president's speech yesterday. mine was only about five minutes. i talked about voting rights and criminal justice reform. >> rose: how much is that going to be part of your life from now on out, the idea of being an advocate for criminal justice reform and big issues having to do with race? >> that's going to be an integral part of my life.

when i left the department of justice at pie going away ceremony at the white house, i said that although i was leaving the department of justice, i was fever going to leave the work. so i want to stay involved in the fight for the quality, to make sure that we reform our criminal justice system. that we protect the right to vote. and all the things that are connected to race that have, i think, so bedeviled us as a nation for so long. >> rose: we have to do i think, i've come to this from people like brian johnson and others, you know, a hardheaded look of what are the-- have we considered all of the impact of slavery on this country. >> uh-huh, i don't think we have. i think that when one looks at the question of slavery and in the period of time after slavery when i think you had slavery by another name, you look at the period of seg regraition, there are direct ties, government policies put in place in the 30st. social security didn't cover domestic workers, there have a whole variety of things that

still resonate in the slavery experience and those things that immediately followed. >> donna has also written about it, they are all asking the same thing. make sure we understand the concept. every speaker here and the republican convention also says two things. one, we have to do something about violence against young people and old people in terms of police committing acts of violence in the moment of whatever. we also have to make sure, and you have said this too, we have to understand, appreciate and make sure that no one allows violence against police take place. everybody is saying that. how do we go one step further and then the next step and then the next step and the next step? >> it's interesting. i think we have done that first step, which is to raise the issue. we need to protect the police while at the same time we ensure that law enforcement treats people they are supposed to serve with dignity and with respect. and there's not a tension between those two. but now the question becomes, how do we get to that next level am and i think there needs to be

some hardheaded conversations. there needs to be, if you look at the recommendationses from the 21s century police task force that its president put together, they are there are specific steps, 23, 24 steps. if you followed those, we could really move the ball in a ver significant way. but i also think that we have to understand that that whole relationship and the law enforcement community relationship can't be viewed in a micros could am. it's part of the larger society, the larger societial issues around race that we continue not to address. we're very adept at avoiding tough racial issues because they make us feel uneasy. it brings up a bad path. >> and then there is implicit bias which is. >> a huge part that has to be addressed in law enforcement. law enforcement officers can't look at somebody and make assumptions on the basis of how they look, and then act on that basis. that's simply something that we have to attack. >> rose: in terms of your ten ture at jus is, with do you

think you succeeded and where do you think you failed? >> well, i think that we advanced the ball when it came to civil rights enforcement. i came to a justice department that had a civil rights division that had been decimated. i look at what we did in trying to protect the right to vote, the fight for lgbt equality. i think we did a good job in moving terrorism changes into the article three courts. i don't think we did a good job when it came to getting gun control. you know, gun safety regulations in place. i think about my ten ture -- tenure, that is the one area where i think i could have made more progress. >> rose: i suspect the president would have said the same thing. the thing, that would be thedr cat list. vice president and i met with a whole range of gun groups. and but for the nra and maybe one other group, i think we could have reached a con sen shus but even then. >> rose: is that what has to happen, a con sen shus with the

nra? >> i don't think so. because i don't think they're ever going to come along. i think it's a question of whether or not we can get a spine injection in people in washington to do the things that their constituents want them to do which is to go against the gun lobby. >> rose: will this be a primary issue for hillary clinton. >> i think it's a defining part of her candidacy, something i'm most proud of when i associate myself with her. unlike other politicians, democrat and republican who have kind of fujed the issue out of concern you might alienate voters in particular states, she has said i'm for gun safety regulations. she talked about what she thinks needs to be legislated and that is in stark contrast to donald trump. i think it potentially gives her a mandate should she be elected. >> rose: she has a mandate to do something. >> yes, i think there is a mandate, an expectation and i think it could happen. >> rose: talk about history. we saw 12 years ago history made in 2008. this nomination's history in itself. >> yeah. >> rose: winning the general

election would be remarkable history. we have watched in eight years. >> yeah. >> rose: the possibility. >> uh-huh, yeah. it's-- i was born in 1951. and i lived through the civil rights movement. if you had told me in college, in law school my time early as a lawyer, maybe even, you know, the early 2 thousandst that i would serve under an african-american president and that after that, a woman could be president of the united states, i might have asked you to take a drug test, you know. >> rose: and then if i said they will both be lawyers. >> and here we are. and here we are. and that's something i think is important. we can never forget that this is a nation that has made great progress. we always, we have things to do. this is a great nation in spite of what donald trump says. we've made progress. and if we don't acknowledge that, we are doing a disservice to people who sacrifice, who worked hard, who put their lives on the line to make nights like this possible. >> rose: hillary clinton told

me last week that donald trump is dangerous for the future of the country. >> i think that's true. is he tempermentally unsuited to be president. there have been any number of disqualifiers i would think to his candidacy, the latest of which is his apparent invitation to the russians to show get involved in the hacking of a private citizen's, mails. the fact that he doesn't instinct allly-- . >> rose: that have been deleted from a server that was her private server. >> the fact that he has instinct allly or experience y'allly know there are collateral quenszs even to such a request in my perspective is frightening. that say good word to use, he would be a dangerous president. >> rose: is what he subbinged treasonous? >> i'm not sure about that. i think that is a league determination. i would have to know more about what it is he said. >> rose: can i remind you, you were the attorney general. >> when i was the attorney general, i would have had the fbi come to me and have a lot more stuff than that statement to make a determination.

but-- . >> rose: is it illegal in anyway? to say to another country, i want you to engage in an illegal act t is illegal to hack. >> it is illegal to hack. >> rose: i want you to engage in an illegal hack to a citizen of america, my country, who is running for president for political advantage that will benefit you, maybe. >> if he said exactly that, charlie, yeah, that might be illegal. i'm not sure he used those words or said it in that way. that is why again, his verb yaj would be important in making that legal determination. >> rose: you know this, would every american be alarmed if they knew how much hacking goes on? >> yes, yes. because there's a great deal of hacking that for a whole variety of reasons is not disclosed. because-- . >> rose: for what reasons. >> there are national security concerns. because it would tend to reveal sources and methods and the capabilities that we have in government to detect and to defend against hacking done by a variety of entities.

>> rose: we know they hacked john brennans phone. we know they hacked the personnel. we know they hacked sony. we know they hacked other private companies. we know that they have hacked the dnc. >> uh-huh. >> rose: do you believe it was the russians who hacked the dnc? >> i don't know. i really don't know. i'm not trying to avoid the question. i really don't know. >> rose: do you think there is a consensus of opinion. >> i think it's entirely possible. >> rose: we know it's possible. anybody, the north koreans are possible. >> i think it's possible that the russians were involved in it i wouldn't put it past them, their capability and experience. >> and their experience and that they would do something like that. putin who trump seems to have a bromance with for some reason, putin is a guy who would do something that for any other world leader would seem to be beyond the pail. >> rose: why do you say promans. >> he expressed admiration for

him, talked about a desire to work with him in areas where we are in stark contrast. claimed to vay meeting he had at one point that he-- . >> rose: would it strengthen putin if trump was elected. >> absolutely. trump questions the validity of the very things that have kept russia, theu ssr at bay for over half a century, nato. , among them. >> rose: but we think the chinese have been engaged in hacking. >> sure. >> rose: the president said north korea was engaged, sony. >> when i was attorney general we invited five chinese nationals for hacking for cyberattacks against american companies. >> rose: i assume we hack as well? >> we do not do anything in the commercial sphere. >> rose: everybody knows that. that is what involved the president in fact, that the government was doing it on behalf of commercial companies, correct? that was the charge with the chinese. >> yes. >> rose: and the chinese agreed to stop. >> right. >> rose: we don't do that. >> we don't do it. >> rose: but we do it for national security reasons, don't we. >> we have capacities we make

full use of. i will leff it at that. i'm not going to get in trouble with the justice department, not me. >> rose: you know what the line is. >> i do. i do. what is the next question, charlie? >> rose: i just want to say with this for a second. >> sure. >> rose: you also said donald trump, you question his gray matter. he's not smart enough to be president? >> yeah, i wonder. i sometimes think that he hides behind a certain bravado to hide a lack of substance that he has. a person this far along in the process, i think we would know a little more about what his plans are. we know more about who his mentors might have been. who his intellectual guides might be. and i don't have any sense that there is any of that to him. he seems to me to be a very shallow man. >> rose: and because you don't see any intellectual interest, you don't see anything a businessman. >> yeah. >> rose: whose value set is primarily, and he said this to a

degree, winning. >> yeah, winning. >> rose: but that's what he says america needs to do. america needs to win. >> sure. >> rose: win against the chinese, win against. >> guess what, charlie. we are winning. we are winning. we have the best me in the world, you know. our economy is the envy of every other economy in the world. but you know what, one of the other things that makes me doubt his intellectual heft is he sees d that is, that's the realm of people who aren't very smart. because the world really, the tough stuff is in the gray areas. that's where you have to del-of-and try to figure things out and he has shown no interest and i would say no capacity to definitely in and operate in those gray areas. >> rose: yet the poll she he bump from the convention in swing states that are crucial furks don't win the swing states, you will not win the president, he's even. >> i'm sorry. >> rose: he's even. despite everything you just said, dangerous, not smart

enough, one-dimensional. >> yeah. >> rose: he's even, go ahead. >> i think it's early to be looking at polls and making determinations. i saw a poll that saw him eight points behind in pennsylvania, another he was even in pennsylvania. i would say as always i would be looking in florida. if he can't win florida, the math for him just to me doesn't work. even if you win pennsylvania. if we win florida, it is pretty much over. >> rose: but do you assume for hillary to win she has to win, for secretary clinton to win she has to win ohio and florida. >> not necessarily. if you look at the electoral map from the last relech for president obama and say that is kind of what you would expect for hillary, there are a number of states that she could lose there and still be well above 270. >> rose: were you not attorney general, loretta lynch was attorney general when fbi director james comey released his judgement about the email investigation into hillary clinton. >> uh-huh. >> rose: he said she was careless. >> uh-huh. >> rose: she basically said he

clarified that. did he clarify that? >> as far as you know? >> i'm not sure. i think that in the hearing that they held the next day there was some clarity brought to some. things he had said the day before. >> rose: what was the clarity. >> one of the things is he said that there is conversation that had been clearly marked. i remember in response to the question he said there were just a couple of cst and there were to not headliners so it wasn't as strong the secretary day than the first. >> rose: but carelessness is not a presidential quality that we want to see. >> but human beings make mistakes and some of our best leaders, people who we revere made mistakes. abraham lincoln suspended habeas cor pus. >> that wasn't careless, he knew what he was doing. it was a mistake, certainly a policy mistake. >> and wrong. >> rose: and what she did was a mistake and wrong. >> yeah, it was a mistake and wrong and i think she acknowledged it was wrong. she apologized for it. you know, i made mistakes as attorney general. >> rose: i tried to get to you list them. >> let's not do that. we're talking about this

election. you know, we make mistakes. our leaders are human, we don't want them to make big mistakes, huge mistakes in areas that are consequently. and we look at their mistakes to see if we learn about them from those mistakes and how they handle those mistakes. >> rose: here you come with the russians. let's assume it may have been the russians. everybody seemed to raise that possibility it is a possibility. >> yeah. >> rose: cuz you suggested they hacked other places so they could have hacked here. >> yeah. >> rose: and therefore, that's one question. the other question, if they did, did they do it with intent to influence elections. but just going back to the fact that the russians an chinese and north koreans and others have the capacity to act, is it unreasonable to expect that some one might have hacked her server in her house? >> is that unreasonable? >> no, i don't think that it is something that one should expect that would have happened simply because it was not an official government server. >> rose: they know who she is.

>> yeah, i mean, but there are protections that can be built in. i don't know all about the system but you can build secure systems that don't exist. >> rose: i'm-- you as my hacking expert. >> and i'm not that. but i know in a private setting you can put up secure systems. i can't vouch for that system. >> rose: it is possible but nobody has any evidence that it happened. >> it's possible. vanced by the trump campampbus either, although they would like to have it. they would like to say there is. >> rose: what is it about president obama that most brings a sense of pride to you. let me suggest things, because are you close to him, dignity. >> uh-huh. >> rose: sense of a parent that everybody admires. that is why what she said i think resonated. because she spoke as a mother and the protection of children. and spoke about it in a way that you want to be able to entrust

your children. >> yeah. >> rose: to a place and a leadership. >> yeah. yeah, yeah. >> rose: and he interesting enough said he had to wear dark classes to sasha's graduation because he was balling, crying his heart out. >> yeah. why i admire him the most and why i'm going to miss him, he's an honorable guy. is he who you see him, the person you see is who he is. he's a little funnier than he is in public. but he's a person who although a politician and will take into the calculations, political things, ultimately always says what is the right thing to do. and has always done that. i remember during the campaign he was told he had to do something to hillary in the first run for the presidency. and he said, i remember it, he said if i have to do that, i don't want to be president. and i thought to myself this is why i am attracted to this guy. that the way he conducted

himself as president. >> rose: in terms of values, standards, and lines will not go beyond. >> there are rights and wrongs and there might be a political consequences for doing the right thing, but i'm going to do it never the less. that is why i think history will be kind to him, very kind to him. >> rose: well, an interesting thing in america today, you know there is talk about her really running as a third term for barack obama. she will run as her own and make her case later, we're taping this at 8:00, 9:00. but it's interesting to me and i don't understand this. the wrong track poll, this country is on the wrong track is high. yet he's having polls that are above 50%. >> yeah, yeah. i don't understand that. you know by all of the normal ould be saying that we are in a pretty good place and especially if you consider this country as opposed to other nations around the world. and yet those wrong track ratings are exactly what you say. i think a part of that has to do

with the campaign. and the drum beat that people are fed on a constant basis by republicans, about how bad things are when in fact there are pockets of problems. there are issues that we still have. >> rose: when you say that, obviously there the is in this convention a sense of optimism about america, believing in america. yet when i want to ask him, what could make your belief not come true, strongest military, strongest economy, highest level of technology and-- about the future. he said our politics. that's what could stop us. >> yeah. >> rose. >> we have a disfunctional system in washington d.c. right now and that gums up so much. so much where we could make progress, with regard to infrastructure, education, a whole variety. >> rose: researchness, a whole variety of things that you need the government to be involved in. bill clinton famously said that the era of big government was over.

i would say that got government, the need for good government will ensure-- endure. government is not an evil thing, if done appropriate. >> rose: ronald reagan was wrong when he said government is not the solution, government was the problem. >> i think he has was 100 percent wrong. >> rose: bill clinton has said government, the era of big government was over, that was at the time of newt gingrich and the contract with america and those kind of things. >> we have always said we are a center right country. i think because of demographic reasons, because of the failure of some conservative policies that we are seeing a shift in this nation as a whole is moving to the left. >> rose: what does it mean, moving to the left in terms of its sense of the role of government. >> yeah. i think in terms of its sense of government, what it wants government to do. policies that people want in place. i think conservative things that have reined supreme for the last 30, 40 years are being challenged, questioned. >> rose: you know what else is debate, whether we want to be

open or closed too. having to do with what america has been about. an openness to the rest of the world or do we want to close down. >> and that's a fundamental question. z and it is one that has always been answered in the past saying we want to be open to the world. that's how we renew ourselves, a competitive advantage we have by being a diverse nation, by bringing the best of our nations into our country. >> but it does appeal to some people because they are hurting and worried about their economic security and worried about not having the life for their children that they had even. >> this is a period of economic transition that we are going through. we are going from an industrial society where we had lots of people who would be on a factory line and made cars and refrigerators and things like that and now robots are doing them. we have all kinds of artificial intelligence doing things that could not be done before. this is a wrenching economic time for us. but-- . >> a time for leadership. >> yeah. and also a time for optimistic. because we'll get through this.

>> we have more questions about hack canning i call you? >> absolutely. >> thank you for coming. all right, eric holder, former attorney general of the united states. back in a moment. stay with us. >> rose: we continue with marq las ree a top dem kraltic donor, close friend of the clinton family, supporter of barack obama and hawkly successful wall street hedge fund man. he has been involved in democratic politics and comes here this evening, i assume to watch hillary clinton's acceptance of the nomination. what does it mean to you? >> i think it's great. i have three girls. my daughter is actually nine months pregnant, is due any day. and she decided to come here. and it is a big deal for women. and i think for me, i have known hillary a long time and i think it's something phenomenal. >> rose: when did you first meet the clinton family. because are you very close to the former president as well.

>> i met them when he was in the white house. i think we were friendly. and then after he left office, we ended up becoming much closer. >> rose: yeah. >> take someone like you, mark, who i know and you are a friend of mine as well, you support political candidates. you bundle money for them. >> yup. >> why do you do it? >> i think part of it is i believe in it. i wasn't born here. i was born outside the united states. i was born in morocco. for me the ability to end up being voferred in politics, the ability to help democratic causes, because i think it ends up helping people like me when you first come to this country. i think you have an obligation. you should be giving back. and it's something that i want to do. >> rose: donald trump says people like you give money because they want something. >> i know that. i also think donald truch would say that people like me shouldn't be allowed into this country. coming from morocco. but i think at the end of the

day, people do things for various reasons. the reason i'm doing it is at the end of the day, i do believe in the cause. i believe that hillary will end up being a great president. so i would like to do everything i can to help that. other people will also. >> rose: during the, you supported strongly president obama. >> yes. >> you believed in him. >> yes. >> rose: what is your assessment of how well he has done over the last eight years. >> i think he has done a really rose: you're a businessman. >> yeah. you look at the market, right. so from when he came into office to where the market is, it's reaching record highs. if you look at the economy, the economy is doing substantially better. >> rose: but there are concerns about the economy and that's the reason the fed hasn't raised interest rates and other indicia of that. >> we haven't gone into a recession. so when things are going fine, everybody wants them to go better. when things are going well, everybody wants them to go great. but if you look at from where we are, to where we are today, i'm very happy at the job that he

has done, would i like to have had less regulation in the financial sector? sure. >> rose: but you can live with it. >> you can live with it and that's exactly it. >> rose: and it came out of the congress primarily, dodd-frank which you supported. >> i did. but at the end of the day i think the pend lum swung too far. i think there is too much regulation on the banks. i think there are less loans made to people who need the loans. >> rose: there is a con sen shus the democratic party is moving left shall late-- i mean moving left. >> late and left. >> rose: are you okay with that in terms of your own, what you expect and would like to see to a party you contribute to? >> i would like the party to be more to the center. >> rose: what bill clinton is or was. >> exactly it i understand why it's moving a little bit left. >> rose: because the needs are different. >> the needs are different for the country. but at the end of the day for the majority of americans, i think it's still to the best to always be in the middle and try

to have those compromises. i don't know if you will be able to do that. >> rose: political people tell me including those that you know who are, some who supported and worked for barack obama now work for hillary clinton, say to me when you look at this election, it's sort of 45 to hear, people here, 45% one candidate, the republican candidate. >> yeah. >> rose: and 45% support the democratic candidate and in between there is about nine to ten percent of people who haven't made up their mind who are independent, and not affiliated either way. >> i agree. >> rose: that is where the election will be decided. >> it always is. and i would think that somebody who is independent and somebody who is reasonable and logical, that person is going to end up ting for hillary. when you sort of see the different things that donald trump has done. so you would hope that independents would tilt that way. >> rose: business people feel, how do they feel about this election? i know that say broad brush and i realize that. but i read something the other day which said like the

business, are you an invest part, they are the people, general electric and big company that make things, the other people in the manufacturing business. i'm thinking about the business round table and people like that. >> right. >> rose: and the chamber of commerce is not supporting donald trump, that say trade issue. >> it. is but i think they would rather have hillary. what business wants is stability. they want transparns aye. they want to know what is happening. >> rose: so they can make decisions based on expectations. >> and that's absolutely correct. you may not agree with everything hillary does but will you know where she stands. the problem with donald from the business side is you don't really know where he stands. you don't know what he is going to do and every day it is a different thing. and that freaks people out. >> rose: you are a constituent of hers hen she was a senator. were you a constituent when she was senator. >> yes. llary is exceptionally bright and will listen to what you have

got to say and take it under consideration. so the goal here i think for everybody is that at the end of the day you have got a president who is willing to listen and will try to always do the right thing. >> rose: is she different-- how is she different from her husband as a politician? >> i don't think she is as good a politician. i think bill clinton is in a class by myself. >> rose: she has said that. >> it's true. it's just not her. she loves the policy part. she is exceptionally bright, understands the issue and is willing to work those issues far, far harder. i think president clinton was different in the sense that he would try to do everything all at once. and loved being with people. so it's a very different mix. >> rose: what does she need to do in your jujt to appeal to your friends who have, wherever they may be, reservations about her, having to do with trust, having to do with changing

positions on trade, for example. >> i think what she has got to do is be true to herself. at the end of the day there is nothing wrong with saying what you believe and saying look, i disagree with you. here is what we are going to do. i think the issue that everybody has with hillary is they're trying to figure her out. and i don't think it's that complicated. i think she will explain what she wants to do. and i think if people listen hard, they will figure that out. so you know to me when i talk to her, it's much more, just tell everybody what you want to do if they don't agree, it's fine. not everybody has to agree with you. but if you believe in it, you untry.k is best for thisu what >> in this line of conversation, quiing, factor in bar barack obama. how is he different as a politician from her and from president clinton? >> i think president clinton loves the politics. i think both are very cerebral.

and both are exceptionally bright but one loves the politics of being out there. whereas i think president obama views that more as that is what i need to do. whereas i think president clinton loves that part of what he used to do. >> rose: he loves being out there. >> he loves being out there. he will never be early to any event because he is always late, he's always there and will stay. because he just loves g to people. wants to always hear somebody's story. >> rose: you contributed to the clinton foundation. >> yeah. >> rose: some people worry there may be something there and that some people are going to really focus on everything they can find out meaning whether there was some give and take, some cause and affect, some. >> look, i think they should. there was no give and take. i gave to the foundation because i believed in what the foundation was doing. and at the end of the day, people gave because they believed in it. and they gave because they

believed in what president clinton was doing. the foundation did nothing wrong. and i think there is always sort of these questions. and at the end of the day, what the foundation was doing was helping millions and millions of people am i'm proud that i gave to the foundation. >> rose: in terms of the trust factor, how does she change that? she knows that is an issue for her. >> who knows, i really don't. i think people who know her absolutely trust her and have a huge amount of faith. i don't know if it's because she's been around for awhile and there's been always all these negative attacks. >> rose: some argue, there was a story today or yesterday, one of the papers that said it goes back to, yeah back when and that she became very, very protective and very, very. >> i think she. is i think she is a little more protective. >> she got to washington and the whitewater investigation

started. >> everybody has been attacking her since she came to washington. i think it's hard. i think people who know her will 's difficult i think for a lot of people without don't know her to end up trusting her. hopefully as people get to know her they will trust her more. >> rose: tell me what you think she will do for the economy. >> look, i think at the end of the day what she will do is try to help small businesses. >> rose: provide the jobs. >> because that's who is going to re-create and get this economy going and growing the three, four, five percent. making small business loans. and helping out people who need that. i think that's what she is going to end up doing. the other thing that should help this economy greatly is reduce student loans from 9% to two percent or 1 percent. why are people still paying nine percent when the u.s. government is borrowing at 1 percent. >> rose: what else? >> those two things are huge. >> rose: what about trade. because people thought that she would be-- nafta was a strong

component of president clinton's term in office. >> it was. >> rose: he and bob ruben believed in that. >> right. >> rose: to look at nafta and say was that a good idea, was it not a good idea. they look at the tcp and she even raises questions about it, even though she had been supporting it. >> i know. >> rose: where is she on trade. >> i think she's got to be protrade. you love in-- . >> rose: you have to be protrade. >> i think you do. because you live in an interconnected world and to make believe that we don't as a country is just wrong. >> rose: you can't be in isolation. >> you can't. >> rose: and if are you in isolation you will not lead. >> you won't lead and i think what the u.s. has a moral responsibility to lead. i think that's really the question that is out there. are we supposed to be that shining light. and i think we are. and for everybody who wants to come live here in the united states. and what i always find amazing is people who are in the united states complain about living here. and everybody else is dieing to get into this country. and there seems to be a huge disconnect with that.

but look, we have to end up being part of this world. and us pulling out which is what donald trump wants to do, just isn't going to work. i think we need to do a better job and hopefully that will end up happening. >> rose: why did you want to come to the country and how did you come. was it your father. >> it was my mother actually. my mother was a school teacher and my mother felt that we had to leave morocco but if we wanted to get a good education and we wanted to succeed. >> rose: you go to america. >> you go to america. and it took years to end up, i became a naturalized citizen when i was 13. every foreigner is dieing to come here. if you won the lot rearranged were born in the united states, it's great. but if you are not, you try to come here. this is the only country i could is done what i did. think about it, somebody without came to this country ends up working and becoming friends with somebody who was the ex-president of the united states, i don't think that is something you could have done in another country. >> rose: and managing billions

of dollars as well. >> yeah and owning a basketball team who would have thought. >> rose: milwaukee buks. >> that's right. >> rose: was that a dream of yours. >> it really was. i played in college. i think everybody always says i would love to own a basketball team. >> rose: how about the knicks. >> that was never going to happen. he was never going to sell that. i would have loved to but that was never going to happen. >> rose: is it because you played that you wanted to own a feel. >> i played. i loved basketbal i it was a prl experience. i was involved in it my whole life. and then when hi the opportunity to buy the milwaukee buks, ended up doing that about two years ago. >> rose: so you go back and forth to mill walkee or watch on television. >> go back, go to the games. my son works in milwaukee. he's actually here, a delegate for the state of wisconsin. back to hilary in terms of the trust element and what kind of cabinet do you think she would have formed. >> that sn a interesting question. i think you will find a pretty

diverse cabinet. i think it will enup being people who are very, very good at their job, right. they're not political appointees, that they end up being people who really are going to be able to make change and fix things which is part of the problem this country ha right now. and be able to lead. >> rose: what is part of the problem. >> that you need to be able to fix things and turn things around. and sort of have people who are going to be able to do that. >> rose: would you like to serve in the government? >> i think everybody would love to serve. i don't think i could. mainly because with the job that i have, i want to continue doing that. >> rose: yeah. when she is on stage tonight, it is the passing of a torch. >> yes t is. >> rose: from the first african-american president to the first woman nominated to be president. >> yeah. >> rose: and perhaps president. a great country. >> it is a phenomenal country that you could end up seeing

that, i wanted to be part of history that is country wanted to come. >> rose: thank you for coming here. >> always a pleasure. >> marc lasry, thank you. we'll be right back. we conclude with democratic political strategist james carville and kelie ann conway, thank you both for coming. the republican democrat, has this been a good convention for democrats? >> it's been a decent convention for democrats. the reason i say that, it started out so rocky with the dnc. >> rose: that was one day of worrying about. >> and the next day with the bernie sangers protestors. i done think it is the convention hillary clinton thought she would walk into particularly since she has been the presump tifer nominee for% eight years since she last lost last time. >> there has been a lot of the strongest voiseses and some of the best orders in the democratic part have already spoken. and the crowd was very enthused. we'll see if it moves any independent or undecided voters long-term.

but it has been a good convention for them in that hillary clinton enters this week with really tough headwinds in terms of two thirds of americans say they don't find her to be honest or trust worthy. >> rose: donald trump too. >> very different reasons. >> she tried in the swing state polls-- i think this came at a good time for her and we'll see how she makes her case tonight. >> honestly, it is the best democratic convention i have ever seen. the quality. speeches. >> rose: better than 92y. >> i hate to say that. i hate to say that. >> rose: 29 was great, i what is there. >> the campaign manager for the winning candidate. >> the quality of the speeches, i mean and the graph i task of the speakers, it is just been amazing, the whole convention. if hillary clinton gives the fifth best speech at a convention tonight t will be a great speech. >> that is one way to lower expectations. >> i'm not lowering, i think she will give a great speech. you don't, are you set up to

succeed. whoever really gave a bad acceptance speech. i mean sarah palin, we were talking on the set before. >> rose: we were rating. >> i said sarah palin 2012. if you look at what it did, if we remember john mccain actually went ahead after the republican convention, i mean it doesn't-- i think this has been the dwawlt of the speeches has been literal lebreathe taking. it say little bit of a gig but it is the difference between mer ill streep and scott bay yo. >> if that is the bar, wow. >> in other words. >> many of us are struck by conspicuous by its absencement you don't hear a lot about freedom. you don't hear a lot about-- . >> rose: john all sen speeblging tonight. >> if we can pick one or two out there of. i have seen the excerptsk i'm sure you have, charlie. and i'm struck by her talking directly to coal country.

she needs to do that but it is a defensive tactic. earlier she went to west virginia why and promised that she would put the quoal industry out of work that is a little defense that they will take that krenlt and travel it right through ohio, pennsylvania, indiana, illinois, through the rust belt where a lot of steel workers, coal minors and folks who appreciate those industries and hardworking men and women were offended. >> lookings i'm i am not going to fight over west virginia. >> what about putting industries out of business. >> i think this party is united. i mean i'm looking at the tweets from republicans from rich howly to eric erickson. >> erickson said this is-- they were-- this parties is really

united coming out of here. and you just hard-- . >> rose: her point is a valid one. there is economic disconnt. and donald trump will try to take democrats, what used to be called reagan democrats and get them on an economic arc to come over to his side and will tell them trade has hurt you. immigration has hurt you. >> he will get most of the reagan democrats. he will do well if he will do well, will do better than mccain or romney did with noncollege whites. he may not win college whites. he may be the first republican candidate in the history of polling to lose that demographic. >> or not. >> and they're getting. >> it is a socially undesirable to say they are voting for trump but if he stays even with hillary clinton they will stay free to say i think this guy could win so i can come out and say. people are looking for a reason to vote for trump, an excuse to vote against her. but if the polls stay tight and she doesn't look like the

prohintive winner, 28% chance hillary would win to 57% earlier this week that trump would win that is a remarkable turn around. >> what did you think about-- i will come back to that foreign policy. let me say, what is the basic argument between on economic issues, having to do with the welfare of the middle class between donald trump and hillary clinton? >> sferl things. so if you listen some of the speeches, i just listened to a woman from ohio saying how she an her husband work three jobs, hardly see each other, kids are asleep when you get home that is the kind of speech you expect at an anti-incumbent where are you not asking for four more years of the economic malaise that that woman is identifying. so what trump's message is and talks it to the middle classics hile, the cost of living isin up, every day affordability. the mistake the romneys and mccains make in the past is jobs, jobs, jobs.

you got to talk about the job holders, not the job seekers or creators. they are saying we have jobs but they're not secure an we're so white-knuckled at the end of the month. >> rose: and look at the nonttp here. these are potential trump voters saying no ttp. >> will is a very distinct difference. donald trump thinks he can yank the country back to some day we had 20 years ago. hillary clinton are, barack obama, bill clinton, joe biden, tim kaine believe that you can forge a better future for the country. i think his message to people is there was something that you had and we can go back and grab that. that is his slogan. i didn't make it up, this make america great again. that's the difference in this election. that we want to yank ourselves back to something that in our minds we had, i think you're going to hear a lot of that tonight. you heard a lot of that from president obama. you heard a lot of that from

coming from this podium and i think it's been a very affective convention in that sense. can i argue about a family-- . >> rose: here is what is interesting to me. a lot of this choice seems to be the other person is so bad you got to-- i'm the least best choice. >> i haven't heard that up here. people have-- i lessened to it. i listened to a lot of it. donald trump, they have been attacking him, every speaker, almost unfit to be president. so no one has attacked john kerry in 2004. >> we're not talking about 2004. >> we're talking about. >> 200 million is-- . >> rose: at the republican convention you heard the worst things said about hillary clinton, rudy giuliani, i mean the indictment of hillary clinton and the core, put her in prison. >> that is not my cup of tea by the way at all but i will say, if this is-- if this comes down to clear choices, do you want

the kind of change that bill clinton and james carville won, they are trying to make hillary the change maker and nobody believes that it is inauthentic. her best argument is steady is ready. >> rose: you weren't convinced by her husband that she has been making change all her life. >> where are the results. the problem is saying she has been fighting for women and children in 30 years f you have millions in poverty, the wage stagnation, your own speaker at the democratic national convention going out and saying i have three jobs and can't make ends meet where is the product. where is the success of hillry clinton having fought. >> i guess i'm not surprised that kellyann is not impressed by the democratic argument. >> well, will where is it. >> i'm surprised that politics breaks out of the political convention. the idea they are saying not nice things about the opponent, i mean that's what these things do. >> rose: there is no difference in the level of attack. >> there is. >> and it's not working. what is different is trump is not responding. >> they will filibuster here it

on the charlie rose show. i think what you have seen here is a constant level of accomplished people talking about how we can forge a better future in this country, in about how hillary clinton does that. i think what you heard in cleveland is a lot of c plus people talking about yanking america back to a better day, of making a country that in their mind used to exist. and this train is moving forward. when this train leaves philadelphia, it is going toward the future. >> rose: what kind of bump do you think will come out of this convention. >> i think we will do well. i don't know if there is an expectation and somebody else will say this. i think we have had a very, very effective convention. i honestly deep down inside, i am very optimistic about this cycle. i think the big question is republicans. there are so many of them, this will be a daddy wa, did you do in the war. were you a trump or did you go with the george wills of the world or the pliek el bloombergs of the world.

did you go with people that stood up to him. i think that's been sadz for people like that. >> rose: ted cruz. >> ted cruz, this is a distant. >> why are the polls exactly tied in fact trump is ahead. look, what is different this cycle is you don't have parody in terms of the number of ads and ad expenditures by the two campaigns, that is really remarkable. you have had tens, hundreds of millions spent against donald trump, touching wood, and people are becoming impervious to it it san important point because elections are about the future, not the past but hillary clinton represents the pastment i don't think the independent voters are buying it. >> rose: isn't she talking about future issues. >> like what. where are the specifics. >> are you going to argue specifics. >> that is a central indictment and central question that has been raised about. >> look at the ten point-- veterans administration reform plan, ten pointsk people may disagree with it but you can look at it and see if that is a

good plan for the future rdz why is the chamber of commerce. >> because he's not their hand picked candidate. they had five others a heads of him. there is a lot of high horse sank moan in the republican party. >> there is plenty of high horse sank ti mondayee. >> but it's true and the american. >> i like that. >> you can have it, james. >> but i will tell you, and it's a serious issue because in the past, the cor rosive word of the republican party has been elect able. he can win, he can't win. democrats never subscribe to that they elevate and elect people like bill clinton, barack obama, everybody says they can't win, they run and they win. it is our turn to do that. >> rose: the electoral map-- for hillary clinton, including the sort of demographics of the ascendancy as they say. >> look, i wrote a book, i think that the democratic coalition ascend. i thought that for some time.

but the other miss nom certificate we're an equally divided country. there are actually more democrats than republicans and i think if we're going to come out of here tonight with a united democratic party, and they don't have the united party, i mean it may be a high horse sank mondayee or whatever you want to call it, but they are not a happy lot. >> again, i mean i don't know how you can-- inside the hall it may feel united but outside the hall, there are protestors all week. >> every democrat showed up. there was nobody missing. >> al gore is not here, jimmy cart certificate not here. >> the central thing is, is one candidate says i'm going to make america great again, it is implied message is that he is going to yank the country back. another candidate is talking about how we forge a better future, how we're stronger together. i just see that as just, i'm glad we are where we are. i like our message. >> rose: here's the question. will donald trump appeal to

suburban america, number one. number two, can he make the appeal to college educated white men, three. can he get even approach the number of latinos that george bush did? >> so, he will appeal to-- suburban moms right now because of the security agenda. they are very concerned certainly about national security, a great deal of angst but also all the crime and drugs, random violence, opiate use. >> rose: that overcome history. >> and they overcome i think what people preseum women care about most. so called women's issues. 28 years of doing this, i never once heard the term men's issues. someone just assume all issues are men's issue. we're making the point all issues are women's womens. >> your question about hispanics, when george w. bush got 40% of hispanics, he was an incumbent, he had a weak opponent in john kerry. we think hillary clinton is a

more for middable o upon ant that john kerry. will donald trump do more moorely that are am-- romney. these are not scweekers, if he could actually outperform mitt romney on some of the demographics, but also donald trump is making inroads not just with demographics but situational voters talking directly to the people without feel they have been left behind, the for gotten man, woman, i am your voice. people are struggling. we had the speakers at the democratic convention giving voice to that. >> rose: last question, is this election a question of a referendum on the two candidates, a referendum on the future or a referendum on america. >> again, i think that as i pointed out a number of times, five percent of this, 20% of that, one candidate is talking about tomorrow, one candidate talking about yesterday. i think, and one party is united. one party is divided.

i like where my party and candidate are. >> the media are focused on this say referendum on done all trump. she is the one who-- . >> rose: a referendum on the two candidates rather than a referendum on a an issue or b change. >> well, it's always a referendum on change. it's always do you want, i think the clinton camp is trying to make you feel nervous about the risky walk into the dark where you don't know what the risk will be. but the question is do you want four more, the question is or do you feel safing safer than 81% of americans and don't feel safer. >> thank you, james. thank you for joining us. see you next time. for more about this program and earlier episodes visit us online at pbs.org and charlie rose.com.

captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and of multimedia news and information services worldwide.

man: it's like holy mother of comfort food.ion. kastner: throw it down. it's noodle crack. patel: you have to be ready for the heart attack on a platter. crowell: okay, i'm the bacon guy. man: oh, i just did a jig every time i dipped into it. man #2: it just completely blew my mind. woman: it felt like i had a mouthful of raw vegetables and dry dough. sbrocco: oh, please. i want the dessert first! [ laughs ] i told him he had to wait.